Open 550: Duck, Duck, Goose!
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Dr Pants Mafia Scum
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Hey everybody, I'm Dr Pants. Just read through the thread, lot of activity to get through so if someone could provide a short synopsis of the game or a brief list of reads that would be super helpful. Since somebody's already at L-1 I'm gonna hold off on voting atm. If there's no motion within the next couple of days I'll put my vote in, but since I don't have a good feel for how the game has been going I'd like a bit of time to sort everything out.
That being said I agree with a lynch on kush. The fact that he completely misunderstood the power that every town has (and its a pretty straightforward power at that) seems like a scum-slip, and his defense against pressure is that he's still "figuring stuff out". Play should never be defended by claims that can not be proved either way.
Glad to join you guys, this should be fun!-
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Dr Pants Mafia Scum
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Dr Pants Mafia Scum
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This is bullshit. Being super scummy in no way makes you town.In post 294, kushm4sta wrote:also you should realize that i'm WAY TOO SCUMMY TO BE SCUM. Liek i'm so scummy that I do a 360 and I'm back to being townie again. And if you look at it that way, im the towniest guy in the game.
This is also bullshit. Why would you be so upset when kush is at L-1 with someone claiming intent? Do you expect to enjoy the company of every person you play the game with? Do you abandon games when things don't go your way?In post 295, Aegor wrote: Maxous, maybe you do not understand the nature of my push, so let me make the nature of my push against kush transparently clear:
Kush dies today, or I replace out. Let me know which one is preferable and I will be happy to take action accordingly.-
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Dr Pants Mafia Scum
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Also what. It's also definitely bad for town to crybaby their way into getting what they want, cause it usually means they don't know what they're doing. Also the idea that Aegor is town because he doesn't like to play dirty, yet is playing dirty, is just frankly bizarre.In post 299, kushm4sta wrote:I think aegor is actually really town for that last quote.
How he says "either kush is out or I am." I don't see scum taking a stance like that. He is basically threatening leaving the game, forcing a replacement or modkill. It's generally considered bad form for scum to use this kind of stuff to help themselves. Aegor doesn't seem like he likes to play dirty.-
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Dr Pants Mafia Scum
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I'd put this down as highly unlikely. I think if it was planned distancing, it would come off as more strategic (ie calm) and less rage induced. Hell, if Aegor really wanted to bus Kush he should have just stayed quiet, seeing as how Kush was at L-1 with someone claiming intent.In post 316, Paschendale wrote: @Everyone else: Do you think Aegor is just trying to distance himself from Kush? Could they be buddies? Is this a day 1 bus?-
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Dr Pants Mafia Scum
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That's a strange thing to say.....In post 323, MonkeyMan wrote: Also, lynching me is fine if it can get more interest into the game and the deadline is closely approaching.
I do agree with your thoughts on Aegor though, its always stupid when someone rage quits.-
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Dr Pants Mafia Scum
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I can understand your position Max, but all I can really say is that I was looking for a way to interject into the game, so I took the easiest route I saw. Maybe not the classiest thing to do, but I figured that if I started participating immediately rather than actively lurking I'd get the feel for the game quicker.-
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Dr Pants Mafia Scum
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This is all getting kind of confusing. The bickering between Kush and Bubba seems to be chest puffing more than scum hunting. The fact that Aegor quit is obnoxious, but it doesn't really get us anywhere. I would really appreciate it if either Dessew or Paschendale could give me a list of current reads, I'd ask Maxous as well but he just listed them anyways. I'm having a lot of trouble finding sorting out whether I'm reading someone as scum or if I just don't like how they play.-
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Dr Pants Mafia Scum
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I'm not sure if its general play, but I agree that the thread is getting clogged with a lot of useless raging/trolling. I would love to see Kush go because it seems like hes the catalyst of it, but I know that would be a policy lynch so I'm hesitant to jump the gun on that.In post 347, MonkeyMan wrote:I feel like the general play in this game is to piss people off. It seems to be working too.
Not_Mafia's posts are decreasing in content as the game gets further and further along.
I am not sure this deadline extension is a good thing. There seems to be a bunch of apathy already and a lynch is really something that we need. It is going to pick up the game no matter what. It will also give us something to look over and analyze. My offer still stands.
