Open 389 - Scumhunter's Speed8p, d3

[Metabot]

Hi NS I guess you know me so this doesn't apply to you at all but im new here d Im really bad at mafia but thats okay i'm trying to learn so hi guys

what I dilike about this setup is that it seems so scumsided can you guys explain to me why its not?

anyway im vote myself caues think its cool to vote myself i mean i dnot know if any of the other people scum so i don't feel okay with voting them so yeah.I also dont ike rvs at all i think its really stupid so maybe if there anothr way to get out discussion we could try???

VOTE: METABOT

[Metabot]

hey iams why r u votin me u don't know anyting bout me so why?

[Metabot]

yeah i think iams and the otherg uy voted for me are prettyscummy i mean they seem pretty stupid reason random voting.

why r u voting fattony?

[Metabot]

yeah i guss i understand

also guys, i'm really derpy so if you see a me scumslip then my bad dont take it seriously. like sometimes as cop i fos my clears and things like that so im sorry but yeah.

[Metabot]

i think fat is scum cause he seems to be takling a lot but scumhunting little.

like, look at his lat 6 posts only useful said is "okay i guess i'm scummy. hi metabot why don't u do stuff? and lots of random fluff"
isnt putting alot of fluff/information but no analyses a scumtell?

can we hammer/lcnh toiny now?
VOTE: Fat_Tony

[Metabot]

Nope, doing it intentionally. I was trying to act noob-scummy and see if I could get a wagon on me, just to get us more out of RVS. And because I did it before, didn't get caught, and could have drawn comparisons between scum in that game and players in this one.

That being said, Fat_Tony's reaction (the only one I really got) seemed kind of scummy. Not only because of the leading question, but it seemed pretty clear that he suspected me, but never mentioned the words "scum" "scummy" or "suspicious" -> what I found out from the analyses of aforementinoed previous game.

I'm V/LA (I'm posting a bit, but no garuntees since I'm in the east coast now visiting colleges).

[Metabot]

* the meta change not the lurking XP

I think katsuke's town, actually. And actually, after rereading Tony's wall it reads like town too.
I totally dont' believe in the "he seems like he's pretending to be newbie" thingy because I still think I'm pretty bad at this game even after completing a couple of games.

Iam: what do you think of Kayne and Korts?
NS: Have have anything more useful to say? Discussion rousing statements, for instance? I thought you'd be more useful, tbh

And.. I forgot to unvote. UNVOTE: Metabot

[Metabot]

NS: I don't think its gotten to the point where you should be attempting to ensure your own survival at night at the cost of town discussion. Furthermore, since we don't know if you're town or scum, you're even less entitled to that strat. Nor are there any PRs.

I'll be expecting something out of you soon.

Kayne: post 48 doesn't sound genuine to me, post 71 sounds kinda towny (I doubt scum would say something like that, or think of saying something like that to sound towny). All in all, relatively towny.

kurts: Case looks genuine, pushing when appropriate. Also kinda towny.

I've also got a townyread on that other K guy.

[Metabot]

And basically, Iam and Tony need to start staring into each other's eyes.

[Metabot]

And basically, Iam and Tony need to start staring into each other's eyes.

Apologies for being slow, but I don't understand what you're meaning by this statement. Could you perhaps rephrase it in such a way that simpletons like myself can understand?

More than half both of your posts are on each other... what about other people? Even if one of you is right about the other being maf, there's still another maf to find.

Its too early to get tunnel vision, in other words.

[Metabot]

I think Metabot is suggesting a budding romance between the two of you.

Are you saying you think we're scumbuds?

[Metabot]

Katsuki: so basically... that was an orchestrated test?

Explain the reasoning/mechanics behind it please.

Oh, and my townread on you was based on the fact that it was genuine, so you're null to me now.

[Metabot]

So could you tell me why kort's response is scummy? (not that I think he is undeserving or deserving of the accusation, I just simply don't understand it and you didn't elaborate)

[Metabot]

I'm at bulldog days.

Ns is doing worse than I thought. Not sure if scummy or just... doing some advanced tactics.

[Metabot]

Apparantly i'm a pairing now.

Just got back from hometown, I'll post tomorrow after school.

