Open 279 - Rusty Guillotine Mafia - Game Over!

VP Baltar · Sat Mar 26, 2011 1:07 am

RC wrote:I think it's much more likely that VPB is scum and Fate is town rather than the other way around. VPB is lazy and unresponsive. He's trying to coast to the end of the day. Fate is actively challenging me and you.

Trust me, I've been reading and putting effort in. I'm just simply not going to get into a wall war with you. This is because 1) that type of play is generally useless and kills town motivation (which is something we desperately need more of in this game) and 2) almost nothing you've said actually makes sense with the facts with the game. Whether you're scum or your just that confused of a townie, it's not worth my time and effort. Call it what you will, I'm doing the game a service by not indulging your poorly crafted case.

RC wrote:VPB > Fate > I don't know, I guess Jarti would be next.

And I'm the lazy one. You're so invested in your shit tunnel you don't even have a good idea of who you think is suspicious outside of it.

re: LL wagon - I could maybe see the merits of it. SD looks very likely scum here, so RC being first on that wagon and SD now adding steam to the RC wagon in his death throes gives me pause enough to

Unvote

I don't like that we have to wait for replacements right now because we probably should be prodding in the pool of Jarti, Concission and crypto to see if anything stirs there. The latter two have felt very town to me on playstyle, but I could be reading the situation wrong.

@AGM - give me the high notes of why you think LL today.

VP Baltar · Sat Mar 26, 2011 3:41 am

Why should you lurk? Prove me wrong if you're town and show it. I can only judge you based upon your behavior in thread.

VP Baltar · Sat Mar 26, 2011 4:32 am

hi maemuki

VP Baltar · Sun Mar 27, 2011 1:25 am

@RC - I'm not going to go point for point with you because 1) there is a very decent chance you're scum here and I'm not going to convince you I'm town if you're scum and 2) this game is already very long and needs replacements so there is no point in making it harder to catch up than it already will be. 3) you are legitimately trying to make the argument that both Fate and I are scum, which is so far beyond ridiculous it becomes impossible for me to take you seriously.

What we really need at this point is SD's alignment to be known. That's essentially the only way this game is going to advance past the current state it's in. We can make educated guesses about today's lynch, but those are mostly guesses until we get some facts via mod confirmation.

VP Baltar · Mon Mar 28, 2011 12:37 am

Unvote, Vote: AGM

Fuck it. Zoraster is right. AGM has been scummy all game and I shouldn't immediately discount him just because SD could be scum. Fate, get on board with this lynch.

VP Baltar · Mon Mar 28, 2011 1:19 am

Mae, fate is town and today is deadline. I don't think it's a good day for spite voting because he's being pushy.

VP Baltar · Mon Mar 28, 2011 4:06 am

LuckayLuck wrote:
VP Baltar wrote:
Unvote, Vote: AGM

Fuck it. Zoraster is right. AGM has been scummy all game and I shouldn't immediately discount him just because SD could be scum. Fate, get on board with this lynch.
Given how "likely" it is that Shadow Dancer is scum, this isn't a reasonable lynch today.

It's a reasonable lynch tomorrow if Shadow Dancer isn't scum, and we'll know that tomorrow; if he is scum, we'll have lynched one of the worst people to lynch today.

I don't agree. It's very possible they could both be scum. It makes sense regarding why both of them evaded the hammer simultaneously for so long.

VP Baltar · Mon Mar 28, 2011 4:37 am

yeah, seriously LL. Get your vote off of Fate before I start disliking you.

VP Baltar · Mon Mar 28, 2011 5:04 am

Unvote, Vote: RC

much better than a fate lynch. One of you mopes better get on this lynch or I am going to be royally pissed tomorrow.

VP Baltar · Mon Mar 28, 2011 5:12 am

I completely understand mae. I don't think it's really fair that there hasn't been a deadline extension, but what can we do really. I just know Fate's not scum. I'd prefer the AGM or VV lynch today, but I'd take RC dead over Fate any day of the week. We'll have to vote accordingly.

VP Baltar · Mon Mar 28, 2011 7:51 am

I'll be around to deadline. if my vote is needed. We're not lynching Fate though.

VP Baltar · Wed Mar 30, 2011 11:52 am

Fate's still town. RC's probably dumb town. VV needs to die today. and etc.

VP Baltar · Wed Mar 30, 2011 1:31 pm

oh hell yes, we're not lynching fate today or ever. Get over it.

VP Baltar · Wed Mar 30, 2011 2:05 pm

RC wrote:Now look at the Fate wagon. Every person on the Fate wagon has provided reasoning for being there. I've wanted this lynch since yesterday. AGM has wanted this lynch all day. VV has wanted this lynch all day. LL, fairly, has not, but he recently came to the conclusion after seriously weighing the options.

Compare this to the wagon on me if you have the time, zora & Mae. See which of the people voting me have weighed the options. See which of the people voting me have been interested in my lynch for earnest reasons. I guarantee you you won't find much. There's clearly a disconnect between the wagons. There's a disconnect because the scum are fighting with every bone in their body to get me lynched today.

You really must think you're playing a noob game here or something. This is seriously one of the worst arguments I've seen you make all game. So you're saying that the scum are too lazy to make a case on you but they are "fighting with every bone in their body to get me lynched today." Honestly, RC, people are calling you scum because you've been saying dumb shit like this all game. I will give you a clue: lots of words =/= town. If you make zero sense, I don't care how many cases you write because it's not going to be persuasive.

RC wrote:Nice work, Fate. You gamed your way out of a for sure scum lynch with two perfectly times replacements.

lmao. Way to go Fate. Nice job with the replacements. *whisper* *whisper*

SD wrote:O_o VV looks really worse now.

^Distancing

SD wrote:And his voting behaviour draws a strong connection to RC scum.

^WIFOM to get us to lynch dumb RC.

VV wrote:
SD wrote: O_o VV looks really worse now.
For what? I don't care if you're dead in 2 hours, if your answer is "for all that bullshit the person who hasn't read the game was saying!", just go crawl back into your guillotine.

Imma make the angry face now so they don't think we're buddies.

VV wrote:So why is everything I do suddenly scummy? Is it perhaps because you need a reason to suspect me when SD flips town? And I honestly don't get what sort of connection you're seeing between me and SD. I'm pretty sure that I could have AT ANY POINT near the day 3 deadline voted for AGM and gotten him lynched over SD. If SD is scum, you're saying I threw away a mislynch for town-cred I wouldn't even get until 2 days later because of delayed flips!

