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Saki Jack of All Trades
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VOTE: CherryDrPepper
STALKERS
OMFG
YOU'RE IN MY OTHER NEWBIE GAME TOOretired
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Saki Jack of All Trades
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YOU TWO*retired
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Saki Jack of All Trades
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whutIn post 19, jmo16mla wrote:
He just asked that...In post 16, Flench wrote:Varsoon who is your top mafia pick atm?
Edit: don't discuss other games.
I'm not discussing other games
UNVOTE: PepperSakuraCherrysomethingsfdska;fjakls;fja;
VOTE: jmo16mla
wayy too nitpickyretired
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yes, yesIn post 21, Flench wrote:Sorry I should just randomly vote people without talking to them, you are right, best way to play for sure.
UNVOTE: jmo16mla
VOTE: Flench
P-EDIT: The game's completed :/retired
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double vote Flenchretired
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that was my very first game and more than two months ago
shaddup and lemme lynch you tworetired
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UNVOTE: Flench
VOTE: CherryDrPepperretired
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town points to whoever guesses where my avatar is fromretired
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lynch all hydras!
/double vote Cherryretired
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I don't like your other head. Tell him thatretired
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he was okay with that avatar? oworetired
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ILL TELL YOU HOW TO DEAL WITH HYDRAS
LYNCH 'EM ALL
its my first time seeing one tooretired
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UNVOTE:
i didnt do nuthin', officerretired
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V/LA 'till the 17th, sorry.retired
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Sneaking in a post
you guys are flying wayyyyy over my head with all of this, ill re-read and re-think when I get time (possibly sometime after the 17th)
@mod: You're forgetting to list my vote in votecounts, I'm currently not votingretired
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aight sneaking in a post that i really shouldn't spend the time on but meh
it's not going to be long, dont expect much
coming up in around 15-20mretired
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Okay I really don't like DP's discussion of 'meta' but I'll play along with it, though it is not at all trustworthy, I have exactly one game played on this site. Like seriously you're going off one completed game that was my first--everyone'd expect a newbie to change playstyle after their first game, right? Even in that game my early-game and late-game play differed a lot.
here's how I imagine my meta (link to the game Cherry is referencing)
first day
walk into the club
wave my VI card like i just don't care
when people start noticing me i take the spotlight
where i drink and dance 'till people think I'm crazy (I'm sure they already do, but)
when the votes come, I turn around and smack whoever threw them in the face
and make the 'omfg everyone is scum' post (which is what i'll do here)
the rationale for said post being that scum like to be on wagons, especially easy ones
I like looking for tells in reactions--therefore I do whatever is necessary to produce said reaction, excuse my play where I am incoherent/impossible to read 'cause I'm probably fishing for reactions somewhere
don't forget to try your hardest to look town!
about the whole hydra business I did not know they existed till now, had to look 'em up.
the rationale behind 'lynch all hydras' because they're disruptive and have an unfair advantage over the rest of the players as town or scum (being able to talk to each other and all)
Anything i post pre-5 pages is really not serious, that's also something I plan to do consistently in my games
@Titus why so cautious of getting on a bandwagon?
@TV yes my game does get better
@Flench V/LA means 'vacation and/or limited access' meaning I'll be here sometimes, but generally not be here. I really don't like how you keep a static vote on someone that's V/LA--scum could easily take advantage of that
@Varsoon why vote me as soon as Pasche makes his readslist against your policy of 'not sticking votes on someone that's V/LA'? sheeping the IC for extra towncred?
@JMO I'm L-2, you're thinking of sticking a vote on me even though there's like two days 'till my V/LA is over?
