Open 451.2: Vengeful Mafia

[Voidedmafia]

Om, you're not scum this game, yes?

[Voidedmafia]

(And again this game has to start at night my time -_-)

[Voidedmafia]

So, Klick and Sala are being derps this time, huh?

Sala's obvbussing, though.

[Voidedmafia]

I was seeing Sala/Whiskers.

Gonna have to sell me on the Whisky part.

[Voidedmafia]

Sala/Kondi scumteam is autowin for us :p

Good thing thats not the point.

Sala/Whiskers scumteam is autoloss.

Yet both of them involve you...?

[Voidedmafia]

No seriously, shoot Voided. One of you

is

scum.

That'd be Sala.

Lets wagon Voided then, and she can shoot me.

I'm a

he

...

But I wouldn't shoot you. I'd probably shoot Klick or Om over you.

[Voidedmafia]

You're easier to get a wagon on.

That's true enough. Which is partially why I'm hesitant to do such a thing.

[Voidedmafia]

Voided, my mind just went blank.

I don't know why, but I felt the need to say that.

Sala is easy to wagon. Because Sala is easy to wagon, I don't want to wagon him. Better?

Why, Om?

[Voidedmafia]

A lynched Klick that shoots voided wins this for town.

Not really sure about whiskers.

No it doesn't.

[Voidedmafia]

Whiskers, how about you create discussion instead of filler.

Compared to you, who's only quoted two posts that really don't mean a whole lot in the scheme of things?

[Voidedmafia]

VM, Om: is ^this scumflailing, or townflailing?

Don't think he was really indecisive last game, so it does feel more like scumflailing.

[Voidedmafia]

...wha?

[Voidedmafia]

And this constitues good activity how?

[Voidedmafia]

Whiskers is odd, but town.
Klick is quiet, but scum.
I am inaccurate, but town.
Voided is mean, but town.
Om is town because I believe in gamblers follicy.

So one out of four is scum. Are you betting on Klick being the GF?

(also, it's

fallacy

.)

[Voidedmafia]

Don't go there, Whisky.

Also, explain your actions already from #78

[Voidedmafia]

If so, whiskers is the goon with Klick.

I'm asking you if what I said is true. You're the one who had only one scumread out of four possible people.

[Voidedmafia]

Well Whiskers seems to leave out the fact that I'm actually town but w/e.

Hence she thinks you're scum?

[Voidedmafia]

Well, I believe in Whisky-town, so I guess I can go with Sala or Om.

Vote: Om

[Voidedmafia]

so are you saying you'll die first if Om flips scum?

[Voidedmafia]

...Town* -_-

[Voidedmafia]

You can exclude one and two, yknow.

[Voidedmafia]

Actually, I suggested the Om wagon.

Yet you weren't the one who started it?

[Voidedmafia]

Vote: Klick

And sure they can. That's what they call a "mistake."

[Voidedmafia]

Though shooting me would lose the game, simple as that.

Do not feel like skimming through that spam at all. Just pick someone if you're town (and good riddance if you're scum).

[Voidedmafia]

Pretty convinced of Sala-scum right now.

[Voidedmafia]

You people...(except Whisky). This feels like Loran all over again <_<

[Voidedmafia]

In essence, just shut up and take a couple minutes away from the screen if you're going to get this riled up. If I wanted to watch people bitch back and forth I'd go to an internet debate.

NOW THEN, can I trust you can be more civilized in this discussion?

[Voidedmafia]

In other words, can I please not take a nap and come back to a page of you three bitching at each other?

[Voidedmafia]

I mean, if you're town, you have a ton of people that won't lynch you and easy reads. If you're scum, you have an easy win.

Why do you care what happens?

...Because I don't want to come back from a nap to a page of you three bitching at each other?

[Voidedmafia]

Dream Playlist I swear :p

<_<

[Voidedmafia]

And then you vote me like last game and then Whisky hammers, quickly or not <_<.

[Voidedmafia]

I said I had a townread on Whisky. Don't see why I need to change it. Unless Whisky's "Sala is goon with Whisky-GF" is somehow true, you're it.

