Open 437: Town of Semi-Nightless Plots (Game Over)

[Mr.K]

I just woke up so I'm not even trying to write a proper post yet. Should have time to reread and post later today. But yeah, I don't think seilkops should be in l-1 yet.

[Mr.K]

Alright, unfortunately my read and post ended up happening quite late so I'm already quite tired. Here we go anyway!

funkybike1 - very few posts and appeared quite soon after greygnarl mentioned his name. Lurking?
greygnarl - seems mostly town
seilkops - probably town. I think his slip in the beginning wasn't as significant as people made it to be and then he got somewhat confused under pressure (which town can do as well). Don't see him as scum.
Voidedmafia - seems alright - will reread his posts... day after tomorrow, I guess. I'm not sure I see the case(s) against him but I'm tired and thus might not be at my best.
ProsecutorGodot - seems town
Cheery Dog - might be scum but he seemed to misunderstand some things seilkops said and I'm not sure if he understood what he misunderstood. So yeah, could all be just a mistake as well. The fact that he put seilkops in l-1 with a pretty poor case is worrysome, though.
andrew94 - not much content but the little seems town.
Sisterman - aggressive enough that he's probably town. Hah! Kidding! But yeah, I don't see anything about him scummy at this point.
TeChNoWC - seems town

Will be quite busy tomorrow. Might have time for some short posts or whatnot but not sure if even that!

[Mr.K]

K who is scum?

funkybike1 and/or Cheery Dog. Have to re-read Voidedmafia still, though.

[Mr.K]

Actually... why not VOTE: funkybike1

[Mr.K]

Don't see the case against Voidedmafia.

Don't see the connection between TeChNoWC and ProsecutorGodot and don't see either of the two as scum.

My vote stays, especially after how funkybike1 hopped onto the TeChNoWC wagon without providing any reasons for it.

[Mr.K]

I'm here, just haven't really seen much if anything worth commenting. Also, I just woke up again so I'll post later.

[Mr.K]

Bullshit.

I don't generally consider empty oneliners such as this worth commenting. Same with people just trying to be witty and/or sarcastic and/or provocative and/or hostile. If this bickering has some level of information value, it might be another matter but in this case it has not changed my opinion in any way and because I personally try to not engage in this kind of a conversation style, I've rather avoided commenting. So yeah, if you want me to comment on something you think I should comment on, do ask.

I do agree with you that Funky has plenty of explaining to do but he doesn't really seem to be interested in doing that.

[Mr.K]

Unless you meant that me just waking up was bullshit... guess you can bullshit that however you want.

[Mr.K]

Mr. K, it is complete and utter bullshit that you can't find anything to comment about. What, no comments about Hiraki? About Funky being at L-1? I find that hard to believe.

Hiraki makes long posts while says very little. He doesn't seem like a very likable person and is probably quite young. So yeah, I didn't have much to say about him at the point of my posting. No read either way, really (I'm sure Techno will appreciate my diplomacy again:P). I don't agree with his case against seilkops, though, and I don't get why he wants to push his non-existent seilkops-wagon, though, when he already said he thinks one of the two existent wagons is scum.

Funky at L-1? Well, that's where he's supposed to be. Maybe even lynched because, like I said, I don't really expect him to even try to defend himself but I'm a patient man and don't mind waiting. Maybe he even proves me wrong!

[Mr.K]

Where the hell is funky anyway?

[Mr.K]

Lo and behold...

Goodposting from Funky (well, at least for him). Still feel inclined to lynch him but GG's outburst slightly unnerves me.

I have to admit I had almost the same reaction when I saw funky's post because it was exactly the kind I was expecting to see. In fact, he did exactly what I would have done in his shoes if I was scum: first post something completely useless once again and a bit later throw us a bone by actually posting a little bit (but not too much) of content as well. Of course, this doesn't prove that he's scum but it's certainly enough for me to keep my vote.

Hiraki worries me a bit. He tries to make a big deal of himself by posting seemingly engaging crap but hasn't really made a single actually useful post so far. Based on his reply to my guess that he's rather young, he probably

is

quite young (I have no idea what the average age among the players here is, though), which could explain his behaviour, but at times he seems like he's doing it on purpose and trying it a bit too hard (who says "you can fuck off with your arrogant cuntness"? what does it even mean?) which actually

could

be a scum tactic to make him appear an aggressive town. Also, his unwillingness to jump off a wagon he never really explained and the way he keeps on buying himself time a few days before deadline makes this package somewhat alarming.

