Open 432: Robo's PYP (Game Over)

[Brandi]

Hello folks.
I'm a bit rusty as I haven't played any games in years.
Hopefully this will be a fun experience!
Reading up. :>

[Brandi]

unvote

in case my slot is voting for something, for now.

[Brandi]

Time for my review! Luckily for you guys you wont have to read my reactions to Noraaa's posts, because I'm replacing her. So less of that! Hooray!
@Elmo: Hello there beach cuddle buddy! Facny meeting you here~ <3

In the off chance that you were actually being serious about being conf town because you were first. After reviewing the setup, being first would most likely suggest the opposite alignment.
I was suspicious of you because you

were

the first.

Anyway, you seem very genuine so far.

unvote

Likewise.
VOTE: Shamrock

You certainly seemed like you were trying hard to make something out of nothing, only to quickly back off it when Slandaar came at you unexpectedly hard. I initially ignored his first post because of how ridiculous and RVSish it was. Guess it's good not everyone does. His post

may

indicate something later on in retrospect, but not right now. Not at all.

Not to mention how you initially voted Slandaar because he didn't make a vote. Now you unvote him for reasons totally unrelated...

Vote: Absta

I'm inclined to agree with this post.

@ Slandaar and Absta could you two give us something about the rest of the players and stop wrestling with each other for a moment or two?

I don't like this suggestion. It's page 2. Suggesting that they "give us something other than what you're doing right now"- seems like a very... I don't know how to say it... ODD? thing to ask when clearly no one has much of anything to go on.

Noraaa, carry on with your investigation, though I'm not sure what you'll gain from it.

Literally parroting an entire sentence from the previous poster. Very weird.

No one has accused you of doing that, though they may if you continue to attempt to irrationally rationalize all the posts in this thread away. No one has accused you, no one has pointed a finger at you, and it could be that no one would have if you had not become defensive. Calm down for a second.

This is a blatant lie. In just 5 posts prior, Starbuck did indeed accuse Noraaa of being "over defensive";

Whether it's scum behaviour to draw us away from a different conflict or an over emotional town, I don't know, but for now, I will
VOTE: Noraaa

Poor reasoning and very opportunistic vote.
Also
"You might be scum, you might be town, I don't know-"
Those are some pretty shocking conclusions.

In short, shape up or get out.

That's a little harsh. But I guess she took your advice, huh?

Not explaining allows others to chirp in their views without being tainted by my explanation.

I like this guy. I sure hope he's town, because he's smart.

Well now she knows she doesn't have to worry about your vote. Saying it's a pressure vote sort of defeats the purpose, IMO.

It's like you can read my mind.

You wanted to vote Noraa even though you haven't read her posts properly. If you actually had any incentive to find scum you would have at least asked us why we think she is "town" to see if you disagree or not.

Solid reasoning. I would not have picked up on that.

While perhaps the irreverent rambling of an easily offended townie, I find her complete lack of scumhunting worthy enough for my vote.
VOTE: noraaa

...

Whether it's scum behaviour to draw us away from a different conflict or an over emotional town, [...]
VOTE: Noraaa

While perhaps the irreverent rambling of an easily offended townie

, [...]
VOTE: noraaa

...

Wow.
That's all I have to say on that.

In my eyes, big emotional appeals make you look so scummy, it's not even funny. However, time will tell.

You're doing it again.
Ending a statement like that with "time will tell" is so incredibly disingenuous. Sentences like these set yourself up to not fail.
You say you think someone is "so scummy, it's not even funny" but imply that you could be wrong as if it's important to know that you could be wrong.
Town knows that town can be wrong, they aren't trying to look good- just catch scum.
Scum want to look good.

Vote: Monty

By far the scummiest player in my eyes.

'sall for now, folks.

[Brandi]

@Brandi
Please elaborate on "…". My point with my post you quoted that while there was some chance of Noraaa being town, there was a substantial chance of her being scum, which is why I was, and still am, voting for her/whoever replaced her.

It was quite clear...
my point was that your post and Monty's post was almost exactly identical. The reasoning and the word choices/thought process.

It doesn't necessarily mean anything at this point. Obviously I find Monty scummy, but for more reasons than just that. However your reasoning being the same as his doesn't bode well for you either.

[Brandi]

Brandi*
I'm not an alchohol! :b

[Brandi]

Quick reply:

@Dark

@absta

: Is there anything about this game that you feels differs from the other games you're playing or have played, based on your perspective?

This is role fishing. Code, Elmo, Nat, you see this right?
You get to be one of my slight scum reads.

I really don't see how this is role-fishing. Though it is a poorly worded question.

[Brandi]

Trying to get other players to reveal information about their role.
Which is anti-town at best.
Scumplay at worst.

[Brandi]

I mean- in a situation OTHER than them being L-1 with someone waiting to drop the hammer.

[Brandi]

I think it's quite obvious that Noraaa would have a breakdown if you were to pressure her- that's not any kind of novel conclusion to make.

[Brandi]

A different play-style isn't necessarily indicative of scum, Dark.

So you admit that you are indeed role fishing.
Please stop it.

I don't think you're scum-
I don't think Absta is scum either.

[Brandi]

So you admit that you are indeed role fishing.

I wanted to see how absta reacted to a question to which the answer could show whether he was scum or not. I don't see why you think that's a bad thing?

Your initial question wasn't very harmful.

However, your post in #213 is.

There is a reason that rolefishing is anti-town. Stating the reasons why- would also be anti-town. Just think about it for a bit.

[Brandi]

Now, I can't find any scum games

Pours a fair bit of water on your argument. Unless your aware he plays like a SK when he's scum.

Both are anti-town roles, and either way, his playing style in this game doesn't fit his previous games at all. What do you think?

There is a massive difference between an SK and Mafia.
Sk's are still uninformed minorities.
Even more so- as they don't know who town or scum are. They have no buddies.
They have the ability to scumhunt.
It's much easier to look town as SK than mafia because as an SK you can do genuinely town things.

[Brandi]

Think for a second.

What types of roles exist

other

than Town, SK, and mafia that would cause a player to act differently?

[Brandi]

Also note the difference between "ROLES" and "ALIGNMENT";

[Brandi]

... well now I feel bad

I hope I wasn't being overly harsh in my wording. I assure you I didn't mean any of it personally.

Keep in mind this is the guy that told Noraaa to "shape up or get out"
I'm sure he's not offended.

[Brandi]

Hmm.

Forum Elmo is significantly different than F2F Elmo.

[Brandi]

Never mind, I just got home from a run with the dogs and read that too quickly. I thought you said Shamrock was the one who said that.

Retract that.

=P

Yeah I read it and was like "what..."
I had to look back because I was confused.

[Brandi]

BK is town
Monty is a good lynch
you guys are weird

[Brandi]

his posts

[Brandi]

genuine town motivation and logic; voting for scum.

[Brandi]

Scigatt's posts ring of being very confused and fumbling about. This registers as pretty null to me.

[Brandi]

Completely off-topic note;
This game has 11 pages and 4 replacements already.

[Brandi]

Wait a minute.
You're... not the Elmo I thought you were.

No wonder I was completely confused at the complete personality shift.

[Brandi]

I think it's quite obvious that Noraaa would have a breakdown if you were to pressure her- that's not any kind of novel conclusion to make.

That's my point.

BK is town
Monty is a good lynch
you guys are weird

No, you're the weird one. BK is scum.

his posts

Really?

genuine town motivation and logic; voting for scum.

We don't know if he is voting for scum yet. Only scum know that, honey.

But where is this genuine town motivation and logic you are speaking of? I don't see it.

I want everyone to read through Brandi's ISO. Much of it has nothing to do with the game, she has barely scumhunted, and her posts are generally useless.

And her townread on BK is mindboggling. Not sure if she is buddies with him or just buddying to him, but either way, Brandi is scum.

Confirm Vote: Brandi

This post is very reaching.

She's confused as to how I can have a town read on someone because she doesn't.

As if, the only way someone's reads can be legitimate is if they are in line with her own.

She has also claimed that I have "barely scumhunted" yet ignores that I replaced in very recently and the bulk of my posts have been my read through up until now.

This is a very illogical, but I'm not sure if it's necessarily scummy.

vote stays on Monty.

[Brandi]

I disagree. Scum are after the town PRs. Role fishing is a viable tactic.

I don't disagree with your assertion. But, in some cases, town can actually be dumb enough to not understand that they are rolefishing and that it is bad for the town.
Which is why I stated "anti-town at best";

Not giving the guy a free pass, simply clarifying.

[Brandi]

Now you are arguing with semantics.
Obviously no one knows for sure who the scum is.

Making "town cases" are dumb- it's more of a sense that you believe the persons motivations because of the way they word their posts. There is no way to nit pick the 7 posts he's made and show you something that would look universally town to everyone. Obviously if it was that easy to prove town reads- we wouldn't be playing this game. And this is just my assertion of what I've read of him so far. That is obviously subject to change at any given time.

But the fact that he is voting for someone who I believe to be very "scummy" and that the things he has stated don't produce any scum-tells to me, I believe he is genuine.

You replaced in on Friday. I expect some form of scumhunting in a 4-day period.

You mean like, coming in- giving my observations- and voting for someone that I think is scum? And also claiming a few others to be scummy?
I think that "finding scum" makes it pretty clear that I've scumhunted. I don't need to make 50 posts to show that.

