Open 447: Overturn To Riddler Day 1...

[saulres]

VOTE: 4nxiety

Because he's the only one I've played with before.

[saulres]

He is a liability in LYLO.

Reason/links?

[saulres]

We have both a one-shot governor and a cop to deal with policy lynches and the targets thereof.

And Salamence, since you brought my attention to the other game, and I looked at it a bit to see of what you spoke, I found this.

Idiots like me dont deserve to play this game.

I wont even blame venrob.

Im leaving.

You joined this game after posting that, and also after Venrob was signed up for this one. So why did you /in to this one, and how do you reconcile with the above quote?

[saulres]

njoseph, I have a lot of trouble understanding your posts. Is English your first language?

[saulres]

Ooh, sorry. I've been on experimental meds myself in the past and they really suck.

What did you mean by "broken suit"?

[saulres]

Disturbed_One and 4nxi3ty, why those votes?

[saulres]

Why?

[saulres]

ATTENTION EVERYBODY

: I'm playing THIS game. You want to bring in Meta, don't give me ISOs and links to other games. Give me specific reasons.

Or are you all (and by "everybody" and "all", I mean Salamence, Klick, and to a lesser extent but still a visible one Venrob) going to base all your votes off of actions that happened in other games?

If I were doing that I'd be pushing for 4nxi3ty's lynch, for how he played the last time we played together so long ago. But I'm not doing tha--

Oh wait.

Unvote

I'm not doing that. So you please don't also. We don't have the luxury of three policy lynches this game...

[saulres]

How do

I

process "This policy lynch is not as urgent as this other policy lynch" when we have at most one policy lynch, which we shouldn't even be using?

Klick/Kondi, what is your reasoning for wanting to vote Sal this game? Don't give me a link to an entire different game, give me a

reason

.

[saulres]

He claimed scum as town to get lynched in Polygamist Mafia (4 pairs of town lovers and a Mafia who has to keep all its players alive to win) because he didn't like his partner.

...

That's playing against his wincon. Why wasn't he banned for that?

Okay, I stopped being "lazy" (that's not my reason for asking for more details BTW) and looked in the game to see what what he said. He claimed it was strategy.

Bad

Horrible strategy, but strategy. Which he says (post game) he cleared with his partner, and was not because he didn't like his partner.

Now tell me why you see that his actions in this game show no "signs of getting better." I haven't seen him self-vote here.

Meanwhile,

Salamence

, please answer the questions I asked you.

[saulres]

@Salamence: How do you reconcile "Idiots like me dont deserve to play this game." and "Im leaving." with your signing up for this game?

And sure, I think defending yourself is a good strategy if you don't want to allow other people to provide uncontested impressions of you which you disagree with.

[saulres]

It's interesting how as soon as the pressure's off, Venrob disappears.

[saulres]

I don't condone the irrelevance -- imo -- of saulres's question about your signing up

I ask a lot of questions. Sometimes the reactions I get to them are telling.

Meantime we have three players who haven't done anything. Having just lost a micro game to lurking scum, I'm wary of them.

Having said that, though, Sal's still bothering me.

Kondi is distracting you from actual scumhunting

This is hypocritical. Please point to one post you made which was scumhunting. All I see in your ISO is you wanting to statistically put us into LyLo based on a policy decision.

[saulres]

saulres's question about "why did you sign up" is still a distraction

I don't think so. Here's the issue: He signed up to a game with someone who he's claiming he wants to policy lynch, with there being a greater than 70% chance of being in LyLo on day 2 if his policy lynch target is town.

I don't think that anyone would sign up in that scenario with the

intent

of pushing the policy lynch, and I don't see town having the motivation to push it in lieu of scumhunting. I do, however, see scum motivation in using it as an

excuse

: "Hey, scumbuddy, I played with this guy before and I think I can push through a policy mislynch on him. I'm gonna try it."

[saulres]

VOTE: Salamence

L-1.

[saulres]

This.

Or are you saying you signed up for this game with the intent of giving town a >70% chance of winding up in LyLo after day 1?

[saulres]

Huh? Why would your flipping town make him scum?