[Mr.K]

@seilkops
The useless post would be consistent with his earlier play and might make people think that if he's doing it so close to a lynch, he might be town after all. Then after reconsidering the situation he would give in a little bit and come out of his way to post something a bit more useful. Maybe my mindset is wrong but I really can't see an actual town doing this unless he really didn't care about playing anymore.

[Mr.K]

are you all fucking stupid

i do not think techno is scum

I don't know what I can do to explain it easier

fucking read my posts

Earlier you said either Techno or Funky is scum. Why are you not voting Funky who actually has a chance to be lynched today?

[Mr.K]

So you think Techno and Funky are town. Apart from your lonely crusade on Seil, do you have

any

other reads?

[Mr.K]

(and that was for Hiraki, of course)

[Mr.K]

I don't see a problem with only reading one scum right now

The problem with that is that it makes Hiraki

completely

useless today. He's posting empty posts, tunneling an empty target and with that basically gets a free pass from you today. Furthermore, I don't think it's really even possible to not have

any

other suspicions or theories at the moment. The fact that he's putting so much effort in cursing and mocking people instead of sharing those theories does not speak well for him.

[Mr.K]

VOTE: Hiraki

[Mr.K]

VOTE: Hiraki

Why?

I believe I already explained most of my thoughts on Day 1. After that Hiraki decided to abandon his only scum read and vote Techno pretty much out of nowhere. I find that's more scum than town.

[Mr.K]

I don't know about him, but I think I will feel that way

VOTE: hirkai

Why?

Same reason why I took funky off L-1 for a bit during Day 1, that post (315) just rekindled the flame I had for wanting a Hiraki lynch.

You're not voting for him just because he has PMS, are you?

[Mr.K]

Hiraki - Is it just me or has his play changed for the Day 2? No more loud and aggressive posts. Almost seems like hiding. Of course he is not making a case or defending himself but considering he didn't post much content during Day 1 either, this is not really anything new. Still seems he's laying low and hoping the Techno lynch goes through.

seilkops - hard to get a read. He seems like he's learning something but cannot say whether it's town or scum.

CES - still probably town.

I guess it's pretty clear when I look again. Still think Voided is pretty scummy. l might have a whole new case on him but will save it for after we lynch Tech.

Anticipating a townflip here on my part?

This bothered me as well. The funny thing is that the whole post seems kind of suspicious and stands out from the remaining posts by the same person. The rest of the posts are very coherent and while I would not stamp him as a definite town, I don't think he seems scummy either. Except for the quoted post.

I do realize that I didn't list everyone but as the rest are pretty much null reads at the moment, I didn't see the point.

I'll be somewhat V/LA until Saturday.

Will probablyhopefully have some time at some points but not sure. Also, expecting a hangover for Saturday so probably no post until the evening then

[Mr.K]

Yeah, I'm here. No time to read anything, though. Maybe this evening, maybe not!

[Mr.K]

Tech had five votes on him, andrew now has two and, by the sounds of it, probably won't have many more either. In what way does this switch make any sense? Also, why are you in such a hurry lynching people? Your priority should be lynching scum, not lynching whoever just to get on with the game.

[Mr.K]

Also, why would you vote andrew rather than Voided?

[Mr.K]

He doesn't even that on andrew. I would also like him to answer the questions himself.

[Mr.K]

I prefer keeping my vote on the person I think is scum rather than throwing it around randomly. Also, if you care to have a look at my previous comment, it contained no question (and neither does this one, actually). I hope you're enjoying!

[Mr.K]

At first I didn't like Hiraki's playstyle but figured that he's so aggressive that he's probably town.

When I started realizing that he's actually not really posting any content (something that was first quite well hidden behind the walls of cursing and whatever crap he posted) I started thinking he might be scum. This would be around the post #243 where I also explain it a bit further. Day 2 - especially the beginning of it - only strengthened my suspicion and thus I consider him the most likely scum.

greygnarl still hasn't shared us his reasons for why he prefers to lynch townies quickly rather than scum slowly. I would also be very interested in hearing why he thinks the game is more enjoyable without questions.

