Open 549 (C9++): Logic Conundrum (Game Over)

[neil1113]

After reading through the past 7 pages, here's my "write up" post of all my thoughts that I wrote down while I read... Hopefully I'm not too all over the place for you guys.

mod note: this was a spoiler.

Fuzzy:
Reading through so far, I did take notice of Post #54, with Valar responding to Fuzzy, and making it clear Fuzzy didn't seem to be reading. ISO Fuzzy, does he really contribute? Up to your post #97 which is where I started writing this part, I must admit you've done no scum hunting. You're questions don't help form reads, they seem to be filler. They are causing conversations for the purpose of getting information, but rather it seems you're literally just trying to be social. People are trying to kill you, and you're asking about the weather. Sigh. Ank even stated your post #97 was bad in the very next post, which was a point I overlooked up until I read his post. In your post #139, you're still not scum hunting! Your questions are not causing responses that help form reads (I feel like I'm a broken record with you), but rather conversing pointlessly.

Shotgun:
Post #58, Shotgun laughs at NS entrance, and then Post #60 seems to completely turn around and cast a slight suspicion on him while putting his FoS (kinda) on Bluebaby. ISO Shotgun, is his reads all over the place? Is he sheeping? Does he continue his push on bluebaby? I like how your post #110 is continuing to push BlueBaby, that gives me town feels, however the lack of logic makes me feel you're being lazy with your pushing so my read of town is really weak, however it is there. Up until your post #114, you've been less than contributing to the town. In #121, you make an assessment of Dumb and Scum being two different ideas and you're tying to convince Konowa that you're more dumb, so that you can invalidate the feeling of scum on you instead of actually trying to scum hunt and work for the better of the town. That's scummy to me, though I still wouldn't read you as scum just yet. Safety calls you out on this in Post #127 I just read. In your post #136, let's clarify you're still not really scum hunting by calling a guy who replaced out scum, knowing he can't defend himself. Post 142 and 143, again you've accomplished nothing through these except talk about what's already being talked about, while contributing nothing. In post 149, your response to the case against you is sad. You talk about not using the word fear (which you did), yet AtF is exactly what your case was. Then you laugh at someone elses vote... Oh in post 150, you correct yourself for using the word fear. Your post 152 in response to why you thought he PM'd the mod did seem like a legit train of thought though.

Bjc:
His play style seems to differ so much, the more I watch him play. Here, he doesn't seem so pushy and all over the place as he does in other games that I read him as town in. This worries me. His response to accusations from Safety in post #70, reads scummy to me. Safety's post #92, called BJC out on going back to RVS (which he did, admittedly so) and then he denies it in post #94.

TvK:
His post #104 helps further my point of suspicion on Fuzzy, while also giving me a look at his own style of scum hunting play. Also playing in other games with him helps, because I can get a better feel of how he plays. Town TvK makes sense right now.

Nobody Special:
When did you become a lurker? I love you, but you have to start contributing. You're making me nervous, this isn't the NS I used to play with... did you become lazy? Or are you scum? EGMEOY!

Aptil:
Post 105, (in 119, Safety calls this out as well) you don't really state anything. You read through and post a comment that does not contribute much, at all. I'm finding you lazy, not scummy, but like NS, EGMEOY. In post #124, you do the exact same thing... which is making me think you're anti-town, regardless of alignment. I've noticed you've been defending Bjc pretty hard for somebody that has nothing in the pot with him. This worries me. I already have a scum read on Bjc, and now you're furthering that read with your soft-core bussing attempt. In #135, which point from Safety exactly was made up? (Notice again, no scum-hunting in your post.)

Piece:
I love your posting style, FYI. That's a big deal for me to say, I've never really told somebody that on here before lol. However your case on #126, I really think you're off on your read of Valor. I've done the same thing, looking at Reck as scummy for most of the same reasons, but it has shown me it's not the nail on the coffin of scum. While I think Valor could be questioned at a later time, his responses to me read town and help me with my reads a lot. The play between Reck and Ank serve the town in my opinion, so I disagree with your case and I think your time would be better served looking elsewhere. In 161 and 163, your points of the scum QT are valid, but #162 from Belisarius seems to have accepted that and even admitted that you did not have a scum QT on your last two scum games. So why did you continue that point in #163?

Safety:
In post 141, I caught something. Do you and NS have something against each other? Do you not like his playing style? Or is it personal?

Belisarius:
In post 158 you said you're okay with a policy lynch. I'm not, and with the cases around here, it makes me nervous that's where you would "vote park" your vote. There are other cases to be looked at, and better lynch subjects to be in toll for, yet you'd go for the non-contributor...

For the TL:DR version:

My scum reads are: Bjc, Astil (these two helped with the bussing idea)...

Null are: Fuzzy and Nobody Special.

One of those two could potentially be scum, or some of my null leaning town reads could be scum as well.

With that said:

VOTE: Bjc

With the difference of the play styles and his play so far up to Page 7, this is where my vote feels most confident.

