Open 446: C9++ (Avast! Viruses!) - GAME OVER

[DoomYoshi]

VOTE: elmo

Speedlynch Go! Go! Go!

[DoomYoshi]

VOTE: Elmo TeH AzN

We still quick lynching me?

No. You ruined it by posting

UNVOTE:

Why did you claim so early bitmap? I am getting the feeling you are a dangerous MYLO player. Would you agree with this Statement, or is this just. Thing you have going with the pony?

[DoomYoshi]

VOTE: Elmo TeH AzN

We still quick lynching me?

No. You ruined it by posting

UNVOTE:

Why did you claim so early bitmap? I am getting the feeling you are a dangerous MYLO player. Would you agree with this Statement, or is this just. Thing you have going with the pony?

yer out!

VOTE: DeathYoshi

Wait, what? I will judge by your answer to this question whether are not you take this game seriously, as I am borderline on ignoring you completely already.

We still quick lynching me?

I'm down if you are. Thoughts on stuff?

Why did you claim so early bitmap? I am getting the feeling you are a dangerous MYLO player. Would you agree with this Statement, or is this just. Thing you have going with the pony?

There's a page of Bitmap material. Why are you focusing on the serial killer claim? What does being "a dangerous MYLO player" have to do with what's going on in this game?

I am not focusing on his serial killer claim. I am obviously referring to his claim of vanilla. If on page 2 a player has already asked a ridiculous question for no reason and then claimed, I don't want them around near the end of the game. However, bitmap didn't answer the question.

applejack + doomyoshi scum partners?

mb

Yet now you aren't voting for either of us? What made you think this?

specifically, i was referring more to the "i don't have to worry about being lynched" bit.

rainbowdash has suggested an early game alliance before (pre-crash) and i was pretty sure she was town then

but fuck meta yo'

i'm more worried about mr. yoshi over here

Why are you worried about me?

I have to say the "I'm sooooo obviously townietownietown" from bitmap is the sort of thing he did in the game I've played with him. And he was town. And it got pointed out. I say it's null via meta.

But still, for all the stuff said by Rainbowdash page 2.

VOTE: Bitmap

Why are you voting someone who already claimed? Don't you think it's a bit early to end the day with a lynch?

[DoomYoshi]

What the hell, bitmap did you delete a post in which you claimed vanilla townie?

[DoomYoshi]

Actually, I'm town. I know I'm town. Me being lynched D1 doesn't matter at all. It feels like Open 421 all over again.

VOTE: RBD

Oh no, here it is.

[DoomYoshi]

VOTE: elmo

Speedlynch Go! Go! Go!

why speedlynch elmo? what history do you have with him?

No history, just a random name I picked.

VOTE: Elmo TeH AzN

We still quick lynching me?

No. You ruined it by posting

UNVOTE:

Why did you claim so early bitmap? I am getting the feeling you are a dangerous MYLO player. Would you agree with this Statement, or is this just. Thing you have going with the pony?

what did he ruin? how does him posting during a speed lynch affect his alignment?

He ruined it by posting, the point of the speedlynch is to kill them before they have a chance to post. It's particularly awesome if they are preparing a lengthy defense and get fastposted with their own death scene. I don't think it affects his alignment.

Actually, I'm town. I know I'm town. Me being lynched D1 doesn't matter at all. It feels like Open 421 all over again.

VOTE: RBD

Oh no, here it is.

why did you interpret it as a claim? i say even PR's don't matter in being lynched as long as it leads to a scum lynch

If we lynched Bitmap right now and he was cop how would it help us exactly? Not very much, that statement could only sensibly precede a vanilla claim, or a power role specifically trying to lay low. Either way, bitmap's desired plan is to convince players of vanillaness.

[DoomYoshi]

Also, when you voted Elmo TeH AzN, how serious were you in accomplishing a lynch?

I think speedlynches can be hilarious. I wouldn't flip out and complain if he was speedlynched, but I didn't seriously expect it to happen. Does that answer your question?

[DoomYoshi]

Is Bitmap a hydra? Even if so, the constant referral of it as a they makes my brain hurtededed.

[DoomYoshi]

If I was a vig, I would shoot inte and RBD.

Vig will only get one shot per night, who should he target first?

VOTE: mcstab

For laying too low. There is a reasonable low, and then there is limbo champion here McStab.

[DoomYoshi]

How is Elmo town?

Also, I wasn't rolefishing. It looked like an obvious claim to me. The ponies know what I am talking about but inte, demon and others... Like bitmap himself, don't know what I am talking about. Whatevs, if it's not a claim, then it's not a claim. I drop the point.

That's nice stab, buti hope you understand Im not moving the vote until you do post something of substance.

[DoomYoshi]

Hmm, so Elmo, PB, seilkops, mcstab, defender and Sivure are all in various stages of inactivity.

Of the 7 players left: bitmap, inte, myself and the ponies don't interest me.

Which leaves soldistate or demon core as interest points. Demon core is onto me for unspecified reasons. Still waiting on more clarification there. Soldistate seems more town than anyone. Willing to bet that our 6 inactives contain the scum. Also probably why Sivure wanted to replace out, no?

I am watching that slot like a hawk now. Maybe we should just lynch the slot to save yabba the work?

[DoomYoshi]

It depends on where your vote goes next, I suppose. If he didn't ask for replacement, I would be on same wagon with you. So, right now, no.

[DoomYoshi]

I'm a doc. Sorry to play so awful up to this point.

Anyways, general replies:
The attack on inte was based on his page 3 posts. I thought he may have been a spammer, as I am not familiar with him. I am not the only one who called him on this either.

