Open 423: Nomination Mafia(game over!)

[absta101]

VOTE: Shotty
Ha!

[absta101]

@Nacho

One more vote will bring him up to L-1 and will put him into a panic state that will allow me to confirm the read on him, whereas a vote on me means that a townie is starting a counterwagon that could lure out a partner that's trying to protect him.

This is where you've failed.
1. You don't tell the person who you're voting that you're voting for pressure.
2. You don't tell everyone (which includes scum) the reactions you're looking for.
---

@Malee

Yes, drmyshotgun, it is for real. Or was that sarcasm?

VOTE: drmyshotgun

Trying to gain town credits for listening to Nacho?

This is vote worthy.
VOTE: Malee

[absta101]

@Nacho

I obviously wanted you to post again so I could at least feel somewhat confident when pushing for your lynch.

Could you restate your initial case on me please.

And yet, even when I do, scum somehow manage to fail the tests in almost every way imaginable.

Time to explain it then.

Malee accusing Gunny of grabbing town credits was a pretty townie assertion,

in my opinion.

Why do you disagree?

So my vote is terrible because I don't share the same views as you. Good to know.
Malee's accusation indicates she knows you're town ("in my opinion" of course). At best you have about 3 people who consider you town. The rest don't have any idea what alignment you're part of. How would listening to you gain town credit?

I don't like this because it doesn't really fall in line with his other games (see here) where he reacts and questions when he's voted, whereas here he sort of dismisses it and calls my vote on him bad not because of reasoning, but because I told him how I was expecting him to react.

1. Other games? You've referenced one.
2. I swear I got lynched that game because of how I was reacting to my waggon. I self-hammered as well. Not the most representitive example of my town play. Nice try though.
3. Why are you lying? Not once have I called your vote bad. I assumed it was an attempt to get us out of the RVS stage so I didn't really care for it.

not caring about the wagon on him too much.

Yeah, you're right, I don't care.
----

@Shotgun

There are 3 Scums in this game.

What made you think this in a 7 player game?
----
Okay, I've just realised there's only 7 players. I thought there was 9...

[absta101]

@Nacho

Well, let's see. Three people think I'm town. Add in me and we have the majority. So, following me means that they won't be lynched. That's earning town credit. The other three people don't matter.

Yeah, I thought there were more players.
Forgot to unvote at the end of my last post.
UNVOTE:

I can reference more if you'd like, but it's a massive waste of time.

You already have the games noted then?. A simple link to the game would only take a few seconds. Unless you don't have the games noted. Then it would take a longer amount of time. The fact that you offer to reference more games whilst saying it would take massive amounts of time indicates that you plan to search through my completed games finding evidence to prove your theory instead of altering your theory to suit evidence.

I chose that game because you had an early wagon on you as town, and you reacted in a completely different manner.

That's my worst game as town. It's not representitive. Too many variables are inconsistent.

That generally doesn't mean warm and fuzzy reactions, absta.

So we both assumed wrong then?

1. You don't tell the person who you're voting that you're voting for pressure.

I never said I was voting for pressure.

"One more vote will bring him up to L-1 and will put him into a panic state"
This generally doesn't mean you're voting for anything other than pressure.
--
What was your initial case on me Nacho?

[absta101]

@Nacho

Why would you unvote at the end of your last post?

You've basically already got the answer in your previous post. I realised you would have the majority thinking you're town therefore Malee's accusation is okay.

although it is only two votes, you still react

pretty fucking strongly.

Wait, what? Why are you exaggerating?
Shotgun you were in that game (or anyone). Would you call post #57/66 a "fucking strong" reaction?

so bringing up both of these examples was a complete waste of time just to prove that I've read through multiple games and not just one.

If it wasn't for the exaggeration and ignoring my question twice I would have a town read on you for this. Not pointless at all actually.

Your worst play as town is still similar to your town play.

It isn't representitive of my town play as a whole. It's an extreme sample. You can't use it to determine if i'm town or not. Simply put, it isn't reliable.

Which variables are you calling inconsistent here?

There's lots things that could affect my town play. Things like, the time of day (in game), the people i'm playing with (do I know them or not?), my role (PR or VT), if the waggon on me is for a lynch or pressure (are there people on the waggon who I believe don't find me scummy?), etc.

How did I fail if it wasn't with my vote?

You failed at concealing the fact that it was a pressure waggon. I'll have to look back and see.
----

@Mala

As not being a fan of it when it's placed on myself

Then I hope you can empathize with how I feel.