Terrible attempt to explain away inevitable SD connection.

SD wrote:OK... I can compromise... Conc lynch is still meh... But so much better than a definite Fate mislynch.

Unvote. Vote Conc

Well, we can rest assured Concission will flip town. That bothers me about Fate a touch

Though I really don't see why Fate scum would start calling SD town at the 11th hour. That doesn't make much sense.

VP Baltar · Wed Mar 30, 2011 2:19 pm

no, Fate is town. He had no purpose to call SD town late yesterday. I actually think you're scummy for pushing his lynch Luckay. You are looking for easy blood in the water. VV looks much worse.

VP Baltar · Wed Mar 30, 2011 2:23 pm

Hi, Equinox. It's good to have someone rational in the game. I think VV is scum based on SD's flip. I'm not sure about the third person, so if you could help me with that I would <3 you forever.

VP Baltar · Wed Mar 30, 2011 2:54 pm

he was a part of that weird lynch for sure, but I don't think the blame falls squarely at Fate's feet. I can see the argument for it, hence why I pointed it out already. That being said, Fate isn't exactly the type of dude to stick his neck out for a scum buddy. So, he's either gaming his meta here or he's town. I need to think about it. I still think VV is scum regardless.

VP Baltar · Thu Mar 31, 2011 12:37 am

how could hammering your scumbuddy for cred possibly be scummy. you are so right RC.

VP Baltar · Fri Apr 01, 2011 12:08 am

Vote: VV

I'm still not entirely sold on the Fate thing. I am however convinced that SD and VV made a terrible attempt to wifom away from each other yesterday in the dying hours.

VP Baltar · Fri Apr 01, 2011 8:05 am

Crypto does kind of make sense as scum. He'd probably be happy to let VP-Fate vs. AGM-RC play out if we're all town. It may be time to call a truce and lynch VV/Crypto scum team.

VP Baltar · Fri Apr 01, 2011 3:05 pm

Here's a note of meta....Fate is actually really terrible at 'talking the talk' when he's scum. He just can't fake it well from what I've seen. That's why I think he's town. LL, what do you think of VV/crypto scum team?

VP Baltar · Sat Apr 02, 2011 2:10 am

VV wrote:1. Concission/Equinox is probably scum.

yeah...um, no. Very fine with my vote where it is.

VP Baltar · Sat Apr 02, 2011 2:47 am

I read part of your post. I will probably give it another go later when I've had coffee and don't feel like killing myself while reading it. The reason I disagree with it is because IT MAKES LESS THAN ZERO SENSE FOR SD TO WANT TO LYNCH HER SCUMBUDDY AT THE LAST MINUTE.

I don't care how many words you write. You're not going to convince me that even a noob with zero games on site would make that play. This is why you're scum.

VP Baltar · Sat Apr 02, 2011 3:00 am

Why, what does SD gain from bussing concission moments before dying? I don't even get why I'm arguing this because your post doesn't even make a coherent argument for that. If you're arguing Concission is town and it was an effort to save Fate-scum, sure I can see what you're saying. Implying concission is scum is completely illogical.

VP Baltar · Sat Apr 02, 2011 3:22 am

Yeah, but most people had a concission town read while Fate has been knock knock knocking on heaven's door for awhile now. It doesn't make sense for SD to bus there imo.

I mean, I hope you're right because that would be a terrible scum blunder that benefits us, but I just don't see it.

VP Baltar · Sun Apr 03, 2011 11:47 am

this is ridiculous guys. You don't need to make gigantic wall posts, just get in here and discuss.

VP Baltar · Sun Apr 03, 2011 11:48 am

If you're town and lurking because you're lazy, you're just handing the game to the scum. fyi

VP Baltar · Mon Apr 04, 2011 10:25 am

I'm so glad I'm in this game.

VP Baltar · Mon Apr 04, 2011 10:45 am

Honestly, if it would get people to shut up about Fate is scum and it was earlier in the game, I'd probably hammer you. But I don't think we can afford that right now. I am waiting for Equinox to contribute so we can move forward with the game state.

Also, see you in the QT. *whisper whisper*

VP Baltar · Wed Apr 06, 2011 12:40 am

Equinox - where are you in your catchup? Usually you're a pretty hard working town, so I'm pretty anxious to hear from you. Any idea on completion date?

@RC - What we need to do is calculate out exactly how many lynches we have left. I have a feeling this is partially going to have to be luck based given the delayed flips. I just got up so I'm kind of lazy atm, but maybe in a couple hours I will figure out how many times we can lynch and how many of those people listed we can afford to get rid of.

VP Baltar · Wed Apr 06, 2011 4:34 am

s'okay. we have enough to lynch VV anyhow. Still by far the best play for today.

VP Baltar · Wed Apr 06, 2011 5:22 am

Well, the way the wagon's played out the last day made you look pretty bad actually. So I don't really blame anyone for having a scum read on you from that. If VV doesn't flip scum, it's not unreasonable to think that SD tried to save you. And your early play was uncharacteristically lazy.

Other than that, I think you've been pretty fate-town.

VP Baltar · Wed Apr 06, 2011 12:19 pm

Equinox wrote:To cut some time: You sounded certain on Day 1 and early Day 2 that one of Concission and RedCoyote had to be scum given wagoning shenanigans. I get the impression you think I'm town, and you're not voting RedCoyote. What changed?

SD flipped scum.

tl;dr version: RC was pushing SD early on and stayed with it, so I'm willing to buy him as town given the current game state. Obviously you're town because SD secured your lynch at deadline.

VP Baltar · Thu Apr 07, 2011 5:56 am

I don't really follow your logic Equinox. You think Mae is most likely to be scum, but we should lynch elsewhere when we really only have one mislynch left....that doesn't sound like a very good plan. Explain.

VP Baltar · Fri Apr 08, 2011 12:52 am

Well, yeah, we shouldn't lynch until the replacements get in here and catch up. But we can't put it all on them or this is going to go too much down to the wire.

I'm not really sure how I feel about Maemuki...though I've been back and forth on that slot so many times this game it's ridiculous. You guys really don't see VV as trying to distance from SD late yesterday?

VP Baltar · Fri Apr 08, 2011 1:15 pm

AlmasterGM wrote:prod dodge

actual post tomorrow

not that i have that much actual stuff to say.

Good to see you're being consistent at least.

VP Baltar · Fri Apr 08, 2011 2:05 pm

Equinox wrote:Vigilante Ventriloquist, why would town try to rush the end of Day 3 when Shadow Dancer was on guillotine?