[Mr.K]

I don't believe this game is won by everybody convincing everybody why they should vote who

they

think is scum. I believe in cooperation and I realize people - me included - make mistakes. Thus the best bet is to lynch democratically and hope the majority of the voters are mostly not making a mistake.

My vote is on the person I think most likely to be the scum and I don't see how tech would be one pretty much at all. But maybe everyone else is smarter than me and they're about to lynch the right person, how would I know? If I want something clarified, I will ask and I presume people generally do that to me as well (like Cheery just did).

Doubt you'll ever find me trying to make people vote anyone. Asking why they're not doing it, sure, but that's a whole different matter already.

[Mr.K]

Why the hell Voidedmafia still hasn't explained his case (except by saying that his case is CES's case) is starting to look pretty damn suspicious.

@seilkops:
I've only briefly gone through two of his games (one town, one scum) and based on those he seemed to provide more content indeed as town. But I'm not a fan of meta (maybe I'll become more after more experience but I actually hope not because I think it's a good way to get wrong reads) so I don't really put any emphasis on that. Just wanted to see if he actually ever posts any content

[Mr.K]

VOTE: Voidedmafia

You're just stalling.

[Mr.K]

@Cheery:
So do you think lacking in the analysis department makes one scum or are you maybe voting a bad townie?

[Mr.K]

Well, I guess I was the only one who thought he was town at that point since the others don't really say they think Seilk is town.

I don't know about you but if I don't say whether I think someone is scum or town, in the beginning of the game I very much presume they're PROBABLY town. Cause that's how the odds are, you know

As for your explanation, I guess I'm somewhat satisfied but not completely. The main beef I have with it is that your (or is it CES's? whatever) whole scenario presumes that townies don't make mistakes. I mean... maybe he 1. misread seilk and 2. joined a wagon potentially heading to mislynch (he wasn't the only one on that wagon either) - I don't see either of these two makes him

scum

. Especially as early as it happened. I also don't quite get the point 3, probably for the reasons Tech just described.

I also still don't get your context-context-context when you say your case is CES's case and he already said his case doesn't rely on context. Of course, you already basically said that you're not sure what you meant with "context" so I guess we'll just have to take your word or not.

And yes, I did read your signature but did not know what the fuck PMC is. Since a quick google search did not tell me that either, I figured I'll rather have breakfast and concluded that almost 12h should be enough for "after work". Seems I was wrong.

[Mr.K]

Just a quick reply since I'm heading out for the night.

But no one but me actually outright SAID that Seilk was town, and I didn't get any such implications from you post at the time.

No, in the post you mentioned I did not outright say he's town. It was more like a "wait, he does not seem as scummy as you seem to think" post that I made in a hurry without having the time to read or comment properly. And yeah, you're right in the sense that the people who actually voted for him PROBABLY thought that he's scum. As for the others... well, like I said, during the first day the odds are pretty damn straightforward so I don't think "he didn't say he's town" = "he thinks he's scum" works at all.

1. If that is true, then what does that make me, the only person at the time who "read Seilk correctly"?
2. Why wouldn't this make him scum? By your own wording that SHOULD make him scum.

1. I don't really get your question. It doesn't necessarily make you anything just like it didn't necessarily make anyone else anything either.
2. Like I said, he wasn't alone in his bandwagon and they can't be all scum. Thus joining the bandwagon doesn't make anyone scum.

[Mr.K]

As for your explanation, I guess I'm somewhat satisfied but not completely. The main beef I have with it is that your (or is it CES's? whatever) whole scenario presumes that townies don't make mistakes. I mean... maybe he 1. misread seilk and 2. joined a wagon potentially heading to mislynch (he wasn't the only one on that wagon either) - I don't see either of these two makes him scum. Especially as early as it happened. I also don't quite get the point 3, probably for the reasons Tech just described.

A competent scumbag can play a lot like a townie who happens to make some unfortunate mistakes that end up being pro-scum. Sure, there's a chance I'm wrong but looking at what happened then and what's happened since I feel pretty good about a Technolynch. As for point 3), what it comes down to that in terms of deliberate actions scum generally play a lot more like a townie that happens to make some pro-scum mistakes than like a cartoonish villain making stuff up left and right.

While this makes perfect sense (of course a competent scum plays a lot like a town) and all, I presume you still got my point. Which was basically... well, that I don't agree with your case I think it looks artifically built, so to say.

