Open 511: Diffusion of Power: (Mod Abandoned)

[N64Lord]

sorry, I expected a link to the game thread in my role pm, and it never occured to me to check the open games. Will read through this now.

[N64Lord]

Anyway, venrob makes a succesion of gag posts, and the first sign of being a scum-spect(the natural progression of RVS) he gets defensive in a long post. Saki and nights seemed especially prepared to stick with this wagon, but that's not behavior you can force a read on. I'm going to go sheep pashendale until you people get over your extended RVS.

[N64Lord]

I'm trying to look more closely at where pwnz and DCL

TMT has basically done zero useful scumhunting so far. He's got 2 RVS votes, not even including decent joke reasons. The vote on pwnz is nitpicking over nothing. It looks a lot more like looking for reasons to justify voting than actual suspicion. And then a "why would scum/town do this?" fallacy.

Vote: TMT

Why didn't you do this when DCL tried to "paint" saki as trying to quick lynch. I don't like how you were concillary during DCL's spree, when you could have opened a wagon you had more confidence in than venrob. You just come off as self aware to me.

vote:saki
I'm going to go with a leap of faith and say venmar/radioactive is more likely to flip out as town rather then scum (the ragequiting not his reaction to my RVS vote)
vote:Saki I think there was one scum on the venmar wagon and he fits the bill with his insistence on getting him lynched quickly.
Second choice would be pwnz.

You're saying that venmar's overreaction was scummy, but ragingquitting is town enough for you to forgive all that,? Scum on wagon is horribly out of place argument, and It's almost like you know this argument will die down, so you make sure your case against pwnz wasn't a bombshell.VOTE: DCL
I'd like to hear baezu's opinion on DCL and nights. Radioactive wolf's 159 makes a good points on people being non-commital, and tolerating weak logic.

[N64Lord]

Saki, I'm assuming yu think taskmaster is scum because he "defended" venrob by calling him null? I think it was kind of a pointless post, but I'm not going to consider taskmaster unless I can find a history of passive activity and a reluctance to vote. I kinda feel like he's waiting for some one to call you out so he can jump on it, but activity falloff gets in the way.....
@Paschendale DCL might have put him Saki as a "joke" suspect at the time of the post, but since he mostly stuck with saki afterward, I can't ignore that he started off of weak evidence.
I'm going to take a stab at radioactive wolf when I have the time.

[N64Lord]

Most people's sense of humor is better than such.
Just imagine if Morgan Freeman had been the host of the twilight zone.
I would like to hear why Noctan Nights changed his vote to pwnz, since he never commented for or against him when saki and others called out these posts

by my count i'm l-4. stop voting me or i will dayvig you. If i'm defensive thas cuz i don like retards voting me because i made a fucking joke. get a fucking sense of humor or leave me the fuck alone.

VOTE: Venrob
Venrob should have to claim after making the dayvig joke, or kill one of us before he dies.
I feel like RVS is largely a joke just like you do Venrob, but it really translates like you're serious.

The unvote for Venrob was an EBWOP. I hadn't seen that he had requested out before I made my vote.

@Baezu: The game is only 5 pages old, mostly consisting of a Venrob hissy fit. At least I'm active, which can't be said for mnemonicdevice, N64Lord, TMTOLBTWNTOF or Taskmaster.
Let Task answer the question before you accuse me of not participating.

And the way I'm reading him, he didn't see radioactive's original posts as worth putting aside his scumread on venrob.

[N64Lord]

Change can be scary.... to the weak-Achi, Sin and Punishment

L-1 without asking for a claim? Is DCL the only person who thought this was a serious wagon?
I feel like Saki's rather consistant, even with his post count, and I like how he keeps his vote sharp. I'm seeing DCL's push on saki as coming from town, but that dosen't change the fact that it did nothing.
not getting the baezu vote, please explain the scumminess of the post.
VOTE: zzzx because I can't be sure of his behavior to believe that he will make post based reads on people. !pseudo RVS! that short of a personal attack on the moderator imo.

[N64Lord]

moderator delete the second one please^

[N64Lord]

364-366 explain why this game is not getting anywhere.

