Open 456: Faith Plus One [Game Over]

[RedCoyote]

4 pages! It seems like just yesterday I was staring at the game thread, wishing it had begun. I think I will post tomorrow.

Back at you, City!

[RedCoyote]

Alright, I'm going to have to stop for now. I could barely get through 2 pages. I'm a little buzzed, and this game is kind of a snorefest. I get bored easily when I'm town. I'll have to read the rest of it tomorrow.

[RedCoyote]

Ok! Caught up on everything except this. I promise you guys my undivided attention and a nice wall post to admire here in just a bit.

[RedCoyote]

because he's not voting randomly during RVS

What makes you say this?

---

Bulder, the problem with your declaring you will vote the next random voter is that you are conducting a personality test, not progressing the game.

You are finding out which player or players in the roster will defiantly say F U and still cast a random vote.

In effect, you are casting a random vote for a different reason than a random die roll, or you have played with a player recently, which is how I usually assign my random votes.

Whoa. You just blew my mind. I mean, lol, how do you conjure up this stuff?

---

My vote is not random, it is just out of my hands who meets the criterion for it.

I dislike this comment. Trying to separate yourself from the responsibility of your vote seems scummy.

how are you going to analyze something that is random?

Because nothing is random. Well, that's the short answer anyways. The truth is more complicated than that, but suffice it to say that I think there's a purpose behind everything, even if it's to appear "random".

---

I'll reveal why I'm voting you later in the day, probably.

Why conceal it?

---

So many words without actually saying, doing, or revealing anything. Blah blah blah RVS whine blah blah everyone is null. Fantastic. I don't get how shos finds this a good post either.

I agree with this 100%. This is the exact impression I got from his post, I just didn't know how quite to word it. I liked how you cut through the bs.

---

Just because he said he had a reason doesn't mean I have to believe it. Just because you say he has a reason, doesn't make you not his scum buddy. Oh if only I had two votes. Hey....I declare the one vote per player phase over! Vo....don

Yeah, and now you're acting nervous. Radelle and buld are barking up the right tree, I think.

---

You just created a false dichotomy. Either he doesn't have a real reason (OMGUS) or you don't believe he has a reason. You've already decided without actually considering his actions.

Agreed. You should be voting him.

Wholesale piggy-backed on Declan's case in post 27. Your follow-up about ending RVS early gives us nothing to go on is obvious fact for any veteran and is a game theory argument, not relevant to Town vs Scum, and one that had been implicitly spoken by everyone speaking against Bulder's ultimatum.

I disagree. You don't think he's being sincere? I'd have liked it better if he admitted that, in retrospect, Dg's post was silly and unhelpful, but I think his post 64 reads like he actually thought through the issue again for the better.

---

Radelle goes so far as to pretty much guarantee that he's town in a way that makes them look scummy

Ugh, I wish you weren't in this game, and I'm sure the feeling is mutual.

I should've known you'd hit up my two biggest townreads, but your accusations leave a lot to be desired. Where does Radelle "guarantee" she's town? Why is that a scumtell? Do you guarantee that you're town?

Obviously, I know what the difference here is. It feels like you're fishing for roles, and that's bullshit.

haha oh wow

You know damn well those are synonomous. Quit screwing around.

---

Come to think of it, shouldn't someone be asking ABSTA what his vote is about, rather than what I'm doing? L-3 and all.

Why don't you? You're voting him after all.

*sarcasm* Eek. Scum could quick hammer now, if they aren't on the wagon. *sarcasm*

How is that sarcastic? It's as if you put sarcasm tags around it to try and conceal the fact that you're pointing it out in a bit of a panic.

---

I'm betting there's like at least 2 scum in the lurkerpool of

If the Mod is scum, we're all in trouble.

---

town doesnt have to be a townie
townie is finite
town is infinite in role variation, but where this is an open setup, it can either be townie, faith healer, yadda yadda yadda

So pedantic. So useless. How can you not see how lame this entire argument is? If you actually believed it was as serious of a slip as you claim, you'd be voting City.

are you uneducated, or kinda slippery when buzzed?

What, you're saying you don't remember how much joy we've had playing together in the past?

If you're saying you enjoy reading buld vs Dg, then we're even more different than I had thought.

---

Why are you asking City if he sees it? Trying to convince the person you're accusing makes no sense.

Because he's scum.

I agree with you though.

---

Second post in the game, and feels the need to slip in a town claim? Has anyone even cast one vote on him?

*shrug*

Take it or leave it. It's true.

---

This game makes my eyes bleed for some reason, so forgive me for not being active.

I don't. You're scummy for lurking, ignoring the important arguments in this game, and for asking us to excuse that lurking when you are capable of doing more than X is X% town.

