Open 546: Fire and Ice (Game Over)

[Titus]

Hi, dryfit. Nice to see you too. I hardly know anyone here, so this should be good.

VOTE: Obsessedwithcats

Wagons ahoy!

[Titus]

Jklash, we must protect the cat!

[Titus]

just breaking the ice.

Screech, choo choo, crash, splunk, engineer saying what the fuck and people screaming. That is the sound of a train breaking the ice....much like RVS ending.

[Titus]

Great, we have a mathematician in here.

What's wrong with math?

----

What do you feel your strongest and weakest points are?

The above is for everyone.

I am stronger at strategizing but weaker at communicating. It takes me three times to long to say what I need to. Once I get a good grip on the game, I tend to be pretty stubborn.

[Titus]

How are you not good at elaborating? What would help you to do so?

[Titus]

Jklash, length isn't always better. Points can get lost in words.

[Titus]

Mala, answer my question. You know damn well I like to get in people's heads. If we are stuck in RVS, I might as well be productive. Or would you rather stall the game out?

[Titus]

Jklash, she's implying we are abnormally close. Besides, I doubt you are into married chicks.

[Titus]

Jklash, you seem to be new. So when Mala implies we are too close, it's likely implying one of us is buddying. Buddying is where you try to be overly friendly to another player so they won't vote you.

Of course, now I am being long winded and lost a good opportunity to get into your head while the game was peaceful.

[Titus]

Mala, this question serves to optimize the talents of the group. If someone said, they are always right early but they suck early, it's a good indicator they are scum. It is a little RQSy, but will help provide some items for the group to discuss. It also provides some strategic positioning tips as well. I always say it's not the meta but what people say about the meta that's important. You are one of the most seasoned players here, so I figured the question would be easy or you.

The fact you are resistant to my scumhunting shows we'll have natural conflict.

Gooner, I agree on the naked voting. I used to think it made people look really scummmy but it would make me just chase after town half the time. Even if you are sheeping please put "good reasoning Player X".



No wagon came out of this. Time for me to move to try and get one started.

VOTE: jklash12

[Titus]

is anything worth looking at again ?

Dude. Now is not the time for busy posting. I get your new and I but answer my question, vote, or at least be clear on your own question.

[Titus]

VOTE: Zekrom

Saying D1 lacks content is not a valid reason to refuse to provide content. Real vote now.

[Titus]

Do you not know what pressure is, or do you just avoid questions for no reason?

[Titus]

Mastin, I see two possibilities for you right now. 1) Scum with Zekrom, 2) town trying to read me, 3) scum who wants Zekrom alive in lylo/critical lynch stage

The fact you are voting me over a strong scumread suggests you are scum with Zekrom trying to save your buddy. You would know better than that as scum to be so blatant. Yet it is obvious Zekrom is at best a Turing Test. You throw out a bunch of baseless conclusions so far.

As for why that wagon, there were only a few wih votes. OMGUS RVS does nothing. So voting dryfit is out. So that left Cats and Zekrom as voting choices. Mala is an asset if town, so I voted Obsessed.

Now the question I asked everyone has a purpose and we can judge accordingly. It's not like I asked about a beverage (which you oddly townread) or asked if someone prefers town or scum (no relevance). I asked a useful question that helps me gauge players. I know Mala and I will have conflict due to our playstyles. This is pretty much a newbie game given the wide range of experience.

I broke us out of RVS. You act as if RVS is the only way to get the game going. I am not familiar with the others but you ought to know better.

So how about you? Why did you single out my vote, when there is a self-vote to ask about?Trying to see if I am improving or not? Obviously, you feel your strength is reading people, what about your weakness?

One thing that suggests Town Mastin is your willingness to highlight what you perceive to be a scumtell of yours.

@H, why the self-vote?

[Titus]

@Mala/Mastin Yeah there's two heads but you will have he same alignment as your hydra head. If you are town, you are benefical. I don't have finished games with the others.

@Mala, I was never that blunt about getting into your head. Now that it is out there, I expect resistance. Thus confluct. I am trying hard to break my tunnel habits, that is why I documented the resistance.

[Titus]

@Mala that last response if mine was addressed to Mastin bc he wanted a justification for my RVS vote.

@Surye, Zekrom's reads aren't pure OMGUS. If so, he'd have me as a scum read.

@All, I am surprised at all the wagons that aren't Zekrom. That means there must be value to keeping Z in the game. There is no way that everyone who has acknowledged the Z wagon but went elsewhere is scum so what gives?

[Titus]

A player that cannot communicate is impossible to read. He is new, but beyond that, I cannot say. He's absolutely worth lynching today. There is no "good day" to get rid of the useless. We should still scumhunt but unless a better suspect comes along, he should be the lynch. Scum want a guy like him around bc he is this most likely to be lynched/make the wrong decision because he cannot answer questions.

[Titus]

Vla Thursday through Saturday

[Titus]

His move reeks of survivalism. Yet, he's not showing the hostility expected from town.

[Titus]

Also, Titus wants to lynch useless, not scum. I'm not saying endgame him, but that is not a best play right now, especially with up to 2 night kills, we can't be lynching for the sake of getting rid of bad players.

Both Titus and jklash are not being pro-town.

Sorry. There's no confscum. There is no way scum are killing Z. Until I have a decent suspect, lynching him is the best move, since we have to lynch him anyway. Scum then are forced to contribute or die.

[Titus]

Zekrom, you are throwing around a bunch of statements. Tell us WHY you feel that way.

[Titus]

Surye, if you think the vote on Zek is bad, why are you voting him?

[Titus]

Surye, I don't see how you can get any read at all on Z given his nonsensical responses. Why (I am assuming this) are you scumreading him? Please include allrelevant posts to that conclusion.

Dry-fit, you just chided Mastin for voting me when he had a larger scumread. Why are you then still voting me? ×confused*

[Titus]

So Surye, you are chiding me for voting Z when you cannot justify a scumread on him. If I am wrong why the hell are you voting him?