@Cherry yes I don't like you, really, like NO I LOVE YOU BOTH || i find DP and Sakura pushing me this hard early in the game perfectly aligned with their scum metas
FoS: Varsoon, Paschendale, Flench, Titusfor reasons above + taking all that early-game bullcrap seriously
VOTE: CherryDrPepper
'cause they're scum, yet again. I don't like the giant readslists nor the idea that they specifically go against the general reads floating around in town
Also, a few dumb questions, shouldn't hydras not be allowed to talk to each other via pm/other methods? How do you talk to a hydra? Each head separately or consider them one player and try to merge two opinions into one?retired
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holy fuck I'm stupid sorry Pasche I never meant to point a finger at youretired
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i see you guys notice the irony
congratulations
I figured I could make a counterargument using 'that one game' since they're reading me off 'that one game'
@Flench following up, feel free to AMA
goes for anyone else too, just know that I won't get you a timely responseretired
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i just constructed my meta in that post why ignore it
(that's also what I thought I did in 'that one game')
you can like reference it for all games to comeretired
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if you read the bulk of that post you'd see the thought process from "i was reaction fishing" to the fos
and then questions
you probably dont want to skip/ignore the bulk of it
im fosing them for the question i want answered and to see what their reaction is to an fos compared to a normal question
jesus if i have to model my exact thought process in my posts to prove that my scumhunting is genuine im going to need something more than my phone to post withretired
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Following up on 210
before that thoughI'M A GUY
how is that not clear
Here's a clearer, more coherent argument as to why I think certain people are scummy.
CherryDrPepper
- 216 big ass readslist. why bother! like seriously, why take the time to write one where there's really only a handful of pages to go through for discussion. also, these readslists, as I have come to think, don't really provide much insight into the reasoning behind who's scum/town and seem like a good way to save face / earn towncred by looking like you're scumhunting. I'd rather have people show what they think of other people through their actions/posts.
- pushing me, who's V/LA (who's also set himself up deliberately to look like an easy lynch)
Varsoon
- sudden change of opinion/policy by voting me, as someone pointed out.
- 176 180
conftown sheeping -- townies should be brave enough to go out on a limb to catch scum and wolves.
being conftown doesn't mean that pasche is 100% right.
how i see it is that varsoon knows that pasche is wrong about me and hops on the wagon.
thank you titus for answering my question
@Flench
my question was (now rephrased) "Why do you keep your vote on someone that is V/LA?"
Also can someone please clarify whether or not the heads of a hydra are allowed to talk to each other outside of the game thread?
If yes then I'd be much more serious about the 'lynch all hydras' business.retired
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What makes you think I said that? I just said big ass readslists aren't wholly town motivated.In post 237, Paschendale wrote:Did Saki really just say that being forthcoming with reads and supporting them, and not limiting those reads to popular wagons... is a scumtell?retired
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I pointed out that CherryDP was scummy for making one. my badretired
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The fact is I don't like those big readslists. It helps a person's reputation more than it helps their scumhunting.retired
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What I'm meaning to say is that Varsoon was going "FoS 'cause I'm not sure, FoS 'cause he's V/LA, FoS once more, (insert pasche confirmation that I'm scum), VOTE SAKI"pasche wrote:Weirdly though, the argument about Varsoon is slightly compelling, but only because I've played with and butted heads with Varsoon before. I wouldn't expect him to sheep anyone. But agreement is not sheeping. Worth keeping an eye on. Hardly proof of Saki or Varsoon's alignment.
He isn't necessarily sheeping you but the fact that he voted me right after your confirmation is what bothers me.
@Titus
Yes I don't think CherryDP is doing anything else than saving face with that readslist
So hydra heads can talk to each other? And people are willing to take the risk of scum/wolves having such an incredible advantage?retired
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252, 253
Laughing off my scumread with "oh that was OMGUS"andproviding no coherent counter-argument?
ANDAtE to boot?
Looks like we have our first scum/wolf right here.
UNVOTE:
VOTE: Varsoonretired
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Between CherryDP and Varsoon, I'd prioritize the hydra but I think I can supply a much more clear argument about Varsoon-scumretired
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oh crap forget the mention of wolves in 255retired
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If only you could get into my head and see what I'm thinking atm.In post 258, Titus wrote:@Saki, your vote should be on the person who is most likely scum, not the person who you think you can convince us is scum. You shouldn't be worried about "convincing us" but just giving information right now. Plus, you want to prioritize a hydra solely because they are a hydra at this point. I hate policy lynches.
I do want a lynch on CherryDP over Varsoon but as I said and as you said my case on CherryDP isn't too solid right now.
