Open 417: Chosen Mafia - Heaven and Hell - Game Over!

[Thor665]

Excellent, we're speed lynching Arugula.

Vote: Arugula

[Thor665]

Unvote: Arugula
Vote: Kcdaspot

L-1

Someone should express willingness to hammer the obv. scum.

[Thor665]

Giitah is also fairly obv. town methinks.

Dick and Tech are playing in the pool but are still trying to prove they should be allowed in.

[Thor665]

You're able to figure out Giitah's alignment after one post, but not others after several posts?

Yes. Why is that odd to you?

You seem fairly confident in your reads there. Care to explain?

I'm a confident person so I tend to have confidence in myself and in my reads.

[Thor665]

@Techno - certainly;

Giitah had a very stream of consciousness post, unless we presume it was a double blind fakeout what we're seeing is an open expression of suspecting someone and then changing of his mind. Scum would, on average, tend to try to tidy things up as it where. Make the vote on Kcad seem more direct and "honest" feeling. The sloppy method of it while being willing to show the slim thoughts behind it screams honesty to me, and that says obv. town.

Kcdaspot went out of his way to avoid discussing quite relevant things in thread. Even if he's a total dweeb he should have at least decided to comment about the person put to L-2 on Page 1, and then in addition to that he adds in posting about how we need more input,a dn then even slaps on a vote as if he just realized maybe he should be reacting to stuff happening, yet *still* fails to comment on much of anything and immediately leaps on the most blatant derp newb in the vicinity with his vote. I'm calling that pretty excellently obv. scum right there.

Why'd you vote Kcdaspot the scum?

[Thor665]

Thor is just deliberately being a Smurfhole to rile me up. That's it, I think.

Thor's the only one you have to comment on?

Well, he wouldn't want to streak his usual streak of awesome win so...yeah.
Though do note, he's aware he's not giving reads, and is aware I'm scumhunting him and trying to get reads, and his solution is to continue with his totally pro-town action of being hard to read because it's so helpful to town in this setup.

For trying to seem even more town after people commenting on his towniness and knowing kcdaspot is town.

You've seen this as a scum tactic before, or are you saying this is what you would do in that situation if you were scum?

@Tech - The "dweeb" was non-specific but could apply to a couple of players this game. And if you think Psyche doesn't look like easy lynchbait then either I'm really losing my touch or you have deeper knowledge of his play. What's your experience with the lurktastic lump?

@Kcadspotscum - what's your experience with, and read of, Pysche?

[Thor665]

@Tech - my Psyche experience is tied up in an ongoing but, suffice to say, I found his playstyle to be equivalent to lynchbait.
Check out his unvote in this game and remind me why I should think he's remotely paying attention to the game...yeah.

Kcadaspotscum has also decided to play the 'too cool to comment on his impending lynch wagon' card. Now I really want him dead.

[Thor665]

His unvote doesn't suggest 'not paying attention' to me. There was a player on L-1, and from memory Psyche's vote, that was adding to this wagon, was a random vote, so it makes sense to me that he unvoted.

Check the point he was made L-1, with commentary from me and that melting muffin avatar town guy thing.
Check how "subtle" it i.

Check out Psyche's next post.
Then the further conversation.
Then the unvote post.
Then look at the time date stamps from the point of being L-1, his next post, and then his unvote post.

Then explain to me AGAIN why I should think he's paying attention to the game.
Thanks!

[Thor665]

I guess it's a melting cat.

[Thor665]

Smurf your lynch on me. i expect a 100 word apology when i flip chosen.

YES I THINK IM CHOSEN.

So now the plot is to act really derp to make me not want to lynch you?
It isn't working.

[Thor665]

y so tunnel guise?

Because you're scum, and I've explained why, and you're too scared to address it and will choose to act like I haven't said why already and ask me 'why' in a cute manner using bad dialect.

@Arugula - Specifically, why do you think Kcdaspot is Chosen? To clarify - if I had voted for someone who wasn't made a large wagon would that make that person Chosen, or would Kcdaspot remain Chosen.