As of everyone else I'm still undecided on. This goes for you Absta, I'm unable to make a solid connection of whether or not I think you are town or scum. I was hoping that this wagon would connect it, but I still can't determine.

What indicates i'm town/scum? I get the feeling you've found equal amounts of each.
----

@Malee & Morton

Need more posts from you two.

[absta101]

@Shotgun

You never act like this as town. My gut is screaming scum.
--

I admit not actually checking the Wiki when I said this was Lylo from the start.

So you lied then? You said "Huh? The wiki says there's three scums in this game.".
I think that you're were trying to fake ignorance to make it look like you can't be scum.

By the way, why did you think there were 9 players?

Every game i've played has been >=9.

Are you employing clueless Town tactic?

You're projecting.
----

@Mala

I can't really read Absta well. Part of me is saying he's scum by his reactions to it, but part of me says he might have a town feel.

Which parts or posts give you this feeling?

The vote is staying because I'm leaning more to the scum read due to reactions on it

Why did you not mention this here?

This goes for you Absta, I'm unable to make a solid connection of whether or not I think you are town or scum. I was hoping that this wagon would connect it, but I still can't determine.

--

I don't like the tactic when it's used against me because I often tend to fail the reaction tests. I have had various games where it's been used on me when I'm town and I'm often screwed over by it because it forces to get unwanted attention on me when I have a huge PR or it forces me to claim which isn't good either.

So basically this method is very unreliable? Why are you voting me then?
----

@Nacho

The difference in majority in 9 players and majority in 7 players is one person. Why would Malee's vote be invalid in a 9 player game?

Because you would not have the majority.

It was two votes in the early stage that people really didn't seem to care about, and yet you seemed genuinely concerned that you were being misunderstood.

So being genuinely concerned = "fucking strong" reaction. Good to know.

I don't agree.

If you wanted to know the average height (town meta) of a certain species of plant (me in an early day suspicion situation) and you could only sample one area. The chances are your results won't be representitive of the species as a whole.
Hope that makes some sense.

but it doesn't make sense that I haven't been able to really get a reaction from you despite pushing this mostly RVS wagon on you.

We've been debating for a while now. That's my reaction. I'm okay with pressure waggons that happen early because they get us out of RVS stage quickly.
I learned this from an ongoing game (Open 411 page 1,2,3). I think it's fair for me to say that much.

Why haven't you been able to form a read on me?

null-leaning town. Not a strong town read though.

No questioning of the other people voting you at all?

I was okay with their votes. Eventually they would have to state why they're keeping their votes. I think i'm in the process of asking them 'why' now.
--

because he gave us as little as possible to work with in his posting, and because I have very tiny townreads on everyone save for him and Fennin.

It's RVS you can't work with anything. I don't know what to say. You picking me was okay but your continual push on me screams confirmation bias. I think i've explained myself adequately yet you won't even consider me being town. I would advise taking a step back and looking again with a clear mind

[absta101]

Page 3 hammer. That's new. Go ahead.

[absta101]

So you're against a hammer of me?

[absta101]

@Mala

I react differently to pressure votes or reactions tests depending on my role.

Why do you assume everyone is different to you in terms of how they react to pressure? Why do you assume the test is unreliable only when used against you?

The asking for clarification of a case is a town read for me

I think it would be best if you didn't use this as a tell anymore. Very easy to fake.

Claiming now, but I'm vanilla townie.

Why the early claim? Also, I think everyone is VT this game, that includes scum if you know what I mean. Claiming VT achieves nothing.

mainly due to twisting context of part of my posts to put me in a shady light.

I didn't notice. Can you show us what you mean please.

I act differently depending on my mood.

I think you mean "role". You never mentioned mood before.
----

@Shotgun

How is my play different?

I can feel a difference. Hard to explain. I'm not used to seeing big posts from you early game.
This isn't the main reason I think you're scum though.

Uh-huh. You are SO capable of hammering when someone is not even on L-1.

I'm curious, what would have been your reaction to his "intent to hammer" were I at L-1?

You didn't read the Playerlist and saw only 7 players and of course you didn't see that votecounts contain only 7 people.

1. Nope. I didn't pay attention to the player list.
2. I haven't been paying attention to the vote counts. I knew how many people were voting me and that was about it.

No, I was assuming that Wiki said that.

That's a lie. You would have said "Huh?

