Open 494: Duck Duck Goose (Game over!)

[TheIrishPope]

Hello everyone! I am TheIrishPope! You may call me Irish, Pope, or IrishPope (or put any new nickname, that's fine.)
Let's get things started!

VOTE: awestfie

Always start with the ending!

[TheIrishPope]

Good luck in your concert!
A question for everyone who sees this: Lynch All Liars, yay or nay?

[TheIrishPope]

Hello The Acting Method!
You don't feel like it? Why, that's part of the fun! Refusing to the RVS is like denying to play the game!
Whiskers, Syryana, I ask to get a better understanding of people's opinions, and to decide if I agree to it as well.
Why so fidgety, Whiskers?

[TheIrishPope]

He/she was probably referring to the role name, but I see what you mean.

[TheIrishPope]

Scum are talking now since they have daytalk. Whoever hasn't posted is scum. We have won!
We rock.

[TheIrishPope]

Why, you are very quick to defend yourself, RachMarie. Why do you defend mafia anyway? And why would you want to slow down? I change my vote.
VOTE: RachMarie

[TheIrishPope]

An OMGUS would be in RVS, we are past it already. I suspect you because you defend scum right away, which is extremely odd. Quickhammers depend on the result: if we lynched scum, great. If we lynched town, we know who to look into. You cannot say they are all bad; the majority of them, maybe.

[TheIrishPope]

I never wanted to start LaL discussion. I just wanted people's opinions. And sure, the game is mostly theory, but we're having fun, and we haven't heard from everyone yet.

[TheIrishPope]

Lynch all Liars, which was the question on Post #9. I do not understand them either.

[TheIrishPope]

Oh, just to be clear, when I talk about lies, I don't count gambits. That's another story entirely.

[TheIrishPope]

There have been cases, yes, but OMGUS are generally in RVS. My vote was not an OMGUS because I gave solid reasons.
I agree that discussion is good for us, however it gives more information to scum as well. It also adds pressure to possible townies who might slip up and consequently be seen as scum.

[TheIrishPope]

Dude we have like 50 posts and half the peeps have hardly posted and it is Day 1?

Why you so worried about it?

Could you list those reasons in a simple list cause some how I am not seeing them...

You just said discussion is good. Why are you opposed to it now?
Whoever participates the most and gets close to finding scum is NKed. Easier than making juice out of water.
If you're asking why I voted for you, here you go:
1. You defended scum, and
2. You did so swiftly and joyfully.
Anywho, RachMarie is scum.

[TheIrishPope]

1. huh> where did I defend scum?

2. I mentioned that it was wrong to assume everyone that is scum is lurking.... umm ok?

umm where do you get that idea?

That is not good reasoning cause scum could be posting in daytalk and in here... IIRC the only person who has not posted is Rondar... So yeah if you believe that why are you not voting Rondar?
VOTE: IP

If let's say nine of us are talking, we may all be PGOs and hurting town. Mafia may just be sitting back and enjoying the show until it's necessary to enter. Don't make defending your partners to obvious, RachMarie.

I fail to see how RachMarie defended "scum," if you're referring to her response (Post 27) to your "joke*," (Post 24), then yeah, I do fail to see how she defended anyone by saying that. In a way, she was simply implying that your logic was wrong.

I assume you're gonna say that I'm defending her now, but, honestly your "push" on her is based off of nothing, why do you say she defended "scum?" You're assuming the only people that didn't post are scum; which is terrible logic. If anything, she defended the people who haven't posted yet, which isn't scummy nor townie.

* - I took it as a joke, because of the fact that you posted that on the first page, a few hours after the thread has been opened, not everybody is online at the same time as you - you can't expect every player on the table to post on the first page. It was either that, a joke, or a reaction test, which if it was; RachMarie's response to it wasn't good or bad, so even then, I don't understand your "push" on her.

Your assumption is correct in a way. It was a reaction test, and RachMarie failed miserably, attacking me because I made an assumption. That post alone shot her to number one scum.

VOTE: Whiskers

I am so glad you could casually grace us with the fact that your role utilized a gun. While I thank you for your consideration in providing us with a role claim as early as the third post, I would usually prefer you to have had some kind of reason for doing so. Let's talk about it.

Whoa yeah, let's start the conversation about how

every role in this setup, town and scum, has a gun."