I don't understand why I keep getting accused of rolefishing, now for the vig. I am fine keeping my vote where it is, as that is a baseless accusation.

Hunting inactives works... See?

[DoomYoshi]

VOTE: Elmo TeH AzN

We still quick lynching me?

No. You ruined it by posting

UNVOTE:

Why did you claim so early bitmap? I am getting the feeling you are a dangerous MYLO player. Would you agree with this Statement, or is this just. Thing you have going with the pony?

^^This is a weird statement to say, it definitely rubs me the wrong way.

So...?

In post #74, DoomYoshi's statement of:


"Wait, what? I will judge by your answer to this question whether are not you take this game seriously, as I am borderline on ignoring you completely already."

Is a very aggressive, oversensitive response to a single vote without much weight on it.

Already addressed.

I think speedlynches can be hilarious. I wouldn't flip out and complain if he was speedlynched, but I didn't seriously expect it to happen. Does that answer your question?

^^This shows no signs of real scumhunting. He thinks it would be funny to quicklynch someone in RVS. It probably would be, but it's inexcusable to do so for no reason whatsoever.

bullshit. I think it's funny whether I am scum or town. It was not only my first post of the game, but also the very first post of the game! I am sorry that when I explained the first post of the game it didn't show signs of scumhunting. Next time, if I post first, I will definitely have a list of tells. Also, if it's inexcusable, why single me out for a wagon that many others were on? Elmo himself even voted for the wagon and Agrees that it would have been funny. Does that mean he is scum?

If I was a vig, I would shoot inte and RBD.

Vig will only get one shot per night, who should he target first?

VOTE: mcstab

For laying too low. There is a reasonable low, and then there is limbo champion here McStab.

^Rolefishing for the vig? Either way I don't see how his question pertains to scumhunting.

I wasn't rolefishing, I was just clarifying a point that bitmap brought up. If asking another player which of two players is most scummy is a)not scumhunting b)rolefishing and c)scummy then slap in the face and call me Tarzan. Basically, I was asking is inte or RBD more scummy to you? I phrased it within the contexts of bitmap's point.

Then attacking inactives because he can't really put his mind to scumhunting (I was on V/LA at the time).

You weren't even here so you can't say "oh doom yoshi isn't scumhunting". you know who isn't scumhunting? The 6 inactives we had!!

How is Elmo town?

Also, I wasn't rolefishing. It looked like an obvious claim to me. The ponies know what I am talking about but inte, demon and others... Like bitmap himself, don't know what I am talking about. Whatevs, if it's not a claim, then it's not a claim. I drop the point.

That's nice stab, buti hope you understand Im not moving the vote until you do post something of substance.

^Retracts his statement when put under pressure. Creates the illusion that I'm dodging him, despite only a few hours passing between my post and this one.

Sorry for creating an illusion, it wasnt my intent. And you are misrepresenting. I retracted a statement when I realized it was wrong. Not when put under pressure.

Hmm, so Elmo, PB, seilkops, mcstab, defender and Sivure are all in various stages of inactivity.

Of the 7 players left: bitmap, inte, myself and the ponies don't interest me.

Which leaves soldistate or demon core as interest points. Demon core is onto me for unspecified reasons. Still waiting on more clarification there. Soldistate seems more town than anyone. Willing to bet that our 6 inactives contain the scum. Also probably why Sivure wanted to replace out, no?

I am watching that slot like a hawk now. Maybe we should just lynch the slot to save yabba the work?

^^^Nice logic to keep focusing on inactives. "Half the game is inactive; I can't come up with real points on the ones posting, so I'll target the inactives! Through my genius use of PoE I've came to the conclusion that there MUST be scum amongst 6 of the 13 players in the game!"

It doesn't change the fact that you're targeting of inactives is an easy way to fake scumhunting, scum.

It also doesn't change the fact that your OMGUS is an easy way to fake scumhunting.

Vote: DoomYoshi

gogogogogogogogo

[DoomYoshi]

Ok that's actually pretty persuasive on the whole.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: DoomYoshi

Which I think puts him at L-1, so triggerhappy people chill and give him a chance to post.

Did you actually read the points or did you just tl;dr baa baa baa?

[DoomYoshi]

Actually, instead of mcstab replying to me, solid state should replying his stead. If the points are so good, soldistate will be able to defend them. If not, I am switching votes. First ultimatum of the game.

[DoomYoshi]

VOTE: Solidstate

The case that mcstab presented on me, which you agreed with included two parts I would like to draw your attention to:
A) Elmo quicklynch. Defender was anti-Elmo wagon AND so were you!
B) I was lurker voting. Since you can't be voting for defender for the anti wagon comments, you must be voting him for lurking. If i am scummy for lurker voting, why is it ok when you do it?

Basically, you seem to be jumping on any wagon with wheels.

[DoomYoshi]

Hmm, so Elmo, PB, seilkops, mcstab, defender and Sivure are all in various stages of inactivity.

Of the 7 players left: bitmap, inte, myself and the ponies don't interest me.

Which leaves soldistate or demon core as interest points. Demon core is onto me for unspecified reasons. Still waiting on more clarification there.

Soldistate seems more town than anyone

. Willing to bet that our 6 inactives contain the scum. Also probably why Sivure wanted to replace out, no?

I am watching that slot like a hawk now. Maybe we should just lynch the slot to save yabba the work?

Why the sudden change of heart?

I don't care if he claimed doc, I want to lynch him now. He's scum. There's no point in letting scum live.

I have presented in two posts why the sudden change in heart.