VP Baltar, I just feel stronger about Maemuki, and I'm not too sure of Vigilante Ventriloquist right now. He's holding on to a rather unpopular opinion when the evidence is plainly obvious; that doesn't sound like something scum would do when it's in their best interest to blend in.

Yeah, it was kind of making me think too, but I was hoping for more pressure on him today. Ah well. I'm going to review mae/jarti this weekend in full detail to see if I'm inclined to lynch there.

VP Baltar · Sat Apr 09, 2011 12:46 am

@LL - you want to give that post another go in English this time?

VP Baltar · Sat Apr 09, 2011 5:38 am

Ok, I did some rereading of Ythill and SD today. The things that stand out to me are:

1) Ythill was all over LuckayLuck like a cheap suit as long as he was alive. Like, worse than he was riding me even. He mildly pushed SD, but not nearly enough for SD to want him dead night 1 in my opinion. Luckay on the other hand would very likely want him dead. Put the two of them together on a scum team and you have ample reasoning for them to kill Ythill. I highly doubt anyone had a PR read on him.

2) SD doesn't really say much of anything about LL all game. While on his deathbed, SD places LL in the 'third scum what do I know?' category, which seems like a convenient place to put a buddy you haven't paid much attention to all game. They have some mild back and forth that doesn't seem to have much conviction behind it early on and then that's the end of that. The few times they interact seem forced to me.

Additionally, I feel like LL has dropped off the face of the earth as this game has gone on. Not that a lot of people haven't been lazy this game, because they have, but I felt like he was really into the game early on and trying hard. That's why I had a town read on him despite his reads and cases sucking so badly. He's been buddying up to Fate and I all game, as SD was doing too. I think this was a conscious ploy by the scum team to make it Fate+VP vs. RC+AGM. I don't like the suspicion that's been on me this game, but I can probably understand it given I've been kind of lazy and bitchy at times. So, I would think it's reasonable for people that don't have much experience with me to be suspicious over that. SD and LL weren't really at all. That's all WIFOM of course, but that's what my gut is saying.

I'd like LL dead today.

Unvote, Vote:LuckayLuck

VP Baltar · Sun Apr 10, 2011 1:43 am

RC wrote:VPB, do you put any stock into the idea that, because LL's initial scumreads were so offbase, he may have taken that blow to his self-esteem a little hard?

Eh, that's one possibility, but I think he's also had more than enough time to dust himself off and get back in here. His only saving grace is being early on the SD wagon.

Look, I'm getting tired of arguing here. Maybe we should just lynch Fate because he's going to be a huge source of distraction until we do. I suppose it's better to spend a possible mislynch on him now than it is to have him in lylo with so many questions surrounding him. I'm willing to come over to Fate's wagon I think, but if he flips town then town needs to start listening to me tomorrow.

VP Baltar · Sun Apr 10, 2011 12:27 pm

Did you crash the bike with the girl on board?

VP Baltar · Mon Apr 11, 2011 11:16 am

I agree that VV is scummy as shit. he's done next to nothing today and is waiting for a Fate lynch. That's what I don't like about this entire Fate wagon. It feels so damned lazy and dirty.

VV and LL still feel like superior lynches to me.

VP Baltar · Mon Apr 11, 2011 11:51 am

My point isn't that there isn't enough about Fate. My point is that you are resting easy waiting for his lynch, not trying to figure out if it's the right lynch or who else could be scum. That's how scum coast generally.

VP Baltar · Tue Apr 12, 2011 4:32 am

^ approve of this vote

VP Baltar · Tue Apr 12, 2011 4:32 am

Also, happy scumday equinox!

VP Baltar · Tue Apr 12, 2011 9:42 am

I agree with Fate. The derp meter on this game just went over 9000.

VP Baltar · Tue Apr 12, 2011 10:08 am

Fate, you're town and I'm not letting you out of this annoying ass game as long as I have to stay here too. Sorry brother.

VP Baltar · Tue Apr 12, 2011 10:13 am

Fate wrote:ONE OF YOU CLOWNS CALLING ME TOWN IS SCUM

I SEE YOU READING THIS THREAD SHADOW

YOU FUCKIN HAPPY?

YOU HAPPY WITH YOUR FUCKIN PLAY?

GOOD FOR YOU FUCK

I'd say scumz are LL and one of GREYice/VV

VP Baltar · Tue Apr 12, 2011 10:14 am

Who do you want to lynch out of those three Fate? I will get it done.

VP Baltar · Tue Apr 12, 2011 11:14 am

Let's be honest, did you even read this game ICE?

VP Baltar · Tue Apr 12, 2011 11:16 am

Yeah, that's what I thought. You didn't.

VP Baltar · Tue Apr 12, 2011 12:36 pm

GreyICE wrote:
VP Baltar wrote:Yeah, that's what I thought. You didn't.
QQ ICE CAUGHT ME EVEN THOUGH HE SHOULDN'T HAVE

Being lazy doesn't catch scum. You haven't read the game. You seem to have iso'ed me and chosen what you think are scummy quotes with no real context to them. This is indicative of one of two things: 1) all the noobs who come on the site recently and over value their abilities by miles 2) scum preying on town apathy in this game and expecting coast by as long as he produces SOME kind of case.

I believe it's the former atm, in which case pull your head out of your ass and play better. Continue being lazy and stupid, and you might persuade me into believing it's the latter.

VP Baltar · Tue Apr 12, 2011 12:40 pm

lol, give it your best shot.

I like how you don't even have a second suspect at all. You certainly are putting effort into the game and proving me wrong.

VP Baltar · Wed Apr 13, 2011 12:46 am

Fate, RC and chesskid need to come vote LL so we can end this day.

Doubtful I will responding to Grey's quote cherrypicking unless someone who I believe to be town actually wants me to. I don't have the patience at this point with this game. I think I've given all the cases a fair shake today, and Fate lynch just doesn't feel right to me in spite of the SD flip. We need to start organizing here.

p. edit - RC - I am willing to compromise on a Fate lynch today if absolutely necessary, but I really don't like it. Do you not see at all how LL or VV are scummy here?

VP Baltar · Wed Apr 13, 2011 2:48 am

On a non-game related note, I'm tired of people copying Fate's gimmick. Stop typing in all caps cause it's annoying as fuck unless your username is Fate, SpyreX or maybe Gammagooey. Other than that, fucking stop it. You're not cute, nor are you making any kind of point.

