Open 538: Diffusion of Power (Game Over)

[Thor665]

Hey guys, I am replacing a guy.
Looks like I'm confirmed town according to Boro.
That is awesome, because it allows me to indulge in my inherent laziness.

Someone should compile for me a list of all claimed night actions, I'd like to see that.

[Thor665]

For the crime of...asking for the night actions?
Yes, that is a pure scum act - tell me more about your views on the game?

[Thor665]

By the looks of it you are hardly alone in the slacking department this game.
Luckily I'm like a boost of adrenaline...or, at least I post a lot and make (semi) witty remarks, which is probably about the same thing.

[Thor665]

Also, all of you should have it easy. My slot is confirmed and there are five other players with two scum amongst them. Which means all of you, by flipping a coin, should have 50% accuracy which is signifigantly better than the site's norm.
Seriously now, how are we in a hard situation?

As people show up I'd like them all to make a note of who they are thinking we should lynch today - that would also be helpful to me.

[Thor665]

Any particular reason, or do you just hate his face?

Also, no listing of actions for me? :sad face:

[Thor665]

I will also admit on a pride point - I really hope scum regrets which town player they killed last night. I really do...though I suppose a lot of that will end up depending on whether or not I derp my choices for who to lynch today.

Ooooh, though that makes me wonder if scum chose the active player because he was on to something...hurm...

[Thor665]

Both Pepper and Zebe were not fans of Boro.
Good to know...

@Boro - hey, apparently you're obv. scum, why should I not just sheep the town players who disliked your personal body aroma?

[Thor665]

@ETL - So who should I sheep you on for the lynch?

[Thor665]

Well, almost assuredly at least one scum in ETL/Lucky/BB.

@BB - why do people believe your investigate on me?

[Thor665]

I tend to presume at least one scumbuddy bussed for credit - those are the non-confirmed towns on said wagon.

Why do you believe BB about me being cleared?

[Thor665]

@Thor: you asked BB why he believes his own investigation? Or am I misunderstanding that?

I'm asking why people believe him enough to call me town.

Also, you were talking about boro being scum when boro already flipped town, so I'm a bit confused. What are your theories?

My theory is that I haven't read the game - as stated.

@Smudger - I agree with ETL, I'd like to see a bit of the logic behind your PoE. At the very least, why do you think Aptil is town?

[Thor665]

@Thor and BB: Can you guys please give me your impressions of smudger and lucky? Anything standing out to you from D1/D2 or the wagons?

That would require me to read Day 1 and Day 2 - what part of my 'I'm lazy' comment isn't sinking in here?

If I was going purely off wagons, aptil is probably town?

How so?

[Thor665]

@Lucky - why couldn't both be scum?

[Thor665]

Why not?

[Thor665]

How is he guaranteed besides the PoE that assumed Aptil was town?

[Thor665]

So it's just that at least one Doc is guaranteed? That makes sense by itself, but then I feel it once again begs the question - why did you presume a town/scum situation when it could also have been a scum/scum?

[Thor665]

I am excited by everything that's happening.

Anyone with a town PM that isn't Smudger should feel ashamed.
I mean...Smudger is out-towning you right now...have you seen his posts? They're the most pro-town thing in the thread right now and are barely readable, roll that one over in your head a bit.
Heck, I even think he looks scummy and he's *still* the most pro-town player of the lot of you. Egads!

I'd love to hear anything from Aptil - otherwise I may just help lynch that slot for lulz.

[Thor665]

Why not vote him now then? He's assured scum to you and has a vote on him.

[Thor665]

Thor, guess the scumteam, go

Meh.

I'm doing ISOs so I stop getting shamed by Thor

...meh.

Is there any reason I should consider a Smudger/Lucky team over others? I mean, i could go do some Isos and offer my thoughts on it, but why is it worth checking out that team over, say, Smudger's Aptil/Lucky team?

[Thor665]

when do you plan to make theories about possible scum teams?

When do I ever make theories about scum teams. I'm pretty sure I'm on open record as *not* liking to hunt for teams.

[Thor665]

Why not vote him now then? He's assured scum to you and has a vote on him.

@Smudger.

Thorn.... lol.... what a great misnomer.