[RedCoyote]

EBWOP: You know damn well those are

synonymous

.

[

Town

]----Radelle---Abaddon--absta--shos-buld--City-[

∙

]FT-rapid-IJY-----Fur---Aether-Dg----[

Scum

]

I've been impressed with what Radelle and Abaddon have had to say in regards to putting Dg on the defensive. I especially like Radelle's aggression. absta has been nimble and quick to chime in. He was good to call Fur on his crap. I'm leaning neutral on everyone in the middle there.

Fur is scummy for a host of things, namely his poor argument against City. He expects us to believe that City subconsciously was trying to fish by using the terms town and townie interchangeably. His attempt to vote Dg seemingly out of the blue was suspect. He hadn't spoken ill of him prior to his vote, so him putting Dg at L-1 without announcing it wasn't something I was comfortable with. His attack of Radelle was meritless as well.

Aether is scummy for actively lurking and asking people to forgive him for not giving anything solid. His percentage town reads are strange and too wishy-washy for me. Why not just call people scummy/townie? He's kind of avoided the hard questions, I've noticed. Every time he has posted since those percentages have just been focused on meaningless, minor details that nobody cares about.

Dg is scummy for acting panicky, calculating (why aren't other people asking X questions), and confusingly fluffy. Radelle was good to point this out early. It's why I value her most of all. It all started with Dg's strange post 27. I still have trouble understanding exactly what he's trying to say with it. I hate it. It's so theoretical and full of nothing.

I'd be happy with any of these lynches today, but I'll give Aether a little love first.

Vote: Aether

[RedCoyote]

Keeps promising contribution. Only contrib so far is an unsolicited town claim.

What in the heck are you talking about? What do you call post 158? You think that just appeared out of thin air? I spent over and hour going back through this game and catching myself up.

Additionally, am I not allowed to suspect Aether for lurking? Why is it okay if he does it but scummy when I do it?

Why do you think I shouldn't argue with Fur? Do you think Fur needs you to stand up for him?

[RedCoyote]

Ugh.

EBWOP: I spent over

an

hour

[RedCoyote]

Don't worry; I will likely be doing that soon.

[RedCoyote]

@RC - saying that DG is scummier and then voting aether? Way to avoid voting your buddy, only to postpone it so that u can bus when it's inevitable...

Are you ready for the day to end, shos?

---

@RC

- What's your opinion of City?

Leaning town. She hasn't really done anything impressive yet, but she hasn't done anything scummy either. Further, we have similar impressions of Aether, so I'm more inclined to give her credit for that.

---

Yes, duh, but not a purpose significant enough for the human mind to comprehend how it affects the outcome of this game. If I base my vote on relative positions of stars I doubt you'll be able to analyse it, despite it being non-random. Stop your metaphysical bullshit talk, it's not relevant for the current context.

It's not metaphysical bullshit talk. You brought up an example about stars. Okay, let's take that. So, hypothetically, if you're going off about relative positions of the stars dictating your vote, I'd be asking why you're doing that as opposed to voting based on actual content in the game. Then you're obliged to respond to that pressure in some way. Others may opine as well... etc.

It's very relevant in that you're asking how one could theoretically analyze a supposed random vote. I'm not only explaining how I would do so, but I'm responding to your direct question. If you mean to say that it's not relevant because the issue has been put to bed, well then you're being hypocritical to engage me further. I was the one that needed to get caught up in this game, so the burden is on me to address what I wanted to address with regard to events that happened earlier.

More than just your sharp edge, which admittedly caught me by surprise, I'm concerned that this was the only thing you cared to respond to. Was that deliberate?

[RedCoyote]

Hmm, if you have to ask me, that kind of defeats the point, doesn't it? I think I got what I wanted though.

[RedCoyote]

Not ready
For day to and but ur vote would be only l-2

You make a reasonable point, the only thing I want reiterate is that I am in no way cutting Dg any slack. I'll vote him if and when I feel like that's the best option for me.

---

You're free to make suggestions.

Why are you asking City to give you talking points? This is a really weird response.

---

the new posts by the ex-lurkers make me feel bad about them, specifically, aether; seems like he's either not seriously playing the game, or just fluffing his way through so that it looks like he's active.

If you suspicious of Aether, why were you critical of me voting him?

---

I suggest starting with the A's...Abaddon, Aether and Absta all need a good hard look for their own reasons respectively.

That's a cute zinger, but I don't think there's any substance to it. You really suspect all three of them?

---

Asked and answered. Also, rephrasing someone else's questions in your own words is not scumhunting.