[neil1113]

Ahem, that was supposed to be a spoiler drop down box option, not a black spoiler... my bad. :/

Mod: Can you fix it?

mod note: fixed. I think it's better if you guys post AREA tags instead of spoilers which can be missed, are somewhat hidden and are difficult to open on handheld devices

[neil1113]

Bjc is not a lurker. He is a fluff posting, vote switching, maniac. But a lurker? And a quiet one? Not likely.

Which is why I'm confident in my read of Bjc, especially with his defense (or lack of one) when I placed my vote on him.

I'm not sure really how I feel about DMS. Shotgun I find leaning scum (read my other posts for more insight) but I don't know if I have enough on him yet to pursue his lynch. However I will definitely admit, the weak attack on NS makes me want to hang him, if not only because I like NS and that OMGUS made me upset. I can support his lynch due to the fact that he's anti-town, however I would much rather take out scum (Bjc) in my eyes, than anti-town (DMS) when available.

[neil1113]

people just reject my argument and deem it stupid/anti-town and

now I'm getting voted at with stupid reasons forced to make me look scum.

Perhaps it's because you're only argument (albeit however invalid) is against a player that:

A. Is no longer in the game.

B. Your case is based upon a fallacy that replacing out for whatever reason is a scum read when it can be a town read, null read, or (and more likely than not in every other case I've seen) a

NO READ.

C. You have no other case to address.

Here's my question for you, in the above bold:

Which reasons (reason

s

, the "s" is there for emphasis) did people (not just NS) give that are stupid and forced to make you look like scum?

With that said, I'm starting to see BJC as an acceptable lynch today. His recent posts aren't too impressive if they ever were.
NS and bluebaby slots are pretty damn scummy.

Hi, my name is Neil. I'm playing the game now. Not Bluebaby. If you want to form a read on

MY SLOT

, do it according to

MY POSTS

, not some alleged farfetched reason as to why the person before me replaced out and how "that totes makes em scum! OMGH!" Make a case, or shut up about Bluebaby.

Posts like this are exactly why I'm getting a scumread on your responses.

Ank, why is this? ^^^

I think you're seeing no problem because you're not actually looking. It feels like you've just blindly thrown out a small supportive gesture on behalf of Beli, what has he done to deserve this?

So clearly, if he can't be bothered to address the others, that must mean no problem - otherwise he would have said something, no? A simple logically leap really. No associations formed out of thin air like you're suggesting. Unlike your attempt to white-knight DMS by ad-hom'ing those on his wagon.

And calling someone elses vote as shit when you've openly said your vote is camped because you haven't got any reads.

You're the epitome of the kettle calling the pot black.

Noted. My suspicion on Beli is growing as is my suspicion on DMS.

[neil1113]

Ank, or "Valar":

Can you run me through your thought process about the question I had shot your way in the post right before yours?

Also, out of curiosity, what is your opinion on Bjc now?

[neil1113]

PecanPie, I think you're tunneling a little bit. Take a step back, pretend he's not in this game, and give your candidate for today's lynch, then compare the case you have now against the new one you'd be forced to form. If you still think he's the best lynch, there's not much I can tell you, though your case on him is not as solid as I think you are trying to convince yourself it is.

Baezu, be careful not to WIFOM yourself to death there. Take a breather.

[neil1113]

Wow Shotgun really? Disrespect must run in your family, you seriously just completely ignored my posts to you? Are you seriously not going to address me as Neil at all, and just keep referring to Bluebaby the entire game?

UNVOTE:

VOTE: Shotgun

Get the fuck out of this game.

[neil1113]

VOTE: Bjc I can't help but think him non-voting was purposeful, as was his lurking. He seems active everywhere else but here.

Die scum, die.

Beli: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cabnfnEq3-U

[neil1113]

Fuck you for ruining my joke, Neil.

At least I still have my fellow Canadians to fool.

Can you differentiate between bjc this game and town suffering from don'tknowwtftodoitis?

The main difference is in the meta. Different playing style completely from games when he's town, and his no-vote. He seems to always be in the right place at the right time to hammer on a bad wagon or at jump on it. His no vote was completely out of character for him, especially him being the only one to place no vote.

Wait, you mean Bjc is NOT sheeping anyone?

Not buying it.

[neil1113]

@ Bel
To get to the other side... heck if I know .
Can you explain your vote on Val please

Neil
How do you differ scum lurking as oppose to town lurking

Lurking to me is defined as reading the thread but not really saying anything. Albeit there are a bunch of reasons to lurk that could explain lurking away, but scum motivation and town motivation can be shown through what little is actually said.

The reason I consider Bjc scum lurking rather than town lurking, is the no-vote. It doesn't fit his play style at all, nor does his town meta match it. I can justify 100 ways why scum would leave their vote on nobody, but I cannot justify in any way why town would end the day no-voting? He's mentioned nothing about no-lynching or pursuing that avenue, so I can't see that as justification either.

[neil1113]

Can you explain your vote on Val please

Nope.

@PoPP : Assuming Scotland does not secede from the United Kingdom, what will be the reginal number of the next King James of Britain?

