Open 331: No Lynching Town - Game Over!
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The four posts I was talking about were:
izakthegoomba wrote:Morning!
VOTE: CSL
For personal reasons.
Empking wrote:Vote: CSL
Ellibereth wrote:Vote: CSL
Empking wrote:====[]
Let me give you a stream-of-consciousness recitation of my reading the thread:
1. Random vote, woo.
2. Random wagon, woo!
3. Wow, that's an L-1 wagon already.
4. ...wait, is thatlynchalready? What? *goes back to recount*
Repeated-equals open-square-bracket close-square-bracket means "the hammer has fallen" to me, not "Hey, somebody hammer!" The latter I generally see written out as "Hey, somebody hammer!"advice from a trans otherkin queer plural system: you don't have to accept what normal says it's possible for you to be.-
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Clearly you haven't been playing the games I've been playing.
Anyway, I'm off to the shower now, and then probably to the subway - let me know if you see anything interesting while I'm out.advice from a trans otherkin queer plural system: you don't have to accept what normal says it's possible for you to be.-
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Okay, I'm back fromworkfinishing upProfessor Layton and the Curious Villageand ready to rock.
Let's start with the obvious: Ellibereth and Empking have been playing off each other, but that's not evidence of their being scumpartners.
Actually:
UNVOTE: Empking
Empking's play seems pretty towny, although of the daffy variety. And after this:
CSL wrote:>Implying I look at this thread every 5 minutes
Unvote
Fine, I take it back.
...my play is going full-on ironic.
VOTE: CSL (L-1)advice from a trans otherkin queer plural system: you don't have to accept what normal says it's possible for you to be.-
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glowball wrote:are you serious?! I am not convinced CSL is town, but I'm definitely not convinced he's scum. There are only 2 scums, but the fact that CSL is at L-1 so quickly leads me to believe that he isn't scum
In a bigger game, I'd agree, but we only have seven players. The difference between one RVS vote and L-1 was two votes.By Empking and Ellibereth.
CSL probably isn't scum with either of them, but that doesn't rule out being scum with someone else entirely.advice from a trans otherkin queer plural system: you don't have to accept what normal says it's possible for you to be.-
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glowball wrote:Awesome let's stalemate until deadline and then no one dies we have no information and scum get a free kill-- the mechanics in this game are such that we have little risk and a lot of information to gain. Lynching Ellibereth will tell us a lot, especially about Emp and HipLop which may be why they are hesistant, but there is only 2 scumz. If Ellibereth is town then he will be here unless scum kill him at night, but we still have the information.
Deadline is twelve days away, we've got nearly as much risk with a mislynch as one has in a standard 9-player game, and the rest of your post is just wrong. Empking and hiplop haven't been "hesitant" about an Elli lynch - hiplop has been uninterested and Empking vocally opposed to it. Plus, a CSL lynch is much richer for purelyinformationalpurposes (plus, you know, she's scummier).
Pre-Edit: Ninja'd by Empking. Also, #118 is truth.advice from a trans otherkin queer plural system: you don't have to accept what normal says it's possible for you to be.-
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hiplop wrote:Packbat wrote:Err, if CSL's town, I'm gunning forhiplop, not either of the Es.
Wait, why?
I have townreads on Empking and Ellibereth. Whereas, if CSL is town, your vote was well-timed to rejuvenate a popular wagon, and one bearing two voters far more flamboyant (and therefore noticeable) than yourself.advice from a trans otherkin queer plural system: you don't have to accept what normal says it's possible for you to be.-
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glowball wrote:now I have a bad feeling about PackBat- why are you voting for CSL again?
My reasons are in my ISO - but on rereading, they don't hold up too well. And as far as I can tell Ellibereth has no reasons at all.
UNVOTE: CSL
VOTE: Ellibereth
(Also, the way he stuck in a votecount after I said reporting votecounts was useful - when what Imeantand what I wasdefendingwas reporting L-1.)advice from a trans otherkin queer plural system: you don't have to accept what normal says it's possible for you to be.-
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I'm somewhat relieved youdidn'thammer - the pace of the game has been pretty fast so far, and I wouldn't mind more time for discussion.
A list of my votes, with my best guess as to my thoughts at the time I placed them:
#9: Kinda random. L-1 rather than L-2 just because.
#11: Empking's violent reaction to my L-1 remark seemed off to me.
