Open 391 - Theft on Cookie Island - Town Wins

[Rainbowdash]

unvote

Skim incoming

[Rainbowdash]

Oh awesome... nopony told me the game restarted and I could skip the first five pages...

FD attacking prob-town Amrun early is pretty bad, so it ACRV ignoring it in place of RVS. ACRV continues to look bad, FD may just be a little derpy and not understand how town reads actually work

Chrimi voting OOTN for calling Amrun town is really bad. Actually leapfrogs AcRv

The Thomith-GNR exchange is interesting since neither are too involved in the debate over Chrimi, but seem to just be discussing theory or something. Look for one of them to be scum if Chrimi is

Chrimi is taking his ball and going home... surprised he isnt dead yet. Odd part is what AcRv is doing... its like he supports the wagon on Chrimi but he really doesnt. That need explaining.

lol ponies... never knew that was a topic of discussion. Pinkie Pie swear it.

PM is wrong but I think town from his catchup post.

Heilograph is off, so is sando coming in and calling just about everypony scummy. Especially the fact that he doesnt vote his top scum read because they are near lynch.

Thomith cashes in all his town points with the OOTN vote

I swear this entire game is just half of you trying to convince me as to why you need to die over eachother. Stop it.

Ugh... FD really is looking like Derpy town off post 321

381-384

*twitch*

*twitch*

Oh well... im caught up and feeling confused for the most part.

Vote Heilograph

I would vote OOTN over FD pretty quickly as 381-384 is contradictory in nature.

Heilo is looking most like scum, I would be sorta ok with a sando and chirmi wagon too.

[Rainbowdash]

OOOH!

Heilo may have scumslipped pending what setup this is!

He explicitly calls for three scum in 280. I need to think about this.

If there are two scum, he is confirmed town in my book. If there are three he is the lynch.

[Rainbowdash]

Think think think think think

Ok cop claim or not on the plan I had before I replaced in but decided it would just descend into semantics arguements.

Cop claims

Both JKs at night roll a 1d3, if they roll 1, they protect cop, if anything else they try and block a kill or whatever, 44% chance cop goes unprotected, so probably not worth it for scum to take the shot at them. With a "no cop" setup probably clearing Helio though, it may be worth going through on this one. We will see though.

@mod

- If JK A protects JK B, does JK B action go through?

Im still trying to figure out if I just caught scum or town. I want to say scum, and if thats true WOW do we have a hoof up on scum.

[Rainbowdash]

hmm

Ok I will need to look at the AcRv part then.

I still think Helio is scum though, although with AcRv is somewhat unlikely. I do think it makes Helio more likely to be town still if there are just two scum, which is why I have an issue with just flat out lynching him. If there are two scum, its a townslip and not a scumslip.

Maybe im jumping the gun on this one a bit... because it went something like

-Helio calls three ponies scum
-AcRv asks if those three are all scum together
-Helio gets all vauge (read - other reason Helio is scum) but calls for three scum

I dont think Helio makes the play he did as scum with only two scum either way though, so if there are two he is probably town, and it give AcVc town points to boot.

Situation is odd since it rests on if a cop actually exists or not.

[Rainbowdash]

I agree that it's certainly not cut and dry, but not sure how you hope to determine if there's a cop without cop claiming, which is a horrible idea.

Not necessarily.

As I said, playing a RNG game forces scum to make the hard choices

1d2 is 25% cop is open
1d3 is 44% cop is open
1d4 is 56% cop is open

Its more of a gambling move, but even if we drop the cop N1 we know what setup we are dealing with along with scum. I think given all of that its an acceptable move to make, since if we get lucky at all we are going to be dominating scum.

Reckless? Maybe, but when you think of the amount of insight it can potentially give us on Helio and AcRv im willing to bite on it.

What im NOT willing to do is lynch Helio if there are just two scum.

[Rainbowdash]

Why can't we just do that Day 2 so we can guarantee at least one result (probably)?

Because if there is no cop Helio is probably town.

I could go with OOTN who looks a lot like scum WITH Helio I guess, but im not even close to as happy doing that. If its something like Helio-OOTN-sando that would be awesome.

[Rainbowdash]

Actuallly hah.

HAHAHAHA

Oh this is TOO rich. OOTN is sorta in the same boat as Helio in assuming there are three scum in 384.

Man I need to do some serious data mining here.

Change of plans

unvote
Vote OOTN

Its about claim time.

[Rainbowdash]

Yeah its weaker but im in a fun mood, he works with Helio

really

well, and if we arent having a cop claim, im not going to even touch Helio today. Im that confident in the pony being town if there are just two scum.

[Rainbowdash]

Also acceptable.

[Rainbowdash]

Alright, I can do this.

Vote Chrimi

I just think FD doesnt understand a few major aspects of how the game works on certain levels so is coming off wierd. His insistance over a few key points makes me think he is probably town though, as so much makes next to no logical sense, but really wouldnt aid scum to push.

[Rainbowdash]

Actually no

If my reads are half right chrimi is probably town by association

Vote Thomith

Change places!

[Rainbowdash]

Why Thomith? I don't see it.

Good mix of

1) I am looking for somepony I dont see as town that works with Helio
2) I was town in one of Thomiths early games (and bailed him out as town), this does not at all feel like town-Thomith from that one

GNR may also be a good wagon if we are going to put Helio off until tomorrow. GNR, Thomith, OOTN... somepony from that group is going down if I have anything to say about it.

I just have this strong "not town" read coming from Thomith so I am voting him here. I would go back to OOTN if I cant get anything else going, and may just do it either way. Im bouncing around a whole lot and want to do something different every time I refresh the page.

[Rainbowdash]

unvote

I think I need to just step back from this as my mouth and mind are in a race to see who can do something first. Once they start working in tandem I should have something better.

@Amun/FD/PM - Who should I vote?

[Rainbowdash]

RD seems null atm.

Okay so who is scum.

Why do you want a Thomith wagon? What happened to wanting a FD wagon?

I could still do a OOTN lynch here.

Vote OOTN

Wagon movement yay

[Rainbowdash]

@RD: Have you not read my posts at all? My top scumreads are Thomith FuDuzn and GNR. I can settle for a wagon on either.

Well which is MOST scummy then? You never really showed a whole lot of interest in voting Thomith until I came in and poked at that wagon.

[Rainbowdash]

Uh, yes I did. My order is Thomith, FuDuzn then GNR.

How come you never voted Thomith then?

Oh yeah, nice avoiding of my questions in my earlier post too, still waiting on answers for them.

You mean the "why am I scum with Helio?" one? Long story short, he makes lots of small comments calling you scum but constantly is finding reasons to push somepony else.

[Rainbowdash]

Yeah I kinda saw that one coming from that one chain of posts.

Why did you try to get into a 1v1 against not your top suspect if you are a PR?

unvote

[Rainbowdash]

Because I figured claiming a PR when near lynch would stop people from lynching me and lynch my scumread.

Still... why did you try and do that against FD and not Thomith?

[Rainbowdash]

VOTE: heliograph

Eyup. Its time to

Vote Heliograph

[Rainbowdash]

This Heliowagon is distracting.

Let's not be distracted.

Please enlighten me on a simplified FD case then. Best point I see on him is that I like the recent wagon on him for the most part assuming OOTN town

[Rainbowdash]

well, i view it like this, if i was cop . and town lynched someone. if town lynched scum .. and i investigated someone, if they turned up scum ... wouldn't you claim cop ? knowing that mafia has one person left.
However, the idea of recruiting only makes things more complicated.

Wha.....?

Lots of conditionals going on here. This is a really wierd response to a wagon on you too.

While you are here though

im kinda thinking that the whole Chrimi and AcRv is a setup , to distract us now.
i mean why go back and forth over the same thing?

Why do you think that they are both scum in this situation instead of town-town or town-scum? Is there actually scum tells they are committing or is this just a general blanket of "distracting, so scum"

but i like my vote. However Nom , your always acting sneaky... its just who you are. so you could be scum... and no one would ever know.

This is really fence sitting (and main reason I saw/see you-OOTN as valid partners)

You really have done zero scumhunting though, and instead just keep agreeing with anypony else who calls mane targets (acrv, chrimi, OOTN, thomith) scum.

Oh also tomorrow we hypo cop and JK. OOTN doesnt claim unless a kill doesnt show up.

[Rainbowdash]

@PM - Even with the claim from OOTN do you want him lynched?

Chrimi is being annoying here, but reads kinda town through antagonizing power players.

[Rainbowdash]

Im actually really OK with the Helio lynch.

Amrun and Chrimi need to stop fighting because they are both town.

[Rainbowdash]

Chrimi.

Stop. Amrun is town. So are you.

Move on and lets lynch scum.

[Rainbowdash]

And can someone link me to a Helio case?

He is doing nothing this game.

He calls AcRv and chrimi scum fighting together early and OOTN scum for "being sneaky" but never votes him despite that occupying most of his cases.

The mane reason he thinks that AcRv and Chrimi are scum is that they are distracting everypony though, that seriously is his case and what he is voting on for the first part of the game.

Now he is voting Chrimi for being "defensive" (using that tell is a scumtell) and for posting while on V/LA (am I also scum for being semi-V/LA right now and posting?). Apparently AvRv and Chrimi also arent scum together but im not sure what has changed... his reads just seem to match common suspects.

His basic defense for sitting around is that he would rather watch other town scumhunt.

Helio is just managing to "skate around the game" and "He doesnt post much"

Amrun and Chrimi are town, probably Hikari and FD, OOTN we can pin down soon here. We should get a mini alliance going and rock this game.

[Rainbowdash]

I work... *sunglasses* alone.

Seriously though, I don't trust Rainbowdash, FD, nor OOTN. So I'd pretty much not work there very well >.>

If you trust my reads I really dont care as much if you dont trust me or FD. OOTN you should have no problem being a tag along for the alliance though since if he is scum, he is living on borrowed time as is.