Yes I should be worried about 'convincing you all' since that's how lynches happen. A single vote from me evokes nothing but a reaction (which I can try to read but seems like it'll be batted off the same way people are batting off all my posts).retired
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It's my first time playing with a hydra and I feel really paranoid about it 'cause I don't know how they work, really. (Same goes for ICs)
I personally feel like we shouldn't risk a hydra being scum, ever but that's just that paranoia flowing through me.retired
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Simply, at the moment, I don't know/understand why Varsoon translated from his buddy-buddy attitude to 253.
I don't like the way he's reacting to the pressure, even if it's coming from me.
I really haven't liked him since the beginning of the thread either, he's acting way too friendly, especially towards Pasche.retired
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Well I haven't really got the sense that people have been reading my posts, other than you or Pasche. Everyone seems more focused on debating whether or not I'm scum.
I'm not trying to convince people over hunting scum but that's what I see other people doing (specifically Cherry and Varsoon) and completely ignoring other people's opinions isn't the way to hunt scum.
I am not 100% focused on convincing you guys over hunting scum. If I wanted to convince you guys that bad I'd get on my own wagon since that's the way you guys are leaning.
Thank you for clarifying Varsoon's play but that opens up a point I was trying to make.
I find it odd that you are pushing a lynch on someone who appears to be wanting to draw attention to himself.
Hey guys isn't that what my wagon is all about?retired
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leave him be not everyone is active as you Titus.
(I am dying to see what people think of me though *squeak*)retired
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I'm playing like a certain someone. Now that I try to lynch that certain someone people start 'throwing shit' back at me. Especially another certain someone on my wagon.In post 267, Saki wrote:I find it odd that you are pushing a lynch on someone who appears to be wanting to draw attention to himself.
Hey guys isn't that what my wagon is all about?
Hypocrisy is a scum-tell, no? That makes for everyone on my wagon to be slightly scummy yet you stood out because you're pushing me so zealously. (You're okay with lynching me but not Varsoon?)
Besides I already made it clear that my play is focused on reaction-fishing.
I thought the readslist argument was over, yet you bring it up again. I don't like those since they mostly do little else than parroting and seem like a good way for scum to look like they are scumhunting. Yes they do bring much to scumhunting but at this point? With all those days 'till deadline and only 10 pages? No. I don't think so. Hence my scumread of it.
Why would scum have no need to form a readslist? It's agreatway to save face and also to pursure mislynches. By the way your readslist seemed more forced than genuine.
UNVOTE:
VOTE: CherryDrPepper
The whole Varsoon lynch thing was a fluke to draw you out. I'm almost certain that you're scum now.retired
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pursue*retired
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meh. If jmo goes V/LA let someone else argue for his lynch while he's V/LA like Cherry did to me.
and my main point was not the readslist argument it was the argument that you guys want to lynch me for wanting attention but not varsoon for wanting attention
which is hypocritical
which puts CherryDP who was pushing for my lynch the strongest in a scummy light
also at the readslist stuff. It's not wholly town-motivated as CherryDP said. The readslist does not make CherryDP more town as he/she says it does.
I personally hate those readslists and that's something that people can't really argue with.
I don't think I should comment on that further. 'negroargument' heh.retired
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I believe hypocrisy is more scummy than town. Why would a townie need to be hypocritical if they were contributing to scumhunting? Scum has more chance to be hypocritical 'cause they know who's scum and who's not and have to deliberately endeavor to create a mislynch.
I thought the readslist argument was over because it's clear that you think of it one way and I think of it another way and we aren't going to change each other's opinions about it.
So scum has no need to create a readslist, eh?
Then why would town create one? Shouldn't they be focused on scumhunting more than town-reading people?
Yes PoE works but at the same time it doesn't work.
P-EDIT
You kinda did.
No, I was focused on how you were so set on lynching me.
"Bigger scumread than Varsoon"
So you do have a scumread on Varsoon? Make that clear please.retired
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How?Varsoon wrote:Saki, you're at L-3. Are you still on VLA? If so, let us know. If no, take off your VLA banner. I don't want to see you hit L-1 and not be able to claim, etc.
Mhmmm. Why not consider the fact that my case on you did have good points and that CherryDP might possibly have a scumread on you.