I don't like this. I have a special pet peeve for people that can't be bothered to explain their thoughts and ideas, regardless if they think they have or not. Because people forget. Because it's not difficult. Because, if anything, it gets you to think about the game a little more. Because otherwise you come across as arrogant and condescending.

---

Would someone remind me what the case on Declan is again? I forget.

You're scummy for acting defensive and antagonistic. Some of your fluff posts seem to say a lot without meaning a lot. You post 27 is arguably the worst post in this game thus far. I don't see townies usually writing so much but saying nothing. I make concerted efforts to keep my points concise and easy to understand as town.

---

I would gladly get voted out of this game - this is the least enjoyable game of mafia I have played in a long time

Then replace out.

---

If the town wins I win and my lynch, flip town and wagon analysis will help the town win. I might even be able to "I told you so" during twilight.

Quit acting petulant and play the game.

---

My questions was rhetorical...
I know you don't have enough experience to make a statement like that (look to post #151 and #156), why are you lying?
Also, why aren't you doing anything to help town. Get more involved.

This is a great point! Why are you not voting Aether after this? Do you not like this point as much as I do?

- Her "scum reads" are just easy targets. (Aether, Furcolow)

I hate this point. I forever hate this argument. Do you suspect Aether and/or Fur? If yes, you're a hypocrite. If not, then they aren't easy targets.

That said, your argument against City is acceptable otherwise.

---

Really the only minor issue I have with him is his dropping of his Aether scum-read or lack of moving back to it but that's super minor and the fact that his play is understandable and following reasoning wise overpowers that.

I'm surprised you said that. That was exactly what I was going to bring up. Thanks for replacing in!

Rapidcannons flake points heavily towards it being scum because he's extremely active elsewhere on the site in not just one game but a group of them and I know he has a preference towards being town and is active at it.

This is a terrific point. I'm glad you brought this up because I always forget to factor in things like this. This, coupled with the fact that I don't particularly think his posts have done much for me either way (kind of saying a lot of nothing, I suppose), really pushes him up as a suspect for me.

All in all, I am glad you're in this game. Your summary post really helped me rethink a few players here. As I said a little earlier, I can kind of see absta's case against City (minus that one point), but I agree with a lot of what you're saying here. Of course we both agree on Aether and I hope your vote/post helps put more pressure on him. I like what you have to say about Fur/Dg. I may have to begrudgingly treat them with kid's gloves and see what investigations this town will end up with. In any case, we're seeing very similar games here, so that makes me feel good.

[RedCoyote]

Also, Dg, I hope that last post you made sufficiently allowed you to pout long and loud enough to stop being a baby for two seconds. Newsflash: Sometimes people misread you. Sometimes they don't. Sometimes people listen to you. Sometimes they don't. If the game irritates you that much then don't play.

[RedCoyote]

Too many instances of "neutral", "no read", and "mixed read", imo. You say these are different, but they're basically all the same.

Honestly, Abaddon, that's kind of a crappy post. There's zero fresh content in there. I mean, yeah, now I know what you think of Aether, but I don't get why you're scared to say you're leaning town on him. I don't recall you ever talking about shos to any meaningful degree (could be wrong, but I'm going off the top of my head). Your "see elsewhere" habit that I've already complained about makes a comeback. I see you're not concerned in the slightest. The more posts you make, the more I get the feeling that you come across as somewhat of a paper tiger. I think that's a first for me in Mafia. I don't know if I've ever described someone in that way before. Your aggression that left such a positive impression on me earlier in this game continues to crumble with each passing page...

[RedCoyote]

Let me be more specific. To call FT a null read is one thing, but to effectively say the same of absta and me? That doesn't wash.

[RedCoyote]

Aether putting on his best Dg/Fur performance and whining about people picking on him...

Okay, surely not all three of these players are town? At least one of them has to be faking it.

[RedCoyote]

Sheeping

[RedCoyote]

Prod dodging.

Lately buld has just consistently been saying the wrong things.

---

I don't think City is town and I doubt she'd be pushing her partner this early.
However, Aether is looking more scummy than before with his bs attempts at scumhunting.

I think Aether has got more pull than City right now. I see your point though. I'm still going to hold to my Aether vote. I think he's acting panicky. I think his town percentages are excuses for him not to scumhunt. To please everyone, as it were. I'm glad you're keeping an open mind though. To answer your other questions, yeah, I'm growing ever more concerned with City's lack of meaningful participation. She's spending a lot of time reacting to things rather than questioning things.

As for grey, Baseline made a terrific point about rapid's replacing out that I think is hard for grey to defend against. Well, in a way, he can't, really. It's based wholly on rapid's meta. Right now I think we've got a ton of acceptable lynches. grey and City both being in that group. That being said, that's not exactly out of the norm for my traditional D1 thinking.

