Open 557: Deck of Stacks [Game Over]

[zMuffinMan]

Hello

I am town

[zMuffinMan]

why is there a wagon on me?

[zMuffinMan]

Unvote

i'll be back in a few hours, then you guys get to spend some quality time with me while i read this game

[zMuffinMan]

i think PA is scum

possibly also seeempty. i am not sure if science has advanced to the point we have robots capable of playing mafia, but if we do, i could swear seempty is one of them

[zMuffinMan]

Your predecessor played a significant role in the d1 no lynch

ok. i'm at the end of D1 now and i'm prettttttty sure you guys were two votes short of a lynch occurring, so pinning the blame on my slot is fairly disingenuous. i mean, apart from the fact it was the collective fault of all of you for letting the game drag out so close to the deadline in such a way that there was a deadline scramble (and it looks like you guys have done it again today), i'm not entirely sure what you think the scum motivation for that is? like, he unvoted a tracker claim (which, hey, ended up forcing scum to kill it rather than giving it to them for free). i guess you could say it was derpy of him to not vote the other viable wagon, but *shrug* unless you're suggesting i'm scum with katengecchi, it's pretty obvious there's no scum motivation for him doing what he did

hasn't put in a modicum of effort in this game despite a recent town history of being perfectly capable of doing so

maybe. though given his mass replacing out, i'd say it's fair obvious some outside circumstances of sorts were affecting his play

what's your read on PA? who else do you think is scum?

[zMuffinMan]

also not really seeing where the katengecchi scum reads are coming from. a lot of the stances he was taking D1 mirrored my own as i was reading through it. also thought their reactions to different people (like PA and seeempty) looked pretty town

[zMuffinMan]

town

i'm guessing you disagree

[zMuffinMan]

(also don't really think i've posted enough that anyone would think i'm "very town" yet)

[zMuffinMan]

short answer: i don't see town in her posts. her posts D1 had this sort of coasty-go-with-the-flow feel about them where it didn't really feel like she was trying to find scum so much as just calling people scum and making the evidence fit the mold

long answer after i read D2 (prob won't be until around 6 hours from now). i might break down PA's ISO and explain it in depth, actually.

[zMuffinMan]

I don't see why that can't be the case

do you actually think that's the case?

can you do a summary/rehash of where you're at with reads / why? coz i'm looking over your D2 posts and it's not _really_ clear what your reasoning for your reads is. i think you had my slot as scum for... unvoting at the end of D1 and gut voting someone you're apparently scum reading (dunno if i'm missing something here)? i'm not entirely sure what your reasons for the katen read are. and i don't really know where you're currently at with other reads

At this point I'd vote Finglove if Muffin keeps being townish.

wait, what? you're not interested in the fact that i have you as scum?

[zMuffinMan]

eh while i think saying katen is town because tn was NKed is a shit reason to think katen is town, i think katen is more than likely town via play

remind me why you think katen is scum

[zMuffinMan]

anyway, re: PA

i had a gut scum read on her starting with 75. 3 pages of stuff had happened at that point, there was a decent amount of stuff to comment on (like the tn-talah back-and-forth) but rather than doing anything like that, she comes in and asks a rather pointless question that doesn't have any other purpose than discrediting katen. further, i think this question is aimed at 73 and i don't really see how that was undermining pasch, so this looks like nothing more than a pot shot.

i didn't really like 124 at all. it was a wall of stuff that was designed to look like content but there was very little actual content in there. like outside of the town reads she gave on pim and seeempty (which, tbh, felt like kind of a cop-out), the massive wall of commentary in the middle of that post contains no real opinions and the questions she asks there aren't going to help discern someone's alignment in any way. the tone of this posts just reads as a going-through-the-motions commentary with no drive to find scum. there's a complete lack of stances and it's not a town post at all. i mean, granted, it's still fairly early in the game, but this is the kind of post i'd expect from scum looking to fake content rather than town thinking this sort of post is a worthwhile contribution.

