Open 442: Jungle Anarchy mod abandoned

[McStab]

More pressure on the Jigglypuff

Vote:PMysterious

[McStab]

When PM is in a game, RVS doesn't exist anymore. PMysterious is the solution to Day One's; you pressure until it either buckles or sort of leans. By then you're past RVS and we need not comeup with bad reasons to have to vote.

[McStab]

Jump on the Jigglypuff wagon with me, Code. It's the quickest way to get a game going and make a conf. town or conf. scum day one.

[McStab]

Code's response is to try and dismiss the whole case against him. Then he argues I and PM just dismissed his case by not answering his question.

Vote: Code_X

PMysterious, will you jump on the code wagon?

[McStab]

The quote was backed up with a very real vote to get me lynched...like this one right here

VOTE: Code_X

Don't like this don't like this don't like this

Vote:KrazyEyeKilla

There is a MASSIVE difference between a first RVS vote and the 5th vote on a wagon Page Two for no good reason.

Can we lynch this guy? lolololololololol

[McStab]

lol, bad play from a nubtown, especially one not adjusted to site meta, is NOT grounds for a lynch
IGMEOY, McStab

active avoidance of a question is scummy as hell looking at how Code plays like a rational guy elsewhere, so I'm totally okay with making today rather quick

besides, Krazy's vigbait for tonight; there's no good reason why he should be alive tomorrow, he'll just be a distraction.

btw, McStab, any good reason why you hopped off the wagon for a shitty nub wagon?

pedit2: jesus, guys; oh, and bork, I don't think Code was trying to insinuate that our votes are random

pedit3: -.-'

pedit4: Damnit, guys.

I don't understand why people think it's necessarily to putz around for 3 or so pages before we actually get down to shit.

pedit5: haha, ninja'd

Hang on a second, let me get this straight:

You believe that Code deserves to be lynched for posting "Can we lynch this guy?" as an RVS vote, then saying it was a joke vote (as most are in RVS). This justifies a quick Day One ("why are we messing around for more than 3 pages") mentality to you? Half the game hasn't even posted yet. How do you justify this? "Code has a rational meta, him avoiding the question is scummy."

That's a BS argument at best, and I'd eat my shoe if there's not at least one scum on that wagon.

Moreover, you then "have your eye on me", because I accused KrazyEyeKilla of being scummy for OMGUS voting. Literally, he hasn't even sheeped the shitty case you guys put together, he's just voted because he thinks one vote on him as a random vote qualifies as a lynch. There are new players unfamiliar to site meta, and then there is no signs of scumhunting.

Your weak cases are based off of loose meta reads and even then don't hold water.

[McStab]

McStab, you keep swapping your vote and trying to start a vote wagon against anyone who pushes your buttons the wrong way. I don't know if that's how you play all the time or not, but I'm not a fan of it.

Ya see, pro-town players don't know everyone's alignment to begin with, we need to try and figure that out. If you push my buttons the wrong way (e.g. set off my scumdar) I will try and get you lynched. I am willing to change this early because there is such a small sample size of information.

Your sample size, for example, is all scum. But perhaps you'll become more townish later; if that's the case, I will unvote you later.

[McStab]

The fact that "Can we lynch this guy" makes very little sense in a joking context is why I don't believe Code_X. This is why I asked him how it makes sense in a such a context.

"It was a joke" is not an acceptable answer to that.

The context: he posted a huge picture in RVS phase.

Now can we move onto a good wagon

[McStab]

I haven't read this thread at all, but this is a very important RQS.

1. Timezone?
2. Favourite faction to be in this game?
3. Who would you like to be mafia with?

1. EST
2. Scum
3. Right now, Glitah and PM. We're probably the most polar opposite viewpoints right now and we'd have done some sick bussing


Here's an RQS for kondi:

1. Why haven't you commented on Code_X, Glitah, Krazy or myself yet?

[McStab]

I'm suggesting you're arguing semantics. What are you expecting Code_X to say?

"Uh, I said it because I'm scum."

Or are you suggesting Code_X is too dense to come up with an excuse, like, oh, you know, "It related to the huge picture he posted".

This wagon is long finished, it was useful in getting us out of RVS, now it's time to look at real scum. It doesn't matter if he's new to the website, he's being far too self-conscious and insecure over votes on him, and he isn't legitimately scumhunting. He is OMGUS voting. Krazy is a fine wagon to jump aboard.

