Open 470: Cat's Eye (Masons and Mafia)

[Om of the Nom]

VOTE: Venrob
Because yay wagons and also this game is only big enough for one 13 year old >:(

[Om of the Nom]

Anyone who doesn't trust Germans is right by me

OMG buddying.

[Om of the Nom]

Der Hochwürden ist nicht gut. Ich finde seine abstimmen rassistisch zu sein.

[Om of the Nom]

Yeah, Venmar's grasping at straws here and the fact that he had to claim that he was stopping RVS there looks like an attempt to score town points from everyone in the game.
VOTE: Venmar

[Om of the Nom]

If one of the people who hopped on the wagon after Venmar is scum too, then it's DJD.

[Om of the Nom]

Oh you~
But please, why would Reverend be concerned about a quickwagon in RVS as scum? Wouldn't that mean you're implying a Venrob/Reverend/2 other people scumteam? If that's so, why didn't you vote Venrob when he had more votes instead of starting a wagon on Reverend?

[Om of the Nom]

If they're both scum together are you able to determine who the last two scum are?

[Om of the Nom]

For DJD to be scum, I think those on my wagon before him are town.

Venmar could possibly be town but I still think he's scum due to his discrediting of my attack on him. He doesn't even specify which part of my post specifically is grasping at straws, and just addresses nothing in the post.

[Om of the Nom]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: denfloor

Obvious scum is obvious. He lynches someone for rvs, then immediately switches for the bs reason ven said and i echoed. I dont believe that his vote was still rvs after already doing one. Even if it was, two rvs votes is indicative of scummy behaviour due to a lack of hunting and prolonging of rvs stage.

It's not an RVS vote at all. RVS votes are made without reason or with a random reason, non-RVS votes are made with legitiamate reasons, no matter how bad they are.

PEDIT: "Your attack sucked", aka more discrediting on my attack. It's easier to discredit than to defend, and that's what I think you're doing here. It's easier to say that you didn't mean it than to prove you didn't mean it.

[Om of the Nom]

I think om is town. Read based on [ongoing] so I can't elaborate further just yet.

Not knowing which game you're talking about, it's funny that you say that since I thought I was playing like my scum meta (more logical and thought out instead of impulsive and gut based) :V

[Om of the Nom]

But I'm not ready to unvote Reverend quite yet.

Why not? Why do you think he was "over sensitive" about the RVS wagons?

[Om of the Nom]

@OmNom - Why should I defend myself when your attack isn't even accurate, or even aimed at a scum in the first place? What I said wasn't even false, so how does what you said it make it invalid? Sounds a lot like you're trying to discredit my "discredit".

Since you feel like pursuing semi-RVS posts, I will tell you that what I said after my vote was to simply portray myself as a leader, and to obviously try and prevent more RVS. I aimed to start discussion, did I fail? Nah.

But how would I know that you're town? Why are you making it seem like I know you're town when in my shoes I would have no idea? Why are you failing to defend yourself without stating that you're town and that I'm attacking town? You can only seem to come up with bullshit reasons for why my attack on you was stupid, not why it's misinformed or inaccurate.
How would I know that you wanted to be the leader? I pointed out what I saw in the way I thought it was meant, so why is that being attacked when my attacks on you for the same thing are being discredited by you? You're being hypocritical in your thinking, in that you can point out what you see but others can't.

[Om of the Nom]

You never cease to confuse the fuck out of me cheery. I have no idea why you would latch onto this "last to show up" thing to rvs, ignoring everything else thats going on, when a better argument is that he self voted which denies us interactions :/

I haven't decided what to make of the other discussions yet. (which mean if I ever do it will only be to refer back to them later when we're in a different stage of the game, now of those current wagoning reasons sound good enough to join yet.

What's not good enough to join about Venmar's townie point appeal and defenses only valid from his point of view?

[Om of the Nom]

Are you claiming to know he's town?
Thinking he's town doesn't make his defenses valid, they're only valid if you know he's town. Think from my point of view. I don't know he's town, so why are his defenses still valid?

[Om of the Nom]

No, I'd consider a valid defense to be a reasonable defense with proof. Venmar is unable to provide proof since his main defense boils down to him being town, which everyone else wouldn't know.

[Om of the Nom]

Look, I'm not here to argue semantics, just look at Venmar's attack and you'll see he's implying that my attack is bad because he's town. This is the closest we've come to an explained reason for my attacks being bad, everything else just sounds like he's making up shit on the spot.

[Om of the Nom]

I wouldn't actually say you've got the best attack going on either. I believe his reasons for voting Reverend instead of Venrob are valid, I wouldn't have stayed on my RVS wagon if there were votes joining it because someone else said something about it. (I left it anyway)

I never said that explanation wasn't valid, because it is, it's the fact that initially instead of explaining himself he chose to discredit my attack that's scummy.

