Open 519: Enemy of my Enemy (GAME OVER!)

[Elyse]

VOTE: Baezu

Sup guys

[Elyse]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: NoctanNights
I can roll with this.

Announcing he's going to be a dick seems scummy too, like he wants to cover his ass and not want to be considered scummy for it.

[Elyse]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: NoctanNights
I can roll with this.

Announcing he's going to be a dick seems scummy too, like he wants to cover his ass and not want to be considered scummy for it.

You haven't met me, have you? That's just my personality. Sarcasm isn't a scum tell, I won't deliberately say to fuck off or anything, I'm just very blunt and tend to be sarcastic.

Ok why did you have to announce it? I don't care if you're a dick or whatever but telling everyone before makes it seem scummy.

[Elyse]

@Baezu
You say I hopped on the noctan wagon for bad reasons, but there wasn't really an alternative. That's like being mad at me for buying a rotten apple when they're all rotten. Noctan was the best wagon at the time and I hopped on. I don't think my reasons were particularly bad either. And I haven't "disappeared" either.

I'm on my phone for today and tomorrow and quoting and stuff is annoying but I still don't get a townvibe from Noctan and am keeping my vote there for now.

[Elyse]

That's the thing.

You haven't been a dick yet. After warning us I would expect this crazy guy to come out but you've been a pussycat so far. So tame.

[Elyse]

You say I hopped on the noctan wagon for bad reasons, but there wasn't really an alternative. That's like being mad at me for buying a rotten apple when they're all rotten. Noctan was the best wagon at the time and I hopped on.

Wow, this is awful. So not only are you NOT scumhunting, but you're just joining whatever wagon no matter how crappy it seems? There is zero town motivation for this. What's up scum?

VOTE: Elyse

Rank

No.

I am scumhunting. You just made that up.

And I don't just hop on any wagon. Early in the game to get out of RVS I will though. My jump on the noctan wagon wasn't bad either. I have reasons I've explained. But if you want to lynch me for that, go for it.

[Elyse]

@mollie
I'm probably cagey because I've been phone posting cause I've been DTS but ill be home on my laptop later today and will post content.

@nacho
Well Baezu called my reasons bad when she said I sat on the wagon so I didn't want to just reply "But my reasons are good" and instead tried to reason with her but then Im apparently scummy for doing that so yeah Ill do that next time.

[Elyse]

Not sure about TNE, Varsoon and Antihero. I think CE is town. Baezu also town because his reads seems somewhat solid to me.
Elyse... null. NSin and Jason null.
TV and NN gives off a scummy vibe.
RT is potential scum... 50 shades as well.

^
^ Oh, no. I think that CE is town because of her post about Elyse.

Gut Reads: Elyse, Jason, NN, TV, NSin, 50 shades

@RT: because he voted for 50 shades even though #93. Vote of CE already or give better reasons for your current vote.

What changed between these two posts?

In the first post, Nsin, Jason, and I were null and RT, 50 shades, TV, and NN were scummy.

In the second post, Nsin, Jason, and I are gut reads, and RT has disappeared off the list.

Could you explain this?

[Elyse]

CityElectric is a strong townread of mine.

Her posts have been very good and townminded, and I think her response to TV about my vote on Noctan was reallly townie. If she was scum, she could easily jump on me and ride the wagon out without much scrutiny, so I took that as a towntell, as did Joanne. (+a few townpoints there for Joanne, but she has to explain her reads list)

Rail Tracer is another townread.

He propelled the game out of RVS and has had legitimate reasons for his votes. His explanations have made sense and I'm not really understanding the scumreads on him.

I also have a townread on TunnelVision.

I think his attack on me was acceptable, mostly because of my poor wording in my response to Baezu, but I could definitely see where he was coming from. TV has pinged my towndar in my gut and nothing has really kept me from staying there.

I have a scumread on Baezu.

