Open 487: Hard Boiled Day 3: A sinister Murder

[Nekoko]

I thought Hiders aren't viable targets for night actions.

The Role PM only says night kills will not affect you if you were targeted while hiding.
Liking Mathdino for now as I wouldn't have thought of the tracker and hider strategy.

---

I think I'm 100% sure that tracker should be chosen (and everyone should).
1. The hider can be killed if he tried to confirm the vigilante
2. The vigilante, if not experienced, will do more harm than good
3. If the detective was chosen, he can falsely accuse the vigilante as scum.
Second, if it's not clear that a tracker was surely picked, a scum that was
targeted by detective can just claim he's a vigilante and now the real tracker
should probably counter claim.

The reason why everyone should say that a tracker must be chosen is because
of #3. Mafia outed by detective can just say he's vig and say on day 1 he did
not ignore the possibility of choosing vig unlike some people
(assuming the tracker did not claim yet).

The only reason vig should be chosen if he's unfortunately about to be lynched
so that he can use his night action one last time.

---

Not liking this opportunism on a discussion of theory. I think Piratecat's stance is pretty clearly laid out.

I think he's not necessarily being opportunistic. I think his vote has merit.
Scum hunting never stops. And besides, at least the random voting stage is over.

Because as much as much as possible I vote someone who I feel is suspicious, I'll probably vote Piratecat.
I'll unvote when he clearly states that tracker should always be chosen and vig should only
be chosen if the PR was unfortunately about to be lynched OR unless someone could come
up with a compelling reason why vig should be used.

VOTE: Piratecat

[Nekoko]

Vote Order:

Mathdino -> Freshmaniscoolman(1)
freezing-hell -> mathdino (1)
starttransmission -> Larry David (1)
RachMarie -> Freshmaniscoolman(2)
Leafsw0rd -> MrERoll(1)
Larry David -> Voodoo Lady (1)
Piratecat -> RachMarie(1)
Voodoo Lady -> Larry David (2)
frezzing-hell -> mathdino(0) Piratecat(1)
Nekoko -> Piratecat(2)

[Nekoko]

wth in just 1 day, there's already 5 new pages

Good to see you too Neko.

Hey RachMarie

So Nek, what have I done that is suspicious? Am I not allowed to give my thoughts on the issue at hand? In case you haven't noticed.. Others have to, but you target me with a vote. Can only guess because I currently have another vote on me.

I find that your accusation on us to be hilariously poetic and...wonderfully ironic. you following a bad vote that had bad reasoning while padding the original bad reasons looks pretty opportunistic to me.

You have piqued my interest because I thought scum would subtly try to suggest to deviate from Mathdino's strategy.
If you were scum and then detective/psychologist got a positive result from you,
you claim as vigilante and try to defend that you didn't actually brushed offed the possibility of getting a vig.
Anyway since you're fortunately the hider, I won't waste time voting you.
Also it's also a good thing because I find it hard to read hydras.

UNVOTE: Piratecat

@Mathdino: Orci's acting pretty much the same as he did last game, and he was town then.

@Voodoo: Psych is pretty useful D1 and its usefulness later on will either stay the same or diminish based on whether mafia keep sending the same person or switch things up.

Oh right, there's more than one mafia member. I'm stupid, sorry.

Contrived attempt to drop a town-slip.

Agreed. This feels a little bit forced.

I took a glance at Nek's games and I just got some really odd mixed feelings regarding her. Going to have Mollie take a look and I will take an even closer look sometime soonish. The game you referenced - she only posted a few times before the game ended. To me; I always see a difference in meta when someone replaces into a game whereas someone starting from Day open to end.

I can gladly show you the links for my games if you want.
So far I've completed two games as town, and four games as scum.
That game isn't a good reference as I was busy at that time.

I definitely think it’s scummy to put serious votes before reading the entire thread.

It's anti-town but even town does that (already witnessed it actually)

So what if he doesn't state that? What will happen then with your vote on Piratecat?

Because if he's scum and he was out by the psychologist/detective

Wanted to see how people would react to that. Plus, PirateCat didn't go in some extreme defense mode. He still posed questions to others as well.