Grey - you've already admitted to cherrypicking so I don't get what your getting your panties in a twist about. As far as I can tell, you read my iso and chose quotes without any kind of context other than 'SD flipped scum'. The stuff you are pointing to actually shows a very consistent thought pattern of trying to figure the game out if you bothered to actually look at what you're doing. I believed AGM to be scum at that point and I had been arguing for it very consistently. Additionally, most people in the game had a town read on SD until shortly before his lynch. I wasn't the only one. I will tell you that you suck at this game only if you play like it. Not reading the game or paying attention to any sort of context falls firmly into this category. I am quite certain you are capable of playing better than that, so do it. Other than that, I don't really care how much you pout about it because 1) you're not going to get me lynched when I'm town and 2) you're really not going to get me lynched with such a bunch of nonsense.

VP Baltar · Wed Apr 13, 2011 3:07 am

When did I say I thought you were scum?

VP Baltar · Wed Apr 13, 2011 3:10 am

The answer is that I felt AGM more likely to be scum at that point. Had you read the game, you would have seen that. Yeah?

p. edit - that comment isn't about you. it's about other people in the game. ie, if LL wanted me to respond to you, I doubt I would. Quote this a million times so you don't forget.

VP Baltar · Wed Apr 13, 2011 3:11 am

My god, you really put in no effort at all. This game is so frustrating.

VP Baltar · Wed Apr 13, 2011 3:34 am

VP Baltar · Wed Apr 13, 2011 4:06 am

Fate, lynch LL with me bro. We are going to win this thing yet. Screw lazy town and lack of motivation. Screw long cases. Everything that needs to be said in this game has already been said. Time to kill scum.

VP Baltar · Wed Apr 13, 2011 4:20 am

Fate, why are you voting me exactly?

VP Baltar · Wed Apr 13, 2011 4:36 am

Fate, you've also stopped trying and that pisses me off. If I was scum, I never would have saved your ass from being lynched. End of story.

VP Baltar · Wed Apr 13, 2011 4:43 am

I did save your ass actually. You've been lazy and tunneled all game and I stopped the RC + AGM hate from pushing you over the edge.

Even if you don't like chess' personality, it is blatantly clear he's actually reading the game and trying. The fact you are sheeping Grey who

openly admitted to not reading the game

shows how lazy you're being here.

Also, chess is correct. So, pull your head out of your arse.

@AGM - you opposed to lynching LL?

p.edit - RC is not goddamn scum. Jesus. The way he pushed Shadow is not scum play. For crying out loud.

VP Baltar · Wed Apr 13, 2011 4:56 am

I will drag you kicking and screaming to victory then. No problem. We're lynching LL today.

It's up to one of: Vigilante Ventriloquist, RedCoyote, AlmasterGM to make this happen. Most likely won't be VV since he's probably scum.

VP Baltar · Wed Apr 13, 2011 5:07 am

Grey wrote:LuckayLuck gives me no scum vibes.

Helps if you read the game.

I actually like the current situation of LL v. Fate. Probably the same situation as SD vs. AGM. Let's see which way the scum jump.

VP Baltar · Wed Apr 13, 2011 6:33 am

Hammering a scum that is going down sooner or later gives town points? lol

@VV - if you ARE indeed town, you should be voting LL.

VP Baltar · Wed Apr 13, 2011 7:30 am

Equinox wrote:
VP Baltar wrote:Hammering a scum that is going down sooner or later gives town points? lol
And hammering Shadow Dancer over AlmasterGM doesn't?

No, not at all. Shadow's days were clearly numbered. If VV is scum, I could see him as simply trying to get some town points out of a losing situation. Had Shadow not been lynched that day, it was quite possible he would have gone the next. That would have left VV as obv scum in a few days, ie endgame...ie, just when you don't want to be obv scum.

VP Baltar · Thu Apr 14, 2011 12:23 am

This post by Luckay is hilarious in its desperation to prevent his own scummy lynch

LL wrote:I will not address any further inquiries about my play nor any flip floppery I have taken. What I have done stands as is. Sue me.

This is clearly him saying 'I know I'm being scummy and I'm going to try to stem the backdraft on my shit post by preempting you'.

LL wrote:argument falls apart as vp baltar has revealed that he expected sd to go eventually, hence if he ever voted or attacked sd, then it was purely to his benefit.

Doesn't make sense if our role PMs are different. You can make whatever conjectures about what you want. All I am saying is that I highly doubt SD would have made it long after that. True or False? I'd like to see you claim it otherwise.

Equinox wrote:When crypto responded to this question, how much did you look into his response?

Not a lot to be honest. I took his word at face value because he seemed earnest in his answers to me. I definitely could have pressed harder at that time, but I suppose I was kind of giving him a bit more of a pass than I should have simply because he was one of the players I had a decent amount of experience with.

Equinox wrote:By the way, VP Baltar, I think Ythill getting killed because he was a power role is pretty likely. His behavior here is similar to sottyrulez's behavior in Open 250.5.

I totally disagree. He was too out in the open and burning banners to get lynches. I would have believed him to be a VT with how aggressive he was being. Definitely wouldn't have thought tracker. He also didn't have any obvious breadcrumbs that I noticed or anything. I think the most logical conclusion is that an LL-scum and SD-scum wanted him dead because they were recurring names on his scum list. What about his play reminds you of SR in that game?

RC wrote:Damnit, Equinox.

LL, why are you lazing about? You realize you're about to be strung up?

I'll give you one guess.

Also, just as a side note, I hope people look at vote counts in ISO don't get confused about where LL was at on the Shadow Dancer wagon. He was very late to that game and there was just a lot of wagon movement in the final two days of that wagon. It was messing with me at first two until I checked out the votecounts more closely.

VP Baltar · Thu Apr 14, 2011 4:08 am

Considering he's read more of the game than you, it actually makes sense he'd have good reads Grey. Disagree? Care to read the game yet? Thought nooooooooooooot.

VP Baltar · Thu Apr 14, 2011 4:50 am

@Grey - Ok, let's hear some analysis then. Also, I haven't obtained my aviation license yet. Someday.

Equinox wrote:So you asked to see if someone did thinking about the setup without even seeing whether he actually did? I'm all for tone hunting, but ignoring the content of crypto's post gives the impression that your initial question was insincere. It was very obvious, even with a very cursory glance, that crypto completely misunderstood the setup; for someone who expected town to think about the setup, you sure didn't dwell on it too much. As for giving crypto a pass... not what I'd have expected of you, VP Baltar.