Also, logical fallacy ho! I look forward to mocking you later and getting you lynched.

[Thor665]

Actually - fun question time;

@Kcdaspot - pretend you're scum (okay, pretend you're town pretending to be scum, natch) - you have a veto, who do you use it on and why?

@Arugula - Who would you have vetoed and why?

[Thor665]

@Techno - actually, I'd like you to take a crack at the Veto question too.

[Thor665]

Arugula is scum. Either kdaspot or gitah is his partner.

Then vote Kcdaspot.

Thor, I fail to see the point of your questions.

Then be quiet until people answer them before asking me derp questions.

BTW, Technow is town clearly. He didn't know that scums get to find out who the chosen ones are. Incidentally, I didn't know that either. But I guess it's too late for me to use that as my town tell.

Then Near gaks with me and combines a pretty solid town tell with the above derp and scummy defense question.
Meh.

I'm calling it derp town who doesn't realize how dumb that question was to ask, and in minor defense it wasn't a directed question more of an open musing.
Near can be town.

[Thor665]

Finally, I take back what I said about kcdaspot or gitah being Argula's partner. While kcdaspot is still scummy - like Arugula - for trying to make us believe that he's a chosen one, I mixed up kcdasopt with Gitah, who showcased his "genuinely conscious town" for threatening to lynch whoever quick hammers. Which obviously doesn't make sense, because kcdaspot was the one who was close to lynch at the time.

Gitah is probably town though so using him as the barometer to decide a scum pair seems not brilliant to me.
I'll agree Gitah is not scum with Kcadspot though...but, I kinda already thought that.

[Thor665]

You think 'Near can be town' is noncommittal *and* buddying?

Derp much?

And, yes, you caught me, I'm defending my buddy because I want to lynch my top suspect who you indicated belief in as a top suspect as well. How clever of you, town never does that.

[Thor665]

Except (again - derp) you just got done explaining understanding it was random vote, so...?

[Thor665]

Also, I defended Gitah - we're a 3 man team with Arugula. You never saw it coming.
Seriously, dude, I can see your join date. Extract head from buttocks (or, if this is reaction testing do...y'know, one that is remotely any good?).

[Thor665]

It's true - no need to force it and I admit I did exactly the votes he said I did.

I'll happily agree that the case is about three shades of silly if you want me to say that out loud. But...last I checked all the scum PMs didn't go to people who make silly cases (otherwise it's you/Arugula, natch). I was honestly more intrigued to see what momentum it did or didn't get and also see his response to my questions about the logic of the case before I chose to apply alignment opinion. The conclusions matter less than the motivations in my experience.

[Thor665]

@Argulua - trololol on same opinion of the validity of the true parts of your case...but.

The question you dodged was this: If I had voted someone who HADN'T almost been a lynch (and hadn't voted for Kcdaspot) would that person be the Chosen, or would Kcdaspot still be the Chosen?

@Kcdaspot - who lynched you and for what stated reasons and who stayed off the wagon and for what stated reasons? I can't answer question that complicated in a void without having the answer being incredibly pointless.

[Thor665]

I think my response was pretty clear - you asked me to offer an opinion on wagon analysis without having the wagon to analyze, that's a question I could only answer in the most useless way unless you give me the theoretical wagon info.

Currently you are my only scum read. What of it?

[Thor665]

srsly you dont your eye on anyone else?

I have stated 1 scum read.
I have stated 3 town reads.
I have provided 4 clearly stated reads.

Please list for me ever other player who has provided more reads than I have in this game. (hint - no one else has)

[Thor665]

@Thor
In that case, kcdaspot wouldn't be the chosen because there would be no reason to draw that conclusion.

So I was just really lucky that town ran both of the Chosen up to almost lynch situations so I could vote each of them. Why not just call me 'opportunistic scum' why does it have to make you and Kcdaspot Chosen? Why not just town I'm trying to mislynch?

sooner or later you gotta have other people on your lynch list. AND NO IM NOT FORCING YOU TO GO ON WAGON ANALYISIS. just by the thread so far from what you read.