Her huge post on everyone was mostly quotes and did not offer much insight. I think her vote on Rail is bad, especially when he did give justification on his vote for Noctan. He responds to her well yet she keeps trudging on with that read. I find it odd that she is already recruiting people to vote for RT, like are you THAT confident in your read on him? Plus, asking people to look at her meta and seem how many times she is mislynched is scummy and pointless. If you are scummy as town and scummy as scum, how are we to discern your alignment?

I have a scumread on Noctan.

I've explained this one enough.

I don't really see what everyone else sees on 50 shades. I would like more of an explanation for the scumread on TV, since I think that vote was pretty bad. But other than that the questions have been good. But this might be because I enjoy playing with Mollie and Nacho

No one else has made much of an impression on me.

But Noctan and Baezu are my top scumpicks.

[Elyse]

UNVOTE:
I will now quietly step into the shadows.
If you have any questions I'll answer them.
Else, I don't exist.

Oh yeah you can gtfo with this attitude too.

[Elyse]

I see his logic, but I don't agree with it.

[Elyse]

So, I'm your top pick for being myself and expressing it?

...


Seems legit.

No.

You're my top pick for making a preemptive statement that would absolve you from a certain form of scrutiny which you have let to live up to.

But you can go on thinking that I'm voting you for being yourself.

[Elyse]

What the fuck?

So I talk about a scumread on you and you OMGUS vote me, say you AREN'T scummy as scum, which is sort of a paradox, and you think I'm covering up for my buddies. How many buddies do I have? Three? TV, RT, CE, and I are all a team?

And you literally just said I'm null for my recent contributions.

lol

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Baezu

Terrible, terrible reaction.

[Elyse]

Then you vite the person who voted you? What the fuck are you doing?

Read my post.

[Elyse]

@RT
I have played with Baezu before.

[Elyse]

@TNE
I did have reasons for voting Noctan that I've explained about a million times now. And why would I crossbus Baezu now? She eased her suspicions on me and there was no pressure on me to scumread her. That just seems like a bogus, fabricated reason to suspect both of us.

@Noctan
If you think I'm voting for you for being a dick then you need to retake 2nd grade English.

[Elyse]

You literally just said that you aren't being a dick so how exactly am I voting you for being one?

[Elyse]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: NoctanNights
I can roll with this.

Announcing he's going to be a dick seems scummy too, like he wants to cover his ass and not want to be considered scummy for it.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: NoctanNights
I can roll with this.

Announcing he's going to be a dick seems scummy too, like he wants to cover his ass and not want to be considered scummy for it.

You haven't met me, have you? That's just my personality. Sarcasm isn't a scum tell, I won't deliberately say to fuck off or anything, I'm just very blunt and tend to be sarcastic.

Ok why did you have to announce it? I don't care if you're a dick or whatever but telling everyone before makes it seem scummy.

That's the thing.

You haven't been a dick yet. After warning us I would expect this crazy guy to come out but you've been a pussycat so far. So tame.

So, I'm your top pick for being myself and expressing it?

...


Seems legit.

No.

You're my top pick for making a preemptive statement that would absolve you from a certain form of scrutiny which you have let to live up to.

But you can go on thinking that I'm voting you for being yourself.

READ. MY. FUCKING. POSTS.

[Elyse]

So yeah, hey town, this is Saki saying that you guys should leave Baezu/Noctan and TNE alone.

Y'all don't have to

listen

to them but refrain from going after any of them for the D1 lynch >_>

Why?

I'm not buying into Baezu's self-meta that she is scummy town and townie scum.

[Elyse]

When do you think scumhunting should start?

[Elyse]

@Noctan
My posts do not say the same thing. You say that I am calling you scum for being a dick. That is not true. I am calling you scum for stating that you are a dick when it was completely unnecessary, which could negate future attacks against you. You have not followed up with the behavior you warned us about, which is also scummy since if you could avoid being a dick, you didn't have to announce it.

And how is refuting everything and pushing wagons scummy?

