Open 308 - Gurgi EC8 - Game over!

[Amrun]

/confirm

[Amrun]

What do you mean by that?

Do you mean "I will investigate X," from everyone, and then if that person dies and flips weak cop, it's likely they investigated scum?

But the scum nk throws a wrench in that plan.

[Amrun]

Yes, I think the benefits outweigh the confusion if we have two or more dead cops in a night, which may never happen.

And if a weak cop flips from investigation later, we get a string of innocents.

I vote yes for hypoclaiming.

[Amrun]

No, if only 1 weak cop dies then it was obv a scum kill so we know his/her target was innocent - still useful.

[Amrun]

We should assume scum will choose to kill.

As for proving their own innocent... Okay, yes.

Then we should treat a weak cop nk as an uncomfirmed result. I didn't think of that.

I still think it's worth it.

[Amrun]

Because I don't see why the scum would work against their own wincon.

That is something to be taken situationally, and if we as a town can see merit for scum in a no kill, we can discuss it then.

But generally speaking, scum are going to kill at night.

[Amrun]

Yeaaaaah... That post by Archaist was not so great. If you agree, then you agree.

[Amrun]

I'm sorry; I totally missed that question as it was on the bottom of the page.

Usually, the best way for scum to achieve their wincons is to kill at night. There are exceptions to this, but they are rare.

[Amrun]

Oh, and:

VOTE: Kublai Kahn

For pussy footing around accusations.

[Amrun]

UNVOTE: Kublai Kahn

VOTE: Archaist

He's trying to sow the seeds of dissension and this set-up requires town to cooperate. I don't like it and I think he's scum.

[Amrun]

Oh, and I do believe that was L-1.

Do with it what you will, all.

[Amrun]

Actually.

UNVOTE: Archaist

VOTE: Kublai Kahn

I don't want to give you the chance to self vote, or anyone to quickhammer.

That was a bit reckless of me.

[Amrun]

OH MY GOD

HE DOESN'T EVEN KNOW WHAT HYPOCLAIMING MEANS

HE HASN'T EVEN READ THE THREAD

[Amrun]

You have just claimed your ROLE.

Therefore you have not even read the THREAD.

I am posting in caps lock because I am ANGRY AT YOU.

[Amrun]

Before we get down to anything serious, let's agree to a pre-lynch hypocop claim by everyone.

What do you mean by that?

Do you mean "I will investigate X," from everyone, and then if that person dies and flips weak cop, it's likely they investigated scum?

But the scum nk throws a wrench in that plan.

;LKDFJA;KLFDJA;SDKLFJA;LSKDF

[Amrun]

.........................

....

The point of doing it is so that the cop can claim without outing himself - or possibly themselves, in this game - which is why every non cop was supposed to do it too.

[Amrun]

Do you know the meaning of the word "everyone?"

[Amrun]

So you supported a full claim on day 1?

[Amrun]

I apologize for my frustration.

[Amrun]

It is WIFOM.

I'm sitting here trying to decide if we should lynch it with fire or if it was genuine.

I can't make up my mind.

[Amrun]

I appreciate subtlety, but that isn't what that felt like to me. It felt like a leading question that gave you room to backpedal later.

[Amrun]

He's trying to sow the seeds of dissension and this set-up requires town to cooperate. I don't like it and I think he's scum.

Since you're around, Amrun.. What's with this reasoning? Anyone who disagrees with a town read is scum? Awfully big leap, isn't it?

No, it wasn't just that.

He was trying to cause undue paranoia about hypoclaiming as well.

It was the tone of his questions on dbg that struck me as off.

But then I realized what he actually thought hypoclaiming was and it made more sense.

I believe his claim as well.

[Amrun]

No lynch is terrible. I won't participate in it.


Korts, putting Archaist at L-1 was reckless of me. I got caught up in the moment, trusting no one would hammer until it was time, but when I thought about it, it was a bad move.

I'm lucky Archaist wasn't scum. He could have self-hammered and fucked us all there. -.- Lesson learned.

[Amrun]

Well, it wouldn't have been the end of the world, but it would not have been optimal.

And I said earlier that I believe Archaist's claim.

[Amrun]

Oman: Yes, I considered it. I decided that would be a very sneaky scum move. Possible? Yes. I've decided it's not likely, but I'm not keeping it off the table entirely. If he acts like a scumbag throughout the game, his claim won't save him. For now, he gets the benefit of the doubt.