#83(& #97): Because of #22 overly strong objection to L-1 wagon (I had some thought that Goomba might be a scumbuddy of CSL), #28 "Packbat is town for not hammering", and (this is the reason I put in my post) #70 fleeing from the 1v1 deal. Oh, and a gut counterreaction against the "quicklynches are mislynches" heuristic.
#163: Reading in ISO, Ellibereth has provided very little in the way of reasons to vote for CSL, and his frenetic posting hid a lack of content in his posts.
Oh, and #168: check out #100-101 looks like a textbook scumbuddy interaction. Particularly with the way hiplop flees afterwards to the popular CSL wagon. And, similarly, #144-148 seem too familiar to be simply a player objecting to being denigrated.
UNVOTE: Ellibereth
VOTE: hiplop
If hiplop is scum, glowball is probably his partner.advice from a trans otherkin queer plural system: you don't have to accept what normal says it's possible for you to be.-
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Incidentally, completely separately from any interactions with glowball, there's reason to vote hiplop if you have a townread on CSL:
Packbat wrote:hiplop wrote:Packbat wrote:Err, if CSL's town, I'm gunning forhiplop, not either of the Es.
Wait, why?
I have townreads on Empking and Ellibereth. Whereas, if CSL is town, your vote was well-timed to rejuvenate a popular wagon, and one bearing two voters far more flamboyant (and therefore noticeable) than yourself.advice from a trans otherkin queer plural system: you don't have to accept what normal says it's possible for you to be.-
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"Made it pretty clear" as in "never said anything explicitly contradicting this", hiplop? Glowball and CSL are the two players you have voted, but you've not said a word about their being scum together.advice from a trans otherkin queer plural system: you don't have to accept what normal says it's possible for you to be.-
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glowball wrote:AHAHAHAHA, I thought it was 3 to lynch. My bad--- still this wagon could go either way. I don't see much reasoning from either party short of connections. I know for a fact that I am not scum with hiplop sooooooooooooooo if we are going off of pairings for lynching hiplop it's just bad.
First: connections are A+ super awesome, and yours are blatant.
Second: his CSL-wagon behavior supports suspicion of hiplop by itself - that's why I voted for him instead of you, glowball.advice from a trans otherkin queer plural system: you don't have to accept what normal says it's possible for you to be.-
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glowball wrote:Uh huh... you guys definitely need more backing than that. The only one who's bothered to make any sort of a case is Packbat but he is just suspect
...half a second.
*checks dictionary*
Yep, that's hypocritical. Elaborate your case on me, please.
Ellibereth wrote:I'm back from windmonsterland.
yay
Glad to hear it!advice from a trans otherkin queer plural system: you don't have to accept what normal says it's possible for you to be.-
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Empking wrote:Because hip is a town read.
Let me get this straight. You're saying:
1. glowball is scummy because of glowball's interactions with hiplop, which look like scumbuddy interactions.
2. hiplop is town.
...what?advice from a trans otherkin queer plural system: you don't have to accept what normal says it's possible for you to be.-
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Packbat wrote:glowball wrote:Uh huh... you guys definitely need more backing than that. The only one who's bothered to make any sort of a case is Packbat but he is just suspect
...half a second.
*checks dictionary*
Yep, that's hypocritical. Elaborate your case on me, please.
Still need this, glowball.advice from a trans otherkin queer plural system: you don't have to accept what normal says it's possible for you to be.-
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Also, many, many boos for all the 1v1 talk - that only makes sense when we can be confident that a pair of players contains exactly one scum, and no-one has offered any reason to think this is the case atanytime the offer was made.advice from a trans otherkin queer plural system: you don't have to accept what normal says it's possible for you to be.-
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Empking wrote:glowball wrote:or HELL we can get me today so you guys can drop this hiplop scumteam thing and then tomorrow all of you sheep me to victory EVEN if I am dead you will kill PackBat> Izak>CSL
Yeah no way is it a glow/hip team
WHY THE HELL NOT?
For the sake of all that is holy, if you're going to make pronouncements, includesome hintof what your reasoning is. There are automatically two players in this game lying to everyone - make themworkfor it. Anyone can say "no way" or "confirmed" or whatever absolutist sentiment - but if everyone is forced to give reasoning, scum will be forced, too, and that'll mean that they have to bullshit, and forcing them to bullshithelps us catch them.
glowball: why are you maintaining that I am scum? Include references to specific posts.
Empking: why is hiplop town? Include references to specific posts.
Empking: why is a glowball/hiplop team impossible? Include references to specific posts.
Ellibereth: are you still of the opinion that CSL is the player most likely to be scum? If so, explain why. If not, who is your top suspect, and why?Include references to specific posts.
