Open 389 - Scumhunter's Speed8p, d3

[iamausername]

VOTE: Metabot

feels good man

[iamausername]

Not sure about NS, but I'd say it puts a big scumtarget on Korts.

So, why aren't you voting for Korts?

[iamausername]

@iamausername - because then people would accuse me of OMGUS.

I see.

VOTE: Fat_Tony

[iamausername]

why r u voting fattony?

He claims to think Korts is scum, but he is refraining from voting him because he is worried that doing so will make him look bad.

Evidently he is more interested in not looking bad than he is in trying to lynch scum.

[iamausername]

Also

If you're basing your scum read on me on that, though, you're misguided at best, and deliberately trying to confuse the town at worst. Either way, quit it.

= "you caught me for the wrong reason"

[iamausername]

However, iamausername has now hopped onto two potential wagons - yours in the random voting stage, and now mine.

casting the first random vote in the game = "hopping onto a potential wagon"

that's fucking beautiful

[iamausername]

seriously, i want to frame it and hang it on my wall and sip a glass of scotch while i contemplate it in my smoking jacket

[iamausername]

Metabot seems more like an easily swayed newbie than anything else alignment relevant.

I'm guessing he's an alt of an experienced player affecting an 'ignorant newbie' character for shits and giggles and/or to lull people into a false sense of security, actually. He seemed a little too oblivious from the start, and what Tony has pointed out about his posting style outside of this game being completely different pretty much confirms it.

My vote on iamausername is not OMGUS. Scum already know the alignments of each player in the game (as well you know), and so iamausername-scum would know I'm town. I freely admit I've made some misjudgments so far, but I'm relatively new (again, check my sig and posting history for any confirmation you might need on that front), and for someone with more experience it seems perfectly plausible for a knolwedgeable scum to pick apart these flaws and present them as scumtells. Of course, I have the advantage over other VTs in making this judgment in knowing that I am town, but I appreciate that doesn't constitute a defence. Equally, when I've said that in the past, it's not been for defence purposes, just for information. But anyway, I digress. iamausername's play feels scummy to me, and my vote stands. If you want to call it OMGUS, go ahead, but I don't agree.

"If he was scum, he'd be scum" is not a case, fyi.

It sure would be nice if this 8 player game actually had 8 players.

[iamausername]

Iamausername - I was trying to convey that your play towards me made a damn sight more sense to me through the lens of "iamscum" than "iamtown".

And I was trying to convey that you have entirely failed to convey

why

.

[iamausername]

I propose that with one week deadlines, losing that discussion time would hurt us more than it would hurt scum.

[iamausername]

Did it really take you that long to think about the daychat argument?

This post bothers me a lot. I can't see any reason to ask this besides attempting to create a vague impression that kanye is hiding something.

I recall reading that this setup encourages scum-lurking.

Metabot is lurking.

Therefore,

Vote: Metabot

QED

What's that saying about pots and kettles? What contribution have you made to this game?

Also, why do you single out Metabot when vijay has literally posted nothing, despite being active elsewhere on site?

Iam: what do you think of Kayne and Korts?

kanye has been asking questions of others, but hasn't given much impression of what he actually thinks himself. I would like this to change.

I think Korts is a player that I generally agree with in matters of theory, which makes it very easy for him to look town to me. That said, he looks town to me.

What do

you

think of Kanye and Korts?

[iamausername]

Now that we've established that Katsuki isn't reading the game fully, we can lynch his sorry ass.

unvote

Vote: Katsuki

Well, if we're lynching people for not reading the game fully...

IAAU: I went strictly with time from last post; at the time of my post, Meta was the oldest.

There had been plenty of discussion about vijay's absence when you decided to vote Metabot for lurking. Anyone reading the thread fully couldn't possibly have missed it.

UNVOTE: Fat_Tony
VOTE: Nobody Special

[iamausername]

I don't care. 128 is a very good post.

Phone-posting, but will check in the morning how many votes NS has made compared to how many (non-total-fluff) posts he's made. Such vote hopping tickles my scumdar delightfully.

Normally I roll my eyes at charges of "vote hopping", because there's nothing particularly scummy about changing your mind as to who most deserves your vote. But when the votes are as shallow and hypocritical as Nobody Special's have been, that's another matter entirely.

Really, I don't understand why nobody else seems to be bothered by this.

[iamausername]

I've played with Nobody Special at least once before and I don't remember him being this wilfully obstructionist to productive discussion and even if he was, I am not feeling in a mood to give passes for deliberately playing against a town win condition to anyone even if they've done so as town in the past.

