Open 496: Ryuk is the protagonist

Titus · Post Post #1261 (isolation #0) » Thu Aug 01, 2013 6:39 pm

Here now. I am in RBD's slot. Reading now.

Titus · Post Post #1264 (isolation #1) » Fri Aug 02, 2013 3:29 am

In post 1235, ArcAngel9 wrote:I am bored with thsi game anywayz
lets get done with this

VOTE: Psyche

Why are you in a hurry to end the game? That doesn't seem like town motivation. Plus, you don't really expand before voting on a claimed doctor. Why?

VOTE: ArcAngel9

Almost caught up, just processing what I have seen.

Titus · Post Post #1266 (isolation #2) » Fri Aug 02, 2013 4:30 am

In post 1265, ArcAngel9 wrote:lamest reason to vote someone ever!!!!!!!
How does it was only me? Scum found!!!!!!

VOTE: Titus

Lack of town motivation in going after he doctor is hardly "lame".

Then your question is incomprehensible and you turn your vote to an OMGUS on a clear. Yeah, I am prett sure my vote is in the right place.

Titus · Post Post #1268 (isolation #3) » Sat Aug 03, 2013 3:51 am

Mod: Can we get a prod of umm almost everyone?

Titus · Post Post #1273 (isolation #4) » Sun Aug 04, 2013 4:06 pm

ArcAngel9 - VT
Scott Brosius/Bacde - T1 (but no specific role I saw)
Psyche - Doctor
Titus - VT
Rubicon - Gunsmith
SafetyDance - VT
Tajun - VT

Everyone, do I have this right? I'm pretty sure this is right, but while the game is at a slow point I want to be sure.

Titus · Post Post #1291 (isolation #5) » Tue Aug 06, 2013 2:18 pm

Why is Tajun "pushing hard for a mislynch"? I don't see her pushing hard on anything considering her vote is on no one.

Welcome Anti-hero. Feel free to chime in.

Titus · Post Post #1294 (isolation #6) » Tue Aug 06, 2013 6:01 pm

In post 1292, Antihero wrote:VOTE: mutley

How is he still alive at this point after the beginning of Day 2? Just...blatantly lying about how he completely meant to hammer Rach when he says otherwise himself right after the hammer (that's the kicker, not the hammer itself). The way he treated pasch at the end of yesterday...the stupid psyche vote...

This guy couldn't be any more confirmed scum if he had a cop guilty on him.

Link the post please?

Titus · Post Post #1297 (isolation #7) » Tue Aug 06, 2013 6:50 pm

VOTE: mutley

I really want mutley's explanation for that.

Titus · Post Post #1306 (isolation #8) » Wed Aug 07, 2013 5:10 pm

In post 1299, Psyche wrote:Woops, there's mutley's bud.

Who is this post even referring to?

Titus · Post Post #1308 (isolation #9) » Thu Aug 08, 2013 3:14 am

AA9 seems too reactionary and not thinkings through enough to be town.

Mutley's hammer was just off.

By PoE, the others are likely town. They haven't done a lot that would raise suspicion other than the doctor votes.

Titus · Post Post #1310 (isolation #10) » Thu Aug 08, 2013 4:14 am

In post 1309, Mutleyddmc wrote:Hammer was on actually. Hence why it was the hammer

The hammer was off was an idiom meaning the hammer was suspicious.

Titus · Post Post #1312 (isolation #11) » Thu Aug 08, 2013 5:07 am

What are your reads on AA9, Elise and Tajun?

Titus · Post Post #1314 (isolation #12) » Thu Aug 08, 2013 8:27 am

In post 1313, Mutleyddmc wrote:Scum more scum town

Care to elaborate?

Titus · Thu Aug 08, 2013 10:11 am

In post 1129, Tajun wrote:Dear. God. No.

A gunsmith requires two Rs. Why has no one read the setup properly? The claimed roles give us PPHRRTT. RBD, you're supposed to be one of the smart ones...

Four possibilities:

a) All PR claims are good. No SK, scum used one of RB, Strongman or bus driver to bypass protection on JW.
b) One of JS, Bacde or Psyche fakeclaimed, we have an SK and one kill was blocked (or both hit the same person).
c) Rubicon fakeclaimed, no SK, strongman or RB used to bypass protection.
d) Two of JS, Bacde or Psyche fakeclaimed, no SK, strongman or RB used to bypass protection.

Option c) is massively unlikely, gunsmith claim would be a very risky choice, since it can't be expected to coexist with a RC (awfully unlikely anyway), and Rubicon was awfully eager to get it out there. Option d) is even less likely, both scum claiming PRs? Nah.

b) and a) are both possible. My money is on a), but we'll likely know soon enough whether we have an SK and need to look through our PR's for the odd man out. Either way, SafetyDance is effectively clear.

Rubicon shouldn't target the PRs. Target VTs.

I believe the group has gone with Option A of the posts by Tamjun awhile back. I like it, so I'm going along with it.

Titus · Post Post #1329 (isolation #14) » Thu Aug 08, 2013 3:57 pm

I am down for either a Mutley or an AA9 lynch. AA9's response is melodramatic and possibly breaks the site rules by calling a player brain damaged. I cannot see town motivating in his overreaction.

Titus · Post Post #1332 (isolation #15) » Thu Aug 08, 2013 4:10 pm

In post 1331, ArcAngel9 wrote:
In post 1329, Titus wrote:I cannot see town motivating in his overreaction.
And again.. can you stop making gender typos..... this is not the first time you're doing.
And hello? what do you mean town motivation. so your point is what Tajun is doing is very town motivating..

"Oh wait..you may be town but you post lame.. Mutley posts more..so he get to live even he looks scummy"

How the hell that looks to you town motivated behavior????

It seems to me that he's made a decision that both of you are scummy and he'd rather lynch you more.

In post 1330, ArcAngel9 wrote:
In post 1329, Titus wrote:possibly breaks the site rules by calling a player brain damaged
Since when calling someone brain wrecked is site violation, so you call someone Village idiot, Derp and can officially tag them on board site but not someone brain wrecked or damaged. WHAT THE HELL YOU LOOKING AT??

Brain damaged appears to be a personal insult. Village idiot is a concept. Derp is an innocent mistake which I have done from time to time myself.

I will try to watch the gender typos.

Titus · Post Post #1335 (isolation #16) » Fri Aug 09, 2013 5:56 pm

I like Tajun so far. He seems to be really analyzing the game, looking at his scum choices carefully rather than personally. I can't see myself lynching him today.

What do you think of Elyse?

Titus · Post Post #1337 (isolation #17) » Sat Aug 10, 2013 3:32 am

It seems you are not reading. I am on mutley, because that is who I want to lynch today. I have no interest in putting personal quarrells above lynching the objectively suspicious hammerer.

Tajun is the closest thing to obvious town amongst the uncleared. I believe your argument against Tajun is one of desperation to avoid getting you partner mutley lynched.

Why is Tajun scum?

Titus · Post Post #1339 (isolation #18) » Sat Aug 10, 2013 3:41 am

Which thoughts of Tajun aren't coming from a town mindset? I see Tajun's mindset as pretty clearly town. He was guiding discussion, analyzing setup appropriately. Tajun's read on you being scum I happen to agree with. I just see mutley as objectively scummier.

Wall up Tajun please. Give examples.

Titus · Post Post #1342 (isolation #19) » Sat Aug 10, 2013 4:09 am

I can go for AA9.

Her

refusal to explain the Tajun case (just saying no one will listen) is pretty damn scummy.

However, if you and Tajun want an AA9 lynch why aren't you voting her?

Titus · Post Post #1344 (isolation #20) » Sat Aug 10, 2013 5:26 am

Of course, AA9 hammers in self preservation when the train might turn to her. I really think that slot is scummy.

Titus · Post Post #1346 (isolation #21) » Sat Aug 10, 2013 7:02 am

Yes. With 9 alive, 5 hammers. VC on the top of the page has four voting for mutley. None unvoted. Add AA9's vote. That's 5. We've got a hammer.