[Titus]

Minor correction, why were you voting him?

[Titus]

Surye, so you're saying that it was ok to vote Z until you had a scum suspect. I don't agree with your suspect. You are voting someone for being survivalistic, noob tell. Yet I believe it was you who chided jmo for voting based on a noob tell. Also, your vote just seems to find the popular wagon with the popular reasoning.

I have got to go for a few days but I have my eye on you.

[Titus]

Gooner, why do you have sympathy? Mala said, I'm scumhunting but you can't see it. Something pinged, but don't mention it in thread (cannot be verified) or which alignment. Mala can then go back to a post whichever way see sees fit.

Pisskop, without answering who, can you get any town reads from this? I see people being logically inconstient or obfuscating?

Jmo, why can't jklash just be new?

[Titus]

Mala, which comment do you feel was a vague fenceshit? Also, I am sorry for implying you weren't scumhunting. I meant that one post shouldn't have been reassuring/creating sympathy. The emotional response was just pinging my gut wrong. I am surprised why Gooner did not have a similar reaction.

You asked me why I am trying to get in Gooner's head when that's my strategy. Also, I don't see how me having a hydra is relevant.

[Titus]

<vote>Gooner</vote>

Some people play with Gutreads. It sucks but that doesn't make them scummy and Gooner knows that. Gutread players are good counters to "logic" players. I will get more in depth later, but pretty confident Gooner is scum.

[Titus]

VOTE: Gooner

[Titus]

Brief thing responding. That's not meant as an out. I like you more town than then. My rationale is that town Mala I know has ultilty as a reason for protecting you during RVS. I would figure that you alignment would become clearer later.

Boarded the plane.

[Titus]

Catch up time. Here we go.

[Titus]

@Mala, looking at your Dry-fit safety comment in #227 regarding his 211. His 211 is the very tell that he gets onto the other player for. He posts a lot of information on IIoA but doesn't actually analyze. Plus, getting off my wagon when he thinks it can get steam is a good way to live longer as scum do not want to be seen as pushing a mislynch.

@All, well I am at 229 and 230. Mala's response to Gooner looks pretty townie. Gooner is attacking Mala for her playstyle after that has been highlighted.

Gooner as a whole doesn't seem to be scumhunting. He's very careless at best and that is not usually Gooner as either alignment. First, he's going after playstyle after he knows it is playstyle. Second, when under pressure, he acts like there is a vig. Gooner should be reading setups. Third, Gooner is appeasing a fair amount. I call Gooner out on his Mala attack sucking. He says, ok I might go elsewhere. No defense of his attack, yet no unvote.

Obsessed then votes Gooner. Obssessed view is a little different but seems to be consistent with my views so far, which I like but makes me paranoid at the same time. Gooner's vote back is weak OMGUS. He thinks he has found a smoking gun. No one says that about their own smoking gun scumread. The post would have more pizzazz, more confidence.

Pisskop townread weakening a bit due to him claiming not to read the setup.

248 is almost certainly scum Surye. He gives me a lot of grief for saying vote Zekrom if no better scumreads come about, but then adopts my position for my exact reasoning once others do.

[Titus]

Pisskop, you didn't say outright you didn't read the setup. Yet believing vig could be present tells me you did not.

[Titus]

So you snarked about a vig possibility, but you didn't think vig could be in the setup?

[Titus]

Oh ok. I have major difficulties interpreting snark. Sorry.

[Titus]

Surye, both town and scum change their opinions. You ought to know that. It's why someone changes their opinion that matters. You leave no thought process trail at all regarding that. It's just suddenly you agree with me when my spot is the more popular one. Your sudden flip also leaves open the possibility that Gooner/Cats is your buddy and you want to get the game to regress back to Z.

[Titus]

If you really think the town is sucking so badly, then why aren't you attempting to take control or shake things up? Sheeping doesn't exactly fit when you're calling the group stupid.

[Titus]

Ugh, I want to sheep Mastin badly since I like Surye right now as much as I like Gooner due to his sudden buddyflop on me. Yet, I can't agree with Mastin's reasoning for boting Surye and one of Mastin's biggest tells is basically steering the town wrong the whole game.

[Titus]

@JMO, I've been a little focused on sorting the town leaders. Can you paraphrase your case?

@Mala, talk to me about scum Mastin. I know the buzz words with how he describes himself, but I don't have much experience playing with him. He's adequately familiar with my usual tactics though. I'm not used to being so behind when looking at players.

[Titus]

@Obsessed, I have no problem with the theory as it is my theory. I have a problem with his hypocrisy. He griped about me voting Z. Now he is voting Z for my reasoning.

[Titus]

@JMO, I've been a little focused on sorting the town leaders. Can you paraphrase your case?

@Mala, talk to me about scum Mastin. I know the buzz words with how he describes himself, but I don't have much experience playing with him. He's adequately familiar with my usual tactics though. I'm not used to being so behind when looking at players.

jmo, why did you miss this? For someone annoyed we aren't following your case, you should be wanting to work with people willing to listen.

[Titus]

@Dryfit, His scumtell is leading the group astray.

@jklash, my vote said, we gotta get of the useless guy if we have no better scumread. Gooner became better.

@Obessed, missed a question by you. Surye is not scumreading Z. He is pushing for a policy lynch.

[Titus]

Z why does that post make Z scum?

[Titus]

I don't see Gooner as scum.

I'm starting to lean on Zekrom25 as our best bet. If he's town, scum won't likely target him, if he's scum, he won't be targeted by opposing scum. His play is damaging to towns chances of winning.

I didn't leave a trail because I had come back to the game, read up, and saw Z playing worse and worse, shifting my opinion, hence me saying that I am starting to lean.