[Metabot]

... oh, no I'm not. Was scanning too fast.

Actually just something really quick:

I've seen an exclusive town wagon on cop confirm before, so using VCA that way might be a little dangerous. Make sure to incude context.

Kaynye's reasoning for katsuki confirmed town is likely not as good as he makes out. I'll need to investigate further

[Metabot]

A couple of things:

Why did they kill vijay? He was the one to hammer.

Just by reading, I feel as if Iams and Korts are town. Whats the case on Korts?

[Metabot]

Sorry, I've been loosing focus on this game. Time to get back on track.

[Metabot]

Rereading through:

My read on Iam and Korts is largely what some people might call I gutread, and a weak one at that. I can try to dig something more specific out (I'm pretty sure I HAD somethign specific, but I don't remember exactly what I was thinking at the time)

Sorry, I derped on the Vijay kill, never played this game before and got the rules mixed up with something else. Don't worry, won't happen again.

Okay, so I'm not really liking Fat_Tony atm. So after that quick readthrough, I find it weird how he finds Korts to be likely scum, yet refuses to vote him because he will be called out for OMGUS. This looks like attention-fearing scum. Then when the wagon doesn't gain any steam, his next two or so posts have Korts as enthusiastic town.

His post regarding Metabot's hammer seems a little over the top. Personally I thought that it was a reaction test more than anything, and his reaction seemed a little scared for lack of a better word. Then he proceeds to jump on the easy bandwagon. All in all a good place for my vote imo.

VOTE: Fat_Tony

In hindsight, this was a particularly scummy post from vijay... trying to ride the tony wagon forward. I really really don't think this is a bus. He's a strong townread.

Yeah, I didn't really understand the game before. Scum can hammer as scummily as they want, since they can just kill their own the day after. I don't understand why people didn't push me on this issue earlier, since N-1 is effectively hammering in this setup. Which also means that this:

yah so someone needs to unvote right fucking now. we have 3 people that havent posted yet and youre putting someone at L-1 already. assuming tony is town scum can quickhammer him at no loss (since they can just kill that scum member tonight) and if he is scum then theres no need to rush into this lynch so quickly (though i do love speed lynches, this isnt a setup that will allow it)

Means Kayne has a strong townread as well.

Something interesting.. on page three, Korts unvotes Tony on Kayne's suggestion, but continues to push. Might be preparing to rejump on wagon once someone votes.

Katsuki is kind of towny for doing that "daychat" thing. Same with korts. I just can't imagine scum being that comfortable using a possibly scummy argument to push on someone else. WIFOM or not, I don't think its as likely as town doing it.

Korts really needs to explain this:

I'm under the impression that NS is more apathetic than malicious, and I'm wondering if that's just his default modus operandi. Has anyone here played with him before? What's his play normally like?

Seriously?VOTE: Nobody SpecialL-1, people.

But whatever he explains it, pretty sure its a towny thing. Advocating AGAINST a lynch while putting your vote on it makes absolutely no sense as scum.

I don't understand:

Both Katsuki and Metabot posted in between Korts' L-1 vote and vijay's hammer. I find it extremely unlikely that NS was piled on by four townies and that two scum members with the opportunity to hammer at this point decided not to take it. Katsuki/Metabot pair can be ruled out.We're left with:Kanye/TonyKatsuki/TonyMetabot/TonyKorts/TonyKorts/MetabotKorts/Katsuki

Why it matters that we posted in between Korts' L-1 vote and vijay's hammer

Okay, I kind of realize now that pretty much all of this already has been analyzed and stuff >.>

So basically, I've got strong townreads on Tony, Korts, and Kayne. That means I'm going for Katsuki and Iam. I'll do an iso and write up a case on both later.


Katsuki has a point about Tony.. beginning to rethink my read on him. I'd hate to have to do that, that would fuck up a lot of my other reads. Guys, is it possible that Vijay was trying to bus Tony? Is that within his skill/confidence level? I think, while he would be able to do that, he wouldn't do that because he wouldn't take the initiative.

Yeah, I can't remember why I gave them townreads earlier xP. Sorry, in that time period I had like 10 hours of sleep over three days, with the flight/jetlag/things to do. I'm trusting myself that it was grounded somehow.

