Open 537 - Polygamist: Game over, town win.

[Desperado]

So Skull and I finally slept together...

...it was fucking awesome.

And neither of us thinks there is any reason not to claim our pairs.

Quiver in fear, all ye polygamists.

[Desperado]

Vote: Lark

[Desperado]

I think claims should come a little later, when we all have a little more information on everyone's slots. Claiming right now doesn't not give us any information at all. I think we should just do the classic RVS at the beginning of the day phase.

VOTE: JKLM--for being the first player on the player list.

This is how I would expect a townie who disagrees w/ mass claim to react.

Uh, what information do you want? There is nothing wrong with claiming lover pairings.

This is how I would expect a townie who agrees w/ mass claim to react.

I agree with baldeagle. Early claims will help scum more. See Open 243 where scum started claiming on page 2 instead of getting agreement first. Rather like Desperado has done.

VOTE: Desperado

This is how I would expect scum to react. 1) Ties himself to Bald's reasoning, 2) blanket "early claims help scum more" without any further explanation, 3) irrelevant meta to justify his vote.

I'm lovers with JKLM.

Oh no, look out, scums gonna win!!!

If Matias is scum I will be fucking shocked.

VOTE: Lark
~Bo

Same with Bojo.

If scum know who the pairs are it makes it easier for them to get rid of stronger players by going for the weaker half of the pair.

Is this what you meant by "early claims help scum more?" Scum are going to go after the weaker players either way--now their strong town lovers can defend them from the scary polygamists without having to explain why they are so invested in the weaker player's life--which I would expect scum to use to push said weak lynches if our lover pairs were not common knowledge. Get it?

Lot's of really awesome words

You make my dick hard. But Bald is probably town for

the way

he opposed mass claim.

Well I guess I'm claimed for me. Good thing my lover knows what he's doing.

VOTE: neonizer

For having the coolest name ever.

^Town

Aaand... we've got a live one here!

VOTE: baldeagle

For sheeping Skull's suggestion (wrong of course) that I didn't know that we are confirmed to each other, and claiming it as a fact without even questioning it.

I'm not sure whether Skull had misunderstood what I said or whether he was deliberately twisting it, but I don't see how he got that from what I said. As there is no night kill the only way for the scum to get rid of a strong town player is to push a mislynch on their weaker half by painting them as scummy.

FoS Desperado and Skull for going ahead with the mass claim without letting us discuss it first.

Once again, we discussed it pregame and we concluded that there is no downside to claiming pairs right away. In fact, claiming right away a) completely removed the RVS stage of the game and b) produced a viable reaction from every slot that can be scrutinized by the other players. Your insistence on FOSing the two of us for what was

clearly

a protown decision is outrageous (ly scummy)

Wow just a brief read and I already see we are claiming. Cheers for giving no chance to the discussion to everyone on whether to claim or not lark. Selfish. Normally those that claim early/suggest it are scum, however this reminds me of a polygamist game where core did it cos he was stubborn and decided to do it cos thats what he thought and didn't give a shit

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... er_sort=Go

Obviously we are left with no choice. So I can tell you all of my love for fruit. Especially blueberries!

lover is blueberry

^Scum reaction. Especially since he won't go all the way and say we're scum for it, which is at least a (minor) point in Lark's favor.

Setup info:
Each town lover has a town lover, all of the mafia is in one large lover group.
Every lover pair/polygamist group can privately talk pregame, no one gets daytalk/night-talk

Spoiler: Role PMs:

Mafia:

Greetings Who, you are a

Polygamist

!
You like foursomes and don't care what those townies say about you.
You are a member of the mafia, and a lover with XXX, YYY, and ZZZ. If one of you is lynched, all of you will die. The four of you may talk here prior to the beginning of Day 1.
You win if two townspeople are lynched before any of you are

The game thread is here.

Town:

Greetings Who, you are a

Townie

and a lover with XXX.
If (s)he dies, you will as well. The two of you may talk here prior to the beginning of Day 1.
You are bitterly opposed to those radical youngsters engaging in foursomes and want to see them lynched.
You win if a mafia member is lynched

The game thread is here.

wow just reading that lark didn't know the lovers were confirmed to eachother. It clearly says here town lovers are paired with a town lover and mafia are one big group. Seems someone got put into one larger group and thought town had similar type of role PMs

VOTE: lark

Bus.jpg

You arent wrong, that is my own laziness there of skim reading and not taking everything in. Shame on me. He did not claim that you are right.

UNVOTE: lark

in fact now I know that. Why are people voting lark. theres nothing scummy other than what I thought was said.

hahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

Vote: Matias

Cuz why the heck not

Because Matias is obvtown.