You asked me for my reads if you were lynched and flipped town. I call that wagon analysis - you can call it rhubarb roulette if you wish - but you need to give me info on who voted who and why if you expect any real reads off the revelation of that flip. Otherwise just ask the question as "Mod confirms me as town, who would you vote next?" because then I could probably answer it.

The answer would be - whoever has the largest wagon at that point if they aren't one of my stated town reads.

the second you dont have them and i flip town or chosen you're in a big hole.{/quote]

what about arugala/psyche/or tech?

I've called Tech town.
the other two I've called derpy and useless respectively - I see them as fine lynches but have a strong preference for you.
Wow, almost as though if you read what I've said you could have answered that yourself.

Oh, right, scum trying to slap defend.
Never mind.

@Near - I'll presume the defense of me and avoidance of response means that you realize I'm obvious town. The apology is accepted.

[Thor665]

@Thor
I would think that scum would go after Chosen townies instead of regular ones.

I understand that.

But, even if I'm super scum - I didn't magically create those two wagons so...why did the first two wagons that get big so I could vote for them both happen to be on the two Chosen?
That's the question.

[Thor665]

They might not be, and I know my logic is flawed, but I don't have anything else better to go on right now.

If the logic is flawed, what are you getting out of voting me and admitting it's a flawed (read that - derp) case?

You realize that it only requires grand total of

2 votes

for you to hop on the bandwagon to make it L-2.

Yes.
It took 3 to allow me to make one of the wagons L-1.
The point stands though. It would require X amount of townies to also decide to ramp up 2 players in a row that were both Chosen.
I accept my actions could look like opportunistic scum, I'm trying to figure out why he brought Chosen into it which is an even further theoretical reach with far less grounding. You're *not* interested in his reactions to these questions?

New derp theoretical and totally unfounded scumteam in the Near style.
Near/Arugula.

@Near - link to some recent town games of yours?

[Thor665]

@Thor
Who are your three town reads? Myself, Techno and...

I will answer this, but will note that I am unpleased with your reading comprehension.

Near is the third.

@Giitah - your read on Kcdaspot?

[Thor665]

^^ (now with a new post you need to skip past Arugula back to Giitah) I functionally already did this, but would like to point out another example of legit scumhunting from Giitah that makes my read on him correct.

I'm going to make a Thor/Tech/Near/Giitah town coallition of win and eat the scum team this game.

[Thor665]

Shattered Viewpoint and Hyperion need votes in play, the current wagon situation is awesome otherwise.

[Thor665]

Good, ISOs are totally the best thing ever and I always read then from people who replace in - reading the thread as it happened with all the interactions easily connected is so passe'.

[Thor665]

I don't think you understood my sentence at all - I was confirming you in a way additional to the one I'd already done.
I don't think I've ever played with Near prior to this, this is almost an entirely new playerlist for me (save for Kcdaspot and dicknose...and maybe Arugula, though I'm not certain on that one)

[Thor665]

I fail to grok how using Olde English somehow makes it odd that I decry poor reading skills - indeed, it seems rather a likely pairing as you've identified me as a likely lover of reading/the written word/language.
Derp. <-- not Auld English.

I like the new vote though, you can stay in the alliance of win because you amuse me...and are pretty bleedingly town too.

[Thor665]

I'll agree on the coast, but would counter that it wouldn't be a change from the coasting every other player is doing thus far.
Still, if you think hope springs eternal I'll give you a chance to be disappointed in due course.

Is the Giitah read a scum read, or just a null read not yet sold on one way or the tuther?

[Thor665]

Thinking that people will lurk less.

[Thor665]

Also, funny realization post.

With this post I'm now making, I just exceeded Kcdaspot's number of posts in this game.
Please compare my content provided with his and note he hasn't posted for 48 hours.

Then please lynch him.

[Thor665]

Tech is costin and thor is charging is a sword and shield type deal. i need to recheck this but i just dont think they have made much mention of each other.