I'm not going to answer this question and ruin your fun this time.

However, your answer to Fuzzy's concern is interesting. Should we be sheeping your vote in regards to you have legitimate proof to the role of Val, or are you basing it off of a case? If it is the later, do you not think it is ill advised to reject inquiries about your stance?

[neil1113]

inb4 neil tunneling the fuck out of me.

Great defense. You're obviously scum.

At least in your town games, you TRY to defend yourself. Even against some of the worst cases people presented against you.

[neil1113]

Fuzzy: You can't defend against facts. Bjc has no defense because his terrible mafia play is exactly that, terrible mafia play.

Thus, BJC should be the town's lynch. Why is this so difficult? Unless we have night results that can confirm or point us in another direction, I don't see why anyone else should be facing the rope right now over him.

[neil1113]

Bjc made no attempts at making any cases Day 1, he was literally useless, and he ended exactly where he began, with a no-vote.

My question remains, why should Bjc not be lynched here?

Baezu, I'm not trying to impress you. Funny though, this is the first time you've mentioned anything about my play Day 1 and you not "liking it." Are you saying there was scum motivation there? Were there scum tells everybody is unaware of? Please, back your statement up.

[neil1113]

Fuzzy: You can't defend against facts. Bjc has no defense because his terrible mafia play is exactly that, terrible mafia play.

Thus, BJC should be the town's lynch.

Why is this so difficult?

Unless we have night results that can confirm or point us in another direction, I don't see why anyone else should be facing the rope right now over him.

A posed a question that implied somebody defending BJC or giving evidence of a better path. Watch what follows.

Don't like Neil's tunneling. I'm starting to change my mind about bjc. He's null for me atm. Neil is moving further into my scum pile. I didn't like his play d1 and so far I'm not impressed.

VOTE: neill

No response to why BJC is town. Nor any reason as to why BJC is "changing" in his reads. His implications seem to state that scum would tunnel hard on a mislynch, as one of the first posters of the day starting, and would "tunnel" until they are blue in the face. Can you show me a game in which this took place? Most scum ride lynches, but we won't go there... no need to WIFOM ourselves to death. I'd just like

SOME EVIDENCE

to back up your paranoia, or is it misplaced scum paranoia added in to look townie? You know, the whole successfully talking without actually saying anything scenario.

Neil's scum play is absurd so yeah good vote.

Seriously. I have no clue why he's tunneling me. You're either being dumb or playing dumb.

Again, great vote Baezu on Neil...

And again, he

DOES NOT PLACE A VOTE.

Seriously? Why is BJC alive? Why does BJC even play Mafia? Oh yeah, he does... in games he's actually trying to help the town win. He's anti-town at best right now, and as I've reiterated multiple times based on his playing style and lack of help to the town, that looks scum motivated to me.

Neil
Basically your case against BJC is that he is lurking and his play is not his usual town play. Am I understanding this right? I am not sure about BJC. Right now he is a null read.

Everyone has BJC as a null read, in every game. He's a terrible Mafia player in general, sad to say. Nobody can read him because of his terrible play. However, even amongst terrible towniness finds patterns of play. Patterns that would be broken if your motivation is say... changed? Instead of trying to help the town, if you want to kill them, your motivation is definitely different with your posts and actions. Isolate any other game of his and tell me, is my meta-reference wrong? Also, no my case is not just on his lurking and meta, but on the fact that he's

actively anti-town

with his play here, and his no-vote. In fact, his no-vote is why I can safely assume his play is scum-motivated and not just bad town again, because I've seen BJC bad town, hell I've PLAYED with BJC bad town, and that's not his bad town play. No-voting is like a completely different person. Or a completely different aligned person....

I still pose that challenge to anyone, anywhere? Why is BJC not the best lynch, and who is better / why? BJC cannot defend himself because facts are facts. You can't argue with them. Nor did he ever even attempt at talking about his no-vote and his anti-play here that I've called him out on. And admittedly, he has no desire too.

Again I ask, how is he still alive?

[neil1113]

I'm still around.

This is currently the only wagon I can really support in any way.

Vote: neil1113

Care to explain?

[neil1113]

I think I'm confused... why is not defending yourself a town-tell? And why is it more likely town, then lazy scum? If anything BJC has been, by his play this game, it's lazy. And it fits my idea of lazy scum pretty much perfectly.

P.S. Bjc, if you'd only respond to me, I wouldn't be tunneling on you. If you want to be pro-town, and we're both town, then by not responding and letting me pursue you more and more is only allowing town to go into a circle and allowing scum to slide by while we argue.

[neil1113]

How about addressing the votes on you Neil instead of this circular line of reasoning with bjc.

Plzkthx

Sure thing!

What would you like me to address exactly?

BJC's OMGUS with no content or lack of even an attempt at playing Mafia? Lurking style vote? Oh wait, I

DID ADDRESS IT

when I called him out on it. He's done nothing to help the town, and this is further proof by trying to follow a mislynch and ride wagons. He knows it's a mislynch, hell, so does his partner(s).