I've never played with either of these ponies (RD,AJ), but I don't like their buddy buddyness.

We've played together in several games, with the most recent two as opposite alignments. I'm hoping we're on the same side this time because a pony alliance would make this game at least 20% cooler; it might be the same with Rainbowdash.

You weren't even here so you can't say "oh doom yoshi isn't scumhunting". you know who isn't scumhunting? The 6 inactives we had!!

Does this mean the other 7 active players were scum hunting and that you thought they were all town?

No, I was pointing out the hypocritical mess of an argument, not trying to defend active players.

hey yoshi man this isn't looking good

Agreed.

Mcstab, soldistate, I'm sorry I was mean to you. Now that I have dropped the attitude, i still think a)soldistate is mindlessly bandwagoning and b)mindlessly bandwagoning is scummy.

[DoomYoshi]

K.

Could you address my replies to your points for the reasons I am scum? Or do you concede all open points?

[DoomYoshi]

I am very worried I am playing this game incorrectly. I have contrasting reads with several older players.

Don't worry about it. At the end of the day, we are just schmucks with reads.

I am in the same boat as McStab. I really cannot look past DoomYoshi's play. If he is a doctor I will be saddened.

What abut my play can you not get past? The Only point you have raised against me is the Semi-attack on inte, which I replied to. Are there further points?

Bitmap, any thoughts on the wagons du jour?

[DoomYoshi]

I never replied to this:

However, for the sake of actually being on a wagon since no one is on RBD with me, I'll
UNVOTE:
VOTE: inte

And this wasn't shamelessly bandwagoning? Solidstate's behaviour hasn't changed, you've just started attacking it because he's bandwagoning against you.

However, if this is true, it just means I am a moron, not that I am scummy.

[DoomYoshi]

I admit I don't want to be around at LyLo.


If I was stuck with it, town would lose. Keep me alive now, feel free to Vig or kill me closer to LyLo.

Why do you play this game?

V/LA Till Sat

So you will analyze then?

I am very tired tonight. I will be able to get to those tomorrow, sometime.

I thank those who are taking up the reigns of my suspicions.

I do not feel comfortable voting the same person Rainbow is voting.

unvote

Why the sudden rbd hatred?

[DoomYoshi]

The reasons ARE obvious though.

Let's play a game carto. Count how many times solid lies or misrepresents something in post 176. Then, if your tally is above 1, the reason is obvious.

[DoomYoshi]

The problem with the defender lynch is that we are arguing over how bad of a player defender is - which defender has admitted. But being a bad player is not the same as being scummy. At this point, I FOS all on that wagon, the case has gone as far as it can go. There are better options.

[DoomYoshi]

So, impasse?

[DoomYoshi]

I don't really like DoomYoshi all that much but he's certainly not scum with Bitmap.

As in, I am scum, or that you just don't like me on a personal level?

[DoomYoshi]

Mod (Yabba) Please replace me. I can't seem to get into this for the life of me =/ Sorry

I guess a speedlynch wouldn't have been that bad then.

[DoomYoshi]

Ok, perhaps I am wrong about solid.

UNVOTE: most likely scum
VOTE: Defender

[DoomYoshi]

I don't understand that a game with like 5 posts a day has people asking for replacement...? I am going to suggest that those are more likely to be scum slots that are replacing out... does this make sense, or am I being outrageous here?

[DoomYoshi]

UNVOTE:

I just don't see how Defender's actions cross the bridge from "bad town" into "scum". I am not sure where to look though, so I eagerly await some input from the new replacements and then I will go from there.

[DoomYoshi]

I switched because I felt the game was stalling and I was unable to convince players to join. After joining, I got cold feet for being on a case that is really just a coinflip for me.

My gut is telling me Inte is town, but your case is pretty convincing. I am going to have to mull this one over. Your noticed connection between inte and Bitmap is the most promising part.

The case on RBD seems curious. Almost everyone is attacking it from a different angle. My angle: If I was wrong in assuming a VT claim, and bitmap already denied it, why are you using that to clear bitmap RBD?

Fastposted by inte: I know it is easier to see things from your own perspective, but that isn't the reason I unvoted.

[DoomYoshi]

If a day 2 massclaim is instant win, why bother playing?

[DoomYoshi]

RBD:

still haven't answered my last question to you, but I have a new one.

If: (and I agree with this) solid is scummy for not responding to me/discrediting me
Then: mcstab is also scummy for not responding to my wall except via discredit

Yes?

Cart:

When a game is going at around 5 posts a day (out of 13 players) can you suggest why someone would want to flake out? Not just 1 person either, it's like a wave of moral depravity is infesting this site... I just wanted an explanation for this in terms of game mechanics.

McStab:

Applejack scum? Da fuck?

[DoomYoshi]

I am in disbelief that the preceding post finally happened.

Defender, can you differentiate between the ponies please? While they have shown similar attitudes and trajectories towards you and solid, they have been very different on other ideas (bitmap's VT claim for example). I know it seems like they are a unit, but it's not like they got their roles and then decided on names.

[DoomYoshi]

Thank god this finally came around again.

VOTE: solidstate.

Although, we probably shouldn't lynch until our next replacement comes in and adds yet another set of fresh eyes.

[DoomYoshi]

VOTE: mcstab

For laying too low. There is a reasonable low, and then there is limbo champion here McStab.

QFT

[DoomYoshi]

My case on you is not lurking anymore. My case on you is that you never replied to my wall. Basically, you had no reason for voting me, and will take the time to defend yourself, but not the cases you make. That is scummy.