[N64Lord]

DCLXVI stands for 666 (roman numerals)

I'm not sure how I feel about 666. Yes, Saki is hurling himself into a bad puddle of bad and rolling around in it and jumping up and down yelling "I'm bad!!", but I don't think it's that scummy. It's too dumb to be scummy. And it's not even all that scummy. 666's whole argument against Saki is based on interactions with Venrob. But apparently nothing since. I think 666's argument is disingenuous and he should know better.

Pashendale is voting him for DCL's fixation with the "bad" way saki tried to get pressure on Venrob, and that it was a obvious argument to pursue, so that from a scum view he could do it and pass it off as active contribution. I think his refusal to look at saki's vote on may have been a scumslip, since it would have mostly undone his case.

[N64Lord]

VOTE: noctannights I'm still seeing him voting pwnz without noting a change in venrob/radioactive's behavior, which he seemed pretty set on, and he kinda answers for DCL with this post.

VOTE: ZZZX
why are all your reads null
why did you include yourself
why do you not have any analysis, just plain information

His reads are all null because he doesn't really have any fucking reads because NOBODY IS POSTING, AND I CAN'T REALLY BECAUSE I HAVE NOTHING TO POST BECAUSE I CAN'T GET ANY FUCKING READS. And he included himself because he either knows he is town, and saying it, or is scum, and is doing it for towncred. He has no analysis because there is no analysis that can be created from null reads, except the few that aren't.

Puttting word in mouth, never helps discussion. Also letting us know he dosen't care about hurting feelings... is an invitation to examine people for self-aware behavior, so I think he actually has a pretty good suspect in spite of his "I can't get any reads"posts.

[N64Lord]

But if our lynch is inactive, we won't have any associations to go off on d2, and we'll get further insult the moderator with a day 2 RVS. DCL's been bad in that he's leaned wildly on whether venrob is scum or town, and he constantly calls saki out for something that I don't see as conclusive, and ignored things saki did that would weaken his argument(saki's suspicsion on other people, saki hunting for taskmaster's intent) .
VOTE: DCLXCI
Pwnz won the prod race, envy him and give up lurking, you won't match his achievement.

[N64Lord]

This reminds me of a game where, lacking information, people started accusing people of anti-fun behavior instead of anti-town behavior.

Now answer why your attack on Saki isn't equally applicable to you?

To clarify, I made my vote on venmar serious because he did what I saw as the first scummy action of the game.
However, it certainly did not deserve a quicklynch which is what Saki was trying to push.

To clarify even further. Did venmar do anything to deserve getting lynched? No.

But then you will probably ask, why did I vote him? Good question.

That would be because he did the first thing that could be categorized as scummy and I was calling it out in an attempt to get out of RVS which I'm not terribly fond of.

At this point of the game, I'm seeing the bolded as a reason for DCL to tunnel on saki, as either of these could have the same intent.

@Baezu: The game is only 5 pages old, mostly consisting of a Venrob hissy fit. At least I'm active, which can't be said for mnemonicdevice, N64Lord, TMTOLBTWNTOF or Taskmaster.
Let Task answer the question before you accuse me of not participating.

Interesting defense using the activity there, for a game that's a day old.
And Active = Town?

VOTE: pwnz

TMT has basically done zero useful scumhunting so far. He's got 2 RVS votes, not even including decent joke reasons. The vote on pwnz is nitpicking over nothing. It looks a lot more like looking for reasons to justify voting than actual suspicion. And then a "why would scum/town do this?" fallacy.

TMT has contributed the least useful posts out of everyone, despite seemingly wanting to say more. N64Lord is a close second, though. Refusal to participate until RVS is over... why don't you contribute something to end RVS yourself?

Vote: TMT

It's interesting to note that baezu unvoted after this, despite not outing any reason as to him being less scummy. I feel like DCL's collison with saki was something he had to do to looking inconstisatn.
@ baezu what did you reread between 424 and 454 to change your read on zzxx, from town to scum; also which posts " legitimized" DCL's push on saki and made it into a wagon?