Also you should never volunteer to get lynched. It makes absolutely no sense, if you have a scum read then vote that person out. Volunteering to get lynched is either a risky gambit if you are scum (implying that we wouldn't lynch you, but read you as town since you were ok with it) or just a dumb move by town. If you are town, then you are guaranteed town, and you know that about no one else. So why would you make that offer?-
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Dr Pants Mafia Scum
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Dr Pants Mafia Scum
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We have a few days, and 2 people (3 including me) who just replaced in/are about to replace in. We have until April 4, that's almost a week. There's a lot less pressure than you think, and its better that we don't force a vote and get screwed over for it.
Also saying that scum would jump at the chance is useless, if you have invited the entire town to vote you. I agree with Not Mafia on this.-
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Dr Pants Mafia Scum
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@Luka: I'm gonna take a quick stab at this:
Post #366
You're putting up quite a case against NS, and some of the points you make have some merit. NS doesn't post often, and hasn't added much real information to the thread. That being said, I think your motivation as a whole is a lot like most people's motivation against Kush: you dislike the way he plays. You try to point out scum motivations behind his moves, but personally I think that your argument is a stretch. Not to say that NS comes off as town, but a lynch on NS would be a policy lynch at this point.-
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Dr Pants Mafia Scum
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The issue for me this game is that there are multiple people who play in a way that irritates me. Specifically Kush, but also Bubba and NS. However, simply the fact that I don't like how they play does not make them scum, and it would be a bad move to only target people who I dislike. I personally think your stance on NS is too strong, yes he has some scummy attributes, but nothing to the level of "immensely scum" that you seem to feel.
I like to base my lynches off of as much information as I can get. If we had to lynch tomorrow I would want Kush gone, but since we have almost a week I want to take my time and see if I can't piece together something better.-
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Dr Pants Mafia Scum
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This. Ever since Aegor quit Kush has said very little in the thread, which is odd given the volume of posts he had before.In post 387, Paschendale wrote: @Kush: It doesn't matter what I ask you because you're active lurking like it's your job. But you keep paying attention, but not contributing anything.-
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Dr Pants Mafia Scum
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Let's be honest here, NS is not the only person who doesn't like your play right now.In post 393, Luca Blight wrote: I suspect the real reason you don't like how I play is because I am the first person this game to call you up on your scummy posting.-
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Dr Pants Mafia Scum
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Ok, here is very clearly and specifically what is wrong with your method:
1) You are unwilling to compromise your position. Even if you are sure you are right, you have to take into account that others in town have valid opinions as well, and its much easier to come to a solution if you listen rather than cramming your agenda down everyone's throat.
2) Aggressive questioning works. But you have spent a LOT more time in debate with everybody EXCEPT your target. You are asking us all to agree with you instead of directing your focus onto NS. The only information that can come from this is about you, not NS.
There is my problem with the way you play, and my answer to the question.-
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Dr Pants Mafia Scum
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After looking at Marquis ISO I agree with you. The hyper aggressive play from Luca does seem to run counter to how Marquis was playing, so that could be an over compensation. He does seem to think his argument holds weight, so I don't think its forced, but given Marquis's posts I think Luca comes in as a scum read.-
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Dr Pants Mafia Scum
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Dr Pants Mafia Scum
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Mostly I was trying to get inside of Luka's head, because while I agreed with him on somethings I found his argument as a whole to be a bit of a stretch, and I was wondering if he had any better reasoning to give.In post 414, Maxous wrote:
what's the point of this exactly? have you given a read on NS.In post 374, Dr Pants wrote:@Luka: I'm gonna take a quick stab at this:
Post #366
You're putting up quite a case against NS, and some of the points you make have some merit. NS doesn't post often, and hasn't added much real information to the thread. That being said, I think your motivation as a whole is a lot like most people's motivation against Kush: you dislike the way he plays. You try to point out scum motivations behind his moves, but personally I think that your argument is a stretch. Not to say that NS comes off as town, but a lynch on NS would be a policy lynch at this point.
NS is in a weird place for me. Typically I really dislike play that borderlines on lurking since it keeps information from town, and that's my biggest concern with NS. However, he hasn't said or done anything that comes out as specifically scummy. I would like for him to post more, but my read on him now is null.