Or how about Valor's out of nowhere vote, with no case, no explanation, or anything? Oh wait haha, I

DID FUCKING ADDRESS IT

when I asked for an explanation.

Your ridiculous, no case vote? Oh wait,

I ADDRESSED THAT TOO

in post #287 and #288.

Are you purposefully not reading my posts? Or are you scum with Bjc? That would make sense why you don't want to buss your buddy. Your post above is literally, the worst post I have read in this entire game. Either you are absolutely, ridiculously terrible town, or you have no town motivation with your postings and you're scum (albeit, terrible scum.) Either way, your play is

FUCKING TERRIBLE.

Clear enough for you, pumpkin?

[neil1113]

I'm actually not sure who of Bjc and Neil is the most scummy. Let me come back to that later.

Please, lay your case out here. I'd love to hear how myself and Bjc could even considerably be in the same category of scumminess.

Hell, I'd love to see a single reason as to why I'm even scum. Anybody have a case? Anyone? Anywhere?

Bueller?

Bueller?

....

Didn't think so. Stop calling people scum if you can't lay out why. This whole "this dude is scummy, haha, sniff sniff" is getting old. Learn to play Mafia. Try out "this dude is scummy because of x, y, and z being indicators of alignment." At least then people can address your posts and we can get closer to actually playing Mafia and working together to find scum. I wish I was scum in this game, it'd be the easiest game to float through and lurk my way to a win with how terrible our town is playing.

[neil1113]

It would be nice if other people would talk... I feel so lonely over here.

[neil1113]

Yea . I also feel like bjc vs neil is town vs town .
Fuzzy has been better on day2 .
UNVOTE:


Valar morguhlis is a top scumread for me . His vote on day2 without any explanation and then not even replying to neil and answering his side .
VOTE: Valar Morghulis

This, and in Valar's last post (as Ank, not Reck's post above this), Valar appears to be on me because I'm the best choice out of the 4 "wagons"... if you can call them that, rather then because he has any real case on me. Seems like trying to start a wagon rather than actually scum hunt and that does not equal town motivation to me, nor does it sit well with me. Ank still has not responded to any accusations.

As for BJC, I'm willing to look other places, but as for scum reads, he's my best read right now because of his terrible, terrible play. ISO him, and tell me from his other games, you don't see a difference that's lynch-worthy here? Again I've inquired about any reason

NOT TO LYNCH HIM

and yet, not a single person has come forward with one. That proves to me, he's either scum, or truly terrible, terrible town. And as I've laid about before, I have more than enough to lynch him for the former idea.

Reck, I have a question for you. What is your view of me? Also, what is Ank's case, laid out in your QT, or did he have one?

[neil1113]

ITT Neil is STILL trying to justify a policy lynch. lmao

I like the fuzzy vote tbh, so

vote: fuzzylogic

Again please, anyone... ANY REASON why he shouldn't be dead?

P.S. Nothing I said on him was "policy" lynching. ISO me for my case yourselves and see how easily he's trying to dismiss it.

P.S.S. Noted: Jump on easy mislynch wagon such as Fuzzy's. Check.

Confirm Vote: BJC

[neil1113]

Okay Neil, we get that you're trying to get Bjc lynched, but you're not convincing anyone by shouting out loud that you really want it. So I ask you again, do you have any other scumreads than Bjc or is Bjc the entire scumteam?

I thought I answered this... but:

Bjc, Beli, Valar, Baezu are my scum reads. I think the stastical improbabilty of Beli and Baezu both being scum means it's TvS here. Which one is which, I couldn't tell you. I'd like Beli to be town personally, out of preference of playstyles, but Baezu is unfortunately seeming more town-aligned then I'd like to admit over Beli, and while I'd like to vote him for voting on me for biasedness, if it came between the two, Beli would get my vote for scum.

So really, it'd be Bjc, Beli and Valar as the scum team. With Baezu sitting on the sidelines based off of Beli's flip.

[neil1113]

Right now it seems like Valar and Fuzzy are going to be today's lynch targets... though that's very much subject to change.

In saying that, everybody who is not on one of them, are either of them a viable lynch target for today in your eyes? If not, what are your top 3 scum reads for today?

[neil1113]

very much subject to change.

Very much so; my vote on Valar is pure gut, and I'm not exactly fond of aptil's hop-on afterwards stating that it was because Valar had voted without explanation, considering that at the time I was the only one voting Valar and I'd done

exactly the same thing

.

If aptil's scumreading Valar just for a naked vote, he should be scumreading me for the same reason and be hesitant to vote with a scumread.

My vote's staying where it is for now because I'm still leaning gutscum on Valar and Valar's voting one of my townreads. An there be aught who thinks they can convince me there's a better place for my vote to be, I'm listening.

Baezu (and everybody else), what do you think about Aptil based on this post? Beli brings up some excellent points.

Aptil, how come you didn't call Beli out or pressure Beli for his lack of reasoning for voting on somebody that you voted for doing the exact same thing?