I assumed

the wiki says there's three scums in this game."

but I go into games assuming things

You assume there's 3 scum in a 7 player game? Not buying it.
The easiest answer is usually the correct one. In this case you faked ignorance.
VOTE: Shotgun
----

@Nacho

And yet you don't vote? Why?

Was waiting for a response first.

But why would that make Malee's vote scummy? It's still a sizeable number.

Town credit implies you're getting credit from the majority of the players. Any less and it doesn't really count. I agree that my accusation was week but it was all I had.
----

@Inte

like you know he will flip town somehow

Huuh?
What made you think this?

willing to hammer for real this time

Willing to hammer who?
--
Inte is looking scummy. He mentions he's willing to hammer before he's even given reads on anyone. I'm thinking the first time he mentioned he would hammer (as a "joke") was a test to see how we would react to it. The fact that no one except Mala got suspicious made him feel confident enough to go through it for real.

no, its just that quicklynches don't help town

page 3 lynch isn't so bad

, i've been lynched 14 posts in before

These two quotes are in conflict. Also, notice the way he tries to justify an early lynch by saying he has been lynched early on before. How does that even remotely justify a quicklynch?
----
Shotgun and Inte are the most scummy players. Shotgun deserves the lynch due to Lynch-all-liars. We are still waiting for Hiraki and a replacement for morton therefore no one will get lynched untill they start.

[absta101]

UNVOTE:
I didn't know Hiraki was there. Good point on Mala. I'll be back later.

[absta101]

@Shotgun

First of all, why are you so upset?

I lied about seeing a Wiki page. So I deserve a lynch?

Yeah that's the whole point of the procedure. If someone lies we lynch them.

I get set-ups wrong so many times I don't remember how many. Check my meta if you think I'm faking ignorance.

I don't remember any. Can you link us to some?

If I was going to lie, I would have not even mentioned that I actually didn't see Wiki-page.

The whole point of what you did was to make it look impossible for you to be scum. What scum doesn't know how many people are in the mafia right?

Even so, that doesn't make me Scum, because I DID not know the set-up.

I'll believe you when you give links that prove this is normal for you.

On the other side. Look at Malakittens. Now that is faking ignorance....Why does Mala think there's going to be sudden evaporation of votes with her VT claim,

I haven't a clue.

You can't say you don't have a clue after telling us why. You've already told us that she doesn't think that, that she's just pretending to believe it.
This shows that you don't believe you're accusation against her.

Mala's vote on me is pure OMGUS.

I don't believe OMGUS is telling of alignments. I believe having a strong negative reaction to someone who is against you (in terms of an argument) is natural.

Why don't you take a wild guess?

You're very helpful.

And why aren't you commenting anything of my case on Mala?

I agree with your initial summary of her and why she's scum. Fence sitting is a good tell for first time scum. She's at L-1 however, you won't get my vote until Hiraki and the others post more.

And why are you not commenting on: Why you thought you were at L-1 and took the tone of resignation when you were the one who should best know what was going on in your wagon?

You said it yourself. I knew I was at L-2 but Inte didn't. I wanted to see what he would do considering he thought I was at L-1.
----

@Inte

Those were actual questions. The fact that you're avoiding them all increases my confidence in thinking you're scum.
VOTE: Inte

absta and mala gotta be scum

Why?
----

@Mala

but yes there's no other roles, so claiming is basically useless.

Thank you for confirming that you were faking ignorance.
----

@nopointinactingup & Hiraki

Greetings.
Do you have any idea when you'll be finished reading these 4 pages. Need an answer.

[absta101]

@Hiraki
What do you think of Mala?
Back later.

[absta101]

@nopoint
Shotgun isn't scum for that 'lie'. He's got set ups wrong before. Your vote on him is terrible, he's L-1 now.
----
We should lynch Inte definitely. If that doesn't happen we lynch Mala not Shotgun.

[absta101]

Back.

[absta101]

No one wants to post huh. Maybe we should settle on a lynch.
VOTE: Malakittens

[absta101]

Wtf Inte. Fuck sake. YOU HAVE TO DIE!

[absta101]

VOTE: Inte
VOTE: Inte
VOTE: Inte

[absta101]

notice how he said "You have to die" rather than say what I did was actually scummy

What's note worthy about that?

A most interesting counter lynch. If Shotty is scum I'm willing to bet one or both of inte/absta is scum.

There's 2 scum max. I thought you knew...

[absta101]

VOTE: Inte

[absta101]

A most interesting counter lynch. If Shotty is scum I'm willing to bet one or both of inte/absta is scum.

