Open 434: Fire and Ice - GAME OVER

[Malakittens]

Hi ^.^.

Okay, I know there's not that much to catch up on, but it's the middle of the day for me and I'm not currently home. Once I'm there I'll do a thorough look of the thread and post things that feel wrong or out of place.

Though, since I made sure my other half wasn't currently voting I noticed there's a player Who currently wants to lynch our doc. Ofc he's not confirmed and could be lying, but we can review this on another day. Don't think we should be killing the doc in D1.

[Malakittens]

Yeah that escape was epic. <3

>:]

[Malakittens]

Okies, going to start by doing 2 pages every post.

Main highlights I'll be looking for is things that give me the feeling of town or scum and why.

---

Page: 1

Kondi is possibly town. He claimed VT to get reactions and I agree with Venmar I don't see scum motivation in this. Was done to lit Day 1 out of RVS mode which is a town tell.

I also agree with Venmar if Kondi is a doctor and he claimed VT how would that help? It draws unwanted attention in a way and that's really something a doctor doesn't want.
Post #14 of Venmar's I totally agree with. All of it, hands down. Venmar is leaning towards the town scale.

Now for Arg.. Yeah he's leaning towards scum on me. Mainly I don't see how pushing a VT is town helpful. Along with the fact he does a 'just kidding! Didn't mean it'.

PM, I don't see how holding a vote is helpful. If you find someone that might be scum, vote them. If you aren't sure you can always remove it at a later time. Post #22 is confusing. The way you worded it was wrong, but I think I got the jist. Let me see if anyone clarifies it, if they don't I'll ask at the bottom of my pre-post page 2.
Just saying votes garner reactions and if you are town and use it correctly it helps a lot, but if you are scum and use your vote to garner reaction it's basically to 'hunt' out PR's.

Dry-fit gives me both vibes for his posts. Venmar didn't start the speculation on Kondi's role, but Arg did. Even though it was a joke, but how do we know he isn't lying about the joke. Seems like you are going hard against Venmar, but letting Arg off the hook for something they did similar. Possible town, but leaning more scum.

Page 2:

Jal basically says what I said above. ^

PM's vote basically feels forced. Forced because he was pressured to put it down, rather than putting it down just because someone feels scum.

Arg's vote on PM basically feels like role-fishing, but not directly saying I'm FISHING! Yeah, he's easy to read under pressure, but you are pushing him to possibly claim too early if he's a PR or you just put a scum or a town in a hole which they can't get out.

@@PM can you explain your wording in this post:

@Arugula: The reason why I think you're scum is because you're the only one I CAN'T trust. I can trust the other 2 but not you just yet. Also, the scum are Fire AND Ice. If we lynch someone with both, it would make no sense.

It doesn't make sense reading it to me, but maybe I'm misunderstanding something or maybe you added a wrong word there.

Btw!

Vote: Arg

After page 2.. He's my biggest scum read.

[Malakittens]

Page 3:

I agree with my other head here. PM your case on Kondi was bad and didn't make a whole lot of sense. Leaning scum to this point. (I'm very aware that he claimed Doctor, but I'm going page by page, bear with me)

Dry-fit. You basically are trying to look town, but it doesn't come off looking town at the same time for that post. It can easily look like you are trying to save a scum partner or trying to avoid a lynch on someone you know might already be town. Previous read on you stays the same.

Tech: Not sure why he's so trusting of Arg with the whole joke. Ever considered that Arg might have lied in order to avoid having to explain scum motivations? What do you think of Venmar?

#63 PM is town until he is CC. Sorry guys, that's how I roll with PR claiming.

Arug your reaction to that claim looked 'fake'. Why it came off as fake to me reading it I'm not sure yet, but it came off as a fake reaction. Sorta like you already knew he was going to claim being town.

He didn't necessarily claim early. He was at L-2 when he claimed and how do we not know he didn't see Chrimi remove his vote? Maybe he felt like he was going to be lynched with getting the proper time to claim. Then again PM is still pretty new, but I could sense he was town when votes started piling up on him.

Guille's post.. Explain to me why Kondi's start is a null tell?
I don't see how PM's BW is a null tell. I have a feeling that all 3 teams were on his wagon (Fire, Ice & Town). At least his wagon helps us in a way trying to figure out who is who. I'm going to use it to my advantage either way.
Guille you are voting Venmar because you disagree with his posts #14/19 or is there another reason or two?
You are reading 'null' haven't decided on how I feel about you just yet. >.>

---

Page 4:

Hmhmhm on McStab's post. I think my opinion might be tainted because part of your post I disagree with. I'll hold off until a few more posts so I have a better opinion rather than prematurely slapping a 'insert what I feel on your 1 post here'

IJK: Well your post was so hard to read. -_- I'll go back to it, sorry.

I see the case against Arug and I agree with Kondi's post #83.

Arug I saw it in the similar way that Kondi did when you voted PM.

[Malakittens]

Page 5:

Jal. This meta seems nothing like the scum meta that I played with Kondi either.
Defense of Arug is noted though.
Not liking that you haven't gave out that many reads. Any other people you see as scum or even town?

