Open 567 - Pick Your POWERRRR!!! - Abandoned

[Hershey Kiss]

Ok so I don't really like Venrob so far. I don't like that he voted Elmo to start out but I don't really want to say why. Anyone who can figure it out probably realized it already. Then I don't like that after seeming to be thinking for himself, he just follows gameplay's vote after he rolled a die and decided not to do that he just does it anyway. Then someone said he doesn't usually like Day 1 but he's posting a lot and getting into the game really well and those two things don't line up. But I'm not sure how I feel about there already being a few votes on him.

Toby, you said scum wouldn't pick 4 because it's a popular number and they want power roles. Why would town pick it then? Chances are they either didn't realize it was so popular or they are scum messing with our heads. Probably the first.

I think gameplay is town. He seems to be legitimately trying to figure things out and I like the way he's thinking even if I'm not agreeing with everything. He may or may not be right, but his posts have a genuine feel.

Sal, why are you voting gameplay?

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Anatole, why is Aafter a VI? Why is explaining a RVS vote VIish?

Siv, why would you not want a power role?

Gameplay, why do you think scum would pick lower numbers more than town would?

Toby, explain your Siv vote. I feel kind of weird about him, but I don't think it helps scum any more than town to try not to get a power role. I feel like it goes against both win conditions. On the Elmo vote from venrob, I'd really rather not go into that. Just something I noticed, and looking back, probably should have never even brought up. On the number 4, no, I'm not really agreeing with you. It's the same as the Siv thing. I can't see why anyone of either alignment would pick it thinking other people would pick it. They probably had no idea it would be so popular. Except siv apparently. And I picked my 12 because I thought it was the lowest number that would be safe from doubling up.

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Oh. This:

VOTE: Venrob for his meme dropping.

Good ol' Day 1.

VOTE: Aafter

Why did you feel the need to qualify your RVS vote as RVS?


Good to see you're sticking to your VI roots gameplay, I'm proud of you for not changing in the face of adversity.

Looked like you were talking to Aefter.

Sooo.. why if Gameplay VI then? I don't see it. He seems to be doing fine.

[Hershey Kiss]

Oh. This:

VOTE: Venrob for his meme dropping.

Good ol' Day 1.

VOTE: Aafter

Why did you feel the need to qualify your RVS vote as RVS?


Good to see you're sticking to your VI roots gameplay, I'm proud of you for not changing in the face of adversity.

Looked like you were talking to Aefter.

Sooo.. why is Gameplay VI then? I don't see it. He seems to be doing fine.

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Toby' you didn't really answer the question. Siv claims to have intentionally picked a bad number. You called him scum for it. Why is this scummy? Why is scum more likely to do that than town? Do you believe that the other 4's did the same thing?

Sal, you completely ignored my question. Why did you vote Gameplay?

Speaking of Gameplay, where is this VI thing coming from? He doesn't seem that way at all to me.

Gameplay, my questions are trying to get a feel of what everyone is thinking. Just because I ask a question doesn't mean I'm going after the person. Like I've asked Toby a lot of questions. I think Toby is town. The reason I didn't vote is because my biggest scum read was Venrob but he was getting a lot of votes already and that scared me away from that.

It was a semi-RVS vote just meant to insert myself into the game when I didn't have time to really contribute.
I did notice he seemed kind of eager to jump on Anatole, which seemed suspicious to me mostly because of him actually being one of the 3 numbers gameplay said to find suspicious - could be an attempt to deflect.

Anyway I'm comfortable keeping my vote there until it gets a response from Venrob

I don't like this at all. Semi RVS is a lame excuse when you have a real reason. It's like you're just trying to defend a weak vote on a bandwagon.

?????
did you just

That rolefish...

Vote Hephaestus

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I don't like this at all. Semi RVS is a lame excuse when you have a real reason. It's like you're just trying to defend a weak vote on a bandwagon.

Can't believe I put someone at L-5 before being 100% sure he's scum. I could learn something from you

It's not about him being close to a lynch or I'd have said something about the other people who voted. It's the semi RVS comment. Why did you feel the need to call it that if you have a reason for voting? I know it's not a strong reason, but can't you just say that? And even if he was five votes away, the momentum was there. You don't RVS a guy who has been voted a couple times already unless you are doing it for the sake of bandwagoning like Siv. You had a reason. You knew it was weak. So you tried to pass it as a joke, but called it semi so you could use your reason too.