I'm not denying it was lazy. It was and I've said that since way back when. I had RL/other ongoing games happening at that time which were chewing my time. Could have been played better, but I just went with my gut feeling on it. It is what it is I guess.

Equinox wrote:I could argue sottyrulez were pretty blatant, too. Both sottyrulez and Ythill were more fixated than the average townie on power role claims. sottyrulez's case against me was based on lynching vanilla claims to protect the power roles; it became obvious as time when on they meant them. Ythill was somewhat the same way with his power role strategy and whatnot.

Wasn't his strategy to out the PRs pretty quickly though? IIRC, he wanted most of them outted by like Day 2 or 3 just to get the info out there. Doesn't seem like a protect the PRs strategy. Maybe your memory is fresher on it because you just read it, but that's what I recall.

Equinox wrote:What do you make of LuckayLuck sticking to the Shadow Dancer wagon when momentum was shifting to AlmasterGM?

His posting was pretty sparse during this time considering, so that is the first thing of note. Second, the momentum was shifting pretty quick and he may have thought he could get off by staying on the bus wagon while the mislynch happened. I don't think it was necessarily out of conviction that SD was scum that he stayed there. A lot of his posts from this time blatantly say 'not much I can do here'. And he's calling zoraster and Jarti scummy more than SD, imo. In fact, I don't even know how he names those three as scum when his vote for SD says:

LL wrote:I will throw caution to the winds and trust in crypto & fate. I begrudgingly give Jarti credit on having a 'note to self' on Shadow Dancer's shady activities.

Post #1048 of Shadow Dancer's actually simply makes no sense. It has no townie flow to it.

It's just out of left field that he calls SD scum (giving Jarti credit for finding the scum), then pages later he's convinced the scum team is SD (confirmed scum he barely mentioned previously), Zoraster (confirmed town), Jarti (person he gave credit to for convincing him on SD scum?). It's all very bizarre to me.

I also don't like the quotes here he adds in one liners about 'its pointless for me to say this, but I oppose the AGM lynch'. That just sounds very weak-willed...like he wants to look good after a possible town flip, but he doesn't actually want to derail the wagon.

What is your interpretation of his posts between March 10-12, Equi?

Idk, maybe I'm not giving him enough benefit of the doubt here. I'm reading over it some more and I

VP Baltar · Thu Apr 14, 2011 5:13 am

So you read 80 pages and your reads did not have any variance from skimming my iso. That makes sense. I contest that you didn't actually read the game.

VP Baltar · Thu Apr 14, 2011 5:35 am

My point is that you haven't attempted to have any kind of real thought process or discussion about why you think I'm scum. You've come with a preconceived notion and tried to use rhetoric to make your horrible case seem better. I know for a fact that you're wrong, so I'm trying to get you to use your brain for a bit and actually consider the game. You have failed to do so. That's cool. If this were earlier in the game and we had mislynches to spare, I probably wouldn't even care because I pretty much despise how lazy the town has been this entire game. I would gladly die. However, that's not the case so I'm stuck arguing with you.

Now, once again I suggest you try to actually look at context and read closely instead of making snap judgments. This is pretty much my final appeal. If you are just going to reply with more derpy 'scumplaining' throwaway comments, just save it.

@Fate - I suggest you read over LuckayLuck between Mar. 10-12 and stop being lazy. You're pissing me off because you can play better than this.

VP Baltar · Thu Apr 14, 2011 6:10 am

Don't blame me because fate decided to quit in the past ten pages.

Also, end of game will vindicate every single thing I've said about you playing like shit. So, let's just end that discussion, as it's a pointless ego battle I don't have the patience for.

VP Baltar · Thu Apr 14, 2011 6:17 am

It didn't go well because you are pig-headed. Like I said, end of game will vindicate me so you may as well start tucking your tail between your legs for post game.

VP Baltar · Thu Apr 14, 2011 6:21 am

I'm uncertain about if he's scum or not. I find it hard to believe that a scum would be so blatant in pushing a bad case and exposing himself at this stage when the town has fully imploded and skating by is the much easier road. That being said, if VV isn't scum then GreyICE almost certainly is.

Speaking of which: VV - What do you think about what I've said regarding LuckayLuck?

VP Baltar · Thu Apr 14, 2011 6:38 am

Fair point.

Regardless, I'm still quite certain about LL. We only get one lynch per day and that's the one that needs to happen. Did you look at what I asked you to look at?

VP Baltar · Thu Apr 14, 2011 1:52 pm

:O that was actual good posting. In this game. I'm in shock.

VP Baltar · Thu Apr 14, 2011 1:54 pm

That was VV

VP Baltar · Fri Apr 15, 2011 1:26 am

I think the real question is, why is LL isoing himself when deadline is approaching and we need to figure out who the scum are?

VP Baltar · Fri Apr 15, 2011 5:19 am

No, I'm tired of pointing out obvious motivations to people in this game. There is no reason to be looking over your own responses to see if they make sense if you're town. Town's motivation in this situation is to scumhunt effectively. Therefore, you must be looking at other people and determining who is scum. LL has put in no effort today to do so and is now looking at himself to evaluate the believability of his past responses.

tl;dr - if you're not looking at motivations, then you're not scumhunting.

What do you feel is wrong about me pointing this out to you, Equi? I mean, other than it's obvious and I shouldn't have to?

VP Baltar · Fri Apr 15, 2011 5:39 am

Equinox wrote:
VP Baltar wrote:What do you feel is wrong about me pointing this out to you, Equi? I mean, other than it's obvious and I shouldn't have to?
It came off as mudslinging to me. Sure, scum need to check themselves to make sure they're consistent, but town would check themselves, too, if they've lost track of their thoughts about the game. Post 2072 looked like you pointing at a null tell and screaming, "SCUM!"

Having said that, I don't like what LuckayLuck did with his self-iso, but seeing the proclamations that he's town has me scratching my head. Urk. Self-reminder here to read LuckayLuck after Fate.

By the way, I'm pretty sure LuckayLuck-VP Baltar is not town-town. Folks on the Fate wagon, yell at me if you disagree.

It's not really mudslinging as it is pointing out something I actually think is scummy. I agree with you that it's fine for a town to check themselves to remind themselves of their thoughts previously in the game. What I disagree with is how he looked back and was like 'this sounds scummy sure, but it's really not'. He's concerned with how he comes off rather than what he's actually saying. Additionally, I think LL has been doing his best to keep a low-profile today. So I'm going to call him out every time he posts in thread to get him in here and talking.