I agree with parts of Sawyer post #103. If PM isn't the doctor I don't see any reason for him to claim because if he's part of one of the scum teams HE WILL DIE depending on if they target him because I don't think PM's own team would target themselves.

I don't agree with Agur comment about PM being hard to read without pressure. My most recent game with PM I read him as a Seer a few posts in which explains my hesitation to vote him because I knew he was going to claim a PR and didn't want to take 'heat' for it while being scum. At that time along with other mistakes I did as scum I basically knew I was gone.

Sawyer I don't see how you have a scum read on someone, but you are withholding a vote. Vote garners reactions. I already went over this towards PM and the same is applied to you.

Post #122. You don't mean to be insulting, but in a way it comes off as insulting. You are basically saying I don't think he'll improve with more experience. I had a rocky start like PM and I improved.. Hell it took me a lot of games to improve, but I have. (Not talking about MS, kkthx) Give him a chance and he'll improve, but if you keep shoving 'umg you're a horrible player in his face it discourages him'.

Post #123 IJK beginning post feels like a slip with the if you are Blue. I feel like he just self-claimed because on the fire team. Normally I'd jump a vote on sight of this, but I am going to wait until page 6 to look for a clarification before jumping to conclusions. Especially with the fact he still wants to lynch the doctor on Day 1.
Scum read btw.

Page 6:

Just because you are from another site doesn't mean that it's a good move to want to lynch someone who claimed a doctor. I can see how town could win, but it will be a tough battle. I think it's better for us to lynch someone who WE think is scummy and NOT a doctor rather than waste our lynch on a risk to someone WHO might be the doctor. HUGE, HUGE FoS.

Unvote: Arug
Vote: IJK

@ Jal, I would have loved for you to allow IJK to answer the blue question for himself.

Sawyer's posts on page 6 are giving me town vibes rather than scum.

Arug you still haven't gotten decreased from scum. Maybe after I'm done reading and commenting I'll come back to it and see if I can't see the posts in a different light. I may be too 'scum-visioned' on you.

[Malakittens]

Page 7: (Wohoo, almost done then I have other things to deal with)

IJK:

1.Good you explained the blue comment, even if Jal did it first.
2. That is not the feel I got from your prior posts to how you feel about a PM lynch.
3. Can you give us links to your EPM site?
4. Not sure why, but I'm getting the feeling that you know PM is lying, but you don't want to come out and say it. I'll wait to hold off on expressing my own view until a flip appears. I still don't think risking lynching a possible doctor is a great idea.

PM:

Who do you feel could be scum right now on either team? Just because you claimed doctor doesn't mean you can't give us your thoughts and not scum hunt.

---

Page 8:

Not liking Guile's cooperation in helping scum hunting. I would think by now he would have more reads than he does. Withholding thoughts on players isn't helpful.


---

Kay, I'm done and I seemed to have spammed Page 8 with walls of texts.

[Malakittens]

For Sawyer's town read:

Post #33: I agree with it and I don't see much scumminess in it at all. The whole PM case I agree with, especially, the part about him listing Arug as a scum read, but never applied the vote until he was pressured about it.

I disliked IJK's Post #80. It was so hard to follow and I did the same thing while reading it. (I read it before I went off doing the other thing I had to do)
The way he wrote his post on #80 I think caused more confusion than it helped.

I disagree with the part towards Chrimi in Post #103. Though I disagree it doesn't give me a scum vibe off of it, even though it's directed towards my other half.

I didn't see a problem with Kondi telling the real doctor not to CC. If PM is scum, He'll be NK'd as I already outlined because I don't think a scum team would target their own member. I do think though that PM isn't lying about his role.

The only thing that gave me a slight scum vibe was the fact he was withholding a vote on a scum read, but that doesn't out-do the town vibes I was getting from the two posts.

I disliked post #119, but it isn't a scum tell from the post. It was just an opinion he had on PM.

Sawyer: "He says no kill tonight would be bad and leaves us nothing to work with, which just doesn't make sense. No kill would practically confirm PM the Doc, leaving us to go back and take a closer look at the people on his wagon."

No kill would give us information and it would give us something to work with. Maybe it's not a clear confirmation, but it does give us enough information to look at people on the wagon.
Right there isn't scum motivation in that part of the post.

[Malakittens]

Of course he won't come out and claim scum, but it's so easily for me to tell that he was town before applying pressure.

[Malakittens]

It sounded fake. I don't know how to explain it any better than that.

[Malakittens]

@Jaden do you have any suspects?

I have leaning-scum players,
but no "scum" players.
If that's what you ment.

This games day-phase looks like it's dying out.

I'm going to go ahead and put my vote back on my main FoS.
VOTE: Arugula

Basically you made it sound like you have people you are leaning scum on, but no definite leaders. Few posts later you vote Arugula as your highest FoS.

Just me or does anyone read this differently or see a contraindication? Might be reading wrong due to being tired though.

[Malakittens]

Sawyer, sometimes I do analysis posts like I did before. It's how I was taught to play this type of game, but sometimes I keep it short. It really depends on when/how busy I am at the time. Also, I didn't have to post how I did, but it was a lot easier than having disconnected thoughts which in the ends makes me waffle like a fool.