You, however have been tunneling on my slot since before I replaced in and haven't said much else about anyone else.
Yet somehow you are free from your own criticisms?
You've made 8 posts. Your second post is just voting my slot.
Think about yourself before you try to imply someone else is scummy for doing more than you.

[Brandi]

I never said hypocrisy was scummy, and I never said you were scum.

I'll contribute as much and as little as I see neccessary- thanks.

[Brandi]

Also, please get your facts straight:

4-day period.

I replaced on the 10th at around 6 pm..

That was less than 72 hours ago.

In that time, I have the 3rd highest post count out of anyone in the game.
More than half of my posts have been more than 2 lines long. (And really- sometimes you don't need to write an entire paragraph to thoroughly explain your thoughts. When you're trying to be as clear as possible, sometimes less is more.)

If you're going to go after players for not contributing enough, there are much other options.

[Brandi]

I've already proven Natalie's attacks on me to be wrong.
If she wants to view Noraa's AtE and replace out as scum motivated, that is nothing I can rightly defend against and wont hold it against her.
My only argument there is that in my experience, AtE has almost always been used by town players. (which I myself have done many times in the past as town- I can get very over emotional depending on the time of the month;)

[Brandi]

Oh and I have a bit of insider information as well I'll reveal later about the setup.

Wat.

[Brandi]

unvote

vote: Purrfect Panda

Was looking at the front page and back here again in case I missed something.
That definitely looks like a slip to me.
Almost... intentional? :/

[Brandi]

It's funny how people react when you do something a bit crazy.

Crazy? You mean scummy.

You essentially claimed scum.

It doesn't matter whether someone "thinks you are dumb enough to slip up" or not.

Scum slip all of the time. Scum get lynched for slipping. That appeal to probability doesn't mean shit.

If you are actually town and are pulling something like that- you are -directly- hurting the town with your actions.

Of -course- town is going to vote for you if you claim that you have "insider information" because *SCUM* have insider information.

If there is a vig- a stunt like that could have caused him to out himself. Do you know how anti-town your actions are?

But no- I don't buy it.

This is just a shoddy attempt to pull suspicion off of yourself by labeling it as a gambit.

There is no way you would do something so thoughtless as town without even discussing it with your other head.

[Brandi]

Your post looks like a shoddy attempt to get on a wagon in a way that wont make you look suspicious. Even after Slandaars plan, you still want to use a lynch on Panda? I see no reason for that unless you can point out a fallacy in what Slandaar proposed.

Yeah. I don't really see it as a good plan. There is a chance that the potential vig could be NK'd.
There is also a chance of the matter that the gambit was actually a scum gambit to set himself up to not fail.
I haven't ever played with Elmo before so unless someone tells me that this is something he does, I'm not inclined to trust it.

And if he is being honest and it was a gambit- it was terrible. Because as I said- his "gambit" is extremely hurtful to the town if he's town.
I can't see something like that coming from a town slot.

[Brandi]

WHICH WAS NOT A SLIP AT ALL AND YOU ARE AN IDIOT IF YOU ACTUALLY THOUGHT IT WAS

Nice ad hominem. It really puts your posts in a more credible light.

that definitely looks like a slip, almost intentional :/

This was me thinking that he was just throwing the game for his team. I don't like when players outright give up. It ruins the spirit of the game.

[Brandi]

Mmmm...
Forgive me as being one of the only players to not instantly unvote you- unpopular as it may be-
But It's hard for me to trust anyone that does something like that and say "oh it was a gambit guys"- because scum could just as easily do the same exact thing.

Years ago when I played mafia I always ended up being too gullible and lost for the town by letting scum direct my thoughts and actions.
And seeing this- there is no way in my mind something like that can come from town and every part of my gut tells me not to trust it.

But if meta dictates this is a normality for Elmo as you say, then I'm more inclined to believe it... for now.

unvote

vote: Monty

Back to my original scum read.

[Brandi]

^That was in response to Purrfect Panda in #346.

[Brandi]

I apologize in advance to everyone for the obnoxious quote stripes. But I feel that I might as well respond to some of these questions;

I disagree. I'd say he actually helped town given the reactions he got (I agree with all of his reads on those posts BTW). It could've easily have gotten him lynched but responsible town wouldn't have lynched without an explanation and Slandaar was able to come up with a seemingly foolproof method of determining his alignment without using a lynch on him.

Why would the vig out himself? And since he didn't and Elmo got reads from what he did, please explain how his actions were anti-town.

If someone essentially claims scum.
You -honestly- think that town is going to ignore it and scum are the only ones going to hop on?
In my experience, someone claiming scum causes scum too be confused/not vote. They are too paranoid about a townie claiming scum and don't want to take "easy" bait; etc.
And town is actually very likely to quicklynch someone who claims scum. Why wouldn't they? Not every townie is cautious in that manner.
Like you said "responsible town"
Not every town is responsible.
I've seen townie's claiming scum ruin entire games.
Also I disagree with Slandaar's idea being "fool proof"
as I outlined in an earlier post.

Now, as I said claiming scum as town *could* cause the town to quicklynch you-
Now a townie that was a lot less likely to die that day- is dead. It's a distraction away from scum.

And then there's the whole "oh let's just have the vig shoot him"
-if he's town... that's wasting a VIG shot on a townie.

All he's accomplishing is likely getting himself killed, and as town, despite that sometimes you have to die- you should never go out of your way to die on the basis of WIFOMing reactions from the town.

There's also the fact that I'm town, I know I'm town- yet somehow my reaction was seen as scummy.
He's successfully caused suspicion on a town member.
IF HE IS TOWN, and if there is a vig- and for my reaction to the "slip" you were to lynch me today- that would be
-3 townies.

1 from me being lynched,
1 from the scum kill,
1 from the "vig" kill.

That is how what he did was anti-town.
You can't rely on reactions to claimed scum. It just generates WIFOM.

Why would a Vig out himself just because Elmo says a vig is in the game? Elmo didn't claim Vig and he didn't make it sound like he was implying it either. That would make no sense whatsoever.

The potential vig could have seen PP's post and said:

"I can confirm there is a vig in this game, PP slipped, vote: PP"

This never happened- but it -could- have happened.

Do you seriously think scum would INTENTIONALLY slip? Please tell me you aren't that stupid. Oh wait, you are:

Yes. Scum would slip intentionally if they want to throw the game. Hence my ":/" face.
Keep in mind that Purrfect Panda had suspicion on him previously. That wasn't the first time that he was called out for being scummy.

Here is your terrible justification of your actions, which I will go through line by line.

Justification for my actions? voting for claimed scum is nothing I need to justify.

No he didn't. And if you thought he claimed scum, you would say more than this:

...

You should have been screaming "OMG ELMO SLIPPED, KILL HIM WITH FIRE" rather than "that definitely looks like a slip, almost intentional :/" But of course you know he didn't slip because you are scum.

...

I'm not going to repeat myself about how you would have acted if you actually thought he slipped.

"No true scotsman"
"Relativist fallacy"

Just because you don't understand my reaction doesn't mean my reaction wasn't legitimate. I already explained a couple pages back why I reacted in that manner, though.

Where did anyone say that Elmo was dumb enough to slip?

Here:

I mean seriously ffs. You think I'm that stupid to say I'm scum like that.

What would you expect him to say if it was a gambit?

Do you believe any townie who claims they are gambiting just because they say that they are?
Do you believe that all gambits are made by the town?

[Brandi]

UNVOTE: Panda

OK so heres the deal

Panda looks like he slipped, if he slipped there is a vig.

So if there is a vig, they shoot panda tonight and we lynch someone else, this completely sorts the slip out.

Woah holy shit wait a second.
There's another problem with this plan.

Slandaar is scum directing night actions.

unvote
vote: Slandaar

Cheeky fucking scum.
You weren't happy with just lynching the gambiting town day 1,
you figure we'll lynch a townie today and get rid of one of the vig shots on a townie tonight.

[Brandi]

Vig should shoot whoever he wants and we cannot be the ones to decide.
Directing night actions is BAD BAD BAD.

[Brandi]

PP what's your opinion on Slandaar trying to guide the potential vig to NK you?

[Brandi]

All of your "if"s are made up of worst case scenarios

Except you neglect the fact that these worse case scenarios EXIST. That should be enough to ignore such a "plan";
We are trying to base things purely on WIFOM and that is bad for the town.

How is it bad in this game?

How is it not bad in this game? It's bad in every game.

The fact that he's trying to guide night actions should be -ENOUGH-
I'm not going to ignore a blatantly scummy post just because I don't know whether there is a vig or not.
There's nothing town motivated about that plan.

Lynching Panda today and having the vig pick whoever he wants to kill is a much better plan than trying to set up night actions.
No one in this town knows who is town or who is scum- EXCEPT FOR SCUM.
Following any sort of plan that puts townies at risk is very sketchy and should never ever ever ever happen.

[Brandi]

Hi DV!

Brandis case is only a case if there is a vig and Panda is town hence its terrible and probably a scumcase.

VOTE: Brandi

I am pretty sure but I don't have time to fully explain 353 and my name appearing where it shouldn't indicates she was preplanning.

"OH NO I'VE BEEN CAUGHT! BETTER OMGUS!"

Nice try, scum. You almost pulled the wool over my eyes.

[Brandi]

Except you neglect the fact that these worse case scenarios EXIST. That should be enough to ignore such a "plan";
We are trying to base things purely on WIFOM and that is bad for the town.