Going lone wolf in this game is anti-town basically no matter what the situation is. A large group, working together and headed by town one of the most frightening things scum can run into. We are making one right here, right now.

[Rainbowdash]

unvote

No quickhammer shennanigans. For all practical purposes my vote is on Helio though.

[Rainbowdash]

Rainbowdash, it wasn't going to be a quickhammer. Get that vote back on there, we need pressure on him.

Pfft

He is selfvoting, so thats probably going to come of next time he posts, then I can put my vote back. Im not having some silly filly hammer without a claim either accidently or "accidently" if he is town.

[Rainbowdash]

Haven't we already discussed that L-2 really isn't too much pressure?
UNVOTE:
VOTE: Helio

Then we discussed that leaving him at L-1 when he is obviously going to unvote himself allows for somepony to make some derpy move!

Remembering stuff is fun!

[Rainbowdash]

Vote Heliograph

Yep time to lynch

[Rainbowdash]

You should hammer Helio, it will be awesome.

[Rainbowdash]

is it L-2 or L-1?
Not sure about the reaction test, but it sort of makes sense, as day 1 i'm confused on why scum would claim.

You do realize his reaction test only calls two ponies scum, one of which was already voting him (OOTN) and the other of which he has called scum the entire game yet is probably town (chrimi). It gave him nothing, and he is just trying to play it off best he can as some town gambit.

Somepony hammer.

[Rainbowdash]

day 1 i'm confused on why scum would claim.

Why would town?

Logically no pony should, so its not something you can pin on any alignment. Only conclusions that can be drawn from it say he should be lynched, and you know those conclusions from firsthand experience.

[Rainbowdash]

fair point, still unsure about this whole thing.
has helio claimed? (other than scum...)

Nopony ever learns.

What did you do in that one game I bailed you out in that I caught and saved your lynch with?

[Rainbowdash]

Well its not QUITE as strong, but chance is high.

[Rainbowdash]

lol being unsure? Whats your point here?

You really dont remember me?

Back in that game you essentially claimed VT through a few moves which gave me enough additional fodder to my case on you being town to save you and get scum lynched. Helio has basically claimed VT through his continued use of a selfvote and something else which im not going to bring up right now but makes it almost for sure that he is VT but can trap him if he wants to fakeclaim.

He is scum though through his continued hanging back and doing nothing scumhunting wise, while trying to bluster up a case on OOTN (claimed PR) and chrimi (town) while apparently ignoring sando for some reason.

[Rainbowdash]

@PM - OOTN is dead scum walking if he is scum, so im happy with leaving him in the alliance but not driving it. Amrun is probably town here for voicing basically the exact same thoughts I did right at the restart, and if Helio is scum she is basically auto-town.

[Rainbowdash]

Vote GNR

If there is a living JK you are countering OOTN now. If anypony claims JK later they get lynched.

We hypocop after everypony claims not-JK or counters.

NOT UNTIL THAT POINT.

[Rainbowdash]

I'm confused. How am I countering him? I never claimed JK at all

I never said that. I voted you for other reasons.

If there is a JK though, they need to counter now because it means that OOTN is scum (as there cant be three JKs) and after a hypocop it will give scum fits about who they need to kill since it means a cop exists.

Note cop claims tomorrow if we have one. We just hypoclaim today unless there is a guilty.

[Rainbowdash]

No, it doesn't mean I'm scum. I am definitely a real JK, so they must be scum instead.

We cross that bridge if we come to that bridge.

[Rainbowdash]

Im assuming this constitutes both GNR and Thomith claiming "not JK" am I correct in that?

[Rainbowdash]

So just waiting for a JK claim/not claim from sando and we can move on with hypo cop.

[Rainbowdash]

Woo! Theory time - time for this pony to shine.

OOTN gets ignored today by and large, thats the biggest thing we take away from this. He isnt getting lynched and a cop if one exists is not claiming today, they are claiming tomorrow.

We are in one of two setups

1) OOTN is a JK and there is a cop and three scum
2) OOTN is scum, there is no cop and only one other scum

What we do here is hypocop, which means everypony says something like

"If I am a cop, I targeted X and they came up Y" that way if the cop dies, we know what they got as a N1 result. Tomorrow the cop actually claims if they are around since it clears OOTN, and most likely at least one pony is clear/condemned.

@OOTN - If you are a JK, you are going to have to use your own judgement on if you should retarget the same pony off of results or not. Only way this really will hurt us is if you are a JK and hit the cop last night though, and thats something we can deal with if it happened, but chances are so low im not going to compramise the situation by having OOTN claim a target first since its just going to be WIFOM.

For hypocop - If I am the cop, I got a guilty on GNR. Please note this does not mean we are quicklynching GNR since I am not confirming or denying that I am the cop.

In their next post, everypony should make a similar claim of what they got on somepony.

@Hikari - Scum know if there is a cop or not, we dont. There is a medium chance we are going through the motions for nothing here, but if there is a cop this is optimal play.

@Chirmi - Hypo cop is "hypothetical cop" which I think has been standard since 2009(?) or so? At least thats when I first remember it a bit but I never played opens much until recently where it applies more. Its basically a "If I am a cop" statement that guarentees that the cop gets their result out in a way that at least should keep them hidden in a few players. Undoubtedly there are a couple that are going to show scum they are not cop in a hypocop with a result, but cop is still hard to pin down and they for sure produce a result.

[Rainbowdash]

Who did you choose N1?

Dont claim who you targeted.

[Rainbowdash]

I just like a GNR lynch here, he is doing very very little, with small snipes at what is happening from time to time mostly at OOTN. He actually ended the day not suspecting anypony, and hasnt given anything in the forms of reads in a long time. Best I really can tell from reading him is "not scum with Thomith" through a few posts as well as lower chance scum with AvRc and FD.

Reminds me a whole lot of how he played when I was scum with him at one point.

[Rainbowdash]

Dash: Thought this was his meta.

Haven been scum with him the past its dead on his scum meta. Had to bail him out hard and even then I only was able to buy him a few days before he ate it.

@FD - He has posted nothing so he is lurking it up hard and not really going to give us anything, which is why I investigated him if I am cop.

If you want me to break down his about 20 posts (yes thats its after restart)

1) He throws out a lot of information and theory about Chrimi early when he goes on about the whole selfvote thing trying to extract some reasoning from both OOTN and AcRv over the sitaution but never make a stance on it himself or actually does anything with what he got and elects to move on for unknown reasons

2) His attack on OOTN is off. Best I can pull is

you seem like acting to appear town because it appeared that you were using them as a way to back-up your actions

So calling him scum because he is doing what it appears like he should be doing? Or something?

I also at this point will say that even if I have a guilty on GNR as a cop, I am fully willing to lynch elsewhere.

3) After the OOTN lynch, he tries to put all backing of what the lynch is on OOTNs suspicions (which is why if GNR is scum Thomith is town), and vice versa. He almost seems to be still trying to make us somewhat doubt OOTN is actually a JK (again, if this is no cop GNR is town but eh)

Really though - GNR has nothing to show in the form of suspects, anypony he does suspect he either immediately drops or just forgets about for the most part.

[Rainbowdash]

There may be an odd borderline gambit/major assumption we can pull today that can put us in a very strong position for tomorrow. Just hold on and let me think about it for a little, this is almost as much for me that I dont just forget about it.

[Rainbowdash]

Lol.

Waiting to hear what rainbowdash is talking about.

Ok, so im thinking we dont lynch anypony who we think is town if OOTN is scum, because odds are 50-50 that he is scum and only has one partner. We shouldnt lynch purely on him being scum because like I said, 50-50 he is confirmed town (and I really hope if he is scum his partner doesnt claim cop because that will be a PAIN to figure out and could be massive WIFOM that gets us to an endgame).

I think that we should almost act like he is scum for purpose of the lynch today though, since if he is scum and we lynch somepony that is town if he is scum... well thats a waste isnt it?

Im going to go through and see what type of a lynch pool im looking at here soon. I think its playing it safe to just say anypony who doesnt work at all with him as scum gets let off the hook.

[Rainbowdash]

Im saying that it is possible that some scum may think doing that is a good idea. Its something to note if there is a cop claim tomorrow, and im sure at least one member of the town is smart enough to know how to deal with it if im dead.

[Rainbowdash]

So why would you give advice to scum on how to beat your plan?

Also, you didn't answer my other questions.

Because im a clever pony. There are contengency plans to everything. Like I said, if scum kill me and try this gambit, im sure somepony else is smart enough to know how to deal with it eventually.

Also im not trying to incite doubt over OOTN at all. We do not touch him today, but if we play as if he is scum, it prevents us lynching somepony who looks obviously town when matched with OOTN-scum which we can prove true or not beyond a shadow of a doubt tomorrow.

[Rainbowdash]

vote sando

[Rainbowdash]

i don't see how rainbow is "giving scum a way to beat her plan" could you point this out to me fud, as i can't see it.

Hey. We are dropping this point. Right now. Fully. Dead serious im willing to lynch anypony who keeps pressing the point.

I can explain tomorrow why I did what I did if im alive, but for today you need to trust that im a clever pony and know what I am doing since its not the end of the world if OOTN scum does this gambit.

Today we lynch sando im thinkin.

[Rainbowdash]

Why Sando?

Because he is somewhat scummy already, and if OOTN is scum he looks golden to be a partner.

[Rainbowdash]

We are not touching OOTN today. Period. If he is scum his partner has to either get in on the fakeclaim with him or he is caught.

Will get a case on sando up later today though, maybe tomorrow.

[Rainbowdash]

Rundown on sando-scum

His first big post isnt that bad, but his conclusions he draws from it make no sense since the pony he zeros in on is not his biggest scum pick because he doesnt want to but his top pick at L-1 because "there is a lot of time left" which really has nothing to do with who you think is scum.

Following that any pushing on AcRv (who he voted) or FD (top pick) goes entirely dead. There is a lot of small posts talking namely about Thomith and OOTN but its not scumhunting, its just talking that never goes anywhere. I have no idea where he stands on anything after his entry into the game, just that he gets involved in quite a few discussions that happen.