@ Saywer:

Please tell me how lynching a possible doc who hasn't been counterclaimed a good idea? Wouldn't you rather be lynching someone who is scummier? If PM is lying, which I still don't think he is, we can deal with it on another day, but for now we should be looking for scum rather than lynching town.

[Malakittens]

You didn't really give an impression of it. I wanted to know your thoughts on it. Since you said something above which was on a similar topic anyways.

[Malakittens]

Jal why do you think Guille and Sawyer are town?

[Malakittens]

I do not want to lynch PM right now.
I just wanted to let PM know, that the Doctor claim does NOT erase all suspicion, and PM is still high on my scumdar for being a scummy player.

He cleared that up Arug, he said that he doesn't want to lynch PM now, but the claim:doctor doesn't erase all suspicion.
He didn't say he wanted the lynch now, but he's keeping his options open. Then I saw other things that IJY did that was scummy, but I guess he's taking PM's claim at half value rather than full value.

[Malakittens]

Replacing can go either way tbh. Sometimes people replace out for RL reasons rather than game reasons and you can't base judgement off of that. Sometimes scum get overwhelmed and replace out, but sometimes town do the same. I guess it just depends on the person and their personality. I think it's hard to make a great conclusion from it.

[Malakittens]

Hmhm. That's the way I was planning on hunting as in looking for 4 scum rather than 2/2. I did the (Fire, Ice, town). Because I think we had a mixture of all three on there. I was planning on picking scum out of it though.

[Malakittens]

VOTE COUNT 1.11

[L-7] guille2015:

[L-3] Arugula: kondi2424, Venmar, Sawyer, ImJadenYuki

[L-6] McStab: guille2015

[L-7] Venmar:

[L-7] TeChNoWC:

[L-7] Jal:

[L-2] ImJadenYuki: Dry-fit, Arugula, Malakittens, McStab, PMysterious

[L-7] Malakittens:

[L-7] PMysterious:

[L-7] Dry-fit:

[L-6] kondi2424: Jal

[L-7] Sawyer:

Not Voting:

1 (TeChNoWC)

• With twelve alive, it takes seven to lynch.
  
• Day One's deadline: August 19, 2012 CST or in (expired on 2012-08-19 15:12:00).
  
• V/LA: No one.

"Change your thoughts and you change your world."

-Norman Vincent Peale

---

After my last game with Kondi I always read him as town when he's scum. So I have to think a bit here whether or not he is scum or town. I still don't think a VT in the first post is something scum would do though.

[Malakittens]

No.

[Malakittens]

PM. PM. PM.

How do you feel regarding Venmar, Kondi?

[Malakittens]

Totes. ^

---

Yeah, I hate it when the motivation like this dies. It's hard to post and comment on something new when there is something new to comment on.
I hate to say it, but we need a flip in a sometime soonish manner to get the ball rolling.

---

IJY..
You shouldn't post something that you won't follow through on especially when it's needed in order to save yourself depending on your alignment. Only problem is I would think a scum would fight a little harder when they are caught in this situation which makes me believe IJY might afterall be town despite the scummy things he has been saying.

[Malakittens]

No, that post wasn't directed at you. I'm trying to poke PM into discussion rather than fluff if he's in fact the doctor.

But thanks for the answer Kondi <3

[Malakittens]

Guys something needs to happen. -____- lynch someone, something anything to get some content going.

[Malakittens]

Quicklynch in 14 pages of D1? Not so sure that's a 'quicklynch'

[Malakittens]

One of Venmar/Arug is most likely scum.
I have reconsidered my thoughts on Kondi and he's pending scum depending on his list when he gets back from V/LA.
PM needs to be more helpful since he's almost-no-so-quite CT.
My read on myself is I need to sleep since it's 6:20am.
Goodnight.

[Malakittens]

Right, so I come to the realization that I am thinking Jal is town. >.>

As for McStab. I'm willing to vote him. I'm okay with his votes. His earlier posts gave me a bad feeling. -.-

[Malakittens]

I'm being indecisive.

[Malakittens]

Alright, quick post before I go rest to get rid of whatever I just caught.

@ Guille: It's possible that it could be scum/scum, but I don't think it is. If it was indeed scum/scum then yes the chance of being on the same team is very slim, so it's good to draw the conclusion of them being on different scum teams. It doesn't look like distancing if it was from the same scum team.

@PM: Even I would love to get some communication/conversation going, but you laying back won't help. If you want something done then go something that would "spark" some conversation.

@ Venmar:
Okay. In regards to scum-hunting. I don't think it hurts to run up the possibility of teamscumhunting. Once one member of any group gets caught we can go through their posts to see if we can't find their partner and see if they were on track on the other team. (Yes, WIFOM without a flip, but once there's a flip:scum, it won't be useless)

I'm not liking the fact IJY 'poofed'. Basically right now we are close, but not so close to the deadline. If he's town he should fight a bit more in order not to be killed. Which makes me lean possible town due to the fact I don't think a scum would just give up on Day 1 after being caught.

Unvote:
Vote: McStab

Reason for voting McStab certain things didn't sit with me well. I'm going to apply a bit of pressure to see if I can't get some reaction out of him at this point. Maybe try sparking us into a discussion rather than the town being lynch stalled.