[Amrun]

The way in which it was done, faking a misunderstanding of hypoclaiming to claim vanilla early for towncred (if it was scum), would be sneaky, not the vanilla claim in and of itself.

[Amrun]

The way in which it was done, faking a misunderstanding of hypoclaiming to claim vanilla early for towncred (if it was scum), would be sneaky, not the vanilla claim in and of itself.

The misunderstanding can have been genuine without the claim being so.

It could have, but I have decided that this is more likely than not not the case. If that were so, I don't think he would have volunteered to go first. I'm not totally convinced on Archaist, but for the purposes of today, I no longer want him to eat rope, which is effectively a town read.

I like kk's more recent posts, and I don't like empking's.

Until I have time to re-read with special attention to Empking and Dbg, who is being especially absent, I will unvote.

Unvote

[Amrun]

I forgot bv was playing, to be perfectly honest.

That makes him worse than DGB, who has at least taken a stance on something.

[Amrun]

Something about DGB's play has stuck out to me as gut scummy, though. I can't identify it.

Bv has lurked, and is certainly the worse lurker, but I've played with him before and seen him lurk this way as town.

So bv doesn't stand out in a scumspect kind of way as of yet, but. He does need to post more.

I realized my previous post was misleadingj hope this clarifies.

[Amrun]

Yeah, but it grew stronger when she started lurking.

[Amrun]

Korts: I am playing with a hydra of hers and a little birdie told me she's far more likely to lurk as scum, in the context of another game. But if I could have pointed out exactly what felt off about her play, I would have mentioned it earlier.

I don't think bv is town; I don't think he is anything. He is off my radar, but his post didn't strike me as scummy or as anything.

Hence why he really needs to post more.

My only point about bv is that lurking isn't a scumtell for him.

[Amrun]

I was wrong, so very wrong, about DGB. There is no way a scum DGB makes that post. She had a perfect opportunity to give my wagon momentum and she did a 180 with it, and in fact made some very good points that led me to re-read the game and reach a similar conclusion.

VOTE: Oman

[Amrun]

What are you talking about? Of course I recognize that VT is the preferred scum claim. In this game, however, claiming weak cop is pretty safe.

My point is that I think he's town in spite of his early claim. Not because of it.


I knew exactly how my jump to you would look and I did it anyway because I don't really give a shit about how my votes look as long as they're on scum.

[Amrun]

Flay isn't in the game.

[Amrun]

The very worst thing that can happen for scum is a player to get confirmed town status in the minds of the town as a whole, so they work to prevent that.

[Amrun]

The way in which it was done, faking a misunderstanding of hypoclaiming to claim vanilla early for towncred (if it was scum), would be sneaky, not the vanilla claim in and of itself.

The misunderstanding can have been genuine without the claim being so.

It could have, but I have decided that this is more likely than not not the case. If that were so, I don't think he would have volunteered to go first. I'm not totally convinced on Archaist, but for the purposes of today, I no longer want him to eat rope, which is effectively a town read.

I like kk's more recent posts, and I don't like empking's.

Until I have time to re-read with special attention to Empking and Dbg, who is being especially absent, I will unvote.

Unvote

And this is sooo an unqaulified town read that will bring danger in LyLo. Sure.

[Amrun]

If you agree with Oman and think that I was making a dangerous, lasting-until-gamend townread, then I don't know what to say to you.y

[Amrun]

Hi, Cyberbob.

[Amrun]

Cyberbob, how long does it take to read this game?

I'm going to start hpoclaimin to generate activity.

Tonight, I will investigate Oman if he is not lynched. If he is, I will investigate Empking.

[Amrun]

No hypoclaim?

[Amrun]

Cyberbon, who gets your vote?

[Amrun]

Woops, nevermind. It was hidden in the wall.

Emmpking, this is the scummiest I've seen you play.

[Amrun]

I can definitely see an Oman-Korts scumteam, but I don't think that wagon will happen today. I'm afraid you probably have to make a choice between me and Oman, Archaist.

KK: Most of my recently completed games are in my wiki. Have at it.

[Amrun]

Korts, do you think Oman and I are bussing?

[Amrun]

What a lovely bit of fence sitting.

If you think Oman is scum and you think I am scum, then we must necessarily be bussing.