VP Baltar · Sat Apr 16, 2011 7:18 am

Ok, Equinox, so you tell me that I couldn't have read crypto's responses as earnest and then in the next paragraph you say you found him town because his posts sounded like genuine embarassment. So, the same exact thing I am saying, you are saying, but I'm scum because I couldn't have seen it the way that you see it? I don't even get this game anymore.

@RC - the main reason I see for lynching Fate is that SD made a move at the end of the day that could be taken as a desperate attempt to save him from the guillotine. I keep going back and forth on this point because Fate would be a tasty mislynch to me if I was scum and he was town, so it would make some sense to pull that move. On the other hand, I wonder if SD is that aware or was simply making a last ditch effort to save a buddy. I am pretty convinced that LL is scum here (in spite of Equinox's poor meta justifications), but I do concede that it's not implausible for Fate to be scum with SD given those wagon shenanigans.

VP Baltar · Sat Apr 16, 2011 7:38 am

no, bullshit. I've said the same thing since the start of the day.

VP Baltar · Sat Apr 16, 2011 7:39 am

I've said from the start that SD's move to seemingly save you stinks and is definitely a black mark on your jacket.

VP Baltar · Sat Apr 16, 2011 7:56 am

I said I could see the logic of why you were scum based on SD's flip. I said I disagreed with it as being a sure thing, and yes I even made some rhetorical flourishes because I was pretty certain you were town at the time. you can quote all the times I called you town for all I care. I did. I still think you could be town. That being said, RC is more town than you at this point and I'm certainly more open to his opinions. He doesn't want to compromise on LL, so I at least need to give his case serious thought.

VP Baltar · Sat Apr 16, 2011 8:50 am

fyi, my ass isn't about to be grass.

Also, when were you fighting tooth and nail? Grey was certainly posting his quotes repeatedly and using empty rhetoric to drum up a weak wagon, but I didn't really see you doing much of anything.

As I said before, you can quote any time I said you were town, it doesn't change the fact that I did say SD's vote looks bad on you. Btw, why are you suddenly acting like you have teeth when I make mention of you as a possible lynch? not like I was pushing hard or moved my vote.

VP Baltar · Sat Apr 16, 2011 9:49 am

lol, poor Fate getting picked on. I don't really care how Spy plays against you as scum because I'm town. If you think you're above reproach, then you're dead wrong.

If you don't like that from my play, then you should definitely be trying to get me lynched. Posting your capslock bravado isn't any more convincing than me pasting Shadow's scummy vote on Equinox at the end of yesterday. I'm not sure how many games we have to play together until you realize your bully tactics are pretty pointless against me. You want me to go dig up Mafia Holographica to remind you?

VP Baltar · Sat Apr 16, 2011 11:51 am

VP Baltar · Sun Apr 17, 2011 12:22 am

In what way is it broken wide open LL? In that somehow people are letting you live in spite of how scummy your play has been this entire day? In that you come in here to stoke the flames on a shit wagon without contributing anything real to the game? In that Equinox is completely sucked into burden of proficiency on me and can't see how stupid her point is?

I reserve the right to chew out every single member of this town excluding RC and chesskid (if town) when this game is finished.

VP Baltar · Sun Apr 17, 2011 12:39 am

What is the vote count?

VP Baltar · Sun Apr 17, 2011 1:00 am

Also, if I am lynched today, I will be proxying my vote to RC, so dont' think you've really won anything today scumbags.

VP Baltar · Sun Apr 17, 2011 5:22 am

Yeah, reads totally can't change. You are so right.

VP Baltar · Sun Apr 17, 2011 6:48 am

I have explained why I find people scummy. I find those reasons more compelling than AGM is anymore. Are you done making snarky comments for no reason?

VP Baltar · Sun Apr 17, 2011 9:07 am

Unvote, Vote: Fate

VP Baltar · Sun Apr 17, 2011 9:11 am

KEKEKE HAHAHSHFHSDHFD

or something similar that he would type.

VP Baltar · Sun Apr 17, 2011 9:29 am

That wasn't my reasoning for voting you at all actually. Feel free to continue with your conjecture

VP Baltar · Sun Apr 17, 2011 2:52 pm

KEKEKEKEKEKE and etc.

it's annoying when someone plays like this, isn't it?

VP Baltar · Mon Apr 18, 2011 1:32 am

Equinox wrote:there is so much cred to be had by defending AlmasterGM and bussing Shadow Dancer if LuckayLuck were scum.

This is my point. I don't really feel like he was making a huge effort to actually stop the AGM wagon from happening. Just occasionally saying, 'oh hey, I think that wagon is bad and mine is good'. It's certainly not the most damning thing ever, but it's the kind of subtlety I personally look for a in a scum trying to get town cred. You see it as null, but I guess we have a difference of opinion.

LL wrote:Does Fate reserve the right to do that too?

You'd have to ask Fate that.

VP Baltar · Mon Apr 18, 2011 6:32 am

I could never ever see LL and Fate as scumbuddies in this situation. EVAR.

VP Baltar · Mon Apr 18, 2011 6:59 am

You never did read my LL case. Wonder why.

VP Baltar · Mon Apr 18, 2011 7:03 am

Also, I'm being a huge cock this game, and I'm sure in hindsight I'll feel bad about that, but at this point I'm so tired of trying to reason with terrible posting that I'm just going to act like this and lynch people I think need to be lynched.

Sorry, but it makes zero sense for LL to one minute say I'm certain scum based on GreyICE's bad posting, then flop to saying RC proves I'm town, then flips back to saying Grey is right. I was giving him points for putting himself in front of the bullet earlier...Now I can see it was fakey fake. Vote stays. Will be lynching LL tomorrow.

VP Baltar · Mon Apr 18, 2011 7:31 am

it's called sarcasm. Ill dumb down my material from here on out.

VP Baltar · Mon Apr 18, 2011 7:33 am

Fate wrote:Because I really had no interest in a LL lynch, as much has been clear for quite some time.

So yeah, I didn't read it. "I wonder why" instead of "Hmm actually it maeks no sense that Fate didn't juts hop onto the LL counter-wagon to his own if he was scum" = you slinging mud in the former INSTEAD OF putting things into perspective and scumhunting in the latter

I made a legit case and the fact that you won't even give it a glance says plenty about your motivations there. I don't care what you think of LL. I made a solid case with good scumhunting that was worth a two second lynch. Now you die.

VP Baltar · Mon Apr 18, 2011 8:18 am

This is jack's total sense of not caring what you have to say Grey.

