Open 329: Mayo Clinic D3: Town WINS!
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glowball Mafia Scum
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glowball Mafia Scum
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glowball Mafia Scum
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glowball Mafia Scum
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glowball Mafia Scum
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OKay so:
attempted town status failed
Then you distanced from it by calling it a conversation starter
Then vote me for my obvious lack of belief in your attempted town status (OMGUS variation)
Then a response to my heightened sense of awareness of your actions was trivializing sarcasm
You've been noted.
NINJA'D
1-You can find this information on the wiki
2-Well are we talking game breaking strategy? I mean there are lots of ways we can try to fix this seeing that we have 6 doctors for protection but it also allows for scum to claim vig and then if we protect them, they dont have a chance to die and we if we dont protect the outed vigs we risk losing them at night. If we try to lynch the scummiest of the vig claims then we risk lynching an actual vig. So NEVERMIND...at this point I don't see any reason why that would be a good idea.-
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glowball Mafia Scum
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Thomith wrote:glowball if you find vitamin scummy why are you not voting? Your suspicions seem more than slight which i really see as the only reason you woulnd't vote this early in the game.
I prefer to see where my vote is best placed first. Just because Vitamin is scummiest right now doesn't mean that someone won't come in with an even scummier reaction/comment to the interactions between us as players. We'll see where things fall- and another thing: I vote when I feel the need. My vote is still in RVS. No one will force my hand.-
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glowball Mafia Scum
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glowball Mafia Scum
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I generally have a bad feeling about claiming- I just don't like it and I think that there are several ways for it to go wrong and cripple town a whole lot more than scum. You are putting us at an even bigger disadvantage by giving scum the only information that they don't have which are the exact placement of PRs. Also, you can vote all you want if someone isn't on board they can lie and mess up the whole thing...don't test me, I've been known to lie during these pushy claim situations. OH AND GUESS WHAT? Town won in that game perfectly after we spent pages discussing claiming for it all to fly out the window.-
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glowball Mafia Scum
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Actually I don't have to do better than that. Every plan has faults HELL you couldn't even adequately explain what would happen with all of the claims, so you cannot hold me to a standard of disproving them until you have sufficiently proven them. Like I said, if you don't have everyone on board especially the PRs you want outed then your plan doesn't work at all.-
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glowball Mafia Scum
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glowball Mafia Scum
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glowball Mafia Scum
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glowball Mafia Scum
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There are 4 anti-roles if I am counting correctly resulting in a possibility of 2 kills (1 from the scum faction, 1 from the SK)
2 vigs.
What do you do with 6 claims?
and 4 kills out of that same group-- you still don't know who is who and OBVIOUSLY your reads are off so I doubt that you'll be able to direct the nightkills properly-
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glowball Mafia Scum
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OR they start taking out protective roles first? If scum skates under your radar they won't be targets, although 6 claims is a bit much 4/5 claims would be more reasonable. You guys are under valuing the doctors in this set up and having them not protect anyone and let the night kills go ridiculous how does that help? Not to mention, your plan takes a slight numbers change when you mislynch because someone doesn't agree with your plan. Let's see
You can lynch me and if I am a vig, then you are down one for that plan
You can lynch me and if I am a doctor, then you are down one protection where at least the doctors could all protect each other 3 for 3-
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glowball Mafia Scum
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glowball Mafia Scum
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glowball Mafia Scum
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V V G G SK
D D D D D D MD
Vig1 shoots Vig2
Vig2 shoots Goon1 (who was knowingly protected by MafiaDoctor)
Goon1 pretends to shoot Goon2
Mafia kill a Doctor from the pool
Any smart SK won't shoot from the that pool because it narrows things down even further SOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Sk shoots a doctor as well
oh yeah and the lynch which will most likely be a doctor because if you get someone up to L-1 they claim and people probably wont lynch a vig
So 1 Doctor dead by lynching
1 doctor dead by mafia
1 Doctor dead by SK
1 Vig dead by Vigging
No mafia dead
D D D
V G G SK
MD
Now from that pool of claims you still have 5 people and only 1 vig spot left, so you choose to lynch from there because the anti-town probability is higher
YAY YOU LYNCHED SCUM
So into the night
D D D
V G SK
MD
Mafia doctor protects the last goon
Mafia kill another doctor
Vig cannot succeed in killing from the pool because of the bulletproofSK and the goon being protected. So he should shoot for the mafia doctor, but he fails
2 More doctors dead
D
V G SK
MD
OH and you guys lynch SK wooohoooo
Oh but snap MD protects Goon, Goon kills last doctor- Vig kill fails
By morning
V MD G
Mafia Win
Claims do not increase chances of winning in most cases they just make the game more systematic. You still have to have accurate lynches and reads on other players which you guys aren't demonstrating so NO I cannot get behind a lynch ochestrated by people who have horrible scumdar.-
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glowball Mafia Scum
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That is just one way of many- but me doing THAT helps scum more than town, you guys should really work it out yourselves. AND DO NOT SAY ANYTHING ABOUT CHANGING THE PLAN DAY 2 if you don't succeed. Why?! Because you never laid out a concise plan- you laid out a jumbled up plan and now I've shown you how that can go wrong. Give me a concise step by step plan and I'll show you how that can go wrong as well
If scum are smart then yes... you just made me lay out a plan for them-
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glowball Mafia Scum
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It's all NK WIFOM with confirmation- and doctor train won't work since you don't know who the mafia doctor is. I can outline ways to get around this but it doesn't help town for me to keep giving scum ideas.
