Open 440 - Donner Party - Game Over

[Jal]

No to massclaim.

VOTE: Mala

Trying to get rid of the one person who knows your meta best, eh?

[Jal]

Well you regarding the whole Mass claim thing gave me the wrong gut feel too!

If so, you would have said something at the time. Instead you bring this up

now

after Cobbler highlights some suspicion onto you.

Shall I go get you a bigger shovel?

[Jal]

Given Om's hard defense of Mala, I doubt they're scum together.

Hey Jal read between the lines of my posts.
I was against Mass Claim because it reduces the fun I get from the game, but also I don't see how it's helpful.
Which is why I asked what is the point of doing it.

Jal want to tunnel me moar?

I don't need to read between the lines of anything, especially since I'm not even talking about your question towards Cobbler. After Cobbler put some pressure onto you, you suddenly come out that his suggestion is giving you a "wrong gut feel." Nowhere did you indicate this feeling prior when you asked your question regarding mass claim. It's almost like you wanted to OMGUS, but felt too self-conscious on looking scummy to carry through with the vote.

My two posts consisting of an RVS vote on you and a serious post

is not

tunneling, and your accusation just looks like you're trying to deflect the attention away from yourself and onto me.

[Jal]

Yeah, that looks like some chainsawing there, pwns.

In the same post, you express similar wariness Cobbler had gotten off Mala, then you casually move off of that point to then attack Cobbler for tunneling as if it somehow "takes away" from Mala's scuminess. You then proceed to cast a shadow of doubt on the entire Mala wagon and the people who say they've found Cobbler townie. But the cherry on top is when after making an entire post attacking Cobbler and giving plenty of reasons for what behaviors of his has been scummy, you vote for thefool based on a gut feel and a scummy association.

Actually, I have no idea what you were planning to do with that post, but I don't like it.

Also, I voted for Mala in my first post prior to Cobbler. I didn't quietly add my vote onto anything, and that is a clear misrepresentation to make me look scummy.

[Jal]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: pwns

[Jal]

I already made my case for why I think you're scum. No point in explaining it again.

What are you trying to suggest regarding TheFool?

[Jal]

@Pwnz

But you didn't vote for me at the time you made your case, you voted for me AFTER a second vote had been placed on me by nm8. I find this suspicious.

I put a vote on you after your response, wherein you only corrected yourself and reiterated you were keeping your vote on TheFool. You said nothing about any point or thoughts I had.

You say the majority of your thought process in post 32 was strictly stream of consciousness PbPa. A strictly stream of consciousness PbPa

specifically

on Cobbler, apparently. Additionally, if you were truly doing a strictly stream of consciousness PbPa you would have noticed my vote on Mala came prior to Cobbler's vote on her or at the very least I didn't vote for her after him. So, no I don't buy that arugment.

Additionally, in post 32 you said you were suspicious of all three votes on Mala, indicating you are suspicious of Cobbler. You also said Cobbler's post 19 was scummy. However, just now you said,

The only way I become suspicious of Cobbler as of right now is if TheFool flips scum.

It doesn't make much sense and it looks like you're now backtracking on your earlier post.

[Jal]

Okay I've been really busy lately with full classes and work, so I haven't been able to keep up with the thread much. I hope to get home early so I can catch-up with the thread.

Just responding to the last page or two for now:

@Snowy: I can see it being a bit obvious towards the end of claiming who is a VT and who is a PR, especially if people claim the fourth spot early.

Another thing: Having everyone claim and lynching someone may help mafia and SK deduce who the real PRs are, especially if they are in the pool of "PRs" that are being lynched. Taking that into account, and the mechanics of cannibals in the game, it may lend itself for an easy role claim down the line if they kill the correct PR. Mafia and scum wouldn't exactly need to put in that much more effort into it from my point of view.

@Cobbler: I'm

not

wrong on that point and I'll prove it later when I have time.

I don't like the Arugula wagon. I'll go more into it later.

Also, why do you people just straight-up mess up facts in the game? Either you incorrectly assume I'm "quietly" lending my vote onto a wagon, or that I somehow start a wagon with my 3rd vote.

I'll be back way later. Sorry.

[Jal]

That wagon has all but disappeared. Do you know something I don't?

The wagon is disappearing. So what? If Arugula thinks Mala is scum, why wouldn't he vote for and suggest the lynch of Mala when asked? Disagreeing is fine, but the question following implies more than that and I'm not sure if I'm following the logic.

What exactly are you suggesting?

I'm personally getting a town-Arugula feel, but mostly based on meta. He is always scummy-town, it's just figuring out when he is being least scummy. McStab, I'm particularly interested to hear your opinion once you review Arugula's meta, since I know you play frequently with him also.

However, scum can very rarely find scumtells because town players very rarely give scumtells (hence why they're scumtells

Haha.

Here is a game of mine where both Arugula and I were scum polygamists: https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=51&t=22599

I accused two town of scum tells and scum slips. Arugula did similarly (slips). SO DID THE REST OF TOWN ON FELLOW TOWNIES. One town called his lover (confirmed town) NULL. It's easy as hell to come up with this stuff.

I'll respond more fully to later posts after I catch-up in another game and once I cook-up some orange chicken.

