Open 407: Masons and Monks (Game Over!)

[Dazzy]

VOTE: Chrimi
for being a geriatric asian scientist.

[Dazzy]

Not really seeing laneScum at the moment. I do agree that the typos need to stop.

I'm a bit more concerned with Papi and Kondi, who are blatantly sheeping Whiskers.

@Papi: What does lane being paranoid say about his alignment? Why?

@Kondi: Which part of Whiskers' case is strongest in terms of convincing you of lane's scumminess?

[Dazzy]

Dazzy, sorry to answer someone else's question, but paranoia is generally a sign of scum. They have much more to be worried about, and badly feigned scumhunting often ends up looking like paranoia. While I don't think the typo business is really very scummy(he could just as easily be a lazy ass not taking the game seriously), his attitude towards that doesn't really mesh with his paranoia and defensiveness, and THAT is scummy.

vote: lane

@Paul. I am aware of everything you said. I wanted to hear Papi's answer. Thank you for negating any benefit the question may have had.

So, what motivation would Paul have to answer someone else's question?
1) Paul was worried Papi would give an incriminating answer. Interjecting saves Papi the trouble/gives him a guideline.
2) He was trying to be "helpful". Sure, but he also knows enough to apologise for answering the question. If Paul has experience in mafia, he knows that questions are tools. So any impulse to be "helpful" in such a way should logically be curbed by experience.

kondi is a little puzzling, because he's wrong.

+1 to Time & CC.

PAul, could paranoia be a sign of newb, instead?

I think lane is a good candidate as any to quickly run up to L-1 in the early morning of Day 1.

If this means what I think it means then well done I suppose. Certainly explains the quality of the case.

VOTE: Kondi
Better than lane. Paul needs to be watched as well.

[Dazzy]

Metabot - I'll get back to you as soon as Kondi answers my question (he's apparently waiting for lane to post before doing so). His answer may adjust my opinion of him, as well. Sorry for the delay.

[Dazzy]

kondi is a little puzzling, because he's wrong.
+1 to Time & CC.
PAul, could paranoia be a sign of newb, instead?

I think lane is a good candidate as any to quickly run up to L-1 in the early morning of Day 1.

It could. I might expect it from a raw newbie in their first game onsite. But as I said, that isn't consistent with the rest of his behavior.


As for answering Dazzy's question: I did it cause I felt like it, you should really go see a doctor about that two by four stuck up your ass. It was a fairly useless question anyways. Take a leaf out of Timeater's book, he's asking questions that actually matter.

On another note, CC is almost certainly town after that last post.

Oooohh defensive. Interesting. This is mafia Paul, if I'm not questioning your motivations for interfering with my play, then I wouldn't be doing a very good job would I?

Also, I didn't actually ask you to explain, but thanks for the non-answer. It's pretty obvious you did it because you "felt like it" otherwise you wouldn't have. I'm questioning

why

you felt like it.

And

I

have a stick up my ass?

Secondly. CC just made a case on Whiskers for basically buddying. Paul clearly liked the content of that post, so

why does he go ahead and do exactly what CC is criticising Whiskers for?

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Paul

[Dazzy]

Timeater, how are these questions useful?

@Whoever it was who asked the question about what part I liked best: I'm going to refrain from answering that until after lane comes in.

[Dazzy]

I'm following along. Paul would be my top pick for rope today. I'll have more soon, been travelling the past couple of days.

[Dazzy]

Ok doing a quick ISO of everyone. I'll post my basic thoughts on each and then go into a bit more depth for the ones that stand out.

BK201 - Not a lot of content(I have a feeling this will be said a few times in this post) but I get town vibes as of now. The Chrimi thing stands out, actually.
Chrimi - Holy fuck do something.
CC - Null-scum atm.

3 Days left til deadline? OK, we gotta step it up. I'm willing to vote kondi or paul, because I feel the town has a better chance taking a stab in the dark than going into Day 2 with possibly 2 less townspeople.

@CC - Do you actually believe kondi or paul are scum?
Elmo - Light town read. Again, mostly just vibes at this point.
Kondi - See Chrimi. A bit more complex, but for now I just don't know. The pure... We'll call it silliness for now, annoys the hell out of me but at the same time unless it's a gambit then I'm not seeing scum motivations at this point. Gut says town-ish. Null-town.
Lane - Early town tells are holding him as town for now. Town-null.
LordC - I like his TE case-post. Other than that, nothing meaningful. Null.
@LC: Clarify what you mean here please.

this game can wait till tomorrow. I have another game with deadline in 2 days and not alot of RL time right now

I kind of believe kondi, at least looks better than paul.
UNVOTE:
VOTE: paul

Agreeing with kondi and defending him? Not protown at all.