Pre-Edit: glowball: specific posts.advice from a trans otherkin queer plural system: you don't have to accept what normal says it's possible for you to be.-
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glowball wrote:I'm too lazy for all of that you should re read the game and look at yourself.
I did reread the game. That's what #168 was about. If you want to dispute the material in that post, that'syourjob.advice from a trans otherkin queer plural system: you don't have to accept what normal says it's possible for you to be.-
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Empking wrote:If you make town make stuff up then you won't be able to catch scum when they do it.
FAIL.
Town does not need to "make stuff up." In an all-vanilla setup like this, theonlyway town players acquire opinions is by honest reading of the thread. In the course of honest reading of the thread, these town players will make observations which incline them to various opinions about the players in the game.
What I am demanding is that theystate these observations- be they as simple as "this post was slimy". What this allows is forothertown players to repeat these observations, and form their own opinions on them, opinions which are likely to be correlated between players when they are well-founded and based on genuine reading andnotwhen they are not.
Hip is town for being on the CSL wagon. Glow is town for his sensible reads in his last post.
Why does being on the CSL wagon make him town? I can ignore the glowball bit for the moment - I can understand it, even if it is a complete reversal of your statements for the past few pages - but in what way is voting for CSL on page two a marker of towniness?advice from a trans otherkin queer plural system: you don't have to accept what normal says it's possible for you to be.-
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I tried to explain my reasoning in #168, Ellibereth - let me know if there's any part of that that requires elaboration.advice from a trans otherkin queer plural system: you don't have to accept what normal says it's possible for you to be.-
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In post 294, Ellibereth wrote:pack reply to glow's casemathing
then I'll decide
to vote you or hip or csl
though I already have a good idea of who in my head
Casemathing? Are you talking about the L-1 votes? I've placed more L-1 votes than anyone else, but I've placed morevotesthan anyone else - and if you look at L-1 + L-2 votes, I'm in the middle of the pack. It's a statistical anomaly, nothing more.advice from a trans otherkin queer plural system: you don't have to accept what normal says it's possible for you to be.-
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He disagrees with my cases? Help me out, here - I'm looking through glowball's ISO and I'm not finding much else.
(a) If you're wondering why I changed my vote right when he talked to me (#162, "I have a bad feeling about" being his entire case at that point), I have a general rule: whenever someone asks me "why are you doingx?", I translate that to "should you be doingx?" and answer that question instead.
(b) If you're wondering about the contradiction between my dropping an L-1 vote and my not wanting a quick hammer - I'm not afraid of L-1. I didn't want ahammerat just that second, but it wouldn't be a huge problem if we had got one, particularly if (as I believed at that point) there was a reasonable likelihood it would be on scum. In a game where even the newest player was fairly aware of hammer possibilities, I had no fear of an accident, andintentionis likely to be informative. In other words: the cost of a hammer times theriskof a hammer was less than the benefit of the L-1, in my reckoning.
Give me something to work with, here. The last time he gave an explicit case it was for the L-1 thing and that's it.advice from a trans otherkin queer plural system: you don't have to accept what normal says it's possible for you to be.-
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In post 298, Ellibereth wrote:that's your discussion with him
i don't get why I had to be the one to initiate it.
(I'll read through that later, starcraft beckons >.>)
I really didn't care because (a) I thought his case was terrible, (b) I suspected he was just chainsaw-defencing, and (c) I thought I'd answered it to the satisfaction of any reasonable person. So I dropped it. I'm only discussing it now because you were curious.
And seriously? You promise to place your vote after I respond and then jaunt off the moment I do? C'mon, man!advice from a trans otherkin queer plural system: you don't have to accept what normal says it's possible for you to be.-
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- Location: USA: Eastern Time Zone (UTC -5/-4)
I was ISOing, glowball - trying to figure why Empking was voting for me. (Also why you said you were voting for Empking, just in case I'm wrong about you.)
Empking: why townread on glowball?advice from a trans otherkin queer plural system: you don't have to accept what normal says it's possible for you to be.-
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Packbat she, they, ze/zirMafia Scumshe, they, ze/zir
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 2122
- Joined: October 18, 2010
- Pronoun: she, they, ze/zir
- Location: USA: Eastern Time Zone (UTC -5/-4)
In post 331, glowball wrote:Explain how Pack is more town than I am?