You have to remember that the Mafia Doctor will be in that doctor pool and can choose to WIFOM when you have plans and expectations like this. HELL they can choose to frame another townie by strategic killing or no killing.-
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glowball Mafia Scum
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izakthegoomba wrote:glowball, we cannot have a concise plan because it all hinges on the vig claims, and later, the NKs. But the planning we have done is more than sufficient for now.Of course there is a way for it to go wrong, but that is meaningless. I challenge you to find a plan that could not possibly go wrong... No? Didn't think so.Pointing out individual flaws in a plan while having no good reason for it to fail is VERY anti-town. I suppose you are trying to instruct your scukbuddies, in case you don't get to talk to them again. And unless you change your mind, you won't.
THAT IS MY POINT EXACTLY. MOST PLANS CAN GO WRONG AND ALL THIS PLAN IS TRYING TO DO IS MAKE THINGS MORE SYSTEMATIC FOR YOU WHO ARE LAZY. IT DOES NOT INCREASE YOUR ODDS OF SUCCESS BECAUSE YOUR READS STILL HAVE TO BE ACCURATE WHICH THEY OBVIOUSLY AREN'T
In other news... found scum-
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glowball Mafia Scum
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glowball Mafia Scum
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So what happens when one of the vigs doesn't kill their target? either that person is Mafia or their target is SK?
WRONG Mafia Doctor could choose protect someone just so that they don't die to frame another player
Also, iirc BBMolla first said that Doctor's wouldn't be protecting anyone from that pool now he's going with the Doctor Train so now you are directing the doctors to protect specific people? You are making it too easy for scum seriously because guess what EVENTUALLY you'll have to find the MafiaDoctor in that pool of doctors and if he doesn't choose to kill his own target and instead mafia keep killing who their fake vig claim is supposed to kill then they've got virtual confirmed status.-
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glowball Mafia Scum
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glowball Mafia Scum
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glowball Mafia Scum
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glowball Mafia Scum
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Well, I guess we won't know until end game. I too await to hear what others say, and if they side with you guys and this town pulls out a win I will eat my words and apologize- but I think in worst case scenarios especially considering those of you speaking are obviously horrible with reads or you're scum-
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PiggyGal15 wrote:As much fun as that spoiler game sounds I think it'd be too chaotic for me.
1 - experience: Completed one newbie game and one newbie ongoing right now. I play IRL all the time.
2 - philosophy: I agree with glowball. Having a vig claim wouldn't help much.
You sheeped my idea about NOT, and now that you've seen me get voted for it your tune changes and you place an opportunistic vote
YOU
ARE
SCUM
VOTE: PiggyGal-
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glowball Mafia Scum
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glowball Mafia Scum
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glowball Mafia Scum
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glowball Mafia Scum
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Seems like people got a little more reasonable while I slept. While I don't like BB I don't think he's scum. I still find Piggy scummy, but as I told izak earlier in that game I've played scum with him and his behavior is the same so I could get behind that lynch as well.
oh and ALL IS FORGIVEN
also, HI AND THANK YOU NEIL <3
also, YES I AM EMOTIONAL AND SENSITIVE, it's hard to control especially when I am in other games making me equally as frustrated.-
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glowball Mafia Scum
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glowball Mafia Scum
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Maruchan wrote:glowball wrote:I play because I enjoy proving people wrong and finding scum. Relationships make me frustrated too but I am in no rush to become a nun
Relationships make EVERYBODY frustrated. Its why I haven't attempted on for the past 3 years.
HA what a coincidence I was in one for the past 3 years, but anyway that doesn't say much you are only 17...
Back to game talk- It seems I am now not the only one against the claim. Discuss..-
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glowball Mafia Scum
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Maruchan wrote:glowball wrote:Maruchan wrote:glowball wrote:I play because I enjoy proving people wrong and finding scum. Relationships make me frustrated too but I am in no rush to become a nun
Relationships make EVERYBODY frustrated. Its why I haven't attempted on for the past 3 years.