[Jal]

@Cobbler

: It's backtracking when he says. . .

The only thing I said was that if TheFool happens to be scum, I would also be suspicious of Cobbler.

. . . when in his previous post wherein he voted for theFool he calls some of your actions scummy and laid suspicion on the people on Mala's wagon. No, he has suspicions of you regardless of that flip and then he tried to make it like he didn't.

No, he didn't say you were scummy, but I never said he did either. I said he was pointing out scummy behaviors.

@pwnz:

I make two big posts pointing out the flaws of your posts and argument and you pretty much fail to respond to either.

1. When I called you out for making a post almost entirely laying down suspicions on Cobbler. Your response?

You only respond to correct a mistake you made.

2. I point out how you had previous suspicion on Cobbler and that you didn't

actually

do PbPa. Your response?

You make some little reply towards BK about your first post and ignore what I said.

Instead of replying, correcting, having a discussion, or doing anything of the sort, you do nothing. Then you come out with your reads list where you finally address me. Do you actually address anything I say? Nope. You instead accuse me of "trying to label me [pwnz] as scummy."

Yeah, I wasn't trying. I

was

calling you scummy. I essentially called you scum in my third or fourth post with my chainsaw comment. You say I give you the run around. On what exactly? The rest is you elaborating on my third vote on you. So what?

I have to agree with whoever said pwnz mass claim idea looks/indicates town more than scum.

@Pwnz: Lynch Arugula base on what policy?

@Snowy

:

Wishywashy. Is he backtracking or not? If not, no buzzwords, please.

I explicitly said he was backtracking. When did I said he isn't? Explain how me saying so is wishy-washy, please.

Also, specifically, how did my posts "set-up" pwnz. Only Snowy answer this please. You say all of this stuff but you don't go into explanation. I love discussion. Have you seen my walls?

Another question: Why did you choose to vote for someone (pwnz) who you didn't think was scummy (actually, you did say you had a mild-lean scum read on him, but s'ok ), but instead "sketchy?" Why not the person you still held onto as scummy. Someone, for example, like Om? Scum > sketchy in my mafia vocabulary. Can you give me yours?

What's interesting here, is that straight after your vote for pwnz, you then start attacking some of my reasoning against him. You then proceed, in post 97 to use my reasoning as an excuse for your "sketchy" read and vote for him. That's not terribly big, but don't try "blaming" me for your read. You can read and think for yourself. Obviously you agreed with some of it, until your badly-timed vote and reads were questioned. You don't exactly explain how I was wrong either.

Excuse me?

If you don't think someone is scummy, why wait for another bandwagon to hop on? Why not unvote? What's also interesting, is that you don't indicate that your next choice of vote would be Om. You know, that scum read you forgot about?

I love your attitude though! RAWR!

Jal - Null
Why do you switch from Mala to pwnz so fast? You were making a case on Mala, when out of the blue, you vote pwnz...

Mainly for pressure.

heFool - Village Idiot

He made a mistake. How does that make him a VI, especially the V part? Do any of his other posts indicate he is an idiot otherwise?

Jal is making a case on yo, that's why he was asking so many questions and getting suspiscious and then he just switches to pwnz, which in turn starts that wagon.

This is incorrect and I've already addressed this previously. Any comment from the Hydra who voted Arugula for not reading?

PEDIT: G has voted for pwnz because of how he assumes he is town and getting the bitter end of the stick, but he has thought that before so he is going against his instincts and voting for him this time around.

If that is so, why did he say he had a mild-lean scum read on him? I also assume he felt Om was/is town also.

[Jal]

UNVOTE: Pwnz

[Jal]

Wait.

Jal is making a case on yo, that's why he was asking so many questions and getting suspiscious and then he just switches to pwnz, which in turn starts that wagon.

This originally didn't

complete

sense due to the "yo," so I assumed it was part of a copy and paste from your hydra qt. But, "yo" looks like "you" like you're addressing someone. The only person who I was questioning at the beginning was Mala.

Uh, is anyone seeing what I am seeing? Serious.

[Jal]

@Snowy

Spoiler: Snowy Quote Stuff

Jal is making a case on yo, that's why he was asking so many questions and getting suspiscious and then he just switches to pwnz, which in turn starts that wagon.

I addressed this a few posts of mine ago. Fact is, when I put a third vote on Pwnz it didn't

start

that wagon.

I didn't 'assume' he was town nor have I ever said that (both here and in outside communications). Omnom's one post is standalone scummy, everything else from him has been okay-ish so far. I listed pwnz as a 'mild lean scumread' because I had conflicted feelings about whether or not his irrational actions were Pwnz-town or Pwnz-scum, and I chose Pwnz-scum for reasons already discussed (been wrong on the issue twice, etc., etc.)

I didn't say

you

assumed. The rest was snark at how ridiculous what I thought you just said was/still is.

@Jal
Please point out specifically where pwnz had accused Cobbler of anything scummy in pwnz' #32. If I'm not mistaken:

Looking back at it, I think I misread ===>

He insinuates in post 19 that asking the question, "what am I doing that makes me seem scummy?" Is scummy.