I want this explanation, too.advice from a trans otherkin queer plural system: you don't have to accept what normal says it's possible for you to be.-
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Packbat she, they, ze/zirMafia Scumshe, they, ze/zir
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 2122
- Joined: October 18, 2010
- Pronoun: she, they, ze/zir
- Location: USA: Eastern Time Zone (UTC -5/-4)
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Packbat she, they, ze/zirMafia Scumshe, they, ze/zir
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 2122
- Joined: October 18, 2010
- Pronoun: she, they, ze/zir
- Location: USA: Eastern Time Zone (UTC -5/-4)
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Packbat she, they, ze/zirMafia Scumshe, they, ze/zir
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 2122
- Joined: October 18, 2010
- Pronoun: she, they, ze/zir
- Location: USA: Eastern Time Zone (UTC -5/-4)
In post 342, Ellibereth wrote:In post 341, Packbat wrote:Ellibereth, do you have anything to add?
Thread hasn't been open 24 hours.
What the hell is this.
You've been online since day started - I figured you might just be hanging back and cogitating.
Ellibereth wrote:Ok, skimmed once.
Other game first and back.
Pack by far first choice asofar.
That's new - I await your reasoning with bated breath.advice from a trans otherkin queer plural system: you don't have to accept what normal says it's possible for you to be.-
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Packbat she, they, ze/zirMafia Scumshe, they, ze/zir
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 2122
- Joined: October 18, 2010
- Pronoun: she, they, ze/zir
- Location: USA: Eastern Time Zone (UTC -5/-4)
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Packbat she, they, ze/zirMafia Scumshe, they, ze/zir
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 2122
- Joined: October 18, 2010
- Pronoun: she, they, ze/zir
- Location: USA: Eastern Time Zone (UTC -5/-4)
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Packbat she, they, ze/zirMafia Scumshe, they, ze/zir
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 2122
- Joined: October 18, 2010
- Pronoun: she, they, ze/zir
- Location: USA: Eastern Time Zone (UTC -5/-4)
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Packbat she, they, ze/zirMafia Scumshe, they, ze/zir
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 2122
- Joined: October 18, 2010
- Pronoun: she, they, ze/zir
- Location: USA: Eastern Time Zone (UTC -5/-4)
My original case for that partnership was based on these:
Spoiler: #100-104
Spoiler: #144-148
Further data comes with #177, which invokes an imaginary glowball/CSL case which hiplop never raised as his reason why I'm full of it (can you say distancing?); #182-4, glowball protesting too much; #192-#229, glowball being incapable of presenting a case on his main target; #243, glowball answering questions for hiplop (with nonsense, no less); #254, hiplop trying to keep up the impression that he is suspicious of glowball while voting for someone else entirely; #258, glowball posts "whatever" and a hammer on thenot scumwagon; at #282 glowball saying "Packbat is throwing around shit cases" and at #286 that my main target is suddenly scum with Empking - with a vote at #288 for that connection; and, especially, #302, "Packbat, do you still think I am scum?" after he votes hiplop -myfavorite target.
I pegged hiplopbecausehe was so obviously scum with glowball. I was nervous for a moment when you declared suspicion on me that my townread was wrong (I'm a good player to target from scum's perspective), but rereading their mutual ISO, I cannot with any honesty doubt that hiplop/glowball was the scumteam.
VOTE: glowballadvice from a trans otherkin queer plural system: you don't have to accept what normal says it's possible for you to be.-
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Packbat she, they, ze/zirMafia Scumshe, they, ze/zir
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 2122
- Joined: October 18, 2010
- Pronoun: she, they, ze/zir
- Location: USA: Eastern Time Zone (UTC -5/-4)
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Packbat she, they, ze/zirMafia Scumshe, they, ze/zir
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 2122
- Joined: October 18, 2010
- Pronoun: she, they, ze/zir
- Location: USA: Eastern Time Zone (UTC -5/-4)
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Packbat she, they, ze/zirMafia Scumshe, they, ze/zir
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 2122
- Joined: October 18, 2010
- Pronoun: she, they, ze/zir
- Location: USA: Eastern Time Zone (UTC -5/-4)
My case is right here, and it sums up everything I had to present. I'm still waiting for anyone to reply to it. Or, failing that, for anyone to do something worth commenting on.advice from a trans otherkin queer plural system: you don't have to accept what normal says it's possible for you to be.-
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Packbat she, they, ze/zirMafia Scumshe, they, ze/zir
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 2122
- Joined: October 18, 2010
- Pronoun: she, they, ze/zir
- Location: USA: Eastern Time Zone (UTC -5/-4)