[Voidedmafia]

That avatar is funny, Whisky.

Om, you're scum by PoE. What case is there to make?

[Voidedmafia]

When you look at his ISO, Whisky hasn't actually done much besides make 2 lists on possible scumteams without really explaining anything and just continues to harp on that and do nothing else.

No she hasn't. There is posts with nothing else, true (that "phallus-y" post comes to mind), but the majority of her posts are contentful and moving the game forward.

As for me, well, 3 pages are just nothing but you, Sala, and klick acting like complete dicks, post-hammer is really only Klick complaining about who he should hammer (more or less). It's not like there's anything I can really post about, to be honest.

Also, my town playstyle is pretty damn variable. (then again, that's because I think my play's degraded, but still.)

P-EDIT: PoE is a read. Also, I got another one just now: You completely missing more than half the things Whisky's done this game and exaggerating what she hasn't to try and show how she's scum.

[Voidedmafia]

Post 60: Asking questions about a post and how it affects other's reads -- pushing the game forward.
Post 57: Pointing out something in Sala's post (even though it's not something I was pushing) -- pushing the game forward and advancing her reads
Post 70: Likely self-meta and stating who she'd shoot -- Helps further other's reads and possibly cluing people into her partner assuming she's scum.
78 and 121: Posting lists to analyze for pairings -- you already agreed this was good stuff.
Post 131: Pointing out an inconsistency in Klick's posts -- Furthering her read on Klick and helping others assess their reads (at least, I believe this furthered your scumread on Klick. I could be wrong.)
213: Stating her preferred shots -- Can help determine potential partners with her.
223 and 4: Defense and/or discussion of her lists -- further a read on her, help possibly determine who potential partners could be pending one of the two's flips (in this case, helping determine partners with Sala since he flipped scum, even if her end result is lol-worthy). Also points out setup things, though this is arguably null.
Post 206: Stating a clear read on a player -- Helps others get a read on her and the person she's declaring the read on. In this case, since she's seemingly stating Om is town to her, it can help people determine if either A.) She's town and beleives Om to be scum, or B.) She's scum and Om's her partner (possibly the GF), and thus is trying to make sure he doesn't die. Obviously B is no longer an option, but still.

Most of these things point to Whisky being town via furthering potential discussion and reads for herself and other people. Is that good enough for you?

[Voidedmafia]

Tell me, how much does Whisky actually state where everyone is in her reads compared to others?
I only count one post.
Also the fact that a lot of what you cleared her for is that Whisky is saying things that may help determine partners makes me wonder if you've actually tried to determine partners using those posts.

Reads aren't everything to determining alignment (though I did notice that and wish there was more). She has content, good enough content, which I've clearly shown.

Also, even if I haven't, the point was that the possibility was there. If I don't use that chance to determine partners that's my fault, not hers. This point is thus void.

Have you actually noticed the fact that I'm trying to get you both to post a lot more and answer questions and give reads on people and give reads myself and actually reason with people and give reasons and basically a whole bunch of shit that either Whisky hasn't done or I've done more of.

...ummm, no? (maybe?)

(Cookie if you understand what I'm doing there.)

And yet I'm just a fucking PoE scumread.

I ISO'd Whisky. I found her to be town.

Thus, via this town read, you are scum via PoE.

Anything else? Well, other than ISOing you, but that will wait until after college because I have to get to bed, like, quick.

1st P-EDIT: And?

2nd P-EDIT: idunno, I'll have to, yknow, check.

3rd P-EDIT: 'Course PoE can cut it. Furthermore, I've explained how I came to this PoE. Making a case on you being scum is unnecessary since I've already made a case for Whisky being town.

[Voidedmafia]

Voided
You're a fucking idiot
You have a townread on one player so the other player must be scum
You haven't even given the other player a chance to be town
You managed to find the time to "make a case" on that person being town
When you could have fucking READ MY ISO INSTEAD

Why the fuck are you so focused on defending Whisky?

Please, just fucking be scum and fess up because your play this game is disappointing at best regardless of alignment.