[saulres]

Clarify please? Ignorance of what?

[saulres]

Not sure why you see that as ignorance.

5 town, 2 scum. 5/7 chance if randomly lynching of hitting town. Another townie gets killed at night, that brings us to 3-on-2 LyLo day 2. This was known at signup. If he knew he was going to be policy lynching someone on D1 when he signed up, he knew that that's what he was going to do to the game. Why would he do that?

So, my argument is that he wasn't intending to policy lynch on D1, but then drew a scum role and found what he hoped would be seen as a legitimate reason to go with the policy lynch.

Klick, why do you think he's town?

[saulres]

Let's say we lynch Venrob and he flips town. We are in 3/2 Lylo. Would a Salamence lynch benefit town? A saulres lynch? A <insert any other player name here> lynch?

Same answer to all: Only if they're scum. Otherwise we lose.

[saulres]

Yes, I think you're scum.

When you signed up for the game, and saw Venrob was in it, what were your thoughts?

[saulres]

With plenty of activity elsewhere during that time.

[saulres]

^Why are you asking for a claim at L-2? Rolefishing?

My scumread on you just got bigger.

[saulres]

Kondi is distracting you from actual scumhunting

Sheeping Kondi. Good for the soul.

How do these two reconcile? In the first you say his play is not good, and in the second you say his reads are. Do you think he has accurate reads but poor play?

[saulres]

It had to be fairly obvious a PL would push us into LYLO (most likely)

ISO Sal. He seems to know it would put us into LyLo from the get-go.

[saulres]

I took the combination of this, his first post:

This is a policy lynch. This needs to happen. He is a liability in LYLO.

With his claim of innocence here:

Let's say you lynch me. You are in 3/2 Lylo. Would a Venrob lynch benefit town?

as knowing all along that we'd wind up in LyLo tomorrow if we killed him.

pedit: njoseph, to your point: Something else in my 115: He was "worried" in the first quoted post that I wasn't scumhunting, but he hasn't done

any

scumhunting -- he pushed a policy lynch, and then sheeped someone. He's also made jokes. But he hasn't been looking for scum.

[saulres]

njospeh soft-defending salamence and then turning around, getting ready to jump on his wagon is scummy imo.

Only if Sal flips town.

Speaking of Sal (again), I notice how he's somewhat avoiding this thread. Scum who doesn't know what to do?

[saulres]

Also, Sal, why are you ignoring njoseph's ultimatum?

[saulres]

That's fine, you don't have to like it.

But you really

do

need to provide a reasoning for your current vote other than "sheeping". Or do

something

else that could be considered scumhunting.

[saulres]

Oh, I thought you were explaining why you weren't answering njoseph. I haven't had a chance to look back at what you actually said. Gonna do that now.

[saulres]

Sal, if I'm reading correctly (and I may not be, I'm tired), it looks like you're saying that your vote on him is based on him defending the guy you wanted to policy lynch, or OMGUS, or both. Do I have that right?

[saulres]

Klick, how did you get from here:

Salamence is probably town, unfortunately.

to here:

Salamence is Town because he was pushing for a PL on Venrob when, if he's scum, the easiest option for him is to keep him around to LyLo and hope he screws up. He also finds me suspicious at one point, but sticks to a Venrob PL over a me lynch.

given that the push "for a PL on Venrob" was in place before you even made your first post of the game?

Oh, and also, that last line? "He also finds me suspicious at one point"... Where's that point? I ISOed him and couldn't find it.

[saulres]

ome advice now everyone, carry on posting whilst at work and risk getting MS blocked or play it safe?

Depends on your work's policy, we can't answer that for you.

ill be reading as I can but probably wont be able to offer anything substantial for at least a few hours ...

How many hours is a "few"? Your slot hasn't done anything this game and I was hoping for more before I have to be off later.

Speaking of which.

@Mod

& everyone else: I will be V/LA starting in roughly 6 hours until late late Wednesday night or Thursday morning. I know that's not even a prod range but I wanted to let you know.

[saulres]

Post 127 is mine.

[saulres]

I'm not seeing the misrep either.