Worst case scenarios exist simply by making a lynch. Should we not lynch? This game is full of worst case scenarios. If we ignored everything that didn't have a worst case scenario counter to it, then we wouldn't have much of a game to play.

How is it not bad in this game? It's bad in every game.

The fact that he's trying to guide night actions should be -ENOUGH-
I'm not going to ignore a blatantly scummy post just because I don't know whether there is a vig or not.
There's nothing town motivated about that plan.

Lynching Panda today and having the vig pick whoever he wants to kill is a much better plan than trying to set up night actions.
No one in this town knows who is town or who is scum- EXCEPT FOR SCUM.
Following any sort of plan that puts townies at risk is very sketchy and should never ever ever ever happen.

So you have no reason why it's bad specifically for this game? Just the general statement that he could be scum.. just like everyone else.

Great point though. Only scum know who's town and who's scum. I can't listen to Slandaars plan because he could be scum. Or... maybe you're scum trying to tell us what not to do. Wait... so I can't trust anyone? Then how do I decide who to listen to? The person who came up with a theoretically good plan or the person who says the theoretical plan is purely theoretical?

Did you not read my previous posts? I detailed why it is bad in this game.
It's bad because if Slandaar is scum, which he likely is- scum get 3 free dead townies just because we decided to follow him.

When deciding what to do- you do what is -best- for the town.
Slandaar's plan is clearly not *best* for the town.
Its pretty much the most atrocious thing I've ever seen.

Use your brain for a second.
Directing. Night. Actions. Is. Bad.
These type of plans are too helpful for scum.

And no- you should -never- trust anyone trying to decide what the night actions are.

What scum motivation would I have trying to prevent the scum from knowing what the night actions could be/are?
It does -not- matter whether we know if there is a vig or not- that is completely irrelevant.

If Slandaar is scum he knows if there is a vig. This would be the PERFECT opportunity for scum to take advantage of.
If Purrfect Panda is his scumbuddy- his plan works even better because he gives his scum partner another day to live- while they potentially try to take a power role at night.

This entire plan is far more scum sided than town sided.
It's pretty plain and simple.

[Brandi]

So why aren't you jumping on Sawyer/Starbuck?

I said in my experience, that has been the case.
But I don't really want to base decisions on reactions to a scum claim.
It's just too much WIFOM.

But he didn't claim scum and he wasn't quicklynched...so what's your point?

He did claim scum. Not blatantly, but that was his intention. His intention was to "fake a scumclaim" by "faking a slip"
It's essentially the same thing.
Semantics, my darling.

My point is that these things -could- have happened.
Just because they *didn't* doesn't make it any less anti-town.

I could fakeclaim scum right now and call you my buddy.
If you get lynched and are scum- hey- it worked! Doesn't mean it's not a stupid and anti-town thing to do.

But you don't understand the plan. The only way for Panda to know if there is a vig in this setup is if he is scum or the vig. (And it's highly unlikely he's the vig) So if he doesn't get shot tonight, that means there is no vig and he isn't scum.

Not necessarily. If there is a vig- him "knowing" there is one doesn't instantly make him scum.
He could get vigged tonight and pop up town. It's an incredibly good guess.

There being a vig in this game is incredibly likely- as it's one of the best choices for scum to pick out of the three.
I honestly can't see scum -not- picking vig in this set up. It is the one that scum can manipulate the easiest to kill more townies.
Scum not picking a vig would be retarded on their part- as anything they could replace it with would only hurt them more.

If there is a vig, he might not shoot panda- or he might get shot by scum.
Who knows.

First off, if he gets shot by the vig, he's scum.

As I said above. If he does get shot- that might not necessarily mean that he is scum. He could pop up as town.

No one comes to that conclusion when analyzing a "slip".

Sure they do. I certainly did. I thought "Well, that was an easy game. GG town"

So you think he would risk getting banned, risk getting Rach banned (playing against your wincon) and lose the game for his team all because he has suspicion on him?

What? NO one gets banned for claiming scum. I've never seen that happen. You can get temp banned for outing your TEAM. But claiming scum as scum? Not ban worthy.
I've played plenty of games where scum claimed scum- and it pissed me off because they didn't try.

Well you thought you had to justify it.

...

So you DID justify your actions, by explaining how you reacted.

I'm simply answering your quote stripes, as you seem to have a hard time comprehending my thought process.

No, that isn't saying he is dumb enough to slip.

...
Yes it is.
Are you seriously trying to argue with something just because it's worded slightly different but means the -exact- same thing?
Holy shit.

Person A: "Gee I sure am in a good mood"
Person B: "Person A said they were happy"
Person C: "NO THEY DIDNT THEY SAID THEY WERE IN A GOOD MOOD!!!1111"

No, but you are saying that only scum when do what Elmo did, when if you think about it, town would act the same way around a gambit.

No I didn't. I didn't say he was guaranteed scum because of it. I said it's INCREDIBLY anti-town and that I didn't really believe him.
But apparently Elmo's meta is doing crazy things. And I generally trust meta.

[Brandi]

Brandi, half the stuff you just said I've already addressed. And everything you're saying is all circumstantial and goes both ways. I'm done responding to it. My point has been made.

So the other half you are choosing to blatantly ignore?

I am not going to let Slandaar get away with obvious scum play.

I have a better plan.
How about we lynch me, and if I'm town- we lynch Slandaar because he's obvscum trying to OMGUS me because I pointed out his plan?

I'm just a vanilla so I'm not that important;
Then Natalie can use her brain because she wont have me to tunnel on anymore- and town can actually focus on catching scum.

[Brandi]

A vanilla claim doesn't really matter at all.
No reason to freak out.

[Brandi]

This set up is massively town-sided.
I'm pretty confident that if town stops being distracted by scum ploys and WIFOM- we can easily win this game.

[Brandi]

LMFAO.
Those two posts have nothing to do with my reasoning for voting you, and you are know it. They were things I merely was responding to/clarifying.

It's obvious that I mistyped Slandaar instead of Sawyer (both S names), Sawyer even is talking about you IN THE POST THAT I QUOTED.
When I quote everything and respond to stuff, I open up a new tab and wrap quote tabs around things and then fill in the names last.

Nice misrep attempt, though.

[Brandi]

"OH NO I'VE BEEN CAUGHT! BETTER OMGUS!"

"OH NO I'VE BEEN CAUGHT! BETTER ACCUSE OF OMGUS TO MAKE ARGUMENTS LOOK BAD!"

OMGUS is one of my stronger towntells, you can call it null because I know that, but nice argument.

Doesn't work both ways, sorry hon.
You're caught scum.

Go ahead and lynch me.
When I flip town- you can die tomorrow- and then town can finally be on the right track.

[Brandi]

See, I know you are scum because if you were town, you would understand my logic and wouldn't be scared and instantly try to paint me as scum for my reasoning.
There's no logical reason to think I'm scum for my clearly town motivated vote on you.
Directing night actions is a scum tactic. You appear to be a good enough player to realize that.

[Brandi]

Those two posts have nothing to do with my reasoning for voting you, and you are know it. They were things I merely was responding to/clarifying.

I didn't say they were.

It's obvious that I mistyped Slandaar instead of Sawyer (both S names), Sawyer even is talking about you IN THE POST THAT I QUOTED.

You don't mistype someones name for no reason Misspell yes but this is not spelling, you put my name there twice, not once, twice, because you had me in your mind.

Because you wanted to vote me.

The rest of what you just said is just drivel to try and sound town. Town motivation for assuming Panda is town and there is a vig? none. Why would I see a vote to try and lynch me as town motivated? Ridiculous scumlogic.

Lol. That's the best you can come up with?. Come on- there's no way you believe your own BS here.

It's simply I saw the name "slandaar" in the post I was quoting and accidentally typed that instead of the person I was responding to.

I didn't have you on my mind at all at that point, because when I made that post I didn't even realize your scum ploy.
Which is indicated by me making the post voting you 11 minutes later. I was reading back and saw your post again and it hit me like a ton of bricks.
Which is why I said
"Holy shit"
because you -almost- slipped past me.

It's a simple mistake and you trying to make it out to be more than that is heavily reaching and makes you look even scummier.

[Brandi]

How does lynching you determine Slandaars alignment? And why are you, as someone who has expressed her dissatisfaction with lynching town to such an extreme degree, suggesting that we lynch you when you claim to be town? Isn't lynching town... bad for town? I think it is anyway...

It doesn't necessarily, it's just sort of - I see Slandaar is scum- no one else is noticing- this guy definitely needs to die- I don't want scum directing the town.
If lynching me would help him get lynched it would be worth it.

And I know that mislynches happen. We can't always avoid lynching town.
But lynching town by following -scum- is what I'm against.

My dissatisfaction does not lie in the extremities in -lynching- town-
it lies in directing town to kill possible town VIA NIGHT ACTIONS.
Something the town should have no say in.
Let the power roles choose what they want to do.
Scum should NEVER know what to expect at night.

[Brandi]

OK Brandi

Why is there a vig?
Why is Panda town?

Explain that without relating it to me.
Then explain why I can't be town directing.

Then explain why you didn't wait to see if both the 2 conditionals are true ie waiting for tomorrow to roll around, even if Panda doesn't flip, you can see how many nks there are.

And finally;
Brandi put my name twice in wrong places in the post straight before she voted me, she had not made this mistake once previously. It is not just a coincidence, she clearly had evil intentions in mind; it is a huge mental slip.