Kush was consistently involved (as a troll I will admit) for most of day 1. The fact that he has suddenly vanished from the thread is a departure from that, and any time a player has a sudden shift in their tone or playstyle (especially considering that Kush is at L-1) I find it suspicious.In post 416, Maxous wrote:
...why?In post 406, Dr Pants wrote:I do agree with Mist, mostly because Kush completely stopped posting and suddenly all of the pressure is elsewhere. I think that is somewhat suspicious.-
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Dr Pants Mafia Scum
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VOTE: Kush
I held off on voting cause I actually though Kush was already at L-1 and I didn't want to hammer with 3 days left. But since Kush is at L-2, I don't mind putting him at L-1 at all.
The fact that 2 people have already claimed they would be ok with being "martyrs" doesn't seem right. If you are town, then don't offer to be voted out. Its just stupid play.-
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Dr Pants Mafia Scum
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Dr Pants Mafia Scum
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@Max thanks for the clarification.
That's terrible logic. Are you saying that trying to figure out the motivation behind a kill is scummy? I don't like this at all.In post 452, MonkeyMan wrote:VOTE: Maxous
I was once told that anyone who comments on the kill saying it was surprising or unexpected is scum. Why did you feel it necessary to comment on the kill?
I also REALLY dislike that Luka jumped on board immediately as well. I didn't like his thought process day 1, and this certainly looks scummy to me.
VOTE: Luka-
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Dr Pants Mafia Scum
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Perhaps you were right about Kush, but that doesn't mean you have good arguments. I think your day one arguments about NS were a stretch. Considering this, and seeing as how you were voting NS right away day 2, I think its really suspicious that you jumped on a new wagon so quickly. And your reasoning is this:In post 459, Luca Blight wrote: So jumping on what I perceive to be a valid wagon makes me scum now? What a bullshit argument. If I was scum I would have been more hesitant of jumping on a wagon immediately, because I would have been more concerned with how it would look. I have been transparent as f*ck this game, I was the only one who actually engaged his brain before jumping on the Kush bandwagon as he was clearly Town despite his trolling, but you disregard all of that because you don't like my 'thought process' which is clearly motivated to find scum unlike yours which is passive and pretty much useless to the Town.
Also, Maxous was not 'trying to figure out motivation behind the kill' with that post, he just made a useless remark about how he was 'surprised' at the kill, as if we are supposed to read that as a townslip or something.
It doesn't wash.
Just my opinion, but I think if scum had planned to set up a link to MM there would be a better argument for it. Isn't it interesting too that Maxous makes his observation, and then the very first person to call him out as scum is MM? Easily could be a case of OMGUS, but its also interesting how quickly people jumped on that one comment.In post 453, Luca Blight wrote:I find Maxous' reaction fake and his comment linking MM to Mist strange to say the least, it seems like something scum could have planned during the night to set the wheels in motion for another mis-lynch.
In short, you are either scum or you have massive tunnel vision.-
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Dr Pants Mafia Scum
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Also Luka, if you think scum team has both NS and Maxous, explain this.
Why would NS try to bus Maxous at the very beginning of day 2?In post 456, Nobody Special wrote:I'll just say that in my experience, someone commenting on the nightkill is, more often than not, mafia.-
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Dr Pants Mafia Scum
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Did you miss the point entirely? Dude you went after NS hard day 1. Really hard, like we get that you think hes scum. So cool, you start day 2 by voting for him, maybe I disagree with it but you don't come off as scum for that. But instead of pushing NS you changed your mind really quickly. Like the instance that someone said "oh lookie here I think this was a scum slip". Okay buddy so there's your plenty of evidence?In post 473, Luca Blight wrote:Dr Pants,
1) You contradict yourself by saying I am tunneling NS, then slating me for switching my vote to Maxous
2) You keep saying my arguments are a stretch, even though I have provided plenty of evidence for all of them. You, however, have not provided any argument all game, other than to continually rubbish my arguments
Answer me this: If you really think that both NS and Max are scum why would NS side against Maxous?