[N64Lord]

I'm not reading baezu's vote on zzxz as genuine, despite zzxz's sub-par play
VOTE: baezu
I liked muffinz and pashecndale =s asking for comments and activity, but I personally think muffinz should have done a bit to clear the saki and DCL wagons if he had town reads on them and wanted to start a new line of disccusion on taskmaster or myself. It's almost always uniformative to lynch someone who is inactive since they don't form any associations and you'll have to start the next day with a pretty balnk slate. Lurking is bad, but in my experience, arguing against minority votes, even on someone who you have as conftown, will almost always get a better result than policy lynching.

[N64Lord]

I beleive taskmaster's claim,,, since I was suprised the first time I was in a game with a back up role.
As for notscience's argument that pashendale is scum..... I can agree with your thought process but,, I've seen a lot of genuine attempts to get town into discussion, and if he's been over-ready to defuse pressure on pwnz, and a few other people.. It could see ot as trying to get town to focus on the big tells in DCL, Saki, and zzxxzz,, before diving into extraneous stuff.
I am concerned about

Same. I really thought DCL was. ZZZ was pulled just ahead. Was about to

CLAIM INTENT

but then Saki hammered. And everybody was asking people to post and complained about inactivity, so why are you singling ME out?

Because you were doing significantly better earlier on and then declined. And it was noticeable.
Let's hear something good from Saki, I agree.

Since as he pointed out, the discussion early day one was pretty empty due to an activity falloff and even though he was the townie who steped up to the neccesary task of putting the last nail in DCL and Saki's fight, any town who was active would have eventually done, so, or a scum realizing this(making it a null tell). It didn't start town discusion through noctan making any real cases or bringing new thohughts to the table, though, so you and to an extent baezu are trying too ard not to defend him. I'm can't work out noctan's argument with muffinz and the "slips" he made in the middle of it, so if someone could clear it up a little,, that'd be nice.

[N64Lord]

I'm having trouble seeing what the intent is in some of TMT's posts, and I'm not happy with voting someone for being too vague for me to understant. I don't see why Pashendale refers to the "wagon"on Baezu, becaue I'm only seeing 3-4 people who have outed having seen him be suspicious. I want to know if he's trying to get pressure on him and build up his case afterward, and just using generic tells to start this going.

[N64Lord]

I'd say baezu is most likely to be scum.. I feel like the scumhunting he has done dosen't lend itself toward building upon, so he can "doh" out of a read, and town can't really heap his read/vote into something that could actually pressure someone into a slip. I'm not sold on the TMT case... Every time I read this game I have a gut scum feeling on noctannights.. but I'm actually really happy with the important parts of his iso.. it's probbably just because people were giving him town cred mid game for posts I saw as null...
Anyone setting up an argument for the sole purpose of publicly being argued off of it is probbably pushing an agenda.

[N64Lord]

Lynch Baezu.

Also, if town had taken the claim wholesale, it would have set the mafia kills up nicely as oriole,taskmaster. If someone convinced town that it was a fake claim though, inspects would be wasted, and scum would haave more options in who to kill.

[N64Lord]

@ Titus, oriole is second on your "to be lynched"list, but if orioles was scum , taskmaster would be in a lie.

@Paschendale, why isn't someone CCing Taskmaster if Taskmaster is scum? He's claimed he was the user Day 1. I'd imagine someone else would claim Day 1 cop if he wasn't the day 1 cop.

Since this is the extent of your thoughts, I have to see these reads your making as grasping at straws. You defend taskmaster as likely to be cop and then ask us to get his conf read? Lynch worthy!

[N64Lord]

I can't agree with noctan-scum,
I think d3 claim would help scum more than town, unless town randomly got mostly cops and next to no doctors.
Can someone point out to me what posts made taskmaster's claim suspect? I'm reading his "worst"posts as kinda getting around to supporting his d2 argument and case.

[N64Lord]

Scum would not claim cop for a lynch, especcialy on a weaker player, and when they still have their full team.

[N64Lord]

This is now my only game, so I'm going to try to be a stronger reader. At the moment, I feel like taskmaster and Pashendale butting heads is two townies too frustrated to admit the other has made ome productive posts. I'm most interested in 729, , especailly since TMT never weighs in on whether he is satisfied with people's response to his questions...