[Malakittens]

Not sure if IJY will even give us the reads. I guess we could have either just caught scum, which I highly doubt or we caught town who doesn't want to fight to live.

@Kondi:

Either way PM will most likely be dead next day if he is or isn't the doctor. If he's the doctor then there's the WIFOM gambit between scum teams on who will target him. If he's town and he faked claimed doctor to live is a bad play all the way down. If he's scum who faked claimed he'll die eventually.
A doctor isn't a type of role that you just want to leave hints in your game play.

I agree Arugula's wagon isn't going to pick up, but it seems like everyone has basically stopped hunting. Yes, I in a way have to, but due to different reasons.

I feel like an IJY will give us some leeway/headway into finding scum after he's gone.

P.S. I do not support a no-lynch. -_- >.>

I'm going to wait for an answer from Sawyer on the vote change before I put IJY back at L-1.

[Malakittens]

Uh, I'm asking because I'm trying to get a solid formed read on you Sawyer.

I agree with McStab if someone asks a question just answer it, don't play the game of I'll only answer it if you answer it first blah blah.

[Malakittens]

Hmm.

[Malakittens]

Yeah it's going to suck for those pushing it if IJY comes out town.

[Malakittens]

No, honestly I feel like the wagon on IJY is for a policy lynch rather than a real scum lynch at this point. If I get removed from town reads so be it, apparently it's my own opinion.

[Malakittens]

I'm used to being ignored during games so. I already said I'm leaning towards one of Arug/Venmar being scum and Arug is the higher.
More votes on you would actually make me happy McStab. I was getting a gutscreamscum feel on you and when votes piled on you it never decreased and actually went higher even.

I am not trying to distance. It's been said in previous posts why I don't agree with it lately and it's because he has 'poofed' which reads to me something town would do rather than scum. Scum I would think would fight harder in order not to be lynched.

[Malakittens]

Due to the way he was acting Venmar was the reason why the gutscreamscum went higher not because of the votes itself.

[Malakittens]

Really PM?

[Malakittens]

Ehm. I was saying how McStab reacted not you. As the wagon grew he felt a bit more uptight about it you could say which didn't and still hasn't sat well with me.

[Malakittens]

Tech, want links of my recent scum games and my recent town games? Or do you want to just look for it yourself.

Yeah, Venmar, sorry I been on my phone a lot recently. I forgot to put comas and shit in it, my bad.

[Malakittens]

Most recent scum games:
1st: http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=83&t=23004
2nd: http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=51&t=22693
3rd: http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=22308

Most recent town games:
1st: http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=51&t=22964
2nd: http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=51&t=22742

[Malakittens]

^ Revenge-Victory would be yours then.

[Malakittens]

Because at the time I wasn't considering him being scum and IJY was doing scummier shit.

[Malakittens]

Interesting. All this means Is Venmar is not a fire scum, but for all we know he could still be ice.

I have to reread Jal's posts, not sure if she was onto something when she got Nk'd. Either she was killed because she was a threat or they thought she was scum.

[Malakittens]

Sawyer, Jal made a comment towards you at the end of Day1 saying that you were the person of interest depending on the flip of IJK.
Right now I'm going in a bit of circles with my own reads. Jal was giving me town vibes towards the end of D1, Kondi/Venmar I figure at least one of them is scum, but Venmar is cleared from at least one group of Mafia and Kondi is a bit of WIFOM due to the NK.

Back later.. Going out.

[Malakittens]

Uh, I'll be V/LA from today until the 27th. Going to city for a weekend. >>

That is the opposite of picking up the acitivity. But noted!

[Malakittens]

Man Kondi did you have a revelation or something?

(totally drunk might say ignore this)

[Malakittens]

If you are fairly convinced Arugula tried killing Ven why aren't you voting him?

[Malakittens]

NVM! Blast is Arugula's replacement. I'm pro x.x

[Malakittens]

Fake raeg?

[Malakittens]

Why are you asking him to claim?..

[Malakittens]

PM have you been reading?

[Malakittens]

VOTE COUNT 2.4

[L-6] guille2015:

[L-3] Blastoide: Venmar, TeChNoWC, guille2015

[L-6] McStab:

[L-6] Venmar:

[L-6] TeChNoWC:

[L-5] Malakittens: Dry-fit

[L-6] PMysterious:

[L-5] Dry-fit: Sawyer

[L-6]

kondi2424

Demon Core:

[L-6] Sawyer:

Not Voting:

5 (Blastoide, McStab, Malakittens, PMysterious, Demon Core)

• With ten alive, it takes six to lynch.
  
• Day Two's deadline: September 11, 2012 CST or in (expired on 2012-09-11 15:30:00).
  
• V/LA: No one.
  
• Demon Core has replaced kondi2424.

"You know what I’ve noticed? Nobody panics when things go “according to plan.” Even if the plan is horrifying! If, tomorrow, I tell the press that, like, a gang banger will get shot, or a truckload of soldiers will be blown up, nobody panics, because it’s all “part of the plan.” But when I say that one little old mayor will die, well then everyone loses their minds!
Introduce a little anarchy. Upset the established order, and everything becomes chaos. I’m an agent of chaos. Oh, and you know the thing about chaos? It’s fair!"