[Elyse]

I want to stop it but Noctan asked me to respond to his latest post.

[Elyse]

any reservations I had about 50 shades before have evaporated with that horrible, horrible vote

UNVOTE:
VOTE: 50 shades

What was so bad about that vote?

It's probably pressure since Joanne has done nothing so far.

[Elyse]

Aww, but I linked sooongs.
Anyways, I think 50's town, actually.

why do u think 50's town?

It's a mollie nacho hydra.
Feels town from both of them.
Suspect, but town.
I'd rather see it get to D3 before making a lynch on it at all.

With Garson defending 50 shades I'm starting to think he might be a scum too.

Do you think Varsoon is scum?

[Elyse]

Sorry to tunnel on you again Elyse, but seriously? you've been gone for like 5 pages and all you can say when you come back is "Do you think Varsoon is scum?" to a comment which clearly said that he was starting to think Varsoon is scum. You can't do better than this?

Can you at least give us an updated reads list?

C'mon guys, this is NOT Elyse town. She's normally way less derpy than this.

Vote Elyse

Ask me any questions you have. You and Noctan, my top scumreads, haven't done much so there wasn't really anything to comment on there. Squilly seems scummy so I'm starting here.

[Elyse]

STOP IT. SERIOUSLY. I HAVE A SCUMREAD ON YOU. GET OVER IT. AT THIS POINT YOU CAN'T GRASP THE REASONS I HAVE FOR YOU BEING SCUM. IT'S CLUTTERING UP THE THREAD.

On top of that, you have done zero scumhunting of your own and are only concerned with defending yourself. You seem too transfixed on my scumread on you. Instead of trying to act pro-town you keep repeating yourself about how my read on you is only because you called yourself a dick. So my scumread has grown.

[Elyse]

You made a preemptive statement.
You have not lived up to that statement.
Your statement was thus feigned.
You are overly concerned with defending yourself.
You don't scumhunt. (What you are doing is not scumhunting, I don't care what you say)
You are hypocritical.

[Elyse]

Reasons?

[Elyse]

Also I don't really have a problem with the 50 shades wagon at all. Nothing town has really come out of that and they've been pushing people that aren't scumreads.

In fact, since no one is voting Baezu or Noctan:

UNVOTE: Baezu
VOTE: 50 Shades of Purple

L-1

[Elyse]

Holy fuck lmao.

UNVOTE:

That's what you call a reaction test, ladies and gentleman.

50 is town. Antihero is probably town. Tunnel is scum. Squilly is probably scum. Noctan

might

be town.

VOTE: TunnelVision

I fail to see how you think 50 is scum after that post you stated intent to hammer for.

[Elyse]

hahahahaha

hahaha

Oh, that's a good one Elyse...

If you don't believe me, lynch me for it.

I'm satisfied with the reads I've gotten from it and my flip will prove them to be legitimate.

[Elyse]

Alright here's my train of thought.

I don't see the case on you guys. At all. Some people are like "oh they're not pushing people on their scum list". That was the only reason I could really see, but even then it wasn't strong. I knew that if you were town, you needed something to react to to get it out of you, so I thought putting you to L-1 for shitty reasoning and changing my stance would do the trick. And it did. I knew that if you were town, you would react like you did. If you were scum, I would expect you to give up more. Maybe be like "Elyse is scum. You guys are retarded. Peace." But you didn't. You gave readsa and reasons and explained everything. Basically your posts have been bleeding town since then. The risk of you getting derphammered was relatively low, from my PoV, since most of the derps were already on your wagon.

Noctan isn't in my townpile. I said he might be town. His reaction was understandable, though slightly understated. But I think 375 and 377 show a town thought process.

This game has been a whole lot of nothing and I needed something to spice it up.

So let's lynch that scummy scumbutt TunnelVision who thought he could hammer you after your obvtown posting.

[Elyse]

Alright here's my train of thought.