[McStab]

I'm not indulging RQS when we've got perfectly good discussion going already. Make yourself comfortable with that.

@McStab: Referring to the picture posted would've eased my mind a little. But only Krazy and you ever brought that up.

Krazy is a shit wagon. It matters very much that he's new to the site.

So players new to the site can't draw scum? I must've missed that part of the ruleset

[McStab]

Literally, if someone can bring up a valid argument other than "Krazy is new" as to why he's not scum, please do so. I'm not going to refuse to scumhunt on a player because he doesn't know site meta, and the way he is acting is consistent with that of scum.

[McStab]

@Blastoide: I put my vote on Code_X to see if he'd either backpedal or someone else would jump on for a bad reason. I got the latter when KrazyEyeKilla jumped on.

I feel like I'm beating a dead horse here, but can someone point out to me why Krazy can't be scum despite being a new player? He isn't trying to scumhunt at all, and I don't care how new you are, he doesn't wish to scumhunt. He won't back a post up with a vote, he won't outright accuse someone of scum, and, most importantly:

You all claim he is new and that's why he hasn't been voting and legitimately scumhunting etc.

Yet he decides to put the 5th vote (by far the closest to a lynch) on Code_X earlier and means it as a lynch, for what amounts to "OMGUS".

Seriously? He is trying to get away with not scumhunting by claiming voting to lynch is bad on Day One (or at least in his mind it is). Then he puts the 5th vote on a wagon for OMGUS.

My reads on others are coming soon, but I seriously think that everyone should start looking at his content, not just his damned join date.

[McStab]

It's not thrown away. You get to change it, you know, and it's highly unlikely everyone will jump on your wagon.

So, you won't throw it away on someone who might not be scum? So Code_X, the only person you've voted for then, HAS to be scum? Please, do tell us how, since you seem to only vote when they CAN'T be scum (or at least are very close to unlikely to be scum)?

How do you propose we find scum then, if we don't use our vote? Also, how did I take anything you said out of context?

[McStab]

The quote was backed up with a very real vote to get me lynched...like this one right here

VOTE: Code_X

Tell me, KrazyEyeKilla, how does that post up there correlate with this:


"I was saying that I'm not certain that Code X is scum, so I'm not going to throw away my vote if he truly is town."

Didn't know you read everything twice. BUT I will say that practically nobody is really standing up to defend Code. So (and I'm not pointing fingers) either most of us are stupid or the few (I think 2, maybe 3) people who ARE defending him are scum. I personally don't know right now, and given the current situation and the fact that we have weeks to make a decision..I'll withdraw my vote for now until we have more inclination to lynch.

UNVOTE: Code_X

^^Let me get this straight: Because very few people are standing up to defend him, those who are must be scum, while the town, working in perfect conjunction, is obviously town.

But then you don't know all of a sudden, and you're unvoting until there is more of an "inclination to lynch".

This is OPPORTUNISM, not scumhunting.



Ah, but it gets better, in his most recent post, Krazy says:

"Probably why Code shouldn't have opened with a "joke" reaction-fishing comment. Though I think a bw would have been started against me if Code found what he was looking for. Right now all I've gotten is the why-not's instead of evidence. Which now that I think about it, is pretty scummy behavior from the people who are against me (imho) like such:"

He goes on to target Glitah. Glitah who has previously been advocating for Code_X's lynch, and, as we can see from Krazy's unvote post, is clearly a town player. But now that Glitah targets him, Glitah is scum?

Things don't add up here, and everyone is busy arguing about kondi's dumb RQS ploy. The only things I've gathered from it are seilkops overreacting (perhaps a scumtell, perhaps frustrated town) and kondi doing a reaction test (but it's super obvious, so it doesn't put him into the town pile either).

Fluff and smoke and people fanning flames. Krazy is scum right under your noses. Forget wasting a vig kill on him, I want a lynch. I want to see who's gonna go down fighting for him.


@Greygnarl: Bad reason for voting me, scummy reason for voting me. You're voting me because I'm tunnelling on someone I'm convinced is scum and have provided ample reasoning for?

How does he being a newbie explain the constant flip-flopping, lack of consistent reads, lack of scumhunting, overreactions to pressure, and inconsistency in voting policy?