VOTE: McStab

Nice try.

[DoomYoshi]

Hey, Azusa, I will answer your question in a sec, I just wanted a word in edgewise first while I am still digesting the walls. Just to clarify your questions are:

What did you mean by "I guess i was wrong about solid"?
And... I can't find another one.

McStavb:. As much as you can call OMGUS on me, don't forget that I called it on you first. So, while RBD may be OMGUS (I can't speak for ponies) my vote/case on you isn't. I still hold the same sense that I held right after I claimed. Your case was terrible, and solid is scum, or a bad player, for finding it convincing.

Anyways, onto going to figure out the answer. My vague recollection is that I said that in connection to rbd finding a town tell,

[DoomYoshi]

I was just saying that RBD might be right in that solid is town. After that, I went into a bleh vote. Not a strong post at all. I still don't see any conclusions that a townie would make that a scum wouldn't by solid. My thought process exactly at the time is : soldistate is obviously very scummy, but I Might be wrong about him being scum. Make sense?

[DoomYoshi]

Also, I think it's unfair for us to be forced to deadline lynch while we are still waiting for a replacement.

[DoomYoshi]

Carto'sost there was awful, but it seems like more of a derp than anything. I am not in support of a carto lynch.

[DoomYoshi]

Applejack is more likely to be scum, yes. Not obvscum though. Buddying isn't only a scum tactic.

[DoomYoshi]

Nacho gave support to the mcstab wagon. I would suggest that indicative of intent to lynch earlier, but let's see what nacho has to say.

[DoomYoshi]

Why would a town PR be antagonistic to no end?

Either you are a such a troll that you cannot control yourself, or you have the destruction of town as your goal. This is why I don't buy your claim. Nothing you have done this game is helpful. Why would you put forward shitty cases and try to spin the game as a big grudge match if you have a PR? If you can answer that, I will Unvote you.

When there are 2-4 scum in a game, a list of 3 scum should be strong enough evidence to vote for 1 of the 3. Without Naho's input, not much can be said though.

[DoomYoshi]

I am not voting you for lurking. Quit being an asshat. Travesty or not, you brought this on your self.
UNVOTE:

No, bitmap, we didn't. Mcstab and I just had a conversation about him.

Carto, this is not very high level play either. It is a mental workout.

Inte, if I voted carto now, wouldn't it be opportunistic since his last two posts are shitty?

Therefore I can't vote him or your rage will be unleashed. You are going to have to push that on your own.

[DoomYoshi]

Btw, it doesn't seem like all T2s are weaker. Cop and vig are both strictly better than 1-shot cop and vig. Should I still protect seilkops tonight or should I protect mcstab who might be the cop (since he prob isn't the vig)? Although since mcstab said the roles aren't as powerful, that narrows the field to 1-shot doc or 1-shot roleblocker. If he was doc, he would believe my claim more likely, which means he must be 1-shot roleblock (or mason, which I doubt, unless masoned with demon core).

So, is it worth protecting a 1-shot roleblocker or should I just protect seilkops?

Fastposted: It may be a crime, but if I vote for a wagon not going anywhere, it is equivalent. Unless you want me to vote for you?

[DoomYoshi]

Ok. Sounds good. Waiting on inte's reply. If the game is too hard for carto, I may help and make it easier for him.

[DoomYoshi]

I bet nacho is just going to drop out rather than read all this game.

So both inte and applejack decided this game sucks... You two should chill out, it's only day 1, town has a good chance of winning still. Inte, you should practice your rhetoric. I am not sure what you are trying to say half the time.

I am not seeking your approval, I am just pointing out to you how bs the claims of "opportunistic" were. Voting someone for doing something scummy isn't exactly opportunistic - it's what I consider proper play.

I don't think I am revoting today. Not going to support an applejack lynch, and probably not going to lynch. Demon core is likely scum. And yea, I know it's opportunistic to say that the player not even here is scum, but deal with it.

P-EDIT: I want a claim from mcstab. Will revote if necessary.

[DoomYoshi]

Grrr. Maybe i don't want a claim from mcstab. Going to bed now. Deal with it in the morning.

[DoomYoshi]

Reminder from the rules:

-Basic civility is expected of all players. You are probably going to argue, but that does not give you the right to be jerks to each other on a personal level.

[DoomYoshi]

I ain't pointing fingers. Just reminding people that it is in the rules. I have thick skin, but don't want to see our party prematurely end due to modkill or somethIng.

[DoomYoshi]

Fair enough, let's head to night. Any final comments before I hammerdrop?

I have a town read on applejack, but the AtE did destroy that. This recent stunt didn't help either.

[DoomYoshi]

Solidstate is scummiest player. Solidstate likes defender lynch.

VOTE: applejack

[DoomYoshi]

Me yoshi

[DoomYoshi]

Ok, we have time. Mcstab needs to claim.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: mcstab

[DoomYoshi]

Pretty sure what happened: I protected seilkops, McStab protected me. We don't have a vig. Any vig who shot RBD is known as an SK where I come from.

What is your role McStab? You don't have to tell me whether or not you used it last night. I just want 100% confirmation on it now.

[DoomYoshi]

No offense taken; look forward to playing with you again.

I'd say the slot is town assuming she follows through with her replacement, but pushing the mass claim idea after claiming to replace out makes me think she has more of an agenda beyond her show of emotion. Don't get me wrong, there may be some merit to a massclaim, I just think it's peculiar that she bothers bringing that up right after she asks to be replaced out. Making the whole vig-SK distinction strikes me as peculiar also, the Mafia would have a better idea as to whether an SK is in the game or not, and so if we find out there is a Vig rather than an SK, I really think this slot should be looked at closely for a lynch.

