Open 547: White Flag (GAME OVER)

[Does Bo Know]

VOTE: Varsoon

Woop woop

[Does Bo Know]

I don't have a strategy for RVS, but D1 deadline is on St. David's Day, and the lack of vowels in Garmr's username reeks of Welsh.
VOTE: Garmr

Omgus
VOTE: pisskop
Because I wanted the game to start and we haven't played with each other since we joined

Vote: No one

Why have none of you joined the Varsoon wagon?

[Does Bo Know]

@DJ, why is Varsoon not scum.


He has gotten in trouble for using the "claims alignment" tell in the past. So if you are using that, that is a bad indicator.


How can you be so confident in who is town already?

More importantly

Why did DJ claim that Desp is town when he never even posted yet?

VOTE: don Johnson

[Does Bo Know]

Why Titus and Varsoon?

[Does Bo Know]

Why Titus and Varsoon?

Titus' reaction to DJ's post. It was a semi-joke at the time (I knew desp to be a good town player so I thought his motivation might have been what he said, but I have not heard such reputations about Titus and Varsoon) but...

if you guys want to lynch me because of that post I think that's kind of silly. but its not terrible because I'm not a power role.

You do realize there are no PRs, right? Just in case you didn't read the setup, the intro paragraph was pretty explicit on that.

Does this trigger anyone else's scumdar?

None of this explains why Varsoon is scum

Not knowing this setup is null, why is this triggering your scumdar?

DJ's explanation is bleh, it wasn't obvious that that's why you called Desp town.

You called him town. You didn't say "Desp seems like a good person to bloc with." That's my problem.

Bob why is Garmr town? Is DJ scum for trying to arrange a town bloc or just anti-town?

[Does Bo Know]

Zek is . . . different. He's not operating on the same wavelength. youll see.

but maybe scum, I agree.

Thoughts on DJ? Clearly the main topic of discussion but you didn't talk about it?

[Does Bo Know]

Ahh okay

So Varsoon is scum because...Titus RVS'ed him first?

[Does Bo Know]

Real talk No One, when are you going to drop this charade about your username because it was only amusing on page 1

[Does Bo Know]

No, because Titus questioned his towniness rather than Desperado's. As I said, semi-joke+still in RVS/mostly RVS.

Ohhhhh

Okay

You can be town

[Does Bo Know]

Ehh

Tacky but ok

[Does Bo Know]

Why did you avoid commenting that it was scummy in the first place?

[Does Bo Know]

DJ what does determine a bloc's success or failure if it isn't based on whether there is scum in the bloc?

[Does Bo Know]

Sorry to disappoint, ladies
But I'm not scum and the reasons for saying that I am are flawed.
Pathetic pushes ahoy!

But on the serious, let's jam. Who wants to toss the ball with me?

Opinions on DJ and Zekrom?

[Does Bo Know]

Hmm

I've actually never heard of that strategy before DJ

UNVOTE:

Pisskop what was OMGUS about it?

[Does Bo Know]

Do you know what OMGUS means?

[Does Bo Know]

Why is it so.important to.you that we all find his action immediately superscumzors?

It's important to me we all talk about something that is clearly something people should have some opinion on

[Does Bo Know]

I didn't, but I got enough info about your thought processes while I was alive. And given those thought processes and your response to my townread, you get downgraded to nullscum.

And now I demonstrate the randomness of my thought process: pisskop's town for post 71. Yes there is a madness to my methods. No it is not based on anything.

When I'm wrong about everything I will laugh, but until then I'll be right about everything.

Neither of these posts help explain why Beli went from town to nullscum, or why pisskop was town for D'awww-ing.

[Does Bo Know]

bo gets towncred for making the first legitimate accusation

Or

I was scumhunting?

But a Beli wagon looks excellent, much vote, so wagon, wow

VOTE: Belisarius

103 seems too out of place anyways

[Does Bo Know]

Calm the fuck down

Jesus

UNVOTE:

VOTE: Zekrom25

[Does Bo Know]

I learned that the wagon moved really fast

And that if anyone on the wagon is scum, it's Zekrom

Pisskop: what did I do? Dude already wanted to off himself, and in White Flag that's not something scum's gonna do from a flashwagon.

[Does Bo Know]

Zekrom:

Vote hops like a maniac

Tries to get some influence toward interactions in 99 (when I don't think it meant squat)

Doesn't even touch DJ before sheeping a flashwagon

Zekrom: any opinion on DJ? At all?