Definitely finding this suspicious. I think FH backpedaled from his vote when a couple of people expressed concern on his vote.
Instead of defending his vote, he nonchalantly said he was just testing for reactions. lol I hate that defense.

So what if he doesn't state that? What will happen then with your vote on Piratecat?

Basically if scum was outed by the psychologist/detective, they will have the option to role-claim as vigilante.
I already said why I don't like that. It was still page 1, RVS was over, so I think PirateCat was the most suspicious at that time.
All I want is for her to definitely say that Tracker > Vigilante and Vigilante should only be chosen if he is about to be lynched.
Anyway if everyone agrees with that strategy, we can just lynch everyone who claims as vigilante
if they're outed by the psychologist/detective as they're more likely be scum.
This is the reason why I found merit in your vote but it seems you have a different intention with your vote...

Nekoko is trying to give us data to work with as well, so she's a little less scummy.

lol if you're referring to the vote order I posted then this is a terrible read
I may find it useful so what' the harm in sharing it so that the vote order becomes clearer to everyone.
I've done this as town, as scum I might still do it. So at best it's a null read.

Neko's post seems more of a town following the only suspicion. Yours, however, reeks of jumping on something that's not even scummy. I don't like how you backpedal and claim you were reaction fishing and getting the ball rolling at all. So to respond in two words:

Good thing someone noted this. I also find it suspicious that it seems he's trying
to direct the suspicion to me after unvoting. It feels very opportunistic

"PirateCat is suspicious because she put forward an argument that possibly promotes sub-optimal play with a vigi, instead of a tracker." ??

Yes and I know it was a good vote especially since we were still on page 1 at that time. So what's your point here?

Nekoko, defend or justify your position in calling Piratecat scum.

I've probably posted my reason above. Also, I did not call her scum.
I cannot possibly know who the scum are but I can at least start with someone I found the most suspicious.
I'm not a fan of FOSs and I'm not a fan of not voting someone so I voted her.

can I just say that Molliecat is obviously town this game?

because they're the hider

[Nekoko]

Also I like her vote orders and want them to continue.

Page 1:
Mathdino -> Freshmaniscoolman(1)
freezing-hell -> mathdino (1)
startransmission -> Larry David (1)
RachMarie -> Freshmaniscoolman(2)
Leafsw0rd -> Mr E Roll(1)
Larry David -> Voodoo Lady (1)
Piratecat -> RachMarie(1)
Voodoo Lady -> Larry David (2)
frezzing-hell ->

-mathdino(0)

Piratecat(1)
Nekoko -> Piratecat(2)

Page 2:
orcinus_theoriginal -> orcinus_theoriginal(1)
orcinus_theoriginal ->

-orcinus_theoriginal(0)

rachmarie(1)
Mathdino ->

-Freshmaniscoolman(1)

orcinus_theoriginal -> mathdino(1)
Mathdino -> orcinus_theoriginal(1)
Piratecat ->

-RachMarie(0)

Mathdino ->

-orcinus_theoriginal(0)

Page 3:
orcinus_theoriginal -> Voodoo Lady(2)
Mr E Roll -> orcinus_theoriginal(1)

Page 4:
orcinus_theoriginal -> Mr E Roll(2)
frezzing-hell ->

-Piratecat(1)

Mathdino -> freezing-hell(1)

Page 6:
Mr E Roll ->

-orcinus_theoriginal(0)

freezing-hell(2)
startransmission -> freezing-hell(3)
startransmission ->

-Larry David(1)

Page 7:
Nekoko ->

-Piratecat(0)

freezing-hell(4)

[Nekoko]

Forgot about my vote

VOTE: freezing-hell

[Nekoko]

As for moving my RVS vote, I am starting to have some concerns about FH he is not playing like he did in our Newbie game... But I still need to peg everyone and I am still working on that.

I'm assuming he was town when you played together. What exactly was different in play right now?