Let me check some things and I'll vote. My korts townread is independent, my Kayne read is very strongly implied from tony read, which is not as strong but still pretty strong. If I'm wrong with Tony, than Iams is not, kayne might be.

Oh wow, just caught this... lookit:

oh yeah. i was gonna write a post about tony and forgot about him when i was thinking about everyone else.

im pretty worried at how quickly he went from iamausername is scum! to backing off of him due to my prodding. hes now safely jumped onto the player who hasnt posted at all (not that scummy on its own, but it feels like hes using it as an escape.) his reactions to the early pressure were not good and korts raised some valid points about his emotional tactics and i agree greatly with iamausernames original point on him (re: he didnt want to appear to be omgusing)

Yeah. I wonder why he forgot. Kayne: can you explain?

[Metabot]

tldr:

Iams needs to explain that part I quoted above.
Korts needs to explain why he flipped onto the NS lynch.
Kayne needs to explain why he forgot Tony.

Otherwise being, Korts is likely town, Kayne/tony are linked but probably town, leaving Kayne/Tony or Katsuki/Iams.

Katsuki/Iams is interesting:

Vote: TonyHis opening post of the day was bad. No indication of any willingness to pressure his presumed "top scum read" in IAUN, but rather to hop onto the Korts-scum camp. The rest just involves looking at his progression of reads today.

If these posts don't mean "I think IAUN is scum", then I am quite curious as to what they mean.If he is the person you keep repeatedly mentioning is scum, I assume it would be because you think he is scum.

An exceptionally strange form of chainsaw defense where you vote the person who is suspicious of your partner and comment on how he's not pushing on your partner hard enough.

Iams is similar chainsaw:

Now that we've established that Katsuki isn't reading the game fully, we can lynch his sorry ass.

unvote
Vote: Katsuki

Well, if we're lynching people for not reading the game fully...
VOTE: Nobody Special

I can't work out which of kanye and katsuki is scum, but I have this sneaky feeling one of them is.

If kanye was scum, he'd have hammered when you were at L-1. The only way he's scum is if you are too.

VOTE: Korts

Process of elimination. I just can't see a plausible pairing that doesn't include him.

This is strange. From the context, if Kayne was not scum, then katsuki would be.. but he doesn't address that and instead votes Korts. Explain this to me, please.

[Metabot]

And that, Ladies and Gentlemen, is how to catch up on a game.

[Metabot]

So um can you sum up your thoughts?

I didn't write all that crap if I wanted to skimp by with just a summary. Not wanting to write something like that is understandable, not wanting to read it is just lazy xP

Also I'd appreciate if we didn;t hunt by living pairings but rather individuals first. I've seen many times the path hunting via pairs leads and would rather not head down that this game.

The thing is... we're in the game enough where we have one scum dead and (in my mind) a couple of relatively clear townies. We also have some VERY strong association tells from the game mechanic. It doesn't make sense NOT to look for them.

Anyway... I like metabots catchup, and have nothing more to add. It is a drag always being incorrectly suspected, it makes the game unfun. But I guess that's the fault of my play style rather than anything else.

I think the other pairing is more likely. I'm not going to vote you until I think about it more. Yeah, you should get used to being suspected (not because of your meta) but thats just how the way this game works.

NS was being ridiculously unhelpful, and Day 1 in this setup allows for anti-town policy lynches--the outcome of a lynch, regardless of the faction lynched, is a 4:2 Day 2 with one townie and one scum dead.

Yeah, I know, but it just seemed your viewpoint flipped. You were advocating for him just the post before.

Could you explain in more detail what you thought happened with the Vijay kill?

I thought vijay was a towny. There wasn't any written indication in the post (not that I remember) so I thought they killed him as a towny... then I remembered that this has weird gamerules.

It means you definitely had the opportunity to hammer and didn't take it.

So? I could have been scum who wanted another more scummy scum, to hammer and be killed. I don't really get how you came up with your pairings.

[Metabot]

Nope, not hammering tony.

I don't understand what about korts is scummy. Someone explain to me the case on Korts.