I'm also trying to get my heart back in this game, it's really frustrating when wifom and noob logic has dominated the game from a number of players, it's disheartening when not in a noob game.

i'll review tonight

Post 273 == Surye's wall where Z is scum, but only lists his anti-town play.

=====================

Yeah, you were shifting over to my opinion of lynching Z for being "anti-town" when the Gooner wagon took off. I quoted the posts where you go down Z is anti-town. Then, there's one Z post, which I have also quoted, before your wall where Z needs to die for being scum. I called you out on your flip flop on Z being anti-town, and suddenly you scumread Z. Why Z needs to shape up or die, you are probably scum. Gooner's probably scum too.

I need MOAR votes.

[Titus]

Can you people have an opinion on me and be consistent please?

Gooner, nice OMGUS.

[Titus]

I think the real question is why you want to vote

for

me.

If you're using a vague roundabout way of accusing me of buddying, I'm friendly with people I know. I know Zekrom, I know Mastin and I know Cats and I vaguely know Mala. Pisscop hasn't actually explained why he doesn't like those quotes.

Nope. Im accusing him of slipping and revealing you.

And yet you are voting me instead? O.o

You realise this is an often used scum tactic to get a member of the town lynched, right?

What the heck are you two talking about? Back up please.

[Titus]

Pisskop, nothing Zekrom has done has made an iota of sense. Why the hell are you actually believing this over infatuation thing?

[Titus]

VOTE: Surye

Gooner and Surye still look like scumbuddies and independently scummy. I cannot see scum Mastin sticking his neck out so far for scum Gooner. Plus the information on the Surye wagon is great. Plus all the cool kids are on it. Time to get on this wagon.

[Titus]

@Fonti/Surye, I had my own scumread of Surye but left my vote on Gooner bc I was scumreading him too. Mastin's case was bad but I was tempted to jump bc Gooner stalling. Then Mala and Fonti jump. Ok Surye is a wagon of win. No way all three are scum or we are boned anyway.

[Titus]

@Fonti/Surye, I had my own scumread of Surye but left my vote on Gooner bc I was scumreading him too. Mastin's case was bad but I was tempted to jump bc Gooner stalling. Then Mala and Fonti jump. Ok Surye is a wagon of win. No way all three are scum or we are boned anyway.

Was your read on gooner stronger this whole time?

Now that's misleading. You were scum posting the whole time. Even now your "defense" is a vapid you should vote the other guy defense.


@Obsessed, I have a scumread on Gonner and Surye individually. They'd be fine as partners but Surye's defense makes it less likely they are.

@Zekrom Scumhunting is asking questions and making statements to catch scum. Saying dramatic shit is dramatic butnot scumhunting.

[Titus]

obviously if you are scum please dont tell us that.

No please do. I love scumslips.

[Titus]

I could see Dry-fit/Gooner much more easily than Surye/Gooner.

Oh so you have me as a scumread now? And you think my interactions with Gooner look like buddy interactions? Do tell.

I guess since the Surye wagon is the big thing now I should comment on it. A lot of Surye's posts read scummy to me on a gut level, but I haven't played with him before so I don't know how much of that is posting style. So not someone I would mind getting rid of, but not in my top tier of lynch candidates.

Ugh, fenceshit. In addition, this says I should be investigating, I need to say something to look town but won't. If the major wagon is null, you should be asking questions.

[Titus]

I find it sort of interesting how long I've been sitting at L-2. There's got to be at least one scum on my wagon.

The fact you are sitting at L minus 2 suggests to me your buddy will not bus.

[Titus]

Fonti, site meta is different here. Occasionally people are panicked about self-hammers, but that is usually derp-town or scum anyway. Claims come later unless the wagon has an opportunity to change course.

Surye, do you have an actual scumread? Or you just pushing the case that makes you think people will get off?

Pisskop, why are you NOT voting?

[Titus]

Jmo, suppose jjlash is town? Who do you scumread? Why?

[Titus]

Ok, jmo, read this again. There are four scum. I cannot buy you only having one suspect.

[Titus]

If he flips town we can almost definitely find scum on his wagon

Yes. thank you . . .

Pisskop, I am thinking this could be redirection and I was wrong about jklash?

Mastin wasn't scum. That also surprised me. I figured smart scum would keep Mastin live bc my paranoia of Mastin getting the game wrong meaning he was scum. Gooner was an obvious mislynch target. So I am left scratching my head here.

[Titus]

@Mastin, no ICE ICE BABY! Damn.

@Dry, how was Gooner obvtown? Why Obseessed?

[Titus]

I think my handle on this game is non-existent.

Multiball is different. First, we have to determine if the scums felt threatened to be killed by the other faction OR having a lynch led against them? Do scums guess at a crosskill or kill someone who will be a threat to lynch them? Both?

Motivation usually leads to results, yet motivation is murky.

[Titus]

4 doesn't make sense Fonti. In a game this size, killing scumreads might leave a player in a position with no scumreads. I actually think 2 is more likely.

Of course, that says the options are mutually exclusive. They aren't.

Also, how familiar are you with this playerbase? I know you are semi-familiar with me, but I don't get how you comment on this layerbase given the join date.

[Titus]

Pisskop, most is wifom but how would Fonti be familiar with this playerbase? Sounds like something ripped from his chat. She would know me, but not many others.

VOTE: Fonti

[Titus]

I will look at that Dry-fit.

As for the setup. It looks a little prisoner dillemmaish no. The scums are best off if they both kill town. Second best if the other guy hits town. Third off if only they kill town. Worst is if they kill th same town.

[Titus]

I forgot Fourth, they cross kill each other.

[Titus]

Gooner doesn’t know the setup or is pretending not to.

Wiki says no vig. I’d not say that’s very alignment indicative.