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Aptil

I'd like to pursue this direction for pressure. Be careful however, 6 votes is a lynch. This counts as 1.

[neil1113]

I honestly do not see a case for an Aptil lynch. Someone explain to me why he is the top candidate for a day 2 lynch?

The point is pressure, and it's already been laid out (and quoted, and requoted) multiple times as to why Astil needs that pressure right now. It's not so much that Astil is confirmed scum and should be lynched right now, it's Astil is ringing bells that should not be ringing if Astil is town, and because of that in order to get a clear read of Astil, they should respond accordingly to the pressure. Depending on their response, will depend on where the town goes (or theoretically, that's how it would work.)

[neil1113]

death in the family; VLA probably through Sunday

-reck

Skimmed through, will post actual content later when I have more time. Until then, I just wanted to say off-topic, my prayers are with you Reck. Keep your head up!

[neil1113]

I can't help but continue with my train of thought that BJC is terribly terribly scum. It's nice to have our replacements in the game, and having a new pair of eyes. Either they'll confirm my read on his slot and we'll see a BJC lynch today (more than likely what I think will happen), or they'll provide new evidence that is overlooked to BJC's slot, and I'll more than gladly change my direction should there be a reason why BJC should not be lynched today.

[neil1113]

Haha drunk Beli makes me happy. As for the place of my vote, Bjc is bussing his partner. That's obvious. Though the longer I wait, the less my read is as firm as it was when I first placed it because he's just as terrible of a player now as he was ever. It's aggravating. But there's no doubt Bjc is anti-town.

Baezu or Bjc both have my votes. Bjc I'd rather see gone though, personally.

[neil1113]

For some reason in my notes, I had my vote still on Bjc. Evidently I forgot that I moved it over to Astil, I thought Astil was just a scum read currently.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Bjc

There's your L-1.

And your pathetic AtE with me, and with the rest of the town, is miserable. I understand you can't defend yourself, but I guess I should give you points for trying, however miserably failed you did. And when you flip scum, I'll be the first to rejoice. And to be honest, right now, if you flipped town, I wouldn't miss you. Not One. Single. Bit.

But you're scum, and your little attempt at your AtE filled response will not convince me otherwise. I don't doubt my scum read on you, one little bit. And if you think I'm crumbing to say "well he could've been town" then you're wrong. I don't think anything you are doing is supporting or helping the town, at all.

Goodbye Bjc. (He's at L-1)

[neil1113]

Intent to hammer. This game looks a lot like open 545.

I'm still fine with this.

You might want to wait 24 hours just in case anyone has something to add.

I'd say wait until everyone sounds off, but yon deadline loometh.

Yeah I'd say wait 24 hours, just to see what those who aren't on the lynch has to say about it. Nobody gets off that easy.

Then, we can lynch scum and move on to the next one.

[neil1113]

Guys I can already tell you his first post tomorrow will be "well, I really thought he was gonna be scum. Shucks! But he was really bad town! It was good to lynch him, I swear!"

Okay. Just to show how much of a fucking moron you are, I really thought about self-hammering but I know that would only play to your wincon.

Really though fuck you.

^^ Lol

[neil1113]

What about reads on everyone else?

I don't think he believes in actually helping out the town, rather he's town or not. So I don't expect much from him.

Luckily this game, he's not town. And his different play style proves it.

By the way BJC, the case on you is so bad... it got you lynched.

Oh wait, that's contradicting. See if a case was terrible, it wouldn't gain momentum unless others saw you as scummy too. In fact it's hard to find somebody here who town read you. Regardless of your flip, I wouldn't say any case on you was terrible... if anything, I would look at the person playing the spot if you want to call anything terrible.

P.S. Great defenses.

[neil1113]

Plus, I'd say shotty's flip was a pretty sharp clue xD

Titus's flip is pretty useless to me; I'm thinking scum were probably shooting for an information-denial strategy, so we're probably looking at a PR-light, 2-scum game, since three scum would be pissing against the wind to attempt information denial.

487 actually looks pretty null to me; I don't see scum failing to learn the setup, but I can't discern between apathetic town and scum pretending to be so in this case. I don't get why it's worth a vote.

What the hell is this???

VOTE: Belisarius

[neil1113]

Beli, has bulba seemed scum to you today?

Nope. I meant it when I said I got a townread from his stance on me, and nothing's happened to change that.

I'm engaging him for his sake, not mine.

Engage me, Bastard!!!!!

Oh and I'm seriously considering leading a lynch on Pro. After looking through his ISO, nothing about him feels right and nothing about his posts seem town motivated...

ProHawk: Are you scum? Don't lie to me, be honest.

[neil1113]

@Mod: V/LA today/tonight, tomorrow and for most if not all of Monday. I'm getting married!!!!

Belisarius, Monday / Tuesday I plan on coming after you with all that I have. Looking forward to it mate.

[neil1113]

Damnitt, I let him get on my good side so I avoided my suspicions concerning him but after rereading his ISO, and realizing the only person that really was going after him at the end of the day...

VOTE: Fuzzy

I'm confident you're scum.