[McStab]

You're comparing two posts that are literally pages of discussion apart from each other. Opinions can change, Stab. It's not All of the sudden...unlike YOU, who voted for someone and then not even 3 posts later, turned on me because of what I said.

I'm not targeting Glitah, because I didn't vote for him. I didn't say he was scum. I'm just bringing out my own thoughts on what was said. It's not ample reasoning when you're just spouting out "What you say is scummy because I say it is."

To be honest, you're so bloodthirsty and quick to start bw's it makes me question where your allegiance lies in this match.

I already explained my vote on Code_X, I don't know if you missed that or you're intentionally misconstruing it. My opinion changed when you jumped on the wagon I was on at the time; this shows I wasn't being opportunist, I actually cared about catching scum. Two points that counter your "opinions can change":

1. You apparently only vote when you are sure someone isn't scum.

2. Your opinion changed on him immediately after he attacked you.

Since you don't vote people unless you're certain, you are fanning the flames on Glitah by saying that he has engaged in "pretty scummy behavior" at which point you cite a quote by him. Saying someone has engaged in pretty scummy behaviour and then targeting them specifically is the closest you can get to targeting someone without voting him.

You now attack my alignment because I want to push for your lynch. Yes, I do want to push for your lynch, I am bloodthirsty for your lynching in this game. Why? Because I think you're scum. If you were truly interested in finding scum you would get off the pacifist wagon and start doing some real scumhunting.

And finally, you are most definitely misconstruing what I've said about you if you think the only reasoning I've placed on why you're scummy is "What you say is scummy because I say it is". No, I've made two or three large posts with very specific accusations as to why you are scummy, and you've failed to respond to a single point adequately.

[McStab]

Blatant prod-dodgery till I organize my thoughts

[McStab]

VOTE: PMysterious

let's get this out of the way, nobody wants to hear more from Jigglypuff

VOTE: Giitah

VOTE: Giitah

Obvious reasons pointed above.

^^OMGUS Vote

I haven't read this thread at all, but this is a very important RQS.

1. Timezone?
2. Favourite faction to be in this game?
3. Who would you like to be mafia with?

I'll answer your RQS.


1. Central
2. Scum
3.I'm kondi2424's scum partner so how do I answer this? OH. I mean, anybody but Kondi!

Um, hi scum.
Hammer time guys.
We get this
train moving and
get moving along.

UNVOTE: Giitah
VOTE: seilkops

I still think 3 just gave you and your Wolf partner away. Nice try.

^^^This is the most incoherent, poor attempt to appear you're scumhunting ever. You really think WolfKondi just laid out a trap for WolfSeilkops and then let everyone know he sprung the trap?

I'd like to hear from PM on his decision to name two players Wolves. Kondi, and myself. After doing so, he never posted again.

PM: Leaning Scum

Oh, sorry. The reason why I'm trying to push it is because you gave yourself away. If I'm wrong, you can lynch me the next day.

^^^This kind of certainty makes me uncomfortable. Also, although this is a fight for a different day, seilkops called PM scum for essentially no other reason than OMGUS.

This is just sad. If you are town, which I doubt, then you aren't helping out at all. You have been focusing on Kondi the entire time except for maybe your last few posts. It looks like you gave up. Or doing the pity tactic that scum do, but we'll see.

I want to know where Andrew went. He made one post and left!
I am also getting a little suspicious of PMystery. I'm gonna read through in a bit.

I mention him, and he appears. Just like magic!

PM seems certain I'm scum, he's expressing generally the same sentiment as you, why get suspicious?

. If I'm not town like you say I am, why bring that up? I think Kondi and PM are scum. Possibly Triangle also. I can't say I'm sure all 3 are scum, but I'm confident scum is at the least one of them. Either way, I don't mind sacrificing my life in order to see them dead.
I'm not asking for pity. Did you even read my post? I haven't given up, so don't portray me like I have.

I'm not sure if I like your post here. Stop trying to make it look like I'm giving up on this game. I'm not. I think my life is worth a scum death, and I'm certain scum is one of those three people, if not all.

Blastoide: Slight lean towards scum

You stated it right on your RQs. You

GAVE

yourself away. If you are wolf, we know who your partner is. Either way, I know I'm dead.

^^Why do you think you'll be dead?

Exactly. Town is as vital as Scum. We need the big numbers for Town and small numbers for Scum. If the are a minority, keep them a minority.

^^^What does this even mean?