-The Joker (Heath Ledger in

The Dark Knight

)

---

I'll be adding more on Sat hopefully. Have one less game down.

[Malakittens]

Then again you can't always say my gutscumradar isn't always on key depending on games.

[Malakittens]

I feel that you are gonna be good to have around for a little while. You just might help the Town find the Mafia.

I'd probably say Blastoide is fine. There is really nothing better.

VOTE: Blastoide

What was the reason for your sudden shift?
Posts before said he was okay to have around and then a few posts lately you put a vote on him.
I don't get your logic and you are doing it again PM. Just because you have a confirmed role doesn't give you the right to stop scumhunting and be useless.

I still have to go over the IjK wagon analysis, but I still feel like Kondi/DC is probable scum.

Vote: DC

Maybe I'll have a case later. For some reason I was all for this game and then my goforitness went adios. =(

I'll try rereading and see if any gut feels come and if they do I'll vote there.

[Malakittens]

You are going lolwat me calling PM a confirmed role?
No one counterclaimed = therefore confirmed.

What were you thinking?

[Malakittens]

If you're the real doc why aren't you voting PM?

[Malakittens]

First off I already stated that since Venmar was targeted that Arugula was most likely scum, but I was having a gutscum vibe on him during Day 1.
I actually skimmed over the post earlier, I was stuck on the side of the road trying to get to class in a severe rainstorm.
I pretty much just read over Sawyer's post and for the most part agreed with everything he was posted on terms of reads.

My mind has been toying with a scum Techno for a while now. (<.<)
Dry-Fit's posts of he'll say he'll do one thing and then never does it never sat right with me.
I never agreed with the whole Blast's read by people when they said he can live now. PM's sudden jump on Blast didn't feel better and I was ready to vote him at that time which is why I questioned it, but couldn't vote him because I seriously thought he was the doctor.
If Blast isn't PM's partner, I'll bet a weeks worth of pay that DC is the way he jumped on me like he did for my post.

Vote: PM

@ Dry-fit:
Ever check up on my meta like you been planning to do?

[Malakittens]

PM you got counter claimed. Have you read?..

[Malakittens]

Uh, can't be?

[Malakittens]

I'm also pretty sure PM/Venmar aren't partners. The likelihood that they are is slim unless they didn't NK and said Venmar was protected to clear. Again that goes a lot into WIFOM territory.

[Malakittens]

Good stuff. 2 scum left we can do this!

Okay..

I already stated that there was a big chance of Arg/Venmar being scum and now we have had a town Venmar flip. Huge chance that Arg, whom is now Blast, is scum. There was also a lot of distancing between PM and Arg and it could easily been a strategery.

Vote: Blast

I'm horrible at looking for associative links, but chances are it's either Kondi, Tech or Dry-Fit for McStab's partner.

[Malakittens]

Idk Blast I saw everything that Arg did as scummy.

There's a chance Dry-Fit is scum and honestly I feel like he's more of a McStab partner though than anything else.

[Malakittens]

You mind explaining the town reads?

[Malakittens]

Funny how Blast willingly said that PM was his partner. I can understand the fact PM at the time was an unCC'd doctor, but that's a pretty huge leap of faith to make without a flip.

You underestimate people Dry-Fit. Also did you ever read up on my meta like you said you would?

[Malakittens]

Dry-Fit you also don't know if PM was calling the shots. You are speculating a lot here about who did what in terms of being in the MQT.
Techinally everyone, but Sawyer is fair game in this lynch cycle right now. Blast has a point of the distancing from you right before PM was lynched. Though not sure how much information you are going to get out regarding PM because he was totally useless in this game.

Vote: dry-Fit

[Malakittens]

Nah. Scum vibe from throughout D1&2 on you.

[Malakittens]

Also the fact you are saying you are going to read up on meta and never do spikes me the wrong way.

[Malakittens]

Your point? There's two remaining scum. I can vote for either of my biggest scum reads.

PM is happy I wasn't his partner. I'm not happy at all with his play lately. Infact it's pissing me off to no end.

Meaning I think you could underestimate PM to try to talk someone into Nking someone.

Also what motivate would I have for NKing my town read? Zero.

[Malakittens]

There's a chance Dry-Fit is PM's partner, but why would PM randomly 180 his read on Dry-Fit. I'm just worried about that being a setup there, but huge gut feels is telling me the last two are Dry-Fit/Blast and if one of those are wrong it's tech.

Guille is playing the same as I played with him when I was scum.
Sawyer is confirmed basically.
Kondi I'm still unsure, just because someone is being super analytic doesn't mean they aren't scum.

I really need to go back and read Jal's posts. Jal and I had similar thoughts at the end right before she was killed which makes me wondering if that is why she was killed. There's a possibility though that PM killed her because he thought she was the real doctor.

[Malakittens]

This post by Jal is a reason Über caught her as scum in one of my past games:
@Dry_fit: Do you always make questions which paints people in a bad light similar to this one in all of your games?