[neil1113]

I have no desire to remove my vote from Fuzzy. He's either today's lynch, or we somehow figure out who his partner is, or we lose. Either way, he needs to die today or tomorrow. Your choice.

For now, I choose today.

[neil1113]

I don't want to explain why I believe there's a 2 man scum team for right now. I have it all written out with my reasoning but I want to wait to catch what I'm sure will happen soon enough.

Until then, we should continue with the mass claiming.

Also note a couple things:

1. If there was a 3 man scum team, and Fuzzy was not on it, Fuzzy would not be sitting with 1 vote. Fuzzy is an easy lynch any game he plays, and seeing as how I can totally see Fuzzy being scum, if he wasn't scum, I'm sure scum could make a case out of it too. Any of the 3 could jump on, without worrying too much of backlash. Especially seeing as how only one person really commented on my vote, so it's not like you're putting the town in an uproar by doing so.

Yet there Fuzzy stands... with 1 vote.

So if there was a 3 man scum team, and Fuzzy is not on it, we'd have already lost. All they have to do is come on and vote. (They didn't. In fact, nobody did...)

(Unless of course I'm scum, in which case this is completely invalidated. Let your reads on me supply your view.)

There's one other really big reason why I think of a 2 man scum team being more likely than a 3 man, but that's the view I'm going to withhold from sharing for the moment.

[neil1113]

VT, popcorn to neil

Doc

Baezu (N1,N2 Beli; N3 Neil)

VT

Nobody Special, Bulbazak, aptil, neil_1113

Unclaimed:

TheFuzzyLogic99

Did I get everyone who has claimed so far's claim right?

Also Fuzzy is the only one who has yet to claim, so I think nobody should pile on their votes until we hear from Fuzzy with his claim.

Unless you wanted to make the argument you just made.

Baezu, he has an excellent point. I also think you misunderstood mine, it's not between Fuzzy or ProHawk. Fuzzy has to be scum, WIFOM wise, because he's only at one vote right now. Until I posted my request just now that nobody else piles on, it wasn't clear that we shouldn't or that town would be against it, which means scum has to either be off his wagon and not lynching him (if there was a 3 scum team), so for some strange reason not wanting to play to their win condition, or at least helping further his lynch (by placing at least one vote if there was a 2 scum team).

Point in case, it's not between Fuzzy or ProHawk, Fuzzy is indeed scum. It's either Fuzzy is scum, or we have scum that do not play like scum (highly unlikely).

[neil1113]

I still need to claim, don't really care when, but following the popcorn just cause its popcorn.

Palm, meet face. Face, meet palm.

Popcorn, ProHawk.

[neil1113]

I have not claimed a power role...

[neil1113]

I can see Aptil being a lynch subject, however I'm not exactly comfortable putting him at L-1 just yet with 10 days left to go till the deadline.

[neil1113]

Anyone forget we're playing a game of Mafia??? Where is everyone?

Those in danger of falling prey to paradoxes #22:

aptil (2): Baezu, Bulbazak
TheFuzzyLogic99 (1): neil1113

Not Voting (4): TheFuzzyLogic99, Nobody_Special, aptil, ProHawk

With 7 Alive it takes 4 to lynch.

Deadline (2 weeks) ends in (expired on 2014-04-17 23:59:59) (2014-04-11)

Mod: In all of your deadline posts this Day Phase, you've posted (2014-04-11) in them, next to the set deadline which is the 17th. Why?
Is the 11th the actual deadline and the countdown is wrong?

[neil1113]

I said I was okay with voting for Aptil, but Fuzzy is another one of my strong reads. Scum is within Aptil, Fuzzy, and ProHawk. I'd guess 2 out of those 3 are scum. It looks like Aptil is the consensus for today, and seeing as how everyone seems to have buddied me today, I would assume I'm dying tonight. So tomorrow, focus on Fuzzy or ProHawk, and don't let Pro ride the lurking status.

VOTE: Aptil

I've kind of had enough of this day, I'm thinking an ending of the day phase and a fresh night phase will at least give people another chance next day phase to post and "catch up." Hopefully next Day Phase, it'll be active...

[neil1113]

I said I was okay with voting for Aptil, but Fuzzy is another one of my strong reads. Scum is within Aptil, Fuzzy, and ProHawk. I'd guess 2 out of those 3 are scum. It looks like Aptil is the consensus for today, and seeing as how everyone seems to have buddied me today, I would assume I'm dying tonight. So tomorrow, focus on Fuzzy or ProHawk, and don't let Pro ride the lurking status.

VOTE: Aptil

I've kind of had enough of this day, I'm thinking an ending of the day phase and a fresh night phase will at least give people another chance next day phase to post and "catch up." Hopefully next Day Phase, it'll be active...

Ahem, that should be:

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Aptil

[neil1113]

Im guessing that if Aptil flips scum than I will be the main lynch target tommorow... saying that I hope Aptil flips scum. One less scum means we are one step closer to winning. Im not scum so I will deal the aftermath if Aptil flips scum.

