Open 500 - Popcorn Mafia: Game Over!

[Wisdom]

I get accused I am not acting by my "town meta" almost every game, so yeah.

Then why did you try that subtle discredit on us for "using meta all the time"?

Because you're defending TIP based on meta.

[Wisdom]

For dj, it's a gut feeling. I get the impression he's being genuine.

Did you say this somewhere?

Nope. As I said earlier I did not want to give townreads.

[Wisdom]

For feg, my "case" was that he subtly pushed me getting shot despite me not being in his scumreads. Right after he saw there was support for this.

So it's a case of opportunism that put him on your list, is that correct?

Mostly, yeah. Like I said I am not as sure about feg as I am about TIP or bork.

[Wisdom]

What do you mean? bork's still scum.

and jacob too

and ns

Am I misunderstanding, or in the short span of 3 pages I went from town that shouldn't be killed until final 4 to scum, without even posting? Why .-.

PM, I ready some games of you two in them. Don't see how my

stalking

research has any importance.

I'll be genuinely surprised if Wisdom flips scum. Why do I feel like most of my reads =/= anyone other than wisdom wtf is this. In all honesty, I still like my scumteam proposition.

The latter two quotes are from Oil. Was Oil saying you're town that shouldn't be killed?

[Wisdom]

I don't care about TIP's scumgames dude. I just find him scum in this game.

And this. You usually listen to meta reasons when they are brought up so why didn't you pull something like "check yourself and bring it back" why are you so stubbornly going to shoot TiP regardless of what we say?

There you go again, you usually do this and that.
He's scum, I don't need to check anything. You give me the gun, I shoot him.

[Wisdom]

Nope. As I said earlier I did not want to give townreads.

then why did you just give out a townread?

Because you asked me whether dj is in my scumlist or not.
And I believe you really should not base your reads on who others townread or scumread. Form your own reads.

[Wisdom]

There you go again, you usually do this and that.
He's scum, I don't need to check anything. You give me the gun, I shoot him.

I don't get why you want to be shot.

You know why it's bad for town to get shot in this setup which is why I'm questioning you on it.

Yeah, it's bad, but it looks like you'll shoot me anyway so I am telling you that if I get the gun, I'll be using it on TIP.

[Wisdom]

Because I am not playing to an inexistent "Wisdom town meta", I guess.

[Wisdom]

Too bad, you'll have to deal with it.

[Wisdom]

And you again dodged 974.

[Wisdom]

How is it stupid? You can't just call the responses bad without saying why they're bad.
Looks like you just can't answer it.

[Wisdom]

No it's not obvious. I disagree, I don't find them bad. And I didn't see anyone else agreeing they're bad either. So you do have to explain.

[Wisdom]

What were your initial impressions when you were following it?

[Wisdom]

The tactics Wisdom is using to avoid the gun amuses me

[Wisdom]

If they miss, they die.

[Wisdom]

I was not.

[Wisdom]

@Bork- I liked a lot of Wisdoms points against you

I remember you disagreeing with those points

[Wisdom]

Damn it Oil.

[Wisdom]

I hope you live to troll me more on D2

[Wisdom]

Siv or dj next?

[Wisdom]

I'm going by Oil's list. If it was me I'd still shoot TIP.

[Wisdom]

Oil have you and Siv in their list though, so I'm guessing it's one of you next.

[Wisdom]

Not in his scumlist.

[Wisdom]

I'm in his "second town core". And so are you :/

[Wisdom]

Town Core:
{Bert, Kerberos, NS} <--- never get shot
{TheIrishPope, Wisdom, Fegelein} <--- second town core
{ArcAngel9, borky, don_johnson, Siv} <--- people in the process of being shot

[Wisdom]

I'll never get why people don't read the game

[Wisdom]

Don, Feg or Siv.
(Or TIP but I know you won't shoot him)

[Wisdom]

TIP make a list like Fegelein's

[Wisdom]

I want you to sort that everyone else too

[Wisdom]

Sure, but everyone's reads are more or less known now, so it makes little difference.

[Wisdom]

wtf how is TIP less scum than me now? You've been pushing him and agreeing with me all game

[Wisdom]

Then give yours

Scum

TIP
feg
-
dj
siv
-
ns
-
-
Kerb
Bert

Town

[Wisdom]

To elaborate on 1179, it's widely known that Kerb and Bert are everyone's top townreads so scum will have those too.