Vig is the best choice and the most obvious choice for scum to pick.
If scum don't pick 2-shot vig, they are literally retarded.

"explain it without relating it to me"

- false dilemma

Panda might not be town. Scumbuddies with you is a possibility. Scum need to pull crazy gambits to win with this setup.

Then explain why I can't be town directing.

Because no one knows if you are town or not.
Simply by making suggestions to what the PRs should do with their night actions, you are helping scum with their reads and you are helping scum with their NK choices.

Then explain why you didn't wait to see if both the 2 conditionals are true ie waiting for tomorrow to roll around, even if Panda doesn't flip, you can see how many nks there are.

There's no need to wait for anything when there is scum in front of my face right now. Directing. Night. Actions. Is. Scummy.

Brandi put my name twice in wrong places in the post straight before she voted me, she had not made this mistake once previously. It is not just a coincidence, she clearly had evil intentions in mind; it is a huge mental slip.

Yeah, no. I already explained why this is wrong.

And guess what?
Even if you were right- and I did have you in mind- and I -did- want to vote you?
It wouldn't be scummy.
Painting it as "evil intentions" is also another

false dilemma

.
Town can just as easily have a scum player in mind and want to vote them.

But nope, you never even crossed my mind up until after I was reading through again.

Why do you think it would be more likely for town-Elmo to consult with Rach before saying something crazy than scum-Elmo?

If you are hydraing with someone and think "Oh I want to do a crazy gambit that can get us lynched!"
If you don't explain that to your other head you are a fucking asshole and should have never hydra'd in the first place.
Scum is more likely to -fake- not explaining it to seem more town.

Brandi: What was your thought process behind changing your vote in 349?

-I'm told that Elmo does crazy stuff like this normally as town. I'm more inclined to believe it's a gambit. (Just a very bad one)
-Monty was still a scum read.

[Brandi]

unvote: vote: DeasVail

Still a scumslot.

He attacks my play multiple times in #400, He even points to and agrees with Natalies vote on me.

but doesn't vote for me.

And says that Natalie could be scum despite the fact she's voting for someone he thinks is scum.

He's throwing out fake suspicion on me so he can vote me later when the opportunity rises.

He also goes back and forth calling Natalie town but potential scum. His wording on his thoughts on her aren't very clear.

[Brandi]

well yeah, guessing there is a vig isn't too farfetch'd.
It's easy to guess what scum probably picked.

For instance, if scum picked a jailkeeper I will lol forever.

[Brandi]

I know, the team would be have to all be major newbs to pick that =P
But I think vig is the most helpful power role to scum, so easiest to assume it's there.

[Brandi]

Brandi:

Can you please give me concise thought summaries on players you think are scum or have accused of being scum? I don't even need reasoning, just basically what you think of them.

Also, why didn't you check Elmo's play out for yourself instead of just relying on what others say?

I wont do it for -you-, but I can give a read list later today when I have time.

In response to the second question: I never read up on anyone ever. Either I know how someone plays or I don't, I don't have time to read through every game someone's played just to get a read on them. Usually others that have played with them can speak up on their playstyle when asked. I'm not going to instantly assume that every scummy thing someone does is playstyle.

[Brandi]

I rarely ever ask questions.
But yes, your unvote is confusing, I guess.

[Brandi]

Current reads:

Kyle99 - Scummy; Lurky;
Starbuck - Null, leaning scum.
Shamrock -Null
DeasVail -Scum, mainly due to Monty. Nothing Deas has done has improved my read on his slot though.
absta101 - Town.
DarkLightA - Probably town.
BK201 - Townier than his predecessor. But could really use more input from this slot.
Natalie - VI, but town.
Purrfect Panda - Scummy Elmo, townish Rach; I'm not sure how to read hydra's but I would not be surprised at all if this slot was scum. Gambit could have been legit- but I still think it's dumb.
Sawyer - Null.
Code_X - Town.
Slandaar - Scummy. I really hate the motion to direct night actions. If I were a vig, I'd shoot him for that alone. He's a smart player and I don't trust him.

[Brandi]

Is the plan still to vig Panda?

I wont do it for -you-

What's the point of this?

What does everyone think of Sawyer?

What is the point of your useless questions? You sound like a 3 year old.
"mom what's this? Mom why can't I have that? mom what is the moon made out of? MOM MOM MOM"

[Brandi]

You were so convinced he was scum just a few pages back. There's nothing indicating you think he's any less scummy, but when he unvotes and votes a random person with no reason, you let it slide? Why?

Who says I 'let it slide'. I just chose not to comment on it at that time. There was nothing for me to say.

[Brandi]

Mmm, most of starbuck's questions/issues I already responded to multiple times and I'm not up for repeating myself.

I also heavily disagree with needing long ass cases to vote someone.

Big cases inherently detract from the town. If someone is going to vote for someone, they are going to do it anyway, regardless of all the little things someone can nit-pick out of their posts.

[Brandi]

Well, since you asked so nicely, and yeah that's understandable.
I'll go through it in a bit. ~<3

[Brandi]

How about, "Why did you randomly change your vote?" You even said yourself that it was confusing, yet you don't care to question it. That's letting it slide.

Wrong. There's no need to instantly respond instantly. Sometimes there is "waiting to see what happens"; I mean, there's nothing I could say or do at that point. There's no reason to question every vote, that's just dumb.

She is also starting to become inconsistent.

Only scum care about being consistent. More often than not, town are the most inconsistent ones of all. This is a well known fact. Because town doesn't know who the scum is, they kick trees until something falls off. Even if they have to kick EVERY SINGLE TREE. And maybe, just maybe, they'll go back to a tree they previously kicked because they thought they didn't kick hard enough.

Accusation or no, I was just pointing out the obvious.

I do approve of the case on Monty, but in order to further it, he needs to be here for rebuttal.

Well he's gone now. :/ As is half of the starting playerlist.

No one knows if you are town or not, and you are sitting over there directing lynches.

Directing lynches? Where do you see anyone following me? I'm suggesting things that are less stupid.

Your reaction to Panda in Post 334 is just all over the place. Sawyer and Natalie cover this perfectly.

Yes, my reaction is anger at someone claiming to be "gambiting" for the town- when I feel that it is literally the worst thing anyone could do in support of the town.
I'm not just going to sit there idly and not explain why it's bad when no one else is.

Your hop onto the Monty wagon after the mod specifically says that he is looking for a replacement is suspect.

There is no "hopping on"- I started the Monty wagon, because Monty was scummy. There's nothing wrong with voting for someone who is being replaced. Them getting a replacement doesn't instantly change my read on that slot.
It's worse to unvote and then have nothing useful at all to do with said vote.

The vig still wouldn't have to out themselves if they are, in fact, out there.

Wouldn't have to != wouldn't.
Just because they don't have to doesn't mean they might not do something stupid and claim.
There are plenty of players who dumb things in this game. It's not unlikely to happen.

This borders on game integrity. I know Elmo can be a bit over the top at times, but he wouldn't purposely throw a game (to my knowledge).

With your vote now on Slandaar, does that make you suspect Monty/DeasVail less than before?

Do I think there is only 1 scum in this game?
No.
I suspect Deas just as much. Slandaar/DeasVail are very likely scum together.

Are we reading the same game?

Yes.

For someone who's main point in her case on Slandaar is him trying to set up night actions, it's quite hypocritical to try and set up lynches.

Also, you've been harping on this whole "not lynching town" thing. Why would you even suggest to be the lynch?

And claiming already? WTF.

Answered here->

It doesn't necessarily, it's just sort of - I see Slandaar is scum- no one else is noticing- this guy definitely needs to die- I don't want scum directing the town.
If lynching me would help him get lynched it would be worth it.

And I know that mislynches happen. We can't always avoid lynching town.
But lynching town by following -scum- is what I'm against.

My dissatisfaction does not lie in the extremities in -lynching- town-
it lies in directing town to kill possible town VIA NIGHT ACTIONS.
Something the town should have no say in.
Let the power roles choose what they want to do.
Scum should NEVER know what to expect at night.

And no, it's NOT hypocritical.
How could you even equate a LYNCH to a NIGHT ACTION?
Those are literally two completely different things.
If I was calling for a night action- then you could call me hypocritical.
But I'm not.

Also- there is nothing wrong with claiming if you are vanilla.
The only bad thing I could see is not getting night killed. And scum would never target someone at night who had suspicion on them during the day.
Now if everyone thought I was OBV-TOWN, claiming would be bad, yes.

You do realize that DeasVail did say the following:

Next time I post will be me sorting out my reads and deciding on them.

Yes, so? That means absolutely nothing. He posted his reads. He thinks I'm scum. He didn't vote. That's scummy.

[Brandi]

Brandi, I never said some of the things you quoted in your post.

It seems Brandi's lynch isn't happening today, so I'll settle for BK.

VOTE: BK201

L-1

...I was meaning to type "starbuck"

-_-
both females.
Sorry :/

[Brandi]

I'm the Jailkeeper.

nat is bullshit.

Jesus Christ.
-_-

[Brandi]

unvote

vote: Natalie

[Brandi]

still wrong;
The fact that you'd even question BK's claim at this point is highly suspicious.

[Brandi]

@absta: My reads can change. Natalie made a horrible post that completely changed my views on her. I'm not set in my beliefs.
And yes it's dumb but sometimes I can read posts out of order. You can tell this because of all my posts responding to multiple things at a time. I understand your reasoning and there is logic behind it but you're wrong here. Just look at how I post in general- a lot of my responses may seem out of order.

