Open 423: Nomination Mafia(game over!)

[Nachomamma8]

This game is going to be beautiful, I feel it in my blood.

It's actually quite important that we hit scum today. Scum probably won't be ballsy enough to nominate themselves if we kill their partner today, meaning that the two nominated tomorrow that we don't lynch are confirmed town. So, I'm playing this game aggressively. Don't take it to heart too much, nothing is meant to be personal.

And with that, let's begin.
Shotty and Malee earn pretty strong townreads, and absta earns the honor of being the first caught scum of the game.

Vote: absta101

Mala, why did you announce intent to RVS Shotty on your phone? Did you want first post that badly?
Fennin, who ARE you voting for?

[Nachomamma8]

Malee has played scum a lot, and in most of her openings, she makes a concerted effort to be light-hearted while in this game she seemed pretty serious from the start. Plus she and absta were the only two to take a somewhat serious approach to RVS, and since scum usually try to emulate town in the RVS especially, I seriously doubt both scumpartners would take the odd-one-out serious approach.
Shotty, on the other hand, started out with a bit of mod-directed anger. Now, scum usually like to leave a good first impression, and Shotty gave up the nice-friendly guy persona first post for absolutely nothing, and is cross-voting with a person who I feel is likely scum.

Absta is scum based on being in the "serious approach to RVS" group with townMalee because I feel the entire scumteam isn't going to approach this game with their faked easygoingness, because he gave us as little as possible to work with in his posting, and because I have very tiny townreads on everyone save for him and Fennin.

And now that I've gone through all of that trouble to explain myself, I would love if you followed me onto the wagon or if you voted me. One more vote will bring him up to L-1 and will put him into a panic state that will allow me to confirm the read on him, whereas a vote on me means that a townie is starting a counterwagon that could lure out a partner that's trying to protect him.

[Nachomamma8]

Nacho, never thought that scum might bus their buddy and then nominate themself the next day to gain some town credits? Even if I admit that it would be a dangerous move for them.

If scum bus their buddy and then nominate themselves, they're essentially shooting themselves in the foot. A lone scum needs to dodge 2 lynches plus watch out for nomination lynches, which is a hell of a lot more dangerous than it sounds. Scum have no way of erasing threats in this game unless they are lynchable, which means that scum has to resort to a lot of OMGUSing and the like which makes them decently easy to catch. Plus the nomination system won't always get who they want killed, can turn on them at the drop of a hat, and also when they nominate themselves they hold back from nominating another threat.

So yeah, I thought about it, I doubt it's gonna happen.

In other news, would you like to be the chosen one in helping me build my beautiful Absta wagon? This could be the beginning of a wonderful friendship.

[Nachomamma8]

It's actually quite important that we hit scum today. Scum probably won't be ballsy enough to nominate themselves if we kill their partner today, meaning that the two nominated tomorrow that we don't lynch are confirmed town. So, I'm playing this game aggressively. Don't take it to heart too much, nothing is meant to be personal.

Why would this ever change your play style? Are you saying that you

don't

want to lynch scum first in every other game mode?

Can you link to your most recent scum game nacho?

My playstyle changes from game to game to suit my needs. Sometimes it's more advantageous to play a bit more passively when egos run rampant, sometimes it's advantageous to hold back while you solidify reads, sometimes it's advantageous to play cryptically because you don't know what the fuck's going on and you'd like to draw the kill.

As for my recent scumgame, I think that was White Flag in Team Mafia. You can find it yourself.

[Nachomamma8]

It's actually quite important that we hit scum today. Scum probably won't be ballsy enough to nominate themselves if we kill their partner today, meaning that the two nominated tomorrow that we don't lynch are confirmed town. So, I'm playing this game aggressively. Don't take it to heart too much, nothing is meant to be personal.

Why would this ever change your play style? Are you saying that you

don't

want to lynch scum first in every other game mode?

Can you link to your most recent scum game nacho?

My playstyle changes from game to game to suit my needs. Sometimes it's more advantageous to play a bit more passively when egos run rampant, sometimes it's advantageous to hold back while you solidify reads, sometimes it's advantageous to play cryptically because you don't know what the fuck's going on and you'd like to draw the kill.

As for my recent scumgame, I think that was White Flag in Team Mafia. You can find it yourself.

[Nachomamma8]

It's not LyLo. If we lynch wrong, we'll most likely have a chance to hit scum unless mafia put themselves in a pool that's 66% scum.
There are two scum this game, shotty. Two.

[Nachomamma8]

Are we reading the same wiki?

[Nachomamma8]

Okay, cool. Glad you're with us now. Care placing your vote back?

[Nachomamma8]

1. You don't tell the person who you're voting that you're voting for pressure.

I never said I was voting for pressure. It was pretty damn obvious to anyone with half a brain that my first vote was not a vote to lynch. I obviously wanted you to post again so I could at least feel somewhat confident when pushing for your lynch.