Why do you defend mafia anyway?

I suspect you because you defend scum right away, which is extremely odd.

I do not understand [the votes on Whiskers] either.

Wait, wait, so I'm scum, but you don't understand why there are votes on me? Maybe the votes are on me because they think I'm scum. Why do YOU think I'm scum?

So, it's still early enough for inaccurate votes, even if we're out of RVS by this stage.

Vote: MontyWhittaker

For sheer stupid, because while I want to vote TheIrishPope for the same reason, I feel as though my tiff with Monty will be fleeting, and it'll be poor form to vote him later.

I did not say the quickhammer on you would be effective. I am saying that ANY quickhammer would give us information, but I do not support yours.

That doesn't seem to be the case-- you say, "It's too early for a lynch!" and he says, "No, quickhammers either catch scum or provide useful information to town!" which, when I actually type it myself,
no, they don't, because the useful information is obtained by analysing interactions between the flipped player and the other players, and quickhammering limits that substantially.

At L-1, everyone makes mistakes. People defend, people attack, things get intense. It is a perfect time to make judgment calls.

[TheIrishPope]

Here we go.

However, TIP, saying that was not an OMGUS vote was not a good move, nor could it be true. You're telling me that you had enough reasonable suspicion to warrant that vote?

Of course I had enough suspicion. RachMarie made a big deal out of a benign post. Acting like such definitely suggests scum.

TIP:
I have to agree with the vast majority of the player base. Your scum accusation of Rach Marie for Defending Scum seems baseless, Who the fuck is she supposedly defending? What I see from your post where she supposedly does this is "So, Rondar is the only one who is lurking if you think scum is in the lurkers, why aren't you voting him?"

Which is a good question.

Reaction Test? Yeah, no. Attacking someone for disagreeing with you and calling you out on a hypocrisy... If you expect that person to be scum you've got to be smoking something.

VOTE: The Irish Pope
I'm sorry, your case holds like a sift of water...

I see. I understand your concerns. She defended the target of my post. I wanted to draw reactions from scum. I accomplished my goal. I do not understand how it is baseless. I would have voted for a lurker if RachMarie did not post such an obvious post, revealing her as scum.

I never wanted to start LaL discussion. I just wanted people's opinions. And sure, the game is mostly theory, but we're having fun, and we haven't heard from everyone yet.

If you didn't want to start a LaL discussion, then why did you ask about it....

BS.

Syryana makes me wary of a TIP wagon, unfortunately.

I wanted opinions. I did not want discussion. They are two different things.
Hop on the bandwagon, that's cool with me.

I found the popemobile joke amusing.

[TheIrishPope]

Nothing symbolizes the Pope's trust in God than 10 inch bulletproof glass.
I am contributing correctly to the game. I do not know why you see as scum.

[TheIrishPope]

Let me repeat myself:
What I found odd about RachMarie's posts was the fact that she was so eager to get me lynched after a post I made to draw out scum. If she's trying to bring pressure on me, then she's doing it wrong. What was the purpose of your vote, RachMarie.
Syryana, care to explain why Lastsurvivor's use of logic means he's scum?

[TheIrishPope]

I'm a newb?

[TheIrishPope]

Why, that only implies I am a newb in MafiaScum, but not at the game of Mafia. I don't understand how my case is illogical. It seems Whiskers is just jumping on a BW and agreeing to what people say. How am I obtrusive? I am cooperating in the game, trying to find scum, and you shoot me down saying I am illogical.

[TheIrishPope]

I think I don't like you, tIP. You come in and say that the "lurkers" (people who haven't posted within two hours of the game started-- have you ever heard of "time-zones," "sleep," or "work"?) are scum, then attack someone for defending them.

Then you tell us that you think quicklynches are great. So far, it sounds like you're shaping up to lynch somebody before they even post in the thread.

As I have said earlier, it was a reaction test. I am well aware of time zones and what not. I admit it was flawed logic. It was on purpose to draw out scum. I accomplished my goal.
Let me remind you of WIFOM. Am I looking like an inexperienced player on purpose? That's up to you.

[TheIrishPope]

DCLXVI, must I remind you that sarcasm is not a scumtell?
Anywho, whatever. I wasn't targeting a single person, nor did I give a list of who I wanted to lynch. I did not even vote. Her vote was baseless. Townies shouldn't have to worry if they were active. The people who were inactive could've defended themselves. RachMarie did not have to step up and defend them.
Don't hate the player, hate the game.