UNVOTE:

I really do not like smudger's 1230 like... AT ALL. Smudger/lucky was what I was looking at based on the analysis I'd done over the night, when I was still excited about this game. How I got there, I don't really remember. I'd have to dig up my notes and I probably wont do that. But anyway, I'd be voting him if they weren't cross voting like idiots.

Why unvote Aptil?

[Thor665]

Can you expand on that?

[Thor665]

Kn answer to Thor 's question, I will, why dont you?

Because I'm not sure who scum are and it would be interesting to me to test two things.

1. If you are all talk about voting Aptil, or if you are serious.
2. If an Aptil with 2 votes on him gets quicklynched.

I thought what I was trying to do was really quite obvious - why are you asking me why wouldn't I vote Aptil...it's not like I've claimed him as a major scumread or anything.

Thor - what I mean is that my gut is winning against numbers here regarding aptil. I also don't like how pushy smudger is being, as though he just really wants a lynch, yet he had to be convinced that his only two scum reads, by his own logic, must be the last two scum.

Did he do this? When? That sounds kind of wonky, I'd like to see the post(s) in question.

[Thor665]

Votecount

I feel lied to

[Thor665]

If you are town I hope you feel bad about your performance here.
If you are scum - well played.

[Thor665]

Did you have the ability to make the commitment to the game when you signed up for it?
Because if no, then why did you ever sign up?
And if yes, then why am I having to listen to your work schedule complaints?
It's a game, I'm here to play it, I prefer to play it with people who are also choosing to play it. If that's a problem for you then, yes, you should replace out. If it's not then yes, you should play the game and stop making excuses. You're the one who said you could make the commitment, not me, and if you think it's unreasonable for me to expect you to live up to the commitment you chose to make then please explain how that works because I disagree with you rather strongly on that point. I'm pretty sure a lot of us work long work days and schedules, I know I do, but I either make time for games or scale back in the amount of games I am in, and I would consider it uncool to use a busy day or two as an excuse. It's not like your lack of contribution was different over the weekend or prior to this long day, so unless you're working 15 hour days every day for the past eight days then something is a little wonky here, and if you are working that then what the heck are you doing trying to play mafia?

[Thor665]

Also, I'm not even sure where you're coming from getting in my face about it.
If you are town, and let's presume you are, do you think you're playing well and to your wincon and helping your other town teamates?

Because if the answer is 'yes' Wooosh!
And if the answer is 'no' then you should well understand my frustration with what you are currently doing and shouldn't be getting uppity with me when I point out that it's harmful to my wincon. You should be agreeing with me.

[Thor665]

@Smudger - looking some stuff over, I think you're scum. Is there any real town evidence for you?

[Thor665]

Also, I will admit, I'm starting to think Aptil is just really bad town.

[Thor665]

Beard.

What does it matter to you at this stage?

[Thor665]

Heck, apparently you think Smudger is scum, so...shouldn't you kind of be on board with this thought process?

[Thor665]

For me a lot of it is the vote counts and the flips.

[L-3] Does Bo Know: Zebe, DoctorPepper, Smudger, Cheery Dog

At this point the above wagon is;

Confirmed town being voted by: Confirmed Town, Thor (who is considered confirmed), Smudger, and Confirmed Town.

I mean...that just looks iffy. Here's the competition;

[L-3] Cheery Dog: EspeciallyTheLies, Mr_Blonde, Lucky2u, Kalimar

Confirmed town being voted by: Unknown, Town, Unknown, and Scum.

Lucky moved from Cheery to DBK - so if he's scum then he...what, decided he didn't like being part of the uber scum push on the scum infested Cheery wagon? Meh, not really buying that, nor that the wagon was so heavily scum peopled. Doesn't quite add up.

Also, I'm pretty convinced ETL = town now.

[Thor665]

Well, almost assuredly at least one scum in

ETL

/Lucky/BB.

Hurm...so...also need to puzzle out the Lucky/BB situation.
One of those filthy scumSmurfs is a filthy scumSmurf.

[Thor665]

@BB - please justify why I should think you're town?

Also, you think Aptil/Smudger is the scumteam, yes? So, you tend to believe no scum bussed Kalimar the lurky scum buddy? How do you get to that conclusion?