Vote is staying on Dry-Fit.

[Malakittens]

True, but he's was trying to out them anyways. So he was looking for reactions.

[Malakittens]

The fact that I don't have any connections and the fact you'll have to search hard for it probably means I'm not scum.
Gtfo me. -.-

[Malakittens]

Also where us others? Sawyer, Tech?

Is there anyone here who has played with a town and a scum tech before?

[Malakittens]

Guille I think Jal was a threat and she's a strong town player. <.<

[Malakittens]

Oh whoops.

For Ice, there's two possibilities of Jal. Jal suscepted someone and they were scared of becoming an easy lynch target. Also close to the end of Day Jal was becoming a strong town read. Second as I said they were aiming for the doctor which might not be likely. Regarding McStab they were trying to take scum out.

Now Fire.. They were aiming for Venmar twice this leads me to believe Venmar could have put attention towards one of their team mates, but there's the chance they honestly thought Venmar was PM's partner which is highly unlikely.

[Malakittens]

Sorry to break it to you, but if you read up on my meta it's pretty clear I have one main scum tell which I haven't been in here yet.

[Malakittens]

VOTE COUNT 3.3

[L-4] guille2015:

[L-3] Blastoide: Klick

[L-4] TeChNoWC:

[L-3] Malakittens: Dry-fit

[L-1] Dry-fit: Malakittens, Blastoide, Sawyer

[L-4] Klick:

[L-4] Sawyer:

Not Voting:

2 (guille2015, TeChNoWC)

• With seven alive, it takes four to lynch.
  
• Day Three's deadline: September 27, 2012 CST or in (expired on 2012-09-27 21:16:00).
  
• V/LA: TeChNoWC ((expired on 2012-09-23 12:00:00))

"When life gets you down do you wanna know what you've gotta do? - Just keep swimming. Just keep swimming. Just keep swimming, swimming, swimming. What do we do? We swim, swim."

-Dory (

Finding Nemo

)

---

I still have to read up on Kondi's town meta, but I am not certain he's town.

[Malakittens]

I white-knight more as scum, but I also tend to be more active with wall of texts.

[Malakittens]

Dry-Fit. Nice sheep of a read from Klick for tech. Next time explain it in your own words and not go because I agree with this/that!

[Malakittens]

That quote wasn't me?

[Malakittens]

Well yeah you are wrong.

[Malakittens]

Hai checking in!

[Malakittens]

Vote: Dry-Fit

I still smell scum. <3

[Malakittens]

Right forgot about this game.

The reason simply Guille is the Jal NK to me gave a clear path to Dry-fit. Yes, it could have been implied for McStab also, but the fact is that it wasn't fire that killed Jal.

Dry-Fit you are so wrong.

[Malakittens]

I'm starting to think you don't read Dry. He's vaguely explained his read on me..multiple times even before the last two days or so.

The NK points to you. Plain and simple.
Basically Jal questioned you regarding your style which was similar to how UN caught her in OM's game. That is what made me believe she was town when she did that argument. Now if she was alive the next day I bet she would have questioned you to the ground. Dry you were also not giving me town-gut vibes at all this game.

BRBZ checking something.

[Malakittens]

Unvotes please! PM is at L-1 and we don't want a page 3 lynch with 4 players who haven't even posted. Looking through some of PM's games he's pretty new and while his case is crap we shouldn't rush into anything.

Venmar, no one "made you" do or speculate on anything. You choose how to react and respond to someone else's posts. As a side-note, I wouldn't call Arugula's vote OMGUS. Both of you switching your votes on PM later rather than earlier on page 2 is suspect as hell.

Arugula, dat there is some deflection goin' on.

@Dry_fit: Do you always make questions which paints people in a bad light similar to this one in all of your games?

I don't think I'm putting him in a bad light. It's not scummy to look for scum teams day 1, town does it al the time. I just don't think it's the best approach. But yes I do like to ask little prodding questions in all my games. I am a little bothered that Arugula hasn't responded to my questions though.

However, If you think it's not cool to think about scumteams, why are you thinking of scumteams in this question?

I'm not. I'm asking why, since he IS considering all the possibilities regarding teams, he didn't consider the one I mentioned.

Post #23 Wut? I know I find Aru scummy in page four, but here? I just don't get it. Why Aru and not PM after what PM posted?

I found Arugula's encouraging Venmar to speculate on Kondi's role the scummiest thing in the game at that point.

Post #54 PM could have been lynched here, but we had way too many no posters, like myself. I see that point. Question. If
everyone had posted, would you still want PM to not be lynched?

If everyone had only posted once or twice, I would still want a little more discussion before ending the day. I did think PM was one of the best lynches at that point though.

I don't like Jaden's post 84. It's one thing for Kondi to give a weak case, but it's another thing for IJY to find it convincing and act like Kondi's reasons for voting for Arugula were his reasons all along.

Unvote. Vote: ImJadenYuki

Whelp. PM is scum. Maf have no reason to cc at this point and just give away a member.

All these malakittens townreads are reaching the point of being comical

Dry Fit is also one of the lighter posters in the game, with half as many posts as Mala who he’s voting for being inactive.