[N64Lord]

I need to see how much of jhis defense yesterday came from his own mouth, but his play is definately scummy from , "slapping down questions at players not on main wagons to take advantage of town being lurky". It's a tried and true method to stop town from picking up their discussion, and its not coming from town.
VOTE: TMT

[N64Lord]

I'll be V/LA for a bit but I'll still post today. That post will contain all of my thoughts.

And Mod- you have Saki voting both DCL and ZZZ.

Fixed. Thanks. Also, would appreciate knowing when your V/LA is going to end.

V/LA ends Tuesday but I'll still post a bit so I guess it's not really a V/LA but I am technically on vacation.

I know what you're saying, but you're wrong.

Not really...kind of a commn thing in mafia games, but we all have our own opinions don't we?

Who do you think is scum?

Your slot is still very suspicious. What I kind get over is Venrob threatening to davig when there is no dayvig in this set up.

Muffin seems to me as town and I really don't like how you say that Venrob threatening to dayvig is scummy because that would really be idiotic and is more VI behavior.

That's not all, I just don't like it. It's a gut feeling, if I had a solid theory I would have voted, wouldn't I?

Did you not just paste that on now in this post to validate your read? I don't ever recall you talking about this gut feeling.
Plus, what is your read on Muffin's posts?

You're defending this?
He has a reads on muffinz's posts, he dosen't need to repost it in a "@TMT this is my answer."
In the posts that you quote here, you realise he is talking about zmuffinz

slot

and not about the player right...
Anyway, the way you phrased your questions is clearly trying to get town to overlook him arguiing with zmmufinz to clarify what alignment an intent to hammer would make, and anyway, I think its pretty clear that town should be suspicous of players who have a extended pro town burst of activity upon replacing in (quickly playing down bad predeseccors post) and then spend later time apologizing for being lazy, as happened here. It could have been important, because as with Baezu, people were giving him a townread when he had only made posts that were obviosly neccesary for town, and should only have qualiefed him for a null read. It wasn't fair to give him a town read until later, and noctan is in the right at being anxois.

Anyway, you colored this in a way that would definately resulted in town FOS or voting him, and besides that

you're so eager to nip the wagon on you in the bud that you bring your case on a claimed cop up as defense?

[N64Lord]

Missing person report: 0247: Voodoo Lady, last seen refereeing a prod race, has disappeared just an hour before calling whether mmnemoicdevice or Noctan Nights would be todays winner, currently suspected of absconding the premises in search of therpueatic help, authorities have not ruled out the possibility that the runner up resorted to foul play in order to prevent losing his w/l... prod races being a matter of honour most dear.

[N64Lord]

I think saki and noctan are scum at this point, since saki's hammer is very anti-town given that he didn't say anything conclusive for or against TMT leading up to it, and noctan (as) scum, is more worried about how his team is seen, so he put a semi accusing read on what he saw as an obviosly scummy post town would pick up on.

[N64Lord]

Day length and

final

votecount.
day 1 1-644
day 2 647-924
day 3 927-969
day 4 978-1003

I want to know why Noctan Nights claimed that he didn't know why taskmaster voted pasch, since I read his 788 vote as him agreeing with taskmasters case 798

So I saw noctan sheeping taskmaster on d3 but when taskmaster brings his case back up d5, he uses an accusatory tone,

I think I'll put my vote here for now.

VOTE: Pasche

Sorry I haven't been posting too much, busy at the moment.

[N64Lord]

Since Noctan is getting close to replacing out, I'm going to take some anti-aneurysm pills and then try to prove that Saki's town.

[N64Lord]

I'm in so much pain from reading saki's ISO. Anyway, my conclusion is that his perceived scumminess comes from him not really giving specific examples of how he came to think of titus/DCL as scum, and baezu as town(d2). Instead he uses a lot of overreaching posts against to show how "firm" his belief in his choice is even though his vote and how easily he gives up trying to convince others of his reads is basiccally Saki setting himself for a mislynch. The whole thing is like a carbon copy of Evilpacman's play in MINI 1474, with the sole exception that Saki is aware of town not building a wagon on him.

Anyway, things like him bringing up ceritain town players being "regretful" over the zxxzz lynch show his better play.