I wouldn't say that if Aptil flips scum you will be the main lynch target. That may slightly contribute to your scum read, but for me and for most I think, you're not scum based on Aptil, but rather because you've been scummy.

It depends on Aptil's flip. If she's scum, I'd definitely look at NS. If she's town, you should be careful and take things slow, because you're in Lylo. It would definitely be between

ProHawk, NS, and Neil in that case.

Why is that? Why those three? And why not Fuzzy?

[neil1113]

Also, I haven't had the time to go back and look at aptil, but

the mere fact that he's had to be prodded

pretty much seals it for me. He's a lot more active as town, if I remember correctly.

Seeing this and realizing if Aptil was town, putting us at Lylo with the only reason for the lynch because of being inactive.... that's the scummiest buss I have ever seen. I'm definitely looking forward to your lynch.

Why is that? Why those three? And why not Fuzzy?

I'd still like an answer to this Bulb, and I'd also like to know your new stance with Aptil flipping Godfather.

Also Fuzzy, I'd like to know your opinion on everything. You're definitely not out of the clear in my book. The only reason you're not top suspect is because the #1 suspect bussed like crazy with the worst reasoning I have seen in a Mafia game in quite some time, and the wifom idea that if Aptil was town, we'd be at lylo because of "inactiveness." I can't say if you'd be my second or third lynch, because ProHawk's last post was scummy as hell.

Hrmmm, I think Neil is scum.

VOTE: Neil

Lol.

VOTE: Nobody Special

I think we have 1 final scum left, and it's between NS, Fuzzy, and ProHawk. I'm more willing based on the VCA, to lean toward Nobody Special.

[neil1113]

Neil
Do you think there is a link between Aptil and Nobody or is your vote based on the idea that Nobody was bussing Aptil in post 677?

I already explained my vote on him. His post screams bussing. Asking for him to clarify his vote isn't going to do anything because in his very same post, he admitted it snuck up on him and he didn't know anything other than what he said (which was the inactive part.)

[neil1113]

Seeing this and realizing if Aptil was town, putting us at Lylo

I think we have 1 final scum left

One of these things is not like the other one! One of these things doesn't belong! (Best results if imagined being sung by Big Bird.)

Explain yourself?

Sure, in post above, town is lynch, that equals 2 scum left. Town dies at night, that leaves us in LyLo.

In post below, scum is lynched. That equals 1 scum left. Town dies at night, and we're okay because we lynched scum.

Was that really hard to understand?

[neil1113]

I should post.

Didn't I post earlier?

VOTE: Nobody Special- I do not like this entrance at all .

Thoughts on this?

My opinion is biased, seeing as how I feel they are partners, that's how the perspective I read it from.

What are your thoughts?

Also, tunneling on BJC is not a scum-indicative of alignment, in fact it's not indicative at all. It's null at best. Unless you enjoy your cup of Wifom, in which case I shoot back: Why would scum be so persistent on a mislynch from Day 1? And then force feed it to everyone to get him mislynched, wouldn't most of the suspicion of the wagon come back to him? That's not very smart scum play...

As for my post, I was easily (and without argue) one of the most pro-town players of that day. Myself dying was a huge possibility, and still is tonight.

[neil1113]

If I were scum (look at my meta for reference), I would have already self-hammered. I would NOT be allowing the town to be getting any extra time to use during the day if I could help it.

I've not only stated this was my theory in almost every game I've played, but I've done it in several scum games when I had the chance.

[neil1113]

Except there is only one more scum left so if you are scum than there is no way you would self vote ....
gold star for me for pointing out the stupidly obvious.....

Neil....
What is your read on Bulb and Prohawk

Prohawk
Supposing Neil flips town somehow, who should be the top scum target tommorow.

Nobody.....
What is your read on Neil right now. I know that it might change as you do more digging... also what is read on me at this moment.

You must really be an idiot... I would self-vote regardless, unless I was the

last scum

because it would be playing to my win condition. I'm not going to go into WIFOM with you any more than I already have...

My entire wagon is absolutely ridiculous, and a waste of breath. I've already told you who the scum were. I already told you I'm flipping town. My play already backs that up. Reread over my posts if you must, but it's not a hard conclusion to come to.

[neil1113]

Right now I strongly believe Neil is our last scum..... his last comment made me think that more than I did before.


Neil......
You are at l-1. You said that if your not the last scum you would self hammer. Either you are lying about self hammering or lying about not being scum! please tell me which one...

Honestly I misspoke. I wasn't paying attention and didn't realize there could only be 1 scum member left... my notes are failing me right now. :/

If I get lynched, I deserve it. It'd be a mislynch because I'm town, but I can't honestly fault the town for doing that. I'd still rather lynch NobodySpecial right now to be completely honest. There's something not sitting right about him... I don't know I've just been off my game lately I suppose. I apologize for that. Do what you will Fuzzy.

[neil1113]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: NobodySpecial

I didn't really expect that to be honest... but to clarify, NS is at L-1 right now. Don't vote unless you intend to hammer at this point. I'm okay with the hammer, I just want everybody else to be too.