Titus · Post Post #1353 (isolation #22) » Wed Aug 14, 2013 8:47 am

Well if that isn't a scumtastic overreaction. I think you and AA9's slot are the scums.

VOTE: AA9

Titus · Post Post #1355 (isolation #23) » Wed Aug 14, 2013 9:36 am

In post 1354, Elyse wrote:Ok cool

Your response to me FoSing you is cool?

Titus · Wed Aug 14, 2013 11:00 am

Agreed. If AA9 gets to L-1 before our PRs contribute, I will unvote.

@Elyse, you being scum is a most likely PoE.

We've cleared the PRs. So that's Scott, Psyche, and Antihero. Antihero's slot has cleared me previously.

That leaves AA9, Tajun and you as scum.

Tajun seems very town to me.

That leaves you and AA9.

Titus · Post Post #1373 (isolation #25) » Thu Aug 15, 2013 2:52 am

Both the PRs cleared Tajun.

I figured one would do something different.

Titus · Post Post #1375 (isolation #26) » Thu Aug 15, 2013 3:18 am

Finally have confirmation? Did you suspect this before?

Vote Count:
ArcAngel9- Elyse, Titus,

Not Voting: AntiHero, ArcAngel9, Bacde, Psyche, Tajun

Titus · Post Post #1384 (isolation #27) » Thu Aug 15, 2013 3:57 pm

1) All is as it naively appears, Elyse and AA9 are scum.

2) Antihero is lying (ie scum), one of the people who are not clear (Elyse, AA9) or Titus are the partners.

3) Both Psyche and Scott are lying scumbags.

4) One of Psyche or Scott are liars, we have an SK and two remaining scum (AA9 and Elyse), along with the lying PR).

5) Titus was bus-driven night two (and is the scum), one of AA9 and Elyse is the partner.

A lot of your possibilities are actually similar.

This really boils down to

1) AA9 and Elyse are scum. This one happens to be my favorite. The pair kill off the other VTs so we assume the PRs are lying.

2) Antihero scum with a VT. Possible. This one requires the least amount of PRs lying.

3) Possible. Rubicon was the last to claim T1 but the first to claim his specific role. That role being absent allows for two PR claims to sneak by under the radar as long as neither claims an R. Also, I find it odd that scum hasn't shot the doctor yet. This suggests either 1 or 3 as the likely scenario. Two could be possible, but I cannot answer why the doctor wouldn't have been shot near or around the roleclaim, instead of shooting the jailor.

4) Any scenario with an SK I find ridiculous unless Psyche has gotten lucky every single night. The simplest solution is usually the right one, therefore SK is likely out.

5) A bus driver my gut tells me that is highly unlikely. A town bus driver likely would have claimed. A scum bus driver hitting on one night is possible. Yet, is more likely for later clears than earlier ones to mess things up. There's simply fewer targets. Given the mafia only has one shot if the bus driver is in the game... I don't really like this possibility.

-----------------------

@Antihero/Tajun, that's pretty right. That would only work if we no lynched today. Then, that would put us in lylo with two scums. That's not a position I want to be in Antihero.

@Scott, You should not hide if we do not lynch scum. If you hide behind a scum, you'd be right and dead. Then the rest of us would be endgamed.

Titus · Post Post #1385 (isolation #28) » Thu Aug 15, 2013 3:58 pm

** 2 supposes if any of the PRs are lying.

Titus · Post Post #1387 (isolation #29) » Thu Aug 15, 2013 4:29 pm

I answered that. You kill the VTs in order to suggest that the PRs were lying. After all, you implanted that idea awhile back according to your own statements. What is the safest thing for scum to claim? VT. When the PRs don't die, it naturally increases our suspicion on the PRs. You just vote whatever PR is NOT your buddy until you are forced to. After you vote him, you start babbling on about how the PRs must be lying.

You had voted AA9 previously, but that interaction looks like scum theatre with veiled coaching. It's the only time I have ever seen you use all caps and you threaten to policy lynch him. Plus, I don't really see your thoughts around her slot as genuine.

I also don't like your request to be cleared. It makes no sense what so ever.

That's not a certain theory but it makes sense with Occam's Razor. The simplest solution is usually the right one. Your behavior, combined with the fact that it requires no PRs to lie, makes me very partial to this theory.

Titus · Post Post #1392 (isolation #30) » Fri Aug 16, 2013 5:16 am

In post 1391, Elyse wrote:@Titus
You're over thinking this. Take those tunnel vision glasses off. If you think I'm scum with Arc just stop.

I wouldn't kill off the only players that might be lynched ahead of me as scum. Simple as that.

Except SafetyDance was a clear. Scum hate clears. You'd have to convince the group a pr was scum before anyone would feel comfortable lynching SafetyDance. Killing SafetyDance therefore makes sense.

VOTE: elyse

Titus · Post Post #1393 (isolation #31) » Fri Aug 16, 2013 5:32 am

@Anti-hero, whatever the scums do, whoever they are gives us a lot of information. No lynching takes away information. I cannot be a fan of a no lynch plan.

Titus · Post Post #1395 (isolation #32) » Fri Aug 16, 2013 7:50 am

Link? I want to know exactly what the theory is before I say yes or no on that.

Titus · Post Post #1398 (isolation #33) » Fri Aug 16, 2013 7:58 am

Antihero, I won't be happy with a no-lynch. If we successfully lynch scum, hiding words. If we mislynch, hiding is horrible. No lynch allows scum to just passively play the game and then go well see no lynch the hider can do all the work for us.

Even then, what happens if the hider hides behind scum? There's no last will here. We won't know who the hider is hiding behind.

Titus · Post Post #1406 (isolation #34) » Fri Aug 16, 2013 5:55 pm

@Tajun, the plan makes sense, but I'm always hesitant to go with a no lynch day. I'm going to sleep on this.

@Elyse, how can we dictate who the doctor would heal? Even if we tried it, scum would know everything we tried to communicate. I don't think the plan depends on Psyche's judgment though. If it did, that would be horrible as Psyche isn't 100% clear.

As for the likely scum scenarios, to me it makes sense. Given the PRs claimed so early, I would be surprised if any of them were lying. I know I'm clear and one of the PRs cleared Tajun. That leaves you and AA9's slot left.

Supposing for a moment that Anti-hero's prior slot lied. It would likely require that one of the other VTs were scum.

Supposing that one of psyche/scott is lying, the other is almost certainly.

That is how the JK9++ setup works I believe.

Titus · Post Post #1408 (isolation #35) » Fri Aug 16, 2013 7:30 pm

Right and I am not buying Psyche as a supergenius who hit everyone of the sks attacks and an sk never attacking the doc along with the mafia never hitting the doc. Therefore, I do not buy an sk.

Titus · Post Post #1410 (isolation #36) » Sat Aug 17, 2013 1:20 am

Shouldn't you know the answer to this?

Titus · Sun Aug 18, 2013 11:44 am

In post 1412, Psyche wrote:Maybe I gave up my life of serial killing so that I might pose as the doctor for the game?

Posts like this make me REALLY want to vote you. I bet you are kidding but these posts drive me up the wall as I tend to take this literally a lot.

Titus · Post Post #1418 (isolation #38) » Mon Aug 19, 2013 5:50 am

In post 1413, Scott Brosius wrote:Need to wrap my head around this plan

Do you understand this plan yet?

Does it give anyone else the heebie jeebes not to lynch? The plan is good but my gut is yelling at me that no lynching is bad.

Titus · Post Post #1425 (isolation #39) » Mon Aug 19, 2013 3:14 pm

So are we in a holding pattern until then?

Vote Count:
NoLynch-2-AntiHero, Elyse,
Elyse-1-Titus,

Not Voting: ArcAngel9, Bacde, Psyche, Tajun

Titus · Post Post #1427 (isolation #40) » Wed Aug 21, 2013 9:26 am

A holding pattern would be ideal? Really? Even if we are going no lynch, we should still use the time to scum hunt.