Even today, zero clue who is sando thinks is scum. He is just floating along and posting but adding little to no worth about anything game related.

[Rainbowdash]

I'm trying to understand why you're not comfortable with lynching Om The Nom because the connection between his partners would be made regardless of whether they're lynched today or tomorrow?

Because given the setup we can prove him confirmed town or scum tomorrow. Only way it gets vaugely complicated is if he is scum and his partner claims cop.

[Rainbowdash]

I just want to now how you can go about confirming roles with a vote hear, like let's say you vote me and I flip town(or scum), then what does that make Om?

Its an open game. You can easily confirm players in open games. OOTN will either be confirmed by a cop claim tomorrow, or be condemned when none claim. If he is scum and his partner wants to gambit with a cop claim, so be it, its figure outable in the long run I think.

If you trust me at all, let this drop. I am a clever pony and know exactly what I am doing here.

You should vote sando.

[Rainbowdash]

@RD still would like a reason why you think sando/om would make sense as buddies, as i recall you saying this could be the case.

Just read sando and it should be at least somewhat noticeable. It doesnt matter much in the here and now though since OOTNs alignment is still very up in the air.

[Rainbowdash]

i don't like how matt and fud are seemingly dumb to the fact we can clear om, matt more so because he seemingly wants om dead before he can have a chance to get cleared, thats how i see it anyway.
UNVOTE:
VOTE: PM

We are not lynching PM today. Or GNR for that matter beause both are town if OOTN is scum. I would prefer not to lynch FD for similar reasons.

I almost want to just flex my power a bit and say lynch pool is (sando/hikari/acrv) but am not overly sure on that one a this point. We dont touch OOTN/PM/GNR though today, period and end of story.

[Rainbowdash]

I can see where Rainbowdash is coming from, but I'd rather see FuDuzn lynched than Sando.

:goodposting:

Well... I just have a bit of an aloof town read on him, and he may have hit of "the tells" that tends to be exceedingly accurate at finding town from my experience, which im not going to touch on until its poked at more which likely happens either way.

Sando I think is scum, and works with next to everypony as scum because of how much he has avoided meaningful conversation this entire game.

[Rainbowdash]

unvote

No hammer without a claim, and im going to mull stuff over either way, but sando should claim at this point

[Rainbowdash]

Given you're attacking me specifically for NOT putting someone at L-1, why have you just removed your vote?

I dont care about why you didnt put him at L-1. I think the reasoning is weak but can buy it from town or scum. Im more interested in why you more or less just dropped him as a suspicion.

If anypony claims cop please nopony else post until I get to check in because depending on who it is what we do changes.

I want to think about this a little since I liked that response for the most part.

[Rainbowdash]

Vote sando

Why did you never pressure FD day one?

He definantly *could* have been lynched, but you got into a bunch of little things and never went to him despite it being clear he was your top pick early and then everything got murky.

[Rainbowdash]

1 - Why do you insist that OOTN is 50/50 (true) and yet keep trying to force us to assume he's scum for link-reads? It's a coinflip, yet you attack the idea of working on the basis he's town and promote the idea of working on the basis he's scum, seems contradictory.

There are a handful of players that make little to no sense with him being scum as a partner, so they are not going to be lynched today because if he IS scum, they can be pseudo-confirmed tomorrow. I would rather lynch somepony who make some sense with him though, because if he is scum we already are putting pressure in the right area and lynching scummy player regardless.

Plenty of others don't have much reads, PM, Riggs, FuD has one on me that is following you then accusing me of opportunistically bandwagoning (we'll deal with the irony of this later). Now I'm perfectly happy for you to go after one of them (us) and basically ignore the rest, so I'm not asking that. My question is:

2 - Why me of the people without strong reads day2?

Because GNR is not being lynched under the first question (I would want him dead otherwise). FD and PM I have somewhat of town reads on, FD quite a a bit more at this point but I think both are town.

[Rainbowdash]

1 - Why do you insist that OOTN is 50/50 (true) and yet keep trying to force us to assume he's scum for link-reads? It's a coinflip, yet you attack the idea of working on the basis he's town and promote the idea of working on the basis he's scum, seems contradictory.

There are a handful of players that make little to no sense with him being scum as a partner, so they are not going to be lynched today because if he IS scum, they can be pseudo-confirmed tomorrow. I would rather lynch somepony who make some sense with him though, because if he is scum we already are putting pressure in the right area and lynching scummy player regardless.

By doing this you are basically reducing the pool of lynch targets fairly dramatically based on what is a 50/50. If he's not scum, we drastically increase our chances of mislynching by your reasoning, thus given it is a coinflip, it is poor reasoning. This poor reasoning puts town in a very bad position based on a guess, and given that scum are NOT guessing the setup, someone trying to influence the town on a 50/50 like this seems quite scummy.

See this is where you miss my point. I think there are quite a few ponies who are somewhat scummy at this point, you are in that group, as is GNR. What I am going to use to help a bit though is to not get anypony who has

potential

to be cleared if OOTN is scum lynched. If OOTN is scum, I think GNR is town, so will not vote him when tomorrow we learn, 100%, what OOTN is.

I will not lynch anypony that could, as you say on a coinflip, be essentially cleared. Also results point to one thing heavily so there is that too.

[Rainbowdash]

No, I got your point, it doesn't change the facts, and it is a horrible idea to assume that OOTN is scum at this point, which is essentially what you're advocating. It forces us into a much smaller lynch pool (that you've somehow decided arbitrarily) today, then based on OOTNs flip tomorrow sets up the lynch of the person/people excluded from the pool today. You're essentially guaranteeing at least one mislynch.

How am I guarenteeing a mislynch?

I still am lynching players I think are scum but im doing it in such a way that they work with OOTN, who being perfectly frank, I think is scum if I am not the cop.

[Rainbowdash]

@AcRv - Can you make a case on FD for me?

Im still not really liking sando a whole lot, especially his deflection bit about what I am applying to him working for a larger group, since ive done that with a whole lot of success to protect GNR as a partner in an old game since its something that starts making everypony second guess stuff and start meandering around a whole lot.

Another almost odd thing I want to do is more or less ignore everything that OOTN does at this point since he is going to drive me up the walls with paranoia since as scum he would never want to lynch a partner since its an auto-loss. Maybe its something I need to take into account maybe not. What it DOES tell us is if OOTN is scum, the following are all town: FD, Thomith and Hikari with GNR and sando as almost for sure town. Almost makes me think three scum because it basically leaves OOTN + AcRv/PM as options since im still pretty sure chrimi is town. Either way though, it needs to be said at this point.

[Rainbowdash]

unvote

I need to stop and think

[Rainbowdash]

Post 817: How exactly does it make anyone of us conftowm is Om is scum? The logic fails me here.

Interactions. If OOTN is scum and his partner gets lynched today he may as well suicide because the game is over. Im not sure he is going to be trying to gambit that one that much. Heck I dont mind taking some forms of risks as scum, but thats something I would never really try to be doing.

Im debating a FD vote but something is still nagging me about a tell I may have seen for him being town here.

[Rainbowdash]

For the interest of moving the game along... we may just need a claim from FD here.

[Rainbowdash]

Ok so I reread FD trying to see what everypony else sees and all I found was another somewhat reliable town tell that I originally missed from him. He is either scum who has been told exactly the types of tells that I look for, is amazingly lucky scum, or is town. Im going to say he is town and I am right about everything regarding him at this point. If I have to drag this wagon off him I sure am going to make a valliant effort to.

Problem I have now is when I was looking at sando I found a small tell which means he is either scum with a whole lot of other players who arent, lets go with "strong", or is town.

Vote AcRv

New direction.

[Rainbowdash]

Ok so I reread FD trying to see what everypony else sees and all I found was another somewhat reliable town tell that I originally missed from him. He is either scum who has been told exactly the types of tells that I look for, is amazingly lucky scum, or is town. Im going to say he is town and I am right about everything regarding him at this point. If I have to drag this wagon off him I sure am going to make a valliant effort to.

Again? How many times are we going to have the wagon pulled off FuDuzn, again without a reason?

I cant shut it down the way I know that I can without overstepping a line that im not about to put my hoof on at this juncture. You can trust me on this one or not, but we are not lynching FD today if we force him to claim, read between the lines pony. Im pretty strong at figuring out this stuff when I look for it.

AcRv is my current pick, especially if you are town. Look at the way he approached the whole situation regarding you, from the start of the day to when I started trying to push on you.

Hiraki, Sando, Chrimi, Rainbowdash and Thomith are all townie to me.

I seriously don't see a good case on anyone other than either FuDuzn, Ommy, or Sando right now. Ommy's off limits for obvious reasons as we've discussed.

I'm hesitant to vote Sando because I have a gut feeling that he's town, but if it comes to it I will vote him.

In three days time he goes from "town read" to "there is a good case, would vote" which really just seems like random supporting of a wagon to me.

That and just general iffyness from the slot makes me very uncomfortable with having him around here.

[Rainbowdash]

I can see where Rainbowdash is coming from, but I'd rather see FuDuzn lynched than Sando.

Lke how you ignored that there Rainbowdash. I acknowledged your case on him. I even understood your logic. That was why I said that instead of "I don't think Rainbowdash is right".

I say that I can see the good case on him, and then the post on May 17th says that it was gut keeping my vote off of him. It's called a change in mind after someone puts forward logic as to why someone's scum.

How does my case on sando differ that much from my case on GNR? They actually are fairly similar.

@PM - We are not lynching OOTN today because if he is town we confirm him as such tomorrow. If you want to vote like you think he is scum today be my guest, but we dont touch him.

[Rainbowdash]

FD wagon is basically all acceptable lynched, more reason he is town here.

@OOTN - What is your read on AcRv? After I pushed him this might actually be the first time you ignored something I have done.

[Rainbowdash]

I thought AcRv was town, but your attack on him makes me unsure. You bring up good points that are pretty scummy.