If you're still that pissed off after like a week since the first comment, it's not my problem, and NORMALLY I wouldn't bring up you replacing out and pressuring you because of it, but when you try and use it as a town-tell (as well as RBD and Azusa, who essentially served as your mouthpieces) it's gotta be treated with a certain degree of criticism and becomes fair game. If that makes you mad, so be it; I haven't done anything that I think warrants an apology.

Nice point about the SK-Vig distinction except that Yoshi made the distinction first. He also assumes that RBD was shot by Vig/SK rather than Inte. You know something we don't Yoshi?

Nope, I just wanted someone to catcj that. That gives me a town tell on you now. A reverse gambit, if you will.

We shouldn't massclaim until everyone has had a chance to post.

[DoomYoshi]

Um, Azusa and Nacho haven't even posted yet today.

Also, I don't see we have much to gain by massclaiming today. So far, only information we have: The setup is at least BBMDTTT, or BBMDxxT. Not enough information to actually help us by massclaiming yet.

[DoomYoshi]

Because if it is BBMDTT, the SK can claim vanilla and 2 or 3 of the 3 mafia can claim whatever power roles add 2 letters (1-shot doc and a mason pair works, for example).

Finally, if we massclaim, don't do it all willy-nilly. Seilkops will generate a random list of names, and we will go by that.

VOTE: Bitmap

[DoomYoshi]

I am open to mass claiming. I'd want to see a really good explanation of how we are doing it though, and a general confirmation from everyone. Or at least 75% of the players to agree.

Did you read why I wrote massclaiming is a bad idea?

The general idea behind the massclaim is that you keep the power roles alive and lynch the vanillas. Since the mafia can so easily claim powerroles at this point, massclaiming doesn't help us at all.

[DoomYoshi]

@mod: can one of our fallen brethren replace Applejack? I wouldn't will reading this game from the beginning upon anyone.

[DoomYoshi]

Ok, so that is how a massclaim works. What in anything that RBD or AJ said implies that now is the right time to massclaim?

[DoomYoshi]

[Removed at DoomYoshi's request.] ~yabb

[DoomYoshi]

Bitmap, I was saying we shouldn't massclaim today. Why would you include a quote saying that we shouldn't massclaim today as evidence that we should?

That doesn't make any sense.

[DoomYoshi]

He was clear. Claiming on D3 is probably best is what he said. The reasons for that I already articulated. We just have to wait until a point when the mafia can no longer safely claim powerroles, and then we lynch vanillas.

So, basically, you quoted his post, but you have no idea what you are actually quoting, and you are just trolling me/spamming the thread. Keeping my vote where it is.

[DoomYoshi]

What do you mean by game throw?

[DoomYoshi]

UNVOTE: VOTE: solidstate

[DoomYoshi]

Pretty good defense there solidstate. However, the 4 of us (solid, doom, mcstab and bitmap) I now have a town read on. None of these are rock-solid reads, obviously.

Now, I don't particularly follow the nacho case. But it is the only non-lurking player I don't have a town read on.
(I have a town read on Asuza, in case you are wondering). Which makes my scumteam prediction: Carto, Nacho and 1 or 2 of (applejack, zabriel).

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Nacho

@solid: you aren't going to win any points trying to discredit mcstab. I suggest you stop that immediately, or else my town read on you is gone.
@mcstab: Can you get over your inclination to argue and realize that solid, while argumentative, is not actually scummy right now?

If you two can stop fighting, we can work our way through the scummies. And bitmap/azusa can come along too, but I don't care.

[DoomYoshi]

Hey guys. It isn't fair to assume randomly distributed numbers. I know that's what the setup calls for, but go take a gander at the stats on C9 games if you think mods randomize properly. It isn't actually a fair assumption. Any distribution that you come up with will assume that, so the distributions are wrong. The only assumption I can make, validly, is that there is a chance, p, of any possibility. Since I don't know any p, I can't make any distribution at all.

That Nacho is again trying to push massclaim today proves something. I'm not sure what though.

Good point on the roleblocker; we don't want the tier 1 (or tier 3) roleblocker to claim yet, though.

[DoomYoshi]

I feel like if McStab is scum he's partnered with DoomYoshi.

[DoomYoshi]

Carto, ultimatums with SKs don't work. Don't ever bring that up again.

Solid, if I told you why Bitmap was town, it would compromise town's position. Just trust me for now, and drop it. After massclaim, if I am still alive, I will explain.

Carto, as solid explained, your assumptions are not completely founded. Remember there can be a huge gap between what is perceived, and what is known.

However, you just scumslipped.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: carto

Only mafia would 100% believe a town claim, because they know town has no reason to lie.

[DoomYoshi]

Ok, I am considering policy lynch on McStab now.

[DoomYoshi]

Yeah! I mean, what?

I voted you because you were the easiest to get a feel for. But then I remembered the last game we played together and how it's just kind of easy to want to lynch you. It's gotten some interesting stuff out of the McStab/Solidstate fight too. Coincidental stuff, but interesting stuff. One of the pair is probably scum.

So you don't believe McStab's claim?

[DoomYoshi]

To those who voted Applejack yesterday: how do you feel about if we lynched him now?

I'm not advocating this lynch happen, I just want a feel for the atmosphere, and to keep discussion going. I am leery about joining back with a solidstate wagon, because I did get a fairly significant town read on him. I disagree specifically with zabriel, as I do feel like mcstab and solid should just stop and that I want to stab my eyes out. Furthermore, if we expose too many more power roles, we will be close to massclaiming as it is. So we need to beware of pushing too many different wagons. Solid isn't the greatest choice. Zabriel is causing some raised eyebrows.