@Sawyer: That's exactly what scum would say.
Of course you'd take your vote off of a claimed power role. If you didn't that'd be retarded as scum or town.


Also due to recent events I no longer believe Slandaar is scum.

[Brandi]

What retarded scum would ever put a JK in this setup. Seriously.

VOTE: Bk201

BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD!!!

This vote is so scummy.
You never lynch a claimed power role, unless there is a CC. Then you rationalize it with the town.
Given the players in this set up, I wouldn't put it past scum to make a dumb pick and not think about it.
Yes it's highly unlikely but uh... there's still a chance he's telling the truth. If he's alive tomorrow we can lynch him.
But today? No.

[Brandi]

IMO
if BK is legit
narrow down the playerlist
(BEFORE REPLACEMENTS- OBV)
and pick out the players that are noob/dumb enough to accept a jailkeeper


and I hate to admit it, but...
The whole me saying
"Scum would have to literally be retarded to pick jailkeeper"
doesn't clear me in any way
because I replaced in


There's been like 6 replacements to keep in mind.

[Brandi]

NO.
IF ITS ALIVE TOMORROW YOU KILL IT WITH FIRE.
THERE'S STILL A CHANCE TONIGHT THAT HE COULD JAILKEEP A MAFIA MEMBER THAT SENDS IN THE KILL
STOP BEING STUPID AND BLATANTLY SCUMMY

[Brandi]

^AND IF THAT HAPPENED THERE WOULD BE A NO KILL AND HE WOULD BE CONFIRMED AND THEN NO TOWNIES WOULD HAVE TO DIE AT NIGHT

[Brandi]

IMO
if BK is legit
narrow down the playerlist
(BEFORE REPLACEMENTS- OBV)
and pick out the players that are noob/dumb enough to accept a jailkeeper

This is why I wanted to narrow it down. Your way doesn't work and it's scummy.
- How the fuck can you clear everyone that replaced in, their slot could still have been the one to choose JK.
----

@BK

How confident are you of your tell?

...that's not what I'm saying.
I never said "clear the replacements"
I'm saying, don't base your reads on the replacements, base it on the original players.

For example...
I don't think that Deas is dumb enough to pick Jailkeeper.
But Monty?
Probably.

You understand what I'm saying now?

[Brandi]

Can someone tell me what Natalie thinks about the Panda slip fiasco?

Her 12th post in her ISO:

But Elmo's "slip", WHICH WAS NOT A SLIP AT ALL AND YOU ARE AN IDIOT IF YOU ACTUALLY THOUGHT IT WAS, is the most illuminating piece of information in this game. Post 330 is the truth except for obvtown on BK. When I went V/LA, I just copied and pasted a message into the thread without reading it. I doubt BK read that and didn't say anything about it. And if he did, that's more likely to come from scum who doesn't want to react the wrong way.

I'd really like to hear what Natalie thinks of her wagon.

[Brandi]

unvote

for now, don't want anyone to get trigger happy before we even get any words from Nat.

[Brandi]

I would support a Panda lynch. His play has been anti-town at best, scummy at worst.
We don't hear much from Rach in comparison to Elmo either.

[Brandi]

In fact,

vote: purrfect panda

This guy is too scummy to live.

[Brandi]

Fine

unvote

vote: Natalie

There's been so many replacements I feel that we really need the extension. But I wont question the mod's decision.

[Brandi]

Note: I'm going to be very busy after 9 pm and might not be able to check the site at all.

[Brandi]

I support the above.

vote: sawyer

[Brandi]

Oh forgot to say, Hi Reck.
Good to have you here.
This game was literally falling apart and it's nice to see another familiar face since I replaced in. (I mean 8 replacements holy crap :/)

[Brandi]

Who is to say who the vig killed and who scum killed?
IMO the Vig could have just as easily killed Slandaar.

[Brandi]

I'm baffled as to how her wagon took off as fast as it did

Because she was obviously scum by that point, and any player with an iota of town in them knew it.

Scum can just as easily be quick wagoned when they make mistakes as fatal as Nat made.
The fact that she shut up and disappeared proved even more that we were on the right trail.

[Brandi]

There's more than one scum to lynch in a game.
And of course I would have. Vi/Town can tunnel on someone very hard like they did on me- but that's not why I thought she was scum.

You have zero sense of time flow.

[Brandi]

Guess what? A single post can change an entire read on someone. Don't like it? Deal with it.
I shouldn't have to explain everything. It should have been obvious what post I was talking about. If you follow the game- you can see quite clearly.
She was scum, she died. I made the right decision in voting her. You can cry about lack of explanation all you want, but your point is moot.

[Brandi]

But I mean- I understand that you're upset about your scumbuddy dying like that. You were pretty happy with my thinking she was town despite her hard-tunneling on me, weren't you?
That's too bad I guess.

[Brandi]

IMO everyone that was on the Nat wagon -was- town. Not confirmed, no, but certainly town-ish.
Are you saying that you know otherwise?

[Brandi]

Also your attempts to try and paint suspicion on me for voting scum that got lynched is pretty lulzy
Maybe if I never point out the post she made to change my mind you'll flail more

[Brandi]

lolololol
ok scum
you're adorable

[Brandi]

you don't even think I'm scum
but you're waiting for someone else to come in
hoping that they might take initiative and find me scummy
so that you can vote me and feel safe about it

you're too obvious man

[Brandi]

I honestly don't care what scum considers to be an "offense" or not

[Brandi]

was that even english

[Brandi]

EBWOP
^ was @sawyer

[Brandi]

Oh I understand what he was trying to say now.

Sawyer, I care enough for the basis of scum-hunting, but I don't care to convince you of anything- because I don't think you are town and I don't think you are worth the effort.
If someone I think is town asks me reasonable questions or poses such concerns I shall respond to them in kind.

My back in forth with you serves the purpose to further confirm or deny my suspicions of you. I have no issue with explaining my thought process at this point because I've already gotten the answers I need and am happy with my vote.

[Brandi]

Absta you have a very weird view as to what constitutes looking "bad" or "good";

[Brandi]

Absta you literally are bringing up something I already responded to.
Like literally every issue you've had with me I've explained and you just blatantly ignored it.

[Brandi]

I will admit that I have not played enough mafia to know for sure what is VI or what is scum.
I had never had an instance of scum tunneling hard on me before this one because I never play this game. I didn't think scum would be that dumb/bad to just sit on my slot the whole game.
Turns out I was wrong. So yes I had a VI read on her.

No- I didn't lynch Nat for tunneling.
Her posts during the time of BK's claim are what made me suspect her.


And yes a JK is unbelievable- because scum wouldn't pick that unless scum is stupid- which apparently- they are.


But I'm sure that you are going to ignore this post and bring up your same "issues" again later despite me explaining it several times.
Stop making me question my town read on you absta- there are too many scummy people in this game as it is.

and FTR I have not had a town read on Panda all game.

But if you are scum then my read on Panda would change.

[Brandi]

EBWOP: Ninja'd by Deas


@Deas: What is wrong with your faaaaaaaaaaaaaaaace?

[Brandi]

I meant the smiley, I don't understand the point of your post. I might just be dumb in not understanding it because of lack of sleep though

[Brandi]

I'm in way too many goddamned games right now, seriously. I made a slight error in judgment when I signed up for so many at once.

I guess I don't really have any strong opinions one way or another, so I can just

vote: Sawyer

.

Both you and Shamrock are looking great. /sarcasm
----

@Brandi

- Your explanation is backed up with a pathetic excuse.
- You threaten to change your town read on me.
Keep going. You're doing great at convincing me you're town.

Please point me to where you explained yourself.

lol if you think I care to convince you of anything you are sorely mistaken.
I wasn't threatening anything- I was merely stating a fact.
That your posts are starting to get very reachy like you are trying to find any possible excuse to try to make me look scummy when I'm pretty obv town makes you look very bad lmao

But since you asked, once again- things I addressed that you ignored:

@absta: My reads can change. Natalie made a horrible post that completely changed my views on her. I'm not set in my beliefs.

And yes it's dumb but sometimes I can read posts out of order. You can tell this because of all my posts responding to multiple things at a time. I understand your reasoning and there is logic behind it but you're wrong here. Just look at how I post in general- a lot of my responses may seem out of order.

and another time you tried to blatantly misrepresent me and I corrected, but you ignored:

IMO
if BK is legit
narrow down the playerlist
(BEFORE REPLACEMENTS- OBV)
and pick out the players that are noob/dumb enough to accept a jailkeeper

This is why I wanted to narrow it down. Your way doesn't work and it's scummy.
- How the fuck can you clear everyone that replaced in, their slot could still have been the one to choose JK.
----

@BK

How confident are you of your tell?

...that's not what I'm saying.
I never said "clear the replacements"
I'm saying, don't base your reads on the replacements, base it on the original players.

For example...
I don't think that Deas is dumb enough to pick Jailkeeper.
But Monty?
Probably.

You understand what I'm saying now?

[Brandi]

He has this weird fetish with himself where he thinks that the way something looks to him obviously looks the same to everyone else
there's also the fact that he's wrong about everything

[Brandi]

First off: You originally said Nat had made "a horrible post" that completely changed your views on her. One post did that. Now you're saying her posts (plural) during the time of his claim are what did it. At first it was one "horrible post", now it's all of them (despite the fact that she had made one post between BK claiming and you voting her; a post that doesn't seem particularly damning at all).

so much reaching
semantics
lmao

So why are you singling me out

These right here are scum words.