I've called him town numerous times, and keep mentioning him insomuch as I keep asking for his reads and opinions and reactions.
This is a 'reads' reply that is built to leave town with little of use after you expire. Also known as - a scum last will and testament.

the only thing i can ask is this: Thor: when i flip town, chosen or otherwise (i'm still 100 percent on if i am or not.) will you PLEASE give the "town leader ball" to someone else or just bin it?

Who would you like to see leading town?
Why are you not leading town?

[Thor665]

What about them is so townish? I'm missing it.

[Thor665]

@Near - still waiting on a link to a town game of yours.

The Arugula case, last I checked, was mostly based off just how terrible his case on me was. This case does resonate with me, and I have no town energy to speak of from him, but the core feels like we might just be lynching him for being a "bad player" wheres Kcdaspot feels like a scummorz. What am I missing here?

[Thor665]

And dear gawd, I just looked at the activity overview and wept.

People should replace out or start playing.

[Thor665]

Do you have a link to this "good player" Arugula?

[Thor665]

Everyone needs to pick it up.[/list]

That is actually not true.
About 2/3rds of the player list need to 'pick it up'.
I'll take this as admission that you're prodding some of the people who are going on days without posting though.

[Thor665]

My recent town games are ongoing, where I am dead in all of them. Research and you will find them.

Just link me to a completed one, the most recent completed one - that shouldn't be tough.

So if kcdaspot flips town would you be convinced that Arugula is scum? He last minute changed his vote followed which was followed by sudden miraculous appearance by Shattered Viewpoint to quick lynch.

Eh...I'm going to tend to bet that Shattered is the same alignment as Kcdaspot - so town if town, and scum if scum.
Arugula just looks like a terrible player still though the attitude change does look awkward. I'd tend to suspect the reverse of the above, scum if town and town if scum, quite frankly.

What makes you think both scum had to chain up in a row to nail the super difficult and hard to lynch Kcdaspot, though? That sounds pretty derpy as a scum plan and I highly doubt it happened.

[Thor665]

If he flips scum am I confirmed town?

[Thor665]

So you're saying you will flip scum?
Thanks for the confirmation!

You may all worship me now, and, yeah, I'm confirmed town.

[Thor665]

Arugula actually does look less likely scum in that setup, as his baby whining makes no sense if Kcdaspot is a scumbuddy. Same for Near. I'd say lynch Shattered next. Bus action was bussy.

[Thor665]

Yeah, I'm saying Shattered, and then maybe Hyperion next. Arugula and Near would be pretty much assured town. Tech remains a strong read.
Beyond that...I dunno, I'll be long dead, but will happily be gloating and cheering from the Dead QT.

[Thor665]

Giitah is fairly proven obv. town for 284 as well.
My reads were awesome this game!

@Kcdaspot - sorry, dude, too much easy to spot town early on, you were a bit more PoE than a real case.

[Thor665]

It shall.

Where are your last reads, Mr. Town? We have all this time and you "know" how scummy I am that you need to warn everyone about me in some sad wifom bucket? Shouldn't you, y'know, point out how I'm scummy? Maybe give your thoughts on who is town, or who is scum? Instead you just groan about how stupid we are, act annoyed you got nailed, and basically confirm Giitah as town due to your interaction with him? This is called scumdeath, my dear friend, not town death.

[Thor665]

Hurm.

Tech town comes as no surprise.
Shattered is likely town simply because, barring a shot to nail Chosen that hammer was so bad I'm not able to buy any Mafia risking it.
Giitah is still town.
Near is still town.

Vote: Arugula

Counterwagon is counter and a wagon.

[Thor665]

I'm guessing by that vote you agree Giitah and Shattered are town, yes?

[Thor665]

You do that in a vacuum of opinion about Giitah and Shattered?

Quick pop quiz - what is your opinion of my 'clearing Shattered' case? Agree/disagree?

[Thor665]

You're clearly not PoEing this sucker, so what's your made up case?

[Thor665]

I'll consider it if I never bag scum.