i have mixed feelings on 126. these are the kind of questions i could potentially see coming from town-PA but they're also just really easy things to ask about so not really hard for scum to come up with

the reasoning in 138 for the whole talah stuff felt a lot like scum buddying. first, if talah got run up for similar play in another game, then katen's reaoning for suspecting talah was null at best <- it's something PA knows has been pushed by town players before, even if scum can latch onto it too. it's also a cheap way to get out of committing to an actual read on talah at this point, which probably wouldn't be that big a deal except that she's using katen's push on talah as a primary reason for scum reading katen. when katen points out that it's a pretty bad reason for a scum read in the next post, PA responds in 180 by shrugging it off and saying town should work with IC! (as though scum have any more reason to want to pick a fight with an IC). overall this whole push on katen felt really weak and, again, while it's early stages of the game, this whole thing just felt like scum seeing an easy target coming under pressure and latching onto it (which is kinda ironic given the stance on talah). rather than critically thinking about it, she just calls katen scum and makes the evidence fit the conclusion, even when it doesn't make a lot of sense.

the other issue i have with the katen read here is that she just coasts on it for the rest of the day and doesn't really do a whole lot of anything (i mean there's a reads lists in 287 kinda... if you squint really hard, i guess? outside of the mostly unexplained town reads and the scum read on katen, it's basically void of stances, just more commentary). like... even apart from the fact that it was a fairly meh reason for scum reading katen in the first place, the read felt static rather than taking in new information. that's not a town thought process.

mixed feelings re: 401. this and a couple other posts like it D2 (e.g. 497) i could potentially see coming from town-PA, i guess. it's a reach out to CTD about some past game, which is pretty cocky if scum? i dunno. it's the kind of thing i'm likely to do as scum but i'm not really sure whether PA is the kind of player to try and manipulate based on meta like that when she's scum.

i *think* the tn5421 in 407 was a compromise vote? or something? don't really know. given how her last mention of tn was that tn was unlikely scum with the only scum read she'd really given all game, this vote felt really out of place

D2 continues with more of the same pushing katen while not really doing a lot of anything else. this continues 'til 572 where she unvotes katen, followed by 599 where she explains she was apparently scum reading katen incorrectly because of mistaking who saki was (though there was never really any mention of saki meta in her push on katen so i'm thinking this was made up after the fact). i guess the backtracking on the katen read could maybe come from town-PA? maybe? but there's a severe lack of (god i hate this word and i hate myself even more for using it) "trajectory" on how / where / why that read changed from scum to town.

the vote on my slot could, i guess, make some sense based on previous stuff she'd said about my slot, but this felt like the same thing she did at the end of D1. at the point i replaced in, it looks like it was me or katen. if katen is actually town, i think this is just PA going all buddy-buddy on katen and latching onto another mislynch because it really didn't matter which lynch happened as long as it wasn't a scum lynch.

also not really sure why she thinks my entrance so far has looked town when i've explicitly called her scum and i haven't really produced all that much content yet. why is she not interested in that or the least bit curious about that? further, the alternative lynch she'd apparently be fine with today (finglove) is... not really mentioned at all in her ISO. like i get that she's not been very engaged in the game lately but there's zero progression on this read

[zMuffinMan]

~

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[zMuffinMan]

I will let you keep reading and find out Talah is scum for yourself

ok. so i'm caught up on the thread and i don't know why you think talah is scum. like disregarding the fact i think she looks far more likely to be town than scum, i cannot actually find where you've explained your talah read (like you gave a kinda weak reason when you voted her the second time, but i can't find anything else)

why do you think talah is scum? and what are your other reads atm?

[zMuffinMan]

If Katen is town, both potential lynches were town and there's definitely scum motivation in not participating in either so as to not get your hands dirty

yeah, that doesn't actually make any sense if you think about it logically but i don't really care to argue this point right now unless it's important

There's an existing wagon there that could be pushed to L-1 with your help and you both seem to be scum reading the slot

if PA wagon doesn't happen, i probably will join that wagon

If it's between Katen and PA, I'd still lynch the former

why do you think PA is town?

[zMuffinMan]

A VT claim doesn't accomplish anything other than to make her a more appealing target for a compromise lynch (which was what was being discussed) and I see strong town motivation in trying to speed up the decision making process

maybe, though depending on what the setup is, VT may be the only actual safe claim scum can actually do. as for speeding up the decision making process, i can kind of understand what you're getting at but to me it just looks like a move she'd do regardless of her alignment

(as a side point - somewhat theory-related - i don't think VT claims are as bad as you make them out to be. i've seen far too many games where someone has said, "scum are unlikely to claim VT in X situation" only for them to actually be scum. and if PA actually is scum here, this will just be another example of it)

[zMuffinMan]

i'll prob be around til deadline to move vote as necessary if PA doesn't happen

[zMuffinMan]

Shit arguments, unnecessary self-focus, not actually helping find scum at all. Katen has a very us vs them mindset, which makes sense for someone who knows who their allies and enemies are

i might go through their ISO and talk about the stuff i thought looked town in the next couple hours. tl;dr version though is i didn't get this feeling at all when i read their posts.