Note to self...

[Rainbowdash]

I dislike all of you right now.

Especially one of you in particular who even puts me to shame in the "blantantness" department.

unvote
Vote GNR

Thats that. We are lynching him.

I know it goes against some things I said but its time.

[Rainbowdash]

Ok im going to make a really bizzare post. Please bear with me here because im just fed up with the direction this game is going and I need to get it back on track

1) There is a cop. I know this because it is either me, or they made themselves obvious a long long time ago.
2) Scum not killing OOTN backs this up. They were cop hunting, or OOTN is scum which I am willing to stake my life saying he is town at this point. If he is scum I can force a win tomorrow for town.
3) That means because apparently only I know whats going on, im taking some liberties on who we lynch today and it is from the following three players

GNR/projectmatt/FD

If anypony so much as tries to touch a player out of this pool I will bring the wrath of Celestia down on you so fast you wont know what hit you.

Its about a week to deadline, and it time to pull the power move I have had tucked away in my back pocket this whole game. There is your lynch pool, it probably has two scum in it, maybe thats the entire team. But there are three scum or the game is already won.

@OOTN - If you trust me as town, please block somepony in that trio, or target me. We have enough going for us that if I am the cop I could eat a block tonight in order to still be alive.

[Rainbowdash]

RD, I thought you had me as town? Why am close to being scum in your book now.

You arent my prefered lynch but given what I know there isnt a ton ton of reasoning for me to argue against your lynch, and putting you up in that group should generate a whole lot of interesting vote movement. Also I may have been overestimating the strength of my mane tell of you being town as I keep thinking about it since its something scum could stumble into. I dont want you lynched but really I think if I can get you vs GNR its a win-win situation.

Now please, vote GNR or PM.

We also need to be very very careful about nopony accidently claiming not cop here since scum are going to be scouring everything from here on out for tells and D1 where I thought it was obvious that the cop outted themselves if its not me.

@Everypony - No one gets to hammer without a claim and if there is a cop claim, I want to be the first to weigh in on it. Just really, im cashing in every trust point I have right here since im THAT sure about the position we are in. If my strong reads are right we can almost force a win here.

[Rainbowdash]

Rainbowdash, why should I vote GNR? I mean, he hasn't told but I really, really dislike Thomith at this point and I don't understand why he's not an option

Thomith is playing like Thomith-town as of late.

Again, if you at all trust me here, GNR or FD from your hooves is the play. The three of you are all reasonably likely to be scum, and it will get some very good wagons going against eachother for information once a few of you flip.

There is only one *tiny* reason I would shy away from a GNR lynch, and im not about to give that reason away to GNR-scum. Him or a partner have to find that out on their own.

[Rainbowdash]

Im taking this one more step.

If you think all three of my named are town or anything along those lines, vote me instead. Im that confident that this is the right move that im going to put myself infront of everypony else. Everything is in a very balanced state right now and im not having either scum or blind town tip over the first domino.

Line in the sand is drawn, you either are going along with me right here or you are going for me. I know exactly what I am doing.

@PM - So are both FD and GNR town to you? If not vote one.

[Rainbowdash]

Get. Off. Thomith.

I am not even asking for a lynch of GNR here, I am saying that we need to lynch in a specific pool or the odds of shooting ourselves goes way up. Like I said, if you at all trust my ability to play this game, and that I am town just listen to me for this and this only.

A: What if you die tonight?

This has nothing to do with anything. If I die there will be a ton of information tomorrow, if I dont we basically have the game won.

B: What do you plan to do today if the lynch is town, or are you counting on a scum flip?

If we mislynch today there is a small chance we havea forced win tomorrow.

At least one of PM and Chrimi are probably scum for that move to Thomith. I have played with him, and this is absolutely how he plays as town, he hit a towntell that I think is all his own, and is amazingly reliable.

Again, if you trust me at all, stay off him. I really dont like being this blunt but I have this game almost wrapped up and im not ABOUT to let either of you jeopordize the win.

Seriously. I know what I am doing. I am a very strong player when I figure stuff out and I have figured enough out to take complete control of this game. I actually really dislike taking this much control but TRUST ME here. I know exactly what is happening and if you havent figured it out, and scum hasnt figured it out, that is not my problem and im not about to spill the beans to damage what might be a forced win here depending on how things pan out.

[Rainbowdash]

@Chrimi - Vote GNR or present your case as to why I am wrong about what im doing. You say that you like the GNR lynch. I say that I have inside information saying he is a good lynch, and you are going against it.

[Rainbowdash]

@PM - Which of GNR/FD are town and which is scum if thats the case. You both are trying to shoot down or avoid what I am doing but you are being really sketchy with the reasoning for why you are doing it. Just sorta brushing it off and ending up elsewhere. Its iron clad reasoning.

[Rainbowdash]

You say you've played with Thomith and say that this is how he plays as town.

Bring me up a game where he jumps on wagons this fast every time one comes up, I've never seen him do it before.

1219 he voted about half the game by page 10. Its more than just how a player votes or anything like that, its how they approach the game and situations. This is a town approach, and it matches a whole lot of what ive seen before.

Dont dodge my question either. Why Thomith over GNR when there is ROLE RELATED information that says you are voting the wrong player out of the two.

[Rainbowdash]

If

you're cop, you investigated GNR and got a guilty. I already know this.

Good. So vote GNR.

But who says Thomith isn't his scumbuddy?

Me.

As I said, I didn't say I would choose thomith over GNR, I said I was fine with either.

And I have said, multiple times, that ther is ROLE RELATED information as to why GNR is the correct lynch instead of Thomith. I will say it again. ROLE RELATED. As in "the cop". As in "we are lynching GNR today". As in READ BETWEEN THE LINES regarding everything.

You keep saying you have no reason to vote Thomith over GNR, and I am giving you 100% for sure information that means we should lynch GNR over Thomith. I dont know if you are scum or dense but believe me im quickly moving from dense to scum with GNR, and after the GNR scum flip which IS coming, oh it could end very badly for you. Take the opportunity to bus while you still have it.

[Rainbowdash]

@OOTN - You know one of the MAJOR points in what I did relied on the cop (who again, shame on you for being THAT obvious) not actually countering what is not a fakeclaim, and if I got blocked you not doing anything. Like I said, I know exactly what I am doing.

My role related information is that I figured out who the cop is and im doing everything in my power to prevent a claim from them. I wieghed my options and half fakeclaiming like I was the cop (since GNR is one of five/six who can be scum) is the right move. Heck I can claim cop FOR the cop and you can lynch me if im wrong about it. I know the cop, I know who the cop cleared, I know somepony else who majorly town slipped. How so many of you didnt see it im stunned.

Also really...

@OOTN - So what... my plan was to get GNR lynched claiming 'cop', have the real cop counter get them lynched followed by me being lynched? Essentially I bus a teammate followed by get the cop lynched then die. Really? My plan was to get GNR lynched, and if he was scum either I draw the NK and/or the JK and the cop should get a second target for an easy win.

[Rainbowdash]

For those who are voting me, you need to explain how this benifits me as scum, at all, to have done what I did. Because it led to one of two situations

1) I am forced to claim cop wth OOTN as partner which gets caught due to setup
2) I am scum with GNR, he gets lynched, I might be able to get real cop lynched, then I get lynched, no win
3) I get GNR-town lynched, I am confirmed not cop and take flack

I still will do this; I will point you to the EXACT post where the cop claimed cop. If you dont believe me, you can lynch me.

Really though I dont get how its hard to find, maybe my mass panic was not needed but I needed to put brakes on things.

Basically the fact is there is no win for me as scum claiming cop today, it just leaves me, who everypony thinks is town, looking really bad. There is motivation for what I did as town though since there are only five who can even be scum at this point (only two are voting me).

Scumteam is probably GNR-PM-Chrimi

There is a cop, OOTN needs to spend a couple minutes tonight looking for them and then coinflip protecting them or their target.

GNR is scum because since I hypo-gulitied him, he has gone into "say nothing of consequence" mode, more than D1 where he just skirted issues he has started acting like he knows he is caught scum. Chrimi makes a lot of sense as a partner with him, because when I started trying to force action, he ended up away from GNR when I started touting role related information for him to be on him.

sando is town because he doesnt realize what the setup is and there are three scum, somepony on his team probably would have told him since they were cop hunting.

FD is maybe town because he claimed VT on page five or something obscene like that, scum rarely does that, even on accident. Its a mild town tell.

Scum is in the rest, minus the cop, minus their clear.

[Rainbowdash]

Im still debating just claiming everything I know here because if I get lynched I dont trust OOTN to not do anything foalish with his JK.

@OOTN - If I get lynched, can I get confirmation from you that you will block one of GNR-Chrimi-PM? Thats probably the scumteam here.

Chrimi is just getting worse fast, he is majorly fishing for WHO the cop is from me at this point. GNR is still scum for the way he shut down everything related giving reads once I came with the guilty on him. PM is more the wildcard, but I think he fits well at this point.

sando is town, cop and their target are town, OOTN is town. You will have at least three clear tomorrow either way using that logic. Cop should check GNR tonight since in the offchance he is town, thats major mislynch bait.

Im just frustrated at OOTN now for making a snap decision that is going to get me mislynched when he missed the point that I was making moves to make sure nothing bad happened and maybe get an easy win if GNR is scum.

Really. As scum I had the easiest win path there was at this point in the game. Why would I ever fakeclaim something that is going to get countered when its physically impossible for me to get a win out of it if I win a 1v1? I know the cop, there was zero way I would ever have gotten lynched, all I had to do was coast to the night, clean up the cop and then its a cakewalk from there since just about everypony is lynchable.

[Rainbowdash]

I have the post and reasoning all squared away but debating claiming it. Issue is that ive already pointed away from quite a few. Still think its worth the risk of not though.

@Chrimi - Are you saying that if I am right, you think im town or what?