[Wisdom]

And tbh since the gunbearer gave us his reads scum can just sheep those ones. So no point in holding back reads now.

[Wisdom]

Interesting list

Now you

[Wisdom]

I just said that there's no point in NOT giving reads. Learn to read.

[Wisdom]

Fine. Who do you want shot except me?

[Wisdom]

lolol

[Wisdom]

I'd like to hear who Siv intends to shoot if he's town. Since dj died and all Siv talked about was dj.

[Wisdom]

omg Wisdom laughed he must be scum

[Wisdom]

He already said they will shoot Siv

[Wisdom]

Do you want them to?

[Wisdom]

Neh I wouldn't shoot TIP anymore
It's Siv or Feg

[Wisdom]

I laughed at 1238 tbh

[Wisdom]

You obvtowned, and you have no idea how you did it <3

meta

no

[Wisdom]

Holy fuck, did we just win?

We hope so

lies you still think its me

[Wisdom]

It was addressed to TIP, not you

[Wisdom]

Damn. Close enough.
Siv, shoot feg

[Wisdom]

And he never explained why AA's responses were bad.
Guess why.

[Wisdom]

Don't flip a coin, just shoot Feg

[Wisdom]

If Feg is town he will most likely shoot me, so I guess we will end up in Oil's scenario with me as the shooter
But most likely he's scum and it will be over

[Wisdom]

I am going to enjoy shooting you Wisdom.
Get on your knees.

So you don't oppose getting shot, I take it.
Shoot this

[Wisdom]

Well the shot was done. So feg is either trolling or town and will shoot me

[Wisdom]

Shit
It's TIP isn't it

[Wisdom]

Kerberos, what are the associative tells telling you?

[Wisdom]

Not scum.

[Wisdom]

And we are in Oil's scenario...
Bert, Kerb, NS, TIP and the shooter (me) alive.

[Wisdom]

I want to hear who everyone wants me to shoot, and why.

[Wisdom]

ns explain to me exactly why Kerb is town. "Oil said so" means nothing, he also said Siv is scum but he wasn't.
So explain.

[Wisdom]

I think I'll shoot ns

[Wisdom]

I am not shooting TIP. Start convincing me why I should shoot Kerb and not you

[Wisdom]

Why is TIP scum? You've just sheeped/buddied me all game without providing your own reasons.

[Wisdom]

He mixed the names up there, he meant TIP

[Wisdom]

ns, do you disagree that TIP's reactions to the shots/flips were towntells?

[Wisdom]

You find Kerb more town that somoene who towntelled because mollie looked like town?

Wanna rethink that?

[Wisdom]

than someone*

[Wisdom]

Nacho also said that TIP towntelled and he should not be shot.
Why are you selective on which parts of Nacho's posts you support?

[Wisdom]

The tiers were done BEFORE any shots, BEFORE any flips, BEFORE any reactions. BEFORE TIP towntelled.
Capiche?
Stop using them as an excuse.

[Wisdom]

So now you want me convinced to shoot Kerb?

[Wisdom]

lol
I don't think you realize the situation.
I am shooting you or Kerb. The two others are town.
If you want me not to shoot you,

you

have to tell me why Kerb is scum. Not Bert.

[Wisdom]

What's your Kerb theory again?

[Wisdom]

So TIP, you want Kerb shot?

[Wisdom]

I want Kerberos to chime in as well.
Come talk to us...

[Wisdom]

Can you just let them talk instead of predicting what they'll say?

[Wisdom]

Can you just let them talk instead of predicting what they'll say?

[Wisdom]

Well that's too bad because you can't shoot them without the gun. And I'll wait for them.

[Wisdom]

not happening

[Wisdom]

Wont it be funny when Bert wins and is revealed as last scum?

[Wisdom]

Who do you want shot, Mala?

[Wisdom]

So you don't think that Kerb is town anymore?

[Wisdom]

I disagreed with it the first time, won't change now.
Do you have any other reasons for Kerb being scum or is that it?

[Wisdom]

I want to question more

Fine, I want to see you posting and doing this then

[Wisdom]

What changed your mind?

