Where do you find a dissonance between them? I don't see why they both can't be buddies.In post 1308, pisskop wrote:I think he or Gaiden are likely lynches. I also think that if either one is scum than they are not buddies, which you do.
Open 542: Pick Your Power X/Y (Game Over)
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Before I do one for you pisskop,
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Tier jumped on someone with 0 reasoning or logic.
Nacho saw a wagon, decided not to join it, and if I remember correctly, after that post he starts on Celebloki.
Those are two very different events.-
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It's not so obvious, True Ogre.In post 1326, True Ogre wrote:your plan is to lynch the claimed town watcher, after a flip and a night kill, no counterclaim, weak and overspun cases levelled against him, etc etc?
1. Power Role doesn't necessarily mean town. The game can be 3 scum with PR and 11 vanilla townies for all anyone knows.
2. How does the flip and night kill say anything about bjc?
3. No counterclaim = doesn't mean that the role just doesn't exist in general
4. Weak and overspun = tell me the weak parts and we can still discuss it-
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I'm declaring intent when you get to L-1, so someone declare intent to put him there at L-1In post 1329, SXTLHGaiden wrote:this Gaiden only claims when he is at L-1 and Intent has been declared.-
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My thoughts are that whenever he enters a game, he tells people what to do (as scum, our team lost a game when Nacho replaced in, picked out all the scum to an easy win, and my scum teammate Mhork made a treatise on why replacements hurt games). Mafiascum has people on this site who are sheepable because their experience backs the fact that they are often right when identifying scum when they are town (making them equally dangerous when they are scum).In post 1311, pisskop wrote:Triton, thoughts on nacho? You seem to be harbouring some strong playahate. IODs got you down?
I didn't like it when he disappeared earlier, but when he's here he does make some good points. He convinced me to look at Celebloki and I did, and he also mentioned the PR hunt theory, which nobody else in this game thought of, and I was thinking "well see that's what experience does for you".-
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Ok I'm understanding you better. Your viewpoint is "what roles would scum teams likely want to own?"In post 1335, True Ogre wrote:What it is overwhelmingly likely to mean, however, is that if bjc is scum that either he or one of the scumteam picked the 1-shot watcher or commuter role. Does that seem likely?
Scum commuter, to escape from town PRs finding you, is totally helpful. In addition, it takes away the chance of anyone being a watcher too. I'd say it would very advantageous to take something away from that slot.-
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Ok that's true, as a scum, you don't kill mislynchable people.In post 1335, True Ogre wrote:Their thinking is probably: he was almost lynched yesterday, he's a likely protect target, so he is the best mislynch today.
However, under what reasoning, does bjc not have to use his watcher power? If you're town bjc, you've just told scum "hey i'm a watcher here" meaning you should be afraid to be killed at some point.-
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When i said "reasoning" i meant his own reasoning, I wasn't accusing you of not providing info. But to be honest I did miss your post in that time period. Let's look at it:
No idea who to watch = i'll buy this as null, because you can watch your scummiest read, but then if that person knows you're their scum read, they can let someone else do the kill, etc.
Role gets stronger the longer the game goes on = not sure how this works; i imagine the night before lylo it's definitive, but that's kinda late isn't it
If he was dying N1 the result wouldn't come back anyway = i'm going to ponder this for a bit
Only outed investigative PR is a prime target for Roleblocker if that role exists = i'm going to try to talk this one "out loud" below...
i'm a town 1 shot
there may be a roleblocker out there
that roleblocker, is not a 1 shot, so he is going to keep blocking me until it's no longer necessary
so i have to wait for either another investigative PR to come out, or the roleblocker itself to come out
See, this is where I have a problem. For bjc's "watch" to work, it requires us outing other PRs.
Bear with me, but if you're a scum and normal goon, didn't claiming 1 shot watcher just give you the opportunity to out some valuable town PRs? Maybe that's what happened. Scum teammate gets a commuter. BJC, back in a 4 position, probably didn't get a role since he's way back in the draft order. His job, is to go ahead and claim watcher, because 1: it keeps him alive assumably by saying he's a PR and he can scare people away from "mislynching" him, and 2: it sets up a domino effect to out some other PRs.