---

Let me suggest that there is a case to be made on RedCoyote, who I thought was a replacement he was so silent early in the game. He hasn't really done any hunting in this game at all. He has zeroed in on Aether and just keeps saying the same point over and over again.

I missed 36 hours due to the awkward start of the game. I made up for that with a large wall post. You're just upset that I called you out. I did not "zero in" on Aether. I gave three specific suspects (including you, which you coincidentally leave out), and explained why I had scumreads on each of them.

You need to check that emotional crap at the door. You're acting pissy because I suspect you, and you're throwing a damn tantrum everytime someone so much as bats an eye at you.

One thing I missed in my day ago summary post was my ill feeling about red coyote. I can't stand players who feel the need to soft claim (term used here) as town in a joking way especially early in the game.

It's not a soft claim. A soft claim is "you better not lynch me if this town wants EXTRA help". That's a soft claim. No one soft claims being town-aligned... because everyone will claim they are town-aligned. I was being cheeky because I hate being town. That's why I took so long to post. That's why I dread having to come in here and fend off your crap. Get it? Because I don't know if you're on my side or not. Because I'm begrudgingly having to come to the realization that you ARE on my team, and it kind of sucks given your attitude. That frustrates me more than you know. That frustrates me because I come here to play and play seriously. So when I'm teamed up with people that go "wow why do I even try just lynch me lol troll troll troll" or whatever you said, I hate it. I hate it. I hate it. I hate it.

[RedCoyote]

I just don't really like you or your playstyle, Fur. The abrasiveness doesn't bother me (gay, retard, etc), but rather how you act like a troll and obviously do not care to take the game seriously.

[RedCoyote]

Is that your threat to hammer, Dg?

[RedCoyote]

Well, grey, if he has a PR, he should claim. It would be silly to lynch a player only to have them flip as a Cop because they were directed not to claim. If he is a VT, he should claim that.

I won't tell him what he should do as scum.

[RedCoyote]

Why they were not lynched day one is a mystery.

Yeah, hindsight 20/20 and all that. Aether was a solid lynch. Most people on D1 are. Speaking of which, Aether, if you're reading this, don't hammer yourself, kid. You just made this game that much harder on your team. By taking that important final vote away from us, we don't know who or even if you would've been hammered. This will hurt us in the long run.

Anyways, Rainbow, I agree with your City scumread.

---

I'd bank on Shos/Radelle/RedCoyote/Rainbowdash/Declan and to a slightly lesser degree Abaddon-Town. Leaves CE + 2 of [Buldemar/Greygnarl/DC] as scum.

I'd like to say I had some fundamental disagreements with this to show my independence, but I really don't. This is pretty much exactly where I am. I may flip grey and Abaddon around, but this set of reads is where I stand as well.

---

selfnote: if City flips scum, run up and lynch RC without blinking for post 379.

Fair point, but I support a City lynch. I mean, I'm not trying to duck what I said there. I saw a better odds of Aether flipping scum yesterday. That ended up not happening.

@baseline 401: DC replaced into FOURTROUBLE's slot, not furc. yet another flaker; I'm like 70% sure one scum is between the lurkers this game. it's been going on for long enough for them to catch up five times. I managed to participate, lurk, and participate again, while they haven't said a word.

This is a good point with which I agree. That being said, City is effectively in this category as well.

So going through this ISO I'm feeling like I'm just looking at an active lurker, but not quite, more some creature between active lurker and someone who participates in low pace. I see nothing inherently scummy, just lots of filler posts and such. can anyone give me the case on CE?

But shos, you just said that you're "70% sure one scum is between the lurkers this game". I mean, here you go. City has been playing it super cool. Only speaking when spoken to. Not getting on anyone's bad side. I'm feeling a little distrustful of that. Additionally, I don't think she ever moved her vote after Aether. This isn't horrible (I've done it as town), but it tells me that it's hard to sway her. That could be because she knows who's what alignment.

You know what, I'm tempted to just shut up and wait till City herself defends from those

You should. This is her responsibility.

---

The having common reads thing is a bit damned if I do, damned if I don't. If I come out and say Radelle is scum, I'll be seen as scummy, but if I say furc is scummy, I'm scum too. There is a reason those players are common scum and town reads, so what's the problem?

Come on, City! Cry me a river here. Which one do you actually think? Also, you realize Furc has been replaced?

Do what you think is right and stand behind it. If someone presents something more convincing, go with that. No one should have to tell you that.

---

I'm then asking RC and abaddon.

shos, are you happy with City's entry to D2? If so, why? If not, why not?

[RedCoyote]

Rainbow for tunneling on me and not really doing anything but attack me.