[Wisdom]

Wisdom, did you get everything you needed
Or will you still delay the game

The latter

[Wisdom]

1442, 1443, and this post is Mara I'm catching up, but can someone tell me what happened?

I'm the gunbearer.
Alive: You, TIP, Bert, NS
Who do you want shot?

[Wisdom]

Everyone that is alive is alive because Nacho townread them. Please stop using that as an argument.

[Wisdom]

Who do you want shot, mollie?

[Wisdom]

NS or TIP then.
Lemme know who you choose.

[Wisdom]

wtf...

[Wisdom]

"I do terrible under pressure, omg talk to me"

Says to shoot the person who does terrible under pressure.

Seems legit.

What do you mean here?

[Wisdom]

She did not say that her reason for wanting you shot is your nerves, did she?

[Wisdom]

I don't think it was a reason for townreading Bert either. If anything, she was responding to Bert's accusation.

[Wisdom]

Hi KX, waiting for your input

[Wisdom]

You still think Kerb, TIP?

[Wisdom]

Here

[Wisdom]

Waiting for KX to read and input

[Wisdom]

Do as you like KX, as long as you tell me who to shoot and you give me reasons.

[Wisdom]

DJ pushed Kerberos as a policy lynch. Do you really think scum would do that to a partner? I don't.
As for them being in DJ's list of four along with the other two scum; it really means nothing. In fact scum tend to include just one of their partners in scumlists, so I'd find it more likely that he included 1 scum and 3 town.
But anyway this all is assuming what scum do and what scum don't. Let's just focus on this game.

[Wisdom]

as a policy shot*, to be exact

[Wisdom]

Well I tend to read everyone individually and see where they contradict or feel off instead of relying on generic scumtells that more than often are wrong.

[Wisdom]

So basically you're saying Kerb > TIP > NS?

[Wisdom]

Why so sure than ns is town?

[Wisdom]

What makes TIP more scummy than ns?

[Wisdom]

Hmmm
Wisdom, you gonna shoot?

Still wanting Kerb?

[Wisdom]

Dunno. Who would you go for now?

Dunno, who would you?

[Wisdom]

TIP why can't you decide on one person? You went from Kerb to NS to KX.

[Wisdom]

What changed?

[Wisdom]

Blah im bored

Shoot: notscience

Shoot Kerb/TIP if you are town, leave KX alone.

Good luck

[Wisdom]

You should shoot Kerb and Kerb (if town) should shoot TIP.
Please dont shoot KX

[Wisdom]

Kerb. Then TIP in lylo.

@KX
Kerb is a hydra of 3 people, only one of them finds you scum

[Wisdom]

btw sorry ns, I really couldn't decide and you had made me paranoid at times

[Wisdom]

They won't shoot KX, don't worry.
Even though I doubt they're town now

[Wisdom]

TIP I don't trust you to be the shooter in lylo and I hope ns doesn't either. You changed your mind 3 times about who you wanted me to shoot.

[Wisdom]

They will shoot you and win. If they are town, which they most likely are not anyway.
And yes I trust them with the gun more than you.

[Wisdom]

I think you are scum if Kerb isn't, duh

[Wisdom]

Because I thought ns is?

[Wisdom]

Not answering doesn't mean I ignored them. I keep most of my thoughts to myself.

[Wisdom]

Well Kerb said ns, KX said Kerb and TIP had no fucking clue.
So yeah

[Wisdom]

Just shoot Kerberos three times so no head survives

[Wisdom]

we are not scum wisdom and you are going to feel pretty dumb, lol

i already shot town, so dont worry about me

[Wisdom]

we are not scum

Because I'm Town

Said no scum ever

[Wisdom]

Kill the middle head last
Let it go crazy

[Wisdom]

I think the three headed dawg will go back to hell

[Wisdom]

NS is town, and will shoot you
Then if you are town, you will shoot TIP in lylo.
That will finish the game.

[Wisdom]

No.
Leave KX alone.
NS will shoot you, and you will shoot TIP.
Nothing else.

[Wisdom]

If you aren't scum it's TIP. KX is not scum.
And stop relying on meta.

[Wisdom]

ns is town and KX is town. Scum is in {you, TIP}. Most likely you.