That scenario I just described, yeah it requires some smart ass scum work, and definitely people with an "IQ higher than 30". So what do we do?-
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And finally,
Why does BJC want out of the game? Because someone is hounding on him? If you know you're town, you're a PR, and someone is hounding on you, then maybe you have a pretty good scum read. Why quit? Why not stay in and push that person to say "this guy is definite scum". I don't see a town PR requesting to get himself killed.-
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I think when you're scum at L-1 you claim whatever you want to out the pro-town roles.In post 1349, True Ogre wrote:I don't understand how claiming watcher outs other PR's except to either confirm or damn him.
I don't understand how watcher/commuter is a strong role for scum.
And the watcher/commuter may not be a "strong" role, but is a good role for town to have. Part of my suspicion is always "well maybe bjc is just trying to fish someone out" and looking for a counterclaim. If no counterclaim occurs, which is a sticking point for people, is optimal play not to counter claim, seeing as bjc is lynchable anyway?-
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Spoiler: Fluff post: The Open 542 house party Part 2
jmo gaiden bjc? so two people picked 4s? so we're buying my theory back from 3 weeks ago that scum are wifoming? better not tell CTD or a bunch of other people that!
let me think about it, but i do not want the wagons moving away from Gaiden or BJC, i think you're being ridiculous at the moment moving away from those wagons-
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Which should be blacklistable IMO; replacements ruin the flow of games enough as it is. It's ridiculous to think you can quit a game because "you don't like how it's going" for you.In post 1409, yessiree wrote:
Towns also replace out if they think there's too many scrubshits that they'd rather not have deal with ya'knowIn post 1190, uctriton00 wrote:Thanks for the note about talking about site activity. Because....
Hahahahahaha. caught so hardIn post 1165, Saki wrote:TierShift has requested replacement.-
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Here's the thing. What *are* Gaiden's reads? His ISO (last checked, 33 posts long), to me goes like this:In post 1407, yessiree wrote:i'm gonna disagree here. Gaiden's reads more or less line up with the read I got.
0. RVS
1. how I picked my number
2. vla
3. he's busy
4. unvote, gonna start
5. Bulba, how did the draft work?
6. explanation to Bulba how the draft works
7. people didn't read the wiki during the pregame
8. name change
9. explains "wrt"
10. fake hammer on bjc
11. havingfitz, don't tell him the hammer wasn't real
12. triton, that wasn't a real vote
13. jmo, there's no way to tell who neighborized who
14. neighbor topics are created n1
15. here is a list of reads
16. vote nacho
17. my scum buddies are too obvoius
18. gaiden speaks 3rd person
19. i don't want to be at L-1
20. i'm at work
21. answers my questions to him
22. people claim at intent
23. hello notscience
24. are you town, notscience?
25. i'm town
26. nacho accused me and people sheepd him
27. follow up to my questions on him
28. vla
29. i like the idea of lynching jmo
30. jmo is my scum read
31. vote jmo
32. i only claim at L-1
That's what I got from doing his ISO. His posts, if anything, are either fluff, or information over analysis. i see way too little on analysis. The only times he made analysis are after I prodded into him.-
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I have the jmo ISO open and I can already see jmo at least asking questions or making conjecture. Gonna go do work, but I'll walk that ISO after (the same way I did the sixt wagon) and I think it has way more effort and hunting on it than what we just saw from sixt right now.-
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Actually what the hell am I doing, what I just demonstrated was pure gold. That's probably my first application of "information over analysis" hunt ever.
Vote: sixt gaiden
And fluff post below for bjc
In post 1402, bjc wrote:prod doge becuz exams.Spoiler: doge-
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First on in 866 was a list of reads. Often they didn't come with any context.In post 1418, yessiree wrote:his reads and the explainations in 866 and 972
972 was a reaction to me asking him questions.