In short I just don't understand how you can make the arguments you are making as town. Because all of your current targets are easy targets: NS for the quickhammer, Maxous for asking about NK, Not Mafia for playing too cautiously. I'm not saying I have all of them down as super town reads, but to me it looks like you are trying to get easy kills, and that is scummy.-
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Dr Pants Mafia Scum
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Let's examine who is using common sense:In post 475, Luca Blight wrote:Why wouldn't NS side against Maxous? Since when did scum not bus? It's a very common occurrence, and he was hardly pushing his lynch either was he, his post was little more than a prod dodge, and it would have looked even more dodgy if he didn't mention Maxous seeing as he was the hot topic at the time of his posting.
You say NS is an easy target after the quickhammer, when I clearly targeted him way before that when he wasn't an easy target, at a time when he hadn't received a single vote and no-one wanted to hear an argument against him, so stop making stuff up. Not_Mafia is also not an 'easy target' as everyone seems to inexplicably read him as town (when I'm 99.9% sure he is scum). I could just as easily say you are jumping on the easy target in voting for me after I switched wagons.
Try using some common sense before wasting my time with your nonsense.
You are saying that as a scum team, Maxous and NS first planned to set up MM.
Then, two posts after doing so, they changed their mind and now its bus time. Just no.In post 453, Luca Blight wrote:I find Maxous' reaction fake and his comment linking MM to Mist strange to say the least, it seems like something scum could have planned during the night to set the wheels in motion for another mis-lynch.
Also you are not an "easy" target. You have high activity in the game, you are aggressive, and most people think you are town. You said day 1 thatthen abandoned your pressure on NS only to jump onto someone who had a wagon starting for them. That's going after easy targets.
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In post 482, Luca Blight wrote: Let's lynch him today, if he flips town I will self-vote tomorrow, that's how sure I am he is scum.
BS. If you lynch him and he flips town you'll move on to another crazy theory, not blindly give yourself up. And I think I've been pretty clear about this: town should NEVER offer themselves up for a vote.-
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Dr Pants Mafia Scum
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The timing and reasons only matter if you flip town. And I don't think you will.
Luca, understand this: aggressive play is only town friendly if you focus correctly. And its possible to read someone as town or scum because their focus is wrong. You claim to be reading 3 people as scum, yet you are interacting with them the least out of anybody in town. It seems like you are more focused on convincing town then questioning your reads. That kind of misdirected focus is scummy, because you are more focused on your own plan and agenda than working with the rest us.-
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Dr Pants Mafia Scum
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I agree with Maxous on this, it doesn't look like a scum slip to me.
I am still reading Luka as scum, but it isn't a bad idea to spread the pressure around a bit, the more information we get the better.
Maxous, who are your current scum reads? You haven't been in the thread for a couple days, do you see anything that the rest of us might have missed?-
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Dr Pants Mafia Scum
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Reading you as scum isn't a case of my own? Yeah my case may be about the way you are constructing and presenting your "arguments", but its still a case.In post 545, Luca Blight wrote: If you don't like my scumhunting how about you do some yourself? All you and Dr Pants have done since I joined this game is slate my arguments without putting forth any cases of your own.-
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Dr Pants Mafia Scum
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Isn't this exactly why you were targeting Maxous earlier today? So when someone else makes a comment speculating on scum motivation they are scum, but when you do it its an "observational comment".In post 542, Luca Blight wrote:What are you on about? Why would I need provoking to make an observational comment such as that? And what would be the scum-motivation behind that comment?
The fact I make comments without provocation (unlike you, who only posts in defence) points to me being Town as opposed to scum.-
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Dr Pants Mafia Scum
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Your reads seem very vanilla. Also, I'm curious as to why you see NS as scum for low post count when he has more posts than everybody except Not Mafia, Luca, and Monkey Man. Also you're claiming Bubba is town because you like his "style"? I don't know what that means.
Why is lack of contribution a problem for NS but not for Bubba?-
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Dr Pants Mafia Scum
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Let's be clear here, my problem with Reinoe's argument was that it didn't seem like he was contributing anything new. I also dislike how defensive he's been right out of the gate.