[Wisdom]

AND IF YOU THOUGHT I WAS SCUM, WHY DID YOU SHOOT SCIENCE?

Because I thought he is. But since he isn't, you are.

[Wisdom]

Wait
How do we

know

he isn't

Well if he is, the game will just end.
We're talking about the possibility that it doesn't end.

[Wisdom]

oh, sweet jesus

ns, if you are town, shoot Kx

ns shoot the hydra back to hell

[Wisdom]

Yep, that's the plan, and then you shoot TIP and we win. Leave KX alone.

[Wisdom]

Shoot us, and we will shoot Kx. sounds good to me

Heh.
I get it.
They want to play with your paranoia that they will shoot KX so that you don't shoot them.
That's the reason that one head wants to shoot KX and the others disagree.
They want to pass off as a disagreeing hydra so that they are not selected for lylo.
SHOOT THEM, NS.

[Wisdom]

That's not what she said

[Wisdom]

bert is town town town and moar town. mara is like all "ack ack ack bert is scum!" on our chatlog and said I needed to get in here but I am not fully caught up. what I am working from is from her perspective of things but right now we are having a heated argument about bert. I wish to god people would freaking trust my town reads. bert was bleeding town earlier and I can't seem to make her see that.

^disagreeing

End of talking, you have to be shot.

[Wisdom]

That was just pressure, KX didn't do anything that could be considered read-changing and definitely not after mollie was so certain about Bert.

[Wisdom]

TIP just make sure ns doesn't shoot anyone who has less than three heads, thanks

[Wisdom]

I am a persuasive person Wisdom.

Okay, and how did you persuade her exactly? Wanna persuade us too?

[Wisdom]

The key points please. What changed mollie's mind.

[Wisdom]

Nope, Kerberos is the last scum. Don't be betting anything.

[Wisdom]

I want specifics. Exactly what you showed to mollie and she went from "bleeding town" to "scum".

[Wisdom]

And how did you do that?

[Wisdom]

Please show that to us too

[Wisdom]

Actually you don't need to continue.
Sorry Marangal, but you are busted.
You thought ns was scum, remember?

wait, really? that should finish the game right? if ns ends up being town, all hell will ensue...

Therefore there's no way you were proving to mollie that everyone, including ns, is bleeding town.
You are lying.

[Wisdom]

And a second point:

the way he acts, the way he reacts, the hypocritical nature of his opinions, all that stuff combined make him scum.

I want specifics. Exactly what you showed to mollie and she went from "bleeding town" to "scum".

I pointed out that everyone here is "bleeding town"

In the first quote, you're talking about Bert/KX being scum because of his actions/reactions/hypocrisy.
I ask you for specifics.
Then you change it to PoE. Everyone else is "bleeding town" so KX is scum by PoE.
Nope. It doesn't work this way.

[Wisdom]

have us quote the specific argument we had over bert? I'm pretty sure that's against the rules.

No, I want you to convince me like you convinced mollie. But you're unwilling. I was expecting you to bring this up.

Pedit: yes, I thought ns was scum but that was more recent, earlier on in the game he was high on my town list.

What "earlier in the game" are you talking about? According to you, mollie just recently changed her mind about KX, and according to you, she was convinced because of PoE. Because of ns being bleeding town. Yet at the same time you thought ns is scum. Noope.

[Wisdom]

notscience!
Read 1648 and 1651 and shoot the caught scum!

[Wisdom]

Pedit: No wisdom, I only thought science was scum when it came down to the final 4. before it came down to you being shooter, Bert, Me, TIP, and Science I continued to call their arguments as TvT arguments. It wasn't until it came down to the final four that I thought science was probably scum

So when it was the final 5 you were supporting it's KX and everyone else is bleeding town, yet when I shot ns he suddenly became scum?
You don't even make any sense anymore Marangal, you should better stop :/

[Wisdom]

Are you two seriously still arguing when I've caught scum in their lies?

[Wisdom]

Marangal don't try to backtrack now.
You told us that you convinced mollie that KX is scum by showing how everyone else is "bleeding town".
This happened today. This day. With me as the gunbearer. Because it's in this day that mollie expressed the change in opinion.
Therefore, this day, today, you thought ns is "bleeding town". And also today you thought that ns is scum.