[neil1113]

Nobody.....
What is your read on Neil right now. I know that it might change as you do more digging... also what is read on me at this moment.

Right now, I'm kinda-sorta pretty sure that neil is the last scum.

And if he isn't, you are.

The two of you are my scumreads right now. But I can't decide, and while we

do

have one mislynch, we

only

have one mislynch, so I'd really rather lynch the scum today rather than tomorrow. (Also, I loathe LyLo.

Scum, please kill me tonight if we mislynch. Please!

)

First bold is a blatant appeal to fear to Fuzzy. You want to lynch one of us, Fuzzy isn't on my wagon, so if Fuzzy doesn't lynch me, he'll be lynched. That's really scummy, your appealing to fear and emotion here, as well as Fuzzy's own selfishness (human nature) to protect ourselves before we risk our neck out on somebody we don't know, especially if said person already appears a little scummy. You're trying to push Fuzzy into making a decision, and I don't like that.

Second bold is an extremely fake "town-slip." You're trying desperately to appear townie, by appealing to the scum, which you already are. You know you're not dying tonight, because you won't be killing yourself.

Well, I'm ready to lynch neil. "Off your game" sure, uh huh.

Vote: neil1113

L-1.

ProH, what's up with that?

This is the other post that extremely confirmed my read on you. You weren't ready to lynch me until I voted you? That's bull. You're only reasoning behind your sudden "ready to lynch" mentality, is that I stated I'm off my game? Read my other town games previously, and tell me my gaming style did not shift dramatically? You of all people know I have, because you played with me when I wasn't off my game. The idea that you're conveniently ignoring this, is scummy as hell. You're not town motivated trying to lynch scum, you realize the pressure is actually on you and that I have a chance of convincing others to join you, so you're trying to shut that down real quick by suddenly be "ready to lynch." I really hope Fuzzy sees through you, and if not I only have myself to blame. But even so, if I do die, and we have 1 mislynch available, you're dead tomorrow. I have enough faith to know you won't live another day. So if Fuzzy does decide to lynch me today, I'm okay with seeing you go down tomorrow (though obviously, I'd prefer to see you lynched now, so we can win the game... but you know, this is me trying not to be selfish.)

[neil1113]

Fuzzy, I'm not trying to do anything like scamming you. I'm being honest with you right now. Just take a step back and breath. I'm not going to blame you for any decision you make right now, I understand it's difficult. If you choose Nobody Special, I'd say you got lucky and picked the right decision and the town wins. If you choose me, I'd say you just got unlucky and went with your paranoia rather than logic (so it seems to me), and lynched me so the town mislynched.

Either way, the result of today is being lucky or unlucky. If you lynch NS and he flips scum, we win. If you lynch me, I will flip town, and you're just going to have to keep your head together, and breath. Tomorrow will be LyLo, and you can't let the decisions of today cause you to be so cautious, you let scum manipulate you tomorrow. You're a good player, believe in yourself and others will believe in you as well. If you lynch me, I'll take the blame. I didn't play the most pro-town this game, so I deserve it. If you lynch NS, awesome. Either way, it's not all on you. It's on us, collectively. No one member shares all the blame.

This goes for every game as well, not just this one. So whichever way you decide to go here, for the rest of the game and for every other game you play on here, keep your head up. You're awesome, and people are lucky they get to play with you. You're not a burden. Don't think of yourself that way.

[neil1113]

*sigh*

Wow, that definitely looked like buddying. Sorry. :/ That was definitely not my attempt.

Bulba is legit not around the site right now, and I don't think he's even reading this game. I'll have to double check to make sure, but I don't think I've heard from Bulba in a bit around here.

[neil1113]

*sigh*

Wow, that definitely looked like buddying. Sorry. :/ That was definitely not my attempt.

Bulba is legit not around the site right now, and I don't think he's even reading this game. I'll have to double check to make sure, but I don't think I've heard from Bulba in a bit around here.

*palm on face*

He's V/LA till the 17th. That's why.

[neil1113]

I prefer neil.

I don't

Um.. me neither? If that's okay?

[neil1113]

Fuzzy, just make your decision. This game is dying, and literally becoming no fun. Me and Pro both say you should vote Nobody Special, do you really think there is two scum left, and both are trying to force you to mislynch? That'd easily out both of us next day, and if there's only one scum, then you know either me or Pro is confirmed-town, and confirmed-town is telling you to vote Nobody. Fuzzy, make your decision, and go through with it. This waiting game is killing this Mafia game.

[neil1113]

That's a hammer. That should be it, Nobody is the last scum I'm fairly certain which means the game should be over now. We just have to wait fro the mod to come in.

[neil1113]

Fuzzy, you did it!

This. Way to go Fuzzy! I definitely nominate you as the Town MVP this game!!!

Oh, and fuzzy: In case you don't read the mafia QT, I'll tell you here. Pay attention to 750 and totally ignore 751. I felt

so

bad making that post.

Yeah you jerk... :/

I know.. I love making you feel bad. Muhahaha.