Sorry, City. I very much dislike this vote. buld probably would've been a better target in my eyes, but I feel like your Rainbow vote is misguided. I think you could've put a little more effort into this if you actually felt this way. Otherwise I feel it's just a bit of a cop out.

---

There is no such thing as my complete lack of explanation for my DG vote, only a complete lack of your comprehension of it. You're the second person to insinuate that I did not elaborate on my reason for voting him. Do I need to repeat myself because a new day started? It's all in my ISO.

So, basically what you're telling us is that you don't intend to show any dynamism whatsoever? You'll just vote Dg indefinitely until one of you are dead?

---

best town read votes second best town read with awesome case.

I don't particularly care for it. His ultimate conclusion is Dg is scum for getting on his case for lurking and for OMGUS (even though he hasn't voted buld in I don't know how long). It's basically a lot of words to say a very couple of simple, crappy points (which is par for the course in the case of buld).

seriously you think it was bad? is there, realy, ANYONE here at all who thinks the aether lynch was bad? :S

Nope. Hindsight is 20/20. Rainbow can't see it from the same perspective we did, but we don't need to fight that battle again.

That being said, I don't see how you can continue to defend City. Further, I think you may be letting buld pull the wool over your eyes a bit.

I'mlike 70% null on her you can call her that way, and 20% scum.

You're being too generous, I think. I let her go through D1 without much pressure, but she's taking advantage of the situation at this point. I don't expect her to start building walls, but I expect her to stick her neck out a bit more. I think she's jumping on Rainbow moreso for him being the Fur slot. I think she's stagnant and I think she's trying to play hands off.

---

Seriously? You dont get why the cop should have claimed today if they were alive? I can understand the "both FH claim D3" confusement a bit but the first one REALLY?!? To an extent this is why you are town, you dont think about things or pay attention to things past a level that scum would consider.

Ugh, here we go... theory arguments.

I wish y'all would stop arguing with one another. You both are town.

Vote: CityElectric

[RedCoyote]

Grrr... I don't believe her, but I don't know if I have the balls to hold my ground. Let's see a breadcrumb, City?

[RedCoyote]

Read my case and

think

before you make your next post.

I did. You merely expanded on your Dg vote, which is exactly what I accused you of being stuck in.

---

Hhow did he know about a breadcrumb so surely???? And he actually got it after the claim didnt contain it????

If city flips scum, anytime, im going 100000% against rc until i die or him

What are you implying? Coaching? I genuinely asked for a breadcrumb. That's a pretty standard question to ask players that claim a PR. It's asked because sometimes scum don't plan that far ahead (given that they don't know what/if they're going to have to claim).

---

CE is obviously town.

Town: Rainbow, Shos

Hmmm....

As such, a scum who claims faith healer will risk his alignment exposed if the actual faith healers die. Even if he

did

claim faith healer as scum, we're better off lynching someone else because there is more scum and only the scum who claimed faith healer has a chance of having his true alignment exposed should the actual faith healers die. In other words, unvote him now.

She only claimed it because she was backed into a corner. The claim is not indicative of alignment in anyway. If she's actually a Faith Healer, she'd claim that. If she's actually scum, she's claim Faith Healer. This is bunk.

[RedCoyote]

I do not think the claim idea is a good one. I think buld is now rolefishing. I think if y'all are too scared to lynch City today than we should lynch buld instead.

Unvote

;

vote: buldermar

---

OMFG. it's like your team figured that CE is going to get flak today, and told her to crumb, and then when she claimed, she did NOT say anything about it, and YOU brought it up to remind her. so yes, SOOO MUCH yes. if we get a cityscumflip somewhen, I'm going into a 1v1 with you till the sun blows up.

You're postulating. City's claim did not include a breadcrumb, so therefore RC asking for a breadcrumb necessitates a partnership between them. That's not the case, shos. Asking for a breadcrumb is a standard response. You're reading too much into this. Additionally, scum only have night talk, so it's not like I could even be telling City what to do at the same time as I was posting in the thread. Further still, I'm seemingly the hardest on City's case right now. Frankly, I want her lynched. I don't think the whole of her play reads like a Faith Healer. Additionally, if you take the fact that there are currently three scum and two Faith Healers, odds are actually greater that she's scum (assuming any given scum in this situation would claim Faith Healer, which is a reasonable assumption).

[RedCoyote]

I can actually see why this could look like rolefishing, but it wasn't.

It is. Don't even pretend like I'm in the wrong here. Have the courage to admit that you did something to harm the town in that post and we'll take it from there.

Also, your math presupposes that all three scum would claim faith healer, which is a hilariously stupid assumption to make.

For the first Faith Healer claim of the game? Absolutely. There's no reason not to do so as scum.