Varsoon can kinda be scum too, but he's been too laid back this game so idk

[Does Bo Know]

I never said DJ was a flashwagon

I understood DJ's explanation to a point that I didn't want to pursue him anymore

[Does Bo Know]

Why did he need to be on L-1 for you to sort him some?

Why can't you just

Sort him some

Whenever you want? Isn't that scumhunting?

[Does Bo Know]

Still don't get why you were upset with me unvoting *shrug*

[Does Bo Know]

o.o dammit bo.

unvote

Dammit is hardly an indifferent reaction

[Does Bo Know]

Not asking for a read

I'm asking for your opinion in anything DJ has done at all

[Does Bo Know]

Possible

Confirmed

Scum

My god

UNVOTE:

You're just VI aren't you?

[Does Bo Know]

[Does Bo Know]

I don't even know what to do with Zekrom right now

Srs

[Does Bo Know]

w.
o.
w.

this is fantastic.

Any observations about the Beli wagon?

[Does Bo Know]

So what are you doing exactly?

[Does Bo Know]

Are you townreading Desperado yet, DJ?

[Does Bo Know]

While I'm fine with being the D1 lynch, can we at least try and lynch scum?

VOTE: Xayzeck

You can die now

[Does Bo Know]

The clear attempt at AtE

Being "okay" with being the lynch as long as we "lynch scum"

And the poor push on Varsoon

Yep I'm okay with this

[Does Bo Know]

Probably not

I'd rather have other opinions to make sure I'm not just lynch-thirsty.

[Does Bo Know]

So do you believe it?

If so then why?

[Does Bo Know]

I think this is different from Beli in that it seems like an attempt to get unvotes because it worked for Beli

[Does Bo Know]

Probably not

I'd rather have other opinions to make sure I'm not just lynch-thirsty.

[Does Bo Know]

Here's my problem

I guilt myself into thinking every D1 quickhammer is a derphammer by town

And every time I've been wrong

So I don't know what the fuck to think

[Does Bo Know]

Yeah sure because scum put themselves at L-1

This is exactly the type of gambit I thought you were pulling

[Does Bo Know]

Scum reads?

[Does Bo Know]

On the real, Desperado's my biggest scum candidate this game.
If I do die (because scum isn't idiots), then look at his play.

Can you explain this at all?

[Does Bo Know]

I don't get the case on No One, actually think he's town

I think Varsoon is town though.

Will be looking at the Xay wagon

[Does Bo Know]

unvote
vote: xayzeck

unvote
vote: xayzeck

so much yes.

vote: xayzeck

What's up with these votes?

[Does Bo Know]

Garmr wishes to inform all remaining Town players that he will give you a free hug upon entry into the Dead QT.

Carry on.

Lol

[Does Bo Know]

Sheep

vote: ika

ps sry about the other day.

Are you thinking Desp is town then?

[Does Bo Know]

Don't like the IKA wagon, I want to take the crossvotes of IKA/Desp as a solid place for finding scum.

EBWOP: crossvotes of NoOne/Desp

So either No One or Desp is scum? I don't follow.

[Does Bo Know]

So?

Varsoon I love that you're pointing out stuff and all but none of it is making sense to me

Don't get what you mean about No One and Desp cross voting

Don't get why DJ's question is different or more interesting

[Does Bo Know]

Are Who and No one the same person?

[Does Bo Know]

Alrighty then

I do agree that Desp and No one are both likely town.

I can kinda get behind Ika

VOTE: Ika

[Does Bo Know]

The only wagon ATM that isn't on someone I think is town

Ika, do you find Varsoon or Desp scummier, and why?

[Does Bo Know]

Because I don't have a solid reason on anything else yet? Notice how I've been asking questions today to assess what's really going on. (Or trying to, anyway.)

Ika just came in today saying "Desp's last post is bad" and "Varsoon is scum for fence sitting," and that's not enough for me to know what Ika's trying to do.

[Does Bo Know]

Do you have any solid town reads?

Also, do you typically think of yourself as a townhunter or a scum hunter?

No One
Varsoon
Desp sorta

...you know, now that you bring it up, I think I am more of a town hunter. I do a lot more town hunting on my own than I do scumhunting on my own; most of my scumhunting is looking at everyone else's cases and determining on my own which one's the best to follow.

[Does Bo Know]

It sounds like scum play, sure.

I pick bits and pieces of other people's cases to make my own opinions. Sure it may not be my own scumhunting, but I can still gather my own conclusions. And those conclusions may or may not be different depending on my alignment.

Of course I do occasionally pressure other players if I see something weird that no one else had addressed yet.