Potential scum other than sawyer:
Absta/PP/DV/Reck depending on ~things~

As for a number #2?
If Sawyer is scum that increases the likliness of asbsta scum IMO
DV/Sawyer are not scum together
Reck/Sawyer are a slight maybe
Panda/Sawyer unlikely

[Brandi]

lol I love how much this guy tries to defend nat

hey sawyer
you realize your scumbuddy is dead right
you can quit acting like shes town and that votes for her were bad

Sawyer for #1 most obv scum lets lynch lynch lynch it

[Brandi]

@Brandi: Stop your whining. That's all you do. I get it, you're mad someone suspects you. Get over it.

Holy projection batman!

[Brandi]

I didn't answer your question about 728 because I have no clue what you're talking about.

2. Please restate your case and reasons for voting me.

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... er_sort=Go

[Brandi]

Sawyer was probably expecting people to want to lynch BK for still being alive
then he realized it wasn't happening
silly scum

[Brandi]

Also
notice how there's multiple players that "suspect" me
but no one
literally no one
is voting me
scum is too scared to start my wagon
because if I did get mislynched they'd be fucked
looooooool

[Brandi]

Allow me to be more specific then. Do you think there's nothing wrong with Reckoner hopping on the biggest wagon with no reason?

From what I've seen of his play- that's pretty standard.
Unless there's someone else here who's played with him enough to see this as scummy I don't have a problem with it considering a vote for you is a vote for scum!

So you don't have a case or reason.

I never made a case.
I have reasons though.
See: Your posts

*Supposed town gets mislynched*

*Scum get fucked*

Not seeing the logic there.

You're either playing dumb or very shortsighted. Maybe both.

[Brandi]

I just skimmed all of the above and am anxiously awaiting Starbuck's return.

you can give your own opinions on things without waiting for others, you know.

[Brandi]

Well I think it's important to read at least some of where Nat's lynch started:
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 1#p4277711

BK and Slandaar were pretty vocal.
And Slandaar is dead now.

BK is a claimed Jailkeeper who is still alive.
Which normally would send off radars but the way he started the Natalie wagon just makes it seem impossible to me that he is actually scum.
I think it's more likely for him to be town fakeclaiming JailKeeper than scum.

[Brandi]

^And the reason for me suggesting a townie fakeclaiming jailkeeper- is that scum would know it's a fakeclaim and therefore would be a potential reason as to why they didn't kill him;

[Brandi]

Unlike Brandi, I don't base my votes off someone just because they suspect me.

"OMG U GUYS LOOK AT THIS -OTHER- PERSON WHO IS DOING SCUMMY THINGS WHY R U ALL FOCUSING ON ME IM DOING A GOOD JOB OF NOT BEING SCUMMY HOW CAN YOU KNOW IM SCUM GUISE SRLSY...GUISE!"

[Brandi]

No you wasn't, you indirectly threatened to change your town read on me. That doesn't come from a town position.

Nope, sorry, try again.

How is that an explanation?
Wow... I think that's probably the worst "explanation" i've seen ever. I didn't ignore it, I just didn't know you considered that to be an explanation worth sharing.

How is it not?
I guess you just don't like the answers you are given? Too simple for you? See: Occam's Razor.
If you would have preferred an in depth explanation of me trying "clear" myself because you don't like the order I respond to things in, well, that's just too bad sweetheart, guess you'll just have to deal with it.
Because I honestly don't give a single fuck if you have issues with my playstyle or not.
While you're busy with your thumb up your ass trying to put together how the person you are

not voting

for is not scummy to everyone else- I am doing useful things like poking this other scum with a stick until it cries. <3


also lolololol
a shamrock vote
AHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHA

[Brandi]

^And the reason for me suggesting a townie fakeclaiming jailkeeper- is that scum would know it's a fakeclaim and therefore would be a potential reason as to why they didn't kill him;

I

am

the JK. The reason I was kept alive was for WIFOM.

yeah- I believe you.
I was throwing a hypothetical out there because I've seen vanilla's fakeclaim PR's before to try and draw out scum.

[Brandi]

Glad to see your posting Starbuck. I don't really have any qualms with your posts so unfortunately I have nothing much to add on, other than I agree with your views on Absta. You sparked me to go back and re-read some of his posts and I'm finding you have some strong and valid points there.

[Brandi]

I would really prefer Sawyer over absta today, but I'm not against an Absta lynch by any means.

unvote:

vote: absta

[Brandi]

oops forgot the vote

vote absta

L-1.

[Brandi]

That wagon is way quick, especially with the switches from Sawyer. The day doesn't end until the 19th. Why is there such a rush?

If you're that bothered by it then unvote.

In fact, I don't want a quick lynch to happen.
I want absta to have a chance to say something.

unvote

[Brandi]

Your whole suspicion on me is based on something Brandi has also just recently done, yet you don't find her scummy for it like you did me.

Posts like this are why I think absta is scum.
Saying "stop paying attention to me- pay attention to this other guy!" is classic scum deflection.

[Brandi]

or girl* in which case that would be me lmao

[Brandi]

...actually...
ugh

I don't have time right now to make a big post right now but...
..I re-read through starbucks wallpost
and there are a few contradictions there that don't sit right with me.

Nat has way more experience as scum than me (i've yet to play mafia),

Something like this I'm inclined to believe.

Perhaps I cling to certain "tells" too strongly and forget individual player.

I'm sorry absta, I was wrong about you

vote: starbuck

I'll explain later when I have time.

[Brandi]

Code_X

Although obviously the fact BK as claimed PR is alive is somewhat concerning...........

Very.

I completely agree. BK trying to steer opinion as to who killed who gave me a super bad feeling.

Throws suspicion onto BK.

Otherwise if you're just waiting until she "posts more" makes it seem like you're hoping she ends up doing something scummy.

Winner, Winner, Chicken Dinner.

slight buddying.

I think if we have a cop out there that you should hold onto your innocent unless that person is in danger of being lynched. Although, if you did investigate BK, I think confirming his claim would be a good idea.

There is no town reasoning for such a direction.
The cop is 1-shot.
If the cop investigated someone, that cop would be another confirmed innocent on top of whoever he investigated.
Yes it would give a pool of two confirmed town for scum to choose from, but that is INCREDIBLY useful during the day phase for scum hunting purposes. That completely rules out 2 players on the list of potential scum for everyone.
A cop -not- claiming their result risks the player they investigated OR THEMSELVES dying during the night phase with no information being shared, and their role would have been essentially wasted.

If a 1-shot cop has a result, they better share it.

Instead of "waiting until someone is almost lynched"
You know what's that doing?
Wasting a greater part of the day that could have been spent actually scum hunting rather than running a wild goose chase.

It's more useful to the town to share a result and get killed than to not share that result at all on the off chance you or your target does not get killed during the night.
And if your target does get killed during the night and you later claim cop and say "oh yes I investigated this dead guy"
then no one would believe you. And if you -are- town you're getting yourself lynched purposefully.

IMO this sounds like a set up to her claiming cop later if she has to, so that she can say she investigated a dead guy.
Which if Starbuck is scum, then that would mean 1-shot cop is not in this game.

Starbuck goes on to infer that I'm town with a lot of per posts but does cast suspicion onto me with this:

ow, Brandi's whole thing about everyone on that lynch being town-ish is a bit over the top. We all know there is scum mixed in on Nat's lynch and that's what we are here to figure out. That blanket statement definitely has stuck in my craw.

We all know there is scum mixed in on Nat's lynch

:|VOTE COUNT|:

xRECKONERx [0]
Starbuck [0]
Shamrock [0]
DeasVail [0]
absta101 [1] Purrfect Panda
DarkLightA [0]
Brandi [3] xRECKONERx,

Natalie

, Sawyer
BK201 [0]

Natalie

[7] BK201,

Slandaar

, Code_X, DeasVail, Brandi, absta101,

Starbuck

Purrfect Panda [1] Shamrock
Code_X [0]

Slandaar

[0]
Sawyer [0]

NOT VOTING:|

DarkLightA

We all know

So she "knows" scum was on Nat's lynch.

A few things:

BK is 99% certainly town.
Scum definitely left him alive for the WIFOM
The only two people to throw suspicion onto/express uneasiness towards BK being alive are starbuck and sawyer.

Starbuck came in and made a post in the middle of sawyer having a wagon on him.
The wagon derailed and went onto Absta instead.

A lot of players were posting potential suspicion of absta- it was a safe bet to try and be suspicious of him.
Starbuck and Sawyer do a good bit of buddying.
The whole directing of the potential cop to keep their investigation secret until later sounds like a scum ploy/safe-claim set up for later.
When the votes start pouring in fast all the way to L-1 - Starbuck points this out- but doesn't unvote.

And I just know that Starbuck is going to quote stripe all of this, and try to debate why a cop should be keeping their investigation hidden, and try to paint it as me trying to "out the 1-shot cop" or some shit like that and completely ignore the fact that I don't even believe there is a cop, distracting everyone with a pointless long debate on the merits vs flaws of a 1-shot cop claiming their results.
But who knows- maybe she wont now that I preemptively pointed it out.

That wagon is way quick, especially with the switches from Sawyer. The day doesn't end until the 19th. Why is there such a rush?

If you're that bothered by it then unvote.