His only action is reactive, and he's not being proactive. Doesn't this strike you as odd?-
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How are those two things you just said relatedIn post 1422, SXTLHGaiden wrote:triton, you seem to really want me dead.
so much for the town leader thing you were trying to push.-
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i can already see the JMO iso, and i only scrolled down half a page to see it's way better than yours, and that a counterwagon of jmo against you doesn't make any sense, because there's no reason (at least from my perspective) that jmo is scummier than you. i'll do the jmo iso as well again, especially since yessiree claims it should look the same as yours. doing some things at work but i'm checking in every half hour or so, so i'll be done in a few.-
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0. rvs
1. calls conversation awkward
2. true ogre, are you a hydra
3. explains why he's voting cirno
4. tier, i want to know why cirno didn't seem to want a high role
5. hermy, yes i agree scum can easily bring up number analysis
6. tier, do you think he randomly picked a number?
7. pisskop, what was that?
8. tiershift, triton is naturally slow to pick up on things
9. bulba, damn you have my figured out
10. pisskop, no the scum in a 4 block likely won't rebel so it will still be a strong block
11. pisskop, what was that?
12. i'm busy
13. bulba, that looks like a manufactured town slip. bulba, pisskop is asking why you are voting him but not ger, and it's likely not a deflection, but i think you're town after you moved your vote. pisskop the post you made was irrelevant. tier, no that wasn't a bulba statement, it was something i said, wait nvm i was talking about pisskop cirno. cele, i'm going to save this reads list. nacho, i agree with you on your bulba question. bulba, (fluff). ger, (fluff).
14. busy
15. busy
16. busy
17. vote bjc
18. unvote bjc
19. i had to take grandmother to hospital
20. tier, scum would be fine taking away commutes from players.
21. bjc, you got a pr? did you crumb?
22. bjc is a 4? we can't lynch a 4!
23. bjc, how do you logic triton needs to be lynched
24. tier, why are you volunteering to look for bjc's bread crumb?
25. if we kill our 4s, scum will laugh. also, if scum are actually in the 4s, they will laugh.
26. bulba, i didn't realize bjc was a 4
27. vote pisskop
28. pisskop, people find you scummy, killing you would be less distracting
29. bjc, vote pisskop if you think he should die.
30. i'd rather vote a claimed vt than a claimed watcher
31. sad that fitz died
32. twilight long
33. fitz, give reads
34. triton, i don't need your help
35. bjc, why would you try to end twlight early
36. (fluff)
37. triton, you're awkward.
38. prod fitz
39. thank you for reads
40. someone find who cirno neighbored
41. sixt, i'm not rolefishing. look for a cirno crumb. the neighbor would not have the old topic.
42. wait, bjc is alive.
43. vote gaiden, sheep nacho.
44. bjc, that was a horrible voting logic.
45. bulba, what if bjc didn't watch anyone?
46. he's a 1-shot, what if he didn't use it yet?
47. (fluff)
48. i'm busy
49. nacho, what did the neighbor topic say? what were his reads?
50. i'm busy
51. nacho, as scum when we play, we leave the top pick alone because we assume they are going to be JKed anyway.
52. scum get daychat?
53. forgetting that i did a daychat in a game where my dad almost died is scummy?
54. mentioning my dad died is not an ATE. i forgot the game because i wasn't in it very long.
55. double post
56. (fluff)
57. i only posted in the daychat twice, and how is forgetting about it scummy? i remember things from the daychat part
58. pisskop, what is your opinion on what triton wrote
59. pisskop, anyone can fake town reads. is that true?
60. pisskop, me pointing out my own town posts is dumb. give me what you see is scummy.
61. pisskop, so you accuse me of not caring because i have a preliminary town read, and because i lied about daychat. here is the link to the daychat, here.
62. prod dodge
A few things:
- This blows gaiden's ISO out of the way, so if I read your guys' sentiments right and you are trying to decide between the two, I think there's no comparison.