[N64Lord]

GAME OVER MINI 1474 http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=29925
"Evil Pacman played similar to Saki (intent-wise, not brain from body wise) and mnemonic played in a different, though equally unhelpful way.


Anyway, from what I can tell, you are being less willing to spill your thought process all over the floor this game, but due to an even greater amount of lurking, no one has asked you to correct yourself, and the few people who glossed you with a scumread(saying your wrong without giving any possible purpose) have not done so hard enough to publicily have a "too stupid to be scum" argument later. It made me think you were scum earlier, but it wasn't so awful as zzxzz, baezu, or TMT.

But now you're doing something clearly unpopular, and with the only argument of what you imagined my saki argument was going to be before it came out, so you kinda commited yourself to following through, which I don't see scum doing if they can avoid it, since keeping options on lots of players is easier. EVEN with this last vote, I'm don't know what your posts me in context other than you've been lazy.

[N64Lord]

1019 is directed at Saki, and 1020 is directed at Mnnemoic.

@Mnemoic, you took a post directed at you, assumed it was directed at your town read, and you're citing it as me painting Paschendale as scum? The only people who've made moves to lynch me are zmuffinz(rightly, I had not contributed very much at the time) and now you , so you're revelation that other people have confidence in this is a blatant lie.

If you're going to vote me solely on the grounds of targeting your town read... when I'm asking you questions.... You can't be town. [/vote]MDVOTE:

[N64Lord]

@mnemoic, your whole town read on pashendale was agreeing with his scumreads, and the fact that the wagon on him didn't have a cause. You don't call out the people doing it yourself, only voting them.... until day 4, when pashendale had less credibility, then you decide to find a scummy player, since omgusing taskmaster

for

paschendale would not have gone through. VOTE: MD

[N64Lord]

Mneemoic, you just did a 180 on paschendale based on his last two posts...

Saki is unreadable. Her playstyle is quietly helpful, with lots of random remarks along the way. I do like the idea of Saki-scum, but I like the N64 wagon better. And since there can be only one scum, N64 it is. Also, as I have said before, Pasch is not scum.

Scum has been caught in a lieVOTE: MD

[N64Lord]

I saw saki making a case on pashendale (well a vote) coming from miles away.

But, I've had a feeling that pasch's cases weren't intended to start an argument to get information on who is scum, but instead to outline really obvious slips, both for his "reasons" for town reads, and for scum. He has in fact, been close to coaching town.

666's reaction to Titus might be kinda towny. Who's your counterwagon now, 666? Actually, tell me more about ZZZX. And what's wrong with Baezu?

Noct, what exactly do you want us to do be doing instead of lynching? If you have somethings you want to talk about, talk about them. If you have ideas, share them. Don't sit around, active lurk, and toss out stratagems for townpoints.

Titus is pretty damn towny. I trust the reaction test.

Baezu, if you really think that we should lynch Mnemonic, put some effort into it. One quote and vote hopping is insufficient.

He comes close to admiting that he was in the wrong for focusing on DCL, then tells both Noct and DCL to try to campaign with town for their ideas, neveermind that he's temporarily letting go his

six[/six] TMT is unconditionally scum posts.

If ZZZ needs this much coaching in order to almost provide useful content, then I don't have high hopes for him either way.

Muffin, why are you trying so hard to help him dig his way out of this hole? No townread this early in the game can be that strong.

666 is scummy for a) pushing way harder on a bad wagon that was fueled by quick and emotional reactions than a player with his experience should, b) then lacking in well crafted followup wagons, again as a player with his experience should.

While some town do panic when faced with pressure, I find that scum do it a lot more. Noobtown panic, while more experienced players tend to keep their cool or get angry if they lose it.

N64's contributions have been okay, but too sporadic. I lean town on him.

I don't know about Taskmaster at this juncture.

@Baezu: You call that a reason? "I don't like any of this". Yeah, sure. No, you threw a super sheep vote to push a mislynch and you didn't give any real support for that vote. It was a pretty classic scum move. The OMGUS doesn't help much either.

On pwnz: He's basically not in the game. He hasn't contributed anything and should probably be replaced. So when people want to argue that he's scummy, I want to know why. I don't like when people toss out unsubstantiated reads.