Titus · Post Post #1434 (isolation #41) » Fri Aug 23, 2013 6:42 am

Lightkun, I cannot go along with a player who played a previous role replacing ino a different slot. I am willing to cross replace into a game of similar size.

Titus · Post Post #1435 (isolation #42) » Fri Aug 23, 2013 6:43 am

If you cannot get a replacement like that, I might try calling in a favor.

Titus · Post Post #1438 (isolation #43) » Sun Aug 25, 2013 7:29 am

Mod, do you have a replacement for AA9 or should I call my favor in?

Titus · Post Post #1440 (isolation #44) » Sun Aug 25, 2013 6:55 pm

Can we try mass prodding?

Titus · Post Post #1455 (isolation #45) » Mon Aug 26, 2013 5:43 pm

I generally offer assistance a lot. I want smooth games. I can be a dick about rules, but I want fun games with active players. PMing now.

Titus · Post Post #1456 (isolation #46) » Mon Aug 26, 2013 5:46 pm

In post 1452, Tajun wrote:If we go with the plan (no lynch)? I damn well hope so.

If not? If he hides, he is effectively throwing the game away.

If Scott hides after a good lynch, it's ok. He's gamethrowing if he hides after a mislynch possibly. If he should hide after a no lynch.

Titus · Post Post #1469 (isolation #47) » Tue Aug 27, 2013 4:18 pm

How could you forget about me, Elyse.

Tajun, can you grab the setup possibilities we discussed awhile back.

Prophy, [I may call Prophy "Porio" from time to time. I met him on a different site with that name.]

Basically, we have the following realistic scum possibilities.

You/Elyse as scum (All PRs telling the truth. Anti-Hero "cleared" my slot awhile back and has cleared Tajun so if all PRs tell the truth, y'all are the scum team.)
Anti-Hero/One of the VT claimers but for Elyse (Supposes Anti-Hero is lying and buddied people)
Scott Brosius (now majiffy?) with Psyche (Both Doctor and Hider are lying)

One of the above must be the right answer unless there is an SK or a mafia bus driver that is good at guessing. An SK is ridiculous in this scenario but theoretically possible. There just haven't been enough deaths. Mafia guessing is possible too I guess but I don't like that answer.

Titus · Post Post #1477 (isolation #48) » Wed Aug 28, 2013 2:49 pm

I've been believing that because Elyse looks scummy and has dumb selection targets that the scum might be keeping her and Scott alive is because they have to be scum together. I'm not 100% certain on this theory of scum behavior but it makes sense. In my prior post, I deduced the likely possible setups. The game is JK9++ Setup Link Here

That theory is why I prefer your slot and Elyse as scum over Scott and Psyche.

Titus · Post Post #1482 (isolation #49) » Wed Aug 28, 2013 5:25 pm

VOTE: Psyche

If you cannot see that bad selection targets are an indicator of a scum doctor claimer, then you are really confused at best. Doctors should be healing the logical targets to be shot, not healing the trolls. The replacement request, given how inactive people are is a null. Lurking is quite frequently, but not always scummy.

Basically, your response is, all of my scummy behaviors could be town. Yeah, but they likely aren't.

Titus · Thu Aug 29, 2013 12:17 pm

Tajun is cleared by both Scott and Antihero. Therefore Tajun cannot be scum.

http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=JK9%2B%2B

This setup should lead you to the conclusion that there is likely no SK and therefore there are two scum remaining. We have claims of Hider, Doctor and GS.

All of the PRs could be telling the truth. If that is true, then the scum team must be Prophy and Elyse.
If Psyche is lying

like I believe to be the case

, then Scott Brosious's slot (meaning Majiffy) must also be scum.
If Antihero is lying, then he is scum with a vt other than Tajun because Tajun was cleared by Scott's slot.

Why is Psyche obvtown? I find her answers scummy as hell.

Titus · Post Post #1522 (isolation #51) » Thu Aug 29, 2013 4:10 pm

In post 1517, Majiffy wrote:
In post 1513, Titus wrote:If Psyche is lying
like I believe to be the case
, then Scott Brosious's slot (meaning Majiffy) must also be scum.
If my slot is down does that mean Psyche's
must
also be town? Because that would make my life easier.

Yes. That is why I put no stock in your defense of Psyche without something more than "Gee it doesn't sound scummy to me". You two are the only pair at the hip like that.

Titus · Post Post #1525 (isolation #52) » Thu Aug 29, 2013 6:53 pm

Tajun is the conftown. Both your slot and Anti-hero have confirmed Tajun. You and Anti-Hero cannot be scum together. Therefore, Tajun is town.

Psyche, any plan that ends in a no lynch is one I'll naturally oppose. I've already said that. Please link me to anything else I may have missed.

The reason you two are paired at the hip is because the setup dictates that you two are aligned together. Otherwise, the letters would be off I believe. I'll explain this in the morning if Tajun doesn't beat me to it.

Vote Count:

NoLynch-2-AntiHero, Elyse,
Psyche-2-Prophylaxis, Titus,
Titus-1-Psyche,

Not Voting: majiffy, Tajun

Titus · Post Post #1532 (isolation #53) » Sun Sep 01, 2013 7:58 am

Yes, which is why I am so reluctant to follow it.

Titus · Post Post #1534 (isolation #54) » Sun Sep 01, 2013 5:13 pm

Well let's look at Pros and cons

No Lynch
We might clear someone or confirm a person as scum depending on Majiffy's hide. We'd have to be certain on who Majiffy was hiding on. Given he's fine with the AH plan, he's probably hiding behind Anti-Hero. So that might give us clear direction tomorrow, provided that Majiffy/Psyche is not scum. If you think Psyche is scum then going along with this plan is pointless because you believe Majiffy is scum and is lying about being a hider.

Supposing Majiffy is town (which I don't buy due to Psyche's scumminess) then going forth with AH's plan makes more sense but not total sense because no one is being made to put their foot to the fire to determine who is scum. If Majiffy dies, then we get a clear Psyche and can confirm Anti-Hero is scum and lynch him.

That's part of the reason this baffles me. I cannot see Anti-Hero proposing this plan if he really was scum. That would just ensure his own lynch. At the same time, that could be arrogant/overconfident scum to have us not call him out on his plan and driving us towards the result he wants (mislynching his desired target). Of course, Anti-Hero cannot propose the mislynch.

VOTE: Unvote

I don't want scum to hammer in case my fears about Anti-Hero being a manipulative SOB are accurate. Psyche is still my top scum read but Anti-Hero might be pulling a fast one here.

Titus · Post Post #1543 (isolation #55) » Tue Sep 03, 2013 2:20 pm

Majiffy - Town Hider who never hid. I find this odd. A hider who never hides withholds valuable information from the town. Then, he later hides behind the town leader as his only hide. Tajun's slot has been the most town of the VTs, so claiming to "clear" that slot could be the scums currying favor. Remember, scums absolutely hate clears until required.

Elyse - I'm a little iffy on that slot. Elyse tries to limit Majiffy's read. She then forgets about players. #889 seems to be against the mass claim although it has put us in a pretty good position right now with this setup. Elyse out of any of the VT claimers would be the one to do the whole make sure the PRs lynch each other to ensure the VT scums live. She hasn't put forth much analysis since the vote to no lynch.

As a common sense proposal, I find difficult for scum to fake claim a PR in this setup. At the same time, I also have the dissonance with the doctor and the hider living so long? Why wouldn't scum kill them? Why do Psyche's heal targets suck? Why wouldn't VT scum kill one PR set and then accuse the other of lying?

Basically, my gut screams Psyche is the scum due to her behavior but I have major cognitive dissonance here because the play makes no sense.

Titus · Post Post #1551 (isolation #56) » Wed Sep 04, 2013 8:57 am

I don't like a no lynch but that seems to be the way we are going.

Titus · Post Post #1554 (isolation #57) » Wed Sep 04, 2013 5:55 pm

Waiting on Prophy's analysis.

Titus · Post Post #1556 (isolation #58) » Thu Sep 05, 2013 2:42 am

VOTE: No lynch

Titus · Post Post #1558 (isolation #59) » Thu Sep 05, 2013 2:46 am

Will do today.