[zMuffinMan]

is it 8 alive right now?

[zMuffinMan]

ok so 5:3

meh. finglove was a meh shot. vig should stay hidden

i need to do some reading

[zMuffinMan]

i was thinking mass claim but 5:3, i'd rather vig stays hidden another day since they're basically an IC now

i'd be fine goon-cop/not-goon-cop and bodyguard/not-bodyguard mass claim but that's about it

[zMuffinMan]

I think I disagree with your semi-non-massclaim there zMuffin. What's your rationale?

mass claim isn't necessary. but if we are doing it, that is how it should be done

[zMuffinMan]

there's no good reason for vig to claim

let scum guess

[zMuffinMan]

Scum don't have to guess if we lynch wrong

er. yes they do. it's 5:3, even if we mislynch, the vig can still hit scum and make it 3:2 tomorrow

[zMuffinMan]

BC is mostly a lurker. He is hardly participating in this game at all. He's just drifting along all the time

i could see this being the case, mostly because i haven't seen him actually do much that's looked town and his initial posts after i replaced in were pretty awkward

though when i was catching up i remember thinking the vanity wagon on talah was kinda townish. maybe. gonna look back at it at some point in the next 24 hours

Am I fucking talking to myself here? We need ALL THE INFORMATION WE CAN GET TODAY OR WE LOSE

whether or not the vig claims is not important to the game state. vig claiming isn't going to change anything. i don't know why you're trying to force this

if you want to discuss who you wanted vig killed, then discuss who you want vig killed. the vig doesn't need to claim for this to happen.

634 is CrashTextDummy's post which isn't me.

he means 643 btw (where you suggested a talah lynch followed by a seeempty lynch)

[zMuffinMan]

if vig wants to claim, he can. honestly, if i thought it would make the least bit of difference to the game state, i'd agree with you that it's a good idea, but i don't think it will. there's a reason most ICs choose not to reveal until it's absolutely necessary

[zMuffinMan]

that's not actually a contradiction

[zMuffinMan]

also, really, wanting the vig to claim isn't scummy - i don't think it's necessary, but i can somewhat understand the arguments for it

[zMuffinMan]

everyone knows the scum team has a bulletproof. it's an open game

[zMuffinMan]

scum don't choose bulletproof

[zMuffinMan]

oh right

i was looking at the traitor being bulletproof as a given in the setup and didn't actually realise they could choose bulletproof on top of that

[zMuffinMan]

eh

ignoring my derp, still not seeing talah's comment as a slip. keyword seems to be "potential"

[zMuffinMan]

Also, I'm considering this as a cross bus.

maybe, though if beast is scum, i think cross bus is less likely than scum going after a mislynch

the tides were already turning against him with talah and seeempty voting him and me expressing suspicion of him on top of that and this could have just been a desperation attempt to get a mislynch

[zMuffinMan]

also pretty sure beast is scum outside this 1v1

him pushing the "slip" rather than straight up claiming goon cop at the start of today isn't town play

[zMuffinMan]

Ultimately what I'm tending is that zMuffin told beast to re-push me with something so that he can reaffirm his liking of the talah push which was "maybe-town".

lol. this is so wrong it's not funny

first, i don't coach like that as scum, ever. i actually actively discourage people planning out their pushes as scum because it's more likely to come off as forced and unnatural. if anything, i think if i were scum with beast i would have explicitly told him not to do what he's doing today because it seems unnecessarily stupid to force something like this

and second, i said i thought the vanity wagon he started on you looked kinda townish, not that his push on you was maybe town (i actually don't even remember his reasons for pushing you, i asked him about it at the end of yesterday but the day ended before he gave an answer iirc). if katen is town, he had every opportunity to jump on either my wagon or katen's wagon and didn't. i suppose the possibility exists he might have been trying to look better from our flips, in a "ah ha! i told you so!" fashion (which i'm now thinking is likely the case) but *shrug* it's not something i see scum do all that often

i know this doesn't really matter because you're unlikely to return to the game, but whatevs

Hasn't liked any of my attacks on Talah since they came into the game

yeah, no shit, sherlock. you never actually explained it.

at the end of yesterday, i specifically asked you what your attack on talah actually was because i couldn't see reasons for it that made any sense and i thought she looked town. you never gave an answer.