@zabriel and bitmap: do you have alts?

@zabriel: please give me quotes on why you feel that McStab and I are scumbuddies together.

[DoomYoshi]

I fail to see the relevance of the alt question.

Pretty sure what happened: I protected seilkops, McStab protected me.

You kind of threw McStab a line here based on nothing at all. There wasn't any reason to think that McStab protected you in any way since we had two kills last night. Even if he had it wouldn't have mattered since you weren't a target last night. I guess that could be stretched to say scum assumed one shot-doc and went for somebody else, but the phrasing bothers me the more I think about it.

That stretch is exactly what I am implying.

The alt question is because I wanted to know whether to treat you like a noob or an experienced player. Since you refuse to answer, I will assume experienced player. An experienced player would only make an accusation as ridiculous as this if it was part of a grand scheme.

Anybody paying attention knows that no matter what, McStab and I aren't on the same scumteam.

If we were why would he push me to claim and then brag about it, followed by me pushing him to claim?

It's clear you aren't reading the game and are a liability to town.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: zabriel

[DoomYoshi]

I am not sure what we can do with this few people in the discussion.

[DoomYoshi]

I extend my question to everyone who thinks I am scum.

Two reasons:
Process of elimination
Perception of Intent

I already explained that I have townreads on most everyone else.
I also haven't perceived you to be doing any real scumhunting, or to have town's best interests in mind. In fact, this last question showed survivalism. I think you are the SK. This sucks because mafia can easily hop aboard your wagon.

meh.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: carto

[DoomYoshi]

Two Reasons

Process of Elimination; I can't think of anyone who would be his scum partner
Gut feeling, based on his recent posts.

[DoomYoshi]

Guess I should clarify that a bit.

His recent "why do you think I am scummy" post I am reading as an attempt to bring players into a battle of rhetoric. That used to be my scumslip, so I am extra keen on it. By forcing players to give reasons, he is giving himself a way to defend and/or twist words without ever addressing the points - mainly his lack of town motivation.

[DoomYoshi]

Zabriel: I'll assume that since you joined in June, you have compiled exhaustive stats proving that arguing over specific factions is a scum tell.

Please provide some evidence of these stats though, just so I can rest my mind.

Also, a FUCKING RETARD VIG or an SK would have shot last night. Either way, we kill them. If it is a vig, we also jump through the screen to punch them in the throat repeatedly in RL, and then kill their children and/or other family members. Then we call a nuclear strike on their hometown, since clearly the T Virus has infested and turned everyone's mind into putty.

I'm not even kidding, if you bring up the chance that it is a vig again, I will bulldog you.

[DoomYoshi]

Those tells are from 2010. Nice try

[DoomYoshi]

Ok, I didn't post that vig shooting N1 is anti-town on D1. I didn't need to because AJ already covered the topic pretty well. Shooting N1 is what distinguishes SKs from a vig. Shooting N1 is usually an anti-town approach. If it was a vig, then yabbaguy would have modkilled them for playing against factional victory conditions.

You have already said you would shoot RBD, so I don't need to answer that question.
I know it isn't a vig because there hasn't been a modkill.

[DoomYoshi]

It should be modkillable. Shooting N1 except in extreme cases is anti-town. You are not allowed to play against your win condition. I don't see why it would cause an uproar. After this game is done, I will bring it up in GD. I don't think we need to ask yabbaguy. All I want is that if that there is a vig that shot, they realize how dumb it was/is. If vigs shoot every night, there is no way to distinguish SK and vig, and so they have to die either way.

Maybe I am crazy, but when there were lots of discussions D1 about why shooting as a vig is bad in all cases, let alone N1, I can't imagine how the possibility even arose.

[DoomYoshi]

Not unvoting, especially now.

For the reasons I already explained.

Furthermore: since carto has started insulting, even if he is a brain-dead vig, I expect him to carry out grudge kills (which I also think should be modkillable).

[DoomYoshi]

Not time for a massclaim. I called him SK, accusing him of killing RBD. Then he agreed that he is anti-town and that he killed RBD. Not a town PR.

Anyways, why did you kill RBD carto? Nothing he did was scummy.

[DoomYoshi]

Rainbow, it is an accumulation of many oddities I dislike about your play. I will explain tomorrow hopefully.

Your arrogant post was the straw that broke the camel's back.

I wish I could play as badly as some of you and fall back on a safe power role claim to make me townie.

That quote from 955 is very arrogant.

I am also confused by why you have not explained RBD's accumulation. Finally, I am confused by you would promise to explain when you knew you would kill RBD.

[DoomYoshi]

I personally hate DoomYoshi's play

In this game, or in general?

[DoomYoshi]

Sigh. UNVOTE:

You are still totally wrong about massclaim. GLaDOS is scum for wanting massclaim. Possibly Bitmap as well, I can't tell if bitmap is really sly or really dumb.

Carto: why did you claim at all? That was ridiculous.

[DoomYoshi]

I do not thik Zab is SK? I said his conclusion of jumping to me being SK is interesting as not everyone had posted yet. It bleeds prior knowledge. I think Zab is Mafia.

If zab has prior knowledge of the mafia NK, it would mean that the mafia killed inte. Do you think they did?

[DoomYoshi]

Oh shit, I learned something awesome. Ooohhhh town got this in the bag imo if my calculations are correct. If they are correct, then I'll have figured out all the scum by the end of massclaim today.