Just so everyone knows, the deadline today seems to be like 3:30am my time so I am

not

going to see this day through. With a busy week such as this, it's hard to say when I'll have my last look (=when I literally start falling asleep) and leave my vote but probably at least two hours before the deadline. Which I realize can be quite problematic with a situation like this where we might have to compromise in the end. But that's how it is.

[Mr.K]

I won't have time to look him over, but I think Mr.K (correct me if I'm wrong) made a post indicating that PGodot should be given another look, and I tend to agree (if only becasue I'll need to if I live to D3)

Don't think that was me.

Sure hope Seilk and Hiraki will not forget the deadline...

[Mr.K]

Don't expect anything revolutionary, just expect a catch-up.

All we need is a Technovote.

I can deal.

Unvote, Vote: Techno

Of course, let me finish before someone hammers.

Wouldn't be nice if I died at night

at all

Well, Techno is at 4 votes so it's not possible to hammer him and if you change your mind, you don't lose anything if Seilk hammers Voided.

Just saying, though! Not like I mind you finishing your catch-up.

[Mr.K]

@CES:
Do you think no-lynch is acceptable? Generally speaking.

[Mr.K]

So you think I'm scum regardless of Tech's alignment or what?

[Mr.K]

Alright, I believe I'll head to bed now. Will be kind of surprised if I'll see a lynch today since, based on his earlier posts, seilkops is most likely going to vote for Techno, thus ending in a tie.

[Mr.K]

...and that unvote pretty much sealed it. Night night!

[Mr.K]

I am extremely hung over so excuse my potential stupidity but if we presume that PG is scum, does his unvote make any sense unless Tech is scum as well? Surely scum would have preferred a mislynch over a no-lynch.

[Mr.K]

Voided don't hammer. We might be able to get a few scumtells out of people before it goes through. Mr. K will do it anyway once he's on. He's been sheeping around all of D2.

@Techno CES makes good sense. With you at L-2 and sheep still running around all over the place your lynch was very feasible. You need to get your head back on your shoulders. While your case on Voided is very plausible, you're starting to lash out at anyone whoa attacks you.

Again one of these. It's like there's two people playing as greygnarl. Often he makes sense and then out of the blue he throws these bizarre ideas. Whereas my compromise towards the end of D2 could perhaps be stamped as sheeping if you really want to twist it some, could you care to explain who and how was I sheeping before my vote on Voided?

Also, a guy who has literally voted almost everyone in the game is accusing Tech for lashing anyone who attacks him (which he didn't even do) is... well, somewhat ironic to say the least.

Aaaand, why would you prefer me hamming over Voided doing it?

As for PG's behaviour at the end of the day... it was pretty damn anti-town, no question about it. But was it scummy? I've been trying to think this over and over again and it's really hard to say.

Obviously the unvote was stupid no matter which alignment he is and will probably get him lynched today. If he's scum, wouldn't he have preferred a mislynch rather than attract this kind of attention on himself? Heck, he didn't even have to hammer, he could have just left his vote where it was and see what happens. If he's town, it would just be a stupid hasty decision. Like I said, stupid and anti-town in either case but I still don't see how it's

scummy

. On the other hand, some people seem to be very set on that so anyone care to explain it more thoroughly?

[Mr.K]

The only thing that did make sense in gg's post was that yes, CES's explanation does make sense. Seilkops hadn't voted at the L-2 and I would have expected him to 1. vote and 2. vote tech. PG's unvote was in no way expected and had I been around at deadline, I would have hammered to avoid the no lynch. The only problem with that was that I was

not

around at deadline and had said so earlier as well. So yeah, CES really should have checked it

[Mr.K]

Yeah, I meant the whole unvoting incident. Point being that I see many people changing their opinion based on that event alone.

As for the reasons you listed, I'm not ignoring them and I agree partly at least. But I also think that some of those (for example, the rushing of the Funky-lynch) could equally be just hasty play as town as well. Of course, from here we get to the big question: how much anti-town play should be tolerated before it's scummy? I don't have an answer for that I am inclined to agree that an incoherent play like this is starting to smell fishy.

BUT, I still would want to know if the very end of D2 is somehow blatantly scummy (as opposed to stupid and anti-town) to the people who changed their mind and, if so, why?

[Mr.K]

What do you mean by "people who changed their mind", K?