In fact, I don't want a quick lynch to happen.
I want absta to have a chance to say something.

unvote

I think she was hoping someone would hammer here while also trying to save face by mentioning the wagon was going too quickly.
Remember people, actions speak louder than words, or rather- lack of actions.

Therefore Brandi is a scum read to you. Thank you.

She's moving that direction. Her recent play definitely has me leaning that way, yes.

Look- guys- my only "recent play" was me posting that

I was going to make a post about how she's scummy

- and the fact that

I voted her

.
Here she is, agreeing with her scum read- the guy she's voting.
Because I voted her.
How OMGUS can you get?

Some elaboration on this would be awesome.

She's so antsy about being suspected without reasons given to defend yet- that even though I say that I will be elaborating on it in THAT SAME POST- she feels the need to beg for an explanation.

My whole suspicion of you is not just based on what Brandi recently did. It sounds like you need to re-read this game. I never said that I didn't find Brandi scummy for it,

Trying to evade suspicion for her reads.

"Oh I only thought you were scummy because of someone else! My reads aren't my fault! I'm not accountable for them at all!"

She doesn't feel safe with absta suspecting her now his wagon isn't going to happen.

Whoa, whoa, whoa, stop putting words in my mouth and stop trying to misrepresent me. Also, I'm not a fan of you trying to get focus off yourself and onto Brandi.

Wat.

Starbuck is definitely scum, and I'm willing to bet Sawyer is her buddy.

My vote is staying.

[Brandi]

And I just know that Starbuck is going to quote stripe all of this, and try to debate why a cop should be keeping their investigation hidden, and try to paint it as me trying to "out the 1-shot cop" or some shit like that and completely ignore the fact that I don't even believe there is a cop, distracting everyone with a pointless long debate on the merits vs flaws of a 1-shot cop claiming their results.
But who knows- maybe she wont now that I preemptively pointed it out.

That was meant to be at the end of the talk about 1-shot cop;
This is part of why I dislike making large cases/ because everything gets so jumbled up easily :I

[Brandi]

STILL WAITING ON THOSE RESPONSES ABSTA

Reck read my case on starbuck
I know shes your friend for lyf but this is important.
I seriously think she is scum and your input is valuable.

[Brandi]

oh god I dont know how
uhhh

She came in and posted a lot of suspicion towards absta but didn't vote for him, which derailed the sawyer wagon, was mostly defensive of me but still made sure to leave an inkling of suspicion there,absta gets all the way to L-1 and asks why it's happening so fast but doesn't unvote leaving him at L-1
then I make a post saying that Im going to make a post on how starbuck is scum
and in the next post she says that she thinks Im scummy now and agrees with absta who she is voting for

concise enough?

[Brandi]

I also find her talk of the 1-shot cop suspicious
but thinking it over
town might disagree with my viewpoints as well
but part of me thinks shes setting up a safeclaim

[Brandi]

I feel stupid now because despite being so adamant in feeling my opinion is the most logical, my research on the matter (reading discussions on 1-shots claiming early) shows my opinion is not exactly popular and may not even be right.
Not really the time or place to discuss it- perhaps after the game someone can more properly explain it to me.
Luckily I'm not a cop or I -would- have claimed by now. In face2face mafia whenever I got a cop result I claimed it immediately and it worked out for the town. But I guess this is different.
Though, I still don't feel like a cop is likely.
Since IMO- a cop is more dangerous to scum than an innocent child. (2 conf. innocents/1 conf. town + 1 conf. scum vs. 1 conf. town)


@Starbuck: I'll go in and individually respond to some of your points if you like but I feel you've proven me wrong on numerous points.
And a major one of my theory was me being stupid.
And...
I will admit your manner of response is not what I expected at all, and I can't say you are completely wrong about the points you are making.
I haven't played with you enough to know if I'm just being gullible here and you're really convincing scum but for the moment I believe you.

unvote

Vote: Sawyer

Regardless, this guy is still high on my scum list.

[Brandi]

sorry Ive been super busy I'll be posting before too long to respond to things and such

[Brandi]

@Brandi: Has this interlude with Starbuck changed your opinion on absta or anyone else?

My opinion on Absta changed when he claimed he's never been scum before.
Someone else confirmed this for him, I don't remember who.
But I don't see his playstyle as "first time scum";

As for anyone else?
No.
Sawyer is still scum.
Starbuck's response to me seemed pretty genuine and I feel my wrath was misguided towards her.

I really fucking wish Reck would play this game though.
I mean
out of all the fucking replacements in this game
he comes in in replaces
like a nice guy
but doesn't actually play.
:I

[Brandi]

How can anyone listen to you when you never talk?

[Brandi]

I'm not going to vote for Absta.

[Brandi]

Absta have you ever been mislynched as town?
if so could you please provide some games where this has happened?

[Brandi]

We have 4 days left, and there's a player who still hasn't been replaced yet. I'm sure we'll get an extension if the guy doesn't get replaced soon.

[Brandi]

Eughh.

[Brandi]

Absta is likely not scum.
You coming in new to the game with obvious little time to read 39+ pages and voting for the biggest wagon is bad.

[Brandi]

...and yet you want to push the largest current wagon?
We still have a decent amount of time before deadline.

[Brandi]

It's suspicious to defend a town read?
No I would not rather a NL.
If it came down to a deadline issue I would hammer simply to avoid it- but I think that we do have time to ponder other options.
Such as Sawyer.

[Brandi]

Why on earth would you quote something like that without reading everything that follows it on the same page?
Seriously.
2 posts afterwards.

[Brandi]

Like I'm pretty ADD myself but that's just pure laziness man

[Brandi]

................

[Brandi]

lmao

[Brandi]

.
[snip]

Nat has way more experience as scum than me (i've yet to play mafia),

Something like this I'm inclined to believe.

Perhaps I cling to certain "tells" too strongly and forget individual player.

I'm sorry absta, I was wrong about you
[snip]

[Brandi]

....In the first post that you originally questioned...
AV if you are sucm, fuck you. That's not even funny. =P

Your whole suspicion on me is based on something Brandi has also just recently done, yet you don't find her scummy for it like you did me.

Posts like this are why I think absta is scum.
Saying "stop paying attention to me- pay attention to this other guy!" is classic scum deflection.

[Brandi]

~There's a hole in the bucket, dear 'Liza, dear 'Liza...

[Brandi]

I don't...
I never said my tell was wrong.
I said Absta stated he's never been scum before and wouldn't be very experienced at it.
His play hasn't appeared to be newb-scum like to me.

I could be wrong- as Shamrock has implied.

And Sham that's a decent point. I didn't think about his actions on the Nat wagon as much.
I really don't like that he hasn't even tried to defend himself since being at L-1. :/
I want to give him a chance to do some explaining but he doesn't seem to be putting any effort into it.

If he doesn't say anything soon, I will hammer.

[Brandi]

As in, I've seen scums do what I said before in F2F mafia
and it seems pretty common
which is why I called him out on it
but him saying he's never scum is believable to me

[Brandi]

and I'm not going to quote THE ENTIRE game just read it AV.

[Brandi]

Oh boy two people on a wagon going V/LA at virtually the same time...until the same time...

I'd prefer to lynch starbuck over absta.
My main suspicion with her earlier was nullified but her recent postings don't leave me with any good feelings.

[Brandi]

wat lol

[Brandi]

Oh boy two people on a wagon going V/LA at virtually the same time...until the same time...

I'd prefer to lynch starbuck over absta.
My main suspicion with her earlier was nullified but her recent postings don't leave me with any good feelings.

oh wait, that was Shamrock on Absta, not sawyer,
my bad.

fucking all these players I've never heard of before.

[Brandi]

if it gets to deadline and there is no other option.
I wont let us have a No Lynch, so don't worry.
No need to end the day prematurely.

[Brandi]

yah I'm not a cop lol

[Brandi]

If I was I woulda already claimed, probably, which I realize is dumb now... so thank god I didn't get a chance to fuck that up.

[Brandi]

unvote

vote: starbuck

[Brandi]

You are a better lynch and more likely to be scum than Absta.
Don't worry, if you are town- your reads wont be forgotten. I'll sheep your dead body if that is the case.

[Brandi]

Starbuck your reaction to people voting you is very scummy.

I don't think anything about assuming I'm a cop or something like that is scummy- but your wordings of things makes me very paranoid of you.

It's not just your actions but the way you say things.

[Brandi]

Sorry Sham but no I really don't want to lynch absta today.
If starbuck flips town I will support you all the way tomorrow, though. (Though honestly I think she is very likely scum here)

[Brandi]

I read a statistic somewhere that said that most scum are caught in the early stages of the game. (RVS)

[Brandi]

But with this game particularly, keeping up with ALL the fucking replacements is a fucking headache.

I'm constantly having to check back and see who replaced who because my mind can't hold all that information at once.

[Brandi]

K page one reads (excluding flipped)
- scigaar is town
- absta is (grudgingly) town
- shamrock is scum

Unvote; Vote: shamrock

have you had much experience playing with shamrock?

Serious question, as I have not.

I have paranoia in the back of my mind about him but he hasn't done anything overtly scummy.

[Brandi]

, which is probably just my mind being crazy because whenever I start to trust someone too much they end up being scum that pulled me on a leash the whole game... and I hate that.

[Brandi]

I'll look into it.

[Brandi]

Not seeing the shamrock scum on RVS. Unless I'm missing something.