Metabot - See Chrimi. Weak scum vibes from his big post.
Papi - Null pending some kind of flip I think.
Paul - Scum. POssibly more below. Strongest read at the moment.
TE - See Chrimi. Damn that's a lot of sheeping. And in an unconstructive manner too... Scum-null
Whiskers - Complicated. I'm going to say null for now while I try to figure this out.

Sweet Troll Jegus there's a lot of people with little content. I don't even know if my reads account for 4 scum players at the moment...

I keep coming back to Paul, though.
Next post.

[Dazzy]

Anypony want to take note of my buddying with PAul?

Ok I'll bite. Why are you "buddying" Paul? Why did you make this post?

Paul case tomorrow.

[Dazzy]

Hi everyone. Sory about the absence, I've just started a new job which has eaten up more time than antiicipated. I'm figuring out a schedule so activity will be good again.

For now, I'll say I'm not terribly interested in a Whiskers lynch. As I mentioned before, I have an overall null read, basically nothing is really jumping at me or giving me town/scum vibes. I have people I can more easily see as scum and so would rather one of them for today.

As for Lane. One sentence: Early town-tells (namely being careless with posting) in combination with a generally null-read have me leaning laneTown, so I also would not be terribly interested in a lane lynch at this time. 1Null + 1Town + 0Scum = Null-town. (this is arbitrary by the way, not actual town points or w/e)

I know I promised a Paul case, sorry for not having it yet. I'll throw something together now and get it up for your perusal.

[Dazzy]

First: I put more stock in this than I know most people do, but Paul answered my question to Papi.

So, what motivation would Paul have to answer someone else's question?
1) Paul was worried Papi would give an incriminating answer. Interjecting saves Papi the trouble/gives him a guideline.
2) He was trying to be "helpful". Sure, but he also knows enough to apologise for answering the question. If Paul has experience in mafia, he knows that questions are tools. So any impulse to be "helpful" in such a way should logically be curbed by experience.

Both of these possible motivations still stand. A third option is related to "paranoia" and wanting to control the gamestate. Anyone who has watched a few Criminal Minds episodes is familiar with the killer inserting themself into the investigation to appear helpful/get off on it. Obviously a tv show/killing are different from this game, but I think the parallels are there. Paul wants people to like him and/or see him as a source of correct info, so he answers questions.

As soon as I call Paul out on this (and I didn't think I was being terribly confrontational), he gets defensive and upset. Like he's mad that I guessed right. We've been examining lane's defensiveness etc, but there's a great example of it in Paul's post 65.

In general, he is playing exclusively as a reactive player. He does not initiate, except for his CC townread. His reads are few and far between, and I see a lot of arguing without actually coming to conclusions/going anywhere. In short, he's not scumhunting.

Overall, looks to me like scum who can't form fake reads on people (except for town reads he "can't explain" (maybe there's inside info )), and got defensive and frustrated when he got a bit of suspicion.

Since this is a lot stronger than my feelings about anyone else so far, my vote stands.

[Dazzy]

@MOD: Prod on Lane please? Thanks.

[Dazzy]

Hmph. Psyche, you have prompted me to re-evaluate Kondi and look more closely at Whiskers. Well done in that respect. Back soon with the results.

[Dazzy]

"Soon."

<3

Whiskers is town for now. I've reviewed Psyche's stuff and while I can agree with some of his points, I feel Whiskers has done a decent job defending herself. I'm not seeing the scum motivation, and in several cases I find myself agreeing with her line of thought. For now that's good enough for me. I won't be voting her today unless something changes.

That being said, should future doubt arise, A something that

did

stand out while reading Whiskers:

...
PAul, could paranoia be a sign of newb, instead?

I think lane is a good candidate as any to quickly run up to L-1 in the early morning of Day 1.

Here Whiskers implies that lane's paranoia should/could be attributed to newbieness, but simultaneously declares he should be run up to L-1. The interactions with Paul actually are notable, but only if one of them should flip something unusual.

Holy shit, be Timeater again.

He was a useless piece of shit all day and play all these games

, but you're just fucking annoying.