If we don't expect everyone to be able to justify how their posts are aiding the pursuit of scum then there's no fucking point in playing the game, frankly.

[iamausername]

vijay, it really helps if you pay attention to who is saying things.

[iamausername]

I can't work out which of kanye and katsuki is scum, but I have this sneaky feeling one of them is.

If kanye was scum, he'd have hammered when you were at L-1. The only way he's scum is if you are too.

VOTE: Korts

Process of elimination. I just can't see a plausible pairing that doesn't include him.

[iamausername]

Fill me in on this.

Vote count, circa post 50:

Iamausername (1): FAT_TONY
FAT_TONY (4): KORTS, NOBODY SPECIAL, IAMAUSERNAME, Metabot

NOT VOTING (3): DESTRUCTOR(Katsuki) , VIJAY2VASANDANI, Kanyeknowsbest

kanye cannot be scum with anyone but Tony, because, per Post 48, he would have hammered here. Don't give me any "Oh, that's WIFOM" bullshit. Kaynescum would have hammered.

His options are: 1) hammer a townie on page three before two players (including at least one scum partner) have posted anything at all, kill self, game is now 4:2 nightless and town are pretty screwed.

2) Point out that scum could do this, in the hope that this will score him town points he can redeem at a later date, even though it won't score him town points because people on this site love to believe that scum will do ridiculous shit that plays against their win condition because it might score them town points, even though it won't score them town points, because etc.

---

Vote count at end of day:

FAT_TONY (2): Metabot, Nobody Special
Korts (1): katsukiknowsbest
NOBODY SPECIAL (5): Kanyeknowsbest, IAMAUSERNAME, FAT_TONY, Korts, VIJAY2VASANDANI

Both Katsuki and Metabot posted in between Korts' L-1 vote and vijay's hammer. I find it extremely unlikely that NS was piled on by four townies and that two scum members with the opportunity to hammer at this point decided not to take it. Katsuki/Metabot pair can be ruled out.

We're left with:

Kanye/Tony
Katsuki/Tony
Metabot/Tony
Korts/Tony
Korts/Metabot
Korts/Katsuki

As you may have noticed, there is no pair here that doesn't include one or the other (or both) of Korts and Tony.

And Tony has basically been slowly eroding my scumread on him since around the point I stopped voting him, but especially in light of vijay's flip. Their exchange after vijay finally deigned to make an appearance does not read as fake to me. I'm seeing vijay going for the easy target a lot more than I'm seeing vijay bussing there.

So, if Tony's not scum, Kanye's not scum, and Metabot and Katsuki aren't scum together, that leaves Korts.

The lack of town discussion brought by kanyescum hammering Tony at that point would not have been any great benefit to him when considering the heavy suspicion it would have drawn. And I don't consider kanye to be a disposable player to serve at his team's pleasure like that.

Really? You don't think kanye would take the hit to bring us to a straight 4:2 nightless game where we have absolutely nothing to go on as a starting point for reading two players, at least one of whom is scum with him?

I'd do it. Wouldn't you?

Do you think kanye is scum?

[iamausername]

Do you agree with my logic for dismissing the Katsuki/Metabot pairing, though?

[iamausername]

Why did they kill vijay? He was the one to hammer.

...why are you asking, when you already know the answer? Or are you saying that vijay's hammer was a reason

not

to kill him?

Just by reading, I feel as if Iams and Korts are town.

Who's scum then?

[iamausername]

just want to quote the entire last page and say how hes arguing with kats like he knows kats is town but votes him anyways

Not seeing this, could you be more specific?

Sorry, I derped on the Vijay kill, never played this game before and got the rules mixed up with something else. Don't worry, won't happen again.

Could you explain in more detail what you thought happened with the Vijay kill?

I don't understand:

Why it matters that we posted in between Korts' L-1 vote and vijay's hammer

It means you definitely had the opportunity to hammer and didn't take it.

This is strange. From the context, if Kayne was not scum, then katsuki would be.. but he doesn't address that and instead votes Korts. Explain this to me, please.

I don't understand what context you're talking about that would make katsuki scum, so I'm not sure what you want me to explain. Kanye's alignment has no particular bearing on katsuki's alignment? Obviously? What am I missing here?

Also I'd appreciate if we didn;t hunt by living pairings but rather individuals first.

feelin' korts/katsuki here

[iamausername]

@IAUN - I referred to having the feeling that one or other of kanye or Katsuki was town. Maybe that's what Metabot was referring to.

Oh yeah, that makes sense.