I don't see the case on you guys. At all. Some people are like "oh they're not pushing people on their scum list". That was the only reason I could really see, but even then it wasn't strong. I knew that if you were town, you needed something to react to to get it out of you, so I thought putting you to L-1 for shitty reasoning and changing my stance would do the trick. And it did. I knew that if you were town, you would react like you did. If you were scum, I would expect you to give up more. Maybe be like "Elyse is scum. You guys are retarded. Peace." But you didn't. You gave readsa and reasons and explained everything. Basically your posts have been bleeding town since then. The risk of you getting derphammered was relatively low, from my PoV, since most of the derps were already on your wagon.

Noctan isn't in my townpile. I said he might be town. His reaction was understandable, though slightly understated. But I think 375 and 377 show a town thought process.

This game has been a whole lot of nothing and I needed something to spice it up.

So let's lynch that scummy scumbutt TunnelVision who thought he could hammer you after your obvtown posting.

how did you know that putting us to L1 would get us to react? that seems pretty reckless considering you don't know either of us well enough to come to that conclusion.

I am not sure I am buying this.

so from your POV we would not have been derp hammered cos all of the derps were on our wagon okay. so wouldn't that have increased the likelihood of us being scum quick hammered like tunnel tried to do? I mean scum were probably slobbering at the thought of our lynch cos then they wouldn't have to waste a nk on us. it seems irresponsible to risk lynching a town read in a game with 4 scum.

You are a very reactive player. I've looked at your meta enough to know that. You know what you are doing, but are emotionally charged. And if anyone hammered you it would be a caughtscum anyway.

[Elyse]

Asking for a claim isn't scummy. Being willing to hammer 50 shades after they obvtowned is.

[Elyse]

This DOES however open up the possibility of Ani and 50 scumteam. With all of the agreements and such. Slight, but if Elyse is town, 50. If 50 were lynched and town, I could see Elyse.

I thought this too, but the way Elyse just ran up the wagon for no reason makes me think it's more likely that she's the scum.

Did you read my posts orrrr?

[Elyse]

That's why I said it wasn't even a good point.

[Elyse]

Jason is in this game???

[Elyse]

You just said I was off your scumlist.

[Elyse]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Squilly

[Elyse]

What the fuck? This is an open setup and you're accusing me of being a serial killer?

[Elyse]

That's actually scummy as all hell.

Normally I would think you town slipped.

But why would you assume a two man scumteam and a SK rather than a three man scumteam?

Answer: You're scum with only one buddy and are working off that assumption.

UNVOTE: Squilly
VOTE: goodmorning

[Elyse]

goodmorning/Squilly scumteam or is that too good to be true?

[Elyse]

Coming in and analyzing a wagon on a player you don't even think is town is fucking weird. You don't give thoughts on players alignments individually and instead make people scumreads based on their reasons for a wagon. Wtf is that? I just don't get it and it seems too ineffective to be town.

[Elyse]

Ok deadline is in one day what else are you guys going to do?

[Elyse]

No we're axing you for assuming a two-man scum team for no reason, which is a scumslip.

[Elyse]

@Elyse:
So you ignored these then?

I tend to assume an SK in a closed setup because they're really entertaining.

Pretty much all the closed Mini setups I end up in I assume to be 2-1 or 3-1 scumteams. Multiball appears rarely (read: never).
...the game I recently finished modding was a 2-1-10 which the SK won, so that may have something to do with it.

I wouldn't use the word ignore. I would use the words "don't believe".

[Elyse]

Nacho

[Elyse]

I gave you the answer

[Elyse]

What IS the point?

[Elyse]

On one hand, Elyse's posts look more like her Scum meta than her Town meta. On the other hand, she's not an idiot, and I am beginning to have difficulty seeing her as Scum after reading this gem of a sentence from 84: "You say I hopped on the noctan wagon for bad reasons, but there wasn't really an alternative."
I realize that "too scummy to be scum" is fallacious and moronic, but there it is.