Since he took over for someone who had a total of two posts I'll give him a bit of slack but I don't like what I'm seeing initially.-
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Dr Pants Mafia Scum
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I dunno, I think upset/butthurt play can come from both town and scum so I don't really see that as a tell.In post 603, Maxous wrote: @drpants: how about i re-phrase my reason to "from what i have seen of luca's play i don't feel like he would be good enough to fake his behaviour as scum, he is prolly just town"
This has me interested though:In post 595, Not_Mafia wrote:I'm increasingly thinking MM/Bubba/Reinoe soooo wagon on one or all of those please
So both you and NM think that their are no scum on the Luca wagon, and that Luca is town? Explain this to me a bit, it seems a little counter intuitive.In post 596, Maxous wrote:i'm leaning monkeyman not being scum currently but the other 2 prolly are yes.-
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Dr Pants Mafia Scum
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Fyi, a players activity/lack of in any games that are currently on going should not be talked about or used as evidence. Different games often require different play, which makes that accusation a cheap shot.In post 649, Luca Blight wrote:I think we have just established it is you who is lying, not me.
In what way is NS not lurking? He has frequently been posting elsewhere while not posting in this game, and whenever he does post it is pure irrelevant fluff, or a wagon jump without explanation.
Now game things.
Here's what's getting my attention right now:
Reinoe's arrival seems oddly convenient. We had basically reached a stand still as a town, and a couple people who were not engaged when luca was under fire went after Reinoe right out of the gate. I will admit that if Reinoe had been in the game longer I would find some of the things he said suspicious, but at the same time the fact that Freak's absence went unnoticed makes me think that the attention on Reinoe right now is either fabricated or novelty.
Its interesting that NM and Maxous read the same scum team, which included no one on the Luca wagon, while reading Luka as town. If Luka gets lynched and flips scum then I'll be reading NM and Maxous hard for this.-
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Since you're reading Luca as scum, does this mean you think Pasche is hard bussing? Anything about Pasche's game in particular that makes you think this, or is it just a gut feeling?In post 659, Nobody Special wrote:Fairly confident that Luca and Pasch are of the same alignment.-
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Dr Pants Mafia Scum
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I could be looking too into this, but it seemed to me like NM and Maxous were very eager to jump on Reinoe. Not suspicious in its own right, but the fact that they both claimed to think Luca is scum and present identical scum teams that contain no one on the Luca train is. It means that if Luca flips scum, then they can point to their scum claims because they weren't on the wagon. If they actually think Luca is town then their scum team makes no sense because then the scum team would be deliberately avoiding a mislynch.In post 678, Dessew wrote:
And asking for a clarification: what do you want to say with your fourth paragraph?In post 658, Dr Pants wrote: Its interesting that NM and Maxous read the same scum team, which included no one on the Luca wagon, while reading Luka as town. If Luka gets lynched and flips scum then I'll be reading NM and Maxous hard for this.-
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Dr Pants Mafia Scum
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Then level with us. What do you think is going on? And who is a good lynch?In post 687, Maxous wrote:
he won't.In post 658, Dr Pants wrote:If Luka gets lynched and flips scum
Luca Blight (4): Dr Pants, Paschendale, Nobody Special, Dessew
fist 2 are obv-town, guess ns could be scum there, dessew is a town-read from very early but i haven't paid much attention to lately. i should prob re-check-
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Dr Pants Mafia Scum
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eep my mistake i replied before reading further and seeing the answer to this, sorry.In post 696, Dr Pants wrote:
Then level with us. What do you think is going on? And who is a good lynch?In post 687, Maxous wrote:
he won't.In post 658, Dr Pants wrote:If Luka gets lynched and flips scum
Luca Blight (4): Dr Pants, Paschendale, Nobody Special, Dessew
fist 2 are obv-town, guess ns could be scum there, dessew is a town-read from very early but i haven't paid much attention to lately. i should prob re-check-
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Dr Pants Mafia Scum
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Day 1 that game I tunneled two people hard and basically got lucky while pushing a policy lynch. I'm trying to play more self aware this game.In post 695, reinoe wrote:Dr. Pants: I reviewed your OOZES AND SLIMES NEWBIE 1481.
You made a mention of Bulbazak being dangerous because of his competence and by luck he turned out to be scum vs shinobi being bad town. There are similarities between kush' erratic play and shinobi's erratic play. How do you determine between erratic town vs flailing scum? Do you think there is scum flying under the radar this game?