@Taskmaster: What do you mean hypocritical? I voted for four people yesterday. And argued in favor of all four of them. Why are you lying about what I've done? And a "complete 180" on who? Baezu? I basically only criticized him yesterday. Why are you relying on complete fabrications to justify your vote on me? Literally everything you're saying about me is a lie.

You'll realize that he's now saying that zxxzz was an obvious mislynch as reason for voting baezu.

he tries to get town to pick up on taskmaster's unsubstantial hunch, and gives general advice why its bad for town to vote pwnz(and by extentinsion other less active people like MD)

I see N64 as fairly towny. TMT has been scummy the whole game. I had Taskmaster pretty town until this last bit. The blatant lying is hard to ignore.

I had a town lean on Noctan to begin with, but it's been slipping as he flailed around and just complained about inactivity. He started out like he was going to be a solid contributor, and then stopped. Playing it safe by not giving solid opinions and standing behind them feels scum to me.

I'm not sure about Mnemonic. Why do you suspect him?

Titus is playing her fairly standard town game. So, it's not a strong lean, but it's definitely a town lean.

My top two scumreads are dead, and both flipped town. So I'm going to be a little cautious.

He's able to act like his taskmaster read is a new thing...p

if you do a search of taskmaster's post "TMT" and "scum" appear in about 15 of them in just the first two days

.... He realizes that MD hasn't been actually scummy, but could be voted for the wrong reasons, so he's giving people the go ahead to look into him so he can mislynch people he thinks will drop an unconditionl on him.(luckily didn't happen)

HE also knows the intent in Noctan and Titus's posts, but its clear here that while he could explain them plainly, he really really wants to see what town will read into them.

So he witholds what would amount to proof that they are town, to see if there's a chance they will be mislynched.

Also his argument against taskamster's psuedo tunnel on him goes longer than it would if he were town. He slowly gives N64 townreads when it becomes more and more up to N64 to state likely scumpsects. With the exception of TMT, paschendale has been against all wagons on lurkers, and it was in fact his renewed case that finally justified taskmaster's tunnel to me. So yeah, his "interest" in what he hopes I will say after 1006 is more of his waiting game; him trying to get another TITUS lynch. UNVOTE:

[N64Lord]

I think saki and noctan are scum at this point, since saki's hammer is very anti-town given that he didn't say anything conclusive for or against TMT leading up to it, and noctan (as) scum, is more worried about how his team is seen, so he put a semi accusing read on what he saw as an obviosly scummy post town would pick up on.

@voodoo lady, could you remove the bold from: six unconditional "TMT is scum posts" to the end of the third quote?

I want to keep

"You'll realize he is now saying that zzxzz was an obvious mislynch and using it as his case on Baezu"

bolded because it's a really important point.
And bring noctan out of his comatose state, viva electric cattle prod.

[N64Lord]

Let's put it this way.
VOTE: Paschendale

@voodoo Lady, is an extension possible? Two players out at deadline isn't good..

[N64Lord]

Seriously? I'm the most obviously town person left alive. You guys really want to lose this game, don't you? You're letting Noctan skate by, and letting unfounded votes go out on day five. Another apathetic town forfeits the game.

@ Paschendale. you let your call for a Saki lynch die away as soon as someone supports Saki's vote, indicating to me that you beleive saki was scum, and then you call out town for not focusing on Noctan... If you were town, and stuck to your townread, it would ensure Saki was lynched day 6. But instead you just buddy up with him when you're under pressure.

As for Noctan being a claimed cop, It isn't a particularly good motivation for a scum player to call for an inspect for a suspicious player d2, and then use his own on one of his town reads d3.

Saki is playing like his radiantcowbells.... personally I didn't have the same feeling of Saki having a powerful feel for the game until mid d2.... but I was able to assume that they wouldn't unload their reads until there was only 5-6 players left.... I don't understand how they expect to be credible at that point, but It does minimize the chance of scum kills being unpredictable...