2. You don't tell everyone (which includes scum) the reactions you're looking for.

And yet, even when I do, scum somehow manage to fail the tests in almost every way imaginable.

This is vote worthy.
VOTE: Malee

This is an utterly terrible vote. Utterly, utterly terrible. Malee accusing Gunny of grabbing town credits was a pretty townie assertion, in my opinion. Why do you disagree?

[Nachomamma8]

Okay, this bit is for everyone else. The only bits were just bantering with caught scum.

So far, Absta's response screams scum. He sees me posting that I was bringing him up to L-1 to bring him up to panic mode, and he responds by pretty much ignoring the wagon on him. I don't like this because it doesn't really fall in line with his other games (see here) where he reacts and questions when he's voted, whereas here he sort of dismisses it and calls my vote on him bad not because of reasoning, but because I told him how I was expecting him to react. On top of that, he puts a poor vote on Malee that seems completely unfounded even though he already has a random vote down. It seemed like he was trying to make it seem like he was just keeping calm and scumhunting and not caring about the wagon on him too much. So I'm pretty confident in calling Absta scum now, and am looking for a second since we're so early into the day.

I'm also looking into taking one of Morton/Mala into the townread brigade, but I'm not sure which one quite yet.

[Nachomamma8]

Malee's accusation indicates she knows you're town ("in my opinion" of course). At best you have about 3 people who consider you town. The rest don't have any idea what alignment you're part of. How would listening to you gain town credit?

Well, let's see. Three people think I'm town. Add in me and we have the majority. So, following me means that they won't be lynched. That's earning town credit. The other three people don't matter.

Other games? You've referenced one.

I can reference more if you'd like, but it's a massive waste of time.

I swear I got lynched that game because of how I was reacting to my waggon. I self-hammered as well. Not the most representitive example of my town play. Nice try though.

I chose that game because you had an early wagon on you as town, and you reacted in a completely different manner.

Why are you lying? Not once have I called your vote bad. I assumed it was an attempt to get us out of the RVS stage so I didn't really care for it.

"This is where you've failed."
That generally doesn't mean warm and fuzzy reactions, absta.

[Nachomamma8]

Forgot to unvote at the end of my last post.

Why would you unvote at the end of your last post?

You already have the games noted then?. A simple link to the game would only take a few seconds.

Here, you respond to UN's vote as soon as he puts it down and questions him on it, even though Sens is pretty much lynched.
Here, although it is only two votes, you still react pretty fucking strongly.
Yet, both of those were different scenarios (the first was lategame, the second wasn't really a wagon that threatened to lynch you), so bringing up both of these examples was a complete waste of time just to prove that I've read through multiple games and not just one.

That's my worst game as town. It's not representitive. Too many variables are inconsistent.

Your worst play as town is still similar to your town play.
Which variables are you calling inconsistent here?

So we both assumed wrong then?

How did I fail if it wasn't with my vote?

"One more vote will bring him up to L-1 and will put him into a panic state"
This generally doesn't mean you're voting for anything other than pressure.

I wanted to bring you up to L-1 for the sake of others. If it were just me in control of the votes, you would've already been lynched and flipped scum.

[Nachomamma8]

You've basically already got the answer in your previous post. I realised you would have the majority thinking you're town therefore Malee's accusation is okay.

The difference in majority in 9 players and majority in 7 players is one person. Why would Malee's vote be invalid in a 9 player game?

Shotgun you were in that game (or anyone). Would you call post #57/66 a "fucking strong" reaction?

It was two votes in the early stage that people really didn't seem to care about, and yet you seemed genuinely concerned that you were being misunderstood.

If it wasn't for the exaggeration and ignoring my question twice I would have a town read on you for this. Not pointless at all actually.

But none of those were particularly conclusive because they were completely different situations, so they don't really point strongly to you being town or scum. And while I could do that for everyone and I'm sure some people could get a townread from it, it's still useless.

It isn't representitive of my town play as a whole. It's an extreme sample. You can't use it to determine if i'm town or not. Simply put, it isn't reliable.

I don't agree.

There's lots things that could affect my town play. Things like, the time of day (in game), the people i'm playing with (do I know them or not?), my role (PR or VT), if the waggon on me is for a lynch or pressure (are there people on the waggon who I believe don't find me scummy?), etc.

Okay, let's analyze.
They were both early game, so that's similar.
You don't know me, and I'm pushing the hardest.
Your role is a factor.
You interpreted this one as pressure while the other was for lynch.