[iamausername]

Could you explain in more detail what you thought happened with the Vijay kill?

I thought vijay was a towny. There wasn't any written indication in the post (not that I remember) so I thought they killed him as a towny... then I remembered that this has weird gamerules.

Yep, I'll buy it. Metabot is town.

So? I could have been scum who wanted another more scummy scum, to hammer and be killed.

That's why I didn't say that you and Katsuki were town, just that you weren't BOTH scum, since I severely doubt that both scum would do this AND four townies would vote for another townie without any scum involvement.

The thing is... we're in the game enough where we have one scum dead and (in my mind) a couple of relatively clear townies. We also have some VERY strong association tells from the game mechanic. It doesn't make sense NOT to look for them.

Indeed. I think the reason Katsuki is saying this is because he realises that there's no viable partner for Tony here, and he doesn't want us to think too hard about that.

I don't understand what about korts is scummy. Someone explain to me the case on Korts.

The case on Korts is that you, kanye and Tony are all town, and there are two scum left.
(Previously it was that kanye and Tony are town, and you and Katsuki aren't scum together.)

We should be on katsuki, I think.

I'm game.

[iamausername]

well that was predictable

[iamausername]

So now that you understand my question, would you kindly answer it?

I was pointing out to Tony that from his point of view, kanye should be obvious town. I wasn't agreeing with him that one of kanye and katsuki had to be scum. I had no particular view of his opinion on katsuki at that time.

The Korts vote did not follow directly from the previous sentence in the post; it was a separate thought. Imagine a page break between them, if you like.

Unfortunately, I don't know you're town, so I'm still thinking korts is more towny than you (for aforementioned reasons). You should probably give me any other reasons you think Korts is scum, because if not, I'm probably coming after you if katsuki flips scum.

Well, if we're dealing with a hypothetical future where we have lynched Katsuki and he has flipped scum, I would point out that Korts has been pushing for a Tony lynch over a Katsuki lynch today, while I have not been doing that.

But, you know, how about we cross that bridge when we come to it? Right now, we need to work on convincing kanye that he is wrong, or Tony is going to be deadline lynched.

Guys, do you understand why tony is probably town?

I know my answer to this question, but what's yours?

[iamausername]

unvote

Hey, Tony, if we both vote Katsuki now, he'll be the new deadline lynch and we can all have a good laugh about this post:

I love this seniority rule because it means we can just sit here, do nothing and have tony lynch go through regardless.

Wouldn't that be fun?

UNVOTE: Korts
VOTE: Katsuki

[iamausername]

@Nuwen:

You seem to have switched my vote with Tony's in that count.

[iamausername]

@IAUN - not gonna switch my vote, I'm done vote hopping. If kanye and Katsuki want a mislynch, they can do it if they want.

ಠ_ಠ

why do i bother

[iamausername]

no i just think it would be funny

You're voting for Korts. Why do you think he just unvoted you, if he's scum?

[iamausername]

Instead, his post 203 addresses Metabot's borderline irrelevant question about vijay's death

he asks for specifics from Metabot again on a marginal point

uh, this 'borderline irrelevant' 'marginal' point was a massive townslip from metabot that the questions were aimed at (and succesful in) confirming

good posting otherwise

ps. tony, make this game more eventful by hammering Katsuki, tia

[iamausername]

The thing is... we're in the game enough where we have one scum dead and (in my mind) a couple of relatively clear townies. We also have some VERY strong association tells from the game mechanic. It doesn't make sense NOT to look for them.

Indeed. I think the reason Katsuki is saying this is because he realises that there's no viable partner for Tony here, and he doesn't want us to think too hard about that.

I think this post made it clear enough.

[iamausername]

I love this seniority rule because it means we can just sit here, do nothing and have tony lynch go through regardless.

[iamausername]

I've been BLEEDING PROACTIVE FUCKING TOWNINESS ALL FUCKING GAME LONG

[iamausername]

Guess I'll read through the thread one more time. Pretty sure it's Tony/Korts, with a very slight possibility of Tony/Kanye but, y'know, lylo, due dilligence, etc.

[iamausername]

@_@

ffffffffffffffffff

[iamausername]

Maybe have some sort of mechanism to make it easier for scum to get town lynched, at the cost of making them look scummy. That way, scum would usually be able to avoid being forced into white-flag zone, but how much they want to reduce that risk is balanced by the mechanism making them look scummy.

This mechanism already exists; it's called 'not bussing'.

I think the setup is fine, I'd happily play it again.

p.s. damn good job scum.