. . . as applying to Cobbler's insinuation, and not to Cobbler's behavior. Looking back on my posts however, my main point was Pwn saying the only way he'd become suspicious of Cobbler is if TheFool flips scum. However, in post #32 he said

I'm suspicious of all three voters on Mala's bandwagon

Which doesn't quite add up to me.

unless there is a confusion being spread here with pronouns, this is a contradiction right here. Could you clarify, please?

I was saying he calls Cobbler's

actions

scummy, but not Cobbler scummy

himself

.

I feel pretty pwnz out, regardless.

I have to review Mala. I don't know how I feel about her right now.

@McStab:

Arugula ISO?

@Cobbler

: What did you find/not find in McStab's ISO to change your mind?

Catching up in other threads, then I'll come back to this. Nacho, you'll have to be sad for a little while longer.

[Jal]

@Snowy

: While I go through the thread: Why are your combined reasons for voting Arugula?

[Jal]

Err, *what

[Jal]

Where art thou, BK?

@Snowy

: Why do you need Arugula to reply more before answering? You're already voting for him and I want to know why you're voting for him

now

.

When Arugula was asking why you had a town read on Mala, he was referring to post 92 where G put her down as a town read.

Why do you think Mala is town, G? As I side-note to Snowy-M, I often notice that buddying is a one scum sided relationship, if scum is even involved whatsoever. I think Om and you are buddying - are you possibly both scum because of it?

I need to get through Johnny's posts and the

McStab Wall Chronicles

. Urgh.

[Jal]

@Snowy-Gster

: No.

@Snowy-M

: Beyond not seeing your question, what other evidence do have that Arugula is just skimming the thread and not reading?

[Jal]

I'm getting weird Johnny-vibes and I have no idea where they're coming from.

[Jal]

@pwnz: No to policy lynch, especially one as subjective as that one.

@Snowy

Oh Snowy, your continual anti-town aggression has already been well noted. Trying to ask me these little prodding questions of while you sit back on that little throne of yours you've created with that Arugula vote. No dice, amigo. You intrigue me. First, by not answering my question, and then by getting other players to judge Arugula's play with while holding back on your own.

While both of you think through how to answer my questions, also answer this one: Why didn't you care to tell your better half that Arugula was obviously referring to your reads?
--

At most, Arugula is SK or has a crappy scum partner who is doing nothing for him, but I don't see it. Unless it's McStab. Even then, McStab was on a few days ago and would have had an opportunity to reply and at least do

something

for Arugula.

[Jal]

Cobbler would be another choice, but I figure he'd try pushing another wagon

at the very least

.

@Pwnz: No, I didn't ask you any questions directly, but you chose to essentially ignore my post by not responding to my accusations/points I brought up. That is what rubs me the wrong way a little bit.

[Jal]

VOTE: Johnny

You're all over the place.

[Jal]

Will say more in a bit, but

Arugula, what the hell is with your responses? You aren't commenting on the game or anything.

[Jal]

Is it L-1?

[Jal]

Argu had once asked me why I thought Mala was town, but I had just listed her as a scum read.

But your reads are separate from your other half which listed Mala as town prior.

@BK: What makes Mala and I meta-town prior to post 71?

@McStab: What are your thoughts on BK's early rapid exchange with Om?

Cobbler, I don't know what you're doing.

Vote: Malakittens

I don't really want to go past page 17, but I'd rather wait for Johnny's replacement to get in here and take a stance rather than having the day end right now.

It was obvious to me Mala's comment wasn't a joke. Why exactly are you voting for Mala and what does your change in votes have anything to do with what you're trying to say?

[Jal]

@McStab, I thought the exchange with BK and Om looked townish. Your thoughts?

My D1 steam is running out. I'm not completely seeing scum Arugula or buying scum BK (mostly because of the exchange).

I think Arugula has flaked a bit from the site.

Compromise:

VOTE: McStab

[Jal]

Arugula moves farther town in my reads.

How does Arugula get townier when he hasn't posted anything? You're starting to base alignment on someone without any flips based on the actions of players you shouldn't yet know.

That being said, how quickly this BK wagon fell apart and Arugula wagon regrew is making me feel bad. BK is still super scummy in my eyes, but I don't like how quickly it grew and fell. One or the other, sure, but both? It seems to me likely to have some opportunists on it.

The "Oh, this wagon grew so quickly it's suspect!" is a bullshit tell if it is a tell-anything. I've also been lynched as scum having a wagon on me, fall apart, and back onto me again.

Also, what do you consider to be "quick?" It's been days since the BK wagon initially started, Cobbler got off relatively quickly and since your last post only Om got off, so stop being dramatic.

McStab, what is your opinion of the exchange between BK and OM at the beginning?

@Snowy

: Snowy, you realize people can ISO your real reasoning for jumping on Arugula's wagon, right? The "OH MY GAWD U R NOT READING THE THREAD" reason that you borrowed from Johnny to hop into the wagon. Also, you put barely any pressure onto him. Om and Nacho have both done much more than you.

Also, that alignment tell stuff from you is bullshit. Do you know his alignment in this game compared to those other ongoing ones? I've played scum with him and he was one of the most active players. He has been scum before and hasn't site flaked. Give me a break. Get your shit out of here.

I noticed his sister hasn't logged in since Tuesday also. I don't know if it's school or what.

@Cobbler

: I feel like you're just sheeping people. Stop.