We should be on katsuki, I think.

Guys, do you understand why tony is probably town?

[Metabot]

That's why I didn't say that you and Katsuki were town, just that you weren't BOTH scum, since I severely doubt that both scum would do this AND four townies would vote for another townie without any scum involvement.

AHHHH. Makes more sense now. Sorry that took so long.

Indeed. I think the reason Katsuki is saying this is because he realises that there's no viable partner for Tony here, and he doesn't want us to think too hard about that.

How about kayne? Did you read my analyses?

Except that you're that VIABLE WITH BRIGHT NEON LIGHTS partner.

How is Iams a partner with Tony? Explain.

Iams: so you're saying you're good with Katsuki lynch? Hmmm...

@IAUN - I referred to having the feeling that one or other of kanye or Katsuki was town. Maybe that's what Metabot was referring to.

Oh yeah, that makes sense.

So now that you understand my question, would you kindly answer it?

Hrm, your reason for thinking korts makes sense to me (from your pov, assuming you're town, you know you're town). Unfortunately, I don't know you're town, so I'm still thinking korts is more towny than you (for aforementioned reasons). You should probably give me any other reasons you think Korts is scum, because if not, I'm probably coming after you if katsuki flips scum.

[Metabot]

I know my answer to this question, but what's yours?

I mentioned it previously in my wall.

And yeah, I'm mainly saying this because in my opinion Tony's lynch is not as justified as katsuki's, its not directed specifically at you.

[Metabot]

VOTE: Katsuki

[Metabot]

Rereading through:

Okay, so I'm not really liking Fat_Tony atm. So after that quick readthrough, I find it weird how he finds Korts to be likely scum, yet refuses to vote him because he will be called out for OMGUS. This looks like attention-fearing scum. Then when the wagon doesn't gain any steam, his next two or so posts have Korts as enthusiastic town.

His post regarding Metabot's hammer seems a little over the top. Personally I thought that it was a reaction test more than anything, and his reaction seemed a little scared for lack of a better word. Then he proceeds to jump on the easy bandwagon. All in all a good place for my vote imo.

VOTE: Fat_Tony

In hindsight, this was a particularly scummy post from vijay... trying to ride the tony wagon forward. I really really don't think this is a bus. He's a strong townread.

Okay, so game just began, we're on page 5 or something, and there's a wagon on tony. The wagon's nearly at N-1. Vijay, who seems kind of out of it (and was out of it) rereads and then puts his vote on Tony.

Looking at his preformance so far, it just doesn't seem likely Vijay was the kind of person to go and BUS his partner at an early stage when it was plausible it would get his partner lynched. Yes he might have thought that nobody would hammer because he's scum, but more likely than not, that post and vote were because vijay is simply opportunistic scum going for easy-target town.

Put yourself in vijay's shoes. Would you have started your game by increasing the wagon on a fairly lynch-able scumbuddy? Buses don't come naturally to scummies, they need to be thought out, reasoned out. I don't normally see people bussing just for the hell of it.

Now explain to me why katsuki is town.

[Metabot]

We've been over why Kayne is town enough already. Basically, its a pro/cons relationship. If he was scum, he could either hammer, have us start on 4v2 mountanous nonight with practically no information, or let tony live and get some towny points and hope that the next wagon goes well.

The first choice is much more likely, but wasn't the one that happened. :. he's not scum.

What do you think about my analyses, Korts?

[Metabot]

Are you serious guys...

Tony is pretty freaking towny. What about my analyses do you DISAGREE with?

I feel like I'm speaking to a wall.

[Metabot]

I don't know if katsuki would have hammered NS as scum, maybe thats why vijay did it. He might not have sat on the korts wagon because his previous play didn't match up with that. Yeah, my case on katsuki is mostly POI, but still... you're saying that vijay just happened to realize he was playing the game to bus his partner...? Well, I guess the afk could have been faked too. Damn, if this is true, he's way more pro than I thought him to be.

Also, please don't call me meatbot

[Metabot]

Ehhhhhhh... maybe you're right kayne, I went through his meta and it might match up more with his play than I thought from this games preformance. I still don't think its that likely.