[zMuffinMan]

Talah, could you please state why you are dropping out? This is an incredibly odd course of events.

afaict talah's replace out was a site-wide thing

[zMuffinMan]

i think if you were town, you'd spend less time ateing and more time explaining why it took you so long to claim the goon cop result, why you pushed the "slip" if you knew talah was a goon, etc etc

also you didn't even comment on talah in your first posts today

[zMuffinMan]

I also didn't crumb my role anywhere. Not everyone plays the roles the same way. I tried to use my vig in FE: Awakening as an inspect on my neighborhood partner. Everyone thought I was an idiot for it but it seemed like a good idea to me. I have weird ideas and they don't always work out.

that's different, though. i'm not criticising you for the use of the role, i'm saying your play today prior to claiming makes no sense

I think everyone should make a statement along the lines of "If I were the vig, I'd shoot [...]" and for the actual vig to follow through with that

i need to go back and look at interactions. i thought seeempty could be scum independent of beast but i'm not really sure seeempty's stance and push on beast today makes much sense as scum-scum interaction

[zMuffinMan]

skimming over those votecounts

note to self (and/or living players tomorrow): look back over build-up to tn/katen wagons D1 after flips today/tonight

[zMuffinMan]

I'm trying to figure out who beast's partners are if he's scum and I can't really come up with anything, it feels like every single person is doubting his claim - if this was some sort of scum play, I find it hard to believe he'd do this without any backup at all

i could see beast being thrown under the bus here

it'd be fucking hilarious if the scum team is like beast-talah-seeempty or something

[zMuffinMan]

urge to hammer rising

[zMuffinMan]

ctd

what did you want to talk about pre-hammer? just the "who would you vig?" thing or was there something else you wanted to talk about?

[zMuffinMan]

remind me who you think is scum, justin

[zMuffinMan]

prod dodge

[zMuffinMan]

I don't think muffin has given a vig target. Other than that, I'm ready for the day to end

i haven't had time for mafia these past few days and i likely won't have much time before either sunday/monday, so i haven't done any of the reading i wanted to do

if you want a target now, seeempty. purely based on my individual read on seeempty, haven't actually gone back and looked over interactions yet

though, on that note, why did you change your mind on seeempty?

[zMuffinMan]

ill prob be around later tonight if the game is still open to do reading

[zMuffinMan]

SeeEmpty is a bad fit as a beastcharizard buddy. His vote on him today (over say Katen, who was his top suspect all game long) makes little sense if they are scum together. I also don't think that they've historically played like scum buddies.

i'm going over seeempty/beastcharizard now and i don't get how you came to this conclusion

there's been what looks like light distancing for most of the game, but prior to today seeempty never really showed much enthusiasm in going after beastcharizard, which makes the lack of trajectory on the vote today feel all the more out of place. also not really seeing what you're getting at with him voting beastcharizard over katen given there was no katen wagon?

[zMuffinMan]

there's also a huge gap in the interactions between the two that is kinda weird. after the first 10 pages in which they interacted a fair bit, there were very minor mentions of each other but no serious questioning or probing for information etc etc for the rest of D1

[zMuffinMan]

i'll prob hammer later today if someone hasn't already

[zMuffinMan]

Vote: beastcharizard

[zMuffinMan]

basically what i'm assuming

[zMuffinMan]

first one is more likely imo

[zMuffinMan]

katen's beast stuff is almost too blatant i think

[zMuffinMan]

i haven't actually been paying attention to which individual head is posting what so i don't really know what that means, but i've been thinking they're town mainly because i can't actually see scum motivation in their approach to the game (the beast stuff today is just yet another example; beast was clearly a sinking ship, it's almost downright stupid to take the stances they've taken today as scum with beast)

[zMuffinMan]

it's probably seeempty

might do some reading anyway just because

[zMuffinMan]

because i think it's probably seeempty

[zMuffinMan]

I think the last scum is Muffin.

nope

[zMuffinMan]

Post #776, #778 and #780 also vaguely hinted that he knows the Traitor is not being recruited (hence retaining the BP).

lol.

that was literally just me not reading setup and derping.

plus even if i were scum, why would i "vaguely hint" that i know about that?