---

THAT IS THE POINT. you did not ask if she crumbed, you asked FOR THE CRUMB.

shos, I can't believe you are taking semantics to this level. How lucky for you that you're such a strong townread to me and most of the other players.

I said "Let's see some breadcrumbs, City?"

Okay, I know English isn't your first language, so let me break it down. I'm asking City a question. The question is, let us see some breadcrumbs. This is a casual way of me asking her "Will you let us see some breadcrumbs?" Essentially, I am asking two things: 1) Are their breadcrumbs? 2) If there are, will you show us evidence of said breadcrumbs?

I didn't "know" anything. If I "knew" something, I would've said "What posts have your breadcrumbs?" That is presupposing that she left breadcrumbs. I'm already granting that she left them, so I'm asking what posts I can find them in. The question I asked makes no such assumption. I ask her to show me breadcrumbs. Period.

That's about as clear as I can explain it, and I'm sure it's incredibly boring for other people to have to read.

woooopsie doopsie! scumslip!

Woopsie doopsie, you're in such a tizzy to call me scum that you didn't check the Mod's post 2 as to whether I'm right or not before calling it a scumslip!

[RedCoyote]

XD

[RedCoyote]

grey & Rainbow, just join me on my wagon. Neither of y'all are voting with any sort of real conviction at this point given y'all are both too scared to lynch City with me.

Also, I won't be claiming. I don't know where Rainbow gets the idea that half the people have softclaimed. I'm not seeing that at all. I don't agree with Baseline that 1 scum lynch is worth throwing our Faith Healers under the bus.

[RedCoyote]

VOTE: CE
I'm willing to trust RC, in my experience reading and stuff he is usually right.

I'm not, but thanks anyways. XD

I'm actually voting buld, grey. I support the City lynch more, but I don't think it's feasible.

[RedCoyote]

I asked you both to join me on my current wagon (buld)

because

you both abandoned the City wagon.

[RedCoyote]

Okay, let's say, hypothetically, neither scum player claims Faith Healer. Then what? We have two clears that will die in the next two days. It narrows the suspects down to 9. Those are some pretty rough odds. A one third shot at scum? Let's say one claims a Faith Healer. Then it's still a 33% shot at scum, only the other two scum are now at 25%.

What am I missing here?

[RedCoyote]

ebwop: Okay, let's say, hypothetically,

no

scum player claims Faith Healer.

[RedCoyote]

I think you and Rainbow and whoever else is overestimating the ability of the scumteam to hunt for the FHs. I mean, because Fur was a troll, you think he is or isn't a Faith Healer? I don't think it's role indicative. I don't know what other hard, objective criteria you're using to draw your conclusions, but most anything you could say of someone other than "X is lurking" or "Y is acting trollish" is arguable and likely subjective.

[RedCoyote]

Zar made six posts and claims to have spent seven hours reading... but he didn't vote?

[RedCoyote]

Truth be told, I hadn't considered the idea that the Faith Healers could stick to one another. No one ever brought that to my attention. That's a pretty good idea.

VT.

Unvote

[RedCoyote]

I feel pretty confident that Abaddon is one of City's partners. I suppose I would pick DC for the second one.

I will say that my unvote without putting City at L-1 looked pretty bad in retrospect. I didn't vote out of respect for Baseline's request to keep the day going, but also because I miscounted the amount of votes originally (Rainbow had voted her twice). By the time I came back to the site, the thread was closed. Any other allegations that have been made against me with regards to that relationship (i.e. shos' arguments) have been thoroughly refuted.

So, with that out of the way, let's pay more attention to our friend Abaddon. He's been trying to sweep any City suspicions under the rug from the word go with his crusades against Dg and shos.

Vote: Abaddon

[RedCoyote]

Post 625, 615, 601... etc. We don't need to beat the same dead horse over again. Let's move on to more promising leads.

[RedCoyote]

Yeah, and I disproved it. I have been on City's case most all of D2 (and toward the end of D1). I stopped on account of the wagon collapsing. Now, admittedly, I should've got back on at the end of D2. I explained why I didn't. You can take it or leave it, but there it is.

Trust me, shos. I would never lie to you.

[RedCoyote]

Do you not find Adaddons final post yesterday to be genuine?

It was a massclaim, so no, not particularly.

Though as I look over DC's activity, I'm a bit struck that the only thing he had to say about City was this,

I'm inclined to believe CE as she's another townread

As you've mentioned, he never really brings her up at all on D2. He more or less ignores her. Hmmm...

Unvote

;

vote: Demon Core

[RedCoyote]

While not entirely implausible, I'm a bit disinclined to think two scum partners would both miss out on giving reads on each other in their read summaries.