[Thor665]

@ETL - depending on your situation an explanation of BB=town would be nice to see. If I can get that sorted I'm probably down with the idea of lynching Lucky/Smudger.

[Thor665]

2. I lynched Kalimar when I could have easily lynched DP instead

Support this please, because if true you'll sell me.

[Thor665]

Meh - Boro was hardly a real contender at that point. Am I missing something?

[Thor665]

Why didn't you mention the Pepper wagon at that stage?

[Thor665]

Hurm...

Vote: Smudger

[Thor665]

What do you mean by town evidence? All I can say right now is I am not confirmed town. I would like to believe my ISO may provide that to you all but that's up to how you read it. Yes I could be scum, but I know Aptil and Lucky are based on what I know.

I suppose it's up to me to read it - but BB was willing to take up the challenge of presenting a town case on himself and he sold me pretty well.
What would you say is/are the core reason(s) you should look town?
Like, has anything happened that really showed you as pro-town or not a Kalimar scumbuddy or something?

Ok the reason you believe I am scum is clear and you cover the only possible alternative to the move of vote by Lucky, why is that not the case, it is highly likely to have been so from where I am sitting. In addition where is Town Aptil in all this?

I'm sure this question makes sense to you - but you lost me. I feel like you're asking me a lot of things in one big jumble. Parse it out please?

If we are going to look at Votes and previous lynches then let's look at the Kalimar lynch. I was going to hammer Kalimar and gave intent. Lucky had done so before me, but time was counting down.
[snip]
But then Lucky Hammers:
[snip]
So who was going to bus who? Look at the lead up to that lynch.

So...basically Lucky gave intent.
Then you gave intent.
Then Lucky hammered before you got back to hammer.
And...that makes it look more like a Lucky bus of Kalimar than a Smudger bus of Kalimar...?
I don't follow. What am I missing here? Looks like you stated a hammer promise after a hammer promise was already made, making it a meaningless promise at that stage unless Lucky had failed to deliver, and then Lucky delivered. I'm not sure why that should make either of you look particularly better or worse than the other.

[Thor665]

This is interesting also

My town reads :
DBK
Wake
Smudger
Scum reads:
BB
Cherry

Where are Lucky and Kalimar?

Where are Zebe and gamsimbre?

Your VCA reasoning seems clear. You provide a thought as to why Lucky might have moved his vote, i.e. He did not feel comfortable as scum on a scum heavy wagon. But you dismiss that. My point is why could it not be the case as to me it is.

I expressed that theory as a 'why would that even be the case'? For that to be the case literally all the scum would have had to hop on the wagon at that stage, and for some reason, with both his scumbuddies clearly focused on getting 'Town A' lynched he decides to hop off and vote 'Town B' for some reason? ...it just feels weird as a scum action. I don't see why he'd bother.

Do you?

I also ask where "town Aptil" is in all this. In fact IIRC he has stayed away from most wagons. That does not seem particularly town to me.

No, it doesn't, but the whiny reaction to me calling out the bad play made me feel like Aptil was more likely town - because I insulted his town play and then he got a little kvetchy at me. Felt townish.
Also, the way Kalimar dinged Aptil for hypocrisy and buddied to Fusion over attacking Aptil really didn't feel much like a scum/scum interaction to me.

The hammer shows what it shows, you should be suspicious of us both and, from my PoV, lucky is scum and bussed his buddy.

I will admit to not being a huge fan of Lucky's slot, but I feel like you're a more assured bet.

[Thor665]

Where are ETL and DP? Yes people are missing but those 2, Lucky and Kalimar stick out now.

Eh, that's weak - you have a theory scum team and are using as proof of their scumminess that they aren't on his town or scum reads list, but he had multiple players not on that list, so it's just as good a tell to prove that those players are his scumbuddies.
Frankly, I would expect at least one of his buddies to appear on that list as either scum or town, and maybe the other to be in the null field. So I am really not being sold by this.

Not really I don't see why he bothered, and maybe it is clutching at straws on my part but it should be a consideration.

I thought I had considered it and dismissed it already?

You need to point at the Kalimar Aptil thing as it did not ping with me. If it is as you say it is, ummm yes it could well be a scum v scum.