[Thor665]

That's awesome that you'd like to self-pleasure yourself for a while off my brilliance.

Now please vote or do something remotely useful with me thinking you're town.

[Thor665]

Killing Tech also would deny me of one of my stronger supporters as long as you want to throw around random theories.

Also, who were the easy lynches I pursued?
Also, who were the 'hard' lynches I avoided that were thought of as town before *I* called them town.
Take your time working that stuff out - your case is amazing and I don't want anyone to miss it.

[Thor665]

@Hyperion - that's still off your case from yesterday, or do you have any new reads?

[Thor665]

I have a history with Shattered Viewpoint?

[Thor665]

Also, for Thor scum games - going back into my list I'm a bit mauled by Tigers and whatnot but here are two recent ones...

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=21878 - this one had town steamrolling us, so it's a good example of me using almost every dirty scum trick I know.
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=54&t=19643 - Me as an SK...it was eaten by Tigers, but I'm proud of it because I open claimed SK on Day 1 and still won, so...hey, it's me being cheeky SK for a few pages.
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=50&t=18641 - Mafia in a losing effort again, I was 'off' near the end but the beginning is pretty normal scum Thor.
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=50&t=18563 - Thor as scum who goes to lylo despite multiple confirmed towns...tough game and I almost won it.
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=50&t=17689 - another grind game...I do those a lot as scum, I'm caught early and no one lynches me.
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=52&t=18531 - one of my favorite recent scum wins - open claimed as scum, ate werewolves, smashed town, trolololol.


http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=50&t=17796 - not scum, but I owned Albert in this game and ate his partner for dessert.

That should be plenty of meta for meta purposes methinks.

[Thor665]

Yeah, once upon a time.

Hurm.

Nail remembers longer than the hammer I suppose.
For me it was Tuesday

[Thor665]

I feel like a broken record.

@Near - I appreciate a good sheeping as much (more) as the next guy - but are you just sheeping me? Are you going off your case from yesterday? What is your opinion of my logic to clear Shattered considering your case?

[Thor665]

I am unamused by that death.

Vote: Shattered Viewpoint

Scum should die.

[Thor665]

(5)[L-0!]Kcdaspot - TeChNoWC, Thor665, Giitah, Arugula, Shattered Viewpoint,

(3)Arugula - Near, Kcdaspot, Hyperion,
(1)Hyperion - dicknose,

Oh, that's the case.

[Thor665]

Hyperion or Near for likely buddy, natch.
I lean Hyperion.

[Thor665]

Unvote:

Actually, considering Arugula's flip maybe I'll re-read Hyperion and Near together.
But I'm coming back to speed lynch the scum later.

[Thor665]

Though it seems stupid to think that was the best scum could manage as a strategy...I'm still leaning nailing Shattered.

[Thor665]

#324 by Applejack tends to scream that Shattered is scum, because then that kill makes perfect sense and me being alive also makes perfect sense.

Going back I'm reminded why Near is town due to the Tech catch - strong town tell still.
Psyche was balls useless. Hyperion is a wave of wet dishwater.
They don't interact much with Near nor he with them outside of opening RVS shenanigans. Bleh.
So, Giitah is town, Near is almost assured town, scum had to get in a kill on the Chosen at some point prior to lylo. The strongest player that thought Shattered wasnt cleared was killed, and the strong player who was announcing him as confirmed town is alive.

Vote: Shattered Viewpoint

Yeah, we're doing this.

[Thor665]

If it is indeed somehow Hyperion and Near or Giitah through some magical sweep then...good job. I was owned.

[Thor665]

lovely quick lynch, btw.. I never even got a post in.

will reread.

It was five days long...

Check out 341 and 342 for fairly clear evidence of the Hyperion/Shattered team.
After a couple of people post and there's no quick lynch I'll have proven that at least one of me or Shattered is scum. And I have a beard, so it is him.
Then you guys will lynch one of us.
Not much to re-read - just look at the two of us and maybe for partners to the two of us (and, if paranoid - partners between us...but, no).