You're saying this was a joke? I don't buy that.

[Elyse]

And why did 50 shades get into gear? Hmmmm....

[Elyse]

I know. It was my L-1 vote. My reaction test.

[Elyse]

I was being facetious.

Everyone's like "Oh I don't buy the reaction test yadda yadda yadda" when it was useful.

[Elyse]

Does anyone else see that as a joke?

[Elyse]

I was being facetious.

Everyone's like "Oh I don't buy the reaction test yadda yadda yadda" when it was useful.

Surprise! I didn't buy it either. You don't reaction test by putting somebody you townread at L-1 with an aggressive player reading them as scum (me) sitting without a vote on the wagon. That was dangerous/dumb/scummy. Your play otherwise seems cautious, strike out dangerous. I think you're smart, so let's cross that out. Scummy is the only option left. Sorry. Hit me with the logic that shows otherwise. I haven't seen it yet.

You are an aggressive player, not a dumb player. If you hammered that would have been suicide. Also I didn't townread 50 shades, I just didn't scumread them. The reaction test was to get an accurate read.

[Elyse]

Hi Bauss.

I still think you are scum, but more people were interested in Squilly, who I also agreed was scum.

But then gm scumslipped so obviously I'm moving there. And I didn't hop on his wagon. I started it.

P-edit:
I don't think hammering a townie = autolynch. Hammering a townie a) without a claim b) when the L-1 vote was suspicious c) when the wagon is full of derps d) without letting them speak their reads is suicide. I know this game is all vanilla besides scum so the claim wouldn't matter but you definitely would have had heat if you hammered. And it turns out I was right. You didn't.

Also, what are you talking about? 50 was a nullread. After the reaction test they became town. I'm not lying.

[Elyse]

Hi Bauss.

I still think you are scum, but more people were interested in Squilly, who I also agreed was scum.

But then gm scumslipped so obviously I'm moving there. And I didn't hop on his wagon. I started it.

P-edit:
I don't think hammering a townie = autolynch. Hammering a townie a) without a claim b) when the L-1 vote was suspicious c) when the wagon is full of derps d) without letting them speak their reads is suicide. I know this game is all vanilla besides scum so the claim wouldn't matter but you definitely would have had heat if you hammered. And it turns out I was right. You didn't.

Also, what are you talking about? 50 was a nullread. After the reaction test they became town. I'm not lying.

I misunderstood you then. I thought you were referring to your read after the reaction test, not before. Fine.

But the point remains... you put 50 shades (that you were null on at the time) to L-1 as a reaction test (allegedly), knowing that I'm sitting with a vote on somebody else (and leaning scum on 50 shades), also knowing that I'm aggressive and borderline reckless when I tunnel... you think that was a wise move just to get an accurate read on a player? Because, you could've very easily ended up with a dead town power player there. DANGEROUS/DUMB/SCUM. Which is it?

-Bauss-

I don't know that you're reckless when you tunnel. And you weren't tunneling on 50 shades. You literally just said you were only leaning scum and weren't even voting them.

[Elyse]

I don't agree with 607 making Varsoon town. He made a case on a player that is universally scumread and has a very short ISO. Big whoop.

[Elyse]

That's cool, Elyse. I don't expect you to think I'm town, given that I think you're scum.
If Squilly is a universal scum-read, why hasn't he been lynched yet?
Furthermore, I -elaborated- on my Sqully read. I've been pretty much heading the Squilly wagon. Your posturing my 607 as a case made in retrospect is pretty blatantly painting it in a different light.
Please, continue to paint my involvement differently. It's good for when I finally make my case on you.

Squilly isn't being lynched because gm scumslipped. You have not been heading any wagon. I'm not painting anything in any light. I'm calling it like it is. Sorry if you don't get a magical townread from me.

P-edit: No. I think Squilly is scum too. Everyone does. I'm saying Varsoon's case doesn't make him town since its the easiest case in the thread to make and since this is multiball and scum can make legitimate cases too.