HA what a coincidence I was in one for the past 3 years, but anyway that doesn't say much you are only 17...
Back to game talk- It seems I am now not the only one against the claim. Discuss..
You act as if 19 is so much more than 17.
QUOTE PYRAMID!!!!!!!!!!!! Well I'm almost 20!
and when you start saying things like you haven't had a relationship for 3 years those 2 years do make a difference
YOU: 17 minus 3 years= 14 years old, no one really expects you to be seriously dating anyway
ME: 19- 3 years= 16 years old, when dating really takes effect hahahahahahahahaha-
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glowball Mafia Scum
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So you don't lynch any doctors who let their target die-- so Mafia Doctor protects someone in the vig pool adequately framing another player, and then the mafia kill whoever the MafiaDoctor was supposed to protect because you won't lynch doctors until the end. The end comes sooner, when this is a game of numbers for them...-
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glowball Mafia Scum
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BBMolla, it's not about laziness- it's about standing my ground in what I believe and I am not the only one that felt that way. I just don't see how explaining how scum could manipu.ate your plan helps town more than scum. However, if you are going to be rude and arrogant you can definitely consider yourself blacklisted in the future because I do not put up with that.-
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glowball Mafia Scum
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Way to remark on a game you weren't in- there were extreme amounts of pages to read as opposed to this game which is only on page 8 so circumstances are different, but go ahead and be arrogant and stubborn your town read on me means nothing because you started digging your whole the moment you started painting me as scum and if we lose because you chose to muddy up my read on you with arrogance then I'll be just fine with that.-
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He's difficult, and I've already made my stance on mass claiming. Stop being lazy and just scumhunt as usual...why is that so damn hard? Also, claiming is not always pro-town BUT I have fair enough reason to believe that BBMolla was doing it with the best interest of the town. Like I said, plans fail when everyone isn't on board. I am not on board and as long as scum know that they get a free ride to claim whatever goes unclaimed with no counter.-
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glowball Mafia Scum
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The fact that you think that just shows me how little protection I need. I am an easy lynch for scum they don't need to night kill me, it's part of my playstyle some of you find me less than favorable they can see that so they keep me around because they know I am against the plan and probably an easy lynch down the line. Wanting or not wanting doctor protecting is a null tell because you would only need doctor protection if you were worried which I am not.-
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Thomith wrote:Good now drop the topic completely.
glow stop trying to act like every role and using WIFOM reasons against us saying you are probably not vig, if you are going to play around then i would prefer you dead than have you mucking around to look like vig when you might not be, if you are going to do it claim one way or another.
You are right. GUYS I concede, I'll follow anything you have to say now... I am sure this plan will be awesome!-
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glowball Mafia Scum
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I never said YOU said anything about the plan, but it's silly for me to keep fighting against it. You guys are right and I'll just shut my mouth and mind my manners. Guide me powerful newbs to a victory while scum sheeps your ideas and manipulates them.
Yeah there was some sarcasm, but whatever. I am done talking about it, do whatever you guys want my resistance is over.-
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Thomith wrote:Ever heard of fight for what you believe in? if you don't like something why are you giving in that easily? Why do you see no good in the plan, what would you propose instead?
oh these questions, I thought they were rhetorical...
I did fight for what I believed in. I am not necessarily giving in I just don't want to talk about it anymore.
There is good in the plan, but it can also go wrong and I've already said what I propose: I PROPOSE YOU GUYS STOP LOOKING FOR AN EASY WAY OUT UNDER THE GUYS OF A PLAN THAT IS NOT FOOL PROOF AND IS ONLY SYSTEMATIC. IT DOES NOT INCREASE OUR ODDS. JUST SCUM HUNT AND STOP BEING LAZY.-
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I don't think I should claim... I have a habit of lying when forced to claim in these situations. Also, given that I will most likely lie because I don't agree I can foresee myself being lynched at end game because you refuse to believe me then. You might as well lynch me today, and I do support Neil being against this plan. I am not letting you guys bully me into this, but without 2 claims you've got scum open to successfully claim our slots. BRAVO.-
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I am not claiming just because you guys want me to. I play games with the natural course and if I had known beforehand that I was playing with lazy people then I wouldn't have joined. I joined for the set up not to mass claim and try to break it. I HATE CLAIMS. Hell, I hate claiming at L-1 in normal games but it's what is done. I thought about replacing out, but I am here to play. Nothing about my play is against my win condition. YOU KNEW I was against this and went ahead with it anyway. It probably is in your best interest to just lynch me. You don't care about my opinions you guys are just pushing your own agenda.-
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You know what's even funnier, scum don't even have to all claim vig they could just hide in the doctor pool with only 1 or even none of them claiming vig. Then you direct the vigs to kill who? the scummiest players remaining and if your reads are off then so is the game. They could no kill because if I was scum I'd no kill and just use the mafia doctor to frame other players without limiting down the pool. It'd be a game of patience for scum if they had it but it's definitely possible.-
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BBmolla wrote:VitaminR wrote:glowball wrote:I did fight for what I believed in. I am not necessarily giving in I just don't want to talk about it anymore.