Go iso Kalimar for Aptil - his iso isn't huge and it's in there.

[Thor665]

Thor are you sure you are town?

Well let me check...oh, wait, snap, I'm scum this game. How silly of me!

[Thor665]

Okay...in that case my answer is 'Yes, I think it looks townish'
Wow, the question's answer is much more useful when answered straight up.

[Thor665]

So basically...yes - that one went nowhere. So I was right and my original snarky answer was acceptable and you didn't need me to take it serious?
I don't get why we did this.

[Thor665]

@Smudger - looking some stuff over, I think you're scum. Is there any real town evidence for you?

Is there such a thing as town evidence? I know you are confirmed town but I just wanted to stop and complain about this comment.

Yes, there most assuredly is and it's mildly silly that you think otherwise. If you think it's possible to see scum intent why in the universe would you then imagine it's impossible to see town intent? I, frankly, almost exclusively town hunt - I am not called bad at the game by many.

This is highly possible, [Aptil] has been like that before, but I don't think it's the case right now.

Why?

why is it so likely that someone bussed kalimar?

Because scum bus, it's a thing. How many games have you seen where no scum voted the first scumbuddy to be lynched?
I can't think of any.
I suppose it happens, but it seems exceedingly rare.
Do you know something I don't?

[Thor665]

1. There is a difference between town intent and evidence. Evidence for town is rare to non-existent because it's FACT, not opinion or guess work. So he really can't provide evidence, unless he has a flipped cop not guilty on him.

By this logic scum evidence doesn't exist either, only scum intent, and your issue was me using the word 'evidence' and not 'intent'.
So...whut?

2. his post about willingness to replace out seemed fake to me. If he does actually replace out, I'd confirm that slot as town.

Both of those statements are pretty bad, the second one is far worse.

3. I know scum bussing is a thing, but so is distancing. Is it guarenteed that someone bussed him? no. No matter how rare, always account for the opposite possibility.

...whut?
So, basically, because 99% of the time something happens you have issue with me believing this is one of the 99%? I don't even understand what you're trying to argue here.
Do you think scum bussed or not?
You seem to agree that it is likely they did, so why is it strange for me to work from a theory that, yes, they bussed?

[Thor665]

Also, it's not like Aptil has even been around to attempt a quickhammer even if you believed Smudger was at L-1.

[Thor665]

Meh.

For me the ETL=town case is really the clearing of Zebe. It was not a strategically optimal time for scum to do that.

[Thor665]

ETL is pretty town for play in general for me.

Meh.

[Thor665]

I am a'quiver with the vapors right now.

[Thor665]

I should hope not, it's what I sound like.

[Thor665]

I said I do sound like a southern belle - the illusion holds.

[Thor665]

Well, it's always theoretically possible that Lucky is scum and Smudger is town - and, also, Zekrom, as his predecessor did, has opted to be generally anti-town thus far with his lurking.

It seems to be a new site standard of approved town play, if my other games are any indication.

[Thor665]

It seems to be a new site standard of approved town play

If smudger is town and lucky is scum, why are you assuming aptil is town with this statement? Who is Lucky's partner then?

I don't understand what you're asking and I am suspicious you don't either.

[Thor665]

Thor, it's impolite to imply I'm stupid just because you don't get what I'm asking you.

I wasn't suggesting you were stupid, I was suggesting it was a very badly written question.

First, you are discussing the possibility that smudger is town and lucky is scum. This leads me to believe that you don't believe smudger is partners with lucky. However, you follow this up by calling out zek for lurking,

and then refer to it as a bad TOWN habit

. So, I was asking why you are treating aptil/zek as town.

I wasn't doing any of this. What I was doing was discussing theoretical setups wherein the current vote situation didn't prove that Smudger was scum - him being scum with Lucky would not be one of those setups.
I also wasn't treating Zek as town, functionally my answer was pointing out, yet again, that the slot could be scum and that could be the failure for a quickhammer.

Except, isn't it also theoretically possible smudger is scum and lucky is town? But you don't talk about that.

Sure...but there would be no point to discuss that with what i was talking about.
I think I've even come out and listed Lucky as my top scumpartner candidate with Smudger.