Titus · Post Post #1574 (isolation #60) » Mon Sep 09, 2013 4:46 pm

VOTE: Anti-Hero

It seems pretty clear that we have an Anti-Hero plus one VT (other than Tajun) scum team. Let's hold off lynching Anti-Hero until the deadline and use the rest of the time to scum hunt.

@Mod: V/LA might be next week. Work is yanking my chain.

Titus · Wed Sep 11, 2013 10:30 am

bump prod dodge

Any results on that analysis Prophy?

Titus · Wed Sep 11, 2013 10:31 am

Not V/LA btw. Work yanked my chain.

Titus · Fri Sep 13, 2013 11:11 am

I am considering that Prophy but I like Elyse as scum more. My attention is now turned towards getting the obvscum.

Titus · Post Post #1591 (isolation #64) » Fri Sep 13, 2013 5:34 pm

I've read the comments here and I will provide more insightful comments later but I'll respond from the gut for now.

@Tajun, Really, you think I've been going with the flow. I feel like the flow has been following me. I do agree with Anti-Hero clearing my slot looks bad, but you have to look at the general intelligence of the players who were doing that at the time that "clear" was posted. Do you really think they'd buddy up so well? Very risky with little reward. If the fake gunsmith withholds ever checking his teammate, they can just go around shooting the clears and the gunsmith can bus his teammate by claiming a guilty. Trying too hard, really Tajun? That IS me. I do everything I do 100%. If you see me halfass something, that is a scum tell, a gambit tell, or a real life is too damn busy tell. I agree with your thoughts on finding the partner, I just think you are totally wrong.

@Prophy, I usually don't do PBPA on my own slots when I replace in. I'll presume you mean something akin to analyzing them if they were not me. I'll suppose that is what you meant if you don't clarify for me by the time I get around to doing that tomorrow.

Titus · Post Post #1592 (isolation #65) » Fri Sep 13, 2013 5:35 pm

I've read the comments here and I will provide more insightful comments later but I'll respond from the gut for now.

@Tajun, Really, you think I've been going with the flow. I feel like the flow has been following me. I do agree with Anti-Hero clearing my slot looks bad, but you have to look at the general intelligence of the players who were doing that at the time that "clear" was posted. Do you really think they'd buddy up so well? Very risky with little reward. If the fake gunsmith withholds ever checking his teammate, they can just go around shooting the clears and the gunsmith can bus his teammate by claiming a guilty. Trying too hard, really Tajun? That IS me. I do everything I do 100%. If you see me halfass something, that is a scum tell, a gambit tell, or a real life is too damn busy tell. I agree with your thoughts on finding the partner, I just think you are totally wrong.

@Prophy, I usually don't do PBPA on my own slots when I replace in. I'll presume you mean something akin to analyzing them if they were not me. I'll suppose that is what you meant if you don't clarify for me by the time I get around to doing that tomorrow.

Titus · Post Post #1596 (isolation #66) » Sat Sep 14, 2013 3:17 am

VOTE: unvote

I will check on that site. I usually ignore games I am in after I die.

Titus · Post Post #1608 (isolation #67) » Sun Sep 15, 2013 7:06 pm

That post was taken before Majiffy's flip Psyche. At the time, I did agree with Prophy and I thought you were lying about your doc claim.

The post is a common theorectical argument. I started from the assumption you were a doctor. However, selecting bad targets so frequently was an indication you weren't a doctor at all.

My pbpa is coming. Had a busy weekend.

Titus · Post Post #1610 (isolation #68) » Sun Sep 15, 2013 7:30 pm

By barning, I am going to mean sheeping. You sentiments are ones that I expressed myself prior to replacing in. Plus, if I was wrong, there was a theorectical chance that Psyche could have healed someone correctly. I had scum reads on both slots but decided against pushing Psyche but pushing AA was better due to the less loss that would occur if I was wrong. I did a punnet square of risk reward in my head and decided AA9 was the better play. However, the lynch train didn't seem to be going for AA9. Rather, if I was going to get a lynch on a scum read, I had to change to Psyche.

Any plan that requires no lynching (outside of mylo) gives me the creeps. It seems to have worked this time luckily.

Titus · Mon Sep 16, 2013 12:32 pm

In post 1611, Psyche wrote:
The post is a common theorectical argument. I started from the assumption you were a doctor. However, selecting bad targets so frequently was an indication you weren't a doctor at all.
does not follow

What doesn't follow? Starting from an assumption, applying the facts and then seeing the facts were not being consistent with the assumption. Therefore, I believed the assumption was false. Assuming and testing is a common theoretical and scientific action. Testing the hypothesis.

Titus · Post Post #1615 (isolation #70) » Mon Sep 16, 2013 1:16 pm

Prophy, here's that PBPA analysis you requested I do of my own slot. I included relevant interactions I saw with our prime scum suspect. I refer to the slot in the third person because a) it wasn't me that wrote it and b) it helps maintain some pretense of neutrality.

DBK 130 posts. He focuses heavily in the early game towards breaking out of RVS. 72 on Keyblade seems to be very town motivated. #202 is DBK encouraging activity for the game. Again, no reason for scum to drive up the activity level. He does a catchup post in 328/329 where he votes the obvious scum (RachMarie). I wanted to see where my slot fell on the wagon on Appozle so I clicked and started reading backwards and found #238 by Rubicon (Anti-Hero's prior slot).

Regarding DBK's position on the Apozzle/RachMarie train, Orozzo/Rubicon/Anti-Hero was the first on that train and it was a random vote (41). Paschendale votes Appozle. Then DBK votes Appozzle. Positioning on the train again suggests that DBK is town. With 7 to lynch, you would expect scum to be on the back end of a day one bus, not at the front. This further suggests that DBK is town. DBK does more than just suggest that Appozzle is scum. When AA9 essentially fenceshitted and defended the slot in 498, DBK FoSed AA9 in 499.

Rubicon suggests that DBK is scum for saying things are not slips. Rubicon wouldn't bus his two (presumably) scum buddies day 1. DBK does give a read list in 535 that has Rubicon (the consensus scum target) as town.

Looking through the ISO of DBK, I cannot see where a rational player could think our slot is scum.

Turning to RBD.

RBD lead to charge to the massclaim which has essentially given us one of the scums and cleared Psyche and Tajun. His ISO again has a lot of content. He pushed for an Elyse lynch which never materialized. Instead, the group lynched Paschendale. #1113 suggests that RBD is not scum with Rubicon (if there's a liar, it's Rubicon), which throws suspicion on his own slot which was cleared. #1220 is RBD resigning to a lynch that's "no where near his top pick".

This analysis tells me that I need to reread both Prophy's slot and Elyse's slot to find the third scum.

This took me quite awhile due to my work schedule. My apologies but I wanted to take a few hours to sit down and give this the attention it deserved.

Titus · Post Post #1616 (isolation #71) » Mon Sep 16, 2013 1:18 pm

In post 1612, Tajun wrote:
In post 1591, Titus wrote:I've read the comments here and I will provide more insightful comments later but I'll respond from the gut for now.

@Tajun, Really, you think I've been going with the flow. I feel like the flow has been following me. I do agree with Anti-Hero clearing my slot looks bad, but you have to look at the general intelligence of the players who were doing that at the time that "clear" was posted. Do you really think they'd buddy up so well? Very risky with little reward. If the fake gunsmith withholds ever checking his teammate, they can just go around shooting the clears and the gunsmith can bus his teammate by claiming a guilty. Trying too hard, really Tajun? That IS me. I do everything I do 100%. If you see me halfass something, that is a scum tell, a gambit tell, or a real life is too damn busy tell. I agree with your thoughts on finding the partner, I just think you are totally wrong.

@Prophy, I usually don't do PBPA on my own slots when I replace in. I'll presume you mean something akin to analyzing them if they were not me. I'll suppose that is what you meant if you don't clarify for me by the time I get around to doing that tomorrow.
The way you justified your vote on AA9 seemed disingenuous, like you had decided who you wanted to vote for and then made up the reasons. The "trying too hard" was me meaning that the reasoning you used seemed faked. As for RBD and AH, I don't think that they'd be against some WIFOM clearing, especially if they thought that they might be able to ride it to endgame.