There is good in the plan, but it can also go wrong and I've already said what I propose: I PROPOSE YOU GUYS STOP LOOKING FOR AN EASY WAY OUT UNDER THE GUYS OF A PLAN THAT IS NOT FOOL PROOF AND IS ONLY SYSTEMATIC. IT DOES NOT INCREASE OUR ODDS. JUST SCUM HUNT AND STOP BEING LAZY.
Glowball, for what it's worth, my initial reaction to the plan was very negative. I like to play games the way they were meant to be played, even if that can be difficult. One thing that swayed me is the fact that this set-up is pretty much going to turn into a killfest without some sort of plan like this and not like a game of careful scumhunting or anything. This plan maybe takes away a bit of good old-fashioned scumhunting, but it also keeps the game sane.
Did you read this?
Also, claiming doesn't detract from scumhunting all that much honestly. We still have to figure out whose lying.
I truly suggest you replace out if you're that against it. You are going against your win condition by not claiming.
@post above.
No. If two vigs claim, and everyone else claims doc. We have two "lynches" per day. One to whom actually gets lynched(Which we have to SCUMHUNT to find) and the other is who both vigs shoot. This, like the lynch, will be voted upon. The decided target will be left out of the doc train, and because two vig shots go through mafia doc, mafia members are for sure dead. If the person doesn't die they are SK.
And yes, I think a game of nightless is more in town's favor. The less people who die per night the better off we are.
Claiming does not remove scumhunting in any way. It just prevents useless amounts of deaths every night.
No it doesn't, but YOUR READS ARE OFF and you guys will end up killing each other. YES it's more systematic way to pick off other town aligned! You won't be able to find scum that much is apparent by the fact that you wanted to lynch me and are giving the sheep a free pass. I am not saying that the vigs won't be able to kill, I am saying that all scum have to do is play like regular mafia and be so town that you don't even see them, sooner or later you'll just keep picking off doctors and then no one will be left to protect you.
I am not playing against my win condition. I want to win. YOU just want me to win the way YOU want. That is the circumstance you put on the game and no where in the rules does it say I have to mass claim if everyone wants it. You guys are just trying to push me in a direction and since scum have sheeped the idea I am definitely against it.-
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Maruchan wrote:glowball wrote:Also, yeah I read Vitamin's post and I wish he stuck to his guns. Mafia is mafia for a reason, I came to play not be ridiculous. YES there is a lot of killing, but I joined because I liked the set up. I am not refusing to play, I am just refusing to claim which isn't against my win con.
then go play Newbie if yo udon't liek that different roles force the game to be played in different ways.
Mafia is Mafia? Then go play some cop+doc+JK+town mafia, and you'll play the game you are wanting to play.
Also no one is forcing you to play the game like this. I love new roles, and I love different roles but it's no fun if you guys are too scared/lazy to see how it plays out.-
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BBmolla wrote:glowball wrote:It doesn't benefit the town if you just end up shooting town members! Like I said you thought I was scum for going against the plan, and ignored others completely obviously your reads are off.
So you're saying if we don't mass claim we won't end up shooting town members.
No- I am saying it doesn't increase our odds way one or the other. IT JUST MORE SYSTEMATIC! How many times do I have to say that? Or do you not know what that means? Your reads are off which is the second most prominent reason why I am against mass claiming.-
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BBmolla wrote:Glowball the only read I've given is that you're town.
No...
BBmolla wrote:glowball wrote:Actually I don't have to do better than that. Every plan has faults HELL you couldn't even adequately explain what would happen with all of the claims, so you cannot hold me to a standard of disproving them until you have sufficiently proven them. Like I said, if you don't have everyone on board especially the PRs you want outed then your plan doesn't work at all.
K, enjoy your scum PM. If you're not going to try I won't either.
VOTE: glowball
Also, thinking about it,
Serial Killer would put a HUGE risk on himself by claiming vig. It's almost a for sure lynch at some point, so IMO he wouldn't claim.
Mafia don't have day talk, so they'd have the same reaction glowball is having, because they wouldn't know how to handle it.
I think the two vigs claiming is the most likely occurance. Maybe two vigs with one mafia claiming. If that's the case we get one mafia and proceed to doc train.
You called me scum and placed a vote saying that my reaction was a scum reaction....-
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glowball Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 3740
- Joined: December 3, 2010
- Location: That Space Between Heaven & Hell
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glowball Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 3740
- Joined: December 3, 2010
- Location: That Space Between Heaven & Hell