[Om of the Nom]

You were the other candidate for scum other than Venmar on the Reverend wagon.

[Om of the Nom]

Because Dannflor's didn't sound scummy and yours didn't sound like anything. The reason DJD is more likely than you is because I don't see you hopping on right after Venmar if you're both scum together and also because I got bad gut vibes from DJD.

[Om of the Nom]

He's been playing since May, I think he would be past committing textbook tells by now.

[Om of the Nom]

I didn't know about textbook tells till recently.

Well you're two months younger than Dannflor in site years.

[Om of the Nom]

Basically my case on Venmar is that his initial attack on Reverend looks like he's grasping at straws and he doesn't really fully explain why it's scummy until actually pressured for answers. His comment about ending RVS seems like a weak attempt to get townie points. His choice to discredit my initial attack on him instead of explaining himself or pressing me for an answer looks like a kneejerk scum reaction to try and get the attention on me instead. His constant discrediting of the rest of my attacks are baseless and he hasn't provided a reason for why they are "dumb" except that they're attacks on town, which from anybody's point of view can't be 100% confirmable.

[Om of the Nom]

I honestly forgot we were playing Masons and Mafia lol, I was treating this like normal mafia. I meant it more as a rhetorical question anyway, as if someone would outright claim to know %100 percent that someone else is town.

[Om of the Nom]

Right here it actually looks like you're trying too hard to turn it against me and acting too hard to

hide that you know I am actually town.

EVERY TIME
SCUM DEFENSE
LYNCH THIS MOTHERFUCKER

[Om of the Nom]

KLICK, YOU'RE PROBABLY SCUM ANYWAY BUT HELP ME LYNCH VENMAR

[Om of the Nom]

To be fair, you hadn't posted on-site for 10 days.

[Om of the Nom]

@Om: That's a convincing way to get me to agree with your reads.

Of course now get the fuck on his wagon or I will rape you.

[Om of the Nom]

Sure McStab is scum and all but he can wait.

[Om of the Nom]

Sure McStab is scum and all but he can wait.

Why aren't you voting Mcstab?

Because Venmar is also scum and has a larger wagon.
I mean right now I could go either way and it would be 3 votes but I'm staying on Venmar unless McStab gets another vote.

[Om of the Nom]

Well Klick has to be town since there haven't been any shots yet.
Also greygnarl why the fuck is you vote still on me?

[Om of the Nom]

Well Klick has to be town since there haven't been any shots yet.
Also greygnarl why the fuck is you vote still on me?

Klick knows his meta so that tell is bull. Also y vote's on you just cuz. Are you afraid of it?

No I want reasons you fuck. Why aren't you on Venmar?

[Om of the Nom]

I want Mcstab dead tomorrow though.

Sure~<3

[Om of the Nom]

Cuz I'm waiting? I honestly haven't read teh case on Venmar yet.

Then go do it and stop wasting your vote.

[Om of the Nom]

I agree with this, he did seem excited to play this in the queue, he said it was one of his favorite setups. I don't see how he could just forget.

@om: are you in a lot of games right now?

It took so long for this game to start that I almost forgot about it.
I'm in one other game right now.

[Om of the Nom]

Can someone give me the abridged case on Venmar? I don't see it and considering the main people voting him are part of the Om-Klick-Bitmap voting bloc of not providing rationales, I'm not convinced.

Are you fucking kidding me? I've been going on the Venmar crusade since the beginning and repeated the reasons several times already, I've even got them all collected together nicely in a single post. If you seriously haven't even figured out why the fuck I'm voting for him then I'm not sure if I can even trust that anything you're saying is even decently informed.

[Om of the Nom]

Not going to lie. This is a really good post. I'm going to rethink if you are scum or not.

Bitmap you're being soft.

[Om of the Nom]

It took so long for this game to start that I almost forgot about it.

You were in the queue thread getting whiskers to start the game an hour before the pms were sent out, how did you manage to forget it in that hour?

ADHD TOYS WITH MY MEMORY

[Om of the Nom]

Yes I have I'm seriously not good with memory unless I'm paying full attention to things. Venmar had taken my full attention and I had basically lost memory of everything else.

[Om of the Nom]

Seriously, a key part of ADHD is inattentiveness, and if I can't pay attention then I won't remember things.

[Om of the Nom]

Memory loss includes, but is not limited to:
~Forgetting setups
~Forgetting things said by the person I'm attacking
~Forgetting reasons I attacked someone
And many more.

Seriously, this shit is nothing new for me and the fact that this is the only thing you seem to be voting on right now is not looking good at all.

[Om of the Nom]

Bitmap is lining up lynches, so yeah scum.

I'm lining up lynches too, what's the difference between me and Bitmap doing it?