Heph wrote:?????
did you just

That rolefish...

Hahaha what?? Sala literally just claimed or pretended to claim for no reason at all. I didn't have to rolefish if I wanted to.

He was only softclaiming at the time. I guess he is showing off his role now, but at the time there was no reason to point it out.

I'm most likely to believe that if Siv is scum that he lied about why he picked four when Venrob pointed it out.

If that's what you believe, fine. I don't see it that way though. I don't think Siv is that dumb.

You fuckin idiot I already told you I didnt throw the game. Go kill yourself

There is no reason for this ever no matter what.

I don't like Salamence hiding behind policy for everything. Sal, is there anyone you think is scum? Do you intend to scumhunt at all?

Everyone, especially those who called me anti-town for acknowledging that Sala has repeatedly claimed a role, why do you not take issue with the actual claim?

I kind of do, actually. At first it didn't bother me because everyone plays different and if he is a town vig, vig isn't usually a NK target unless they kill scum and get confirmed. But if he is scum, he is hiding behind his power role and thinking he can't be lynched because of it and I notice he isn't scum hunting so he might be doing that here. But if this is true, it makes gameplay and Venrob both likely town and I don't know what to think of Venrob right now because everything about his play looks like scum. But I kind of think he is scummy looking town who scum is jumping all over. But that still leaves you and Sal as my top scum reads and now you are voting Sal so that confuses me even more. I probably shouldn't be looking for connections so much on Day 1, but it bothers me a little that my top scum reads (Heph, Venrob, Sal) don't look like scum together.

[Hershey Kiss]

Aaaaaand my laptop murdered my post. Let me retype it the best I can.

Gameplay, I already answered that. All the votes on Venrob made me think I might be wrong. I wasn't sure if he was scum or not. I especially didn't like Heph's vote.

Heph, bandwagoning in RVS is fine. Notice I'm not on Siv's case for it. But you didn't call it bandwagoning. You added momentum without words with a naked vote. When you did come back to explain it, you called it Semi RVS, but also gave a reason with his posts about Anatole. Either it's RVS or it's serious. You can't have it both ways. Did you think Venrob was scum when you voted him or were you RVSing? Answer these hypotheticals. If you were first to post, would you have still voted Venrob? If Venrob made those same posts about Anatole, but had no votes, would you have voted him? If Venrob had made no posts and had two votes on him, would you have voted him?

1) It was practically a hard claim
2) Why is it okay to soft claim for no reason? It's still a claim.
2b) Why is it not okay to call attention to this and how is that role fishing?

First of all, you are ignoring the fact that I agree Sal probably shouldn't have claimed. Asking why it's ok when I DON"T think it's ok is a loaded question. Stop doing that. It's not going to get you anywhere. Now. My issue with your rolefishing stuff is that you seemed very eager to find out if he was really a vig or not. To be fair, the fact that you vote him right after he claimed vig and could end you with a single bullet actually looks kind of townish. But I don't think that outweighs the other stuff.

Toby, I just meant I don't think Siv would lie about why he picked his number like that. It's not worth lying about as scum. At least not with something so out there like that. Don't worry, I think you are town. I'm just trying to figure out where you are coming from and why Siv is scummy to you and not just different.

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Sooo.

On Heph. I don't like:
-His Venrob vote
-His "Semi RVS" explanation for his Venrob vote.
-His reaction his Sal's original softclaim.
-His misrepping my issue with his Venrob vote
-His misrepping my take on Sal's claim.
-His face

I do like:
-His lack of fear of voting a claimed vig.

On Venrob, I don't like:
-His Elmo vote
-His weird think for himself, roll a die to decide whether to continue to think for himself, die says think for himself, and then follow Gameplay thing. It's a weird form of buddying that just wasn't needed.
-His apparently playing against his Day 1 meta.

I do like, or should say like him for:
-the wagon on him.

On Sal, I don't like:
-The way he claimed.
-The fact that he is hiding behind policy for votes and vig targets.
-The fact that the point before this defeats the purpose of claiming in the first place. Assuming he claims for reactions to being a vig target at least.
-The absolute lack of scum hunting

I do like:
-Come to think of it, nothing.