[Thor665]

I'm currently trying to figure out the optimal play strategy here.

1. Wait to see if anyone comes along and runs a quicklynch on Shattered Viewpoint.
2. Once he votes me, wait to see if it happens to me.
3. If neither happens - lynch one of us 50/50 for scum off a coin flip - better if you engage brain.

[Thor665]

Near hasn't been on site since I voted.
Shattered has a hidden profile so who knows.

But Hyperion...Hyperion *has* been on since I voted, yet had nothing to say.

Mwu-hahahaha!

You may all worship me later. Pwned, scumm0rz!

[Thor665]

And, pop, here he is.

How's it going, Hyperion - who do you think is the scum, me or Shattered?

[Thor665]

Or, actually, in your case, you either have to claim *both* me and Shattered are scum (and I'm just a dick as a partner) or that one of Giitah or Near are town - feel free to sell me on that one.

[Thor665]

*Or that one of Giitah or Near are scum

[Thor665]

And while we're at it, sure, tell me why you didn't post - I'd love to hear that too.

[Thor665]

Giitah didn't sheep me on Day 2 - so it's only one day of sheeping needed to look like scum for that?

[Thor665]

And while we're at it, sure, tell me why you didn't post - I'd love to hear that too.

[Thor665]

Why would scum shattered have killed you?

[Thor665]

Because you think he's scared of your mighty town play?

[Thor665]

You've shown a marked inability to do much with him thus far - so I guess he could be scared theoretically, but no partner would be.

If you clear Giitah and are certain it's not Shattered and I together then why aren't you voting Hyperion? (though please don't, I'm just asking)

[Thor665]

BUT Shattered had NO SUPPORT FROM ANYONE.

You...did read ME yesterday right?
Y'know, as *I* was his support that they left alive - derp-de-doo.

[Thor665]

"I'm not sure I buy Thor665's logic about Shattered Viewpoint being less likely scum "

And here's Applejack responding (about ME again, natch) giving his views on what was going down as regards Shattered.
yeah, so I'm scm because Shattered wouldn't have killed his awesome Applejack support...bwuh? That doesn't make sense, does it? Because if it makes sense I'm missing it.

[Thor665]

SHattered and Giitah. Shattered fo playing like crap, and Giitah for basically sheeping you.

Hyperion setting up to put Shattered at L-1 following his scum partner THOR.

Easy target guys?

That part at least makes theoretical sense - but answer my question now.

[Thor665]

Though it makes as much sense as a 'prep buss' comment too.
Whatever - answer my question, your case is either dumb or you are scum, and I'm sadly betting on dumb.

[Thor665]

Why was Giitah not killed then, you derp? He was thought of as more townish and by more people. *I'm* the strongest town proponent you've had.

[Thor665]

Oh, wait, I figured out my master plan, argue and prove to others that you and Giitah are town - defend Shattered one day, then use all my prowess to make him the mislynch the next day because I know he's going to power hammer a Chosen which is something scum needed to happen to even win the game. I'll call out my scumbuddy for lurking (and declared proven success when he responds) while I'm at it, because that's normal.

Edit: Oh dear gawd, I'm actually going to have to do this, aren't I?

[Thor665]

And it is also possible that gitah and you are scum team. HAHA.

GITAH AND THOR

Explain that fuggin' Giitah as scum read. Now.

[Thor665]

Gitah also thought I was town, I believe. So did Applejack. And Hyperion.

But more importantly: Gitah may not have gone after shattered. It was easily predicted that I would have.

THEREFORE, you didn't kill me. You wanted me to vote Shattered. Then your scum partner would have quick lynched.

I checked this;

Giitah didn't call you town till...wait for it...TODAY.
Boom. Owned.

Hyperion had you as a "null slight lean town"
Boom. Owned.

Applejack thought you were town because he was smart enough to see the stuff I also saw.

Your case is based off you being a derp who took me pointing out you being town over and over and decided everyone did.
You take me out of the equation than that falls apart as anything - especially as something scum was planning for.