We lynch GNR today. Look at what he did as soon as I came out with the hypo move, he shut down completely. No more reads, at all. This feels like scum who is afraid of making ties.

[Rainbowdash]

Well im not outting the cop really here. I want scum to possibly work for it. Worst case if my sando read is right we still have multiple clears if cop dies.

Like I said, I want a GNR lynch.

[Rainbowdash]

If RD gets lynched and flips town, I will follow her advice. But she's scum and needs death.

Again, explain my scum motivation for the move I made. How do I ever come out on top as scum?

Either

1) Im scum with GNR and after I get him lynched the cop counters me
2) Im scum without GNR and after I get him lynched cop counters me

Both those end up with me lynched, and even best case scenario in the second one leaves me facing at least two cleared players tomorrow, with sando untouchable given how I have approached the game.

@FD - Yeah im being terse but I figured something out and had to forceably drag the game out of a potentially bad position, I really dislike having to make those type of moves but they are needed. I figured the cop wouldnt counter me because they would have known they essentially claimed, I just was hoping OOTN didnt block me and decided I would randomly fakeclaim cop as scum. So im a little upset that a good protective move is putting me right in the line of fire.

FD is still probably town for trying to tell me that my town tell on him is bad.

[Rainbowdash]

What was your town motivation?
Really, that's a WIFOM defense.

I know who the cop is, the game is moving unpredictably as you have seen, we have had six wagons so far D2... thats a lot of movement that has happened really fast. I can pin scum group down to six players, and it was time to simply focus attention in a safe area where town keeps an upper hoof in the proceedings. Tomorrow if you dont believe me we can come back to it, if you dont want to lynch GNR, go elsewhere too.

Once cop is outted it should be obvious why and when I made my play though, makes cop life easier by smiplifying what a correct move from them would be for the rest of the day.

Its hard to explain fully without a outted cop, so I will tomorrow. You dont HAVE to vote GNR, you can go elsewhere. Look at his play though. He has said nothing this game day at all. It really matches along the lines of scum who think they have a guilty on them.

[Rainbowdash]

Deadline is coming up here soon. Can we just hammer?

[Rainbowdash]

@Chrimi - Actually while we are waiting for the hammer... why did you jump right on GNR the first time I came up with my softclaim (940) but delayed the second time. It especially makes little sense when you seemed to acknowlegde that I was cop claiming the first time, yet it took me all but actually fakeclaiming to make you come around when you were saying GNR or Thomith

[Rainbowdash]

Honestly, it'd be more efficient for everyone if I made the post overnight and posted it next game day.

Does that sound fair to everyone? I know I've been stalling it but it's just that I've been busy with stuff that I'm not supposed to be busy with.

I would be happy with this if you dont have any dissenting opinions from the status quo. Im not sure I want the no lynch at this point in the game though, when we may not even need to use it.

@OOTN - This is going to sound strange, but you should dice roll your investigation UNLESS you find the cop, in which case weight it to targeting them and remove their target from the pool. Being scum in a game with known town RB before, its hard to figure out who should submit the kill.

[Rainbowdash]

Yeah GNR continues to post everywhere but here. He needs hammering, this is scum not knowing a way out instead of town trying to work something out.

[Rainbowdash]

Ok... so scum are desperate AND blind? I was 100% expecting a dead OOTN or no kill to have happened.

As far as im concerned its Chrimi or PM today, and probably the second tomorrow.

@OOTN - You need to have your "if we lynch scum I block X" down before we start voting, as if we lynch scum, you cant die without clearing somepony.

@cop - If you have a result claim. If not im going to say let it ride.

[Rainbowdash]

Almost every fiber of my being says PM should be getting lynched here, then I just see one or two sentances from him that make me think otherwise... if it wasnt for those I would already be trying to basically end this day. Then again there are some things that make me go 'hmmph' still either way.

Its at least one of PM/Chrimi though, I would not at all be surprised if im freaking out over nothing and its both. I think of cop got a result on one of the unknown its over. So I will go to sleep and hope it over by tomorrow.

@OOTN - You are trying to block the kill tonight, no matter what happens today.

@sando - Cop exists. They are only claiming if they have a result from last night. If they got blocked or checked Hikari they stay quiet. If they have a result we should have three lynches and in WORST case scenario four possible scum.

Worst case half the game is clear as far as I am concerned. If cop has a guilty I will present the forced win and scum can resign the game. If cop has an innocent there is still probably a forced win here if we dont hit the one town in three players.

[Rainbowdash]

I'm against the cop claiming if they don't have a guilty and only have one innocent, but hey it's your choice i guess.
If you guys saw the cops breadcrumb we could hypocop and then at least some of us will know the report?

If cop as a innocent from last night they should claim because it should give me enough to almost force a win since somepony alive dropped what is enough of a town tell that I would not even consider lynching them outside of a F4 situation. That should leave us with about a forced win if we get another clear from anyponys hooves, basically if JK didnt hit cop I think we won outside of Hikari or myself being checked last night.

If cop doesnt have a result, extra hypo is really not worth it since only the PRs would know what happened, basically with no result claimed OOTN knows who he hit is cop so he wont target them again. He will go for the block instead (especially if we hit scum). Maybe if we mislynch I can see him doing a dice roll with cop in there, but thats it.

@OOTN - Who you blocked last night hold onto. Who you block tonight IN THE EVENT WE HIT SCUM you claim ahead of time. If we hit scum, only one scum is alive so cant kill if you hit them, meaning you get killed and your target is confirmed town. Very crudely, we lynch scum today we win. OOTN prevents the kill tonight we win. Playing RANDOMLY we have about a 70% chance of winning.

Actually... let me think. I think OOTN shouldnt protect the cop either way and just go for the block instead

Oh this is awesome. We get to hook the JK and cop up or force a win.

Want to make sure you have this OOTN - If the cop does not claim a result, you blocked them last night. If thats the case you dont block them again, and try to hit scum that is submitting the kill. You also need to claim "If we lynch scum I am blocking X" at this point, so that if we do lynch scum its a forced win for us as you will clear somepony and cop will clear somepony else at the same time. If we lynch town just block whoever you think is scum.

That was a lot of thinking.

After cop checks in we can see where we go next.

[Rainbowdash]

Eh?

Okaaaayyyy, I had seen same thing AcRv did which is why the mini meltdown occured right after it

So

Im town, OOTN is town, sando, AcRv and FD are town...

Chrimi/PM/Thomith are where scum is then it would mean.

So it should be a forced win.

For Hikari to die, it means that PM would be town (probably) due to his hypo. Scum had to be desperate though to go straight for the cop since unless they were in massive trouble, OOTN was the correct play.

It doesnt make much sense though either way, thinking Chirmi lynch though right now due to dead Hikari.

Too bad AcRv was investigated, he is obviously town for Hikari dying over Thomith if Thomith is the cop and this is sando trying to be clever.

@Thomith - If this is a gambit and you have a N2 living result, claim it now because that might make more sense in the grand scheme of things.

[Rainbowdash]

I think it really might be Thomith-Chrimi here

Hikari died because scum were hunting for the cop.

Logically this means that PM should be town, because through the hypo they would know Hikari was not the cop outside of a major gamble that Hikari got blocked and was just throwing something out there, or just not paying attention which both I doubt.

AcRv is town because Thomith lived, and both ways he is clear as Thomith-cop means AcRv is town because Thomith is alive, sando-cop means AcRv is town because of results.

So it basically has to be Thomith-Chrimi who went for the cop in an all or nothing move and missed it.

I have a hard time believing Thomith-town fakeclaimed cop that hard. Even my move I kept saying "or I know the cop", the move from Thomith more lines up with scum putting out a solid breadcrumb. The reaction of Chrimi staying on Thomith though after that is odd enough though that maybe scum just botched the move last night.

Heck I ALMOST want to say sando is fakeclaiming here. If he is, he needs to come clean now, because the only logical pairing if he isnt makes no sense to me. I just have that something is very wrong feeling.

@OOTN - In the SUPER offchance you are last scum, can you just give up now? Setup will catch you when it hits F4 and game isnt over.

Vote Chrimi

Its the only thing that makes sense here. Probably with Thomith given hypos.

[Rainbowdash]

I think it really might be Thomith-Chrimi here

Hikari died because scum were hunting for the cop.

Logically this means that PM should be town, because through the hypo they would know Hikari was not the cop outside of a major gamble that Hikari got blocked and was just throwing something out there, or just not paying attention which both I doubt.

AcRv is town because Thomith lived, and both ways he is clear as Thomith-cop means AcRv is town because Thomith is alive, sando-cop means AcRv is town because of results.

So it basically has to be Thomith-Chrimi who went for the cop in an all or nothing move and missed it.

I have a hard time believing Thomith-town fakeclaimed cop that hard. Even my move I kept saying "or I know the cop", the move from Thomith more lines up with scum putting out a solid breadcrumb. The reaction of Chrimi staying on Thomith though after that is odd enough though that maybe scum just botched the move last night.

Heck I ALMOST want to say sando is fakeclaiming here. If he is, he needs to come clean now, because the only logical pairing if he isnt makes no sense to me. I just have that something is very wrong feeling.

@OOTN - In the SUPER offchance you are last scum, can you just give up now? Setup will catch you when it hits F4 and game isnt over.

Vote Chrimi

Its the only thing that makes sense here. Probably with Thomith given hypos.

[Rainbowdash]

I don't think that Thomith is town for claiming cop - in fact every part of him screams scum and I'm fully planning on getting him lynched today.

I would still be willing to do this.

unvote

I actually want to see Thomith and Chrimi make some posts here about what they think is going on.

[Rainbowdash]

@Thomith - If you really are cop just claim it now, because the optimal gameplay changes if you are cop. I guess I can ask this to sando as well because I have been running numbers and have a forced win in a sando-cop case. In the following

OOTN, sando, AcRv and FD are confirmed town through role information

You lynch either Thomith or Chrimi, if scum just call blocks for auto-win.

If town, go for block (scum have to go for OOTN kill) and cop should mop up win.