So I actually would be willing to lynch either Heph or Sal at this point and could compromise on Venrob if needed.

[Hershey Kiss]

The main thing I remember about Anen was that he pointed out Heph's vote on Venrob first and I liked that. Let me look back over his posts and see if anything else stands out.

Ok sooo

I like his idea of how scum would pick numbers. Not necessarily because I agree with it. More that it looks like he's thinking about it for the first time. It doesn't look like he already discussed this with scumbuddies. The only way I'm wrong here is if he is just repeating his original arguement to his scumbuddies. But why would he do that? I don't see the benefit.

He also saw the same thing I did about your point against Siv. I like that. It shows that he is thinking critically.

I fully agree with his take on softclaims and not pointing them out. And that he asked Siv "why us?" In regards to being sheeped rather than just thinking it's so cool that someone thinks he is town.

The only thing I don't like is the awkward phrasing of "consider this post a null tell" but I think all he meant was that he was stepping out of the game for a second which is fine.

So overall, I think Anen is town.

[Hershey Kiss]

Hershey, maybe I am misunderstanding why you don't like Venrob's Elmo vote. The reasoning I assumed would also apply to Sala and maybe perhaps to Siv's Elmo vote. I'm trying to be obscure here.

Not really. But please don't continue to talk about this. There is something I don't want scum to figure out. They may have already, but why risk it?

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Toby, right now, I have Venrob as my number three scum read.

Heph, please quote where I said you are scum for placing a third vote. And my issue with you regarding my Sal read is that you were making it out like I thoughthe was town and was ok with his claim. That's simply not true. And you missed the point on what I said about your reaction to the softclaim. So I repeat, there was an eagerness to find out if he was really claiming vig that stood out to me.

I agree with Anen. Gameplay should post his reasons for voting Sal. And that's whether they are original or not. I want to know exactly what he is thinking.

Gameplay, no, not an alt. But that's the first time I've been asked that so maybe that means I'm getting better lol

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Sal, Heph's vote that I had an issue with was on Venrob, not Gameplay. But if we pretend it was Gameplay and you say I'm white kniting a townie, how is Gameplay also scum and bussing me later on? Actually, how is that vote even a bus when he moved off of it later?

Like are you just looking for reasons to call me scum because I called you scum first?

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So I was trying to catch up earlier and lost my internet catchup. But it was really frustrating that half of what I was reading was Gameplay's one line posts about how he isn't a VI and THAT is why I can't keep up. Annoying.

But anywayy. Sal, I just realized what you meant when you said I was defensive about you voting Gameplay. It was when you voted him without giving a reason and I thought he was town so I asked what your reason was, right? How was that unreasonable? I wanted to know what you were thinking because it wasn't the same as me.

idk how you can play this set-up before and know a game enough to dabble with number theory but not remember how many scum there are.

This and hasn't he been on the site enough to expect three scum in a game this size too? This is a very good point.

Does it bother everyone else at all that Siv keeps calling himself a VI? Almost looks like an excuse for poor play, not that he seems to be playing all that poorly outside of his number choice.

Regfan is changing my mind about that slot (Venrob). I don't know how to explain it but it looks like he is actually looking for scum and not faking it. I actually see his point about Sal too how shooting Gameplay doesn't seem like a scum move. But keep in mind he hasn't actually done it yet. And he is kind of under pressure to not shoot a strong town player now even if he is scum. And if the person under him tried for vig, and the people above him flip or claim, he'll be outted as vig so that random extra kill on strong town would be traced right back to him anyway. Maybe that makes vig a bad choice for scum then and he's townier for taking it? But if Gameplay is town, he'll still be killing town and it is an extra kill. I don't know. I guess all I can say is I follow your logic, but I'm not completely convinced you are right. I'll also point out that Regfan asking for criticism and questions on his reads looks town too.

Reg, why did Siv's reaction to your vote look townish?

That's up through page 16. I'll do 17 on as soon as I can

[Hershey Kiss]

Okayy, I'm back at reading.

Regfan already pointed this out, but Siv's "if I'm town" comment bothered me a little too.