[Does Bo Know]

I'm more inclined to follow the lead of Bo or Bob or...LITERALLY ANYONE IN THE FUCKING GAME EXCEPT YOU.

Beli are you usually stupid in Mafia games?

[Does Bo Know]

I think DJ is town based on his posts right ^^there

I'm not sold on Pisskop scum, anyone mind pointing things out he's done? Or was it stuff lost in the downtime?

[Does Bo Know]

I also have no idea how to read Titus's slot.

My problem is that she says she was trying to change her meta, when her meta from what I remember is pretty solid in terms of what her town and scum play were.

[Does Bo Know]

I'm sorry who are you?

[Does Bo Know]

Oh you're Zekrom's slot

[Does Bo Know]

Desp is even worse. I think there is more than one scum in {Desp, DJ, No One, DBK}. Bob needs to post more.

what is this shit

Your response was crap the first time, pls try again

[Does Bo Know]

It was 5 pages long and I dont remember all.of it, but a general TL;DR:

-pkop votes ika
-ika responds
-pkop says stuff
-ika tries to enter a bargin, saying he is okay with getting lynched if pkop can be lynched next.
-pkop says he wants ika lynched, but declines the deal
-ika threatens to self hammer at L-1
-people vote ika
ika gets in a tizzy, makes several posts about how.pkop

must

be scum, and hammers himself, citing vindication and meta-cred
-pkop and ika discuss some
-beli posts big bold letters
-day ends, tigers come

Right, that's what I generally got from it, so why were you scum again?

[Does Bo Know]

The vote of death?

[Does Bo Know]

Your response was crap the first time, pls try again

are you playing this game in two slots or something?

I don't understand the question.

Beli are you usually stupid in Mafia games?

Yes, at least as town.

Still, even

I

know that ad hom is a logical fallacy. Why don't you point out what's wrong with what I said instead of complaining about who is saying it?

I totally forgot why I asked this, but I do remember that if you said "no" it meant I thought something you said was scummy. I think it might've been something you posted in the deleted posts since I just ISO'd you and couldn't find one to refresh my memory :/

[Does Bo Know]

Desp is even worse. I think there is more than one scum in {Desp, DJ, No One, DBK}. Bob needs to post more.

what is this shit

Your response was crap the first time, pls try again

I was saying Aegor's post was bad, not yours. I'm agreeing with you, but I see the confusion now

[Does Bo Know]

I was saying Aegor's post was bad, not yours. I'm agreeing with you, but I see the confusion now

oh ok

who's scum?

VOTE: Aegor

Thought I did that but apparently I didn't.

I don't have any other good scum reads. I don't see Pisskop scum. I don't see No One scum. I don't see you scum. I don't see DJ scum. Like I said, I do more town hunting myself than scumhunting.

You think Pisskop is scum right? Is there something obvious I'm missing?

[Does Bo Know]

Thanks, that's what I go for

Hey you never explained why those people had scum in them. When are you gonna do that?

[Does Bo Know]

There's a difference though

No players have asked for my reasons for my scum read

At least Desp and I had wanted you to elaborate on yours

UNVOTE:

However, I think I'm just scum reading you because I don't like Zekrom and don't agree with your opinions. Weren't you in a Micro with me where you were town? IIRC I didn't even like your town play in that Micro, so I don't know.

And this is the part where scum pick on me for not having any more scum reads whoop, guess if I can get the time I should read whatever's left of the game.

Aegor do you have an opinion on Pisskop?

[Does Bo Know]

Like it just seems like most of your suspicions are circumstantial around a certain group being scum.

Some of your logic, for example:

- DJ is scum
- Desp defends DJ (is this supposed to be scummy for Desp whether or not DJ is scum?)
- I voted DJ then quickly backed off (same deal: still scummy regardless of DJ's alignment?)

I do see you have individual points for each player, mainly revolving around being on cheap wagons that ended prematurely because better reasons didn't really come up.

[Does Bo Know]

^^See I can't figure out if Aegor is dumb or scum

[Does Bo Know]

nevermind. it was zekrom. iso reads newbtown imo.

aegor, do you really think desp is scum?

^^See I can't figure out if Aegor is dumb or scum

very well could be scum. I don't think he is dumb. the gratuitous use of "ad hom" and "straw man" make me wonder. let's lynch him.

unvote, vote: aegor

Huh?

[Does Bo Know]

I don't see two factions. I see one of {Aegor, Desp} is scum and that Aegor could be scum with the people he listed that he thought had scum in them.