[zMuffinMan]

anyway i have time this afternoon to do reading. be back in a couple hours

[zMuffinMan]

ok

it pretty much has to be seeempty. nobody else really makes sense as scum here

the stuff yesterday between beast and talah-slot was very unlikely to be bussing given beast's flip and the way yesterday played out (agree with ctd the far more likely option is that beast was trying to soak a vig bullet after a talah mislynch)

and justin's play towards the end of D1 makes it unlikely he's scum with katen slot - at any point at the end of D1 he could have reasonably switched to tn with the excuse of avoiding a no lynch and nobody would have really thought much of it - instead he chose to stick to katen who could very likely have been lynched if things had played out slightly differently.

also just overall both talah slot and katen slot have looked far more town than seeempty

[zMuffinMan]

936 is also a somewhat standard scum play

"oh, hey, i think muffin is scum but i better leave myself an out for when he flips town"

Vote: SeeEmpty

[zMuffinMan]

I think his level of engagement has been pretty lackluster across all players occupying the slot

*shrug* i replaced in with 48 hours before the end of D2, and i have about the same amount of posts as any of the players who've been in the game since the very beginning. i can't really say much about the dudes i replaced, but i'm 93% certain they were town (with a margin of error of +/-7%)

i had some RL issues that prevented me from being active last week (which, ironically, was a contributing factor in my mislynch in a just-finished mini) but i don't think i've been disengaged at all

Most damning though is beastcharizards treatment of the slot on D1, voting him early in the day, maintaining a scum read but being unwilling to join the wagon when it actually had momentum, even going so far as proposing a SeeEmpty wagon instead on whom he had little to say previously. And then when Muffin replaced into the game, he immediately complimented him for "very town" play, like he was itching to town read the slot.

meh, i can't really control how scum interacts with me

it's obvious he was staying clear of the wagon on me so that he could say something like, "oh hey, you guys are fucking dumb, shoulda lynched talah!" or something if my slot did actually get lynched. scum were in a comfortable position at the point of my replace in. they could have stayed clear of both the katen and BE wagons and watched town implode on itself (and two of them did choose to do that)

as for beast calling me town, meh. can't really say anything about that. he was obviously buddying me. from a theory point of view, that's good traitor play i suppose, since it implicates me and there's not much i can do about it. same with him avoiding my wagon, i guess (though i'd argue it'd be extremely stupid for scum to ever make their interactions with a buddy that obvious, so really, it should be rather obvious what was going on)

[zMuffinMan]

also

We are assuming that the scum mistook Despo for the vig, right? That they had role copped neither myself nor Despo, distrusted their traitor's read on me and thought Despo was trying to throw them off his trail with his twilight posting? I'd like some feedback on this because it's kind of a mystifying to me that they didn't put two and two together.

now that i think about it, that's pretty strong evidence that i'm town

unless you think i'm so dumb and blind that i missed the obvious implication of the conversation i had with desp at the end of yesterday (i.e. both he and i practically claimed not vig when we had the same thoughts about beastcharizard's post-hammer comment implying he was a rolecop)

scum either didn't really read the conversation we had or didn't realise the implications of it

[zMuffinMan]

also, just throwing it out there, outside of maybe nacho, desp is probably the player with the most experience playing with/against me as town/scum. the fact that he wasn't even wary of me here is also pretty strong evidence i'm town

i'm pretty sure a seeempty lynch ends the game and i would rather not drag this out another day

[zMuffinMan]

The way I see it is that you somehow know there is a BP in the scum team when that is not certainly the case

i get that you have to twist every little thing to make it look like i'm scum but you're not even really thinking critically about the stuff you're saying

either i knew the setup, or i didn't. if i knew the setup, why would i make the clearly incorrect statement that scum don't choose BP? if your answer is "because scum chose BP" then clearly i am wrong about the setup. if your answer is "because scum didn't choose BP" then... clearly i am wrong about the setup.

That, or he is trying to give a hint to you that he's your traitor buddy

again, i get that you have to twist every little thing, but in what way could that even be considered a hint? lots of people called me town after my entrance into the game

(ignoring the fact that a majority of players i know consider it standard traitor play to bus your team as a means of hinting to them that you know who they are)

[zMuffinMan]

All he is doing now is throwing WIFOM left and right and try to call himself town using those WIFOM

also if this is referring to stuff i said about desp, then you clearly don't know what WIFOM means

there is no WIFOM in those statements, merely assumptions you'd have to make in order to think i'm scum

[zMuffinMan]

.... neither of those statements are wifom and both are true

[zMuffinMan]

those are factual premises

there is no wifom

[zMuffinMan]

but in a way that it also hints that:

You know your team has a traitor: "everyone knows the scum team has a bulletproof" and "i was looking at the traitor being bulletproof". It makes sense as now we know the scum team didn't recruit the traitor.