I can see Gooner as scum. That comment about Zekrom needing to be vigged really rubs me the wrong way both because he should have known there isn’t a vig and because if you want someone dead you should be voting them, not hoping the hypothetical vig agrees with you. I personally don’t vote on gutreads either but it’s hardly mindblowing that someone else would, and I don’t think it’s scummy unless it makes a quicklynch likely – votes give pressure which gets better reads, and might make you realise why you had that gutread.

Who-lly shit.

Sheeping.

VOTE: ObsessedWithCats

Normally, I say more, but that's all that is needed to be said.

[Titus]

Re motivation: Eh, it's just something to keep in mind.

Titus: You know I like to research the people I'm playing with. That, and I have eyes. I didn't need one Day in this game to realize that Gooner was not the strongest player here.

I like Dry-fit's points against OBC. Let's see what comes of it.
VOTE: ObsessedWithCats

I didn't know that actually Fonti. I kinda assumed you knew everyone on DLP (off-site game where I met Fonti). I don't really metadive pregame, because I am not a big meta fan.

[Titus]

Sheeping.

VOTE: ObsessedWithCats

Normally, I say more, but that's all that is needed to be said.

:/

Still following my vote around Titus?

Oh don't flatter yourself. I am sheeping Dry-fit.


@Jmo, since when does sheeping make you twitch?

[Titus]

*slips on a banana peel*

Oh no! I slipped I must be scum. Seriously, no.

[Titus]

Yeah. Very rare for me.

[Titus]

I agree with Shadowcat on Zekrom.

I do agree with my posts saying Zekrom can be a liability bc he's making no sense. Yet, I see him literally trying to plot. 555 is utterly incomprehensible. Yet, he doesn't seem to be giving up.

Given Z looks town to me, he stays.

[Titus]

@ObsessedWithCats, I don't frankly care about the other reasons you may want Gooner lynched. This is multiball after all. You are scumhunting probably. The two posts by Dry-fit show the opportunism required to be scum.

Also, how can you have a PoE read when you have 3 scumreads?

Ironic how your town and scum reads are much more popularity contest. No one is likely to lynch Shadowcat or Jmo.


@JMO, do you go anything but random tunnel? If you are town, tell me what you are getting from this.

@Pusskop, that's a naked shock.

[Titus]

He tunnels as town? It must be a newish development. Well it's better than the one sentence drivel. Then again, I best remember him as scum in open 512. At least if that's the case, I'll know how to approach him.


Also, Shadowcat, why would you be fine with getting onto a wagon you don't know the reasons for?

[Titus]

Profont, I don't really give a fuck for your true or false question. I am not looking. Waste of time. I will suppose it is true. It is nothing deliberate. You vote my scumreads, my vote will follow. If you don't it won't.

By the way, this isn't speed game. No need for Cat to place a vote yet.

Jklash, there's too many townreads on Shadowcat and jmo isn't really scumread that much.

[Titus]

Obsessed, you mentioned you are a they. Which head is speaking? I need to look through something to see you usual tonal pattern to determine whether you are possibly arrogant, aggressive or shirking and defensive.

[Titus]

Nonprod received.

@Shadowcat/Haylen can you explain the whole site meta from five years ago thing. Slowly to me. I lost it during the downtime.

[Titus]

Haylen, a disagreement over meta isn't lying. That being said, Shadowcat is right that meta has shifted towards getting intent to hammer. Do I think it's smart meta, no. That's what it is currently though.

Can you show me any past town and scum game of yours Haylen? I am looking for temperment.

[Titus]

It doesn't matter onsite or off. I won't get to it tonight anyway. So just whenever you have a moment tomorrow.

[Titus]

@Pisskop, Pisskop is talking in the third person. That makes Pisskop scummy. Pisskop is distancing from himself.

@Mala, you just hydraleaked girl.

[Titus]

@Pisskop, yes. Generally I find distancing tells a scum indicator. On my old site, it was a pretty big scumtell. Here, it's more lean scum.

[Titus]

I'm not liking the false dichotomy. A lot can happen in five years Pisskop, Memories fade.

Shadowcat, are you getting the same vibe from Pisskop I am getting? Generally creating conflict within ourselves?

[Titus]

Townreading Shadow. Unsure on Haylen. Why?

[Titus]

What does "and also compare to your ISO. but." mean?

There is. You are saying one of shadowcat or Haylen must be scum. That's a false dichotomy. To assume one must be scum is to assume 1) meta is a reliable source, even when players can be aware of it 2) memories from five years ago are infalliable 3) there's a general consensus as to what meta is. Meta isn't that useful by itself. It needs context to be useful. It definitely should not be used to set up dichotomies unless the appropriate context is given.

[Titus]

Edosurist, no. However, it would be helpful if you posted your thoughts as you went along. It was the general consensus that Zekrom was impossible to read.

[Titus]

Pisskop, no. Someone can believe something without proving it. I encounter that frequently with my work. I will have clients who tell me the officer was lying about something. Very rarely is their proof. Occasionally, the cop or my client disagree so passionately and both say, look at the recording which neither knows is defective. This seems to be the same sort of scenario. Both strongly feel the site meta was as they describe, and they both would point to destroyed proof. The intensity ratchets up until one votes the other. The statements by Shadowcat don't actually have to be lies for Haylen to believe they are lies.

The more you talk, the more you are proving Haylen and Shadowcat to be town for me.

[Titus]

No. It's not faulty logic. The logic is just as sound as when we started the whole meta debate. You keep pointing to one has to be fake, but the reasons are weaksauce. You point to no possibly fake posts, which suggests your intent as town or scum is to cause and increase the divide. There are players like me who move their vote around like flypaper and get heated and those like Mala who appear much more subdued. Haylen appears to be the former, and I will be confirming that with my metadive.

My only question regarding your alignment is whether you believe this dichotomy theory (and thus want separation between scumreads) or are scum yourself dividing two active townplayers. Given I don't know you enough to determine which is which, my vote stays on OWC.

[Titus]

'Unaligned pairs' I think means simething different than 'not on the same team'.