In all the simplicity: at the end of Day 2, no-one was voting PG. Now five people is and one wants to hammer. In between basically nothing else happened than the unvote and the strange vote back on Tech. Now, I'm not meaning to undermine the unvote in any way, I just think it's equally stupid behaviour no matter which alignment PG is and don't think it's necessarily a scum sign. Apparently six people disagree with me (because they changed from not voting to voting based on this) and thus I'm thinking I must be missing something here. Or was it just that the unvote and the vote back on Tech was the final straw that made everyone think "ok, he's been anti-town enough - he must be scum"?

(for clarity, you might want to use Mr.K. Not to feed my ego but to make sure I don't think of K as an "ok" or something, which I suppose might happen)

[Mr.K]

Alright, I'll throw this back here once more.

Do you people seriously not find Hiraki scummy? First he was tunneling seilk without a case, then he suddenly "left the thought to die as incorrect" when no-one wanted to lynch seilk. In the same message he said that I and Tech need to die because we are impatient. He also said Godot could be scum, jumping from one lonely scum-read (seilk) to a potential THREE scums. And he had already specifically said he does not think Tech is scum. And let's still not forget how he just dropped his crazy seilk-push out of nowhere.

I also find it interesting how he didn't answer my question about whether I'm scum no matter what Tech turns out to be. I suspect this might be because he wanted to let Tech die so he could start with me with an empty table.

He's just throwing around some vague hints and voting without any pattern or reason. Is this seriously not suspicious to you?

[Mr.K]

are you all fucking stupid

i do not think techno is scum

I don't know what I can do to explain it easier

fucking read my posts

I have NOT EVER said that I don't believe Tech is scum, so thanks for lying when my ISO is right there.

This is like dealing with a little kid who really doesn't understand what they've done and what they haven't.

[Mr.K]

Gig today, I'll post tomorrow.

[Mr.K]

@gg:
why are you in such a hurry to get a hammer again? The deadline is nowhere near here. Also, wasn't it you who was earlier telling Voided(?) to hold back his hammer in order to possibly get more scum tells? Why hurry now?

[Mr.K]

Yeah, but isn't that exactly a good reason to wait? I mean... to hammer now or in a couple of days makes no difference to the flip but might make a difference otherwise.

[Mr.K]

I'm not betting everything on the fact that PG went for a NL. I know that, if I was online, I would have refused to hammer Voided.

I don't understand this comment. Are you saying that PG might not have understood that his unvote would create a no-lynch? Cause I don't think that's even an option.

VOTE: Hiraki

[Mr.K]

Yeah, Hiraki did at one point say that I need to die because I'm impatient. Guess that's as good a case you'll ever get from him

The nightkill is extremely odd indeed. I suppose I'll have to do a lot of re-reading but that will probably have to wait until Sunday.

[Mr.K]

You just figured this out?

Like you didn't check any other games and just conjectured that this is town me?

You require death next. Especially since I and Grey were on the top of your scumlist and you've said next to nothing about us.

nope.jpg

wagon it up

Oh yeah, this. I guess you would have been better off with the impatience, even. But just to clarify your nonsense to the rest of us, could you perhaps explain how, based on the earlier games you read from me, this is scummy behaviour from me?

Except for the fhe final sentence in your quote, which is just bullshit in more ways than one. I know it, you know it and everyone else knows it so you don't have to waste anyone's time with trying to explain that as far as I'm concerned.

[Mr.K]

Yeah, CES seemed like the most town player alive in the end of the day.

@Hiraki:
When someone calls you out on your brain-farts, at least try to pull out one of those semi-ridiculous but mostly just useless defenses of yours.

[Mr.K]

Techno did just hammer himself right? Voided why didn't you hammer? You said you would. I said I would vote Tech, it wasn't just a back door out.

Anyone considered the possibility of some

uber bussing

going on between Techno and CES/Voided? Not sure myself but just throwing that out there.

HOw did you know he was going to flip town?

This is actually a very good point. At the time of gg's posting, the scum-flip seemed highly unlikely.

[Mr.K]

Why would scum NK someone who's supposed to be lynched next?

[Mr.K]

Well, at least gg-scum's bussing theory would explain why CES is still alive.

VOTE: greygnarl

[Mr.K]

^.^ boy, aren't we all being creative and active today!