[McStab]

Ah, that makes alot more sense. My apologies, PM. Still, the other statements don't quite fit. Not quite sure whether to attribute this to his VI status or weird alignment. I would like to hear him post a bit more though.

[McStab]

Just a note, this is a very enjoyable first game for me

All scumhunting aside, I'm glad to hear

[McStab]

Seilkops, your self-sacrifice is noble, but all it's doing is allowing scum to pile on and mislynch you, and then lynch others the next few days.

So let's assume you're correct, and that Kondi, PM, Triangle, and Glitah are all scum. Do you honestly think you being lynched Day One when you're asking for it will lead to an unalterable course of action that lynches all four of those players, and that it won't be disintegrated?

What if you're way off, and you cause the deaths of four other town on top of yourself (assuming you're speaking from a town perspective)? Then you've single-handedly thrown the game.

Anything in the middle is just as likely to be derailed or line up townie mislynches. This plan is bad.

I do find it interesting how Krazy jumped on board with it without question. Sure, it's a good point that he's bringing it upon himself, but self-sacrifice =/= good reason to go along with it.

[McStab]

Fair enough.

[McStab]

I like how he joined the site, basically called me a shithead, and rode off into the sunset.

Good night sweet prince.

He's not our hero. He's a silent guardian...a watchful protector...a dark knight.

You either die a hero, or you live long enough to see yourself become the villain.

No tears now. Only dreams.
RIP
Insert_Name_Here

Vote:seilkops

[McStab]

Nice seeing both of you, welcome to the game. Hyperion, top two scum and townreads?

[McStab]

Policy lynch

Vote:PMysterious

GOGOGOGOGOGO

[McStab]

If by grudge you mean "I think he's a threat to whatever team he's on, be it town, Werewolves, or Mafia" then yes, yes I do. Literally everyone in the game has motive to vote for him. It's the posterboy of policy lynches.

[McStab]

Sorry but

Mod, I will be VLA for up to one week, I should still be able to maintain some limited access.

[McStab]

Gotta reread, catchup post coming in a day or so.

[McStab]

Sorry I haven't been giving this game the attention it needs, I've been super busy with school. My next post will be soon and will discuss Venrob, Kondi/Rach, and Inte.

[McStab]

I didn't take the time to make a wallpost, but looking over Triangle's ISO, I think that the following are true:

Krazy or PMysterious are most likely to be his werewolf partner.

Venrob and UberNinja are unlikely to be his partner.


In a game this size on Day One, it seems to me quite unlikely that the Werewolf faction would try to bus, and he tried to go after UberNinja for most of the day, while constantly mentioning he would settle on a Venrob lynch. He consistently tried to exonerate Krazy and, in a little bit less pronounced fashion, PMysterious.

While this analysis does ignore the Mafia's impact on the game, I'm inclined to think it's easier to hunt Werewolves right now, given the lack of a Mafia flip. I personally would be fine with either a Krazy or PM lynch. Keep in mind that even if we're wrong with Krazy or PM being the other werewolf partner, they've both acted scummy enough to potentially be Mafia anyway.

Vote:KrazyEyeKilla

[McStab]

I can't say I like UN's style of finding scum, but Policy Lynching him at this stage is absolutely ridiculous. I can go for a PM lynch, I think it quite probable he's scum and we really aren't losing much, but a Krazy lynch is preferable to me.

[McStab]

Waiting for people to get behind Krazy or PM, not changing to Whiskers or UN right now.

[McStab]

ACtually scratch PM he's replacing out so his slot can wait till a replacement gets in

[McStab]

One way or another, we need a flip, because this game is lagged as hell. Right now my only supersolid townread is Hyperion, but I think Whiskers-UN is more likely to be some combo of Town-Town or Mafia-Town as opposed to werewolves. Still think the PM/Krazy slots are likely to be lurker Mafia or Werewolf.

[McStab]

Funny how UberNinja's so blind to what's happening that he doesn't realize Krazy just cameup with a really lame and opportunistic reason to change his view on Bork and jump on SOLELY because he was worried about his own death.

[McStab]

Krazy might suck, but that's no reason to prioritize him over a very reasonable wagon aimed at the potential wolfbuddy, which would be huge.

Also, how about some activity?

You're blind. The Krazy wagon is a very reasonable wagon aimed at the potential wolfbuddy WITH a bonus chance of catching Mafia.