So, the two main factors we have to analyze here are your role and your interpretation of the wagon. We can't know your role here, so we can't look at that.
So, we look at your interpretation of the wagon. In a wagon that you perceived as serious, you made an effort to make sure you weren't being misunderstood, and you fought to get the wagon off you. In almost all instances. So, when a wagon you don't perceive as serious forms on you and brings you to L-1, you respond mostly by dismissing it and ignoring it until you are prodded further. This doesn't really make sense. You can point to how circumstances here are different all you like, but it doesn't make sense that I haven't been able to really get a reaction from you despite pushing this mostly RVS wagon on you. You say you think the wagon on you was for pressure, but you were completely okay with leaving it on yourself? No questioning of the other people voting you at all? You're defending yourself and making weak attempts to scumhunt, but they seem forced. Why haven't you been able to form a read on me? I've been pushing you pretty hard already, it's page 2, and the most you've commented on me is "I don't have a townread", whereas people who have half the posts you do at this point already have more reads than you. That's not because you think this wagon is pressure, that's just because you're scum.

You failed at concealing the fact that it was a pressure waggon. I'll have to look back and see.

No. If a vote failed its purpose, then it was a bad vote.
Luckily, now that I've confirmed that I'm not voting you for pressure, you can attack my reasoning, which I have provided and will not requote.

[Nachomamma8]

You never act like this as town. My gut is screaming scum.

And yet you don't vote? Why?

Because you would not have the majority.

But why would that make Malee's vote scummy? It's still a sizeable number.

I learned this from an ongoing game (Open 411 page 1,2,3). I think it's fair for me to say that much.

Don't refer ongoing games, even like this.

It's RVS you can't work with anything. I don't know what to say. You picking me was okay but your continual push on me screams confirmation bias. I think i've explained myself adequately yet you won't even consider me being town. I would advise taking a step back and looking again with a clear mind.

Actually, yeah.
I was seeing if you would search for the case I provided if I ignored you long enough, if you would deny its existence, if you would give up, or if you would try to turn it into a scumtell against me.
You took the towniest path, congratulations.

[Nachomamma8]

Vote: Malakittens

You're posturing too much. Keeping the vote on absta while you don't find him particularly scum, throwing vague accusations at inte and then asking me and shotty our opinions of him, and then sounding much more sure of your vote when he asks you why you're voting him... All in all, it really doesn't seem like you're searching for scum right now, but you do seem concerned with appearing town.

in other words, good work shotty

[Nachomamma8]

V/LA for a week.

Hopefully I'll have a bit of access, but don't count on it. We still have lots and lots of time before deadline, but, in case you guys do reach a lynch, I really would prefer if you lynched in {Mala, Morton}. Absta is really really town, shotty, hiraki, and inte are all fairly town, with shotty being a wee bit townier than the other two.

[Nachomamma8]

cool

Vote: absta

[Nachomamma8]

Nacho wtf. I'm a strong town read to you. Your sudden 180 is scummy. Explain yourself.

You're not in the kind of position to demand things from me, good buddy.
Why do you think inte would nominate himself with you and gunny?

[Nachomamma8]

Shotgun hasn't been nominated.
Inte and nopoint have put suspicion on me that's why i've been nominated. Inte nominated himself because he's confident that i'll get lynched over himself.
If we can't no-lynch then

Inte is the best lynch regardless if scum nominated themselves or not

. If all three of us are town, Inte is the best lynch because he's been dodging questions and not posting reads that we can work with. If one of us is scum it's out of nopoint and Inte. Inte scum being more likely.

inte is the best lynch regardless of whether scum nominated themselves or not?
if scum nominated themselves, then why wouldn't the scum be the best lynch?

[Nachomamma8]

This is beyond stupid.

Caught for all the wrong reasons.
What a shame.

[Nachomamma8]

uhhh

hiraki???????????????????? that was pretty weak bro. i'm pretty sure you're scum for that, not gonna lie

inte can you help us lynch absta
please

[Nachomamma8]

why not nopoint, who has 5 posts

hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm i can see the wifom though

ugh you two are just killing me

we can lynch nopoint if you want
i'd really rather wouldn't

if any of you three were to nominate themselves up for a lynch as scum, it would be absta.
you probably wouldn't, not with the quickish hammer and the absta reaction
nopoint woulodn't, he just got here and can't really rely on you lynching each other. plus his statement before the flip seemed too WIFOMy even for nopoint.
then there's absta, who as we speak is trying to convince you to swing to nopoint when he was saying you were the only option just a moment before
my path is clear

[Nachomamma8]

What Nacho is choosing to ignore is that I know i'm town therefore naturally I don't give a shit who gets lynched out of us three.

Really?
Coulda fooled me.

[Nachomamma8]

This is pointless. If you think it would be wise in my position (as scum) to self-nominate, vote me.

holy shit

[Nachomamma8]

Hikari, stop voting. Scum can quickhammer, you know.

[Nachomamma8]

Hikari, what did you mean by saying that the absta flip really worried your read?

The absta flip says that scum probably didn't nominate themselves yesterday, but I wouldn't say that I'm confident enough to place the game on that. Shotty is pretty solidly scum today, but I'm not sure if Hikari is bussing or if one of you and no point is scum.

also there might be a lot of duplicates in coming. sorry in advance.