1 more thing I thought of: I am almost certain that the scum would have bussed his buddy AH at this point, since there is no real reason not to. I am essentially willing to clear Prophylaxis based on that alone. I'll read over Elyse again tonight, ditto Titus and his previous incarnations.

You're clearing Prophy based on the fact he wouldn't vote for scum? That's counterinuitive.

You also believed something I said wasn't genuine. Please quote what you feel wasn't genuine. I can just say everything that comes out of my mouth is genuine, but that doesn't get us anywhere at all.

Titus · Post Post #1619 (isolation #72) » Mon Sep 16, 2013 5:18 pm

Elyse, are you going to provide actual content or just push Prophy towards me as scum? Why the hell have you produced no content since the day started?

Prophy, I would appreciate your comments on my PBPA. I would have expected you to read/comment on my PBPA before posting yours, in case what I said influenced how you interpreted your posts. Two rational players can see things in two totally different ways. I know you seem to think my deducing the setup of possible teams didn't get us anywhere but you are wrong. Frankly, it narrowed down the scenarios to you/Elyse, Antihero/VT (not Tajun) and Psyche/Majiffy. We know that Psyche/Majiffy is out as a possibility. Given Psyche's status as a clear that can heal, we've nearly forced Anti-Hero's buddy (whether that be you or Elyse {strong lean on Elyse atm}) to kill someone who isn't providing much in the way of content. Then, they have to get another mislynch with you, me and Tajun in the game.

You also seem to think setup speculation and mass claim are always bad. That's hardly the case. Mass claim essentially forced Rubicon to make a decision whether or not to run a gambit. It wasn't just a straight up, give me your roles mass claim. It was a mass claim structured in a way designed to get scum. Regardless of the scenario, there would be too many claimers in a given category dramatically reducing the scum pool. In a non-letters setup, such a mass claim is foolish as there are no constraints on the setup at all. Figuring out who is scum is MUCH easier when you know what must be true. After knowing what must be true, you can deduce what must be false. Then guess and check likely solutions.

On a final note, you know I tend to waffle much more as town. If not, check out Open 512. That's my scum meta. Have a freaking field day. Meta's not my thing (and I don't know if it is yours but you seem more about having a shit ton of information and then deciding what to do with it).

Titus · Post Post #1621 (isolation #73) » Mon Sep 16, 2013 6:12 pm

Not the mod but we have more than a week. The deadline is September 27th.

Titus · Tue Sep 17, 2013 11:13 am

You spent more time voting AA9 than you ever did RBD. You pushed my slot without voting it. Also, you said in post 700 something along the lines of "how is avoiding questions protown?" Here, you're saying you don't need to do analysis. Why? That seems anti-town at best. You were pretty confident of AA9 as scumbut yet you suddenly flop to me. You don't highlight anything Prophy has done to be protown.

If you thought RBD was so scummy, why did you not vote him but push others to do so.

Vote Count
Antihero-1-Elyse

Not Voting:
Antihero, Prophylaxis, Tajun, Titus, Psyche,

Titus · Post Post #1627 (isolation #75) » Tue Sep 17, 2013 1:16 pm

So you only vote people when you're certain you can get a lynch rather than your own belief?

Calling me scum is also a nice way of dodging the question. If Prophy or Tajun asked, would you then answer?

Again, you are avoiding the questions I have which is NOT pro town according to your own words. Why?

Titus · Post Post #1630 (isolation #76) » Tue Sep 17, 2013 1:31 pm

I never said you didn't argue RBD scum. My whole issue was that you argued for it yet never voted for him yourself. You are misrepresenting what I am saying. The fact you pushed so hard on a lynch you NEVER voted for because you couldn't get the votes is indicative of scum behavior to me. You seem to only vote on places where others are willing to vote rather than having your own opinion.

You've totally dodged the substance of my complaint here.

"I'm not explaining my actions to scum" is a blantant ATE and shutting down of conversation and a method of avoiding addressing the substance.

Titus · Post Post #1632 (isolation #77) » Tue Sep 17, 2013 2:43 pm

Your lack of a vote suggests that you were testing the waters, desiring to be on the train that drew the least amount of attention rather than an accurate train.

Titus · Post Post #1634 (isolation #78) » Tue Sep 17, 2013 3:08 pm

Again an appeal to emotion rather than logically explaining how you can push a lynch as town but never vote for the player. It makes no sense to me and I've just wanted a clear answer for that. Your responses have been less than helpful. Your whole responses seem to be about who listens to you rather than who you believe is scum. Your play today has been part and parcel of that. You haven't attempted to scumhunt today since Prophy said he suspected me as scum. In fact, you seem RESISTANT to the idea. You claim my case is fabricated with nothing to back that up. The case is hardly fabricated. You should be pressuring me and Prophy to figure out who the last scum is rather than assuming you already have someone. We have many many days to do so.

Titus · Wed Sep 18, 2013 11:40 am

Yes. I believed AA9's slot was scum. I don't do meta research as I don't care much for it. What people say about meta is valuable, meta itself is worthless. You seem to be upset that I wasn't sheeping you. When I come into a game, I give my own reasons for voting a player or I don't get on the train. Also, that post seems to imply incorrectly. The overreaction was by Elyse ("What's up with all of these NKs?". I was voting AA9 based on what happened the prior day. I probably should have clarified this in my post for ISO context but I usually don't care to make my posts pretty if someone ISOs them, I just type what I think.

As for Prophy's slot, if only a moron scum realizes that his buddy isn't screwed, not voting the slot is a null. You have it as more than that which I won't understand. It's not like Prophy is stating that Anti-Hero is town and we shouldn't lynch him.

Titus · Post Post #1639 (isolation #80) » Thu Sep 19, 2013 5:23 pm

@Mod: Can we have the nine hours lost due to the site being down added to the deadline?

Prophy, will you have that analysis you promised tomorrow as well?

Titus · Sat Sep 21, 2013 10:31 am

In post 1643, Tajun wrote:Still waiting on Prophylaxis...

Titus wrote:As for Prophy's slot, if only a moron scum realizes that his buddy isn't screwed, not voting the slot is a null. You have it as more than that which I won't understand. It's not like Prophy is stating that Anti-Hero is town and we shouldn't lynch him.
Huh? Not sure what you mean here, but what I was saying is that when a scum realizes that his buddy is completely screwed, he votes him to get in on the lynch, 9 times out of 10 (numbers made up). Why wouldn't Pro put down a vote there?

I'm agreeing that a Pro would have no problem voting their buddy. I'm disagreeing with the value you place on it. When everyone would do an action, passively not voting means nothing. It could just mean he was third and didn't want Anti-Hero to have a scum hammer. I am leaning towards Prophy being town for other reasons. The reason you gave isn't really much of one though. There are much better reasons to argue that Prophy is town. For instance, he's encouraging players (like me) to read the game in manners they hadn't seen before. That's a decent town indicator.

Titus · Post Post #1647 (isolation #82) » Sat Sep 21, 2013 2:16 pm

In post 1644, Psyche wrote:woo
they see me rollin
they hatin
drivin tryna catch me active lurkin

Whoa Nelly, we have a bad karaoke post here. Care to contribute?

Titus · Post Post #1656 (isolation #83) » Mon Sep 23, 2013 9:11 am

I don't really see that as following up much. You ask, why did the read change, but you do essentially do nothing with that. Immediately after Chenoan gives a non-answer, you jump and say AA9 is a good lynch target (could not tell if joking so I'm supposing serious).

Titus · Mon Sep 23, 2013 10:44 am

Being angry and tired is not a reason to change a read. You went along with that.

Nice ate. The facts paint you as scum. I just highlight them.

You could highlight what facts make you think I am scum.