I literally

just

got this. *clap*

Kondi is useless. Weak town from his idiocy. Weak scum from the rest. I can see him as scum and would be ok with a lynch. That's about it. Psyche did a relatively good job with his case.

[Dazzy]

Dazzy, could you explain what about kondi was reevaluated and how my post incited this activity?

My inital null-town read on Kondi was because of his stupid "Oh wrong game/How do you know there's 2 scumteams" stuff. I didn't think scum would be that careless/draw attention in such a fashion. I saw that and I kind of wrote him off for the time being. Your post drew my attention to his overall behaviour which has been, at best, anti-town in general. This prompted me to re-read and re-evaluate. Your points were decent, and I agreed enough with them that they, along with my own read-through, shifted my read.

Anything else?

>idiots still voting whiskers
>idiots still not lynching lane

Coming back to this game later.

But yea. I'm REALLY fucking frustrated.

You know what would be really convincing? Posting in bolded, giant capslock and calling everyone idiots. That ALWAYS makes lynches go through.

I'd be up for lynching this guy too.

[Dazzy]

EBWOP: In case it wasn't clear, I want more from you re:Lane, Alchemist. Caps and links followed by "lolheclaimedscum" just don't do it for me.

[Dazzy]

I just realised exactly how fucked the votes are at the moment...

[Dazzy]

Back and reading. The entirety of pages 12-20 is just a clusterfuck.

[Dazzy]

I will admit by the rules there's a chance I'm Mafia, but the truth there is known only to myself.

If you seriously cannot see this as obvscum, you are truly awful at mafia.

Once again I find it hard to argue with your solid logic.
Prod received. I am starting a modded game today but will post as soon as that is done. If you feel it necessary to replace me I'll understand.

[Dazzy]

This is a bad lynch. Not necessarily because of jackal's play but because of how it is building.

[Dazzy]

Not actively avoiding it, fulfilling modding responsibilities then coming over here.

[Dazzy]

Ok, so the issues with me stem from my interactions with lane, which I can understand. Looking at it the way Max did, sure, it could be seen as indirectly defending.
From my POV, however, I see:
When I attacked Paul, there were a LOT of people going after lane. I could have suspected almost anyone and you could make a similar argument.
Alchemist was using big letters and bullshit to push a lynch on a townread of mine (obviously an incorrect one), and I hadn't liked his earlier stuff anyways.
The D2 lynch went through within 4/5 pages. I saw a lynch going really goddamn fast and thought that was a bad thing. Didn't have time to say much else.

Now other people:
This will be slightly stream of consciousness, bear with me.

Alchemist: Almost surely not mafia due to strong attacks on lane since start of game. If he's bussing he's ballsy about it, but there is no real reason for him to do so.
However, I'm still thinking scum of some sort.
Actually, just did a quick ISO scan to figure out why I was thinking that. He'a abrasive and I don't like his style, but maybe my dislike is being confused with scumminess. Fuck it, alchemist might be town. If he's scum, it's with Papi methinks.
BK: I had an early townread on BK. Having done a quick re-read, I'm not seeing any reason to modify that as of now.

I think Alchemist's list of 1 town between CC/BK/Papi/Dazzy is mostly accurate, except I'd replace BK with Elmo and choose myself as the 1 town. I would be fine lynching CC or Papi today, I'm just having issues hammering down the third scum.
Elmo has been kind of a non-entity this whole game, just check out his ISO. Lurky, non-committal scum is an option there.
CC is just meh all around. Nothing saying town to me.
Wait, so
Town: Dazzy/BK(?)/Max/Elmo(?)/Alch(?)
Wolf: Papi/Alch/CC/Elmo
Maf: CC/Elmo/Papi/Hidden among townreads.

bleurgh. That's not very conclusive.

I'm interested in people's thoughts on Elmo actually.

Also - Thoughts on the masons claiming? We're in a dangerous situation anyways, maybe having that extra clear or two would be good?
I honestly don't know if that would be better than saving them until tomorrow for a more effective reveal. (I'm not a mason incase that wasn't clear)

VOTE: Papi

[Dazzy]

He's one of two that are almost surely scum. The question is what flavour.

Thoughts on masons?

[Dazzy]

EBWOP: I should probably look a bit harder at papi before making a claim like that. Nevermind the almost surely part.

[Dazzy]

Ok so clearly it's a bad idea according to max. That's all I was looking for.

I was just asking because I feel like with a couple more solid town reads I would have a much better grasp of the gamestate. If it's not a good idea then don't.