[Elyse]

I know. I only said that because Saki said you were town for 607.

And Squilly hasn't interacted with anyone so your "info" lynch is fake.

[Elyse]

I'm shit then. I can't believe that all my life I've been this way and it took this long for someone to tell me.

[Elyse]

And GM has posted reads and talked with people and had discussion around him. Much more than 11 post Squilly who only mentioned 50 shades and I. But yeah, you keep on thinking that Squilly is a better lynch.

[Elyse]

I laugh every time you post those dancing pics Mollie.

[Elyse]

@RT: Thanks.

Question: Does anyone at all have a townread on Baezu?

Yes, me.

Why?

I read her as town until proven scum.

Why?

Because of inherently bad/scummy play.
She's one of those people that "needs help" so that she doesn't get mislynched d1.
I have similar arguments for noctan, CE, elyse & co

Maybe because I sympathize with them idk

Excuse me but I've only been lynched once as town. Thank you very much.

[Elyse]

^I lol'd.

[Elyse]

well...hell...

didn't get anything last night; anyone else?

Why hell? Two scum died!

And I wasn't suspecting Rail Tracer so that's good. But I was suspicious of Varsoon.

50 shades not dying weakens my read a little bit. But that's WIFOM.

Lemme reread and see what I come up with.

[Elyse]

Ok so 50 shades and Noctan probably aren't scum with Rail. And neither is City (Maestro?).

I'm going to say that TV isn't scum with Varsoon because in 41 he says "oh cool Rank and Bauss are here", which I don't think he would say if he was talking with them in a QT. Noctan isn't likely scum with him either so yeah Noctan is in my townpile.

Rail's buddy could be basically anyone besides 50 shades, Noctan, and Maestro.

Varsoon's late push on Squilly makes goodmorning a possible buddy.

VOTE: goodmorning

P-edit: Gotcha

[Elyse]

Hehehehe

[Elyse]

Damn you got me

[Elyse]

Hi.

[Elyse]

Same

[Elyse]

I also think Karnage could be scum. I had Baezu as a scumread early on and Karnage has not improved the slot.

[Elyse]

VOTE: Maenara

So you come in and ignore posts and only do shitty NK/VCA analysis. Niceeeee.

@Nacho
Mehh. You're right I keep forgetting that normal rules don't apply in multiball. I know I would've killed you as scum though.

[Elyse]

I didn't realize that was L-1. Sorry.

[Elyse]

If both scumteams kill the same person does the kill count?

[Elyse]

Regardless I'm happy I was right about 50 shades town.

[Elyse]

Saki actually cares?

He's scum then.

[Elyse]

Because I don't want a quick hammer.

[Elyse]

VOTE: Saki

[Elyse]

Because I don't want a quick hammer.

VOTE: Saki

What happened to being worried about a quick hammer?

Because NOTHING is happening.

Antihero I could see that but why is Saki town?

[Elyse]

Deadline is in 2 days.

[Elyse]

UNVOTE:

[Elyse]

ooookay
sold on tne
elyse..? mmmmmmmmmm idk

This actually makes me think Saki is town because he would be more desperate and go along with me as a scumread as scum.

*crosses fingers*

VOTE: thenewearth

[Elyse]

I thought Karnage was the last scum...?

[Elyse]

Phew. I was WIFOMing myself into thinking Anithero was scum.

VOTE: Saki

Antihero, this is obvious. No townie in their right mind would vote like that right away, especially after the WTFness of that kill. It makes sense now. You said that TNE and I were scum yesterday, so Saki killed Karnage to get you to vote me.

[Elyse]

No. It wasn't a dumb move, just a transparent one.

But you should be acting like I'm confscum so your post reads weird to me.

[Elyse]

"Even I'm not that stupid" reads like you are trying to convince me of something.

[Elyse]

Wrong choice. We lost.

You should have let me talk more.