If they are not on the same team by definition one or both have to be scum. only one town.

Yes. That's my point. You've only shown that they're likely unaligned pairs. I don't see where the "not on the same team" part comes from.

Fonti, why can't Shadowcat v Haylen be town versus town?

[Titus]

Ok well I'll let Fonti clarify as to what she meant. I figured Fonti was saying the possibilities were Scum v Town, Scum B v Town or Scum A v Scum B or Scum A v Scum A. I don't quite get Fonti's post. Hence why I asked for clarification.

[Titus]

@Pisskop, that's highly possible. Endgame scum tend to want to avoid mislynches. If you suppose scum are playing along until the endgame, they stick to the lynches they can later spin as "helpful" to the town. E.g. Zekrom over Surye (of course, this too supposes Zek is town).

OWS & jklash/Haylen ; Dryfit and jmo are both very viable scumteams at the moment.

Of course, there is the likelihood that is ever increasing of an OWD & Pisskop team

[Titus]

Edourist, if only we could lynch all the FoxNews people. Then criminal defendants and civil plaintiffs might actually get a fair shake.

As for Haylen, I would like you to elaborate on him. I can't get into his thought pattern.

AS for Font's 517 are you talking about the setup spec?

I absolutely hate your vote on Shadowcat. I love them as town. I'll walk you through that if you'd like. I would also like if you told me what pinged your gut, even if you cannot tell me why in case my read is wrong.

OWC is the scum on the Surye wagon, hmm or Pisskop. Longshot with Fonti but I don't see Fonti being scum ATM.

[Titus]

@Dryfit, wagon analysis is good but needs to be closed off with specific player analysis. Why do you not like it? Why is Shadowcat a distraction?

@Pisskop, given the context, he's probably referring to our arguments. Why did you ignore the bulk of Ed's post?

[Titus]

I am not sure. I obviously was distracted as I never felt you were on that wagon. I think I meant to say Zekrom or Pisskop strongly leaning Pisskop. Of course, I like Zek as town mislynch bait soooo....I am a little confused.

Happy Birthday!

Ugh, I really like this recent post by OWS but that Dryfit case was sooo good.

What do you think of Dryfit?

[Titus]

@Edo, if the case was provable, lying about site meta is a lynchable offense if you can tie it to a particular objective. That's how we can determine a lie versus a mistake.

I don't think Fonti can be lynched today and I'm not helping you lynch a townread.

@Pisskop, you miss a large chunk of the game if you're just looking at questions directed at you. It's also very reactive which makes you look scummy as fuck.

[Titus]

I've got what I needed and can be confident enough for right now about Haylen town....it's not perfect bc meta and multiball but Haylen has the same aggressive streak I do when town. So his vote on Shadowcat for lying makes total sense to me. Do I agree with it? Of course not, but I can see why Haylen believes it.

Pisskop, you have no flips in finished games with me, so no I don't consider myself as knowing you. Also how else was I supposed to take that statement in 671?

[Titus]

That's what I did.

[Titus]

@Edo, OWC looks like the only viable wagon that I like. Given the lurkiness, I don't think anyone else can be lynched.

Mod: Can we get prods?

[Titus]

Can you add that to the VC then?

[Titus]

Why is Dry-fit scum? What did I miss?

[Titus]

Pisskop, do I have another stalker beyond ika? I don't think we've finished any games we are/were in together?

I have OWC, a wagon with a town read and a weak scumread with pretty good reasons being derailed at the last minute...

and then I have a wagon with a null read (Fonti)... not liking me but simultaneously reaching out to me and jklash, a town read.

My vote makes the bigger wagon, so whichever wagon I shift to is probably the most viable....

Why can't I be given the ability to decide between wagons when I actually feel confident?

Looking at the players on the wagons, Dry-Fit is a better vote but not by much. Looking at the reason for the vote, OWC is better.

I'll split the difference

VOTE: Pisskop

Your turn to follow me Fonti.

[Titus]

I was struck by how I felt about her in this game.

I don't think we've finished any games we are/were in together?

Maybe I'm missing something here . . .

You're making a meta argument saying you were struck (struck how?) based on vague unsubstantiated meta when we haven't finished a game together and thus have no meta to share? *confused*

[Titus]

Shadow, join me on Pisskop, we can pull in a few of the lurkers. They weren't biting on OWC. At this point, I don't see anyone but OWC, Dry-fit or Pisskop getting lynched. Pisskop is my preferred out of the three. If a choice isn't made fast, it;ll be made for us.

[Titus]

Ugh, both sides of this wagon creep me the fuck out... Dryfit has potential but literally every scumread I have but for Dryfit is on that wagon.

VOTE: OWC

[Titus]

Accidentally submitted there.

Because apparently every one of my thoughts needs stating here, let it be known: I consider Dryfit suspicious for not claiming at L-1.

Site meta has moved to claiming at intent to hammer. I'd prefer the old meta you are using though.


OWC: Opportunism surrounding Gooner, very little defense or reads given but occasionally has a good post or two.
Dry-fit: Leading a very aggressive charge against Titus D1, and OWC day 2 but contributes little to thought processes elsewhere.
Pisskop: Opportunistic defense of OWC, attempting to create drama between Shadowcat and Haylen

^^^ Very short versions of cases.

Those are the only three that are remotely lynchable.

Fonti's also scummy for telling me to back off of Pisskop cuz deadline in one post and in the next post encouraging everyone to make cases that aren't the major suspects if they feel strongly.

My preference is

1) Pisskop
2) OWC
3)Dry-Fit

[Titus]

Fonti, as much as I want pisskop, we'd need both Shadow and Dry-fit. They are already on OWC. If OWC flips scum, then nail Pisskop as obv partner.

[Titus]

Pisskop might be a pipe dream, as much as it hurts to say it.

[Titus]

VOTE: Pisskop

Yeah, I got a vote on Pisskop!