If Thomith is cop...

OOTN, Thomith, AcRv and myself are town, PM probably... so its not quite a forced win.

We lynch, hit scum and JK rudown for a win. Hit town... JK has about 50/50 of stopping kill for insta win, but scum still forced to go for JK so it brings another pony to AcRv cleared status... yeah that may be a near forced win.

Really unless anypony think that PM-myself is the last two scum, we have this game won essentially once I get confirmation on who the cop is. Gameplaying time is over, gamebreaking time is now.

[Rainbowdash]

I throw my hooves up in the air some times...
singing hey-o and what the buck...

Alright.... alright... I thought that was obvious I was town but this is not the end of the world.

Think Dash think.

AcRv didnt kill Thomith... which means he still is probably town

That means its down to sando/PM/chrimi/FD... OOTN should let Thomith die tonight and go for the block instead since if we hit it we get another lynch, meaning scum decide if they want an all or none move or not.

Also yay... I was totally right in this was sando being coy it seems. At least im not being completely worthless in reading ponies like I thought there for a bit.

ANYWAY

Four unclear: PM/Chrimi/sando/FD (technically AcRv but no... he is town)

That makes a ton more sense. Ton ton ton ton ton.

I want to give brownie points to sando for that cop fakeclaim, but not sure how many are really deserved. I also want to call PM town again because of the dead Hikari and PM would have known Hikari wasnt cop.

So Chrimi-FD. That makes a lot more sense.

Its probably it but imma sleep on it.

My imaginary vote is on Chirmi though.

[Rainbowdash]

Scum would have left me alive in the off-chance that you guys were going to pursue me if there wasn't a cop claim.

No...

Scum left you alive because they are pretty desperate and wanted to take the cop down instead of taking the safer (and argueably correct regardless) path killing you. There is zero way you ever would have gotten lynched because if you were scum it would mean only you and when game doesnt end on a F6 mislynch you are caught.

I was entirely floored when you were alive to start the day, and just blew right by all standard sanity checks when Hikari was the one dead.

@OOTN - Are you still blocking PM if Chirmi flips scum?

[Rainbowdash]

Nopony do anything until I get back from taking a friend to the airport.

This is exactly what I was worried about happening tomorrow if we didnt sort out sando/Thomith and now its happening today. I think we still got it in the bag forced but want to be sure and have no time to run the numbers.

[Rainbowdash]

Its one of the following pairings though

sando-PM (unlikely)
sando-AcRv (unlikely)
sando-FD
sando-Chrimi
Thomith-Chrimi
Thomith-PM (highly unlikely)

The only problem I have with jumping right on the Thomith lynch today is that he ony really works with Chrimi who stayed on Thomith after my big speech yesterday unless we want to believe that a Thomith-PM team missed the fact that Hikari (to them) couldnt be the cop. Also if we are wrong... we actually lose out on a forced win.

Sando makes a ton more sense as the cop I think given that I dont see him fake countering Thomith today as scum.

We have two options

1) No lynch
2) Lynch Chrimi

I think chrimi lynch is actually the right move as I think more and more about it. He is one of two (other being PM) who work with both cop claims. Lynching him allows both cops to fire off actions, as the WILL both be unprotected. In the event he is town we get a six alive D4 that sando has a "Thomith and X" pairing all laid out, which gets fired back with a "sando and X" after a no lynch (or sooner). This means worst case scenario we enter lylo with a pairing vs pairing situation.

While if I had to choose for cop I would pick sando as the real one by quite a bit, this is just the most conservative way to get this win. A Chrimi lynch, where IF HE IS SCUM - OOTN blocks Thomith for a two day max forced win.

Vote Chrimi

[Rainbowdash]

I actually think that Thomith is the fake.

But I'm actually inclined to jump on the Chimi wagon ATM because I think between the non cops he would be the scum or another one of them. (There has to be another scum, right? If not, it's auto between cops right now.) just after I go ISO him again.

I'll be away tomorrow so I'll try to throw up a vote and reasoning tonight

No. You are overcomplicating things

Here is what we know

1) OOTN is confirmed town
2) Exactly one of Thomith and sando are scum
3) If sando is scum, exactly one of PM/Chrimi/AcRv/FD are scum
4) If Thomith is scum, exactly one of PM/Chrimi/RBD are scum

If we lynch somepony on both lists (PM/Chrimi), we are faced with one of two situations

1) We hit scum, in which OOTN has his block called and we finish it up quickly
2) We hit town, OOTN throws away his block, and we have:

1) sando claiming an exact team
2) Thomith probably claiming a team (since AcRv is 99% town) - Note, if Thomith investigates AcRv I am lynching him outside of inconclusive proof sando is scum

The only way this at all is a difficult win from where I am is if the pairing is sando-FD.

Really though I dont think Chrimi and PM are both town... so one of them has to be scum and Hikari dying I really dont think PM would have had happen without a massive oversight.

Worst case we possibly have here is a team vs team callout in F5. Best case we lynch Chrimi scum and thats the game today.

Actually......

hmmmm......

Im thinking on risk benifit for a little on a move. Im going to need some cards though for it.

[Rainbowdash]

Wait.

Im going to bust out the playing cards tonight and figure this all out.

[Rainbowdash]

Vote No Lynch

No Lynch to

Sando cops me
Thomith cops FD

Brings to outted pairs at F7 or confirmed FD/me clears

Chrimi (worst case town) lynch to F6 (night) with
Thomith+PM
or
sando+AcRv/PM
I probably die

Thomith checks PM...

F5 is
Thomith+PM
vs
sando+AcRv

Which means its probably Thomith+PM if thats what happens since AcRv would in a situation where a partner loss ends the game for him be trying to get his partner lynched after he saw the cop claim cop and instead killed Hikari. Both those pairings look like bucking ugly though so its probably Chrimi + somepony or sando + FD.

Tah-dah.

We no lynch

@Sando - You are investigating me
@Thomith - You are investigating FD
@OOTN - You are not blocking, or if you insist upon doing so, blocking VT unless you right here and now want to argue with me that sando+AcRv is a legitimate pairing.

Vote No Lynch

[Rainbowdash]

So yep...

Unless somepony wants to come in and argue why it is one of

Thomith and PM
or
sando and AcRv

Its won by my plan. FD and myself get cleared/caught tonight. Chrimi dies tomorrow unless one of us are scum.

From there those two pairings go one on one in the even FD/Chrimi/myself are all town. I still say both those two are the most likely to be town as well out of Chrimi/FD/PM/AcRv

AcRv is essentially confirmed town to me for not killing Thomith, not to meniton him trying to get sando (only one he could be scum with by plan) lynched when if sando dies today and is his partner he loses no matter how much town cred he gets as there would be too many clears.

Lets do it unless there is a good arguement otherwise. Im going to tabulate the actions. You WILL all take these actions

Player	target
sando	Investigate Rainbowdash
Thomith	Investigate FuDuzn
OOTN	Jail RBD or FD

This way we have two confirmed town in F7, one Scum/Town pair, and three unknowns, one of which we lynch creating the 2v2 worst case D5. Best case its sando-FD and game is over.

[Rainbowdash]

I'm not seeing the guaranteed win here from no lynch. I will die overnight, you'll be left with 3 confirmed town, 1 confirmed scum, and 3 unconfirmed containing 1 scum. You lynch Thomith, 1 dies overnight, you're left with 2 confirmed, 3 unconfirmed containing 1 scum. Doesn't seem like an auto-win to me.

If you die it confirms Thomith scum with FD, OOTN and AcRv as town with seven alive. We lynch Chrimi, OOTN blocks PM. If game is going and there is a kill (OOTN) F5 with three clear and force win, if scum stall we just get a free lynch.

Thomith dies overnight same basic plan of attack.

Scum have to kill OOTN tonight.

@FD - F5 for instance is final five (scenario with 5 alive).

I would rather no lynch first because it gives us cop results outside of lylo, its all really similar, but if Chrimi is town it saves a mislynch from occuring if you are scum. Basically the same thing though.

[Rainbowdash]

Tomorrow Thomith and another scum will be alive if we no lynch, if we mislynch tomorrow then two scum alive who can submit a kill, why do you think Om's block will achieve anything?

I'm dead, you lynch Chrimi, how are you going to stop scum killing Om overnight? That only works if Chrimi is scum.

Sando has a point, if we dont lynch a scum today, then what is to stop scum killing om?

You guys arent getting it.

This plan results in OOTN dying tonight after a no lynch. Thats a forgone conclusion.

When OOTN dies however, it clears me and FD or it will catch a pair of Thomith-me or sando-FD.

Follow that with a chrimi lynch if needed and all that is not caught is sando-AcRv and Thomith-PM as the pairings that will go against eachother. Its not sando-AcRv so this is a safe move either way given that Thomith-PM is unlikely to start as well (but the obvious pick if its one or other pair).

If we lynch Chrimi and he flips town, we should be in a similar position I guess... actually im not sure I ever really thought of us using a no lynch in F6... ok maybe Chrimi lynch works first afterall

Chrimi lynch (town assume)
OOTN NK (sando->RBD, Thomith->FD) to 6 alive...
Yeah it looks about the same afterall

Ok yeah Chrimi lynch today but we need to keep the same actions that I already stated in order to make sure we get 100% clears ASAP

This means after Chrimi lynch
If town
OOTN tosses his action on me or FD
sando cops me
Thomith cops FD

If scum
scum just suicides since they have lost

[Rainbowdash]

Why is it a foregone conclusion? You've just outlined how doing that almost guarantees a scum-loss, and yet it's a foregone conclusion that OOTN dies tonight?

I've pointed out how we're in no way guaranteed a win if they kill me as a cop, so why would they not? Yes it guarantees Thomith dead, but it hides his partner a lot more.

OOTN is the FORCED scum kill tonight. The win is stunningly simple if you die tonight because of there being one scum left once Thomith dies due to OOTN not being able to die without getting a public clear, and with FD and AcRv already town if you are the cop, its literally a forced win. Other way around close but I think still forced.