I

did

say I don't have time to ISO you tonight, so...Why so mad?

Also, making a towncase on someone=making a scumcase on someone else in a 3p LyLo. Sure, they're not certain-definite reads to vote on, but you're making a huge fuss out of almost nothing here. There's always a chance that ISOing you will show you to be townier than Whisky; there's a chance that you show yourself to be townier or scummier than Whisky before I get there; there's also a chance that Whisky can do the same thing. Those are all things that can

possibly

happen in the roughly 9-10 hour span between me going to bed and getting a chance to actually post something on MS, either on campus or at home (well, except the first one, since that obviously requires having the time to go through your ISO in the first place).

For right now, Whisky is a townread to me, so this translates to you being scum. That's all there is to it right now. And you getting all angry about the simple fact that

this is clearly not yet set in stone

doesn't help your case at all. Quite frankly, how you're acting right now makes me think you're scum desperate to get me to vote Whisky.

P-EDIT: Wait, if I'm easier to lynch...why not try to get me lynched?

[Voidedmafia]

I mean, that worked out SO WELL the last game (which, ironically, is the same 3p LyLo <_<). He clearly believes that I'm scum, or at least that's what I'm gathering. Unless you're turning around on your Omtown read, I'm still scum by PoE, so...

What's stopping ya? Either of ya?

[Voidedmafia]

(Though, I WOULD rather not get lynched while I"m sleeping, but I hope the point I'm making is clear.)

[Voidedmafia]

I'm fucking pissed off because all this confirmation bias is fucking frustrating. You're managing to find ways to twist almost everything I'm doing into a scummy mindset and all this is happening just because you have one fucking townread.
ONE FUCKING TOWNREAD
Don't you think the smarter thing to do would be to actually READ UP ON BOTH PLAYERS before deducing elaborate theories as to why the person left out is scum?

What I'm saying is, don't fucking go parading a townread (and PoE scumread) when you haven't even fucking looked at the other person at all.

So I can't tell you what my reads are...?

Also, I find what you're doing scummy regardless of my townread on Whisky, so...that's false, too.

Whisky: Obviously. But Om seems to think that I don't have the capacity to realize that and is trying shove it down my throat when it's already in my stomach and I don't need any more of it.

Again,

currently

, these are my reads. They have not yet been mitigated, enhanced, or whatever'd by an ISO of Om, thus while I'm confident in them (I CAN do that, right?), they aren't definite (and no, I haven't tried to say that these are definitely my reads that I'll stick to). Are both of you going to continue making mountains out of molehills or can I actually get around to doing what I need to do?

[Voidedmafia]

Spoiler: Because I've been press-ganged -_-

Whiskers is definitely scum, and if he isn't he's probably good enough to make the right shot.
Can we just lynch Whiskers?

Disagree because I have a townread on Whisky, but I'm not entirely sure why you think Whisky is scum here. What posts gave you this read?

No, I'm not willing to hammer a null read at this size of a game. I'm not sure if I could trust the odds of Sala flipping town and shooting correctly again.

Decent enough reason not to want to lynch Sala. I certainly can agree with it.

If Klick is town he should shoot either Voided or Sala, since I'm now sure they're scum.
Whiskers is actually town now that he isn't posting fluff.

Thinks Sala and I are scum, while Whisky is now a townread.

You say that Whisky is town because she hasn't posted fluff, but from what I've shown not all those posts are fluffworthy. Explain a little more?

You say Sala and I are scum here. Now that Sala's flipped as the Goon, do you still think I'm scum with him, or what?

Voided is wagon jumping way too much compared to his caution last game.
You just give me bad gut vibes.

Okay, reasoning to think that I'm scum, even if looks like it's more gut than anything.

Previous question about if I'm scum still stands, though.

I always refer to people as town unless I'm super duper sure they're scum. Sala is mainly just a PoE scumread to me.

Here you say that Sala is a PoE scumread, with not much of a scumcase around it. Why is this, when you've just heckled me for doing the same thing? What, exactly, is the difference, obvious or not?