Assuming all of the claims are true we know the following,

DMBB + TTT + ?? + SK + Scum + Scum + Scum = 13 players

Now we have 10 players alive since the 3 townies are dead so subtract the 3 Ts.

DMBB + ?? + SK + Scum + Scum + Scum = 10 players

If my intuition is correct, I think scum just pidgeon-holed themselves to a really bad situation.

Quick, seikops get in here and lets start this popcorn. Lynch all liars is in effect.

The letter T does not correspond to VTs. I have no idea what you think you proved here.

[DoomYoshi]

Oh shit, I learned something awesome. Ooohhhh town got this in the bag imo if my calculations are correct. If they are correct, then I'll have figured out all the scum by the end of massclaim today.

Assuming all of the claims are true we know the following,

DMBB + TTT + ?? + SK + Scum + Scum + Scum = 13 players

Now we have 10 players alive since the 3 townies are dead so subtract the 3 Ts.

DMBB + ?? + SK + Scum + Scum + Scum = 10 players

If my intuition is correct, I think scum just pidgeon-holed themselves to a really bad situation.

Quick, seikops get in here and lets start this popcorn. Lynch all liars is in effect.

The letter T does not correspond

Directly

to VTs. I have no idea what you think you proved here.

EBWOP: I mean, you can have WMBBBBB and still have 3 VTs. We know nothing of the setup.

[DoomYoshi]

doom stop talking.

Before I do, you need to explain what the hell you are talking about and why it works. You are just putting out a bunch of random numbers based on nothing.

Let me try:

MMMMMMMMBBBBBPPPPPTTTTT + 3 Dead M means I can figure out town by the end of today.

It doesn't make any sense.

[DoomYoshi]

Unless Bitmap and Nacho are both roleblockers, which is outlandish.

[DoomYoshi]

Ok, I get that. So 1 townie claims roleblocker, 2 townies claim VT then we are left with the 3 mafia to claim. They can claim either VT or roleblocker. Hell, 2 could claim roleblocker.

Then, who do we lynch? The roleblockers? Or the VTs?

[DoomYoshi]

Or what if McStab and I are lying, and everyone else claims VT, who do we lynch next?

[DoomYoshi]

You've gotta be masoned with someone. But I'm not actually a doctor, so the plan doesn't work. Sorry, tried to textbook VT this time. Textbook doesn't work with everyone all claim-happy.

[DoomYoshi]

Yes, I do believe there is an SK and I 100% believe it to be carto.

However, if a zab lynch is coming today, I will go for that, too.

[DoomYoshi]

Yea, seriously. I hoped I would take a bullet for seilkops last night. I was hoping to push it to tonight, until now.

[DoomYoshi]

Anyways, we've gone this far, so we pretty much have to massclaim.

[DoomYoshi]

Other good news is that we have great scum leads.

[DoomYoshi]

If I was a scum fakeclaiming doc, I had no reason to unclaim, since I was on the cleared side of the board. So there is no scum motivation for me to do this latest act. Therefore, you are only lynching me based on policy.

That is all I have to say for today.

[DoomYoshi]

You think a scumteam wouldn't have discussed claims by now? Clearly, I didn't want a massclaim because a) it wouldn't help town find scum yet and b) my gambit wouldn't work and seilkops would be dead a day earlier.

[DoomYoshi]

... Processing ...

1.)

DoomYoshi, please reconcile your claim retraction with the following:

... town has no reason to lie …

A deliberate attempt to trick mafia into believing my claim.

2.)

And furthermore, please reconcile your public push for Cartographer (once-claimed Vigilante) being modkilled for claiming to shoot Rainbowdash on Night One when you are

now

claiming to have lied about your

claim

on Day One?

If you are Town your play is beyond disgraceful. Which is particularly distasteful since as you claimed, you apologized for playing so awful up to [that] point. If anything, if you are Town, your play got even worse from that point. The temptation to vote you on principle is very high.

I am not sure these 2 points need reconciliation. What is disgraceful about this? Since when is trying to protect an innocent child a bad thing?

Also, why is everyone saying I shouldn't be around at LYLO? This wasn't spur of the moment. This was a deliberate, thought-out plan. It sucks that it backfired, but I am not sure why the mafia didn't shoot me. The only guess I have, I posted earlier in the day.

[DoomYoshi]

So, for the townies here, you are just responding to the emotional level of being tricked. A VTs job is to die. I wanted to die on my own terms, at night, but I see you are going to push my lynch anyways. We already know who the scum are, we have the same amount of information that we had before. We know that seilkops, the 2 masons, the roleblockers and myself are town. We just don't know if there are 3 scum left or 4.
Forcing me to retract my claim wasn't a good thing, GlaDOS. Also, I understand why people like LaL, I just don't follow that philosophy anymore. Just remember that as scum, I had no reason to retract my claim when I did.
Deception is what I do - its why I play this game. You should realize that now I am being honest, and we continue to lynch who we KNOW is scum (or at least has a 3/4 chance to be scum).

If you kill me now, we will end up with 4 scum and 3 town tomorrow (assuming SK and mafia both kill town and there is no crosskill). While this isn't 100% a loss, it could be nasty.

[DoomYoshi]

@DY: You didn't die at night. You didn't come out and say you were really a VT first thing Day Two, which is really the only way you could salvage your "gambit". You instead bring it up only when massclaim comes around and you risk getting caught. We don't know your alignment or role, we don't know Carto's role, so massclaim makes far less sense, particularly when it seems to be a not serious thing.