---

Page 1:
Mathdino -> Freshmaniscoolman(1)
freezing-hell -> mathdino (1)
startransmission -> Larry David (1)
RachMarie -> freezing-hell(1)
Leafsw0rd -> Mr E Roll(1)
Larry David -> Voodoo Lady (1)
Piratecat -> RachMarie(1)
Voodoo Lady -> Larry David (2)
frezzing-hell ->

-mathdino(0)

Piratecat(1)
Nekoko -> Piratecat(2)

Page 2:
orcinus_theoriginal -> orcinus_theoriginal(1)
orcinus_theoriginal ->

-orcinus_theoriginal(0)

rachmarie(1)
Mathdino ->

-Freshmaniscoolman(0)

orcinus_theoriginal -> mathdino(1)
Mathdino -> orcinus_theoriginal(1)
Piratecat ->

-RachMarie(0)

Mathdino ->

-orcinus_theoriginal(0)

Page 3:
orcinus_theoriginal -> Voodoo Lady(2)
Mr E Roll -> orcinus_theoriginal(1)

Page 4:
orcinus_theoriginal -> Mr E Roll(2)
frezzing-hell ->

-Piratecat(1)

Mathdino -> freezing-hell(2)

Page 6:
Mr E Roll ->

-orcinus_theoriginal(0)

freezing-hell(3)
startransmission -> freezing-hell(4)
startransmission ->

-Larry David(1)

Page 7:
Nekoko ->

-Piratecat(0)

freezing-hell(5) L-2

[Nekoko]

I'm not, I'm just annoyed with it.

Nah that's bullshit you're using the slightest reason to sling mud on someone

But maybe if you bus mystery I won't lynch you today

Honestly I'm not seeing it like the way you see it

Anyway is mystery = Mr E Roll? Well I'm assuming he's the one you're referring to.

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=50&t=21452 Newbie 1221

The game where I played with FH before. In that game though he was very new, he was more aggressive in his play. There was no hanging back and he got right into the game. Very different from his play here. I am kinda liking my vote where it is ATM.

Well it does seem that he was more aggressive in that game in contrast with here so I agree with you.

Almost every game I’ve played a town player steps into a pile of shit early on day one and can’t shake the stink off. This game it seems to be me.

unvote

VOTE: freezing_hell

The choice seems to be coming down to between you and me. I’m not sure if you are in the same boat as me where you just can’t get past the bad vibes generated from a bad vote or if you are scum, and truthfully at this point it almost doesn’t matter. From my POV I’m conftown and you aren’t.

Okay I think Mr E Roll is my top scum read right now

UNVOTE: Freezing Town
VOTE: Mr E Roll

This is suspicious. Mr E Roll thinks it will be a 1v1 battle between the two .
It looks like he is nervous scum here. It's weird because Mr E Roll has only
2 votes and the last vote was from Freezing Hell.

Also, I always think it's scummy when I see this phrase "from my POV I’m conftown and you aren’t"

I still suspect FH so I'll keep an eye on him

---

Getting to all of it, combing through everything at the moment. I'll go player by player.

Are you supposed to post some reads for each player or something?
Well I assume that because you had a post for Leafsword with some special design or something.
When will you post about other players because it will look like
you're buddying Leafsword if he's the only you're going to talk about.

I'll keep it short for now, have to run and won't have a lot of time till later this evening. Neko, I'm so sorry for calling you 'him'. Kind of slips in I'll try to be more aware of it.

lol okay

A late day counterclaim would've been suicide for the scum, and it'd basically give us a confirmed scum. All the tracker would have to do is track one to find out which one's the real hider and which one's scum. Better to hold off on giving info to the scum until later in the day, but I guess that's not happening.

A counterclaim by scum on day 1 is probably unlikely especially if no one from the scum team
knows about the hider-tracker strategy (so they didn't come up with a brilliant strategy to counter it).

orc-RachMarie happen to be close buddies I think. Or maybe even scumbuddies?

Can you elaborate why you think they could be scumbuddies?
Also I thought association tells are terrible before any scum flips

ATM You're one of my strongest Town reads. You actually make sense. I agree with almost everything you've said.

Are you referring to hp or leaf?

[Nekoko]

MOD: I'll be in V/LA until Monday morning.

[Nekoko]

I mean Sunday night in this forum's time

[Nekoko]

Orci started off the game real good, didn't do much outside of his Meta which is a good thing to learn how to do as scum

You can't use this reason to find someone scummy.
This is a null tell because either alignment could exhibit this.

what I found peculiar though was the fact that he was asking for reads without necessarily giving thought to the ones he threw out.