Sorry Fonti, needed to post something for a mole game I'm hosting. I'm here though. Let's lynch him.

[Titus]

Oh, Forgot.
Dry-Fit - Nullscum.

Don't bother me again. Im VT.

I'm sorry if three votes bothers you...

Guys don't "bother" him again... he doesn't want to be helpful.

[Titus]

Dry-fit was counterwagony to OWC, yet I don't see you having a problem with Dryfit Ed.

You are the tiebreaker. Make a decision, which wagon do you like best?

[Titus]

Dry-fit was counterwagony to OWC, yet I don't see you having a problem with Dryfit Ed.

You are the tiebreaker. Make a decision, which wagon do you like best?

[Titus]

of. course it was.

You were searching for a reason to push me.

And you choose my JK read.

Who is this even to?

[Titus]

Now it's up to Haylen pretty much. Jmo is vla so I don't see him putting anyone at L minus 1. Given the deadline, wherever Haylen votes someone from the other side will have to bend.

[Titus]

We run the real risk of just being a kingmaker if we do not lynch scum. There's three town and four scum alive.

I am strongly considering a massclaim variant of claim your top townread, forcing everyone to give a read we can compare to.

[Titus]

Ok here's what I am seeing.

Looking at the fire teams kills in a vaccuum, I am seeing a neon sign that points to Obsessed with Cats. Who wanted Gooner lynched day 1 and jklash lynched day 2? Obsessed with Cats. This seems to be a little to easy, like the fire scum are wanting an Obsessed with Cat lynch. Those kills actually weaken my desire for an OWC lynch but still make it possible as kills could be obvious or a setup. That's wifom but the evidence points to OWC.

Looking at the ice team kills, Dry-fit makes a good candidate for ice scum. The kill on Fonti occurs just after Fonti and I started working together, thus preventing townblocs from occuring. This is also consistent with the iceteam taking out mastin d1. Dry-fit is also in a position to assume the natural power void here.

JMO is lurkerbait and tunnelled both days. I can see why he's here.
Edosurist replaced Zekrom who was useless day 1. I can see why both scum teams would keep him here, although he did seem to push against Pisskop which means he's got it a little bit figured out possibily.
Then there's Haylen. I really don't know what to think here. The major drama seems to avoid him for the most part (but for the Shadowcat/Haylen thing)
Shadowcat is probably the one person I still don't want to lynch.

Of course, I'm starting to get paranoid that maybe Shadowcat and Haylen are a team and that was all weakass scum theatre. Bleh.

[Titus]

Dry-fit who do you not want to lynch?

There is decent reasoning on ObsessedWithCats that you gave, but have you developed reads elsewhere?

[Titus]

Dry-fit, you have to pick someone you don't want to lynch for my reads gathering exercise.

Why did you ignore the fact I pretty much called you icescum?

[Titus]

Dry-fit, we really have to get scum today IMO so ignoring one part doesn't make much sense. What do you think of Shadowcat and Haylen?

Haylen seems to be avoiding using cir time to investigate anyone but Shadowcat and it is unsettling. (Did I get my pronoun right Haylen?)

[Titus]

While I do admit the case is easy, there needs to be more than Wifom here as a defense. He's still got the baggage with Gooner to deal with.

Haylen, you've made a typo in your question, you asked me why I believe I am ice scum in your literal question. I'll suppose you mean Dry-fit. Dryfit is the most likely beneficiary from the scum kills just like OWC was for the fire team. Dryfit has only voted three people the entire game. Me, OWC and pisskop. I believe a town player would do less tunnelling and more investigating. His ISO is even more vacant than I feel yours is. He has a random question on jmo that is never followed up on and a few other throwaway comments about major chains. It doesn't sit well with me. Then factor in his benefit by knocking off the town leaders and saying "I knew all along" he's in an excellent position. We're on Day 3 and the dude has 29 posts and he's been here since the start of the game.

[Titus]

Oh and please answer my question about who is your unlynchable today Haylen?

[Titus]

Can you tell us where you are and who is your top town read?

[Titus]

Hi nice to meet you JMO. I'm Titus.

On a more serious note, I asked you where you were on your readthrough, not who you were as that's pretty moronic. Reading comprehension fail.

[Titus]

My gut is saying that Haylen should be the play here... Someone tell me why that's wrong other than Haylen.

[Titus]

Shadowcat, why are you more certain that I am scum? Throwing out vague assertions does nothing at this point. We need to look at evidence. Also, how did I jump from probably town to likely scum? That makes no sense either.

So is OWC your biggest townread at the moment? How did that happen?

[Titus]

You only have two scum? What?

You think Dry-fit has been superbussing? Don't think so.

[Titus]

I really don't like how easy it was for people to jump on you. I used what little towncred to see what people would sheep that logic onto Dry-fit. Some of the things I said were even inconsistent. Everything I said on you was vague, beyond somethings being wifom.

1) You haven't posted. Well duh! Pisskop and I have a majority of the posts.
2) The kills were pointing to someone wanting to take over the town.
3) Dry-fit's a lurker.
4) The kill on Fonti prevented a townbloc. This applies to everyone left in the game.
2 and 3 are inconsistent with each other.

VOTE: Obsessed with Cats

I do think this is the best play today. While I'm not sure Dry-Fit as town, that was too easy though and OWC buddies right up to me.

[Titus]

OWC is at L-1 btw.

[Titus]

Shadowcat, that post just obliterated any townread I had on you. You are posturing here in the last few posts.

1) You give yourself an excuse to vote Halen, because you only refuse to me leading the train. It leaves you an out to become convinced.
2) The OWC lacks a partner is an excuse not to vote a scumread. It's also bullshit. Your reasons for eliminating the people you did are shitty.
3) The 819 post is good town play. A majority of lynches are likely to hit scum, but that doesn't mean we stop asking questions and doing things to find the scum.