When Desp claimed there had been no discussion. No explanation of benefits. No attempt to get a consensus. That's what the fos was for, my distrust of the motives behind it. Not for a difference in theory. And I guess it's clear who my lover is by know.

That's because we didn't need to discuss it with the other players to determine that it was the proper course of action. We are both experienced and talented players who literally jumped for joy when we found out we were lover pairs, and no matter how hard you try you are never going to be able to justify reading us as scum for forcing the mass claim the way we did.

{Lark, phokdapolees, Neonizer, Blueberry}

That's your scumteam, GG

[Desperado]

Also, for reference:

Lover Pairings:

Skullduggery and Desperado
Matias and JKLM
Bojo and RedCoyote
1baldeagle1 and Sanhora
Neonizer and Blueberry
Lark and phokdapolees

hahahaha this game is so easy

We're town
Matias is town
Bojo is town
Bald is town

Done and done.

[Desperado]

3) It's scummy because they are acting like they are a team by themselves, not like they're part of the town.

We are a team. And we are also a part of the town.

I very clearly stated the town motivation for what we did here:

Once again, we discussed it pregame and we concluded that there is no downside to claiming pairs right away. In fact, claiming right away a) completely removed the RVS stage of the game and b) produced a viable reaction from every slot that can be scrutinized by the other players. Your insistence on FOSing the two of us for what was clearly a protown decision is outrageous (ly scummy)

Which you neglected to discuss in your response. Why?

I understand that it's going to be extremely difficult to argue why it was scummy to skip RVS and produce legitimate (actionable) reactions from every slot, but I at least expected you to give it a whirl--you know, since you're scumreading us and all.

[Desperado]

Wanna talk about it?

[Desperado]

What do you mean when you say convoluted frustration?

[Desperado]

I mostly agree, but I think the Lark wagon is just fine--if Bald/Lark is T/S I have no problem believing it's in that order.

[Desperado]

First off, bad Desperado for not calling this post out. You mentioned in your catch-up post that Lark was scummy, for not mentiong his reason why he was opposed to a mass-claim. Yet, Bojo also only said that he agreed with someone else. This adds on as parroting Matias.
But the other part is that the hydra is mentioning here that he hasn't talked about mass-claiming with his other head and apparently also not with his partner. This is scummy as he's asking here for advice what to do. So if he's town, he rather asks people who could be scum, instead of players who he knows are town.

Uh...what? If he and Jmo didn't discuss massclaim pre-game, how do you expect him to ask him afterwards?

His only choice was to ask the game.

And of course I wouldn't think someone is scummy for agreeing with Matias (who agreed with me). Like, wtf?

[Desperado]

Matias I'm confused by what you're doing right now. For example, "Neon mentions RC briefly twice, but NEVER bojo."

^Is there a judgement being made here?

[Desperado]

And I don't understand why it's useful to categorize scumreads by lover pair. Why does it make you wonder about Skull and I that we disagree about another pair (especially when you think their might be town motivation for it)?

[Desperado]

Unvote
Vote: Neonizer

[Desperado]

What is your reason for voting Neonizer rather than Bojo?

Actually I'm going to address this one to Matias and Desp too. Why did you start a new wagon on Neonizer when there were already votes on Bojo?

I don't think Bojo is scum. I think Neonizer is scum.

[Desperado]

I think he's town as shit

[Desperado]

He had the exact same reaction to Neonizer's vote/unvote that I did. He seems like town who initially disagreed with mass claim, was persuaded by our arguments (and by extension, townreads us) and is now seamlessly picking up our fights.

If he's scum then the other pair is in our hard townreads.

[Desperado]

...no.

[Desperado]

Unless you think he would call someone out for the White Flag Gambit while he was simultaneously performing it himself?

[Desperado]

That isn't a slip.

[Desperado]

I once had scum try to mislynch me for using the term "confirmation bias" in reference to a scum read I had. Their argument was that only town players could exhibit confirmation bias, and because I was saying he was conf-biasing and scum, that made me scum (because I didn't believe in my own arguments).

It was just as stupid then as it was retyping it right there.

They also used a version of this:

If he really thought I was scum he wouldn't be accusing me of having incomplete information because scum have full information.

Which does not fly when you consider the fact that the scum's wincon depends on their ability to pretend to have incomplete information. Every player is capable of conjecture, including (and maybe even especially) scum. Your case is weak.

[Desperado]

Niiiiiiiiiiiiiice

[Desperado]

I would 100% do that, fwiw