Titus · Post Post #1661 (isolation #85) » Tue Sep 24, 2013 6:17 pm

Acknowledged. I'll put together a big wall tomorrow with my reasons. If you have any guidelines for our arguments, please provide them. Otherwise, it will be a PBPA similar to the one I did on myself.

Titus · Post Post #1663 (isolation #86) » Wed Sep 25, 2013 4:22 am

#121 is off. It seems to start from a position that KBW is town and reasons from there. You've got Autti being read as town until Elyse finds his acts unfavorable. To me, that's a scum indicator. It shouldn't matter if someone agrees or disagrees. The thought process is what matters. Elyse doesn't follow up on this point either by asking "What about the thought process caused you to unvote?" Rather this seems like a sympathy ploy. Then, he says that someone screams scum based on interactions with Autti and KBW but again has no followup to clarify this point. This post seems like Elyse is taking advantage of knowing that KBW's slot was town and FoSing the living crap out of everyone on it. There isn't a single scum FoSed in that post. (Note: Elyse would argue I am the scum at this point which DBK is me).

Elyse follows that up by getting into an argument calling DBK's tone "bitchy". Of all the questions that should have been raised by 121, she goes there? Again, nothing of substance.

Then, it's accusing Tajun of IIOA and providing nothing of substance.

Then, she starts in on Paschendale who thought she was scum with her white knighting slot KBW.

Apparently this is the point where posts were lost (happened in my first game on the site, but people had cache they could post).

In 332, Elyse says that she didn't like attack RachMarie did on my slot.

Elyse pushes a Paschendale lynch hard. Rallying against the massclaim until Paschendale was lynched. No real scumhunting going on here. She also shouts my slot is now scum despite having no questions.

Overall, there is no effort from Elyse to solve the game. Rather, it's all conclusory all the time. If someone doesn't do what Elyse wants, they are scum. Her activity takes off when she's pushing mislynches, otherwise it's herpalurk. The wagon we lynched scum on, she's smack dab in the middle with little comment on Apozzle/RachMarie. She's been pushing mislynches since the start of this game. It wouldn't surprise me that Anti-Hero clears Tajun (who was obvtown at this point) to create a buddying scenario. Then, Elyse just has to pick one of AA or myself to be scum. Meanwhile, she insults the PRs (an excuse to avoid scumhunting) for not checking her.

#1374

Ok guys clear me tonight so we finally have confirmation a PR is lying.

This post seems like a scum slip. It should have been at least one of the PRs is lying. Yet, she says one. This is likely because she already knew Anti-Hero was the scum and they planned the gambit in their qt.

Despite the high level of replacements, the scum seem coordinated with their movements. With how often my slot has replaced out, that's unlikely. Elyse has been consistent lurker scum but for when FoSed or pushing a mislynch. The frustration works to that end. She never even votes me despite being "frustrated" my lynch doesn't take off. In order for a train to take off, people must actually vote it.

Lastly, look at her responses when I start FoSing her. Again, all conclusory. She's suspected Prophy's slot was scum but asks no questions of him to discern his alignment. Now at the end game, she's just supposed he's town. I don't see a town thought process at all when looking at the PBPA.

Titus · Post Post #1665 (isolation #87) » Wed Sep 25, 2013 6:46 am

I'm not 100% convinced. I'd say 75 to 80% which is the best I'm probably going to get. AA9 had some weird behavior towards Psyche and Prophy hasn't been as active as he could be but that's true for a bulk of the group. Prophy's end game suggests someone still looking to solve the puzzle. Elyse's is gameplay that's consistent with scum IMO. I probably should do a PBPA on his slot just to be certain when I have the time. Prophy's analysis on my PBPAs will be beneficial for finally determining his alignment.

If Anti-Hero flips SK, I will owe Psyche an epic level apology as he has gotten a heal right every night.

Titus · Post Post #1668 (isolation #88) » Wed Sep 25, 2013 7:50 am

Tajun, how would that work? If AH flips SK, then we'd have two scum kills at some point with two factions. Either AH decided to no kill every damn night or the mafia no killed every night. The last answer is preposterous. The SK never killing is also ridiculous. So we would have to have a doctor to heal... that has to be psyche.

Titus · Wed Sep 25, 2013 11:58 am

In post 1669, Tajun wrote:I am about 99.5 percent sure that it is not the case, which is why we have spent all this time debating which VT is the partner rather than lynch and seeing if it is right. On the extremely off chance we have an utterly bizarre set of circumstances and a weird ass SK, I don't want you all fucking it up in my absence. If AH flips Bus driver or SK though, make no mistake, Psyche is confscum.

You seem to have an excellent beat on this game. I just can't see what you're saying. Make scumPsyche work with the setup if AH flips SK. It just looks horribly impossible from how I see things.

Titus · Post Post #1681 (isolation #90) » Thu Sep 26, 2013 5:21 pm

Elyse, if you are going to say things are facts, you should use facts. Most of your so called facts are merely assertions, not facts. The things that are facts (namely number 7) are taken out of context entirely. I question how you noticed number 7 if you didn't do a PBPA or hold it for later use (scummy). You said nothing at the time because the post is clear I meant Tajun there not you.

1. This is an assumption not a fact.

2. Again, this is an assertion but not a fact. I feel the mass claim helped us narrow down the final game lynch.

3. Players can be wrong.

4. This is speculation. You cannot know why my slot jumped off. You're just speculating.

5. No. That could just as easily be mistaken to the fact you claimed or thought he saw a subtle soft claim. I suck with those.

6. No. You are scum. I speculated a theory. It turned out to be wrong but it made sense given none of the PRs were dying. You again are jumping to a conclusion that scum planned to frame you. That's not based in evidence. If you're seeing an overarching plan, it makes more sense to come from a player that has always been in the game.

7. Post 1469 meant but for Tajun. Tajun was the conftown at the time. That was an error. No one at that point would have seen Tajun as scum, yet reading the post that way would have. Obvious error.

8. Prophy didn't ask for defenses, but since you're doing it... I will to (see above). As for your post, that's distancing. You had to argue one of the PR sets was lying (if they weren't you were scum anyway). It would stick out like a sore thumb if you ignored AH completely.

Titus · Post Post #1685 (isolation #91) » Sat Sep 28, 2013 3:26 am

Calling something a fact when it is merely your opinion is meant to persuade someone of something when it is not true. Most of your so called facts are opinions. It is a strawman. When I highight this, you say yup they are true without evidence. It is a strawman because nothing I post is likely to get an intelligent reply. If these are facts, you should have no problem backing them up.

Titus · Tue Oct 01, 2013 12:35 pm

I did respond. Why are you dismissing a rather large wall as not a response at all? Most of your claims are merely beliefs as to what you think scum would do. I said as much.

VOTE: Elyse

I like my vote here. Elyse is scum. Caught scum flailing.

Titus · Post Post #1696 (isolation #93) » Wed Oct 02, 2013 4:14 am

Please answer why. I would like the opportunity to defend myself. I think Elyse and Anti-Hero set me up partially. Notice how Elyse's argument is for the most part what scum would do an she refuses to do a PBPA.

Titus · Post Post #1699 (isolation #94) » Wed Oct 02, 2013 4:35 pm

1) I can't really respond to one and it is vague. I am in a current game where RBD replaced in but I definitely have no grasp on her meta. Are the things RBD missed objective or subjective according to meta. If you could grab that, I'd appreciate it. It's fucking hard to respond to vague assertions and innuendo.

2) I have been going along with the crowd somewhat. However, I haven't been PASSIVELY agreeing. I've been debating and people convinced me that they were right to take their course of action. When I knew AH was scum, I stood up and took the lead.

3) PoE suggests that you've assumed that I'm scum and are reasoning backwards. There's literally nothing in Elyse's ISO that screams town, especially her recent play and strawman arguments.

4) At the time, I believed the PRs were clear. It's a logical and consistent belief I had until corrected by the night actions. If I was "passively going with the flow", then I wouldn't be putting forth rigid beliefs like the one you posted.

5) Look for Elyse Anti-Hero interaction. Look for a strong stance on PRs. You won't find any. Instead, you'll find resistance to massclaim and other town helpful tools.