[Jal]

I'm up for an Arugula lynch now, mainly as an information lynch. Too many connections to others - just go for the source. Many people have tried to stay off his wagon, get on his wagon late, defended him, or started counter-wagons. If he's either alignment, I think we'll have lots of information to work with the next day.

We will not lynch without a claim though. Not going to lynch a dietitian or something.

So Arugula if you come back, claim. If Arugula gets replaced, claim.

[Jal]

Pwn, I find it equally bizarre that you're willing to hammer without a claim when you're one of the ones so worried about PRs.

[Jal]

I can see your point there, pwnz.

Cobbler, it's not even been 21 days which is what most game days are in Open. The game is not going on too long whatsoever. I also disagree with this notion of yours that games going on too long hurts town. As scum, I've been hurt before by end-of-day extensions and as scum I've won due to the day ending and a lurker wasn't able to get their vote in on time.

[Jal]

Just voting someone and not doing anything else with it won't really help your goal there.

[Jal]

TheFool, thanks for proving yourself to be an idiot. I don't feel like I should have to explain to you that I was only referring to your last content-less vote on Mala in a failure of an attempt to shift the focus of the day.

You want discussion and reactions? Post what you just did without the stupid Arugula hammer.

And no, Om. That emotionally filled out-of-nowhere vote on Arugula doesn't necessarily mean he's town. Oh brother.

Vig, don't be stupid tonight.

[Jal]

Speaking of the vig:

If the vig kills a PR, do we want them to out tomorrow?

I am not the vig, for the record.

@Om: I'd be more inclined to go full on town if Arugula was someone he was after the entire day. His emotions are towards Mala, not Arugula. There is no lead-up to this. And no, this doesn't look like someone who is very devoted to scum hunting.

@TheFool: You wouldn't need to make multiple little responses if you had proper awareness of the thread and reading comprehension!!!!

[Jal]

@Nacho

Is that face for "I'm sure you aren't ) or thanks for narrowing things down for scum?

Yeah, either way I probably failed there.

[Jal]

Okay, this is becoming an emotional fest. Let's drop it.

I concede on the town part, Om.

[Jal]

You have a point.

I back-off.

[Jal]

There's a part of me hoping I'm wrong and that we've caught the serial killer.

I doubt it, though.

[Jal]

@BK: How do you think your play has been so far this game?

I'll get more into this game later. Work blah blah.

[Jal]

Night speculation/WIFOM

: Even if McStab is mafia, he clearly didn't shoot last night. Nacho probably isn't vig either. A vig claim as of D2 is probably safe. Judging by the vig not coming forth with results, I'm going to assume McStab was town.

I also believe Arugula was sincerely hunting for scum.

@Mala:

Why do you think BK would be killed last night vs anyone else? Looking forward to your substance post today.

@Snowy:

My god TF stop freaking tunneling. >.>

this is coming from the person who's only talked about TheFool, right?

Mala has been calling people out on tunneling since page 2 and now suddenly you feel the need to call her out on it. Where was this when Arugula was called out on it by her?

I have heard absolutely nothing to convince me you're not scum aside from a lot of meta comments.

This question feels like you're asking Mala or others for justification in order to not vote for Mala.

Why aren't you voting for Mala, exactly?

TheFool why do you want votes? We are barely a few days in Day 2, Quick Lynches usually don't end well. Except for mafia.

It takes five to lynch. Adding a first or second vote onto someone isn't going to result in a quicklynch. Why wouldn't you personally want to vote? I love the insinuation at the end there though.

I want to see a case on why you think Malakittens is scum, Snowy.

@BK

: I want you to focus on the following question I am about to ask you. Think hard. Think long. Don't take it at face value. Send brain waves if necessary:

Yes or No?

Also, why did Mala, Cobbler, and I become scum reads? (Don't need to think as hard for this one)

@Cobbler

: Why did you ask BK why White Shadows is town when you think he's town also? Originally I thought it was because you didn't agree, so I'm confused.

Also, why am I town?

[Jal]

Mala, I don't know what that post was, but it is terrible. Don't Kondi me. How does thefool even factor into it? Do you believe McStab is scum?

Cobbler, you've become my official towniest person in the game, based purely on meta and the fact we're going in the same "direction." Let me hit some things off of you. Also, I think you and Snowy are one of the few who read walls.

Although I think BK's exchange with Om in the beginning is townish, his vote for McStab post 365 when he was under pressure is scummy. I've done a similar throw-out scum vote before when my lynch looked doomed. At the time I was wary of McStab (mostly before I had some strange theory regarding him either trying to white knight Arugula or actually being scum with him), but considering he was more than likely town I'm rethinking this read.

Towards end of D1, BK posted this:

McStab, TheFool, pwnz, Om of the Nom
JohnnyFarrar , Nachomamma8, Snowy, Malakittens

These are the votes for the only major wagons. I'm guessing at least 2/3 anti-town powers are within this group of bandwagoners. Striked out townish reads.

Discuss.

Which today suddenly changes to this:

Without diving into this too deep tonight, here are my reads.