- I actually agree with pisskop's hunt. it was odd that jmo was in a game where he had daychat, but outright said "since when do they get daychat", and then started ranting at us for calling him out about it. Irrelevant of the ATE (which, yes, it was ATE, you could have said "in a game where i was only in it for a short time" instead of "in a game where i was only in it for a short time because my dad almost died"; that was an irrelevant piece of info to provide). It's enough for me to be suspicious.
- That being said, I really liked #3 and #4 and #10 and #13 as actual hunts, and his unwillingness to actually end the day and get more info out of a lynch. If scum knew they just got a townie killed, why would they want a townie talking at all? This is probably my most townie read post by him.
- I see what yessiree is talking about, I typed out the words fluff and busy enough times in the second half of the game (the majority of my town reads come from the early ISO).
For me, this is outweighed enough to not desire to have jmo vs gaiden be a lynch. I'd much rather it be bjc vs gaiden. (as i said, i don't like how bjc even wanted to end the twilight so early, and bjc was saying "just kill pisskop he is distracting". Didn't someone in this game just call out jmo for wanting to kill pisskop for being distracting? if so, why not call bjc out on the same premise?)-
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I think it's pro-scum to get a twilight over with as soon as possible, and nobody discusses anything. Prolonging twilight, talking, etc, doesn't help matters when you're scum and you got a ML down and you ask him to give his opinion.In post 1431, yessiree wrote:So in your eyes, scum will just secretly laugh i their QT during twilight whenever a mislynch occurs?
Not to be derp on my part, but are you saying that jmo is probably doing all those twilight things to look town to people like me?-
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Questions for jmo
1. What did you mean back a while ago when you said "someone find out who Cirno neighborized?"?
2. bjc survived the night. Why did you find that surprising, and what do you take away from that?-
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This doesn't apply because the scum were working together and coordinated their draft slots. As far as anyone knows, one of his higher drafting teammates chose it.In post 1444, True Ogre wrote:bjc is last in the chain.-
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Yes I know that.In post 1451, geraintm wrote:Some people might actually be good at this game and not make obvious screw ups
(Hyperbole) I should just revoke all my town reads, conclude every game is 1 town vs all scum, and hope I draw a cop power role so i can investigate everyone each night for sure. (/hyperbole)-
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I don't think you have my assertions on bjc down.In post 1453, True Ogre wrote:"Oh you're right, he couldn't have picked the role so my previous assertion that he picked it to deny town the role is wrong, so instead I'm going to new levels, man, and saying someone on his team picked it, so yeah-huh, I'm still right".
My assertions are:
1. Being last in the chain of a pick your power setup, I don't see him managing to snag a role
2. If he DID get a role, it doesn't mean he's town
3. The theory that no counterclaim means he is the PR, can be debunked by
- 3a. someone else on his team has the role (either watcher, or the commuter role)
- 3b. nobody got the role
- 3c. a townie has the role, and they have knowledge of optimal play, in that they don't need to counterclaim someone they see as lynchable. A 1 for 0 trade.
I think bjc is scummy for reasons not everyone believes, namely that I think he is being unhelpful, unscumhunty, unmotivated, and in general trolling everyone by pretending to have a PR and not providing any kind of proof by simply saying he didn't use it.-
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It's been said that "so we're going to lynch an uncounterclaimed PR?" several times. It may have been you in fact who said it.In post 1459, True Ogre wrote:Who is pushing the theory that no counterclaim means town?
And I do have a vote on Gaiden. Vote count is probably wrong.
@Mod, I voted Gaiden in #1415, it's not on BJC anymore-
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it's happening again
like a soldier with PTSD
i'm having flashbacks
how did all of a sudden you guys no longer care about jmo? what the hell I thought you guys saw scum in that so bad and now you're doing a Nacho wagon?