So this makes me think you believe lucky is actually scummier than smudger

I do not think this, and all my other posts over the course of the day and my stated reasons for voting Smudger show that I do not.

Make sense?

[Thor665]

p-edit: Yes. And anyway my questioning of you is moot in this case. I was under the impression you felt aptil was more likely town than smudger or lucky.

That is a correct impression.

[Thor665]

Yeah, Lucky is working really hard to look scum, that is for sure.

[Thor665]

I have no idea, I'm not you, but you are most assuredly doing it.

[Thor665]

With such a pro-town performance I'm amazed you're confused about me making the observation.

[Thor665]

I never read his push on Boro, so I have no thoughts.

[Thor665]

Why? I've already pointed out that he's useless.

[Thor665]

You are scum, aren't you? I just really felt it right this moment. Up till now it was mostly PoE, bluster, and a bit of reaction fishing.

[Thor665]

@mod: Zek has not so much as posted "hi". That's not right. Can we get someone willing to play?

@ Mod - Seconded.

[Thor665]

Considering deadline is in less than four, I am not game to wait an extra 24 on top of search time and (inevitable) claims of needing to read everything before ability to post game relevant info.

Request immediate replacement - 2 of 3

[Thor665]

Unvote: Smudger

Here, let me give you plenty of time.

[Thor665]

As of now I'm considering Zekrom to be lynched first.
Hopefully all of his posts moving forward shall be beacons of pro-town play.

[Thor665]

I think I understand all those words. I don't think i understand the sentence. Clarify?

[Thor665]

anyone besides me think Smudger is town

Not that I'm aware of, why did you vote your town read?

[Thor665]

Why don't you walk me through your town read of smudger, zek?

I'd rather just hear about his vote and unvote reasoning some more, personally - plenty of time to hear about his reads later.

[Thor665]

Why don't you walk me through your town read of smudger, zek?

I'd rather just hear about his vote and unvote reasoning some more, personally - plenty of time to hear about his reads later.

I have reasons for asking what I do.

So do I.

I'd rather get him while the fire is hot to justify his vote.

A read that he'll need to later explain in the context of how much he read will still be damning five days from now.
That said, even the five hours can buy him time to come up with a defensible reason for his vote.

[Thor665]

we can't lynch town

Your vote.
Explain it please.
Why did you vote Smudger?

[Thor665]

petition for replacement

Withdraw request for replacement

[Thor665]

You really want to deal with this?

What's your issue with the slot - specifically?

I personally think the attempted lynch/hammer on Smudger is some of the best info we've had in days, what's your take?

[Thor665]

Apparently he does. Personally, I don't think we're going to get anything but WIFOM out of him. He's (more than likely) a newb to the site, and being in 20 games, not read the game in the 2 days since he replaced the slot.... I mean... this is not playing. This is taking up space.

Nah, I'm in [Ongoing] with him. He can read and form sentences - so he really ought to be able to answer my question here.

[Thor665]

Though, honestly, per the draconian and insane current rules, I may have just broken the rules by admitting that.

[Thor665]

Also I still want you to explain your vote - why is that so hard for you to do?

[Thor665]

And now that he's had 20 minutes, any claim he makes isn't believable anyway.

[Thor665]

@Thor: and how are you not scum ?

I don't think I have been shown to be not scum, but people decided to treat me that way regardless.

You still haven't explained your vote - how many times will I need to ask to get this question responded to I wonder?

[Thor665]

just a rushed vote since the deadline

NOT THOUGHT OUT

Do you know what else isn't thought out?
Your failure to answer my question about your vote on Smudger - that hasn't been thought out either.
How much time do you need to fake your answer?

By the way, BB should get in here so we can prove that he and I aren't a scum team, and then I *will* be confirmed town.

[Thor665]

Heyo!

[Thor665]

Aw, I read the hour wrong...well...my bad. In any case, as it happens (and it will) I'll be confirmed and BB will...well, not be confirmed, but I'll admit I'm pretty sold on him anyway, but at least it will make the way everyone is treating me at least justifiable.

[Thor665]

Still here.

Now confirmed.

[Thor665]

@BB - though while we're at it, what's your take on Zekrom's play thus far?