The rest of your case is confirmation bias - you have decided Shattered is town because he's suspected as opposed to being scum who is suspected. They didn't waste a kill on you because you've been unable to push through a lynch, and haven't actually been thought of as very town except by me.

[Thor665]

Why was Giitah not killed then, you derp? He was thought of as more townish and by more people. *I'm* the strongest town proponent you've had.

You defending Gitah

That's why Giitah is scum?
Then YOU are scum too you IDIOT.

[Thor665]

Oh dear gawd, I'm actually angry at this game.

[Thor665]

@Near - if that's a reaction test you have it, now unvote and look at what you've got.

If that is a serious vote then you have some serious issues and you do need to respond to them.

1. I've shown that you were not a strong town slot to the rest of town, which drastically weakens your need to be a nightkill.
2. If Shattered is just the poor mislynch du jour how do you explain his actions for the Chosen lynch.
3. A Giitah/Thor scumteam gets incredibly stupid (partly just for your case) but also if you look at the lynch on Day 1.
4. Besides wanting Shattered dead today (because it's crazy I have a scum read on him via PoE and VCA like I showed) what's the actual case on me - if any? Because if that's ALL the case is, unvote and think about it a bit first, because it's terrible.

[Thor665]

SO... UM... you are saying that hyperion thought i was slight lean town and applejack and you thought I was strong town. So 3 people thought I was town and no one suspected me of being scum... How many people are there total? 5? Subtract me, there are 4? So only Gitah didn't express his opinion that I was town. 3/4 Right?

BOOM. OWNED

That;s one floaty read and two unexpressed reads.
So, yeah, 3/5 of the town hadn't called you town.

I was not owned. I already proved your Giitah thing was you not actually recalling what was happening. that's all well and good on other days - but not in LYLO. Get your facts straight before you try to use it as a scum case, that's just common bloody sense.

If you are town, this is terrible.

[Thor665]

1. No, you haven't.
2. So did I, but there's a difference when it was a speed hammer on a reverse opinion lynch of Chosen when he was the other top suspect of the day.
3. You still haven't actually explained this in anything close to being rational. Why is Giitah scum? If it's just because I've defended him...as already discussed, that would make you scum too, and I presume you don't think that's the case.
4. Oh dear gawd - that is terrible circular logic. I'm scum because I want town Shattered to be lynched. Shattered is town because I want a lynch of him. That isn't actually a case, that is derp using fancy words.

[Thor665]

Except for the buddying me HARD all game, which I didn't think was suspicious until now, I don't have much case on you. Actually, you lynched two townies. But general FEEL of your posts don't feel scummy.

I went out of my way to fight hard for that town read everyone had, didn't I. Crazy that. Thank gawd I knew all the you and Shattered meta so I could foresee this moment and know you'd want to help lynch him so I had to make sure you survived and were on my good side for this moment. I am a cunning Smurf.

BUT: the fact that I strongly believe shattered is town, and you quickly attempting to lynch him IS strong scum tell.

No.

[Thor665]

Also, while we're at it, half of Applejack's logic he was discussing was how Shattered had a history with me and would fear *me*.

But clearly he'd fear you so much more and yadda-yadda hey.

[Thor665]

Huzzah - lacking a speed lynch on either of us will now assure that one of us is the lynch.
Then we'll lynch Shattered.

[Thor665]

So I'm the lynch because I look less like scum and, you believe me playing as scum I'd look like town.

At least half of that is stupid because if I'm smart enough, as scum, to play like town - I'm also smart enough as town to look like town. Derp.

So it's just a question of if you think Shattered is scummy as hell for being derp town planned to be a mislynch or if he's scummy as hell because he's town. The case on me is derp and paranoia and only the paranoia is worth discussing (please stop throwing the derp at me at least, it's stupid. The paranoia at least makes sense and won't make me hate you to read because it's at least a compliment.).

[Thor665]

As long as you guys want to talk paranoia with me - also at least consider busted scum on Dat 2 that went for the quickhammer and the Hyperion lurk.
Seriously.