Dry-fit, I missed this, why is jmo scummy? He has been vla for half tbe game which makes him hard to read. Then his posts are full of derp.

[Titus]

@Haylen, you're not. That was another test entirely to see where people stood as I like to see associative information. My vote is on OWC because I want him lynched. Shadowcat has basically been willing to go to almost anything at this point. The idea by asking the unlynchables questions is to draw in who should be capable of being lynched and who won't be lynched. If we encounter resistance to one of the lynches (without people vouching for the slot as town), we almost certainly have scum.

Shadowcat's dancing around OWC like a fiddle. Basically screaming for a counterwagon at this point, yet she won't put her vote on Dry-fit my alleged scumbuddy. The whole afraid to act thing is pretty scummy.

@Shadowcat

1) Then why aren't you voting anyone or expressing an intent to hammer OWC.
2) If you think OWC doesn't have a partner, then you've eliminated everyone as a possible partner. You can't argue there's no good partner and simultaneously argue that you've only eliminated a couple. That's talking out of both sides of your face.
3) How would it clear a scumpartner (presuming Dryfit here)? By adding a case, people would usually pile on. No one piled on with any reasons beyond what I quoted, with good reason. Dry fit is town probably. Also, occasionally muddying the waters in a no risk manner is good town play. There was no risk presumably of most anyone being lynched or changed before I could correct given the setup here.

[Titus]

How long is it until Mala shows back up? It's been a day or two and as far as I know she's had no problems keeping up with everything. This seems like a stall tactic.

If you are assuming that me, Dry-fit and Haylen are not OWC's partner, then that gives you a clear answer of Edosurist/JMO as the scum partner and again gives you no reason not to vote OWC as the other scum player would become more obvious. Again, there's no reason not to be intending to hammer from your POV as you do have possible partners.

[Titus]

Can we freeze the deadline until one is found?

[Titus]

@Shadowcat, nice OMGUS. I don't have a townread on your slot anymore for the reasons I explained

That being said, usually do allow for sick players, if they announce it. I can't factor in your real life if you do not tell me.

[Titus]

@Shadowcat, I don't watch games after I am out or that other players mid.

@3d, Hayeln and I pushed the successful train, but he was pushed several times I believe.

[Titus]

I've an exam coming up so I'm short on time but I'll address something I really think needs addressing:

2) The kills were pointing to someone wanting to take over the town.
3) Dry-fit's a lurker.

Relative to me and a good number of other players, Dry-fit's actually been posting fairly often and not just 'I'll be back at such and such a time' posts. He doesn't look lurky to me. The only person who might be in a better position to be taking over town looks like you.

I'll be V/LA until Tuesday

Might manage a post at the weekend.

That's precisely what you should have said pages ago. Also, no unvote. You sheeped without thinking about it.

[Titus]

I am pretty sure that OWC and Cat are partners.

[Titus]

The meta debacle with Shadowcat makes me uneasy about Halen but thete's no real evidence i already posted that question today.

I think Dryfit's a town probably. The second town is between you/jmo/Haylen.

[Titus]

You left out Fonti town on Day 2.

You also left out the big reason why my Shadowcat read changed. Those posts in a vaccuum look bad. Shadowcat's reaction to OWC and Haylen were big factors as well.

[Titus]

Yup, you are right on the scum wincon. The role pms are at the font.

[Titus]

Who is your unlynchable?

[Titus]

I'm trying to push the lynch TO get the information we need. For instance, Dryfit and OWC are near impossible to be bussing partners. JMO is not likely a partner of OWC. So if OWC has a partner, then it has to be one of the three refusing to vote him. The longer we let a wagon linger, the less likely we are to hit scum.

@3d, You cut out the trajectory in your understanding. That's why I look scummy.

2) I posted two reaction style posts. First was my bs case on Dryfit. OWC sheeps that when I post it, although it was 5 layers of suck. Shadowcat doesn't call out the 5 layers of suck either. I then say Haylen should be the lynch, no case. Instead of providing a response, Shadowcat she could be willing to lynch Haylen. Shadowcat should have been calling that shit out, but wasn't. It was a test. I supposed Shadowcat would call me out. Instead, when they are like "we'll lynch everything" it looked scummy. You just saw the front and end of the trajectory and analyzed them by themselves.

3) The role pms, town and scum are on the front page. Font should equal front. I forgot the R.

4) Yeah 3d. Pick one person you wouldn't want to lynch. It's basically a scum check. If everyone says they are fine with lynching a player, but we can't lynch them, they are probably scum.

[Titus]

Basically, scum have to answer 4 with their partner, but can't due to wifom.

[Titus]

@3d, it's pretty obvious why I'm not dead. I'm derping. Scum don't feel threatened by town leaders who have the puzzle wrong.

You ignored my responses to your scum theory, which makes me think you're keeping it in spite of the evidence.

It sounds more like to me, you picked the towniest player, put something together and then wanted to be on a lynch you knew had little shot of going through. I half expect Shadowcat to jump. Unfortunately, your behavior is muddying the fuck out of who OWC's partner can be.

[Titus]

I also just posted

Right now I like OWC/Shadowcat (could be you given theory but you could be new derping since you are new)
Then Dry fit is probably town.
So that leaves you/jmo/Haylen for the other team.

[Titus]

The thing about not needing to do anymore scumhunting is absolutely wrong. We do need to lynch one scum, but we have to draw reactions that make them obvious to the other team. There are quite a few scenarios here, but we need the non-OWC team to shoot a scumfuck here to prevent the other scumfuck team from winning. If OWC-team shoots town and non-OWC team doesn't shoot the same town, non-OWC wins. If both scums shoot the same target, then we get another free lynch shot. We have to cut off information so that the big team can't shoot the scum AND hide, thus leaving golden opportunity for a 1 v 1 v 2 or 3 v 1. Then we no lynch, hoping the two scums NK each other or the last scum has to tip their hand by shooting the most obvious townie.