[saulres]

In fact, somewhere Salamence basically says that he perceives that Venrob has this time reacted differently to Salamence from how he regularly reacts as TOWN according to meta.

I think he might have felt that here, but only told us today, and only after Venrob's replacement was named.

Based on that, then, he thought Venrob's slot was scum, but then moved his vote off of Venrob to sheep Klick only after Venrob left the game (in Sal's very first post after Venrob left). If he thought Venrob's slot was scum, why didn't he put pressure on Minerals?

@Sal:

Why did you move your vote from a slot you think is scum?

[saulres]

I'm back but no time now, will catch up tomorrow.

[saulres]

@Sal: Why did you move your vote from a slot you think is scum

Because Disturbed is more likely to get lynched than Venrob.

Bzz! Try again. Your vote change happened in 109. Scroll up one post from that and you see the VC in which Elmo said he was replacing venro-- (venmar? Silly mod. Pretty obvious though what was meant). And you can see that at that point, Disturbed had no more votes on him that Venrob, njoseph, or klick.

So I ask again: Why did you move your vote from a slot you think is scum?

Ill even give you 50% off when i reopen my store.

Breadcrumming VT FTW.

How is that a breadcrumb? (Also see Mineral's comments on breadcrumbs.)

[saulres]

mislynch

es

.

So Sal, are you claiming that you know Klick is town?

[saulres]

klick, saulres, disturbed, salamence
the paranoia between you four
troublesome

I kind of agree with this. If we're all town-on-town then scum's got this game locked up.

Having said that, I'm still having a lot of trouble seeing Sala as anything but scum. If you don't think he is, please give arguments for that position.

[saulres]

Sal is obviously town.

Is this why?

Salamence is Town because he was pushing for a PL on Venrob when, if he's scum, the easiest option for him is to keep him around to LyLo and hope he screws up. He also finds me suspicious at one point, but sticks to a Venrob PL over a me lynch.

The problem with this argument, is that if you think someone's a VI, they're dangerous to you no matter

what

alignment you are. So the choice to policy lynch one could come from either alignment.

In a larger game that's not an issue, but when a mislynch puts you in LyLo, to push for it so strongly is scummy. Let's say we all agreed "Oh yeah Venrob's a VI let's lynch him." D1 is over in 5 or 6 posts, and we're in LyLo with no reads or discussion at all. That's much worse than having a VI in LyLo. AND, Sala signed up for the game

knowing

that Venrob was in it. Do you think he signed up with the intention of pushing the policy lynch?

Having said that, Salamence has been at L-1 since post 186, and everyone who's not on his wagon has already posted without hammering. So if we're at a standstill, let us know. That means:

@njoseph, Klick, and 4nxi3ty:

If you're not going to hammer Sala, please state that intention in thread so we can get the game moving.

Also,

@Mod

: Prod on Minerals please?

[saulres]

Disturbed will be tougher to

mislynch

...

What?

[saulres]

Scumslip.

New wagon plox?

If you're so sure it's a scumslip, then why didn't

you

start the new wagon?

Because you're scum and he's your partner?

[saulres]

Glad you're feeling better.

No surprise there. Good work, 4nxi3ty.

In the meantime, all I remember about this game is my reads suck (njoseph was my top townread) and 4nxi3ty seems to know what he's doing, so I wanted to sheep him. He's not here to sheep but his last read of the scumteam included Minerals-now-Riss so...

VOTE: Riss

[saulres]

Sala, you are not conftown. 4nxi3ty could have been wrong in protecting you. I'm still suspicious over your desire to policy lynch blindly.

Riss, to be fair, I've never sheeped before, but I've lost confidence in my scumhunting abilities and 4nxi3ty seemed to know exactly what he was doing, so...

[saulres]

Any counterclaims?

I don't.

[saulres]

Klick: Overvoting since 2012

Not sure how you took that as confirmed town, but whatever. Looks like game's over.

Thank you 4nxi3ty for being so fricking awesome. You've come a long way since I first player with you -- farther than I, that's for sure.

[saulres]

Right, that makes sense. Good deal.