Also, my paranoia opinion wants to say Lucky was annoyed to get the derpmaster as his scumbuddy and that's why he pressed for the replacement after trying the weak 'he's drunk!' defense. Thoughts?

[Thor665]

just a rushed vote

since the deadline

NOT THOUGHT OUT

Thor: nice slip up

I thought that was in complaint of ETL's vote on you.

...so, you just rushed out a vote and...then realized you didn't need to rush out a vote? Was that it?

[Thor665]

thorsi town. my htoughts on lucky an ge found in my iso. even if you duint think about avyoru vote, you vfisrt instinct was to vot e smcudger, even thoush its mylo, and thn... what? you lookd at a vc?

Oh my gawd, now I want to policy lynch you.

[Thor665]

Well, if we can get Lucky and ETL on at the same time we can start ruling out some other scum team combos.
We already know it isn't me and BB - shock.

@ETL - anyone who "drunk posts" with a lot of mis spellings, by definition, needs lynching. I have drunk posted many a time. I get maybe a little more fighty and a little more silly - but I can still manage to operate a keyboard. Every time I read a post like that I kind of admit I start presuming the poster is like 16 or something.

@Zekrom - if you can handle all the games...why are you having such problem playing this one? I feel like, this one is a standout in how you are playing. And it's not standing out in a good way.

So...it's probably not Zekrom/Smudger - because if that wasn't a derp quicklynch attempt...I dunno, I'm just saying I'm pretty sure that was a derp lynch attempt. So, that suggests Smudger = teh townz, which pains me to say with the way he's been playing but...any port in the storm. I then tend to go Zekrom/BB or Zekrom/Lucky. I probably lean Lucky, as though I've already forgotten the reasoning there waasn't a bad BB=ton case a few pages back.

So, Zekrom/Lucky GG?
I could buy into that.

[Thor665]

That looked like scum who thought he was laying out the hammer vote on town to me.

What did it look like to you?

[Thor665]

Have yu ever seen a panic bus happen anywhere before? I'd love to have an example to evaluate this one by.

[Thor665]

*shrug* I'll try to type better next time. It doesn't happen as often as people seem to believe. I

do

work during the week.

You can drunk post every evening for all I personally care about it, and it won't negatively effect my opinion of you as a person.
But try not to butcher the Queen's English during whatever percentage of time you are drunk posting. If you're indeed somehow so damaged as to be incapable of typing while still able to get online and navigate to this website, then you don't need to be typing in any case.

This reads to me like you are trying to make sure you aren't implicated as the partner when zek flips scum. It's really the only option for you, isn't it? You know you can't push me. You know you can't push obvtown BB/Thor. Admitting that zek made a foolish scum slip in trying to get a quicklynch means you're the only one left to be the partner, so you come up with this convoluted theory? You know, the most reasonable assumption...

I am not against this as a working theory - also pair it now with his sudden reverse in attitude on Zek. It's not like Zek did...anything betwixt and between the votes, but Lucky *did* avoid my question and then proceed to the voting right away.

I'll admit I still hold a lot of doubts about Smudger - his play has been painfully pro-scum this entire time, on multiple levels. I feel pretty good about the Lucky situation. I'm almost wondering if...maybe Zekrom is indeed just that bad? But [Ongoing, ongoing, ongoig] and thus it's annoying because I can't even describe my issue to try to sound it out, y'know? But the vote on Smudger was just...it was so bad, and that he really couldn't justify it beyond "well, it will have given me time to read" is really...worse. Especially in mylo.

I dunno - do you have any town vibe from Smudger at all? Basically I'm trying to wade through a lot of scum and newb vibes from Zek and Lucky, and the Smudger=scum thing is burning very bright for me (albeit as it's late at night,a nd I'm tired and...well, may or may not be drunk, but, y'know)

I will consider some vote counts tomorrow (unless someone wants to be my favorite person ever and color code up a few for me) but I think we probably should do a bit of due dilligence on this question even if it feels very good right now.

[Thor665]

Oh, and I suppose I should point out that neither ETL nor I are possible to be scum with anyone *except* Zekrom now. Which, by the way, absolutely confirms me as town. Shock.

Just as long as we're keeping track.

[Thor665]

Aw, nix the ETL one, she's already voting Zekkie - my bad!