That's the goal. We have to ensure a cross-kill. So that's why we have to hurry and hammer the most obvious scumfuck.

Normally though, I'd agree with you.

If we lynch town here, we are pretty boned, but I don't see anyone making a case that OWC is town here. Stalling this lynch out is exactly what I expect scum to do because scum must find the last townies. Town just have to trick scum into nightkilling the wrong team here.

[Titus]

As for the derping, it takes me awhile of derping to figure things out correctly sometimes. Look at Walking Dead. I derped on Oversoul until I figured out Candillian was scum. Still failed.

Ugh, loaded self-vouch question. I don't have the puzzle wrong, so your question ("How can I be town if I have the puzzle wrong?) is inaccurate and rhetorical. I'm editing it to "How can I be town if I

had

the game wrong?") Town mess up. We use the information we gain to solve the rest of the game. I'm always targeted as scum, due to my recent scum victories and frequent mislynches as town. Out of my recent games, I have had about 5 scum PMs compared to 1 town pm (out of the ones flipped obviously, this doesn't count ongoing).

You're muddying the water because I would expect town to know we need a quick scum hammer here and that was my objective from my posting. Only OWC's partner was supposed to resist an OWC lynch but there's two players clearly resisting, which makes no sense.

[Titus]

Shadow, I kinda figured we'd been working together for the entire game. So how have I not been reaching out to you? That makes no sense. Whenever I needed a vote, you were the first to go to. You're not suggesting anything here at all, just flailing around. If you think the plan I have to quick lynch OWC is bad, then let me know why. If the plan is good, let me know why. Please don't bitch about me not reaching out to you when Mala should know my style is to throw out what I think the best plan is for anyone to contribute. Also, your flail talks about applying meta... can you tell me my favorite meta quote? (Hint: Meta sucks. What people say about meta is golden.)

3dice, there's no way to ensure a town victory at the moment. Scum have to cross kill each other. Lynching the confscum is the only play. Confirming who the hell is town only helps the scumfucks. Right now, as it sits, the opposing team has a 50/50 chance of hitting scum. Removing the obvtowns (myself and Dry-fit, not sure on you yet), that gives scum a pretty good chance of shooting opposite scum. We can't force OWC's partner to play to wincon. We can't really apply pressure to the opposing team without running the risk of losing OWC. Ideally, this play could have been done yesterday if Pisskop hadn't acted like a royal scumfuck.

[Titus]

3dicerolling, I like what you are saying but why would scum vote to lynch Surye when they could keep their hands clean because we were doing all the voting for them? Not all early wagons need to require scum.

I'm perfectly willing to take the chance that scum will play against their wincon and shoot me. I would expect the scum team to cross kill here. We have to pick one team or the other team. We want to hide the identity of the town from the larger team, that's why quicklynch has to work. Let's suppose we find other scum and lynch them. What's to stop that team from derping? Nothing. There is nothing we can do at this point to force scum to play pro win con. I see what you're saying, I just don't think anything can be done to force scum to shoot each other.

[Titus]

Lynched Scum --- They have to shoot the opposing team to keep a shot at winning the game. If they shoot me, the best scenario is 2 v 1 v 1. No lynch, Lynched scum then shoots scum... the other scum shoots town.. 1 v 1 draw. Lynched scum cannot win unless they cross kill tonight, giving 1 v 1 v 2 (town). Of course, this supposes the big scum faction misses the scum partner.

Not lynched scum --- if the not lynched scum kills me then we can possibly get 1 v 1 v 2 again. Scum don't want this scenario either. If the big scum cross kill then it's 2 v 2 or 1 v 3. Either way, the big scum faction does not have to worry about the night kill and can possibly win. Scum are better off here if they shoot opposing scum.

[Titus]

The question I am seeing is "What do we do if Shadowcat's a fuck up?" Answer: Nothing we can do until she starts communicating.

You did just give me WHY Shadowcat suddenly is playing dumb and suddenly lost their understanding now.

Shadowcat is playing dumb so we can't lynch OWC because you're paranoid she won't shoot scum. There's not much you can do if OWC's partner is unwilling to townhunt and play to their wincondition.

The other option is to take a chance on someone else being scum and I hate taking a chance that scum will cross kill and the lynch target we choose will flip scum. We have to pick the safer option IMO. We have to lynch scum and then hope that scum cross kill.

[Titus]

Insinuating is a weak word. Yeah, you should hammer OWC. There's not much we can do if Shadowcat refuses to engage and at least put guesses with reasons.

[Titus]

Number 3.

3dice, if the majority scum decide to decide to shoot town to fuck us they can. We don't want them shooting the obvtownie to fuck with us. We want the big scum to crossfire. One of the scumteams is deliberately shooting townreads IMO.

[Titus]

Now, Shadowcat what things did 3dice do that are scum tells for you?

[Titus]

Mala, you should probably type out those gut feelings pretty quick here as d3 just hammered right when you were about to start talking.

[Titus]

Nice try but no on both counts 3d. Dryfit is right we no lynch. Even if we lynch scum, last scum kills town and we lose.

Also, you think jmo is my buddy after his tunnel on me? What are you on ?

We are talking until the end bc revealing the two scum to each other is important. I am out for most of the week. Trial.

[Titus]

If this is some sort of super-MYLO where we have to No Lynch, I would like to request that we still use the day for discussion and content. I'm sick right now and need all the help I can get when it comes to figuring out who the last town is.

You do not need to. We have to make our identities clear as town and scum cross shoot. The game is out of our hands.

[Titus]

Mastin, fmpov you were shot because a) you scumread me b) you are very hard to lynch and c) you could kill me if scum. Given jmo was having issues, I had to remove people who scumread me. I think your reputation bought me enough time.

[Titus]

Oh and jmo you can post the scum qt if you want or I can later. If you don't object, I will post it in 48 hours.