Town
Snowy
White Shadows
TheFool
pwnz
Om of the Nom

Scum?
Jal
Malakittens
Cobblerfone

Yeah yeah reads change. But to

this

? There's no real indicator BK has even devoted much into the game to read back and change his reads based on anything. I also feel like his reads sort of shift depending on who is under suspicion.

What do you think?

I feel like my life would be 100x easier if I had a definite read on him. Moving on.

[Jal]

I entirely missed some of Mala's posts. Responding to Mala and Snowy in a bit.

[Jal]

@Mala

:

I wasn't saying BK was likely being killed last night. I made the comment that Pwnz post 438 was incorrect as Bk wasn't killed.

Jal you just raised up on my FoS list for that depending on this answer to this question. Did you misread my post or did you not read it at all? If you did misread it how did you come to that conclusion of asking me that question? >.>

I just misread. And to answer your question: it's because I misread the first part of the thread. Also, your post was small. How would I not read a few words? The only thing it counts on me misreading is that it's a response to Pwnz which is barely indicated under ISO.

Stop trying to make it something more than it is.

And honestly, I don't give a care about your FoS list.

From my point of view it was obvious that Arugula was either the CSK or aligned to the cannibals themselves. I have played one game with Arugula and he was acting differently (Sorry Jal he was). I already pointed out that 6/10 of his posts were mainly directed at me, which is where I labeled him tunneling. I didn't see him searching for scum tbh.

He was acting differently, but you weren't voting for him, and you never commented on it when I raised the point he was acting similarly (except for when he just barely responded in Nacho in the end, I still think he acted similarly), but it was also obvious.

I'm also pretty sure he thought you were actually scum. SK has as much as a reason to scum hunt as mafia.

Also, you accuse everyone of tunneling so that points means shit all. And most of those posts of his were answering questions about you instead of directing anything specifically about you.

I can't read the other wall much at all.

I strongly believe trying to change wagons at the end of a Day is anti-town. Only because if you are town you aren't sure which way the wagon is going to go and the fact you don't know what alignment of the player pushing a wagon change is.

How long have you felt this way?

@Snowy

:

That's a scummy hypothetical statement to attribute to me; why are you doing this again? We've already discussed previously: 'do not attribute undue scumminess upon others'. Unless I am mistaken, you are insinuating that I am requesting for reasons so I don't have to vote for Mala, which is sketchy and probably has scummy intentions. Why are you not simply asking me, 'Why did you say ...' as opposed to insinuating that I have sketchy reasons for stating the above quote?

I'm pointing out how I feel about the statement. Get over it.

And no, I'm not insinuating it. I'm pretty clearly calling you out for doing that.

Insinuating is doing a little,

Except for mafia.

DUN DUN DUUUUUN.

Also, answer this from before:

It takes five to lynch. Adding a first or second vote onto someone isn't going to result in a quicklynch. Why wouldn't you personally want to vote?

There's no reason for anyone to be hesitant to vote in fear of a quicklynch during this time. There's no reason to call thefool out on this except to make him look scummy.

[Jal]

Town

Cobbler
TheFool
Whitewhatever (Probably. Weaker though)

Trying to sort out scum reads.

Null

Pwnz

This is where I really wish I knew BK's alignment. He's either totally town or mafia. I really want to in my heart say town though.

Snowy gives me glimpses of town and scum. Although I agree to an extent to Nacho's reasons for calling the slot town, I don't like the way Snowy accuses people and generally "pokes" just about everyone. Snowy is around my second-to-first choice of vote today. Calling thefool out there is just throwing me especially off.

@BK: What did you think of that?

Om is Om being Om which I don't know what that means. However, whereas Om is getting more suspicious of Mala the more people call her scum, the more I personally get worried. I just think it's weird. The point about not wanting to join the bw on Mala is indeed weird considering there weren't many votes on her at the time.

Mala is posting like crap today. Leaning more Mala than Snowy right now.

@Cobbler: Why is Snowy ringing your scumdar?

No matter what, the game's outcome is going to come down to today's lynch and tonight's kill(s). Massclaim for sure then.

[Jal]

I read back on Nacho's posts.

In your prior post you said you had no idea why and now you say because you read back on Nacho's posts. What?

[Jal]

@Mala

:

Alright something is pinging me on Jal and not in a good way.
Vote: Jal

BK,Ommy: the way Jal is playing is it similar to the Jal we had in the game Ommy modded?

Oh hey hey. Mala continues to ignore both the case, points, and questions raised against her.

Oh please run a bandwagon on me Mala. I've been waiting for it since D1. And I will slam you down hard at the end of it. Let's make a case out of it though. What is your case, exactly? I want at least a long paragraph or two to mine through later on.

Oh by the way, where did that thefool = scum go to again?

Please also answer whether you think if Mcstab is mafia.

@Om

:

Man that attack is like seriously so horrible since you take everything out of context. I honestly thought you were town
VOTE: White Shadows
If you wanna say I scumslipped, then man up and fucking vote me back instead of voting someone who you've barely even pushed lately.

Not only is he already voting you, I don't think him taking what you said exactly and correctly pointing out the wrongness of it is taking everything out of context whatsoever.

Also, to both Cobbler and OM:

Cobbler's reason to suspect me about "not considering myself as part of the town," seems like a really odd reason to suspect someone, but I can kinda see the reasons why it's suspicious. It all makes sense though when you consider just how much of a self-centered person I am.