What I am seeing from you is a bunch of waffling in an effort not to commit to any one stance.

[Amrun]

You are being indecisive. I don't have to ttry and portray you as anything.

That being said, indecisiveness is not always a scumtell.

Why do you find DGB suspicious?

[Amrun]

Prediction likely to come true.

[Amrun]

Yeah, okay, Korts is also an acceptable wagon today.

[Amrun]

Bob, please demonstrate reasonable comprehension of the thread. I have clearly been following suspicion of Korts in my recent posts. There obviously was something about his post that made me even more suspicious of him, but I was work-phone-posting (being naughty) and I couldn't spare the time.

It is pretty easy to infer that Korts' answer to my questiion was unsatisfactory. His first reason has more weight, but I don't recall him expressing suspicion when it happened (Haven't't ISOed yet to be fair), but even then I think the point is bad. His second reason is nothing short of laughable.

DGB's Cyberbob vote was clearly just a kick-in-the-pants vote to get you posting content, and you responded in kind.

Even worse than his all-of-asudden DGB suspicion is Korts' flip flop on pairings despite claiming to hold no stock in them, especially since there are only two scum here. In other words, it is not possible for both an Amrun-Oman pairing and a DGB-Amrun pairing to exist. When the only content between this switch iss asking, "Why are you supicious of DGB" then this becomes quite fishy.

Oman: Despite my early vote on Khan, I have a fairly strong townread on him now.

[Amrun]

I don't remember him dodging any questions. Care to point them out? Also, what is the jib effect?

[Amrun]

As I saw him play more, I determined it is probably just part of his play style.

What I have figured out about Kahn is that for today, I do not care to lynch him. Tomorrow, if new information rises, that may change, who knows. But not today.

Korts: I have issues with your play, but I definitely want Oman lynched over you.

[Amrun]

Korts: I have issues with your play, but I definitely want Oman lynched over you.

Oman & Korts are buddies anyway. They're both wimpy and spreading suspicion wide with shady reasoning.

Basically agree, at this point.

I am not dumb enough to think my day one reads will be 2/2, so third pick is Empking.

[Amrun]

Well if we are right then we'll just be awesome.

Seems like we'll be no lynching because no one will even get their asses in here to hypoclaim.

If Oman dies, I'll investigate Korts. If not, Oman.

[Amrun]

Prove you're comfortable voting Oman by doing it.

[Amrun]

That isn't what your post said. Backtrack noted.

[Amrun]

DGB: Oman asks a fair question.

Korts: You said you noticed some towny things about me. You hadn't ntoiced before, and some scummy things about Oman you didn't notice before. That changes nothing?

[Amrun]

Korts' inconsistencies grow y the post.

Unvote: Oman; Vote: Korts

That makes 3, I believe.

[Amrun]

You suspect Oman all of a sudden?

[Amrun]

You suspect Oman all of a sudden?

What makes you think that? I want to investigate Oman because I want to live!

What a scum-oriented way of looking at things. Very survivalist.

[Amrun]

Who is your top townread, Empking?

[Amrun]

You suspect Oman all of a sudden?

What makes you think that? I want to investigate Oman because I want to live!

What a scum-oriented way of looking at things. Very survivalist.

Are you even trying now? The idea you're putting forward is that I'm scum faking a hypocop on a player I have a town read on so that my fake hypocop doesn't leave me getting killed?

Preview: Korts

Not necessarily, no. I am curious about your choice, though. Please answer my question.


Korts: show how I am being opportunistic, then. What a wishy washy attack.

[Amrun]

Who is your top townread, Empking?

[Amrun]

Oh, sorry. I didn't get that.

Why not hide behind Korts then?

[Amrun]

Oh, sorry. I didn't get that.

Why not hide behind Korts then?

Korts is a waste of a Cop. No way is he scum (unless Oman is also scum.)

So you're mildly suspicious of Oman after all?

[Amrun]

Oh, sorry. I didn't get that.

Why not hide behind Korts then?

Korts is a waste of a Cop. No way is he scum (unless Oman is also scum.)

So you're mildly suspicious of Oman after all?

He's a strong town read. Korts is a very strong town read.

Why? But you see an association between the two?

[Amrun]

The association is that the Oman wagon turned into a Korts wagon.

Yes, but I mean, do you think they could be scumbuddies, or something else?