So, just I am confirmed.
Whoop-dee-doo.

[Thor665]

Why is it I always am the one who gets confirmed whenever I'm in lylo/mylo still leaving me to do all the hard work?
What's up with that?

[Thor665]

Why?

[Thor665]

And, by the way, since you should now recognize that I am confirmed town - feel free to really work hard to answer my question in the most pro-town way you can.

[Thor665]

No one cares - and that's certainly not a reason to avoid lynching you in this setup wherein you could just be scum and lying about being a Doc. What else have you got?

[Thor665]

Which town have you protected?

[Thor665]

@thor: About smudger, it's a combination of his attitude and comments the last few days (most notably - "I know I'm town - It's absolutely lucky/zek!" - He keeps repeating this because, I think, he's tried to explain his reasoning otherwise and was not being heard/understood). What does a townie do at that point? They just keep repeating what they know. What does a scum do? They make up new theories because they can. Then, add in zek's responses, or lack thereof, and Lucky's reactions to both, and I'm leaning much more towards townSmudger than not. And the more I look back at the game, the more I like it.

Y'see, my thought process is usually that town would try to keep coming up with new ways to show what they're thinking and scum would easily slide into simple repetition since it's easy.

I don't think Smudger has worked very hard to show why he thinks Lucky/Zekrom are scum either separately or together.

[Thor665]

Yeah, the town players are still talking - what's your problem with that?

[Thor665]

Thor,

do you see town act rationally more often? I don't.

I do though, usually see town react with more passion.
What bugs me about him, at the core, is, functionally, he was losing the game for us and his reaction was 'awww, screw it :shrug:' as opposed to anything else.

Do you see lucky+smudger as a possibility? And if so, how do you explain lucky's Smurfy explanation for why zek voted smudger at his entrance?

I do see that as a possibility, and it might have simply been scum portraying a town player in a poor light.
The best argument I see against that was that Lucky didn't really press for a Smudger lynch as well, but he may have been hoping for a chance at the win today.
The best counter to that was how long it took Lucky to actually vote Zekrom.

I'm quite possibly just overworking this, but it is an important decision and I'd rather feel like I went over the available thoughts prior to dropping the hammer, especially since I'm not going to be around tomorrow even if we lynch right today.

[Thor665]

I don't think there's any way we're not lynching Zek today, he pretty much either open claimed scum or needs to seriously analyze how he plays the game.

[Thor665]

Lucky, if zek is scum, who is the partner

I like this question.

I'd love to see Lucky answer it.

[Thor665]

I have to come in here and say what more do you want me to do Thor, ETL, BB. There is absolutely nothing more I can say. I don't plead I just try to stick to the facts and let those who need to decide, decide. My only proof is what I know and what I have been saying since the later states of yesterday. Even if you line up mine and Lucky's ISO I agree there are good and bad things in equal measure from us both. You have to decide I fully realise that is an AtE but it's really all I have left.

The town energy overflows.



...[/sarcasm]

[Thor665]

You're welcome?

[Thor665]

You have seen my case.

[Thor665]

Then it wasn't very memorable. As far as I recall, you just think he's scum because of his attitude at his own wagon, your suspicion of lucky, and because you used to think aptil was town. Is that incorrect? With the aptil slot now on the chopping block, you think lucky is town?

With Aptil I ruled him out due to the vote counts - with an idea of Aptil scum...it's messing with my Lucky=scum read.

[Thor665]

Thor well subbed in you were a threat to me you had to die.,.

Yeah. My schedule kind of let town down though - I think if I could have had a bit more time to sort my thoughts I could have left a clearer Smudger=scum case for people to consider for today. I knew something was gakky with the Lucky/Aptil pairing but was having a hard time putting it into words outside of 'their vote placement'
Really, my bad...well, that and a sudden gig, but, yeah.

You did play the last day pretty darn well.

[Thor665]

which part did i mess up ? ( for future reference )

Sloppy hammer attempt paired with inability to describe the reasoning for the hammer.
Town doesn't go for a speed hammer "to get more time to read" Also, that was a potential slip about your awareness that Smudger was assured scum - though no one picked up on it, but it could have also been an issue.

[Thor665]

Rather "town doesn't go for a speed hammer in MYLO"