Seriously, Sala is obvscum. He's more concerned about proving his credibility than proving I'm scum.

Okay, so here's some concrete reasoning for Sala-scum. I'll retract that "baseless PoE" line, but I still don't understand why you did that.

Don't shoot Voided anymore, shoot Sala. Whether or not it's Whiskers or Voided will be much clearer when Sala flips scum.

SO...what did Sala's flip tell you?

PEDIT: If you want to know why I'm not as confident on Voided being scum anymore is because your interactions with him and willingness to kill Voided makes me paranoid on whether you're bussing or just setting up for a mislynch.

Here you say I'm town because you're not sure if Sala is bussing or setting up a mislynch. Out of curiousity, which did you think was more likely?

Voided could be scum because he was really cautious with his vote unlike last game.
Voided could be town because Sala is way too eager to get rid of him and Sala is basically confirmed scum. But Sala could also just be bussing.
Whiskers could be scum because he posted way too much filler in the early-game. But I was doing this too, and I'm town.
Whiskers could be town because he's thinking things through instead of blindly jumping to conclusions.

You decided which you want to believe.

A list that's somewhat similar to the ones Whisky made, though each one does have reasoning with it (Whisky provided hers in later posts).

There, I fucking knew it.
I request that I vote first, if we lose this game I will take the blame.
Analysis will come later.

I feel like I should be reading something into that "I fucking knew it", but I'm not sure what.

WHy should we have let you vote first, again?

WHat's the dealio with the references in posts 257 and 258? What were you trying to do there?

Rest of the ISO is stuff I've dealt with, so it's not going in here.

Main thing that I can see is that, yes, Om has been clearer with his reads than Whisky (I think I already admitted that much is true). Yet, out of 82 posts, I only really found 10 or so that actually had any worth. In comparison to Whisky (stopping at post 37 as I think pretty much all the posts after that are contentful posts and such), I found about 10 in there that were good. 1 in about 4 posts is certainly much better than 1 in about 7-8 posts, so the argument that you've quantifiably done more is wrong. Whether the quality is better or worse isn't determined yet, but based on the arguments I've been presented with by you I don't see much reason to change my mind.

Just remember that I have yet to actually compare the quality of those 10-each posts of both of yours before you try to rip me a new one. That will be for tonight so long as nothing else comes up.

[Voidedmafia]

Also, I find what you're doing scummy regardless of my townread on Whisky, so...that's false, too.

NOTICE HOW THIS CAME AFTER THE FACT

...No it isn't?

[Voidedmafia]

Or you mean after the PoE stuff.

Regardless, so what?

[Voidedmafia]

Disagree because I have a townread on Whisky, but I'm not entirely sure why you think Whisky is scum here. What posts gave you this read?

All his posts had been fluff and no content at all. I cbf to check exactly when I said that, but at the time he may have already passed all that off as a reaction test (or just some of it) and I didn't like that either.[/quote]
Treading over the same ground here. You must be looking under a really strict view of "content," because this has already been shown to be false.

Because Whisky wasn't posting anywhere near as much fluff anymore, I've explained I think they're fluff, I still think they're fluff, that's all there is to it.
Hmmm, take a look at EVERY POST TODAY. Maybe you might find that I'm hugely undecided on which of you is the lesser evil.

Right. Because Whisky's posts today are totally not contentful and working things out, and neither are mine. Meanwhile, you've been doing nothing but ranting about how we've been doing nothing (not true) and that you've been doing better than us (well, you've been doing well, at least).

Irony.

Mainly doesn't mean completely, I still had some bad gut vibes from him, and I actually ended up using reason to show why he's scum. You've barely given reason until I prodded you today.

But...my townread on Whisky has been since early in the game and hasn't changed at all?

It would have told me who was scum but then I reread both of you and him together and realised how fucking inconclusive it was.
Though tbh that was just a bit of padding to make it sound like he was the better shot since frankly I knew he was going to flip scum anyway (totes not a scumslip).

OMG LYNCH IT!

Beforehand I thought he was probably bussing, but then I literally had no idea whatsoever.