[Amrun]

The association is that the Oman wagon turned into a Korts wagon.

Yes, but I mean, do you think they could be scumbuddies, or something else?

In the unlikely circumstance that Korts is scum then Oman is his buddy.

You're seeing at least something of what I see, then. I now understand your hypocop.

Would you be willing to lynch Oman today?

[Amrun]

What if the alternative is NL?

[Amrun]

Well, that might be the case.

Archaist: Would you be willing to vote for Oman (and out of fairness, me)?

Cyberbob: Would you be willing to vote for either Oman or Korts?

[Amrun]

Korts is at L-1, iirc.

[Amrun]

The problem is, we need intent to hammer from one of:

Oman, Empking, Cyberbob

Empking is out. I also see Cyberbob and Oman being unlikely. :/ I hope not, though.

[Amrun]

At this point, I think that's so, but mostly because the 4 people on the wagon are myself and 3 people I have reasonably strong townreads on.

Though I do agree with the overall point as well.

[Amrun]

I am leaning more town on Empking now.

I totally disagree with his reads, but his reactions to our latest bout of questions did seem genuine.

Here is my reads list:

SCUM

Oman
Korts
Cyberbob
Empking
Archaist
Kublai Kahn
DGB

[Amrun]

That list is scum to town. I forgot to put TOWN at the bottom.

[Amrun]

Who hasn't hypoclaimed?

That needs to happen now.

[Amrun]

Herp derp I am simply trying to achieve A LYNCH,n period.

It's p obvious we're heading for no lynch. If no one wants to compromise.

[Amrun]

I was just trying to see what wagons are achievable.

Oman is a possibility, I think.

[Amrun]

Actually, I don't want to lynch Oman anymore. If here were scum, I'd be dead by now.

So, anyone care to join me on the Amrun wagon, or start a DGB wagon perhaps?

Predictable turnaround is predictable.

[Amrun]

No, we need hypoclaims first before any hammers.

[Amrun]

Okay, then, someone can hammer. I'm good with this.

[Amrun]

I wouldy lynch Oman, of course. I'd prefer to.

VOTE: Oman

If DGB, KK, and Korts go to Oman, this will be a lynch.

I wish Cyberbob would show up.


P-edit: durrhurr, go read the MD article on "compromises."

[Amrun]

Wait, no claim first?

[Amrun]

Why is wishing we had taken our time and gotten a claim a bad thing?

Though to be fair Oman clearly had a chance to do so.

[Amrun]

I don't agree, but whatevawhateva.

[Amrun]

Sharing reads, or just throwing out vague questions? What do you think would be better right now?

[Amrun]

I had a nasty suspicion as the days went on, DGB. But Cyberbob really did stay off Korts' wagon, so I had doubt.

You played really well, DGB.

Cyberbob, stop with the QQ. Your defense was pathetic and you were basically begging to be lynched.

[Amrun]

>Play badly with no effort
>Get mad when people blame a good portion of blame of loss on you
>???
>Profit

GG to you, too, Korts.

[Amrun]

Cyberbob, your apathy is what lost the game. So I don't care if you're mad or not. I'm just saying don't protest people praising dgb's play and not yours because you put effort into EXACTLY one post in then entire game.

Archaist, sorry, but you didn't know dgb was scum. I call bullshit there.

[Amrun]

Oh, I see. Misread, my b.

[Amrun]

Cyberbob, your apathy is what lost the game. So I don't care if you're mad or not. I'm just saying don't protest people praising dgb's play and not yours because you put effort into EXACTLY one post in then entire game.

Saying my apathy is what lost the game is analagous to saying the player on a sports team that missed the score in the dying moments when it was tight lost the game for his team. I mean it's a handy way to pass your own share of the blame onto me but it doesn't hold up especially well. Especially when you're doing it to someone that doesn't really give two shits about losing or winning.

Only if the player didn't try at ALL.

[Amrun]

It doesn't, actually.

That would apply if I were saying these things to Archaist, who mishammered. But I am not, because he gave it his best shot. Huge difference.

[Amrun]

No, I am not. All townies share partial blame - but far more of the blame is on your shoulders than on, for example, mine.

Every other townie put in a solid effort. Every single one.

[Amrun]

Wait, why shouldn't Korts have been lynched? O.o

[Amrun]

Oooh...

I think she meant it as a vote though.