Spoiler: Fluff Post: Open 542 house party episode 3: Mean Girls-
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In post 1496, yessiree wrote:I thought you should be familiar with this. It's called having multiple scumreads?Spoiler: well played
but I was still hoping we get a prod out of JMO too to see what his read list is to analyze it since he conveniently never really did one-
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[courtesy page top grab for mod, permission to him to use this space to place a vote count]
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So you don't believe his claim?In post 1498, pisskop wrote:TO. will you revote gaiden if the time comes? ill sheep you.-
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<3In post 1501, pisskop wrote:i think he is a jailkeeper. I buy it. now is he town?-
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Ever hear of role fishing?In post 1475, geraintm wrote:So what happens now then everyone?
He has claimed, and you lot don't seem to like lynching people who with a role.
I cannot see a counterclaim coming, scum will be too smart to let that happen.-
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Wait if Tammy is TierShift (who yes I agree is a defeated scum replacement; town replace-outs look way different than TierShift leaving with his tail between his legs, although that's far from my entire case on him)
then who is Cait Sith-
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that is the most ridiculous thing i have ever heard anyone doIn post 1529, Tammy wrote:I skimmed some of my predecessor's iso enough to get a town read before I replaced in.
"i read my predecessors ISO to get a town read"
what the hell, why doesn't THE ROLE PM ITSELF give you an idea what alignment you are? why was it necessary to ISO yourself to get a town read? am I reading that sentence correctly?
this TierShift slow, such bad-
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You tried very very hard to make sure this Gaiden lynch never went through
Your alternative was to push it all on jmo
After Gaiden claimed JK, you said "ok let's get nacho"
This is a classic "let's not let get my scum buddy lynched" but that means I need to change one of my reads on Tier and bjc and I need to chew on that for a bit-
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you have no explanation of how you scumread nacho, from how long you "constructed" a jmo lynch, and then as soon as the claim happened you went *poof* oh wellIn post 1592, yessiree wrote:because I scumread jmo and Nacho?
If nacho was a big read of yours, why were you making a jmo wagon? If jmo WAS a bigger read then nacho, then why did you put your next vote on nacho instead of jmo after the claim?-
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Your scumread on nacho happened what, very early on in your appearance here, but then you go on, and on, and on, and on, about jmo.
You even had a jmo wagon that was, what, L-3? Even possibly then including me on it (you know you had me swinging, you could ******* see it when I broke down the jmo ISO and started seeing inaction in the second half). Why move off of a jmo wagon which is L-3 and move onto a Nacho one?
"My case on Nacho is his push on gaiden with a bullshit case"..... that makes no sense. This case on Nacho was made a long time ago, and was existent while you were still in the game. And yet, you put a wagon on jmo. Look at the post counts and timings (I can do it for you but you know what I'm talking about). You (or who was it) said something about it requiring an IQ of 30. But despite that, you create a jmo wagon.
And when the claim happens, that makes the Nacho case worse? You're going to have to ******* talk your way out of this one:
Nacho makes supposed IQ30 case against sixt --> yessiree forms jmo wagon --> sixt claims jail --> ???? --> yessiree goes to nacho-
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In post 1606, uctriton00 wrote:"My case on Nacho is his push on gaiden with a bullshit case"..... that makes no sense. This casefromNacho was made a long time ago, and was existent while you were still in the game. And yet, you put a wagon on jmo. Look at the post counts and timings (I can do it for you but you know what I'm talking about). You (or who was it) said something about it requiring an IQ of 30. But despite that, you create a jmo wagon.-
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Where did all the jmo scum reading go? How did you spend half your ISO saying he was scum, posting a toot toot get on the train read, then have this mother-******* change of heart to all of a sudden put Nacho much higher?In post 1609, yessiree wrote:lol
if you boil down Nacho's case on gaiden it's basically saying that gaiden didn't get nightkilled, which is built on a crapload of wifom-
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Wrong, you had:In post 1614, yessiree wrote:in other words, that jmo wagon wasn't going anywhere and my vote was being useless,
STXLHGaiden
yessiree
pisskop
True Ogre had just unvoted
And you had me who even went through step by step with an ISO, and I even affirmed that jmo does indeed look poor in the second half of his ISO.