At the end of d4 I wanted to try to unite my townreads, noctan and taskmaster, I had only a light town read on saki, and was looking to lynch mnnemoic...
What I noticed most that day was how you made yourself "open to hearing other's peoples arguments", both in the tmt lynch and in my bait post during twilight... This played down how long you wasted fighting for town to second guess taskmaster's cop claim. Also I somehow felt that I carried TMT's lynch despite the fact that you had called him scum 15 times in the first two days alone.

Day 5, noctan abandons the game before I can work an argument that he's town , I reveal a slight town read for saki. Then mmneemoic votes me. that's fine, I really should have voiced my reads more often, and have been as lazy as the rest of you over the course of this game, not to mention vague as fuck(smallest post count)

But I had to omgus on mneemoic, because he also gave paschendale, the only person who I had a case on, an unconditional town read. Then saki finnally, finally gets around to voting Paschendale. When I see that mnnemoic takes paschendales verbal support of my case seriosly, I realize that paschendale himself does not, especially when he suddenly reverses his stance on lurkers in order to vote SAKI.

So I'm going to let this sit here until someone hammers paschendale, because he disowned his vote on saki 1043 when a his "town"flip on a saki driven counterwagon would prove that Saki was scum. He disowns the vote, because Paschendale is scum, is resorting to buddying up with the people on his wagon and throwing out generalites of "good town" behaviour to prove he is town instead of actually scumhunting or looking at people's ISO, or anything.

[N64Lord]

This site gets another first! One of the players put out a replacement request before the moderator!

[N64Lord]

So I was saying that paschendale as scum would look at the other players as such

Saki person pushing noctan's wagon the hardest, has support of n64, making a lynch only look good if it dosen't come from him.
Noctan Only needs one of Saki+N64 to get off wagon, can get town cred with mmnemoic by accusing above of tunneling/bad play.
MmnemoicDevice He would have to get both people on his wagon to switch, which would make no sense from town player, who would definately see a scum agenda from one of them for voting him.

Paschendale isn't playing to start a wagon on one of the "lurkers" but instead to get any of the other players to put a case out there, making focus on who has responsibilty for today's lynch, something that is most important for scum, who needs to get a

mislynch today and a good case to build on tomorow

. "He pushed a townie mislynch" is a classic, and at this point it's looks exactly like Paschendales agenda.

[N64Lord]

First you accuse me of telling you to tunnel, and now I'm misrepping you as pushing on multible players?

[quote="In

I like every part of this post.

I feel like Saki is getting backed into wall more because he's clumsy, not because he's scum.

Still haven't seen any reason to take my vote off of TMT. I lean town towards Taskmaster.

I'm not sure how I feel about 666. Yes, Saki is hurling himself into a bad puddle of bad and rolling around in it and jumping up and down yelling "I'm bad!!", but I don't think it's that scummy. It's too dumb to be scummy. And it's not even all that scummy. 666's whole argument against Saki is based on interactions with Venrob. But apparently nothing since. I think 666's argument is disingenuous and he should know better.

Saki, do you do this in every game you play?

Vote: DCL

after this, your mentions of Saki kinda just state him as your second scummiest(until n5) but during that time, the votes that you do place come about in a just as controversial manner as this one, which dosen't fit with the thought process you give to town at all. It's a what do you want to see town do VS. I'm going to open the game up by scumhunting and pressuring people into a slip.
You've reacted extremely badly to the pressure you're under, and it's moer a reason to see you as scum.

[N64Lord]

Noctan's flaked from all his games, so it's not some kind of B-horror agreement he has with the moderator that he set up via PM.

Only me, you, and Saki had any motivation, so it's technically viable for any one of us to use up the mislynch and take out the other two for a town win.

Even if I had seen both you and Saki as null, it would have been you first, if only because Saki did the exact thing Evil Pacman did in my last game, summed up here.

You put in effectively no analysis, went whole days without generating content whilst bitching about how boring the game was, alienated the obvtown md to the point that his lylo vote on you was inevitable, and filled the thread with meaningless noise posts.
Basically, the scum weeded out all the town skill and left you in a predictable lylo of your own making.

[N64Lord]

its a quote from 1614's post game anaylis. Also it says . "obvtown md"meaning obvtown mnemoic device

I think this twilight accusation of yours confirms why we voted you......