LaL is necessary, particularly when the lie would be EXACTLY what scum would do. Carto's lie isn't quite so bad, because he didn't lie when scum would normally lie, he picked a weird lie, and he retracted it instantly. It's still bad and weird and a bit scummy, but yours is textbook scum move.

I wouldn't have been outed unless there was another town PR that got "caught". Even then, I wouldn't have been outed until after he was hammered.

Yes, my defense is WIFOMy and AtEy. But if you wash the bad taste out of your mouth after being tricked, we can still move forward with today.

[DoomYoshi]

RBD specifically says that PRs should not claim VT. Nothing about the other way around.

[DoomYoshi]

6.)

DoomYoshi, why did you assume you were protected on Night One?

6) Addressed in 910.

[DoomYoshi]

WARNING: INCOMING SCUMMY MOVE

VOTE: zabriel

There we go, hopping onto the nearest counterwagon.

Anyways, I think McStab is just bulldogging at this point. DDD is straight up lying (it doesn't make sense coming from a scum perspective unless you think my plan was to start a giant WIFOM wheel). Solidstate is follow-along scum? Not sure how I stand on solid right now. I could still be persuaded either way.

Carto, I would like you to elaborate on the following post:

I have a problem with Rainbow's recent post detaling McStab's demise or possible plan of actions. First, is that not the move that McStab did to Apple? Predicting her vote based on previous posts and play? Second, even if there is a distinction (which I doubt) why would you detail the logic behind McStab's alignment based on deaths tonight?

I am not going to elaborate the second until after Rainbow posts.

RBD won't have a chance to post, so you may as well clarify what you were going for here.

[DoomYoshi]

(it doesn't make sense coming from a scum perspective unless you think my plan was to start a giant WIFOM wheel).

"hey, I'm gonna be caught in the PR claims, so I'm pretty fucked for today.
oh wait, Cartographer just got away with rescinding a claim. Maybe I will too!"

I don't even know if you're scum or not yet, but I absolutely hate how you act like everyone calling you scum are completely out of line. It's Umbrage scumtactics 101, pretty much.

I understand where they are coming from. You are the one that brought up that having 3 or 4 Ts is statistically normal though. How can you now say I would be caught in PR claims, thinking they are unlikely?

Also, if you look at the timing a bit closer, I was still pushing a lynch on carto, so I wouldn't describe him as having "just got away" with anything.

I would call those both misreps, but I am in enough hot water as it is, so I don't feel like pissing people off.

[DoomYoshi]

(it doesn't make sense coming from a scum perspective unless you think my plan was to start a giant WIFOM wheel).

"hey, I'm gonna be caught in the PR claims, so I'm pretty fucked for today.
oh wait, Cartographer just got away with rescinding a claim. Maybe I will too!"

I don't even know if you're scum or not yet, but I absolutely hate how you act like everyone calling you scum are completely out of line. It's Umbrage scumtactics 101, pretty much.

I understand where they are coming from. However, zab listed DDD and solid as scummies, and my townread on solid evaporated almost as soon as I posted it (I did warn him about that FTR). I am not saying that players are wrong for being on my lynch; just that the WRONG (read:scum) players are on my list.

You are the one that brought up that having 3 or 4 Ts is statistically normal though. How can you now say I would be caught in PR claims, thinking they are unlikely?

Also, if you look at the timing a bit closer, I was still pushing a lynch on carto, so I wouldn't describe him as having "just got away" with anything.

I would call those both misreps, but I am in enough hot water as it is, so I don't feel like pissing people off.

EBWOP

[DoomYoshi]

Hmm. 24 hours and only 3 other players posted.

[DoomYoshi]

You two are fucking turds. Seriously. Why would I throw myself into the spotlight again after I was cleared from a scum perspective? On the off chance that a massclaim might reveal I am lying?

[DoomYoshi]

Since DDD is scum, I don't care to convince him.

McStab: you said

So yeah, I don't think we should massclaim, and I think we should lynch DY on principle of LaL and because it has clear scum motivations. He claimed T1 doc, easiest fakeable scum claim, once he got put under some pressure; this was to avoid the rope Day One. Night One he survived for some reason, even though (apparently; I suppose a Vig/SK/Mafia setup would have three kills) two kills still happened. That means that unless it's a Vig/SK/Mafia setup, DY didn't get shot at, nor did he absorb a Seilkops-directed shot.

Vote: DoomYoshi

Now, first off there are the internal problems with your argument. I didn't get shot at. This is obvious. My theory is that I didn't get shot at because mafia probably thought that you were a 1-shot doc and didn't want take what is less than 50/50 chance. They knew that there was already a doctor (unless they realized I was lying, but nobody did). At that point we knew it was MPxxxxx. So what is more likely: MPPxxxx or MPBBxxx? Clearly, the mafia shooting me had a lower chance of success. So, painting me as scum because I wasn't shot at doesn't work.

Second, the external problems:

My case on DoomYoshi was weak

If your case was weak, and I knew that, then I wasn't under pressure. I could've got away without claiming. My point is that my claim was intentional, once it was revealed we had an IC. It wasn't the result of your laughable case.

[DoomYoshi]

First, DoomYoshi fakeclaiming Doc was bad, but it really had some opportunity to it when he made it Day One. I'm not advocating it, but if I hadn't doubted his claim personally (me thinking he could be SK) I would easily have claimed One Shot Doc and he could've exposed me for the fake I am.

I was praying for that actually.

Good game, eventually I will get good enough to hang you on day 1 when you are obvscum. I can't believe I wasn't even able to push a solidstate wagon either.

Why do you want to screw me bitmap?