[Does Bo Know]

No I'm saying that's what I think DJ is saying: DJ never points out what the factions are, but from what I'm gathering there's really only one faction and the only difference is whether you are scum or Desp is, and you're right, that makes no fucking sense.

Compromise lynch? Why are you considering a compromise lynch this early?

(I think I get what you mean by it, but compromise doesn't sound right)

[Does Bo Know]

I don't know if they're both town

Like I said I'm having a hard time discerning if Aegor is dumb or scum.

What's the first faction again DJ?

[Does Bo Know]

How do you "like" the interaction between me and Beli? What does that even mean?

What's your read on the GM slot right now?

[Does Bo Know]

Aegor/Pisskop/No One

DBK/Desp/DJ

See, my problem with these two factions is that I can't picture the three people in each faction being scum together.

I think No One is town, can someone explain to me why he should be the lynch today? I think that No One is my biggest town read out of these five.

VOTE: Aegor

There's bound to be one scum in the remaining five and Aegor's the only one I can picture lynching ATM.

[Does Bo Know]

Okay

now

I think one of Desp and Aegor is scum.

That was too heavy of an argument for both of them to be town and switch both of their votes to me that quickly.

Desp said we're lynching Pisskop (scum read 1), and then listens to Aegor (scum read 2) when he says that we should lynch DBK (scum read 3).

...Wut?

[Does Bo Know]

And this is also the second time that Aegor has decided to switch his vote based on what a previous player said about his buddies.

He votes No One when DJ says Aegor and No One are in a faction

He votes me when Desp says Aegor and me are on the same scum team

[Does Bo Know]

Does anyone feel particularly comfortable with Bob's presence?


What are the top three scumreads from everyone?

Yes

Aegor, DJ, Bob

[Does Bo Know]

Because I don't know Zekrom's town and scum meta and I'm too lazy to look

His play was unreadable to me

[Does Bo Know]

Both of those reasons are terrible. Like really awful.

I have to agree

And I'm one of the town reads

[Does Bo Know]

His Scum meta is lurking. His Town meta is posting. He was posting in this game.

is this seriously it

[Does Bo Know]

I guess I have to dig about this.

Bob, those posts; they aren't coming back. I would ask you to stop coasting through the day now. I'm sure if your heart is set on me you will find an excuse to vote me.

In the meantime, I don't like you using the missing posts as an excuse not to post contents.

you can almost taste the uneasiness as pisskop accuses me of coasting knowing he would've been lynched by now if our missing posts were still up

as for nk analysis varsoon started to read pisskop as scum at the end of the day

VOTE: pisskop

The fuck is this?

[Does Bo Know]

I don't agree with the first part about his tone. I don't think that makes him scummy that he's telling you the posts aren't coming back.

I don't like the NKA because a lot of people suspected pisskop at the end of the day, right? What makes Varsoon special?

I don't like the vote because I still can't see why pisskop is scum.

[Does Bo Know]

I don't like the NKA because a lot of people suspected pisskop at the end of the day, right?

Who do you think pisskop would kill?

the kill makes much more sense for him than for most of your scumreads

Anyone else that suspected him?

Your NKA was
- Varsoon thought Pisskop was scummy at the end of the day
- Pisskop killed Varsoon because of this

With this logic, anyone that suspected Pisskop could've been the NK. That's why it's weak: you can replace Varsoon's name with someone else and your "NKA" still holds true. That's really weak NKA.

[Does Bo Know]

5 days huh?

UNVOTE:

VOTE: Bob

Though his lynch is unlikely, DJ will end up being my compromise vote if deadline reaches.

I've decided that I just don't like Aegor's playstyle. Or Zekrom's. He shouldn't be the lynch today. Maybe if he makes it to LyLo or something.

Bob is reaching to get Pisskop lynched. Sure, his evidence disappeared, but the reasons he's come up with are a stretch.

Does anyone have meta on Bob? Does he usually make bad scum cases or something? I'd search but I'm lazy.

[Does Bo Know]

After your wagon you haven't really stood out Beli. There have just been more eventful things.

Though I don't think you're trying not to stand out, so it isn't scummy.

[Does Bo Know]

I looked back at Desp's ISO (couldn't remember his position on the Pisskop suspicion), and he seems to be the only player that has been able to find reasons to vote pisskop.

...and I

could

see it, I guess, but I feel like Pisskop is just more butthurt than anything, and he's scumreading people based on how they scumread him. I used to react that was (as town and scum), and in some aspects I still do.

It definitely looks like Bob and Pisskop are not scum together though, so I think if one flips scum today, the other is definitely town.