I disagree completely. Scum would be more cautious therefore they would really be giving thought to their reads.

bolded is something Hider can do hidden, or something the Hider can do claimed the second day. not the first. ST and leafswords, I said I thought they scum read you, meaning it came from memory. memory can be faulty.

lolwat. We discussed that it's best if the hider claims on D1 so that the tracker can track him

lol, FH has a read on me? Since when, I don't remember anything original coming from him, I'll Iso him tomorrow. I'll also answer what exactly has been misinterpreted tomorrow as well.

someone skipped FH's reads

UNVOTE: Mr E Roll
VOTE: Marangal

L-2

You are withholding your reads which is very important for the town to scum hunt
and also for town to detect whether a player's reads feel forced and manufactured.
Also I don't like how Marangal lied that she thinks Orc is scum in the guise of reaction testing.
This destroys her credibility from me in this game. The next thing you know is that his town
reads are actually fake and they're for reaction testing.

Witholding reads is just as Anti-town as set-up speculation

I'm doubt I'm going to be lynched, if I do happen to be lynched I'll share, but at this time Sharing who I believe to be town would make my scum hunting that much more inefficient. how is not sharing my reads make me scum? the "if your town statements" are retarded and they are mainly scum utilized. I'm not going to share my reads until I see the need to, I'm not going to give mafia a bigger advantage then needed

wut

no Leaf, I don't want to lynch orc because of his lie, I have many other reasons for wanting him lynched. I don't see anything wrong with lying personally. Orc is the one who finds lying to be a scum-tell and he is the one who pushed the "lie" to get me lynched then Lied almost immediately after. if you want to call someone out for hypocrisy, again, it's Orc.

If what you mean by orc's lie is that he said you're at L-1, that's lame

---

Post #384 feels like an attempt to defend Marangal. Eitherway if Marangal flips town or scum, Rach should be lynched next.
If Marangal is town, I think Rach Marie is acting like a White Knight to get town cred.

It feels that Rach Marie is hunting for easier targets like FH (because he was previously suspected),
Mr E (also suspected earlier and is inactive), and hp [leaves]. She's preparing a reason to vote MM.

Also Rach Marie voted hp [leaves] so both hp and Marangal has 3 votes so probably she is expecting
that others will join hp's wagon because she thinks it's also an appealing wagon.

Another thing...

players RachMarie gave a read

Mr E Roll - as scum # 2
jon_h61

Voodoo Lady

- seems pretty towny
Piratecat - obviously town
Ms Marangal - town !
orcinus_theoriginal - town
freezing-hell - gut feel leaning scum
hp [leaves] Larry David - as scum # 1
Human Destroyer Freshmaniscoolman - of course he hasn't posted anything
startransmission - as leaning town
Mathdino - as probably town
Nekoko - lol why not me
Leafsw0rd - as town

I find this suspicious. I think this early, RachMarie is trying to pin me whenever she flips scum.

wait that is not good enough... we can't be sure we will have a twilight, depends on if the mod gets on right after we hammer or not.

You just shot way up on my scumdar with that MM seriously...

You need to share your reads BEFORE you are hammered not after.

At this point MM has 4 votes and hp [leaves] have 2 votes
so Rach Marie is preparing for the inevitable.

That's fair enough, I suppose. I just find meta to be a terrible indicator of alignment, and using it as a defense (which is what you were doing) is absurd. In my opinion.

What I found interesting is that RachMarie uses meta all the time to explain his suspicions and to explain his town read on someone...

---

I'm assuming startransmission is just very busy at work and he tried to read everything which explains why he may have faulty reads.
Also I'm assuming Human Destroyer is still in the first few pages of the game which explains why he thinks MM is town and he quotes MM's early post.

So I think orc, dino, leaf, piratecat, jon, and fh are town.

I've come to like FH and think he's town now.