[TheIrishPope]

Lemme try again to explain sigh

1. You made a stab at stating the lurkers and using that term rather loosely here since we are still early on and they are now start to post, were the scum and the active players were town.

2. I put a vote on you to push for more because your logic sucked... even you have finally admitted it did...

3. You react by OMGUS and then tunneling on me rather hard core while ignoring everyone else in the game pretty much...

4. You continue to react... and continue to say that I defended.. I did not defend anyone... I was pushing based on YOUR reactions. Do I think there is possible scum in those peeps who had not yet posted, yes it is possible, and it is equally possible that some of our more active posters are scum. How active someone is or is not is NOT a scumtell it is null.

5. Other people have echoed what I have been saying, but you still stubbornly insist I was defending...

6. I am not worried I was not worried then and I am not worried now, I am trying to scumhunt, and if you are town you should be doing that too.

7. One of the less active players jumped in and posted something that SHOULD have gottne your attention... and you have flat out ignored it while continuing to tunnel on me... hhhmmmm

8. Based on dudes post, I have moved my vote to him, so has LS.... again NO response to this...

Conclusion: You maybe scum, and he maybe scum buddy. And you maybe ignoring him and focusing on me hoping what he said gets ignored by everyone else. And that seems like a more likely motive than oh I was doing a reaction test... I could see you trying to bus Mike cause he had not yet posted, seeing me respond and focusing on me, mike jumps in and you are patently ignoring him hoping peeps dont see his scumslip.

Of course until we get a flip its rather shaky logic... So not calling it as a definite yet.

Alright, let's say you were not defending anyone and the purpose of your post was to pressure me. Do I look more Towny now? Nothing will change your mind. Stating you are scumhunting does not relief you of suspicion. Mike may have been talking about policy lynching, but I don't mind it much. I want more from him before I vote for him.
Whiskers, you are making a huge deal out of this. What's up with that? RachMarie can defend herself, and is doing quite well actually.

[TheIrishPope]

Being a hypocrite is a part of the game!
It's not what she did, but how she did it. It would have been acceptable if she questioned me about it, but I did not see the need of voting, since she supposedly loves discussion or whatever. I used flawed logic because if she overreacted, it would mean she is scum. She just uses an insignificant reason to get me mislynched, and you are all making a mistake by following her.
Syryana, your reads are interesting. LS is correct, listen to him.
Also, Hiraki is just enjoying the show. He is entertained by Town attacking each other. Bastard.

[TheIrishPope]

Yes, I am aware of it. Why do you ask?

[TheIrishPope]

Everyone who has voted for me still thinks I am scum because of you. Again, I want to hear more from Mike. LS was right about me being town. He might be right about mike, but I do need some words from the accused.

[TheIrishPope]

Mike, Hiraki, Whiskers, since I have called them out. Mike: Post #100 is really unsettling, but maybe he misspoke or something. Hiraki: Really? This guy/girl is just not giving any care at all to a game he signed up for. He is probably waiting for a BW so he can hop on. Whiskers: If I am elongating something, then Whiskers is uberelongating. She has also blown up this issue and disregards mike for no reason.
I am not that confident meta-gaming applies at any time.
She is not voting for me, but the ones who are voting for me do so because of her. They have not ceased to suspect me. In any case, since Rach is not voting for me, I will change my vote.
VOTE: Hiraki
PEdit: I AM NOT A NEWB JESUS CHRIST

[TheIrishPope]

Whiskers, revealing yourself as scum?

[TheIrishPope]

I officially discontinue my use of smilies until further notice.
RachMarie, it seems everyone associates bad play with being new to the game. Everyone, don't get your panties in a bunch. I may be new to MS, but I am not new to the game, nor am I playing incorrectly. I am not an alt.

[TheIrishPope]

I am not saying you did. Whiskers did.

[TheIrishPope]

I don't think a FPS is a good comparison to a logic based game. Nevertheless, I understand your point. The thing is, you can't say I am a newb after two days of posting.

[TheIrishPope]

My D1 playstyle can't be the basis for my whole playstyle. It may be different in later days and when new information appears.
A VI is a

totally

different thing.