[Thor665]

^^^
Scum not liking Thor lynch chances.
He calls Shattered scum but doesn't vote for him - derp de doo, not setting up a buss or anything for later, nothing to see here.

What else can you say to dissuade my paranoia?

I can't.

You admit I look town and that the basis of wanting to lynch me is because of that. ::shrug::
All I can possibly say is - sometimes a fruit tastes like an orange, smells like an orange, and looks like an orange because it is an orange.

[Thor665]

I would help lynch Hyperion.
I'm game for either he or Shattered.

[Thor665]

Even if he flips scum you can't clear me...since, y'know, the more town I look the stronger your case is.
I just wanted you to know what I was going to do if he was put in hammer range (or, frankly, if even one person votes him).

[Thor665]

The important question is why, in LYLO, that Hyperion is so confident as to call a scum team of Giitah and Shattered, and *vote* for it...but not vote the player who is already being voted.

I have a theory...

[Thor665]

Shattered/Hyperion.

Derp.

[Thor665]

So, pretty much at this stage, Thor and Hyperion are the scum and Thor decided to be a royal ass to his partner.
Or...(and bear with me here)
Shattered is scum and needs death today, and Hyperion is his buddy.

I'll still happily flip to Hyperion if that is what we'd like, you guys can talk it out amongst yourselves as, short of self hammer, I know there's no risk of quickhammer here.

[Thor665]

I am amused by the ballsiness of the claim...and *then* vote.

kcdaspot is going to be due here any moment to start raging though.

[Thor665]

You were the man with one eye in the kingdom of the blind, my friend. Sorry.

[Thor665]

near is a waffle. and scum.

Giitah just STFU. you will not stop the rape train that is thor.

Alas poor kcdaspot - they never listen to anyone after death.
Ever.

[Thor665]

@Shattered - if you were on to me as scum I don't think the RVS vote shows it. The vote today was okay, but you should have been more active and tried to push the lynch through. Your silence left me and Near too much in control of the conversation of the day.

[Thor665]

How'd Near come off as town for the entire game? I had him null for the entire game.

Heck if I know, I just kept repeating it because people were listening to my reads and I saw no need to buss.
Mostly he was quiet and usually posted questions without giving opinions - people usually seem to like that.

[Thor665]

I don't understand how everyone saw him as townie, though -- he posted opinions, fair, but his opinions almost all calling the scumteam, which, has always come off to me as being very decisively null... or is that different depending on the person?

Oh, I agree, I think your mistake was in calling him obv. town due to other people. Let's review the Near=town crew.

Thor - a scumbuddy, started it and was loud about it.
Tech - basically agreed but based his logic off Thor town as well.
Applejack - strongly stated read after replace in.

That's really it, everyone else was mostly just fluffing it and not offering real reads. That's not exactly a massive plurality that you should listen to if you disagreed with the read (take a look at how many people called you town - everyone but Hyperion pretty much) Big difference in read strength.

btw, thor, you're a monster. However, it looks like I'll still be subscribing to lynching the towniest player in LyLo, then.

It's actually not an intrinsically bad strategy - of course the reverse would have been that you were actually the towniest player, so keep that in mind, we brought you to lylo just fine with the plan of having you there.

@Near - I'm fine posting the Mafia QT if you are (I think I'm the only one who mocked anyone in it )

[Thor665]

Mafia QT

Mostly an exercise in poor timing for communication - but we do have some decent discussion of our strategy that might be helpful for those who were killed or not killed.

[Thor665]

For me, because you and Giitah were the least likely to be lynched and therefore should die. I preferred killing you because I thought you would be the harder mislynch, your reads mattered very little to me in choosing your death, your lynchability mattered a great deal.

[Thor665]

I wanted more closure from the departure of the good god, once the demons got the second chosen lynched I kind of wanted to see him crying like a man child

I liked the fluff!

[Thor665]

Unless I'm town, then don't listen to him, because I'm planning to run a train on scum.