Cobbler linked to a quote of pwns. Did you not read the quote itself before taking credit for it?

Om, who are your scum reads?

[Jal]

Why is this to me? I already corrected Om that it was referring to pwnz's post.

Because I am horrible at missing posts this game. I read from the latest post up lots of times and sometimes I just don't quite make it or I just forget/not notice when ISOing.

Not sure why answering this is relevant. Seems to me you been fishing for role reactions all game. Does it matter what I think? I think McStab was mafia for his whole thing on BK at the end of Day 1.

I'm waiting for a BK answer to my question before showing my case. I think you are scum, but I want to see if see similarities from the game you were scum in and this game now.

He's mafia for the whole thing yet you never commented on either the wagon or McStab himself during it. It's not like you didn't catch his post either. You later asked him why Cobbler was town based on those reads. These things just come out of nowhere with you.

I'd love to see the evidence for fishing for role reactions

all game

also. Unlike you, I don't

know

someone's probable role or affiliation. You realize BK has listed me on his probable scum list, right? He obviously has his own "inkling." So why are you holding this beauty up?

McStab probably was not mafia - and your opinion does matter when it comes down to your process of elimination bit.

Also, you're horrible at my meta. You have not seen frustrated hulk Jal before.

I'm dealing with Snowy who just seems to spew random garbled words half the time.
BK is a nonposting hero.
Om is being extra lazy.
Pwnz isn't posting.
You are just posting BS.

I strongly believe trying to change wagons at the end of a Day is anti-town.

How long have you felt this way?

Going to wait for the case before I do anything.

[Jal]

Something about this post rubs me town, despite no quotes are put up as evidence of Jal role-fishing, the McStab suspicion is unexplained, and the Arugula wagon hop is still scummy.

The only part that rubs me town is asking for other's opinions from a previous game.

Waiting to see where this goes, though.

[Jal]

Mala - Null, but of interest to note is her unwillingness to hop onto Arugula's wagon despite calling him scummy the entire game. TheFool's wagon is going nowhere, but she maintains he's scummier; if Arugula flips scum, I wouldn't be surprised if Mala is a partner.

Interestingly enough, Mala votes for Arugula after she caught up and responded to McStab's post about Cobbler.

[Jal]

@ Jal:

For the trying to change/swift wagons. A while actually.. Longer than I been playing on this site actually.

Game 426. Case closed.

Where is the case on me?

VOTE: Malakittens

[Jal]

Actually, no.

UNVOTE:

[Jal]

Someone do something about Snowy during the night because I have no idea what this is:

Well, right now I am up for a Mala lynch as my counter-part said. I am also open for an Om lynch. Especially because of the fact how much the two connect, mostly on Om's end. Usually I would call these types of players bad town, but this just rings Scum to me. Scum attempt to stay the most off of the town's radar, and Om tries to accomplish that by vote-hopping on the highest bandwagon or the one he thinks will gain most steam.

Also I accuse him and Mala of being scum because of his intense buddying of her in the first few days. Seen in 26,43, and 67. Obviously these aren't the only ones.

Now, I have come to the idea of Om just being scum, and this is his fail attempt at trying to frame Mala. He plays bad, gets lynched, town looks at Mala. Of course I still suspect Mala, because other than her first post, she distances from Om, only referring to him a few times.

Trying to "frame" Mala eh?

[Jal]

The awkward moment when you shouldn't be trying to get a super solid case after voting someone. You should have had it before voting me. ^^

Indeed. Where is my case?

[Jal]

I have FoSed you from the middle-start of the game. My case was building for a while since I kept seeing questions thrown back at others to make them look scummy. My quote can't apply to me only because I didn't vote and THEN try to find a case on you. I was asking to see if I was barking up the wrong tree in regards to your meta; either I am or BK could be your partner. Ommy got himself out of it (not happy about because it would only take 10 mins to check between threads what I was talking about) by saying he wasn't paying attention and I know that's truthful because mods skim posts rather than read them on games.

Though in other terms other than my gut pinging due to your posts Jal, I'm probably wrong.Unvote:

My whole thing of role fishing was that Jal kept saying I'm not the vig and Nacho kept responding and then he probably got NKed by the scum. Jal also assumed Arugula wasn't on the scum team, but labeled him as a SK, this pings me to believe she knew he wasn't on her team because she is scum.

I said I'm not the vig once. Nacho responded with a face. How is that role fishing the entire day anyway?

I assumed Arugula wasn't on the scum team because it was clear when I first said it that no one had connection to Arugula. I worked out the possible partners in my post and concluded how they weren't connected. Although, McStab coming out with BK freaked me out a bit.

@Cobbler

, explain how the only person I could be connected to is McStab when I threw in my vote at the end to get a quicklynch on him. Also, why you're not as sure about me. Also, what makes Mala more town now.

I don't even get how I could be connected to a scum or town McStab. Bleh.

@Om

: Scum suspects yo?

[Jal]

Let's theory some things out a bit.

If McStab is scum, he wasn't the one to shoot. Personally, going into N2 I had a mini pet theory of a Mala + McStab scum team (taken from Nacho's list). I think if they were both scum they would have given McStab the kill since there was some seriously strong suspicion on Mala.by a larger group of people, along with the amount of emotion given off my TheFool over Mala at the end of the day. I think they would be so self-conscious enough to give Mala the role.