... you're kidding, right?

ok

let's say my aim was to hint at that. why?

First off, the extra explanation from beast is unnecessary and feels more like a cover up of him towncrediting you than anything.

....... you do realise i commented on his read and the "extra explanation" was from me prompting it, right?

Also, he strong town read your play based on your 2 unexplained scum read and one town read is not making any sense.

yes, that is how scum buddy town, that is not how a traitor hints to their scum team

[zMuffinMan]

rofl

you're stretching so hard

[zMuffinMan]

@CTD,

i mistook something about the setup. sue me. if you think that has any bearing on my engagement in the game, then wow. like... wow. wow is all i have to say about that if you're not trolling with that entire paragraph. i checked the setup. i overlooked an aspect of it. that's literally all there is to it. seeempty _is_ twisting something that is actually nothing and the fact that you're even entertaining the idea that was actually a slip is lose-all-faith-in-humanity levels of derp. the fact that you agree with scum is hilarious.

what about my play looks like i "just want to make it into tomorrow"? i don't even think there's going to be a tomorrow if seeempty is lynched, but even if by some miracle he's actually town, what good would it do a hypothetical scum-me to play like this?

[zMuffinMan]

also looking over that interaction analysis, it reads like you've already decided i'm scum and you're trying to make the evidence fit the theory

you clearly have no idea how to read scum interactions

[zMuffinMan]

In contrast, he had SeeEmpty as a top town read for practically the whole game, didn't interact at all with him and went out of his way to defend him at a point where he was no where near under the threat of lynch (not that he ever really was until today), and that all looks like buddying a townie who wasn't really problematic in terms of reads

like, you acknowledge he gave seeempty a town read with little real interaction and was quick to diffuse any signs of trouble there............... but you think that's indicative of scum buddying town.

? ? ?

[zMuffinMan]

who do you think is scum if I'm town?

the phrasing of this question makes me all the more certain you're scum

i'm not second-guessing myself today

"What good would it do if scum survive another day?"

what good would it do? everyone thinks it's between me and you, if i were scum, what use would it be to survive today when i would clearly just be lynched tomorrow (if not vig killed tonight)

[zMuffinMan]

like you're planning your whole play around this game reaching a tomorrow, which shows you know i'm not scum

posts like 979 are preparation for a tomorrow that you really shouldn't think will be coming if you genuinely think i'm scum like all your posts suggest

(inb4 CTD comes in here and call that town-motivated)

[zMuffinMan]

Scum level confidence

yes, yes, it's funny how cheeky you think you can be

You, being the last scum, will definitely want to survive as long as possible, and get the possibility to manipulate the town to your win.

right. statements like this completely contradict the seeds you're sowing in 979

you sound so confident that i'm scum here, but you write things to undermine the players who are going to be around with you tomorrow, so that you can go back to them and say, "oh, hey, guess it's one of them because of all the scummy stuff they were doing yesterday!"

[zMuffinMan]

Post #979 is me trying to get the remaining town to make up their mind on their read.

. . . . .

The fact that he is actively posting in other games while ignoring this one concerns me about his absent today.

this is not you trying to get town to make up their mind, it's you laying the groundwork for future suspicion

[zMuffinMan]

singersigner's has yet to come up with her top 2 scum picks, which is also most concerning. The fact that there is no alternative scum pick to prepare for the possibility of a mislynch is worrisome.

words like "concerning" and "worrisome" are not something you say to someone you want to make up their mind, they're the words of someone again laying the groundwork for future suspicion

you're not playing like you think my lynch will end the game, you're planning ahead

[zMuffinMan]

the simpler solution is to ask CTD to vig me if you were magically town

If it is a mislynch

btw, again, this is not what a town player says

poor attempt

[zMuffinMan]

so "undermine the players who are going to be around with you tomorrow" will never happen.

I'm preparing for my lynch. If anyone failed to see that, I have nothing else to say.

yes, now you're doing it, after i ruined your attempts at sowing seeds of suspicion elsewhere. it's a valiant effort, i probably would have just given up already if i were in your shoes.

and if you do manage to lynch me today, i'll bet good money you'll be in thread right after the night deadline ends making promises that you're really not scum and it must have been one of the lesser active players all along!