[Om of the Nom]

Basically my case on Venmar is that his initial attack on Reverend looks like he's grasping at straws and he doesn't really fully explain why it's scummy until actually pressured for answers. His comment about ending RVS seems like a weak attempt to get townie points. His choice to discredit my initial attack on him instead of explaining himself or pressing me for an answer looks like a kneejerk scum reaction to try and get the attention on me instead. His constant discrediting of the rest of my attacks are baseless and he hasn't provided a reason for why they are "dumb" except that they're attacks on town, which from anybody's point of view can't be 100% confirmable.

[Om of the Nom]

Another reason Om is scummy.

So now I'm scummy for multiple reasons and Bitmap is scummy for one reason, yet you fail to move your vote.

I can't tell dumb from scum anymore.

[Om of the Nom]

So let me get this straight:

1. Venmar gets serious and tries to end RVS.
2. Om accuses him of just doing this to look town (which is indistinguishable from someone who is town at this point in the game).
3. Venmar accuses Om of being a hypocrite.
4. Om concludes Venmar is scum for not trying to ask Om things and just discrediting an admittedly bad accusation.

Are you kidding me? This is seriously all you got? If you look hard enough, I actually mention that Venmar's specific mention that he was ending RVS looks like he's posturing for town cred, not that he got serious and tried to end RVS. Venmar actually accusing me of being a hypocrite isn't why he's scummy, it's because that was his first reaction over anything else to do.
If you're going to say I'm making bad cases, at least get the fucking case right.

[Om of the Nom]

So let me get this straight:

1. Venmar gets serious and tries to end RVS.
2. Om accuses him of just doing this to look town (which is indistinguishable from someone who is town at this point in the game).
3. Venmar accuses Om of being a hypocrite.
4. Om concludes Venmar is scum for not trying to ask Om things and just discrediting an admittedly bad accusation.

I don't see what else is available. How can someone press you on points when your argument is literally just "he just is trying to look town by doing those pro-town actions."

Your case is the thinnest case I've ever seen. I don't think Venmar's acting in a very townish manner at all, but your case isn't a good reason to think he's scum, and in fact, your whole argument between the two of you actually could be scum-scum distancing; I just can't believe an argument THAT dumb would crop up between two players.

Also voting at this stage of the day isn't super important. I voted Bitmap before I noticed you were lining up lynches. Then you critique me for not voting you because I'm supposed to what, have a mathematical system in place where once I find more scummy behaviours I keep a tally and vote for the top one? You're scummy, Bitmap's scummy, I don't care which right now, neither of you are imminently about to be lynched. The fact that you're having to resort to saying "WELL THERE I"M DOUBLE SCUMMY SO WHY AREN"T YOU VOTING ME!" is indicative of how shitty your case against me is.

Fact is, Om is coming up with really bad cases. Venmar isn't really acting that obvtown or anything but the case against him from Om sucks. Anyone who has some sort of gutread for Om being town needs to wake up and smell the logic, and realize how ridiculously bad his assertions are.

JUST FUCKING VOTE ME YOU PUSSY

[Om of the Nom]

Vote: TheReverend

Why are you so sensitive about the Venrob vote in the RVS? Someone is way too cautious and trigger happy with his vote...

This is getting serious and ending RVS.

The RVS is now done, I am ending it, hang this scum please.

This is fucking useless filler and posturing for town cred.
You can't be this fucking stupid.

[Om of the Nom]

Or perhaps I should reference Open 438 (another Masons and Mafia setup) where Om, as a mason, manages to get a townie mislynched and himself shot because he doesn't understand how the setup works.

Or how about I should mention that I did the right thing as town in that game by calling out a fucking fakeclaim.

[Om of the Nom]

@Mod replace me

The only reason I wanted to play this game was Whiskers as a mod.

[Om of the Nom]

Sorry for replacing out, every once in a while I just blow up for no reason.
I take pride in being completely right about Venmar and McStab.
Mala you made me proud.
Scum's best players died early and the rest just got killed off by the town.

[Om of the Nom]

I was expected to be shot on suspect of being a mason due to my defending of dannflor but I guess not :\

[Om of the Nom]

There is literally no reason I would ever replace out like that in a game as scum. As Bitmap said that should basically be an instant confirmed townie status for my slot.

[Om of the Nom]

Just so we all know, I've seen Om ragequit twice

as scum

before this game. I don't know how it's supposed to confirm his alignment.

I don't remember this happening once, let alone twice. Which games are you talking about?

[Om of the Nom]

That wasn't a rage quit that was a no motivation quit that wasn't even alignment related since I replaced out of two other games at the same time for the same reason.

[Om of the Nom]

Yeah Venrob was all over the place this game and I had seriously no idea what the fuck he was trying to do.

[Om of the Nom]

The fake Mason softclaim was so obviously fake. Then again, you shouldn't always disbelive a Mason claim from an inexperienced player.