This is a solid point.

---

Zar, I actually think the fact that CE didn't mention the FourTrouble slot in her reads list post actually strengthens the fact that they're a likely partnership - she probably based the placement of people via ISO reading them and thus determining what stance to have on them and scum often glimpse past or avoid reading partners posts because they don't feel inclined to respond to them so her not having the slot isn't a point against the pair.

I don't agree with this, Base. I think City would've looked for any opportunity to throw some lame attacks at FT for lurking. Both sides parties ignoring the other for long periods of time? Seems like it would draw attention. At least I think they would've spoken about this over N1, don't you?

Unvote

;

vote: Abaddon

I'm going to go with my instinct that tells me Abaddon severely altered his playstyle, stayed off track, and generally stays non-committal about the more important stuff lately.

5. CityElectric - Fairly neutral, slight suspicion. I don't get the case on her, the only thing I find amiss in her ISO is that while she isn't absent, neither has she done anything. Really, I can't find a single solidly productive post.

That said, I have a hard time seeing CE-scum being dumb enough to respond to a serious case so sullenly.

Both of these comments look bad, in retrospect.

[RedCoyote]

he seems to have flaked the site lately so it's of no use

And that makes him different from a DC wagon... how, exactly? I love how you say there is substance to voting Abaddon, and

two sentences later

come down on me for voting him. Despite the fact that I was voting him coming into today. Despite the fact that I have suspected him since the middle of D2. Oh, no, don't take any of that into account.

---

RC, FT had replaced out before N1 I believe and CEs reads list where she missed FT was also before N1.

Exactly. DC (Antihero) had joined the game before the day was over. Ergo, they would likely have mentioned to one another that they were conspicuously quiet about one another... but seemingly nothing changed on D2. You don't agree that's odd? Or do you think this is grasping at straws?

[RedCoyote]

Defend my honor, grey!

[RedCoyote]

I do not remember who everyone suspected at all times you know.

That's fine. I don't expect you to. That's why I'm telling you.

---

I'm content with a grey lynch. I think we're letting Abaddon's slot off the hook though. His flaking is null. I get Base's reluctance to support his lynch, but thus far he's been the only one to really come to his defense. I contend that Abaddon was got this game rolling early in misdirection with his focus on Dg. I'm making this argument entirely with retrospect in mind, because I would've been right there with him had I been around for the first few pages. After the flips/claims we've had though, I think it was the wrong direction for the town. The Aether and City lynches were more problematic than they should've been, and that was due in no small part to Abaddon's isolation from the important events of this game. I acknowledge a desire to be independent and throw different ideas into the mix, but there was clearly no reciprocation for his arguments after some time. The fact that he was tone deaf to his inability to grasp anyone's attention strikes me as suspect. He was saying a lot without saying very much. I think it's the strongest lead we have to go on that isn't Antihero/grey being generally lackluster throughout. Not that I'm particularly disappointed with lynching either of these players, but I'm not really satisfied with them.

Antihero/grey, why don't y'all both join me? We'll make this day a little more competitive at worst, and we'll lynch scum at best.

[RedCoyote]

Dammit, grey. What happened to sheeping your best pal, RC?

[RedCoyote]

You are content with a greygnarl lynch, but you're not voting him - you're voting abaddon - despite you being the only one there and gery having 3 votes already.

And...? I don't know grey's alignment. Just because I don't care whether he is lynched or not doesn't mean he can't help me out with my lynch. I made it clear that I preferred an Abaddon lynch to a grey lynch, did I not?

Did I not, shos?

---

VOTE: RedCoyote

• I think abaddon and radelle (I know she's getting replaced, blah blah blah) are scum.

  
  

  shos is a town metaread, as is RC

  
  

  Why is shos acting like scumabaddon is so absurd?

  
  

  I love how no one disagrees with me on Abaddon but everyone still thinks I'm scum.

[RedCoyote]

So I suppose your Abaddon scumread just vanished into thin air then, hm?

In other words, just ignore what you say, because you're liable to change at at any given time whenever you feel like it?

[RedCoyote]

Dammit, Antihero. What happened to sheeping your best pal, RC?

[RedCoyote]

Unvote

;

vote: greygnarl

There's no other logical choice for me. I made my arguments. They weren't convincing enough, so I won't hold out any longer. Antihero and Majiffy are both better choices that this.

[RedCoyote]

Didn't choose a grey lynch, but I wasn't able to stop it... c'est la vie.