Anen, two things. What were you hoping to accomplish in post 406? And regarding 407, try not to talk about these things. As obvious as some of it may seem, it's going to help scum figure out power roles more than it is going to help town find scum.

Oh wow. I just read Regfan's vanilla claim and I agree town shouldn't be taking those roles. I mean, it's not impossible that they did, but why would they?

So ZZZ got rolecop. He says he doesn't understand the setup and the role was taken before he replaced in soooo. He probably didn't realize when he claimed that it's a scummy choice and thought it was ok to claim? I think he may be our best bet for a lynch. I can't think of what use a role cop would be for town. It can catch a fakeclaim, but this setup probably doesn't see a lot of fakeclaims. Can those who know the setup tell me if this is true or not?

Dont you see it benefiets town by denying scum access to it?

Picking universal backup denies scum access to rolecop too. Say we run up a power role Day 1 and lynch a VT or scum instead. Then that PR we ran up gets NK'd. Now the universal backup gets that role AND scum can't have a rolecop. OMGUSing the first vote on you doesn't help your cause any either.

Aaaaaand I see Regfan making my points before I get a chance again (about taking universal backup to deny scum a rolecop)

Sal, you seriously think ZZZ is town? I don't believe it. Why would town take rolecop? Why? What use is it? Oh, and assuming ZZZ is scum, that means Anatole is scum and I don't think his argument with Gameplay that made him replace out was fake, so shooting Gameplay is probably a bad idea.

So I'm caught up. Are we ready for a hammer or do people have more to say first?

[Hershey Kiss]

Heyy! I woke up super early and decided to check this and it's open. I'm not sure who to vote just yet, but I feel like I remember a few people saying ZZZ might be town and it was like there was no way he would so either they're really good or they are scum who knew it was going to happen. When I have time, I have to go back and see who I'm thinking of.

[Hershey Kiss]

Ok sooo. I'm gonna re-read after ZZZ's claim first, then I'll read Day 2.

Gameplay's reaction of saying Sal goes next doesn't look like he's taking advantage of a player he knows to be town. So that makes Gameplay look town. I say this for two reasons. One, he said Sal is next for a lynch and seems to honestly believe ZZZ is about to flip scum. Two, ZZZ says Gameplay goes next if he flips town. Gameplay accepts that deal.

Then there's Regfan who drew out the claim to begin with. He's probably town but there's always the conspiracy theory that Reg is scum who wasn't able to get rolecop and argued that universal backup doesn't make sense, so he tried to get a power role lynched while possibly outting one or two more and was successful. But that seems like a stretch to me so he can be town for now.

Siv/Toby/Anen statistically should contain a scum for voting next without really adding anything. But Toby is dead. I don't think Siv or Anen is scum. But five townies starting a lynch on scum Day 1? Maybe Gameplay was faking confidence. I don't know. I think I'm wrong already somewhere.

Now Sal, I'm pretty sure is scum here. He was the first to call ZZZ town and he was confident in it. If you don't already know it happened, who in the world town reads someone who claims to have picked role cop, especially early in the draft. Especially when taking back up keeps role cop away from scum too? It doesn't make sense from a logical point of view. I don't think being right makes Sal just that good. I think he already knew ZZZ was town.

Sal finally votes (lol?) And Flubber gives intent to hammer. Not sure how to read Flubber there. I feel like that makes sense for either town or scum. But then later, Flub "hammers" because he's given intent which seems like he feels obligated but doesn't want to. That might be a bus. I think he forgot he was already voting for real so I'm ignoring the fact that it wasn't a real hammer.. Oh, and I don't like him calling for a vig on Elmo either. Sal and Flub are probably both scum.

Then there's Heph coming in saying basically nothing and making another L-1 vote after the unvotes. That rubs me the wrong way too.

Elmo finally hammers and it's night.

Okayy. So, is it as simple as Heph/Sal/Flubber when I was scum reading two of them already yesterday? Probably not. Let's face it, nobody is good enough to analyze this stuff and come up with all three scum just like that. And I may be reading with the bias of already having established reads on players. And the odds of a wagon starting out 5 town but all three scum later joining? I don't know. But those are the names that stick out as the scummiest to me and I want one of them lynched. I won't vote until I catch up on Day 2, but that's where I stand right now. I've got a guy coming over soon, so I'll keep reading until he gets here, but probably won't finish.