[TheIrishPope]

But I am not new to Mafia. I know what I'm doing. Again, don't get your panties in a bunch. I might be correct in saying RachMarie is scum for that, or that you are scum for throwing out useless posts, but I cannot be completely certain. OMGUS does only happen in RVS...
VI does mean village idiot. I am not this because I do see what I'm doing wrong.

[TheIrishPope]

Think of me as scum, vote for me. That's fine. However, I shit you not, I am not scum.

[TheIrishPope]

I know that I know nothing. So far, I can't get reads on any of you (with the exception of MBF...)
I see where Whiskers comes from, and she is doing a great job, scumhunting and whatnot. However, she has something that upsets me. I can't seem to pinpoint what troubles me.
LS follows the textbook, which is good in theory and for the primitive stage on D1, but I do feel he's hopping on a BW in a certain sense.
RachMarie is cool.
You are all null right now.
Whiskers: What do you have to say about this mike fiasco? Why do I still look scummier in your eyes?
LS: Do you feel mike gives good reasons in the "ends justify the means" sense?
RachMarie: Do you believe WIFOM applies in mike's situation?
If you have any questions, feel free to ask.

[TheIrishPope]

@Irish: Re:Mike:
No, not necessarily. but you are

considerably

more easy to attack you, here's why:
You have a lot more posts.
Over those posts, you've made bad pushes and clung to your attacks.
Mike only has like four posts. There's not much to bite down on.
Mike has only make four posts. That he's "clinging" to his stupid push is an overstatement, because only he's had time to state and explain his stance.
Mike is really confusing to me; The things he is saying are opposite of the things that actually occur, and I have no idea where he's coming from.

Like, this most-recent post for instance. It'd be really great to rip him apart for something like this, except it doesn't make any sense. And now that you've already asked me about it, LATER, when it DOES make sense, I won't be able to use it because you already fucking asked me about it.
For christ's sake, I

see

the posts, ok? Let him get two scummy posts off at a time and maybe I'll be able to pick apart contradictions or something. Every time he posts, somebody waves it in front of my face like it's on fire shouting "do you see this? Do you see this?!" That's great, but I usually don't try to lynch people based on ONE POST AT A TIME.

What do

YOU

have to say about the Mike fiasco? You're voting for Hiraki but asking me if I think Mike is scummier-- remember earlier in the game when you said one group of people was scummy but didn't vote them? Is this another reaction test?

Holy fuck, my bad, sis.
I want Mike to post more to get a better grasp of where he's coming from. He's being an ass, sure, but he doesn't look like scum much. Maybe 49.9999% scum.

@Irish: Re:Mike:
No, not necessarily. but you are

considerably

more easy to attack

I don't think that is a good reason to vote for me.

[TheIrishPope]

Yeah, I'm agreeing with you. I don't see what's wrong with it.

[TheIrishPope]

You're lashing out over an insignificant thing. Chill.

[TheIrishPope]

Fine, I'll stop talking for a while. I will reread the thread a few times.

[TheIrishPope]

Dear God! My eyes have been illuminated!
VOTE: mikeburnfire
ISO #0: My assumption is he follows "quantity over quality", which just sucks balls in Mafia. The most important thing in Mafia is your words, but you must give direction to them, and not just show them off.
ISO #1: "Syryana's shameful jump to Irish-wagon has been noted." And then IMMEDIATELY JUMPS ON RACHMARIE'S BW. Also, the infamous "I think I'll have a better chance of winning if [RachMarie] dies" implies he doesn't give a fuck about everyone else. He is tunneling on her, not really caring about other issues. Which leads us to...
ISO #2: Implies that I know Whiskers is town, and accuses RachMarie of being useless.
Conclusion: Mike is 98.83% scum.

[TheIrishPope]

See, Whiskers? You're still flipping out. This is a game. Jesus.

[TheIrishPope]

I am being discriminated for being Irish. Bollocks.

[TheIrishPope]

Mike, I have no idea. I was probably high when I voted for you.
UNVOTE: Mikeburnfire
Welcome, Nacho. Welcome back, Hiraki.
Hello everyone.

[TheIrishPope]

You seem overexcited to the point of reading fake.

Why do you vote Rach instead of the scum you have already pegged?

How was it meant to draw out scum?