VP Baltar · Mon Apr 18, 2011 8:34 am

Just as a side note for when this game is done, if you don't act like a twat I will most likely respond to you in a fair manner and give you my best effort, regardless of what you think about my alignment. The fact that you misrepresent every single point in that case to make it fit your tunneling and sound weaker than it actually is doesn't really give me any incentive to debate it with you.

VP Baltar · Mon Apr 18, 2011 8:56 am

Really? Where did I do this?

VP Baltar · Mon Apr 18, 2011 9:00 am

That's exactly what I'm talking about. You don't get to act like you want to have an open discussion about things and then be completely snarky to every single thing I say. You've reached your conclusions since before you even bothered to read the game, so it's quite pointless for me to act like you care what my responses to you are at all. Agree or disagree?

VP Baltar · Mon Apr 18, 2011 9:47 am

Well, derpity derpity do, in case you haven't noticed we only have one mislynch left. I like to win games. That's why I play mafia, to win. When I have people come into games acting completely belligerent over a bad case and not wanting to hear a word to the contrary, I find it highly irritating. Especially when I look at your profile and see you're 26, so you don't even have age as an excuse for acting that way.

All of my actions have been explained in this game to the best of my ability. I think there is a clear thought process throughout the game as well. You don't like it, that's your choice. If you ask nicely, I'll respond nicely. If you act like a jerk and want to type in all caps, then I'll just ignore and continue to appeal to people that want to be reasonable. Look at how I've responded to Equinox if you want an example. She's been wary of me just as much as you and I've tried to answer all of her queries even if she doesn't agree with me. What do you suspect is the difference in your approaches to the game. Town should definitely explain their actions, but if you make shit cases without reading the game and then act like you're a 15 year old, I don't know on what grounds you expect decency in return.

VP Baltar · Mon Apr 18, 2011 10:23 am

Well, I completely disagree with your point that SD was under more heat from Ythill. Seriously, if you look at his iso, Ythill was banging the drum most of the day for an LL wagon. His attacks on SD were not nearly that strong. If they had survival motivation for killing him it was because of LL, not SD. This is cold hard scum motivation you're asking about.

SD said plenty of things about the players you listed. Hell, he was buddying up to me in pretty much every single reads post he made. Same thing with Fate to a lesser degree. Additionally, I find the few interactions between SD and LL to be very forced in nature. It's not just that it's SD either, that channel goes both ways. When SD is in his death throes he places LL on his scumlist seemingly out of left field. The scum motivation here is distancing. It was done poorly.

The final point about LL dropping off is admittedly the weakest. There are town motivations to do this, including simple apathy about this game. If you want to call that one null, so be it. I consider it more corroborating evidence to the first two points than the latter.

In terms of Fate, I find his flop on me when he was seemingly in trouble again to be scummy. He is sheeping your case and trying to take credit for it. Additionally, he is trying to bully me into calling him town, which is bullshit. SD's vote on Equinox yesterday to save Fate from the guillotine is suspicious. Admittedly, I wrote it off before because I did have a strong town read on him. However, 90 percent of my town read on him was based on playstyle and little else. It is very possible that Fate is playing to his town meta this game (considering he's hyper aware of it) and I decided to reconsider. Now he's flailing hard. For example, he says he wouldn't proxy his vote. Why is that? Seems to me like if you get lynched, proxying your vote to a strong town read like RC is optimal play in this setup. It removes WIFOM from the equation.

I hope this has explained my position to you so you don't feel like I'm making so many threats.

VP Baltar · Mon Apr 18, 2011 11:23 am

Grey - I gave you a fair and civil response to your post. I am trying to bury the hatchet. You have nothing to say in reply to that?

VP Baltar · Tue Apr 19, 2011 1:27 am

I have been thinking more about this proxying vote thing, and the more I do, the more I like it. I wish I had thought of it sooner.

Let's face it, regardless of who gets gullotined, there is going to be some degree of suspicion around that person, correct? This creates many problems, particularly since we're never going to be 100 percent sure we're in lylo. In order to deter (since we cannot prevent) quick hammers by scum, I suggest we proxy the guillotined person's vote to a mutually agreed town player. That player then commands the guillotined person's vote as his/her first vote. I know it's not fool proof, but it gives that town player a better chance to be the hammer and to stop a quick scum hammer from happening.

Thoughts?

VP Baltar · Tue Apr 19, 2011 3:23 am

How insightful. I wonder why I think you are bad at this game. No, as I predicted you weren't able to dupe enough town members into an obvious mislynch. Good effort. Try again tomorrow if you please.

VP Baltar · Tue Apr 19, 2011 3:29 am

lol, you're seriously going to insinuate I've had this idea in my pocket and have been holding it back? Why didn't YOU think of it? What are YOU hiding?

VP Baltar · Tue Apr 19, 2011 4:20 am

here's a hint Grey, you and Fate alone aren't going to lynch me tomorrow. So that's not the case at all.

@Equinox - it doesn't matter if the threshold is higher. Conceivably, the person on the guillotine could be scum right? That is why the person was placed there (except in your case, but whatevs). Therefore you could potentially have two scummy quick votes in play that make it easier for scum to get a quicklynch. It is not going to make for a quicker lynch because presumably the person controlling the double vote isn't going to just hammer someone right away. Granted, this operates under the assumption that people who are town try to be reasonable and figure things out. So, the way I think it would work best is for the town double voter to tell the gullotined person to place their vote where they want it. Meanwhile, the town double voter reserves his own vote until he is absolutely 100 percent sure of who he wants to lynch.

Now, the problem is that the person on the gullotine can always change his vote. There isn't really a way around this, but by having the controlling town member handle the vote, it at least lessens the chances the guillotined person would want to risk changing and looking scummy. I see no reason for a town member to disapprove of this approach because it eliminates wifom from the guillotine vote.

VP Baltar · Tue Apr 19, 2011 4:43 am

If I was third, who would you rank above me LL?

VP Baltar · Thu Apr 21, 2011 10:08 am

I don't get why RC wasn't killed last night. That makes no sense to me.

VP Baltar · Thu Apr 21, 2011 1:20 pm

hey, guess what. I have two votes and I've not been quicklynched yet. Guess what that guarantees? Fate is scum?

VP Baltar · Thu Apr 21, 2011 2:06 pm

team derp is in full effect. Continue making the thread unreadable.

VP Baltar · Thu Apr 21, 2011 2:53 pm

Vote:chesskid

VP Baltar · Thu Apr 21, 2011 2:54 pm

Fate's partner is either him or VV. I was swayed off LL because he put himself in danger yesterday.