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Who the fuck would lynch a d1 Rolecop claim coming from ZZZX

wow

Are you being serious?
^reading more tells me yes. Wow.

Regfan, you said you are pretty sure Saki is town. Why?

Flubber, Siv isn't universally scum read. Elmo called him obvtown. I basically see what he sees.

Vote heph

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Why don't you like the heph wagon?

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And?

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Unvote

I'm not caught up and I don't want to rush a lynch before knowing what's going on. Probably better to talk more first anyway.

[Hershey Kiss]

Uct, in 16 pages, all you got was two town reads? One of which was already lynched and flipped town? That's pretty weak. <-edit: oh. I read the next post. You think two of my town reads are scummy too and didn't say why.

Those saying muffin is obvtown, what looks genuine about his place regarding the rolecop claim? To me, it looks like he knew ZZZ was town and wanted town cred.

Reg, I have Anen as town too, but I don't see where the ridiculously obvious part comes in. Can you explain that a little? I liked your points about Saki.

Uct, you talk about Sal replacing out in anger. It seemed random to me. Like I don't think he said anything about why. How could you know it was in anger. The only way I can think of that you'd know is if you are scum with him and he said something out of thread. Tell me why I'm wrong.

Something about Flubber's Elmo push feels unnatural to me. Like it's all about his read on Siv and that's it. I don't like it at all.

Anen, you make a good point that if Uct thinks Heph is scum, the Regfan vote is weird. Especially when all he says about it is that he is avenging Anatole and Regfan was the one leading that lynch. I was gonna point out that you are kind of doing the same thing going against a heph wagon while scum reading him but I guess letting him catch up is fair. I find myself agreeing with a lot of your reads. I think we did this yesterday too.

Anyway. I think one of heph and flubber is scum and the other is town. I think Uct is scum and he fits as a buddy with either of them. Muffin might still be scum, but not with heph. So that gives me either heph/uct/??? or flubber/uct/muffin. If heph and uct are scum, the third could be maybe a lurker or Elmo although Elmo doesn't look that bad. Maybe the aafter slot? But Uct is the only one that fits as scum no matter who else is and I kind of want to force everyone to take anopinion on him soooooo...

Vote Uct

[Hershey Kiss]

That seems like OMGUS that you are caling me scum now.

The point on Sal is that you seemed to know he replaced out because of anger. You weren't speculating until I asked. You stated it as fact.

As for town reads, siv and regfan are my top ones. Anen, Gameplay, and Saki are next tier.

[Hershey Kiss]

Why does being voted make you angry?

Wanting an opinion was only part of the vote. I want to give heph time to catch up. Your thing about Sal was weird and looked like you knew too much. Your post on the first 16 pages lacked a ton, including reads and reasons for the few reads you did provide. And I like Anen's point about your Regfan vote. But to answer your question, I mostly want opinions on you because most people haven't been able to give one yet and it's good to know where everyone stands.

[Hershey Kiss]

I feel like people have called muffin town though.

Muffin/heph because heph was obsessed with Sal being scum and kind of seemed to be rolefishing him. If they are scum together, that's just a very good job of faking that and I don't think heph is the kind of player to pull that off.

And I agree with your number six.

[Hershey Kiss]

How could you know it was in anger. The only way I can think of that you'd know is if you are scum with him and he said something out of thread

. . . . .

i'm going to let you think about this for a minute until you understand how little sense this actually makes

How's he know then?

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ok let's make it simple

how exactly do you imagine that played out in the scum QT?

sala: "gosh darn it, i am just so mad that town mislynched today. gosh darn it. i can't put up with a town that plays this badly. i am replacing out because it infuriates me when scum wins games"

or something like that?

I don't know. All I know is I don't see how he knew. It's not like that was the only point I made anyway. And Anen made a few good ones too

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No scum nor town benefit from an attitude like mine.

Isn't it against site rules not to play to your win condition?

[Hershey Kiss]

Awwww. I was having so much fun manipulating Anen in the neighbor thread. And Elmo was about to be NK'd.

Muffin, I think we were going to win.