1. Conversely, I could say you are underexcited... So, yeah, you make no sense.

2. I had not pegged any scum. I did not allude to it, nor did I give a list. "Lurkers" does not have a set definition.

3. A town mind would have seen it as a harmless comment. A scum mind would have seen it as a potential train to kill their brethren.

[TheIrishPope]

I thought I was at L-1, oh well.
WIFOM Rach...
Not much has happened in my eyes, really. DCL votes Mike, Hiraki gave some reads, Mike made an OMGUS, Whiskers is still whining, Nacho voted for me, and you focus on me. Hmm.

[TheIrishPope]

Yeah, my bad. I was probably high about that time as well.

So to do a rundown;
TIP, Whiskers, MBF, and notes (prob.) are all town.
Scum are in:
Sryana, awestfie, Monty(who was yucky and couldn't even earn a spot in this), TAM (where are you plez), and DCL(I just don't have a read here)
Last Survivor is null but definitely leaning town. The rest earn a lynchpool position. Greatest is first, least is last.

I don't understand the town read on notes. Two posts is not enough to decide if a player is town or not.
His read on Mikeburnfire is intriguing as well. I don't understand his reasoning on it.
He has five scum reads, which means two of them are wrong. I don't see the need of calling out many people and potentially meriting a NK.
Last does seem town to me.
Hiraki, if you could please elaborate on these reads, that'd be great.
Rach, why do you think he did not mention you?

I can't comment about Nacho, since the "oh u say things cuz he votes for you omgus bla bla" response will ensue.

HOWEVER, Nacho, if you're not involved in the game, then you are most likely scum.
I don't think a "No." will suffice. More in depth, please.

[TheIrishPope]

You are null at the moment, of course.
I was referring to the "under-excitement" thing.
Really? Then what are towntells and scumtells?
Rach, I meant in the rundown I quoted. Also, he called you out but didn't vote for you. Thoughts?

[TheIrishPope]

Then why do you care about my OMGUS accusation nonsense?

I'm saying that your tone sounds fake. If you say my tone sounds fake, that's fine. But can you back it up?

Those things with a basis behind them. Why can't town get paranoid? Why do scum pounce immediately on the first things they see?

1. I was referring to Rach, but I see your point now. Everyone here relates omgus with scum, apparently. Anywho, no one will lynch me, so I am not worried about my figure to others.

2. It seemed to me that you did not back up your statement. I was just trying to get everyone happy (but failed miserably with examples like a crestfallen TAM and paranoid Whiskers). I'm just like that.

3. Of course Town can get paranoid. I will never give them leniency, however. That's why we vote; to gain more information.

[TheIrishPope]

But I won't be lynched.
Setting the mood.
Alright then.
There is no convincing you, so I will not waste time on you.

[TheIrishPope]

Sigmund Freud would disagree.
I won't bite. I won't be lynched. I am not scum. Deal with it.
Considering you are a religious conservative, I know your upcoming plays.
Don't hate the player, hate the game.
PEdit: Rach, we both know I am not scum. Correct?
How was my post scummy?

[TheIrishPope]

I can't catch scum if no one is posting!

[TheIrishPope]

You really think I would be that obvious as Irishscum? I claim cop btw.
In any case, I see you are talking about policy lynching, which is fine with me, but I will miss you guys if I get lynched.
It is silly for you to think me as scum. If I get lynched, my suspects are Rach, Whiskers, Hiraki, look into them.

[TheIrishPope]

It was a joke, but oh well. Bye guys. DCL is scum for hammering over obvious sarcasm.

[TheIrishPope]

I suggest you do if you are PGO. Maybe you messed with the wrong people?
DCL, I did not think such an obvious lie would be so harmful...

[TheIrishPope]

So you also overreacted. Everyone, again, chill. Seriously.
I am playing one. Seems you guys are too smart for me
PEdit: what Mike said.

[TheIrishPope]

He is entertained by Town attacking each other. Bastard.

Something I had not noticed... Scum.

[TheIrishPope]

Well, I said Hiraki is enjoying Town attacking each other. He confirms it. So...

[TheIrishPope]

TAM, we already established it was a joke...
I saw that I was dead anyway, so whatever good luck from now on

[TheIrishPope]

I knew Whiskers was scummy scum scum
Good game guys, sorry for acting stupid D1
Scum did a great job

[TheIrishPope]

HOW DID NACHO NOT GET LYNCHED?