No one has yet been able to properly refute the argument that Abaddon attempted to subvert the City wagon throughout D2, generally refused to touch her with a ten-foot poll, and wasted a copious amount of time with distractions like Dg and shos. Majiffy has done nothing worthwhile since replacing in other than his usual arrogant schtick. Further, he's beating the same shos war drum that

no one

has shown any creditable interest in that I can tell. The players in this slot have intentionally marginalized their play in a false attempt to appear independent, but really they're just wanting to remain useless and stubborn to frustrate the town. This should be the player we lynch today, and it's high time we stop letting him off the hook for being useless in regards to the major issues of the game. No amount of "his claim looked good" is going to prevent me from pushing this wagon hard.

Vote: Majiffy

[RedCoyote]

That's different. There's call for my wagon. It's unfortunate, but it's there. There's no call for the shos wagon though.

[RedCoyote]

Yeah, a Zar lynch is pretty silly and you should feel silly for suggesting it (it's almost as bad of an idea as lynching me).

It's no wonder that I suspect you too, Antihero.

[RedCoyote]

I've laid out why I think Zar is town, Antihero. It has nothing to do with big chunks. Radelle's aggression and common sense approach to the game was consistent with how I read the game. I've yet to show strong disagreements with the slot. I don't intend to seriously entertain the notion of a Zar or shos wagon at this juncture. Not while you and Majiffy are still alive.

[RedCoyote]

I think that was a hammer, counting Zar's vote?

I didn't even know either of them suspected me... It would've been nice to have been able to defend myself a bit.

I'm town, of course. I really wish you wouldn't have ended the day so quickly, Rach, but whatever. Good luck, town. I would say Majiffy > Rach > Antihero if given the chance right now.

[RedCoyote]

Although Zar does make a decent point about the grey wagon.

[RedCoyote]

Er, nevermind. Ignore the last two posts.

The case is more than just tunnelling, Rach. Both Abaddon and DC (Antihero) went out of their way to avoid City. This is a connection that shouldn't be dismissed so easily. In Antihero's case, he spent most of the early part of this game creating fluff. It wasn't until recently that Base started getting on his case that he began to change his tune. I actually think so of his latest posts aren't too bad, except for the fact that it's a clear departure from his earlier playstyle, suggesting somewhat of a call to action, as it were. Especially given the death of City.

[RedCoyote]

RC, who did you think was the fourth vote on you to mean that you were lynched. Also do you have a link to a game either as scum or town where you believed you were lynched when you weren't actually because with there only being four votes needed to be lynched I don't see how you can mistake being lynched or not at all, especially when the day has only been a page or two long making backtracking to check quite easy.

I had forgotten shos' vote. Gosh, I feel like I'm constantly having to play to this damn meta projection on me of being such a pitiful town player, but that said, I'm definitely a believer in calling a spade a spade, at least in a game like Mafia. Otherwise you'll find yourself second guessing every notion you have. So, to answer your question, I had only remembered the most recent VC before making that post, only later going back up to see that shos had changed his vote. I had noticed this before, but it hadn't really registered. I guess because I didn't make a post when I first saw it.

I doubt I'll be able to rustle up something that specific. I don't even know if I'll be able to find that at all, frankly. I'm sure it has happened to me before, but I can't recall when.

Your scumteam connection list seems very spot on and well-researched, but how much stock are you putting into Zar's point on the grey lynch yesterday? Because it is rare that a townie lynch is arrived with no scum help. As rough of a spot that puts me in, I have to acknowledge it. The trouble is, I get strong townreads from both you and shos. You and shos were on all three of the lynch wagons. Zar and I were on two. Majiffy and Antihero on one. What does that tell you? It tells me, frankly, that I'm wrong on one of my townreads between you, shos, and Zar. It tells me that Majiffy and Antihero are likely not scum together.

If I'm picking partnerships, it's (shos/Zar/Baseline) + (Majiffy/Antihero).

My course of action remains the same though, ultimately. We lynch Majiffy. If town, proceed to Antihero. If scum, proceed to the other group. I'm also content with doing the inverse of this (lynching Antihero first), I just think that I'm more likely to be wrong on Antihero than I am on Majiffy.

[RedCoyote]

Because I'm town and you couldn't bare the thought of continuing this game without me?

[RedCoyote]

Is this based on wagon analysis or on their interactions? Because going over Antihero's ISO he can basically a potential partner to almost anyone in this game because his contributions (with the exception of #1090 perhaps) amount to a meager pool of emptiness.

No, I think it will ultimately be only one between them. It's possible that they're both the remaining scum, of course, but if you're acknowledging that, then shouldn't you drop the primary reason you're suspecting me, Zar? Namely, that there has to have been scum on the grey wagon?

Although, come to think of it, I forgot to include Rach in that analysis. Rach, who was actually off every lynch wagon. She's the wild card. She's been phoning it in (justified or not).