VP Baltar · Thu Apr 21, 2011 11:57 pm

So I can rub it in your fucking faces that I was town now?

VP Baltar · Thu Apr 21, 2011 11:58 pm

Yeah, if it's RC, it's probably LL. He was hardcore defending him after I made my case on him.

VP Baltar · Fri Apr 22, 2011 12:53 am

chesskid3 wrote:whatever I was right about VPB that's as good as a victory

Yeah well, you were the only one acting with any kind of sense yesterday who was also town. Don't forget that we were probably right about LL as well.

VP Baltar · Fri Apr 22, 2011 1:53 am

chesskid3 wrote:nah VV claimed scum with RC >_>

Oh, guess I was my most correct a few days ago then.

I really got to stop changing my mind so easily.

VP Baltar · Fri Apr 22, 2011 4:25 am

*insert rant about tunneling without thought being terrible play*

In terms of the setup:

1) I didn't really care for it from the start and I only really played because you're my boy hito. Delayed flips making it nigh impossible to scumhunt effectively. I thought this would go away as the game progressed, but it really didn't. I also think RB + RC against the shitty town PRs is pretty imbalanced in scum's favor. You're essentially giving the scum three shots every night to shut down town power. You'd probably be better off with something closer to a mountainous setup, imo.

2) I think the delay is fine under Open guidelines. We all knew what we were getting into.

3) No, I doubt I would play this setup again. Much like Friends and Enemies, I just don't like the role interactions and that made it rather unfun for me on a whole.

In terms of modding:

I thought your modding was fine and I appreciate your regular votecounts. I thought you were a touch harsh on deadline extensions because of the replacements. When Mae came into the game, I think it would have been a fair thing as moderator at that point to give a deadline extension. I think you should definitely take this under advisement for your newbie game, because you will need to be gentler with them.

Other things:

Good job to the scum team, you guys played a decent game. Capitalizing on town frustration and apathy was a smart play here. It seemed like anytime the town would get any momentum toward one of you, town in-fighting would quickly dismantle it.

In terms of those that were largely responsible for the in-fighting, pull your head out of your ass next time. That's all I'll say. When you're town, I don't care how sure you think you are, it's important to consider more than just one possible scenario. I'm sure I was rude at times, but it is extremely frustrating when people are making terrible cases and are completely unwilling to make any sort of reconsideration regarding it. I don't really hold a grudge against anyone because of this game, but it also wasn't the most pleasant playing experience.

Need to read the QTs at some point.

VP Baltar · Fri Apr 22, 2011 4:47 am

I'm not really going to argue with you because I don't care enough to. All I'm saying is that you tunneled on me from the moment you replaced and weren't listening to a word I said otherwise. I honestly feel like you came at me with an attitude from the start because you wanted to be right. That is why I was calling you awful, because frankly I do find that to be awful play. I did try to offer an olive branch and open the channels of discussion at one point by explaining why I felt my LL case was solid. Even though it has been shown I was wrong now, I still think it was worth discussion and I was open to discussion about it. The same thing was said to me by other players when I said VV was scum. It just pisses me off when people are so dismissive about possibilities other than what they feel.

VP Baltar · Fri Apr 22, 2011 4:59 am

Dead QT iz da borings. Even the dead townies were as lost and apathetic as the living ones

VP Baltar · Fri Apr 22, 2011 5:17 am

OK, well it is a good thing you couldn't be wrong. That would really fuck things up. Done with this line of discussion and I wish you the best.

VP Baltar · Fri Apr 22, 2011 5:57 am

Duplicity wrote:I think you're both overreacting to a degree, although your reads were wrong no one brought up that reasonable a case against either of the mafia. With no information or case like that brought up you're highly likely to stick to your intial gut read or instict which is what both of you did.

No, not really. Cases were made against both VV and RC at various points. But regardless of that, making a case on a scum player isn't going to auto-win a game. Town's have to work as a team and discuss ideas until the right one is achieved. I did not stick with my gut reads at all and I feel I was very open to discussion. The problem was that no one was willing to discuss a damn thing. Half the town stopped contributing to the game whatsoever and the other half was spamming the thread with "nah uhhhhhhh" to anything I would post. It's not really so much about being immediately right as it is about communicating properly. Apathy and pointless discussions give the scum pretty much free reign of the game state.

VP Baltar · Fri Apr 22, 2011 6:12 am

Duplicity wrote:I can agree there was a lack of discussion about the minor cases made against them, and although you were open to hearing them you never took the initative to step back and say "Why are we letting RC glide through consisdering the fact he should have died nights ago", therefore the blame of the loss is just as much on you as anyone else.

The first thing I said today was 'why isn't RC dead?' Then I was quick lynched.

VP Baltar · Fri Apr 22, 2011 6:46 am

VV wrote:I think this game was a good example of why you can't have a town full of leaders. From the start, the town had 4 or 5 players trying to pull the town in their own directions and all of them were used to just being followed. When those players couldn't coordinate their reads, town was already in pretty bad shape. Those that didn't get their preferred lynches day 1 wanted them day 2. Those that didn't get their preferred lynches day 2 wanted them day 3 etc

This is very true.

VP Baltar · Fri Apr 22, 2011 8:12 am

Fate wrote:VP's"Why didn't RC die" screamed town.

Then he scumslipped as town that it was LyLo after VOTING FOR ME yesterday.

So yeah, I wasn't moving my vote.

I was right though...that's what I don't get. If you were town (which you were) it was lylo. I don't understand what you guys were on about there.

VP Baltar · Fri Apr 22, 2011 8:36 am

Either I mistyped or you guys misunderstood then (too lazy to look). What I was saying was that if you were town, it was lylo and I would have been quick hammered....which you were and I was. I was saying that the lack of that quick hammer at that time was a sign you were scum. Makes sense now?

But yeah, we shouldn't have turned on each other. Had crypto stayed and put effort forth, I think the VP-Fate-crypto alliance could have survived and prevailed in the end.

p.edit - What VV said.

VP Baltar · Fri Apr 22, 2011 11:15 am

zoraster wrote:I disagree with VP. I hate when deadlines are extended for very long, even when it's for replacements.

I don't think giving a couple days so town can hear from the replacement before night affects the game adversely at all.

VP Baltar · Tue Apr 26, 2011 6:19 am

RC wrote:I saw it as a personal victory to get you two at each others throats.

That was more GreyICE's fault wasn't it