The only reason im a little hesitant to lynch Thomith right now is that if I would have had somepony on my team countering Thomith if he is cop, and Thomith got countered.

You need to look at it from a non-you standpoint. Lynching Tomith-cop today means that OOTN probably dies tonight unless he gets a lucky block in, we lynch you, then I die making it F4 with no clears except the psuedo clear AcRv and its Chrimi/PM/FD with no clears in an endgame, which im not letting happen in the case of me being wrong about something here.

I do think Thomith is more liklely scum, but im not going to risk anything that I dont need to risk here.

[Rainbowdash]

In the meantime though,

I want every single player

here to tell me who they currently think is the scum team.

Nah.

In part because I have no clue, in part because this doesnt accomplish anything productive since we are locking into a 1v1 already.

The possible parings are

Thomith + Chrimi
Thomith + PM
Thomith + RBD
Sando + Chrimi
Sando + PM
Sando + FD
Sando + AcRv

I am willing to toss the sando/acrv pair because AcRv is town
Today we get rid of the Chrimi containing ones and if he is town, clear FD and me tonight.

So it doesnt matter unless you are asking me which of

Sando + AcRv and Thomith + PM I think is the more likely pairing, which I have answered, there is no point in answering the bigger picture question. I will take the logical path when needed.

[Rainbowdash]

Get rid of Thomith, PLEASE. Two people have claimed cop, and you guys are trying to lynch somebody else?

Dumb fuckers.

I point you back to my arguement about how I have a probable forced win and worst case its sando+AcRv vs Thomith+PM

Lynching you (or PM... try and get him lynched if not you) allows me to be cleared and FD to be cleared/caught at which point we get the 1v1 situations all cleaned up.

So...



Try again.

[Rainbowdash]

Actually looking at it, literally the only thing that this plan accomplishes is the removal of the buffer for a mislynch of the cop. I'm asking you to believe me today and I'll give you the win. If you disbelieve me today and lynch me, well at least Thomith is dead tomorrow and you've still got a chance. Mislynch me tomorrow after a town mislynch today, and it's a draw at best.

*sigh*

One of my biggest problems with actually doing this is you are doing the exact same thing I would be doing as scum in your position. I have won multiple games as town stepping back and seeing what I would have done as scum in certain positions. This is one where the correct plan of attack was simply that scum counters Thomith and tries to push for their mislynch, hoping for the OOTN NK to go through and having a winnable F3.

Do you think there is a high chance of it being Thomith+PM? Yes or no. Thats ALL I want from you right now. Yes or no do you think thats a probable pairing.

The only way my plan is NOT a forced win tomorrow is a Thomith-PM or Sando-AcRv pairing.

In the event Chirmi is town (low-ish) FD-scum or me-scum get caught tomorrow by the cop. All thats left is those last two pairings that we could work out at that point. Im not using our one mislynch on maybe hitting a cop when screwing it up gives us a very ugly F3.

[Rainbowdash]

Ok, so here's my scenario, very likely to happen:
Chrimi flips town, OOTN dies overnight.
I claim a guilty or psuedo-guilty on say PM.
Thomith claims an innocent on Fud (I think that was your suggested target for him).

First you are targeting me tonight, even though technically PM accomplishes the same thing but leaves a couple traps you and Thomith are going to have results on the same players (me and FD)

What now?

A no lynch.

You keep saying 'caught by the cop' tomorrow, how will town know which claimed cop is telling the truth tomorrow as opposed to today?

Its a matter of if we think that Chrimi is town or not. If he is scum, we have this won right here.

Problem is what happens if we lynch the WRONG cop. Yes it looks like you are more likely to be the cop by a little, but if we are wrong then what? If you are scum, we mislynch Thomith, OOTN probably dies, you get lynched and I die making it AcRv-PM-Chrimi all uncleared (well technically AcRv is still town there) and its a hard final scenario.

Its likely one of the three pairings

Thomith-Chrimi
sando-Chrmi
sando-FD

super small chance PM and sando/Thomith but im treating that as neglegable.

I think AcRv we can treat as town for sure here, and PM as probably town.

Funny part, if we HAD to lynch a cop claim today, I may lynch you just because its that much easier for us to eek out a win if we are wrong as it confirms both AcRv and FD as town along with OOTN. OOTN gets a shot at catching scum through his JK which can go anywhere and we end with a endgame of AcRv/FD+Chrimi+Me where I think I could get Chrimi-scum lynched.

Either way though, I fully prefer we just lynch Chrimi who is probably scum right here.

[Rainbowdash]

unvote

You know what?

I just need to stop trying to break stuff and approach this objectively.

Going to read.

[Rainbowdash]

Okay...

Okay..

Ugh

AcRv is town. Period.
OOTN is town. Period.

The fact that Hikari died makes it likely that PM is town. Scum would know that he is not the cop, who the tried to kill.

This leaves FD and Chrimi as possible scum. Which is ick.

I want to actually almost just say lynch Thomith because I really dont buy that he was "just fakeclaiming" and then did nothing when I responded as strongly as I did to that move. Really wish that OOTN would have stayed out of all of this and I would have drawn an easy NK...

Ok

If we lynch Thomith, we either have last scum caught OR clear me and catch sando

we enter a situation where its sando+FD/chrimi at six alive entering night... four alive... yeah so its essentially AcRv with the deciding vote between the two. Maybe not the end of the world afterall.

Aight

Im fine with Thomith lynch followed by (if he is scum) jail of me. If he is town, im clear so dont get jailed and OOTN hits one of FD/sando/PM at random (as AcRv is town).

My only real fear here is sando did EXACTLY what I would have done in his spot as scum. Counter Thomith, get them lynched and have the partner try and win F3.

[Rainbowdash]

Im not voting Chrimi because if he is town there is a very good chance we lose this game, especially if sando is scum.

If we no lynch first we clear myself and possibly FD to start, and I dont have to worry about the chance of sando-scum trying to say its me and Thomith as scum.

We no lynch today, sando checks me, Thomith checks FD. We have seven alive, and at that point we can lynch a cop claim and be guarenteed to have at least one useable result from the cop on top of a cleared AcRv.

Vote No Lynch

We have to mislynches here, and I want as much information as possible about the unknowns before we start risking expending them.

[Rainbowdash]

All of this stuff, no matter what we'll be better off with one less scum.

Whats the difference between lynching Thomith today and tomorrow apart from the fact that I also am confirmed town if he is scum, or FD is confirmed town if he is the cop?

@Thomith - Why didnt you react at all when it should have been obvious that I thought you were the cop and tried to get the GNR wagon to happen without a claim?

[Rainbowdash]

We lynch scum sooner, it's better. Believe me. We can still investigate and such tomorrow, because he's not scum

Ok so your arguement to "what if he is town" is "he is not"

Try again. If he IS scum as you say and we lynch him, it leaves us with just you and PM unclear.

That is a loss how again? Because I see a forced win, while no lynching eliminates a me-Thomith pairing which is most likely to occur, and the no lynch FIRST gives Thomith-cop a free investigation on FD meaning me, FD and AcRv are clear as opposed to just me and AcRv in the event of Thomith being the cop.

If Thomith is the cop and we lynch him today, OOTN dies, sando lynched, I die... its you-FD-AcRv-PM where AcRv had no clue who to lynch.

If Thomith is the cop and we no lynch first, its at least you vs PM to end it instead of throwing a third lynch into the mix.

No lynching first eliminates all chance of a me or FD mislynch. Period.

[Rainbowdash]

50/50? If I'm scum and we lynch cop-Thomith today, in 2 days time then 4 people will be alive, AcRv, FuD, Chrimi, PM, and one will be scum. That's not an instant loss.

Thats not a situation I want to be in though. Really its AcRv and three lynch baits.

Everyone - assuming I find RD innocent what will you do tomorrow if Thomith claims innocent on FuD?
Everyone - assuming I find RD innocent what will you do tomorrow if Thomith claims guilty on FuD?

Not answering. There is a complex forced win in there depending on what result Thomith-scum gives.

[Rainbowdash]

Oh well a plan that you can't explain because it isn't a forced win if scum react a certain way sounds like a great forced win plan...

But.... if Thomith picks wrong as scum. We win.

Im working it out on my desk. Either you (the nail clippers) and FD (the bowl of runts candy) get lynched for town win or Thomith (The Taco Bell hot sauce) gets lynched with either PM (The Bobblehead) or Chrimi (The Safeway Reciept) get lynched for town win.

Actually its simple enough to just say if Thomith claims a guilty

We lynch the Taco Bell Hot Sauce. If its scum, we can lynch the Bobblehead and Reciept at will since we have the time to since we lose on the second, not first mislynch. If the Hot Sauce is town the candy and nail clippers die back to back since Rainbowdash (The Rainbow Dash figure) and AcRv (The quarter) are town either way.

BASICALLY

Tonight we force clear me and FD. Scum fakes a guilty and they get caught.

[Rainbowdash]

Why not just do that now when you're not at lylo?

Because stalling on a no lynch still doesnt have us in a lylo situation, while it 100% removes me (and probably FD) from the equation of even possibly being scum.

At that point we step in and probably lynch Thomith after I get to make a probably pointless arguement of which of the you-PM and you-Chrimi pairing makes more sense since if Thomith is the cop im obviously getting killed over FD and AcRv there. My biggest problem is that I cannot call anypony but AcRv town if you are scum here.

In the offchance that you are playing correctly as scum, im not going to give you a cakewalk, you are going to have to deal with FD being taken off the table first.

If Thomith is scum, we lynch him tomorrow and we can easily clean up Chrimi/PM for a win. Stalling does nothing but adds another safety net, just incase.

[Rainbowdash]

RD - do you agree that unless you or FuD are scum and therefore someone claims a guilty (or stupid scum claim a guilty), we are guaranteed to end up in this situation tomorrow?