Unless they thought I was the vig or something. Hah.

So, I don't think they're both scum together.

If McStab is scum, one of the following probably shot:

BK
Fool
Omnom
Johnny
Snowy
Cobbler

Same goes if Mala is scum, really, but that would be going

really

into WIFOM.

I'm only going on the basis that McStab is town because no one has outed anything. Although, for all I know the vig knows there's a scum McStab and they're trying to sniff the other scum out without outing themselves. I know cops do that all the time. Still.

[Jal]

You scared him off.

[Jal]

I'll get back to you on it. Give me 24 hours to read back through the thread.

Right now it's a no.

[Jal]

All right, I'll just need a bit more time. Glad to see pwnz is at least back. Where is thefool?

[Jal]

Okay okay. I'll get my ass on this finally today. Meanwhile, a question:

Why aren't you voting for anyone Mala?

[Jal]

Snowy, what are your thoughts of Mala vs Pwnz?

[Jal]

Cause we all gotta eat at some point, eh?

Huk yuk.

I'm only on page 5. Bleh.

[Jal]

If you're getting bored, then I suggest voting for someone.

[Jal]

Hey Mala, why are you so concerned about what I'm doing?

[Jal]

Also, I made it clear I'm still going through the thread, whereas White is acting like he already has a vote down while doing dick all.

Don't worry, I'll 75% still vote for you. I just want to make

sure

.

[Jal]

I have a speech to make. Stay tuned.

[Jal]

Mala, are you on right now? McStab wasn't the vig, right?

I'm seriously starting to reconsider White now.

[Jal]

No one but a dietition can confirm Mala is lying.

And I was seeing what sort of answer Mala would give.

[Jal]

Saying "town" as a result of McStab caught my eye.

[Jal]

Anyway, I still want to finish what I want to finish doing and I promise to get that done in a few hours. I've been very busy with class and work and I've seriously twice now accidentally has the post I was writing deleted which has made me not want to work on this thread.

[Jal]

Yeah, I guess you're right.

[Jal]

Mala, did you breadcrumb at any point? Just wondering.

[Jal]

A little lesson from last time, eh?

Anyway, I am proceeding with Mala = town. Still doing my thing.

[Jal]

Yeah yeah yeah. I like to make things clear.

Snowy: Have either of you played with Arugula previously?

[Jal]

My speech is coming, but made half useless by Mala claiming a PR.

I'll look up the game myself.

[Jal]

@MOD: Can we get a vote count please? Thanks.

[Jal]

I almost feel like having a semi-massclaim with the roleblocker, but no vig.

[Jal]

I feel like continuing the BK bandwagoning train from yesterday

[Jal]

Let's dance

[Jal]

This doesn't follow. Voting cures boredom?

Noperooni, but voting gets the game moving, which gets people saying things, which gets people lynched, and by doing so you just might find yourself not being bored.

But, no. Instead, you come into the thread saying you're bored like you've recently been doing

anything

to progress the game for the past week. It just looks like you're waiting for specific things to happen. If you're getting bored while simultaneously doing nothing, then I suggest replacing out before the 24th.

[Jal]

I just wanted to do a little experiment. I don't care to go through the thread and ISO anymore, so here are my current thoughts. Listed are the names of players and posts they or the other player has made in connection to each other which makes me believe the two probably aren't scum together.

I included the links in which I decided I didn't think scum would say or do something in regard to their buddy. Feel free to add your own opinion. I'm traveling across the state right now and I'm about to get off in 10 minutes, so I don't have more time to say much else. I'll say who I think is scum/will vote for when I get back.

1.

Malakittens

: Cobbler (post 20), Snowy (post 509), TheFool (post 407), Pwnz (post 594), Om (post 26)

Least Likely

: Cobbler, Snowy, TheFool, Penz, Om, Jal

Most Likely

: BK.

2.

Cobbler

: Malakittens ( post 20), Om (post 26), Johnny (post 281), Pwnz (post 605),

Least Likely

:: Malakittens, Om, Johnny/White, pwnz, Jal

Most Likely

: Snowy, BK, TheFool

3.

Snowy

: pwnz (post 112), Mala (post 509)

Least Likely

: Pwnz, Mala, Jal
Connected to the rest.

4.

pwnz

: TheFool (post 32), Snowy (post 112), Mala (post 594), Cobbler (post 605), BK (post 73)

Least Likely

: TheFool, Snowy, Mala, Cobbler, BK, Jal

Most Likely

: Om, White

5.

White

: Cobbler (post 281), Om (post 587)

Least Likely

: Cobbler, Om, Jal
Connected with the rest

6.

Om

: Cobbler (post 26), BK (post 349), White (post 587), Mala (post 26)

Least Likely

h: Cobbler, BK, White, Mala, Jal

Most Likely

: TheFool, pwnz, Snowy

7.

BK

: TheFool (post 346), Om (post 349), pwnz (post 73)

Least Likely:

TheFool, Om, pwnz, Jal

Most Likely

: Snowy, White, Cobbler, Mala

8.