There's more to it than number of posts. Mala's post have been very light on content, and very safe and indecisive as well.

i also don't agree with the reasons for your townread on Kondi/domon core. Scum could easily suggest it for brownie points.

Unvote. Vote: PMysterious

Clearly. You begged for unvote a regarding PM, but a next post later you say he was a good lynch, but the reason you give was because others didn't post. Other than that you didn't engage with PM until he was CC'dby Sawyer. After that you start throwing stuff saying that I'm PM's partner, which honestly can't be true.

[Malakittens]

Hm. Surprised you are so confident that you are going to be alive.

[Malakittens]

Quite a WIFOM on our hands here.

I don't think know why if Dry-Fit was scum he'd keep me around knowing I would vote him and it takes just 2 votes to lynch.

This makes me think it's not Dry-Fit as the remaining and could infact be Klick.

Then again I don't see Dry-Fit convincing Klick to change his town read on me to vote me and knowing that I might not vote Klick.

[Malakittens]

Oh wow...

Scum-Klick. Cute..

Seriously though. Now it is probably Klick. There's no way in hell Dry would keep me over Tech and Klick is a strong player. I don't get why he wasn't dead to begin with.

I'm going back to one of my first statements that one of Venmar/Klick were scum. Apparently Venmar is dead, but Klick isn't.

Klick stopped me by saying that it was a WIFOM kill. Yes and no Jal wasn't a WIFOM kill, but labeling it that was made me go "eh".

This is exactly the problem I hate with people using gut as their reasoning for a town read. Gives them the perfect oppurinty to change it in LyLo as they please.

[Malakittens]

Meh. Meant Arg/Venmar as scum, but I was rethinking my read on Klick after he pulled the wool over my eyes on another game.

Jal was going after him pretty hard though. Which can be considered a threat.

[Malakittens]

Then there's the Klick/Klondi is waiting for others to give their thoughts before posting his own.

Dry I know you are pretty convicted I am scum, but please look over Klondi/Klick.

[Malakittens]

That flip flop gives you perfect oppurinty in LyLo to keep me.

You kept bouncing saying my town read on Mala was strong and you should never lynch her.
Then you again flopped saying you didn't see anything that gives that feeling besides the huge posts.
Then again you go back saying oh yeah she's town again!

So clearly now you are saying you "lied" about your read on me in order to suit your needs when it's convient for you.

[Malakittens]

Klick..

You tend to do things as scum that scum wouldn't tend to do. Which makes people give you "town" points for.

Example:

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=52&t=22320

Post #22:
Gave him town points.

Him claiming VT this game could go either way, but he used to where it went to town points because it pulled the game out of RVS.

[Malakittens]

I can't quote off a phone.

Honestly you shouldn't lie. Especially if you are town are you lie.. It's well not right.

[Malakittens]

I don't care what it is called. You can be scum and lying and excuse it as a gambit. Apparently you missed my point all together.

[Malakittens]

That could also be distancing on from both of you also.

Ill answer that later. It's 2am

[Malakittens]

I'm not leaning heavily on him. You are both quite even, but now he's done things that can be easy manipulated by scum.

[Malakittens]

If you are going by meta I do ONE certain thing as scum which is to bus.

I bused during all three of my scum games, but if you noticed that there was none here. The only time I ever jumped on a PM wagon was when Sawyer CC'd him and honestly that is null because you can see both scum/town jump on a wagon on someone who's been CC.

Why was I leaning town on you Klick? I couldn't understand why a scum would claim VT on page 1. So I figured it was done by town, but after a while that town vibe decreased.

Also PM doesn't have to bus in order to bus. He can just distance and PM exchanged some interactions with the three of us. I could see a scum Klick saying if you can bus me throughout this game do it!

[Malakittens]

Either way. Dry-Fit begged for votes to be removed off PM and never once voted PM during his first Page1/2 scummy play.

After PM finally have his reads when he was close to dead he added Dry-Fit on the list of scum reads, which was the first time he ever said it.

PM early said he trusted me which if you look that can easily be take into the same context that PM did to Venmar.

[Malakittens]

I think Demon Core, Techno, and guile are the most Town-like players with Mc. Stab taking 4th on the list.

I think a top 3 is better.

Blastoide
Dry-fit
Sawyer

are my scum players

PM, what do you think of Mala and Venmar?

I think they're Town. Also, I did not put them in order of scumminess. I AM the real Doc. Sawyer is lying.

DC/Kondi/Klick- Alignment unknown -PM places him on a town read.
Techo/Guille- one Nk'd the other lynched, both town. PM places them on town reads.
Mala- alignment unknown by players as not dead yet. PM places on the town list. (I know I'm
Town)
Venmar- dead, town. PM places on a town list.

Blast- Lynched, scum
Dry-Fit Alignment unknown, PM calls him scum.
Sawyer- NK'd, town/doctor. PM calls him scum.

So.. Either PM put Dry on a scum list to distance or PM did it to set up a town member.
Either both Klick/I are town by this list or PM did it to make us WIFOM a bit.

Conclusion: I know I'm not scum.

---

Klick. You already said you looked at PM's game in the past before your last post, is that correct?

