Open 484 - DDU - Game over

[Voidedmafia]

Terrible, mallow.

Vote: Mallow

[Voidedmafia]

Vote: Mallow

Asking about the setup looks more like a cheap way to appear innocent. Mallow saw the same signup thread we all did, and should have looked up the rules.

I approve.

Vote: Mallow

Asking about the setup looks more like a cheap way to appear innocent. Mallow saw the same signup thread we all did, and should have looked up the rules.

Vote Paschendale

for foiling my plan

Scum, folks.

[Voidedmafia]

We do have two lynches each day, mind. I still wouldn't advocate quicklynching, but for day 1 pt.1 we can at least put a flip to practical use immediately.

[Voidedmafia]

Amethyst: that's...gonna be weird...

[Voidedmafia]

Quick lynching doesn't solve anything. That just sounds awful to me.

Hello fos...

I just SAID we shouldn't qiucklynch. lrn2read. <_<

good question, btw, Bo.

[Voidedmafia]

Why no vote on Voided?

I said I was done with the random voting stage

implying you weren't serious in 24?

[Voidedmafia]

I don't wanna vote yet. I need time to get reads.

Already had one, didn't ya?

PS, answer my question in 26.

mallows first answer looked fine to me.

It doesn't really answer his question.

"You have (honest) suspicion on Voided, it seems. Why not vote him?"

"I don't want to RVS!"

Plus it sounds like he's backtracking off his read on me.

[Voidedmafia]

My 27, sorry. It was around there.

And I meant he already had a read on me that looked at least semi-serious. So why not vote me for it?

[Voidedmafia]

does bo know he's scum? or is he always like this?

This is terrible and you should feel terrible for saying that.

[Voidedmafia]

Do you mean if you voted Voided at the time you put FOS on him, we would jump on you?

Or that if you voted Voided

at this moment

, we would jump on you?

If I did at this moment

Still ignoring post 27...

[Voidedmafia]

What about this post do you want me to answer?

35! POST 35!

Dammit, I can't find anything <_<

[quote="In [url=http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?p=4815732#

[Voidedmafia]

eh? dafuq?

...dammit, MS.

Anyways, since i'm not quoting that again:

1.) Bo, I was saying that him using your name like that was terrible. That wasn't an opinion on his view of you. (if you want my view, then it's slightly town).
2.) You can't OMGUS me if I'm not even voting you, so.

[Voidedmafia]

jumps on me in the RVS stage when I joked that Paschendale votes for me, also buddying with Paschendale in post 17 (maybe not exactly buddying, but it looks like more like maybe a more like a friend that you've known for a week in a chem class and that's the only person you know so you try to become better friends with them). And I just read your post, I swear you said TO QUICKLYNCH. I misread this post but you tried to pull a case on me out of that.

Context, context, context is everything.

Yeah, I said "quicklynch". If you read that post, I said that "I still

wouldn't

quicklynch" aka that I wasn't a proponent of doing so. To claim otherwise indicates a lack of reading on your part as well as a misrep.

Also, as it's been said, misrep or not you had a less-than-joking reason to vote me for seemingly thinking that quicklynching was okay, yet you still held your vote close to your chest There was very little reason to not vote me at the time (aforementioned non-joking reason, I wasn't at L-1), so the fact that you didn't looks suspicious.

Of course, there's the slight thing about you getting defensive for us questioning your lack of vote. Your reaction, while understandable to a degree, doesn't look like the defensiveness a townie would have. And your insistence that you need reads doesn't jive with the fact that, according to post 24, you already had A read that you go off of.

So, why does it make you look scummy? Because I don't see this coming from cautious town, and it makes more sense coming from cautious scum.

In other news, Cheonan pings me badly in an annoying way that I need to look at soon-ish.

[Voidedmafia]

so, you just admitted to a scum slip?

...Really, what scumslip?

I see a forgot-how-many-games-I-have-slip, sure, but not a scumslip.

Sell me, Mr. and Mrs.

Someone string Mallow the hell up.

IMpatient, are we?

vote:voidedmafia

moving along...

Moving along without any reason why you're voting me? I think not.

'Specially since the only time you mentioned me was when you RVS'd, so...Reasons or gtfo, kthnxbai.

Voided is buddying everyone so that makes sense he'd chime in.

If I agree, I'll usually come and say I agree. Problems?

as for voided, I'm looking at him carefully

I'm on a plain, look away.

Skip suspecting cheo, don looks sketchy with that sudden vote onto me.

[Voidedmafia]

Meh...I guess I can see that. I just don't think it warrants a hammer if that's the only reason you think Mallow's scum.

I agree.

Vote: Don Johnson

Shoulda done this earlier.

[Voidedmafia]

I was talking about Amethyst. Not Don. Unless your vote has nothing to do with my last post.