[Mr.K]

Oh, I know. My 'creative' was mainly referring to your two un-supported votes. Active, on the other hand, was referring to the fact that in almost three days not many people have taken any chance and seilk hasn't even showed up yet.

As for the reasoning for your vote, I can go on with this guessing game you seem to enjoy, no problem! If you're voting me for the reason I think you are voting me, I think you might want to rethink the whole process (also the reasons that lead to the reasons for your vote) from other perspectives as well and you might notice your mistake.

[Mr.K]

...voting me for the reason I think you are voting me for....

[Mr.K]

No, I mean... no. I can't think of a single reason why it would be beneficial for me, for the town or even for you (presuming you're town) that I start explaining your vote. Just figured that I should let you know that I think you made a mistake without demanding an explanation from you since you seem pretty unwilling to give it. You already caught a scum and I think it's easier to catch a town

[Mr.K]

But how? How does my guess on the reason on your vote give you insight into my alignment? Certainly I could make the same guess as town or scum.

[Mr.K]

What's up with all the self destructive scum?

[Mr.K]

Gonna be V/LA until Sunday/Monday. Of that I'm gonna be completely gone for most of tomorrow and have some access after that. Will be interesting to see whether CES will actually get me lynched without presenting any kind of a case before that! Does that happen a lot?

[Mr.K]

He only needs a hammer. Why no-one has done it yet is beyond me.

[Mr.K]

If you're town, why did you vote yourself?

[Mr.K]

What are you talking about? He was at L-1 until he unvoted himself. And still hasn't explained why he voted himself in the first place. It makes minimal sense if he's scum but zero sense if he's town.

As for me being at L-1 now... heh, really? You really think it's a good idea to lynch someone without ANYONE providing any kind of a case (Ok, except Hiraki but no-one - he included - agreed with his case. Probably because it would make him scum as well)? You really play this game to not make an effort yourself, just blindly sheeping others? Sounds fun. But at least tomorrow you have no-one else to blame than yourselves.

[Mr.K]

What will you do tomorrow when I flip town and CES gets night-killed? How about you wake up and do that today?

[Mr.K]

I don't know whether or not I should explain it further. I mean... I really don't know It doesn't feel like a very good idea to basically start helping the scum by reasoning night-kill scenarios

So yeah, how badly do you want me to answer your question? Is it enough if I just say that I think it will happen?

[Mr.K]

Anyway! The point I wanted to get across was that you can't rely on him endlessly anyway so why not start making the effort sooner before it's too late.

Now I must go consume large amounts of alcohol.

CES: You're being lazy and/or stubborn. Think about it.

[Mr.K]

Wow, gg and thanks to andrew94 for pointing out what I first missed (gg's comment that made it seem like Tech is going to flip scum)!

If CES is still curious for some reason, I thought you voted for me because my vote on gg seemed opportunistic at the point when I did it. What I meant by thinking it through was that I thought that at that point someone really had to put more pressure on gg so I did it even though I knew it might have looked scummy. gg said earlier something about how he sees votes as being weapons to add pressure. While I don't necessarily see things the same way, it seemed evident that he did so I used my vote to add pressure. Unfortunately you decided to change wagons so that pressure was a bit useless.

All in all we obviously played very well - just look at the results!

Not sure if I should say anything about the setup since I've only played very basic setups to begin with but I liked it still.

[Mr.K]

(the first gg is supposed to mean 'good game' - I realize it's a bit confusing with gg being greygnarl as well )

[Mr.K]

http://www.quicktopic.com/48/H/2dg95JUVta9A

Great game. I thought I could've held out longer but I think that my real undoing was going against Techno's lynch for so long.

Yeah, I agree with Tech - to me the biggest mistake was the scumslip and to me there wasn't really any way out of it anymore. Obviously CES felt differently, dunno why!

I also was thinking that CES was starting to look scummier to me when he suddenly hopped onto my wagon. I was still counting on him to realize that I was town but had he pushed far enough to actually get me lynched, I think that "supercred" would have started crumbling pretty nicely. Don't think he would have made it until the end as scum but considering how mindlessly some people were sheeping him, who knows. I WAS considering the bussing possibility now too but I think he did it so early that the disadvantages would have been greater than the advantages.

[Mr.K]

Oh yeah, and also the self-vote basically confirmed you... even further imo. I couldn't see any sense in it as town but it could have been a desperate attempt from a scum. Think it might have even worked since you almost got out of the spotlight