"Seeking truth" is that not what I was doing by voteswapping. You're getting the wrong idea here.
Why do I have to answer the same question over and over again in different forms?
I have reasons to believe that Varsoon is scum but not as much as CherryDP. I faked going after Varsoon and dropping the CherryDP case once andvoila, there's CherryDP claiming scum.
Also Varsoon, what do you say about attention grabbing? It's what you claim that you're doing yet I'm getting lynched for it and you aren't?retired
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Varsoon, you also talk as if my lynch is already decided.retired
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I agree with your scumread on JMO. Don't think he should be at the bottom, but still I agree that he's more scummy than town. I'd like explanations (even if brief or a gut read) on the people in boldIn post 285, StubbsKVM wrote:Okay, I read through some ISO's and this is what I came up with.
Town
GlassOriole
Paschendale
Leaning Town
Saki
Titus
Dyslexicon
Null
Varsoon
Vote Me
Leaning Scum
CherryDrPepper
Flench
Tunnel Vision
Scum
JMO
That'll have to do for now. If you have any questions, shoot.retired
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Saki Jack of All Trades
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On the other hand I want everyone in this list
-Paschendale
-Flench
-Oriole
-Glass
-Dyx
to please post.
Especially Flench and Pasche who have votes on me. I want to know what you guys think of where this case is going.retired
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Saki Jack of All Trades
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He was not around, then he comes and gives a readslist after catching up. During the time that he was inactive he could not possibly scumhunt or townread anyone.
afaik you were active before you made yours.retired
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I wanted to know about the bolded people in specific because they're people that I have trouble reading.retired
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@Cherry Besides, his reads don't seem as forced as yours. You tried too hard in yours to make it seem like you weren't just parroting.retired
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I try not to think twice before I post. Therefore depriving my posts of a feeling of 'artificial-ness' which is usually in the posts of people who carefully consider how their post might look to others.
My posts therefore would accurately represent my thought process which trades off coherency for truthfulness.retired
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1) uh, sorry?
2) Duh, yes I do. /sarcasm
3) You ISO'd everyone in that short period?
What I don't really like about that readslist was that every single one of your reads was different to what the town was generally saying before it. I interpreted that as you trying hard to make your readslist look genuine and not just parroting.
While it is not bad to have a different opinion to the town if you readeveryonedifferently I find that suspicious. (ofc everyone that could be read)
P-EDIT:
@Mod: Please prod Dyx and Vote Me.retired
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Thanks
retired
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@Stubbs
I take it that you're going to go after JMO today?retired
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This may seem contradictory butI wrote:What I don't really like about that readslist was that every single one of your reads was different to what the town was generally saying before it. I interpreted that as you trying hard to make your readslist look genuine and not just parroting.
While it is not bad to have a different opinion to the town if you readeveryonedifferently I find that suspicious. (ofc everyone that could be read)retired
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I know you said I was scum in 219, Titus, but how far has your scumread developed?
Enough to take your vote off Flench and vote me?
And I do believe that I said my playstyle revolves around deliberately drawing attention. What makes you think, specifically, that I'm not doing that and that my play is scummy/my scumslips are not deliberate?
I've seen people say my play is similar to Varsoon's but also people say my play is not similar to Varsoon's. If you guys could link certain posts which made you think that that'd be great.retired
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Paschendale is conftown. It proves his scumhunting genuine but his scumreads may not always be right.
Paschendale's readslist is also not accurately representative of the town's general opinion.
And also they're not really similar, the only thing that really is similar between the two reads is the read on you, me and Glass (and the conftown+lurkers, that goes without saying)
P-Edit: wb Vote Meretired
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Varsoon being scummy without pressure is town, me being scummy with pressure is scum?In post 308, Titus wrote:In 219, I hadn't said you were scum but I was starting to suspect that you were. I still think Flench is more likely scum than you, so my vote stays on him but if I'm needed to hammer you I will.