The vote and my agreement are two different things, yes.

Because quickhammering is so underrated.

Wait, wut?

^^ here voided is trying to discredit mallow by saying mallow has taken something out of context. this is never explained. imo, the words "context context context" are kind of like a smoke screen, or a meer puff of smoke emanating from the magicians cuff to distract your gaze at the start of a trick.

Says this part is never explained.

Breaks down part of the post that was put towards explaining how mallow took what I said out of context.

If you wanna say I'm laying things thick here, that's fine, but don't start saying I'm "smoke screening" things when I'm actually not.

^^ here is where voided should be discussing the "context", but what he is really doing is pointing out a misunderstanding. but instead of using the word "misunderstanding", voided not only ad homs with criticism of mallows reading skills, but he pushes the idea of a "misrep". "misrep" is when a player deliberatley or no, misrepresents what another player said. but there is no misrep. only a misunderstanding as evidenced by this:

It's still a contextual thing because mallow only saw "QUICKLYNCH" (in his own words) and apparantly didn't read everything else around the word. That's missing the context of what I said, and it's still a misrep of my actual point.

^^ mallow has admitted here to misreading the post. and mallows accusation has nothing to do with the misunderstanding, but the fact that voided has "pulled a case on me out of that." voided is shifting the argument from what mallow has accused him of, to something much easier to explain away as "misrep". there can be no misrep if mallow acknowledges the "context". which he obviously does at this point.

Just because he acknowledges it as a misunderstanding much after the fact doesn't necessarily make the action beforehand any less scummy or misrep-y. It just means that, at the very least, he saw his mistake. At the end of the day, he still construed my point as being that I would quicklynch to solve problems, and that's still a misrep.

As for the "pulled a case on [mallow] out of that" part, I was remiss in not addressing that, so I apologize. however, I was not the one who originally called mallow scummy for not voting me, though I did agree that what occurred was suspect. Furthermore, mallow's replies to Bo's and my comments to his 24 were suspect, and why this is so has been laid out already on page 2.

^^ here he's using a "damned if you do/damned if you don't" argument to cover his ass. this way, he can persist in his suspicion of mallow regardless of mallow's response.

We rightfully questioned him on the lack of a vote on me for thinking I was advocating a quicklynch (which should be a votable offense). The lack of doing such is at the very least weird and at most very suspicious, so how are we wrong in asking and pressuring him about the lack of a vote.

Of course, by the time mallow properly addressed this it would've been at the point that voting me could've been seen as trying to appease those of us who were pushing him, so I'm aware of the catch-22. But why is it suddenly my fault that, through his own inaction, the situation came up in the first place? If he had voted me in post 24 there would be no catch-22 situation (though I imagine the discussion over the next couple of pages would've been entirely different).

and here ^^ voided arbitrarily decides that what he considers acceptable townie behavior(as evidenced by what i bolded) is scummy as well, and in this particular case, voided says the behavior is scummy but offers no real evidence to that fact. post 24 is just mallow excercising caution. which is the main thrust of the case against him. but i point out, that mallows "caution" has been consistent. as someone earlier pointed out, this behavior is not inherently scummy.

First off, where the hell is the part you "bolded"? I see no bold in your post at all.

Secondly, my point here is that while him getting defensive is a natural reaction as either alignment, his defense does not look like cautious town or someone who isn't willing to properly move without the required amount of info, but like scum who got caught trying to act town but not completely following through and then trying to quickly give a reason that will hopefully pass through. Which, as we've seen, it didn't pass by me at least. If you like, I can go over the two more relevant posts of his on page 2.

I said I was done with the random voting stage

Here he attempts to explain away his lack of a vote on me by saying that he's not in RVS anymore. But, when he gets around to answering my question about if what his said in 24 wasn't serious, he replies:

No I was serious. I fos Voided

Now, normally I could still find it plausible that despite his seriousness he doesn't want to vote me without more, but to me this just doesn't jive with what he said in post 33. As I stated before and as he himself confirms, he had a serious enough reason to vote me, and voting me at that point probably would've knocked us out of RVS at that point, so why be so self-conscious about it?

As for the second quote:

I don't wanna vote yet. I need time to get reads.

Okay, so you need reads. But, then, you already had one on me that was quite clearly a scumread. You don't need more reads to vote me on that.

You can try to sell me on mallow having a cautious playstyle, but I don't see how a cautious playstyle translates to "not voting a serious scumread".

this is scum saying, "oh and btw, i do have some reads, i'll get to them later." and whats funny is that i knew when i read this post that there would be no "later". and let's see what happened then, shall we:

Meh, so sorry I let you down. I was going to go over Cheonan when I got back from work, but then you came in with a scummy vote on me with no explanation and that made you a top priority. *shrug*

the bo vote was a reaction to his "i'll be mad at whoever hammers" comment. not really a big case, but certainly warranted me dropping all my rvs votes and getting into the discussion. his reaction since has been ok so not much suspicion there right now. i could remove that vote if it made you feel better, but i am in no rush in this particular set-up, i think the idea of hanging votes out there increases our chance of catching oppurtunistic scum. but thats just my opinion.