[Wisdom]

Nah I'll keep attacking till she gives up/I die

[Wisdom]

when it was final 5, it was a choice between Kx and Science then me and mollie started arguing on who between the two are scum because I refuse to believe that TIP is scum. She started getting me think that I was wrong, so I moved to science though at the same time I thought she started moving towards Kx scum so now I'm back on Kx.


Pedit: no, everyone in the final 4 are bleeding obvious town. Me, Bert, science, TIP and I had to get her to see past that "super Obv town" coat that everyone was wearing. I thought science was scum today, but before today I didn't even think that science could ever be scum. I didn't think anyone here could be scum, not until you because the gun-bearer.

But that's not what you told us :/ You told us that you convinced mollie that KX is scum, by showing her how everyone (including ns) is obvtown. Are you admitting that you lied?

[Wisdom]

Does it matter which day the posts were from? You showed mollie that Science is obvtown, today. And you thought that Science is scum, also today.

[Wisdom]

Mollie changed her opinion about Bert/KX today.
You claimed you convinced her.
You claimed you convinced her by showing how everyone else is obvtown.
Everyone else includes Science.

Therefore you showed how Science is obvtown today.

[Wisdom]

When I say today I meant that you did it today. Not that you used actions that happened today.

[Wisdom]

Mara that doesn't make sense.
You convinced mollie that KX is scum TODAY. Therefore everyone else is town TODAY too. Also you cannot argue that everyone was town before today but they were not town anymore today.

[Wisdom]

Okay so lets go back.
You didn't convince mollie that KX is scum by proving that everyone else is town. You just mentioned that everyone looked town so mollie's argument about him bleeding town was not enough.
So again, how did you convince mollie that KX is scum. Specifics.

[Wisdom]

Basically this doesn't change the opinion of someone like mollie
But at least you tried
Now you'll get shot though
See ya at the endgame

[Wisdom]

Yay!

[Wisdom]

this is such an unfun setup to be scum in

Yeah, scum can do nothing at all other than hope to dodge the shots. Boring for them and townsided.

[Wisdom]

Marangal in Mafia QT:

TIP and Science are probably to be thought of as maf fairly quick due to their play-styles I think...

Good prediction... They both made me paranoid enough...

[Wisdom]

Also the way to beat Wisdom is to just make logical arguments about whatever you want. Every time I play with him he latches onto logical inconsistencies that are usually just town skipping, misreading, or forgetting something.

Damn this is so true

[Wisdom]

I think wisdom is a special, he is hanging back

lol mollie

[Wisdom]

Sorry for the torturing Mara :/

[Wisdom]

And mollie you're unfair with don. I think he played a pretty good game. Scum DO need to bus in this townsided setup. Towncred means everything.

[Wisdom]

Well your hydra theory was not exactly correct, as they didn't select the hydra for dissonance, but because they wanted them dead quickly.

[Wisdom]

Don't care if we won, you're still scum to me!

[Wisdom]

^agreement

[Wisdom]

I agree that he could have done it better, but I don't agree that bussing was not a good tactic. Scum cannot win if they don't become obvtown in this setup. And I don't think that anyone would pick up that DJ is listing ALL of his scumreads for that purpose. Some of them maybe, but not all. You say that KX picked it up, but he was less sure when I told him that I don't find it likely. You say that Nacho does, but he didn't shoot you after he shot DJ, did he?
So no. I think that you're being unfair here. They discussed it in the QT and agreed that bussing is good. I didn't see you seeing anything about it (probably you werent around) but they did discuss it.
In any case, abandoning the game the way you did and going "I dont care about this game, good luck" is bad, no matter what a scumbuddy did. I also have this problem when I am scum, I think that town will realize everything and that I am doomed, but most of the times I am wrong. You're more experienced and you should know that; no matter how obvious something is, town is not guaranteed to pick it up. Keep going and don't do that to your team.

[Wisdom]

scumbuddies*

[Wisdom]

If Oil didn't pick up on it, it wasn't that red.

[Wisdom]

lol

[Wisdom]

I don't think the AA or bork shots had anything to do with dj's list.

[Wisdom]

What made you think Kerberos was obvious scum? I don't really think so.