So now it's Miss Marangal < Rach Marie < Mr E Roll/hp [leaves]/Human Destroyer/startransmission

---

Unofficial Vote Count

hp [leaves]: startransmission, Rach Marie
freezing-hell: Mr E Roll
Mr E Roll:
Ms. Marangal: orcinus_theoriginal, jon_h61, freezing-hell, Leafsw0rd, Nekoko

L-2

orcinus_theoriginal: Ms Marangal
startransmission: Piratecat
Nekoko: Human Destroyer

Not Voting: Mathdino, hp [leaves]

MOD: Mr. E Roll needs to be replaced. He is like a week gone from the game

[Nekoko]

LOL Neko I thought I already did a rtead on you early on? I felt you were likely to be town and still kinda do though I wish you would post more.

Your last read on me was on Post 201 which is way way back.
Also your town read on me is based on meta

yeah I use meta a lot but why are you posting a quote from Star and talking about me? Could you clarify that?

It reminds me of you.

[Nekoko]

I'm also not here for credibility, I could care less if people actually cared about me or cared about my alignment, I'm here to hunt scum not to be nice to people so that they will agree with me.

wth if you're not credible how can you convince anyone to vote for someone you think is scum

[Nekoko]

UNVOTE: Nekoko
VOTE: Rach Marie

Okay I really think Rach Marie is scum especially
suddenly appearing to say she wants to hammer
This explains why she thinks MM was town even though
objectively speaking she was acting scummy

1) she's not being specific (e.g. post #201 Mr E Roll is one of my suspects because s
2) some posts were like "IC" posts where she just explains theory or something
3) uses mostly meta

Why lynch Rach and then vig me? Because that gets rid of one scum in Rach. If I’m lynched MsM has declared she won’t vig Rach and I’m not seeing my scumspects in her expressed pool of targets.

This is actually sensible. Hate to QFT the main suspect. E Roll is def getting vigged, let's focus on the non-obvobvscum.

QFT x2

---

Unofficial Vote Count

:
Mr E Roll: Ms Marangal, hp [leaves], Human Destroyer, Leafsw0rd, jon_h61, Mathdino

L-1

hp [leaves]: nopointinactingup, Rach Marie, freezing-hell
Rachmarie: Mr E Roll, orcinus_theoriginal, Nekoko
Nekoko: Piratecat

[Nekoko]

Unofficial Vote Count:

Mr E Roll: Ms Marangal, hp [leaves], Human Destroyer, Leafsw0rd, jon_h61, Mathdino L-1
hp [leaves]: nopointinactingup, Rach Marie
Rachmarie: Mr E Roll, orcinus_theoriginal, Nekoko, freezing-hell
Nekoko: Piratecat

[Nekoko]

No, my strongest scumread is E Roll. The problem is if we lynch E Roll, HP's getting vigged. If we lynch Rach, E Roll gets vigged. It's the choice between one scum and two scum dying.

So it's E Roll > HP > Rach Marie for you?

[Nekoko]

Then vote Rach so when she flips scum, E Roll will be vigged

[Nekoko]

Why lynch Rach over Orc? They are both scum doesn’t matter to me which one gets lynched first.

Come to think of it, if Rach is scum, it is very unlikely that Mr E Roll is also scum.
Maybe if Rach is town, hp should be vigged?

[Nekoko]

Whats wrong with meta I always use meta when I am scum hunting Neko...

Because when I'm reading your posts, a lot of it is you're reading people based on their meta which is
sometimes unreliable and I'm inclined to think that it's easier for scum to do it.
But yeah sorry I didn't see you as town and it has come to this

I still have nothing against her vote on PC. 167, however, is nothing but defence and agreeing with what's already been said, but making a wall of it to look helpful.

So is this supposed to be scummy?

To favor your bias that I'm scum, of course you would think that I maliciously planned to post a wall to appear townie
Whether I posted a wall or not doesn't indicate whether I'm townie or not. And please let's be honest, in just a span of
one day, about a hundred new posts were added so of course I'm more inclined to post longer. And also since a lot
has already been said, of course if I have something in mind, it's mostly like said by another person.

276 is once again, restating things already gone over 70 posts ago, except putting a vote on it. However once things started to shift, once it became clear that going after E Roll wasn't gonna get more towncred

Oh so you're implying that since I posted late and got the same reaction like Leafsw0rd, I mindlessly copied him? And now you're downplaying the importance of my vote?
Mr E Roll is slipping under the radar because hp [leaves] distracted everyone after his entrance to the game.

she randomly switches to the next trendy wagon, that of Marangal.