Having more than 2 votes out at any time other than RVS is not tantamount to a scumclaim but it's really damn scummy. If you forget all the places that you have your vote (unless you check the most recent VC at every oppurtunity, but sometimes even then) and one of the people you had one of your votes on gets lynched, it can be very easy for hypothetical-scum-you to shy away from responsibility due to having your votes all over the place. With votes spread out like that, you could have a good chance of getting away by saying "he was one of my suspects anyways," so long as you didn't have a massively conflicting read, but even then you could still make the plausible argument that you just forgot.

And besides, how are you going to pressure people when you have votes on almost everyone in the game? How are we supposed to know which votes are for pressure and which ones aren't? You could say "this vote is and this vote isn't" but we'd still have to take your word for it if you keep them there.

tl;dr: More votes=less responsibility. Less votes=more responsibility.

Thanks, Don.

Vote: Voided

...Uh-huh.

Oh, right, missed a post from you.

The real trouble is Voided. I have a completely null read on him, and that alone makes me suspicious. He's mainly just asked questions that didn't really go anywhere, and has avoided putting out theories or even opinions. And then of course there's MIA Leviathan, about whom there is nothing to say.

"Asked questions that didn't go anywhere"?

Name any question that I asked that you think hasn't gotten a result. (though, speaking of questions, I did have one for you in post 102.)

Well, considering that paschendale actually hammered me, I think, I guess I won't get around to talking about Cheonan anyways.

Mallow's still scum.
AA I didn't get to focus on, but I feel a leaning townread.
Cheo is null.
Don is scummy but not priority.
Paschendale also looks scummy now, but I probly won't get to elaborate.

In case feirei cleans up before class is over, toodles.

[Voidedmafia]

Okay, so I do have some time. Going over cheonan.

Post 11 - RVS.
Post 18 - Votes me because he doen't want mallow to get close to a lynch. Fair enough.
Post 36 - agrees with Bo that mallow kinda avoided Bo's question regarding why he didn't vote me in 24 (which, btw, don, mallow kinda did). Also asks AA why they said Bo was scum. Cheo feels town so far, partially because he agrees with our suspicions on mallow at this point without sounding like he's just blindly agreeing, and partially because I like the probing into AA's blanket statement.
Post 42 - This post kinda makes me twitch. Not necessarily because the confusion in it isn't warranted, but the tone in the post just looks too aggressively defensive (if that makes sense) to sit right with me.
Post 58 - At least he realizes that it could be construed as too aggressive a response. A good question to don, too, trying to see where don stands with mallow. So I still feel like he's town.
Post 59 - Expressing cautioun around a mallow lynch, desiring more information, and also probing the lurkers. Also feels town here as well.
Posts 92, 93, and 94 - Grouping them together because they're more or less like one whole post. Primarily talks to AA about who Cheo is focusing on, how AA feels about Cheo, and his own reads. 94 also mentions he voted me to see how we would respond. I think I didn't respond because it was halfway decent for what appeared to me as a semi-RVS vote (or at least a vote for the sake of voting). I think I was curious as to why you voted me over anyone else but I never really asked you about it at the time since I was more focused on mallow.

As for the last comment (or sidenote), I feel like Bo mentioning how he felt bad about Cheo set me on a wild goose chase by making me think there was something wrong with him. I don't see any problems, so bad Bo, bad Bo!

syeah, Cheo's town to me. PoE would then dictate that mallow and don are scum to me. If mallow somehow flips town then I feel like Paschendale would be a good place to look, but if mallow flips scum then I highly suggest going after don next.

[Voidedmafia]

If anyone has any pertinent questions, ask them before 3:30 PM Central time as I'll be heading to work and there's no garauntee that Feirei won't announce my flip while I'm at work.

[Voidedmafia]

do votes reset after the first lynch. if not, we may want to strip some off to avoid a quick 1-2.

They should. It's too late to unvote me, anyways.

voided: i still think you are stretching the mallow stuff. how are you on amethyst? can you do some quick iso work or something on them?

No time for me, sorry.

Bo, I still think Don's worth going after, but mallow should be what part 2 is for. I think I'd be fine with a Paschen lynch, though.

[Voidedmafia]

...like, seriously, whuh?

What the hell is with people in this game and quickhammers?

I'm happy for the unexpected win, but...

[Voidedmafia]

Okay, but seriously. What was it exactly that made me seemingly everyone's top scum read?

But me :< I THOUGHT YOU WERE TOWN, CHEO!