There was plenty of reason to keep on a jmo wagon.-
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Easy.In post 1617, yessiree wrote:then what scum motivation is there that I would start a different one instead of pushing it?
It's the same reason that there are two votes on jmo right now and you're not joining.
And the reason why jmo is not concerned that someone "yessiree" just tried to kill him the night before, but didn't vote you.
I think you tried to bus jmo.
Because jmo is likely scum.
(If this is true, then I'm wrong on bjc and Tiershift.)-
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uctriton00 Mafia Scum
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Why the oops? What were you trying to do?In post 1602, bjc wrote:Because I mixed up the watcher role with the tracker and didn't realize it until it was too late.
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uctriton00 Mafia Scum
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I just wrote this earlier today and it sounds completely idiotic. Why propose a wagon on another scum buddy when it's on your current scum buddy?In post 1620, uctriton00 wrote:Because jmo is likely scum.
Disregard that statement I wrote.-
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uctriton00 Mafia Scum
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I've mulled about this for a bit. I'm really bothered at the attack on Nacho both last game night and this game morning.
That was not a bus. Why would Nacho (a good player), take out a teammate who had no real heat on him, and was a powerful PR on his own side? That makes no sense.
Pisskop I've been happy with his play, and I don't suspect him.
Bulba, I've had a town read, especially with how his thoughts progress with mine (if it's scum buddying me, then it's damn good buddying).
Yessiree though?
Yessiree you've backtracked on your IQ 30 comment (too lazy to link but you just said "look I wasn't really into the game back then"), which sounds odd because you were really adamant about your feelings about it.
Yessiree you also just now asked pisskop "are there any other scumreads you'd want to go after?". To me it seems like you're trying to buddy up here.
And you know very well my argument of how I just don't see the connection of how you flowed hard into jmo death city, saw a sixt claim, and then jumped onto the nacho kill wagon. How did sixt claiming all of a sudden make it not desirable to kill jmo? And now tie it into your motivations this morning; you went back to a nacho motivation "convinced it was a bus". But you left it again, to go back to jmo?
You also had this post recently: "If I was scum, I would have kept pushing your lynch yesterday, which I DID NOT choose to do". Here's where your problem is:
Yessiree you think you're town for pushing a wagon but not pushing it all the way? This is only true, if you or anyone knows what alignment jmo is. Remember, we don't know what he is. He could be scum. If he is scum, do you want scum-cred for not pushing the wagon?
It seems like you want to buy town-cred by saying you didn't push jmo off a cliff... which implies he is town (which is only something a scum player could know). And if you want to imply he's town.... but... you're voting him? You're voting a townie?
Vote stays on yessiree.-
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uctriton00 Mafia Scum
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In post 1602, bjc wrote:Because I mixed up the watcher role with the tracker and didn't realize it until it was too late.
Spoiler: Fluff Post: Open 542 Basketball Game continued-
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uctriton00 Mafia Scum
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Bulba did you not read anything I wrote about sixt that day?In post 1674, Bulbazak wrote:and there was nothing that pointed to him being scum.-
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uctriton00 Mafia Scum
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I don't even know why we're going into this again but here you go:
In post 1413, uctriton00 wrote:That's what I got from doing his ISO. His posts, if anything, are either fluff, or information over analysis. i see way too little on analysis. The only times he made analysis are after I prodded into him.-
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uctriton00 Mafia Scum
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What are you implying in this post? That "Nacho's case is BS because the scum team would need an IQ of 30" was not genuine at all? Because right now you are saying that it IS a genuine case.In post 1610, yessiree wrote:look uctriton, that post I made about nacho with the IQ below 30 stuff is when I haven't actually read the thread, I was still catching up
using that to frame me is just pure bs-
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uctriton00 Mafia Scum
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Just so I don't get lost in your little side conversation here but where was this mentioned that someone is a universal backup?