Mr E Roll was gone for 6 days, and there's no way he'll be lynched. Parking my vote on Mr E Roll would be a waste of my vote.

And you're accusing me of switching my vote just because it was the "trendy" vote.
In the first place, why was it "trendy?" Because Marangal was acting scummy!
Even you said this...

>Realises that a specific claim makes Marangal scummier
>Checks ISO
>Realises Marangal is way scummier than I thought...
>Reads thread closer this time

Sorry, that's me being a little frustrated with not reading the thread closely enough. I don't mean to be rude but I do hope you're VT (vanilla townie) and draw the NK tonight. Your reads are typically good but your playstyle is just so friggin scummy... and the thoughts on theory don't help.

Note that in the same post, she starts speculating on who to lynch if Marangal is town, which makes no sense if she's trying to take out Marangal today.

This is problem when your doing an ISO. The context gets lost

If MsM flips scum, then I want RachMarie following her D2.

And of course, you are never sure whether a player is 100% town or scum unless you are scum.
You will have to account for that. And also the point there is that I think RachMarie is
scum regardless of Marangal's alignment.

OH LOOK. More agreement and restatement of points against Rach! All this wagon hopping partially helped to out both our PRs on D1, well done Nekoko!

Congrats too Mathdino! You're talking as if you didn't vote RachMarie too but the difference is that I find her scummy earlier than you.

I'd like to note that Nekoko's vote orders (which I actually did like) stopped right before her second vote hop. Perhaps because it would incriminate her more?

I was discouraged because people hate it and I found out that I have mistakes in my vote order so I got lazy. Check the first vote order I posted, I made a mistake there.
But yeah, what's funny is that if you are biased that someone is scum, everything he does is scummy (lol even discontinuing the vote order looks malicious)

Then there's also the matter of Nekoko's total indecisiveness and long list of scumreads, something i see as more scum than town.

what instances where I was indecisive?
and long list of scumreads? that's ridiculous if this is what you mean

So now it's Miss Marangal < Rach Marie < Mr E Roll/hp [leaves]/Human Destroyer/startransmission

Going off of what FH said above, check out this, where Neko completely changes her mind on vigging E Roll, instead asking to vig HP. Not liking this at all, and I think it's indicative of an E Roll/Neko team.

Because it makes more sense that they're not scum buddies? Honestly you're unreasonable if you didn't see that.

I am seriously doubting my Town read.... She has been not posting nearly as much as she did in the game we were in together, plus that vote on me just seems so fishy to me...

It appears that I'm less active here than before because more people are actively posting here.
You see if I post every day but there's like 20+ new posts each time I come here, it would look like I'm not saying much.
Compare this game and the game where I played with you. Sometimes I only post every two days but it appears that I talk more
because there are only few people talking.

Another thing, look at this game when I was scum. Behold the walls.

As a side note: lol at least in this game, you won't be lynched even though you claimed

---

UNVOTE: RachMarie
VOTE: Mr E Roll

Unofficial Vote Count:

hp [leaves]: Rach Marie
Nekoko: freezing-hell, Piratecat, Mathdino
Mr E Roll: Ms Marangal, hp [leaves], Human Destroyer, Leafsw0rd, jon_h61
Rach Marie: Mr E Roll, orcinus_theoriginal, Nekoko

Not Voting: nopointinactingup

[Nekoko]

Unofficial Vote Count:
hp [leaves]: Rach Marie
Nekoko: freezing-hell, Piratecat, Mathdino
Mr E Roll: Ms Marangal, hp [leaves], Human Destroyer, Leafsw0rd, jon_h61, Nekoko

L-1

Rach Marie: Mr E Roll, orcinus_theoriginal

Not Voting: nopointinactingup

[Nekoko]

Meh I'm expecting Human Destroyer and Marangal to switch his vote to me.
If Mr E Roll's get's lynched first, I'll still be vigged. I guess I'm done in this game

After I flip town, orc seems suspicious because he was all the time telling everyone that I'm town.
If Mr E Roll flips scum, there's a possibility that MathDino is his partner

[Nekoko]

Cool! Marangal is a liar

VOTE: Ms Marangal

[Nekoko]

unconfirmed:
Mr E Roll
jon_h61
orcinus_theoriginal
freezing-hell
Human Destroyer
nopointinactingup
Nekoko

confirmed:
Leafsw0rd
Piratecat
RachMarie

I'm thinking of a strategy...