But your best guess was bussing?

1.)Not really, since I don't actually have any absolutes and 2.)there aren't really any scumteam guesses just some connections to Sala. 3.)Also how I provide both sides of the argument to show my thought process.

1.) okay.
2.) Even so, it's likely you could've gone on to make such scumteam guesses. I'm only hypothesizing here as I'm not sure if that was what your eventual goal was, but it's not that much of a stretch.
3.) As I said, Whisky provided thoughts about her own lists later.

They were so that I could try and deduce the buddy based on both your posts and Whisky cross-referenced with Sala, I just needed to keep track of the quotes I used.

And what did you get? I don't recall you doing anything with these.

You seriously haven't read anything I've posted today have you? There is a goldmine of content and actually wanting to fucking win the game.

Your rants? Contentful or not, they're still functionally useless because that's really all they are: Rants. Yes, they're trying to get stuff done, but they're the kind of posts that scum can do, and I've certainly done a lesser version of that, too (Klick can attest to that in one of the last Newbies I've played with him).

I asked you to make a case on me earlier and you refused to do so because Whisky is town ergo I'm scum.
Now you actually say that I'm actually scummy individually from Whisker's supposed towniness.

The first happened, and then the second ocurred to help support the first.

So I gained an extra reason afterwards. I still don't get the problem. Can scumreads not get reasons added after they're given?

P_EDIT: GOD FUCKING DAMMIt, YOU TWO, STOP FUCKING DOING THIS!

[Voidedmafia]

CAN I PLEASE GET THROUGH POSTING AT LEAST ONCE, FOR CRYING OUT LOUD?!

[Voidedmafia]

Voided your play was pretty damn bad
just saying

PEDIT: You're already dead

Hmph. Regardless, what I was saying about Whisky was true.

And I KNOW THAT! THAT'S THE FUCKING PROBLEM!

[Voidedmafia]

Hmph. Regardless, what I was saying about Whisky was true.

What? That he was town?

...Yeah, totally.

No, I mean that I said was content WAS content.

Whisky: Shaddup.

[Voidedmafia]

Not really, most of his posts were fluff and not adding anything to the discussion or just mindless somewhat game-related quips.
You were fucking blind to the fact that I actually cared about winning and my emotions were real. Your townread clouded your judgement heavily and it severely affected your play which is why I lynched you.

Well, you did look like you cared about winning. I wasn't blind to that. But the anger you were showing didn't sit right to me at all. I meant what I said: It felt like you were desperate scum trying to get me off your lynch so you could win and were doing it by shouting at me.

So you could say that I got the right message but the wrong conclusion.

You were way too focused on proving why Whisky was town than why I was scum, just like how Sala was too focused on proving his credibility over proving I'm scum.

But this is not a bad thing. Showing that one person town is the same as proving another person scum in LyLo, that's very much real and fact. You can get angry at me for not showing a scumcase on you all you want, but that doesn't disprove this.

LYLO is a time when you need to reevaluate your reads, especially with only 2 other people there, and depending on the game you could probably be there because your reads are wrong, giving you more incentive to reevaluate them anyway. You chose to stick by a previous townread that you never even explained instead of taking the time to actually reread both of us and compare them.

I explained it to myself, thus I knew why I had a townread on her. I could've (and probably should've) written out why I had it so you could've seen it, but still. Besides, we got to LyLo by a vengeshot from a townie, not a factional NK from scum.

Not to say that what you're saying is wrong, but it's not exactly applicable in a vengeful since scum don't really get to shoot anyone. I also won't deny that my read was wrong (obviously), but what I said what was I thought and why I had the townread I did.

[Voidedmafia]

I figured you'd be able to tell the difference between real anger and fake anger in regards to me by now

Meh, not really.

It was bad in this case since you were almost doing it just to show me why I'm wrong, which is stupid since you thought I was scum anyway therefore it would have been useless to convince me. As town it's half the battle to prove to the other townies why you're right and person A is scum, not prove to the scum why they're scum.

Explaining it to yourself does jack shit if you want to be heard.

I know that.