TheFool

: pwnz (post 32), BK (post 346), Mala (post 407)

Most Likely

: pwnz, BK, Mala, Jal

Least Likely

: Snowy, Cobbler, Om, White

[Jal]

Reverse TheFool's Most/Least likely

[Jal]

Why did you feel the need to put yourself in the least likely section of every player?

Combination of wanting the names to add up to 9 and that I'm town, so I am "least likely."

I am going to look up when other games decided to claim. If claiming tomorrow, in order of preference I would prefer Mala to claim, followed by RB and then Vig

Anyway, after doing shit all after trying to start a bandwagon on Om, my vote goes to

VOTE: WhiteShadows

[Jal]

I go back and forth on Snowy. I woulda gunned that sucka down N1.

I think your arguments have some merit BK, but I would rather an OM lynch between the two.

[Jal]

I don't really have much of a scum read on TF compared to not being quite sure about Om.

It's a sad day when I think I only have one clear town read. Not counting Mala here.

[Jal]

VOTE: pwnz

Let this day end already.

[Jal]

Mala, do you actually think pwnz is scum?

[Jal]

White hasn't even logged back in since Saturday beh.

[Jal]

I'm counting on some rockstar vigging tonight.

[Jal]

Maybe a little Roleblocker TLC.

[Jal]

I'm not even sure if you're a town read.

Why thefool over om?

[Jal]

Mala, do you actually think pwnz is scum?

Do YOU actually feel as though I am scum?

I'll get back to you on that.

Mala, why did you investigate McStab as opposed to TheFool?

[Jal]

I am good for a Snow quicklynch also.

[Jal]

I've been trying to replace back in starting Monday night so Nya couldn't post during the transition.

I'm the RBer.

Roleblocked McStab N1 and Snowy N2 which apparently meant nothing whatsoever given Om making the kill.

Thinking Mala is actually scum. It was pretty obvious after Snowy's post I was the only one who could claim role blocker after that. Even if I were scum, why wouldn't I claim a PR killed? Yet she has kept trying to to push for me today and with crap logic to boot.

BK. Seriously you have got to be kidding. Nacho could have be the RB'er actually. Clearly if Snowy isn't, Inte isn't, Whiskers isn't and you aren't the RB'er. If OM killed Cobber and he wasn't the RB'er and if McStab wasn't.

Process of elimination I am actually town.
Since:
A) No one Counter claimed me for Town Dietician
B) No one is claiming to be the roleblocker.

Not only does this not clear Mala for obvious reasons (Nacho could have been dietician), again, I was the only one to claim Roleblocker and.. that does not clear Mala whatsoever? Also, why wasn't Mala killed last night over Cobbler?

@Mala, I already responded to you earlier that one exchange between Nacho and I about the vig isn't "rolefishing for the vig all D1" and you didn't respond. Now think closely, why do you think I asked if the vig if they killed a PR should maybe out that? Because I was worried I would be vigged that night given some of the suspicion on me. At the time I thought it may have been Om, because a comment she made earlier regarding killing the serial killer. I've noticed when reviewing Om's games that they like to subtly hint at who they are. Even scum.

But funnily enough, you didn't realize I was fishing for the vig -

all of D2

. Only two people were suspicious of McStab D1 - BK and I at the end. Om had said McStab was a town read which made me doubt my original theory. Which is why I kept asking BK:

@BK: I want you to focus on the following question I am about to ask you. Think hard. Think long. Don't take it at face value. Send brain waves if necessary:

Yes or No?

Which I was referring to game 426 in which he was a vig. "Are you the vig?" I still wasn't sure though. Although, when I suggested later on in the day that I was thinking of a BK lynch, he said his lynch wasn't happening today, which made me slightly more confident, but not totally sure to go down the path of killing TheFool who was a town read.

Did you seriously miss these signs? And if I noticed them, why didn't I kill BK again? There is a slight possibility Om was the vig, but I don't think Om would have killed Cobbler instead of White, so I am going to believe BK. Or if I am just blowing smoke out of my ass now, why didn't I kill

you

who had me as a scum read all of D2 and had a good possibility of outing a scum Jal today?

[Jal]

Speculation means crap all though. I can actually clear myself tonight depending on what happens - even by role blocking Mala tonight. I'll get to this later though. I have things to do and I won't be back for about 15 hours. See you then.

[Jal]

I have been thinking about it. There is the possibility that Cobbler was the vig as he also voted for McStab D1. Cobbler could have killed Om (a main suspect) and the scum killed Cobbler. There actually could be a chance that there are two scum still alive, which means whatever happens tonight means nothing. If so, it would probably be Whiskers/BK.

Doesn't mean much other than I would rather lynch Whiskers over Snowy.

I may be tired and really paranoid. Otherwise, I am following the plan and RBing Malakitty.

[Jal]

Oh wow. I was so afraid there was some BS BK + Mala/White team at the end. I'm glad this turned out well. It's hilarious looking back how paranoid Mala and I were of each other. I think Mala is scum in every game, even games where I am scum. I also play a PR really awkwardly. Amazing how all our PRs stayed alive until the final night. I can't believe how we all targeted McStab N1 though.

Enough awkward sentences. Goodish game everyone.

[Jal]

I'd like to see the different QTs.