I doubt nopoint would nominate us two after saying this. We either lynch Inte or no lynch.

[absta101]

Nacho wtf. I'm a strong town read to you. Your sudden 180 is scummy. Explain yourself.

[absta101]

Shotgun hasn't been nominated.
Inte and nopoint have put suspicion on me that's why i've been nominated. Inte nominated himself because he's confident that i'll get lynched over himself.
If we can't no-lynch then

Inte is the best lynch regardless if scum nominated themselves or not

. If all three of us are town, Inte is the best lynch because he's been dodging questions and not posting reads that we can work with. If one of us is scum it's out of nopoint and Inte. Inte scum being more likely.

[absta101]

I'm saying if scum nominated themselves Inte is the most likely to be scum.
You're voting me. Why am I the best lynch?

[absta101]

This is beyond stupid.

[absta101]

I'm getting a scum read on Nacho. He's acting way awkward. It seems like as soon as we said he was town he stopped being 'helpful'. I'm thinking this drastic change comes from the fact that he knows he can't be lynched.

Caught for all the wrong reasons.

I hope you realise this makes you look scummy. The fact that you know these are wrong reasons yet you still push for my lynch.
----
We need to think about reasons why people should be lynched as town and what makes them scummy. It's possible that all three of us are town. I'm starting to think all three of us are town. I've explained why I think Inte should be lynched regardless of his alignment.
----

@Inte

I'm willing to vote nopoint if you do. At this point it doesn't matter which one of us gets lynched. It would help to keep the more active and productive players, though I don't see that happening with Nacho and Hiraki.

[absta101]

What Nacho is choosing to ignore is that I know i'm town therefore naturally I don't give a shit who gets lynched out of us three. Especially when I think all three of us are town.

when he was saying you were the only option just a moment before

Wow, how pathetic.

ISO post #15

Absta is really really town,

ISO post #16

Vote: absta

Unless your "really really town" read wasn't actually strong, this is scummy. I must have done something way scummy for your 'strong' read to change as soon as you came back.
Your path is fucked up bad.

[absta101]

The scum are in Hiraki, Nacho and Shotgun.
VOTE: nopoint
nopoint isn't posting as much as me and Inte. I don't know how anyone can justify a lynch of any of us two now.

[absta101]

Warning:
I'm L-1.
----
@nopoint
Your vote is clearly OMGUS.
I said I think all three of us are town. You're the best lynch by far. Heck, you're going on fucking vacation! Just self-vote and be done with it.

[absta101]

@Inte
A second ago you seemed scummy. The fact that you didn't jump on my waggon made you look more town.
All three of us are town so we have to resort to a policy lynch. nopoint has a small amount of posts and he's going on holiday. Just to make it worse, he leaves a vote on me putting me on L-1 with a crap reason. He doesn't even mention Hiraki and Nacho. Their votes on me were terrible and you know it. You'd be voting me if you thought otherwise.
Inte I strongly suggest you vote nopoint.

[absta101]

I wanted to lynch you first because I had a scum read on you. Look back to day 1.
Inte do you really believe I would nominate myself? I cleared nopoint as scum leaving you and me. What's the scum intent in that?

[absta101]

This is pointless. If you think it would be wise in my position (as scum) to self-nominate, vote me.

[absta101]

@Hiraki
Why me out of the three?
Keeping nopoint alive is a waste. He isn't going to be here.

[absta101]

"99.999999% chance"
How precise are your chances? I'm sorry that your math teachers didn't teach you how to round off but I read that as 100%.
Here, I found you a helpful website: http://www.math.com/school/subject1/les ... 1L3GL.html

What makes you think nopoint is town?

[absta101]

Say 99.9999% is close enough to 100%. All three of us are town and i'm still the best policy lynch, why?

[absta101]

Hiraki is such an obvious scum. If you guys lynch me, lynch him next.

@Hiraki
Don't you know how to answer questions directly?
If all three of us are town (which we are), i'm the best lynch because I say all three of us are town (as a 99.9999% town)?

[absta101]

Fuck this. Can someone actually do something like vote me or nopoint.

@Mod: Can you force replace Hiraki already? I don't think he's capable of following rule no.1

[absta101]

Hiraki's slot is scum.
I was town.

[absta101]

what?

[absta101]

...bah

[absta101]

Mod I guessed right before coming here

I should've pushed Inte instead. Switching over made more enemies and I therefore got no support.