[Malakittens]

Kay I glanced at PM's completed games. Yes he did have a completed game before this started it was the second link. We both should know this since we played in it

[Malakittens]

Ugh, You are right it didn't end before this started. He just died way before. I mixed up dates also.

---

I'm still leaning more on Dry-scum then Klick-scum.
From what it looks like on two scum games on PM when his partner is in danger he'll beg for votes to be removed or attempt to counterwagon to a town member. All though he had zero problem with voting Klick.
Dry begged for votes to come off PM.

---

Dry do you have any completed scum games?

[Malakittens]

Which would be?

[Malakittens]

Well. I'm on VLA til Monday, but I have done some research on Klick. Ill tell you what it is when I get ahold of a computer.

Noted.

[Malakittens]

Scum Klicks like to hold the hammer in LyLo.

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... &start=125
(May or may not count as it did go into a Night 3 in order for him to win, did hammer though Day before)

Scum Klick votes during LyLo (before the hammer):

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... &start=100


Town Klick:

Votes during LyLo. (Does not Hammer)
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=23209
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=83&t=23446 (Uh, may not count since he did unvote before he was lynched. >.>)
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... &start=100
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=51&t=23549

That above is for his newest account. Below will be for his old account.
---

Scum Kondi (Holding the Hammer vote and voting in LyLo):

Fakeclaimed Cop as scum, but managed to lose to a governor role. http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=84&t=23015
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=52&t=22320

Scum Kondi (Hammering in LyLo)
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=52&t=22638

Town Kondi (Hammering vote in LyLo)
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=22263

Town Kondi (Non Hammering vote in LyLo)

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=52&t=22181
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=22956
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=22043
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=21946

---

There's a whole another page, but old-Kondi was his more recent games.

---

Like I said I have played with scum Klick before and he's known to do things that shouldn't be done as scum. I have already linked one example from one of my first games on this site.

Question to myself would be: Are we dealing with a scum-Klondi holding the vote or are we dealing with a town-Klondi holding the vote.

Klondi does have the point that PM doesn't bus, in his scum games, but doesn't mean that PM can't learn and it doesn't mean that Klondi couldn't have said anything during pre-game.

Sadly gut is still pinging at Dry for the remaining scum, but since Dry only has one scum game and he replaced during it. I'm not able to correctly meta him as well as I'd like too.

(And yes you have been renamed to Klondi. Kl = Klick, Ondi = Kondi)

[Malakittens]

Dry-Fit I don't know who the last scum is. All I have is a feeling and a bunch of posts. In which both of you look like you can go either way for PM's partner.

Klick doing the whole I claim VT! on D1 on Page 1 makes me think of something similar he did on a game I played before expect he asked if the scum had daytalk which game him town points for. Then with him with holding information, asking for others information before giving his own just made me wonder if it was him. His JMT regarding well PM hasn't bussed, why would I tell him to bus I wouldn't post made me also suspect him more. Then we have the Jal NK which honestly leads to both of you.

I instantly thought that the NK for Tech rather than me was in a way looking as if it was setting you up. Then reading back at your posts between PM on D1/D2 you still look like you can be his partner.

So conclusion:

I'm town, but I have no fucking clue who the last scum is.

Klick isn't playing normally and you don't really have a finished scum game where you didn't replace out of to compare.

[Malakittens]

Really Kilick.. I don't have enough time to go through old games and do it. I do have schoolwork to focus on now. >.>

[Malakittens]

Well. There's nothing to say. I have always voted first in LyLo and lost and I want a town win.

The townies are scared to vote, but the scum wants the hammer. >,>

[Malakittens]

I did.

[Malakittens]

Kay Klick, let's end this then.

Vote: Dry-Fit

[Malakittens]

Well. Klick if you were town bad job, but if scum great gambit. >.>

Good game guys.

[Malakittens]

Have a bad feeling you were scum and I second guessed gut and facts and just lost this for us. >.>

[Malakittens]

Yep, I was town. And no everything didn't add up to me. You just went into that mindset. I probably would have replaced out if I rolled scum with PM.

[Malakittens]

Eh. My fault too since I suck at trying to convince. :/
Sorry guys.

[Malakittens]

Well. Considering I been harping for a dry-scum since PM flipped, but no one really saw it.
I wasn't expecting to be alive either, but guess that was the gambit Dry was going for.
Majority of the players had a town read on me including the one person I have played scum with.

[Malakittens]

I'm really town. >.>

[Malakittens]

Ugh.
God, Dry sorry it felt like a setup and I should have known. If you voted Klick rather than me.. I would have probably switched.
I effing hate LyLo.

[Malakittens]

I didn't really have the time to push it harder.
Ugh, he always does these little towncred things as scum and the holds the hammer, I should have known :/

[Malakittens]

Thanks Tracey. Loved the feedback on the play since it will help me improve later on.

You modded a great game and I loved the setup! I normally love the mod doing the VC posts, but the links you provided helped when trying to do VC analysis.

Thanks for letting me replace in!

Sorry about the lost guys, I second guessed gut because it was off in another finished game so I thought it was a bit offley. I should have waited before voting too since that Wws my downfall, but I was worried about the deadline approaching.