6) I absolutely disagree on the scum team organization. The scum team would have to have an organized plan to keep the PRs alive that long. What happens after being busted? What happens if Player X does this? Does that? The fact that the scum isn't obvious to you suggests methodical actions. They've nightkilled almost every night, despite the heavy replacing my slot has had. Even now, Elyse's wall on me looks like she was holding posts back for this scenario. What kind of player refuses to do a PBPA in this situation as town? None. A PBPA gets Elyse off script from the strawman arguments laid out by Anti-Hero in their scum qt. (I'm presuming the last part). That's precisely why she won't do it. Yeah, I cannot prove Elyse has a QT but the refusal to answer questions is a pretty big fucking red flag that Elyse is done playing the game because she's convinced you she's town Tajun.

Titus · Post Post #1702 (isolation #95) » Thu Oct 03, 2013 1:29 pm

No. I was saying Anti-Hero provided you a script. Doing a PBPA would veer you off-script that Anti-Hero provided or you discussed. That's the only reason I can think anyone (town or scum) would refuse to do a PBPA.

Titus · Post Post #1708 (isolation #96) » Thu Oct 03, 2013 3:16 pm

1) Tajun, you have plenty of walls and while conducting major business affairs I didn't have time to look. Sorry. Without looking your statement was indeed vague. If you give me some sort if indicator to help find your post, I'd be glad to respond.

2) I got after those I believe are scummy, regardless of how good or bad it makes me look. I don't really give two shits if you FoS me based on who I have thought was scum. It's bad play. Look at the reasons why I FoSed them. Elyse FoSed Paschendale to the grave, but yet you have a problem with who I have FoSed. Hardly makes sense to me.

3) The reason you find Elyse town is bullshit. Trading to me is the height of illogical behavior and an appeal to emotion. Scummy as all get out. It said that Elyse wasn't against Massclaim. Rather, she's against massclaim until the threats against her had been eliminated. The fact that her post convinces you that she is town makes no sense to me whatsoever. Town should rely on logic and facts to persuade. If one must resort to bargaining, they are either scum or must be resigned to be wholly unpersuasive. Elyse appeared to be neither at the time.

4) There was reason to believe the PRs were clear if you believed at the time (as I did) that AA9 and Elyse were the scums. It explained the irrational kills by the scums and why Psyche got no heals off at all. Psyche didn't get heals off because she was being framed to be scum. Cops living as long as Anti-Hero was suspicious but to me the strategy seemed clear. Get rid of the PRs, lurk the game into oblivion. I was wrong that Anti-Hero was indeed scum but the theory made sense based on what I knew at the time.

5) All five tells me is that you are not a setup analyzer. I am a setup analyzer so I like RBD's playstyle very much. Check www.sc2mafia.com for examples. That site has a lot of setup speculation as well as logical deductions. Days are much shorter than here though.

6) I am serious. AH's gambit suggests a plan of self-sacrifice to setup his partner for a good endgame. Of course AH's plan to Elyse didn't think she should strawman. No one gives that type of advise. The fact Elyse cannot form a rational coherent argument suggests that she doesn't know the script well enough to elaborate. If you think I have brushed something off, attempt to rephrase it. I do not brush off questions for no reason. Prophy also thought Elyse's questions to me were crap and her answers were a strawman. From my POV, you are suffering from confirmation bias.

--------------

Prophy, is that AH interaction done yet?

Titus · Post Post #1709 (isolation #97) » Thu Oct 03, 2013 3:25 pm

Rereading... I realized part of 3 got cut off.

3) Elyse appeared to be neither at the time to the game players. That should have been an alarm bell to those in the game. We knew she was not failing to be persuasive regarding Paschendale (he was the lynch), so therefore Elyse must have been scum. It's the only rational position left.

Titus · Post Post #1711 (isolation #98) » Thu Oct 03, 2013 3:59 pm

La Isla De La Mere (most recent town game, survived to the end) http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=30361
508 (Night killed as scum, but most recent scum game) http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=51&t=29903
513 (Nightless, lynched as scum) http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=51&t=30255

Titus · Post Post #1712 (isolation #99) » Thu Oct 03, 2013 4:01 pm

Sorry for including two scum games. I wasn't lynched in my most recent scum game. 513 is probably more apt but it isn't as recent. 513 and 508 provide the recency. 513 is where I was lynched as scum. I figured by including three I would fulfill whatever you wanted. If not, feel free to ask.

Titus · Thu Oct 03, 2013 4:36 pm

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=30562 -- This is a town game. It's the only finished game where I've gambited at all on this site. Just in case it's relevant. It finished within the past hour.

Titus · Fri Oct 04, 2013 4:36 am

1) "RBD's screwups in setup analysis were very very non RBD-like, and quite explicable by assuming that her buddy was the one who fake-claimed. And she didn't even mention the fact that getting two R's in setup creation was pretty unlikely (R's being the least common letter to pick)" That's where you talk about that post. I have NEVER finished a game with RBD. I cannot know if his setups are RBD like or not. As for not mentioning a fact, well you seem to be fully capable of reading and analyzing.

2) Yeah, Elyse had her mislynch picked out while you're attacking me for reading and responding. If I tunnelled like Elyse did, it would mirror my scum games. See Open 512 and Open 513. I listen to people and discuss rationally as town.

3) Bargaining to me is a very SCUM trait if the player is persuading people to do what they want anyway. It sets up future mislynches in the game. I think this is a point we will just disagree on. When someone starts bargaining with me, I see them as scummy.

4) The NKs made total sense in the framework of framing the PRs.

5) The town would be fucking dead if I didn't get Prophy to replace into AA9's slot. I bent over backwards to help the town in ways that are verifiable. Mass claim helped us a lot because it narrowed Elyse's options into tunnelling me. Look now, she's STILL not playing but relying on you to just argue for her.

6) I am capable of forming my own plan as well. If I actually see something that's not just an assumption (like what you have posted), I can give an intelligent response. Your posts are looking more and more like confirmation bias rather than actual constructive argumentation. You are picking facts, having conclusions and ignoring that two players can see the game absolutely differently. You say AH's original gambit would have screwed us. Who was his biggest opponent when throwing out these gambits? Right. That was me.

Titus · Fri Oct 04, 2013 10:53 am

1. Elyse, if you are right, then that's something I cannot even begin to respond to and is a strawman. That is wholly uncharacteristic of Tajun. Also, you're saying what the hell Tajun knows. That's improper intellectually and shows that you're trying to force me into a scum slot with poor argument.
2. Elyse, bullshit. My moves were all REASONED. You're tunnel on Paschendale was because.... oh wait I can't remember a decent reason. You act as if you tunnelling Paschedale for a limited time was a good thing. You only stopped because Paschendale was dead. The analouge would be me saying "Let's lynch Anti-Hero, he's scum". He's dead. You'd probably STILL be tunnelling that slot if he was alive. You absolutely ignored the evidence I provided you that my scum games lack foundation in reason.
3. No. It is scummy to bargain. Get a mislynch and then you have time to plan out what your response to massclaim will be with Anti-Hero. It's a perfect move for Scum Elyse there. Bargaining gets through mislynches. Logical persuasion ensures we get scum. I am absolutely RIGHT.
4. You are not listening to what I was saying. My theory of the scum kills made sense based on what I knew then. I was logically observing the night kills and trying to figure out who the scum was based off the night kills. Obviously, the theory was proven wrong. When it was, I said so.
5. No. The game would be dead without me. Saying that was absolutely relevant to the point Tajun was making. Tajun was saying the game would be dead in the water if not for her fixing things. It's not an attempt to "crawl up Prophy's asshole". I don't buddy. Nothing in my posts has been buddying. I absolutely don't kiss ass. If I would, maybe you'd be lynched already and we'd be saying good game. It's just not my play style.
6. I am wanting you to speak so that Tajun has something to analyze and get out of the confirmation bias she is in. You have been content to let Elyse do the heavy lifting here until I repeatedly call you out on it. Lurking makes total fucking sense as scum. That's why there's a policy lynch for lurkers.