[Brandi]

Why should I trust a spy?

Wasn't you paying attention during "meet the spy"?
Trust the spy. Don't make the same mistake as the dumb soldier.

completely off topic from the game I know but I wonder how much avatars influence other's subconscious reads in the game.

[Brandi]

It's not a joke. He knows how I play and he'd be the first to call me out if I was scum.

This.

Unless you're both scum together?

I had a scum read on Kyle99, it's not unlikely.

[Brandi]

I haven't played with Reck town yet (Not counting this game because I don't know his alignment, obv) He was just like this the last game I played with him, but the "being afk all game and then sometimes saying stuff" might just be his recent meta....idk.

[Brandi]

Lol I didn't answer either.

1. Sawyer
2. Starbuck, Reck
3. BK, Absta

[Brandi]

The fact that she's so eager to get a claim out of you is one of the main reasons I think she's scum.

[Brandi]

wait
He's saying I'm going to die if BK doesn't....

[Brandi]

wait...
that's not what it meant
ok nvm I'm confused

[Brandi]

DV vote Starbuck.
----

@Starbuck

-

I know you're scum for a fact

. You keep dodging my attack, pretending you don't understand.

I'm not a fan of how Vox didn't answer the questions given.

Starbuck...are you actually scum, babe?

Because this kind of shit-slinging is bad and you know it.

IMO Reck and Starbuck could actually be scumbuddies 'cause of the timing of this post shortly after absta's.

[Brandi]

Yes obviously, just pointing it out now.

I am on everyone's "don't want to lynch" list.

So I'm a NK target -if- scum want to be psycho and try to leave you alive for more WIFOM craziness.

[Brandi]

I am voting her lol

[Brandi]

WIFOM.

[Brandi]

vote: sawyer

[Brandi]

k.

vote: absta

[Brandi]

No clue why the vig would shoot Shamrock :/ I mean I was a little unsure about him but he definitely wasn't scummy.

[Brandi]

unvote

dammit absta

[Brandi]

you honestly think the VIG would shoot the claimed jail keeper?
come on.
Absta is obviously the vig.

[Brandi]

the claimed JK who lived through N1 so some peeps were not so sure he was really a JK.

And the vig would have to be absolutely retarded to shoot him.
It's even more retarded than a JK being in this game.

If scum did not kill BK last night, I would be voting for him now.
You can let the claimed lived once due to WIFOM, but not twice.

[Brandi]

so for using the word "retarded" so much.
I just realized how harsh it sounds.

But um... those things I said would be very not-well-thought-out.
<_<

[Brandi]

sorry***

[Brandi]

Absta, what is the play for today?

[Brandi]

AV why did you shoot shamrock and darklight

[Brandi]

fuck, I was hoping you would fall for that and make it easy

now I actually have to think about which one of you is legit

[Brandi]

^EBWOP: @AV

[Brandi]

yeah but why would absta someone who's never been scum before fakeclaim vig when he knows he's gonna be CC'd?

[Brandi]

Slandaar's last post at the end of D1:

OK Absta...

This is what happens when you attempt to find the scum team instead of just one at a time. It turns into something that isn't even about looking for scum, causing you to get deep in confirmation bias. You're just trying to boost your own ego by proving to everyone that you can catch all the scum at once.

So I am town trying to boost my ego as this makes no sense from a scum perspective.

There's something that doesn't make much sense from a town perspective on your part. If you think i'm scum, considering the unlimited time we have until a replacement joins, why are you not securing my lynch? absta scum is in a way more dangerous position (to town) than scum Nat.

'Why does Sland want to lynch Natalie over Me?'

I had a look through your ISO, didn't find much on Nat other than the scum team "guesses" yet you want her lynched. I noticed you've set it up so that if Nat flips scum I look scummy as fuck due to your scum team "guess" being more "likely".
Now why would scum Slandaar want my death? That can be explained by the meta work provided by Dark. (Thanks Dark. /sarcsm). Dark provided evidence that suggests i'm not a VT in this game

'Scum Sland would want to lynch me because he would think I am a PR but he wants to lynch Natalie over me!'

Arguments do not stack up; this is scum cognitive dissonance.

See for me to be scum wanting to lynch Absta, this argument only makes sense if I were actually trying to lynch him yet Absta himself uses the argument that I am trying to lynch Natalie over him as a scumtell.

How can both trying to lynch Absta and trying to lynch someone over Absta be a scumtell?

Answer: They can't, he is scum.

He and Natalie are buddies, book it.

DarkLightA,

Vanilla Townie

, Killed Night One

Slandaar,

Vanilla Townie

, Killed Night One

Both "vigs" claimed to kill DarkLight, so then it's obvious scum killed Slandaar.
I questioned the kill on Slandaar as I thought he was under a bit of scrutiny D1.

However, looking back, I Code_X never voted for DarkLight, but did mention him as a weak scum read towards the end of the day.

I need to do more reading before making a vote- but I thought this was important.

[Brandi]

See but also Absta has been essentially bread-crumbing a PR since D1 so that is why I'm so torn.

He seemed legitimately offended when DarkLight was "rolefishing" ... who also happened to be a vig kill.
augh.

[Brandi]

OK so.

Living Players:

xRECKONERx
DeasVail
absta101
Brandi
Purrfect Panda
Sawyer
AurorusVox

If we Mislynch today, that would mean tomorrow we would have

5 players

: 2 scum, 3 town. We would be in Lylo.
But one of the scum would have a confirmed scum kill.

So we lynch scum,
next day

3 players left.

1 scum, 2 town.
Not a favorable position. But we would still have a chance.

However, even if we lynch scum today, a mislynch tomorrow will still bring us into a 3 man.


Today is a day where we have more townies than we will ever have.


It is important to think about who the last scum is apart from either AV or Absta.


We don't want to rush this day.

It's also important to note that we still have

ONE UNCLAIMED POWER ROLE.

This could potentially save us, given the right timing.

[Brandi]

So fucking vote me Brandi.
Just get on with it already.

If I can replace in and out scum with my CC and die in the process then let's go.

This really feels like you are scum trying to rush into night again to prevent any relevant discussion :S

I might just vote you, but NOT until the rest of the town has had a chance to talk, sorry.

[Brandi]

Skimmed a bit through AV's wiki, could not find any instances of him CCing before.

Notes:
Reck is not scum with Absta
Purrfect Panda is not scum with Absta

If AV is scum, Reck is very likely scum.

need to read more into connections.

@all: If you other's could do some reading too that would help.
Looking for:

Possible Connections between Absta/Natalie/other players
Possible Connections between AV aka Code_X/Natalie/other players

[Brandi]

@MOD: VOTECOUNT PLEASE~

AV, if you are indeed town, you should realize that not instantly believing a CC and actually trying to figure things out is not scummy.
No I don't expect the town to "follow suit" and vote you- I expect the town to not rush through the day.

Also if absta is scum, I would think DV as a likely buddy.

But as it is, I am leaning towards you/reck as the scumteam. I mean... sorry your plan didn't work? lol.

[Brandi]

There's also the point of-

I don't think Absta is noob enough of a player to let his buddies include a Jailkeeper into this set up.

But Kyle99 and Code_X? more likely.


oh, and on Reck:
Reck is scummy for hopping onto the starbuck wagon, despite them knowing each-other well enough to where he was adamantly against her lynch previously.
And obviously if Absta is town then his pushes on absta look especially bad.
Other than that, Kyle99 was also very scummy as well.

[Brandi]

I'm really tired, I'm going to go through and do more in depth reading a bit later.
Please someone other than my scum reads post something of substance while I'm gone, and don't quick-lynch anyone.
More than anything right now, scum want this day to end as fast with as little discussion as possible.
Let us not give them that.

[Brandi]

Please

PURRFECT PANDA

- unvote, so no one can quickhammer.

even if you think absta is scum, we need discussion/input from other players before the day goes on.

Particularly I want to hear more from Sawyer and Deas.

[Brandi]

^and bolded cause I see her/him (whichever head is on) browsing right now.

[Brandi]

ok AV, but, why would Purrfect Panda post this, then:

I am looking for patterns. We have had one flip, there are two more scum. I went ahead and voted for Absta because that is Elmo's main scumspect, and I see enough to indicate he could be scum. Your white knighting of him though has set up my scumdar a great deal. Why are you so SURE he is town? I see two possibilities here :

1. You are scum and he is town and you are trying to get town cred for saving someone from a lynch.

2. Both of you are scum and you are trying to keep him from getting lynched.

Naw, I think you're scum over Abs.
Shamrock is the biggest scumbag but no love for that lynch

Shamrock will be dealt with tomorrow.

???? And he was dealt with by being shot. And that seems to nail it on Absta pretty firmly.

Then gets confused and freaks out when I unvote absta because of this post.

How does your theory make sense with that in mind?

Her posts essentially bring Absta out as the vig--
how would they have planned something like that in advanced and then DERP and vote someone who is obviously not on the lynch list today?

Sawyer's obv not getting lynched.

[Brandi]

Please find that game, Purrfect Panda.

I want to believe both absta and AV for different reasons.

Absta was breadcrumbing PR heavily since D1.

wait

sadjlfksdlds


Obv Breadcrumbing PR and then not getting NK'd

asjklfsklfjsljflkjsdfkljsdlfsd


my fucking brain

someone make this easy for me

I'm going to take a nap

Absta, AV, whichever one of you is scum owes me some ibuprofen