Which is weird because I'm thinking tony and kayne are buds if anything.. and if kayne knows that tony will flip scum, then he knows I'll be coming after him next. (and I think many of will be too). Another reason why they're probably not scum, because kayne can only be scum if tony is, and if kayne wants tony to be lynched, then it would be suicidal.

But, it seems as if no one believes me.

[Metabot]

Wait, so I'm scummy now because I built a case and completely turned the wagon from Tony to Katsuki? If I was scum I'd have either hammer tony, advocated for tony lynch, or simply do nothing. I think there is a decent case on Katsuki regarldess. Katsuki, you gotta admit, you are one of the spotlights of today's lynch.

However, that being said, Kort's post looked opportunistic to me... It also tipped over the wagon. Katsuki's response sounded pretty towny to me, in the way that he's mostly caring about stuff AFTER his death. Either I gave korts a premature townread, or katsuki can just act really well.

Heres' the thing about kortsscum though: why would he have bothered to make a case on Katsuki? It would make more sense if he just played indecisive and let the tony lynch go through. (assuming tony is town)

Anyway, to organize my thoughts: (points are arbitrary and used for comparing only)
inf: scum is within: Kats/Kayne/Korts/Iams/Tony
7: Tony is town (from vijay interaction)
10: If Tony town, then Kayne town (otherwise, kayne would hammer)
4: Korts is town (because of previous behavior)
8: Korts is town if Tony is town (otherwise korts would just let tony be lynched, but instead he created wagon on katsuki)
7: If Korts is scum, then Kats is town (otherwise korts would have beeen moving wagon on scumbuddy)
2: Iams is town if Kats is scum (because of vote)
0: Kats is town if Iams is scum (kats is pushing on iams, but obviously if kats filps scum, his case is invalid)

If Kats turns out to be scum, then Iams/Korts is possible, but I'll be looking more into Tony/kayne. Korts might be bussing Kats, Vijay might have bussed tony, Kats/Iams might be bussing (and I think they are)

[Metabot]

Ohhhh, yeah sorry missed it. Makes more sense now. Sorry, you had some relatively fluffy posts so I skimmed a couple of them.

Yeah, I suppose in hindsight that first paragraph looks like OMGUS, but really, I don't think people are scum necessarily because they're on your wagon. You are a valid lynch today, and I don't think I'm "misled." If you found some BS reasoning that someone stated for the reason to be on your wagon, thats a different story...

[Metabot]

His behavior on the NS wagon didn't really make sense as scum. Normally you either see scum voting for somoone to get them lynched, or the more tricky ones will either advocate for the lynch without being on it, or advocate AGAINST alternative lynches to get that lynch. Korts though, was giving a conservative opinion on the lynch, but put his vote on it anyway.

You decrease the likelyhood of the wagon going, and you're blamed for the lynch if it goes badly. I don't see the scum motivation in doing this.

This is less of a strong read than my read on tony, but thats find because its very likely Korts is town if Tony is.

[Metabot]

VOTE: Korts

[Metabot]

those awkward moments when you and your scummybuddy are the most towny in the game.

:highfive:

o/

[Metabot]

yeeee! :3

yeah, if kayne hammered, then he would have had to killed himself, and I don't think me and vijay would have done that well.

[Metabot]

Its definitely worth playing again. If someone is running it again, I'm going to join that game.

As for constructive criticism, I'm really not qualified to say something like that. Its not swingy, but scum does get a pretty bad disadvantage from getting one lynched d1... if there's association tells with EITHER, then its gg.

Anyway, I think its only a problem if theres more than one scum that is pretty bad. If there's one really bad scum, then it could be a problem too, becuase having that one guy die d1 and give tells on the other two would suck. Scum should really try hard to kill a towny d1. However, with the effective minority vote on town being a lynch (because scum can quicklynch) it works out in the end.

Maybe have some sort of mechanism to make it easier for scum to get town lynched, at the cost of making them look scummy. That way, scum would usually be able to avoid being forced into white-flag zone, but how much they want to reduce that risk is balanced by the mechanism making them look scummy.

[Metabot]

Why not Teambot? </3

Also yeah, sorry about the QT thing. I really need to read the gamerules more carefully. xP