AcRv - unconfirmed
FuD - Town
RD - Town
Chrimi - unconfirmed
PM - unconfirmed
Thomith - unconfirmed
Sando - unconfirmed

Who do you lynch?

Well we have two 1v1s... so lynching anypony there technically catches scum either through lynch or POE.

Again, my thing is you are playing exactly, 100% how I would be playing as scum from your spot. I do side with you being more likely scum, but I want to be as sure as posible. No lynching first confirms me and probably FD as town, and catches a you-FD pairing if thats what we are dealing with.

Seriously, worst case its two different 1v1 pairings tomorrow. Best case its game over.

[Rainbowdash]

That worst case scenario will happen tomorrow... surely you can see that as cop-Sando, I KNOW Thomith will give an innocent no matter who he investigates, and you're insanely close to confirmed to me.

If Thomith is scum its a really easy forced win in this 'worst case' since he is probably getting lynched tomorrow, or saves the game with the guilty if he is the cop and its you-FD

We lynch Tomith, if he is scum we can lynch wrong first out of PM/Chrimi and still win.

Your two 1v1s are predicated on the read that AcRv is town, while I agree with him being town, why are you advocating a complex plan that involves eliminating someone due to a town-read (as opposed to guaranteed things like investigations), all to avoid making a decision on the cops,

that you will have to make anyway

??!?!?!

This is simply playing it safe.

IF you are scum, you are playing the correct way by countering, and I am responding by making the play where if you are scum I steal the FD mislynch away from you.

It makes no sense. One of those 1v1s that you're so blasé about is between me and Thomith, yet apparently tomorrow or the day after it'll be easier to make?

Yes. It will be easier because again, we are wrong and its still a F3 1v1, not a F3 with FD-PM-Chrimi all unconfirmed.

But I'm kinda done arguing against this plan, it's like beating my head against a wall. I know AcRv is town, leaving RD as my investigate tonight, as long as you pick right between Thomith and me town win.

I know. I fully plan to lynch Thomith tomorrow. Today though I am making sure that we leave ourselves in a semi-decent position if you are scum. A lot of it is that you are making the correct play as scum (or town) so im wary of everything. Especially given how much stuff still swung towards Thomith post my cop thing.

[Rainbowdash]

Thomith is obviously the scum, and we get way further from a loss if we kill him today.

And if you are wrong?

You realize you are essentially betting the game on being right today, since if he is town OOTN dies, we lynch sando, then I die. At that point its AcRv choosing between three uncleareds, and likely means you get lynched.

So essentially you (as town) are betting the game on Thomith-scum right here and now, when if Thomith is town it will clear FD (who is probably town but still) or catch him.

Im thinking more and mroe about investigations though. Since any guilty would be a 1v1... I think that both cops actually should investigate the player of their choosing tonight after a no lynch, since hitting scum is an auto-win for us.

Im a little hesitatnt given that if Thomith is scum im in for a rough ride and would LIKE to be cleared, but if I could even end up with knowing for sure which of PM/Chrimi are scum I think I could tackle it for an easier win.

My biggest problem still with Thomith-scum is PM/Chrimi basically have to be the partner to them, and I dont see both of them responding to my "cop information" move with "vote Thomith-partner over GNR-partner".

Logic is saying Thomith is scum, but my gut actually is arguing the other way around. I just want to be sure about anything we do here.

@Chrimi - Why did you cop hunt after my cop thing yesterday?
@Thomith - Who is most likely scum with sando and why?
@sando - Who is most likely scum with Thomith and why?

Im officially refusing to vote anything but no lynch today. Its the right move whether you are willing to accept it or not. No lynch simply eliminates two more pairings in their entirety.

[Rainbowdash]

Thomith will give an innocent, may as well make him clear fud while you're at it.

Again, im planning from BOTH sides here. If you are scum and he hits your partner, we win. Given that statement, FD probably isnt your partner. Its an interesting situation where after the game I can discuss theory a little more just so I dont give scum any ideas about how to play this, but I think it actually could be amazingly fun to be playing as scum here.

As I keep saying, you are doing EXACTLY what scum in your position should be doing, so im naturally nervous about it. The counter is mafia play 101. You counter and try to get Thomith lynched, knowing you will eat the next lynch but leave as many mislynches available as possible for a partner getting them to an endgame with all non-soild clears.

Does ootn know how to break the game if I die tonight? It's auto win for town, but a little complicated.

No clue, but if you die im alive so yes. He would know.

[Rainbowdash]

After the game I'd like someone to tell me how claiming cop before the fake-claim is either 'countering' or 'mafia 101'. Thomith breadcrumbing, then not countering me when I claim and in fact claiming VT, then countering my claim at RDs behest, is NOT an example of me counter-claiming someone...

If Thomith is the cop, yeah you did counter him. Which is the right move for scum that does not include Thomith (and probably is in the best position). If you are scum, you know Thomith is the cop so even though he was backing up, its still a counter technically, and again precisely what scum needed to do if Thomith is scum.

Also its *almost* the right move for me as scum to try and get you to not investigate me directly. Right play would have been to go for your lynch hard hoping to get PM/Chrimi to tag along for a mislynch in lylo, or to get you to investigate PM along with Thomith as I already was arguing him town so losing him doesnt much hurt my stances and there is no need to backtrack anything. If I can get you to come to the conclusion that its better to investigate somepony else instead of why it best not to check me it arouses far less suspicion.

Im happy with being checked though since it prevents sand-scum pulling out what looks like a tempting Thomith-Dash pairing

@OOTN - I want confirmation you are not blocking sando/Thomith tonight no matter what. You can either do nothing or block in me/FD/AcRv. Nopony else. Leaving any ambiguity here leaves scum open for "oh I got blocked" play and if you are dead no way to prove it.

[Rainbowdash]

I claimed first, how am I 'countering'?

Ehhh... it was obvious he at least set up for a claim when he did nothing to my response of seeing the breadcrumb. If I got GNR-cop lynched that would have been the game for scum. Either way I was convinced enough he had claimed to ask him explicitly if he was cop afterwords. Again, if you are scum you knew he was the only one who logically could be the cop.

As for OOTN, if you're scum I'm dying overnight, that's a given. Hence he needs to know how to break the game in the event that I die, without your coaching.

Ok fine...

If sando-cop dies, we lynch Thomith at which point we have the following group of players going into night
OOTN (JK)
Dash
PM
AcRv (clear)
Chrimi
FD (clear)

OOTN jails me and calls it pre-lynch. If a kill occurs we have at day

Dash (clear)
AcRv (clear)
FD (clear)
PM
Chrimi

Thats forced win.

If kill doesnt occur, we lynch somepony (chrimi, assume town) to get going into night with agian OOTN calling a JK on me

OOTN (clear)
AcRv (clear)
FD (clear)
Dash
PM

If a kill happens it PM, no kill its a force win.

There you go. Killing the cop is a forced win for town, if its Thomith-cop, you just have to assume AcRv town instead of having it explicit.

[Rainbowdash]

Okay.

'Cops' need to claim their results then we can either enact force win on a guilty we have three cleareds

[Rainbowdash]

Im probably voting Thomith in a second here but want to make my call on who is scum if sando is scum because I know this is my last game day.

[Rainbowdash]

Vote sando

Sorry but I just have some fundamental issues with buying into a Thomith-scum situation here. All of my gut instinct is just screaming that sando is scum... I dont want to listen to it, but if its going to take me voting here to at least stall the game a little im going to.

Look at PM and Chrimi. Did they both, really, as scum try and hard attack Thomith after I claimed cop results on GNR? On top of that have been trying to push on his lynch more than sando? When a lynch of Thomith yesterday OR today is an auto-loss?

I just cant buy it.

Sorry but I cant.

This is a time im listening to the little pony inside me who is saying that im wrong, whether its right or not im not sure, but she rarely is making this much noise over a forgone conclusion.

[Rainbowdash]

Well yall probably mislynched before I could get a word in edgewise.

Really though, if Thomith-scum got lynched scum lost 100% no matter what, and his partner busses out the gate? Its sando almost for sure. Let me try and find his partner before the mod gets here, worst case I just waste a litle bit of time.

If its Thomith though, with PM since otherwise Chrimi hammer is equine to gamethrowing as it would force-loss him.

[Rainbowdash]

It would more likely be sando-PM on a skim, so that would be my 10 second bet.

[Rainbowdash]

Look can scum just give up and save us a week or so? There are five alive and three CONFIRMED town. The only way it can literally NOT be Chrimi/PM is if sando lied about a result which im ignoring possibly having occured.

[Rainbowdash]

yeah w/e

what i was trying DID have the desired effect on rainbowdash - it made her vote for Sando, I was hoping that the other players would think that me/Chimi couldn't be partners either

Too bad Thomith got quickhammered

Whatever, sorry dudes.

vote: projectmatt

Well it was a smart move, but I was almost for sure voting you over Chrimi when comparing to a Thomith partner. You just got unfortunate Chrimi hammered (right move with his read) before I could do all that much.

Killing Hikari though was a big mistake though since it couldnt have been him as a cop which you needed to get rid of ASAP.

GNR shouldnt have power lurked, I was sure he was scum but trying to figure out how to get him lynched, Thomith doing the COP thing gave me what I needed to do that then everything just blew up in my face with the OOTN move.

Im happy my FD read was right though. Can at least take that away

Vote PM

[Rainbowdash]

... Well this is easy
VOTE: projectmatt

Well... it WAS a forced win after the Thomith lynch. This just made it faster even though we were lynching PM over Chrimi today either way.

[Rainbowdash]

Things I want to know

1) How is this setup balanced? Its at best mildly town sided.
2) Why would scum ever recruit? It turns a somewhat difficult win into a very difficult win.
3) Why did Hikari die at all with the hypo result?
4) Why did OOTN NOT die night one?

I really dont think this setup is balanced though, its so town sided its not even funny. The first setup basically is a win for town if they lynch scum in the first day, probably even second day with JK alive. Second setup is just brutal beyond reason for scum to deal with, recruiting was scum mistake number one.