UN should be vigged, but I'm not replacing out. Solid, I won't buy that you're town if you continue to push the divisiveness that's clearly hurting the game unless you join me on Krazy. Your "read" on bork is pathetic, same with the rest. Krazy's where it's at.

[McStab]

Have you actually read Krazy's posts, McStab?

Like, more than just on the surface? Do you know what reading between the lines is?

I made my case Day One and today as well, and it holds true regardless of how mindlessly you push. Reading between the lines is a shitty way of saying "I don't have a real case and I can't cite any good examples", so yes, I know what reading between the lines is.

You replacing out isn't THAT bad of an idea, you know, considering you've caused at least two others to do so.

[McStab]

Yeah and there's two more now because you and Uber have this insistence to push a wagon regardless of reason or logic. You two are the root of the divisiveness because you're not the scummiest today, but you certainly are paralyzing us with your adamant push on bork. I'm not changing my vote, and if bork flips town, I best be getting some sheep afterwards on Krazy instead of this pointless crusading you and UN have been masquerading all day.

[McStab]

Point 1: So the people on a wagon have no impact on a wagon? LOL

2. Greywing is gone. Inte is playing normally, that is, he doesn't often listen. Krazy is trying to survive because the other wagon is HIM. So let's take a check: The people supporting your wagon are: Inte, you, UN (who is causing more problems than he's worth), Krazy (who's just doing it to survive) and someone who replaced out. Krazy was pushed by Greywing yesterday with me anyway if you think replacing out people count, and Hyperion and Whiskers were supportive of Krazy over Bork.

Point 3: Because your screaming asshole minority became the majority through getting the players supporting my wagon to replace out. Congratulations if that's what you were all going for.

Point 4: Yeah, scumteam of Hyperion-Whiskers-Bork-PM-Greywing/ whoever else replaced out. I'm sure we can read into the replacing out as scumtells.

5. So you're going to cease scumhunting because a lynch can't go through? Not very motivated, are we solid?


@Your mod intervention: I agree we need some replacements, but I contend that any issue brought up in dialogue here is legitimate gameplay. If people are reprimanded, mod-killed, or force-replaced solely on the basis of replacing out and discussion of replacing out, then you can count me out of this game on matters of principle. Until that happens, I'm fine with staying in.

[McStab]

Yeah I called Krazy as scum Day One.

Solid, I didn't actually think you were responsible for divisiveness, at least anymore than any player in the game. I was just saying that to try and put a damper on any scumhunting you had.

Bad modding, but other than that a fun game as scum. Shame with all the replace-outs, and I didn't really like UN's method of trying to convince people to his way of thinking, but I usually just react by being as bullheaded as he is to those kinda things, so, no hard feelings to UN from me.

Krazy, hope you had some fun in your first game anyway, most of the time games don't get mod-abandoned, and there's usually a level of professionalism well above this. Kcda should be ashamed that he couldn't even bother finding a backup mod.

[McStab]

For one, the lack of replacements. I understand it may be difficult, but you need to be prepared to actively find replacements. If he'd kept up with it, he wouldn't have had a huge backlog of replacements.

Two, the lack of finding a backup mod. If you're not qualified to mod it yourself at least find someone else who can.

Three, the inactivity near the end of the game where he was most needed to salvage it.

Four, just giving up at the end. If you can't handle the heat of modding, then don't do it. I'm not sure I could be a capable mod, so I don't mod games. It's simple enough.

Five, not using WoTC. It was evident at some point in the game that at least three players couldn't stand UberNinja to the point of replacing out. Regardless of whether UberNinja warranted replacing (I don't think personally he did) it ought to be possible to get someone replaced if the majority of the active players in the game want it to the point where they'll replace out. Especially considering that Whiskers, Bork and Hyperion have played in and completed a handful of other games and to my knowledge have had no disciplinary problems, whereas UN is currently serving a one week ban. It's a no-brainer to me that instead of losing those three UN ought to have been force replaced.


So yeah, Kcda is going on my blacklist, and I've never blacklisted anyone before; because a player error or a mod error are one things, but a mod flaking because they are having some sort of crisis in motivation on this site is inexcusable. Don't sign up for the job if you aren't committed to finish it; simple enough. Or do a setup that isn't 15 players with three factions that will last awhile, and stick with a small game like Vengeful to start off, if you don't think you'll have the time.

[McStab]

Sure, go ahead