Titus · Fri Oct 04, 2013 10:55 am

Oh and you should really reread point 6. It's a total fucking slip. You just said with your last sentence, "It [trying to get Elyse involved] makes no total sense from scum."

Titus · Fri Oct 04, 2013 12:26 pm

No. That was a slip.

I direct my posts to particular players all the time. Go on. Flail more. You slipped.

Titus · Fri Oct 04, 2013 1:07 pm

Elyse, I argue with you to point out your fallacies to others. No one really thinks they are going to have someone confess.

I think your push on Paschendale was bullshit. My reasons are present when I post. If you had a problem, why not say so then? Oh right you were herpalurking and holding posts to attempt to mislynch me.

Now, your argument is bad. As scum, it is smarter to bargain than be stubborn. Town doesn't need self-preservation and therefore no need to bargain. Town definitely doesn't need to bargain when getting the lynch hey want.

The last sentence in 1717 is a slip. You know I am town and you know my actions make so sense as scum.

Let's let Prophy sort out if he's being buddied or not. We can go round and rond there. No intelligent debat is likely to come from accusations and denals.

Titus · Fri Oct 04, 2013 2:04 pm

Elyse, I wasn't in the game during your push on Paschendale. I couldn't call you out on it.

Now, you are backtracking. Self preservation is a reason to bargain.

Anyone can try to backtrack on a slip. A slip is a subconscious message of alignment. I am done posting on this thread for now. I won't let you spam the town to defeat. 1717 speaks for itself.

Vote Count
Titus-2-Elyse, Tajun
Elyse-1-Titus

Not Voting: Prophylaxis

Titus · Fri Oct 04, 2013 5:23 pm

1. Yeah, I wasn't there. I would have said your bargaining was scummy if I was in the game at the time.
2. Sorry. Bargainng occurs even in players who want to avoid death.
3. Someone can stop lurking and start spamming.

Titus · Fri Oct 04, 2013 7:02 pm

The goal to me was to convince Tajun that Elyse was scum. Obviously I am not getting a confession out of Elyse.

Titus · Sat Oct 05, 2013 10:43 am

Tajun, I'll disagree with this. Bargaining is circumstance relevant. When you're getting everything you want, why bargain? Elyse was getting a Paschendale lynch, why the hell did she feel the need to bargain at all?

Titus · Sat Oct 05, 2013 10:45 am

In post 1731, Tajun wrote:
In post 1721, Titus wrote:No. That was a slip.

I direct my posts to particular players all the time. Go on. Flail more. You slipped.
You're calling that a slip? I'm having a hard time believing Prophylaxis hasn't hammered you yet, if that is the best you can do.

You have said Elyse has played over 30 games. Having a "typo" that reveals I am town IS a slip from someone that experienced. You're not getting anything better because you are suffering from confirmation bias.

Titus · Sat Oct 05, 2013 11:56 am

No. Elyse has an explanation for her slip entirely. It wasn't a typo. You'd not going to get a worse slip than what Elyse did from someone as experienced. It just won't happen.

You're telling me to try harder. :@

Titus · Mon Oct 07, 2013 8:36 am

No. Your gut is right. We have a lot of time. You should be thorough. Look at the AH interactions you wanted to do. You will see, Elyse is scum.

Titus · Mon Oct 07, 2013 1:19 pm

I'm arguing that Elyse saw massclaim as inevitable. Rather than look scummy by arguing against it for so long, bargain away to have it done the next day. She then gets a mislynch and time to discuss with Anti-Hero what their strategy will be. Given that Elyse had just pushed forth a mislynch (Paschendale), Anti-Hero is the one who gambits a PR. He distances himself from Elyse by never mentioning her.

Where is the risk of dying y'all are talking about in this bargain?

Titus · Mon Oct 07, 2013 2:26 pm

I don't see that in your ISO at all. You were bargaining to stall the inevitable.

Titus · Mon Oct 07, 2013 3:24 pm

In post 964, Elyse wrote:I didn't claim really recently.

Bacde's vote is dumb since he wants you lynched.

And JS has done nothing all game and suddenly comes in demanding massclaim.

WHY CAN'T WE DO IT TOMORROW AND GIVE PRs ONE MORE DAY?

In post 967, Elyse wrote:I've given my reasons as to why it shouldn't happen and I'm sticking to them.

Pasch dies today.

Massclaim tomorrow.

Everyone wins.

In post 979, Elyse wrote:I have a proposition for you, RBD.

I'll massclaim if Pasch is lynched.

Elyse, you were in no danger of being lynched. That's why I didn't see you as willing to die for it. Rather the Paschendale wagon was stalling. You flipped and said massclaim is ok if we lynch Paschendale.

Titus · Tue Oct 08, 2013 8:52 am

No. You had one vote on you. Objectively you were in no danger. You saw danger because you were scum. You bargaigned to get rid of a critic. If Paschendale was here, town might have won right now.

Titus · Tue Oct 08, 2013 4:32 pm

No. I was saying you were delaying the inevitable to get your biggest critic mislynched while you were in no danger of being lynched yourself.

Vote Count
Titus-2-Elyse, Tajun
Elyse-1-Titus

Not Voting: Prophylaxis

Titus · Wed Oct 09, 2013 4:35 am

Prophy, really, the language thing makes me loom awful? It was a god damn slip. You know I look at language. Hell you had the quote I had about dehumanizing language being a scumtell. You thought that sucked too but I was right. Cmg was scum.

You should have a hard time with believing DBK ran a mega bus. He did not. You may just want this game over. In three days, night comes again. Force Elyse to give you more information by killing. Then, the game willlikely end in a day or two. However, if we wait, we can win. Lynch me, we lose.

Titus · Wed Oct 09, 2013 2:30 pm

Tajun, the last post by Elyse should set off alarm bells. It seemed at the point where you wanted information. Yet, Elyse is pressuring to end the day and cut off the conversation. Also, why are you supposing Apozzle was new? He could just be new to the site. After all, I have/had some "new player" tendencies but I'm used to 24 hour days before posting on here.

Titus · Wed Oct 09, 2013 3:09 pm

I read it fine. It's saying, end the day. We'll win. Don't let Titus convince you rational discussion is the way to go.

Titus · Wed Oct 09, 2013 4:40 pm

All that stuff about ending the game. That is an attempt to cut off discussion. I'm hardly making it up. You're basically artfully saying, end the damn game already.

Titus · Thu Oct 10, 2013 3:55 am

Prophy, that statement about 251 makes no sense. Scum don't have legitimate FoSes. He was distancing. Those are buddy interactions. Town read. Distance. Fenceshitty. It is practically a guide for scum FoSing of a buddy. Weak reason in a spot where Elyse is not likely to get lynched.

Titus · Sat Oct 12, 2013 6:01 am

Damn it. So close. I did the best I could.

Titus · Sat Oct 12, 2013 8:11 am

Damn. For not being a setup mainipulator, claiming gs was pretty good imo. I love doing setup analysis. The kills were so wierd to allow me to claim Elyse and AA9 were scum plausibly. I would have killed Tajun when we killed Psyche but Tajun was likely getting healed. Shame though. If Psyche messes up, we probably would have won.

Titus · Mon Oct 14, 2013 11:43 am

No problem DBK. I did the best I could. I should have not let Anti-Hero NK. If I do that, Prophy probably lynches Elyse and we win. Damn it. Sorry for adding a loss to your record.

Titus · Mon Oct 14, 2013 11:55 am

For the record, I still agree that town shouldn't bargain if they are getting everything they want. Elyse's actions were highly anti-town in that regard.

Titus · Wed Oct 16, 2013 4:51 pm

I'm pretty sure that's the only time someone saying you made me want to get a lobotomy was a compliment.

Titus · Fri Oct 18, 2013 6:12 pm

Not for awhile. I have business projects that are preventing the real time reaction that site requires. For those of you not familiar with the site, days tend to be 24 or 48 hours long. When I'm actually allowed to moderate a theme game (meaning I have the experience here and things go well), I plan on drawing some evilness from that site.