What if RachMarie announces who she will investigate. For example she will investigate Mr E Roll.
Then Pirate Cat's pool of players to "investigate" will decrease by one (now be 6).

If in the unfortunate event that Pirate Cat hides with the mafia and she is killed,
in this case Mr E Roll will be confirmed town because he was outside the pool
of players Pirate Cat would investigate.

If Pirate Cat survives, then Mr E Roll is still a suspect.

I think the advantage here is that we would get one confirmed townie even if Pirate Cat hides with a mafia.

What say you guys?

[Nekoko]

UNVOTE: Ms Marangal

I'll wait for the other people to decide. Marangal might self-hammer

[Nekoko]

she's now at L-2

[Nekoko]

...?

Is this only a one night plan or is this the whole game because I seriously doubt PRs are going to remain alive very long?

It's supposed to be a one night plan because RachMarie will probably die tonight but PC disagrees with the plan

[Nekoko]

The assumption there is the Rach Marie will be killed tonight which is very likely.

Let's suppose we don't follow the strategy:
Pirate Cat hides with a town -> That's good because we now have 6 unconfirmed players left.
Pirate Cat hides with a mafia -> We get 7 unconfirmed players left.

Let's suppose we follow my strategy:
Pirate Cat hides with a town -> That's good because we now have 6 unconfirmed players left.
Pirate Cat hides with a mafia -> That's good because we still have 6 unconfirmed players left.

IF Rach Marie wasn't targeted:
Pirate Cat and the player PC hid with -> We have 5 unconfirmed players left: the unconfirmed player PC hid with and the one Rach Marie targeted
Everyone else -> 4-5 uncofirmed players left: 4 if the mafia tried to kill Leafsw0rd

[Nekoko]

If Rach Marie targets the more likely scum player and PC picks the other unconfirmed players,
then it is unlikely PC will be killed from hiding with scum. IF PC hid with a mafia player,
at least Rach Marie's choice is confirmed town

[Nekoko]

Wait, why do we have 6 unconfirmed if Rach dies? She can't announce her results if she's dead

Because PC confirms one unconfirmed player each time PC survives the night

[Nekoko]

1> If scum kills Rach, then it doesn't matter whoever she targets because she can't get the results in

This happens with either strategy...

or if the scum is more cunning he/she could do no kill and frame someone else, which is obviously something orc never thought about.

This is so wrong...

Then Rach Marie is still alive and she will confirm one player
If PC isn't dead, she'll confirm another player then that's two new confirmed players

2> If scum tries to target PC instead, he/she would have small chance of succeeding UNLESS we help him by announcing targets. If PC announces target, then the scum would obviously go for PC. In that case, we still are still trading 1 investigative PR for another

What's the difference if the pool is instead 7 players, it's now 6 players?
We're not even going to dictate who among the 6 unconfirmed players PC should investigate.
That's why Rach Marie should target the most scummy player so that if she's not killed, then we can now confirm the most scummy player.
Also by targeting the most scummy player, PC will be "protected", because the pool has lesser chance of having the mafia.

[Nekoko]

I knew there's something scummy with HD especially with how she thinks Marangal was town
but I couldn't just suspect him or else it would look like an OMGUS

VOTE: Human Destroyer

[Nekoko]

huzzah town winsss

[Nekoko]

tip #1: sheep orc if he's town

[Nekoko]

hey sorry Rach for suspecting you
this reminds me of the time you were IC and everyone thinks you're scummy

[Nekoko]

well he got it right in the first game I've played with him
and he guessed that hp and Marangal are scum hahaha

[Nekoko]

well he thinks I'm town so that's plus points LOL

[Nekoko]

don't worry about how you look as town

playing cautiously will get you mislynched

I have a history of suspecting players that attack me first so I'm also trying to avoid that