[zMuffinMan]

btw, CTD, even though it's theoretically unsound, if by some miracle seeempty is lynched today and isn't scum, i wouldn't even fault you if you vig killed me. i mean, it would result in a loss and it's disappointing that you're so blind to the fact that i'm town that it's almost painful to read what you write, but i don't really see how it can be anyone but seeempty here so i'm not particularly worried about that situation actually arising.

[zMuffinMan]

Quoting out of context

no?

if you were town, you wouldn't be saying "

if

i'm a mislynch" - you'd know you were a mislynch

thus a poor attempt

If you're lynch today and you're "magically town", I would definitely look at the remaining slots, especially my second top scum pick, singersigner's slot.

right. so what you said in 990 is for if you're lynched, but if i'm lynched, people shouldn't auto-vote you tomorrow and allow you time to look at other slots?

jesus christ you're so obviously scum

[zMuffinMan]

You're leaving yourself with options for later

what options am i leaving myself with? i literally said no one makes sense as scum but you

yeah, wow. lots of options for me there.

[zMuffinMan]

you call it nitpicking, OK. pointing out the lack of town mindset in the phrasing of your posts could technically be classed as nitpicking, i suppose, but that doesn't make it any less valid.

i am aware you're not proposing people auto-vote you. i was illustrating the contradiction - you're apparently so confident i'm scum that you're willing to say i should be lynched no discussion, but if i do get lynched today, you'll be scrambling to throw suspicion elsewhere; in other words, the proposal you suggested isn't actually a proposal you're willing to follow through with if it goes the other way around

and if nitpicking is such a bad thing or something, then why are you nitpicking my statements?

[zMuffinMan]

You're scum and you're going to lose if they follow my proposal

then put your money where your mouth is

self-vote and i will not fight my lynch in the miraculous event it reaches a tomorrow. hey, i'll even self-vote

or we can do it the other way around. i'll self-vote today and you shut up and die tomorrow.

[zMuffinMan]

But if I'm not scum? You said nothing about what you will think if I'm not scum

this again betrays the lack of town mindset in your posts

you are not town. if you were, you wouldn't be constantly dealing in the hypothetical with statements like "if i'm not scum" - you'd be talking in absolutes

[zMuffinMan]

Why would I personally want to follow proposal if you're not scum?

why would you suggest it in the first place, then?

[zMuffinMan]

god, you're so fucking obviously scum

if you aren't self-voting in your next post, i'll take it to mean you don't actually have the balls to follow through with your proposal (i.e. it was empty bravado) and we can do it the other way around with my lynch today and you shutting up and dying tomorrow

it's faster if you just fucking give up instead of dragging this game out but whatever. i understand you have your win con to play to

[zMuffinMan]

oh, the noble seeempty

so willing to die for the cause, except when someone actually asks him to follow through

so town

omg

[zMuffinMan]

rofl

you're so fucking scum

Vote: muffin

[zMuffinMan]

if you were actually town, who was genuinely willing to sacrifice your life to see me lynched, then you'd accept the proposal i just laid out

i offered to self-vote if there was another day phase after your lynch - you didn't take the offer because you're fucking scum and all you're doing right now is empty bravado in hopes of surviving another day so you can push suspicion onto the people lurking today

you're unwilling to make the reverse deal (i.e. if i'm lynched today, you get autovoted tomorrow) because you're scum hoping for my lynch today and setting up for a fucking tomorrow

so let's do it. i accept your proposal, but the other way around

lynch me today, you shut up and die tomorrow.

if you're not scum who's worried about losing with this proposal, then no issue, right?

[zMuffinMan]

I won't accept either proposal

it is the exact proposal you offered

just the other way around

you apparently think i'm scum. you should be fine with this if you were fine with the other one

it's funny watching you squirm

[zMuffinMan]

hahahahahaha

yeah

totally desperate. omg. you can see the desperation in me asking to be lynched. totally.

[zMuffinMan]

I won't accept self voting when my proposal hasn't been accepted yet.

i OFFERED to self-vote if it reached a tomorrow

what more could you want?

you're scum who was never willing to follow through with the proposal. it was bravado. so we'll do it the other way around and then i get to laugh at your actually desperate attempts to talk your way out of it tomorrow