Saki, your behaviors (beyond the town points for guessing your AV) seem to be more reactionary than aggressive. For instance, Varsoon's meta conflicts were put there deliberately. You seem to be more OMGUSing, tunnelling and being wishy washy. For instance, you complain people ignore you but you let jmo go right on ignoring you. You claim your vote was on Varsoon because he was the most scummy but then say you didn't mean it when pressured. Varsoon's scummy behaviors seem to be independent of pressure and done whenever we quick focusing on Varsoon. Varsoon has also not tunnelled and seems to be putting forth much more analysis on players who haven't FoSed him at all.
I don't like Varsoon but I have and had no intent of lynching him today. At all. I made that clear in previous posts.
This is why I think people don't read my posts. I specifically said I would be reaction fishing soon and I did (voteswapping to Varsoon) and yet people call me out on it.
So you're saying that me pushing for a Cherry lynch so strongly is 'tunneling' and therefore scummy? By not examining other players I'm scummy? By not suspecting JMO for prod dodging I'm scummy?
And the 'town posts for guessing my AV' why do you keep taking that seriously?
P-Edit :: Their reasons are different. I'll follow up on it next post.retired
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"Paschendale" to "CherryDP"
Reasons for you, for example: "Town but wrong" to "Town, never lynch him"
JMO: "I kinda want to lynch this guy" to "Town, never lynch him"
Also Vote Me, Oriole, and TunnelVision. Their opinions differ a lot.
I don't see why youonlysee them disagreeing on Flench and Stubbs.retired
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"Paschendale" to "CherryDP"
Reasons for you, for example: "Town but wrong" to "Town, never lynch him"
JMO: "I kinda want to lynch this guy" to "Town, never lynch him"
Also Vote Me, Oriole, and TunnelVision. Their opinions differ a lot.
I don't see why youonlysee them disagreeing on Flench and Stubbs.retired
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This is also why I think people are ignoring me.In post 316, Titus wrote:This post is a perfect example of why you are scummy Saki. You are making conflicting points within the same post. You're saying that you want us to listen to you but you also say some of your posts were meant as a joke.
It's not pressure/without pressure totally. It's whether the scummy behavior seems part of an overarching plan. Yours does not seem to be. The whole reaction fishing with Varsoon would have meant more if you had actually kept your vote on Varsoon long enough to gather his reaction. The claim just doesn't pass the smell test to me.
Town points for guessing your AV was one of the more towny things you did if you meant that seriously. I cannot see why you want me to take that as a joke.
When I look at the reads, I'm looking for the most part at the categories Dr. Pepper and Pasch selected. Their conclusions are alarmingly similar and there's a whole lot of nulls. Occasionally their end results do diverge somewhat so I'm not certain Cherry is sheeping Pasch. I think Cherry's thinking for himself at the moment just because the reasons where Cherry agrees with Pasch seem to have a little meat on their bones.
Anything before me going V/LA is a joke. I hope you understand that. I want you to take the 'town points for guessing AV' as a joke because I hold that "Anything before me going V/LA is a joke." It was actually controlled chaos to invoke discussion (and grab attention while I'm at it!) but that's no different from a joke imo.
I don't get how you say there's no 'overarching plan' when I mentioned one in 210.
How many times do I have to say I never had any intention to lynch Varsoon? Sure I don't have him as town.
The only motivation behind my vote on Varsoon was to get Cherry interested. I mentioned that.
How is JMO even in the same category? Pasche has JMO down as scum while DP has a strong townread on him. I don't think their readslists are similar in most aspects.
I also said nothing about Cherry sheeping Pasche. Why bring that up?retired
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I'd really like to hear from Flench and Paschendale. About keeping their votes on me or not.
btw, I will self-vote at L-2 and claim right awayretired
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Oh I thought you had to claim at L-1.
Welp okay I'll claim at L-2.retired
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wait what wouldn't me claiming then putting myself in quick-hammer territory give much more insight into who is scum and who isn't?In post 324, Varsoon wrote:@Saki: You could just claim at L-2 instead of putting yourself in quick-hammer territory. The last thing we need is to have a short D1.
it's risky, but still.retired
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I kinda want to atm.In post 329, Varsoon wrote: @Saki: Claims shouldn't be taken lightly, and there's never reason to vote yourself unless you just want to suicide and yell at town for being incompetent. Okay, well, I did that once, but, yeah, don't.retired
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