As far as "scum flying under the radar", if you just mean based on activity then its possible, but the people who are lurking (Bubba mostly) are drawing attention for it so its not really "under the radar".-
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Lets do a quick VCA:In post 739, Paschendale wrote: From the Luca wagon, NS looks by far the most shady. It is, however, entirely possibly that there were no scum on the wagon. The lack of any significant counterwagon makes this seem unlikely, though. There was probably at least one scum on the Luca wagon, and NS is the most likely candidate.
kushm4sta (7): Freak, Paschendale, bubbajack8, Not_Mafia, Mist7676, Dr Pants, Nobody Special
Freak (2): Maxous, MonkeyMan
MonkeyMan (1): Dessew
Nobody Special (1): Luca Blight
Not Voting: kushm4sta
Luca Blight (6):Dr Pants, Paschendale, Nobody Special, Dessew, MonkeyMan, Not_Mafia
reinoe (1): Maxous
Not_Mafia (1): reinoe
MonkeyMan (1): Luca Blight
Nobody Special (1): bubbajack8
People on both wagons: Me, Paschendale, NS, Not_Mafia
People on one wagon: Freak/Reinoe, Bubbajack, MonkeyMan, Dessew
People who avoided both wagons: Maxous
If no scum were on Luca then Maxous, Reinoe, and Bubba are all scum. I just don't see it, Maxous has been laying pretty hard into Reinoe.
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Speaking of Reinoe:
Talk to me about this. I can understand why you would change your stance on Maxous given that he's pressuring you, though your reaction seems mostly like OMGUS.In post 566, reinoe wrote: maxous
probably town.
post 416 is the only thing that really stood out to me where he criticizes mist7676. From a town perspective if someone wants to wait for a hammer then they should wait for a hammer.
I also don't like how he's trying to speculate on the motivations for the kill.
luca blight
ugh. scum as fuck
slip sliding all over the place. I'm going to try and give him the benefit of the doubt as just frustrated town though because I've seen townies self-destruct under pressure.
But, if Luca was "scum as fuck" why did you never put a vote on him?-
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Dr Pants Mafia Scum
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Dr Pants Mafia Scum
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As I said before, I pushed a policy lynch that game and got lucky. It may not be too harmful to think that way day 1, but later in the game getting rid of people because they would be dangerous as scum is stupid. Game skill is not alignment indicative.In post 752, reinoe wrote:Whom do you think is the most dangerous player this game if they're scum? I say this because it seems likely that scum players are not going to have many, if any, traditional "scum slips".-
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Dr Pants Mafia Scum
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Dr Pants Mafia Scum
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NS isn't impossible to read. Hes just more subtle than most. I can talk all over about why NS and NM shouldn't have voted for luca, but I was pushing for luca too so I can hardly blame them.In post 765, reinoe wrote: Now that Luca has flipped town what are your thoughts on NS and NM's timing and reasons for voting Luca?
Personally I find NS impossible to read.
However, I'm not liking what I'm getting from Paschendale right now. His content with Luca at the end of yesterday looks like taunting right now, and his flip flop on NS is just plain bad.
Overall I'm not liking what I see from MM, NM, and Pasche right now.-
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Dr Pants Mafia Scum
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Personally I think its a bad way to think about a lynch. I would agree with what N_M posted though, what would mess me up the most would be if my town reads ended up being scum. My biggest town reads right now are you and Dessew. But like I said, its a bad way to determine a lynch because its basically reverse policy lynching.In post 771, Maxous wrote: @dr.pants: why did you completely blow off the question is #757...?-
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Dr Pants Mafia Scum
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Tomorrow IRL or in game? Cause if you've got a good theory I'd like to hear it today.In post 775, Dessew wrote:Well, this making a case turned out to be much less epic than I predicted. I'll tell who's scum tomorrow.-
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Dr Pants Mafia Scum
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So which is it?In post 779, Paschendale wrote:
I'm looking back on Bubba's day 1 and I'm not sure I see it.
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Bubba definitely merits some suspicion.-
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Dr Pants Mafia Scum
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Dr Pants Mafia Scum
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Its not the votes. Its that through posts 781-784, four different people each come to the conclusion that bubba is either scum or fishy. Your argument and Max's at least make sense in context, but the fact that NM jumped on board and then Reinoe recommends "everyone who is town" (:facepalm:) to look at his newly found discovery looks pretty shady.
I don't think I have ever seen 4 town players all come to the same consensus about someone who isnt conf-scum within 4 posts of each other.-
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Dr Pants Mafia Scum
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