[Does Bo Know]

pisskop I'm saying I can see where Desp is coming from with his scumread on you.

[Does Bo Know]

Yeah pisskop's been incredibly anti-town

But I feel like he's so anti-town that it's just bad playstyle

If that makes any sense

[Does Bo Know]

Would an Aegor-lynch be viable?

Because I'm good with DJ as a compromise but Aegor has just become scummier.

Why?

What about Bob?

[Does Bo Know]

<_<

Can you point out one example of something you found scummy and why? Or anything? I really don't feel comfortable with you wanting to lynch a player because gut at this point: we have flips. We have reactions.

I was cool with your gut stuff D1 and thought you were town for it, but only using gut at this point is strange.

[Does Bo Know]

Pisskop do you mind doing something better with your vote? Or does it have to be Desp right now? If so, why?

[Does Bo Know]

unvote
vote: pisskop

Desp didn't even have the courtesy to say I was L-1.

Can we please lynch him?

This isn't a scumtell you fuck

[Does Bo Know]

pisscup should vote aegor.

I disagree

[Does Bo Know]

why

[Does Bo Know]

Methinks Bob/Desp/DJ is likely.

[Does Bo Know]

You won't care about my case on Bob since it mostly deals with milking the pisskop lynch too much. When confronted about the missing post stuff, he makes up some stuff that I don't see at all.

This is town GM. I've played enough games with her to know.

[Does Bo Know]

And by "know" I mean "be heavily influenced by gut."

[Does Bo Know]

Nope

[Does Bo Know]

Are you serious? How does that make any sense?

So, townies have a 50% chance of lynching scum via random voting. I do not believe for a second that the pisskop wagon was town-driven. I am lynching off of it today unless someone presents an airtight case for someone else being scum.

Bob is almost certainly scum; Desp is almost certainly scum as well.

I whole-heartedly agree with this. I will lynch Bob/DJ/Desp today. Preferably Bob.

I think Aegor is town. I think GM is town. I think No One is town.

Everyone else is scum.

Simple. Or not.

What I want is everyone that was on the Pisskop wagon, to pick new suspects and explain why they're there. I might explain some of my reads at a later time, but Pisskop wagonites have some explaining to do since the entire lynch was based off of stuff I didn't see as scummy.

[Does Bo Know]

VOTE: Bob

[Does Bo Know]

There are some posts missing from the most recent site crash, just a heads up.

I won't have time to make a case or anything until around tomorrow-ish.

[Does Bo Know]

Yeah I guess I should do that, I voted you thinking I would get to build a case on you soon.

UNVOTE:

[Does Bo Know]

Won't have time to post today either. But tomorrow for sure.

[Does Bo Know]

like, look at that shit:

pisskop I'm saying I can see where Desp is coming from with his scumread on you.

but Pisskop wagonites have some explaining to do since the entire lynch was based off of stuff I didn't see as scummy.

come on

My point there was that I understood where you were tying to approach the Pisskop-scum theory, but I didn't agree that it was scummy.

[Does Bo Know]

And my Bob/DJ/Desp pick is mainly based on interactions.

Basically my case on Bob is:
- tries to lead the Pisskop lynch with missing posts
- makes a bad case on Pisskop in 623. That seriously looks like he's just making up stuff as an excuse to vote Pisskop since his initial material against him disappeared
- just overall hasn't struck me as town, and I townread more than I scum read.

[Does Bo Know]

and all the other times you pushed the pisskop wagon without joining it?

Huh?

and if you could see where i'm coming from, why do i need to explain myself today?

Huh?

[Does Bo Know]

VOTE: DJ

Scum can either quickhammer me right now, or both of you are scum

[Does Bo Know]

But like I said, Bob/DJ/Desp is my most likely team, so I'd like to lynch them.

I'd vote Bob but clearly DJ or Desp is the better choice now that I'd otherwise be in danger of a loss.

[Does Bo Know]

Well fuck

Majiffy was like the one person I was hoping wouldn't scum read me

I'm probably dead now

[Does Bo Know]

Limited Access until March 28

[Does Bo Know]

Desperado the other?

Lol

[Does Bo Know]

@Majiffy:

I feel like you know I'm scum every time I'm scum

Hell you caught me from the moment you replaced in

I suck at LyLo as scum. I always let pressure get the best of me.

[Does Bo Know]

<3

[Does Bo Know]

The struggle is real DBK. The struggle is real.

I hate to break your heart, Majiffy, but I'm not joining any more games for a while. We may cross paths again though.