Open 568: Wolf Gang City (C18++ – YEP SHE'S SINGIN')

[Anatole Kuragin]

hey asl

[Anatole Kuragin]

that's honey's ASL you fucking prude, what so you don't get down to hell for the weekend so you're better than us? you make me sick

[Anatole Kuragin]

VOTE: SnugglyDuckling


Ducklings are ugly, not snuggly. Seriously. IMPOSTAH. I'm ze ugly duckling in a shrek musical here. True story.
So, I'm voting you for purely ironic purposes as well as RVS so YURP

Is that really.. wow SnugglyDuckling is the cutest name I've ever seen

[Anatole Kuragin]

Seems like an obvious smear campaign against the forces of adorable.

[Anatole Kuragin]

It's from the album artwork of my favorite record.

[Anatole Kuragin]

And you know, wanting to be set apart from all the dratini icons.

[Anatole Kuragin]

Do you guys honestly think scum would make that comment publicly?

[Anatole Kuragin]

Do you guys honestly think scum would make that comment publicly?

Yes, or else I wouldn't vote someone for it. Welcome to my scumreads for defending them.

Damn columbo you really cracked this case. Anyone who points out how dumb you are is scum.

[Anatole Kuragin]

Beast is there anyone who isn't on your scum pile?

[Anatole Kuragin]

Do you guys honestly think scum would make that comment publicly?

Why not? I see scum gets 'too scummy to be scum' reads all the time.

Can you think of any reason, why town-me would ask that kind of question?

VOTE: beastcharizard

For a shitty reaction test or a shitty joke? either one

[Anatole Kuragin]

Is it scummy to have a huge scum-pile? If not, why does this question matters?

It is anti-town, and so potentially scummy yes.

[Anatole Kuragin]

everything charizard does kinda seems counterproductive

[Anatole Kuragin]

nothing csareo has said makes any sense

[Anatole Kuragin]

VOTE: Csareo

[Anatole Kuragin]

Hayato - if you are scumreading 1 scum player and 4 town players, you're obviously using less than ideal evidence to form your conclusions, or you're trying to twist BS into evidence as scum has to do.

Now can we lynch Csareo? Dude is totes scummy.

[Anatole Kuragin]

I'd cooperate with a shiryu lynch.

[Anatole Kuragin]

Are you saying he SHOULD be lynched as a policy lynch or that we are lynching him as a policy lynch?

[Anatole Kuragin]

It's not a policy lynch for me, but I do see what you're saying.

[Anatole Kuragin]

I could totes see that as scum trying to get off an imminent townie flip.

[Anatole Kuragin]

Just a head's up - people probably aren't posting because there wasn't a day start PM.

So Mafia killed a werewolf-aligned player and werewolves killed a mafia goon?

[Anatole Kuragin]

VOTE: Not_mafia

Never once addressed Beast day one and barely did much else, yet he felt the need to defend you. Why?

[Anatole Kuragin]

So you thought he was a scum baiting a hammer on himself?

[Anatole Kuragin]

Shiryu didn't you like lurk in a lot of Beli's game?

[Anatole Kuragin]

Well I remember I tried keeping up with you guys. I mean sure, there were points where I didn't have a lot to contribute, but I thought I hung in there for the most part.

I looked back through it and it doesn't look like it. I guess you just never really popped up on my radar that game.

[Anatole Kuragin]

^ Do you disagree with me that your reasons to vote NM was bad?

I suggest, we lynch Flame.

VOTE: Flame

I find his behavior generally scummy and not consistent with stuff I can't discuss. If anything you are scummier for answering my question for him. I find it weird that you don't get the value in letting a player address questions directed to them when you seem to be a proponent of reaction tests.

[Anatole Kuragin]

I was going to bring it up again next time he posted.

Look at his entire ISO - mostly just brief comments not related to any scumhunting or calling things scummy without explanation, and defending Beast

[Anatole Kuragin]

No town you is supposed to think like a townie and let people do their own investigations without mucking them up. This is the second time you've said "town-me" which is unnerving in itself. Why are you so concerned to answer questions for him? It's frustrating and it renders any reactions that may have come from that player null and void. There is no town motivation for you to do that.

Defending beast was scummy because he clearly wasn't a townie and wasn't acting remotely townie. there was no reason to defend him

[Anatole Kuragin]

I'm guessing you still haven't read his ISO

[Anatole Kuragin]

which would take all of ten seconds and I think would lead most people to the conclusion he is worthy of rope

[Anatole Kuragin]

nevermind

[Anatole Kuragin]

oh shit good point

[Anatole Kuragin]

yeah but being uncooperative and short is my town meta, it's not NM's

[Anatole Kuragin]

You don't know my town meta

I read your ISO in several games from the sycamore scuffle to mutiny and you were much more aggressive in those games as town. Here you are just sheeping or making pointless one-liners or asking irrelevant questions to look useful.

[Anatole Kuragin]

can you explain why, don johnson?

[Anatole Kuragin]

I would totes vote for Hayato. Dude rubs me the wrong way gutwise.

[Anatole Kuragin]

in fact VOTE: hayato

[Anatole Kuragin]

Someone mentioning their own meta as a defense but saying nothing else on why you're not scum is very suspicious. Anyone could have be scum, have a town meta, and act as they do when they're town, then say their town because it's their meta. I have a feeling that Anatole is manipulating his meta. Also once he starts to get voted on, he votes hayato who is the only other person who got voted by Lissa.

Also Lissa how was Anatole mentioning his own meta enough to warrant an unvote?

how could I prove I am not scum? are you role fishing or is there some secret townie handshake?

[Anatole Kuragin]

How can I defend myself against nothing. Your only case is "he is lying about his meta" which is clearly untrue if you look at any of my games. The case against me is bullshit and the only way I could possibly PROVE I am town is with role PM info, which I'm not giving you so stop asking.

[Anatole Kuragin]

I am pretty sure bringing up your own meta is null. Being aware of one's own meta does devalue it slightly but I can definitely see a Townie knowing that they are acting like they act as town and bringing it up.

If you look at the point where my meta was originally brought up it's pretty obvious i wasn't doing it with the intention of clearing myself, I was trying to make a comparison between mine and NM's town playstyle. Mine is consistent, his isn't.

[Anatole Kuragin]

Has Anatole even addressed Fu?

Also, liking the replacement.

Why do I need to address fu?

[Anatole Kuragin]

Has Anatole even addressed Fu?

Also, liking the replacement.

I'll about around later to read through and gather my thoughts / reads together. From what little I gathered, I will say I disagree so far with my predecessors reads on Anatole. I find him to be rather scummy, with his actions so far. But I'll need a full read through before I can really say anything else.

Which actions in particular do you find scummy?

[Anatole Kuragin]

Sure Neil, but it looks like you're suspicious of Lissa and not me.

[Anatole Kuragin]

Good OMGUS vote

[Anatole Kuragin]

@Anatole: Speaking of Flying Aces, I'm actually getting a completely different vibe from you here than I did in that game. Don't know what to make of it, seeing as it has only been that one game that I played with you.

Unfortunately majiffy isn't here to yell at me to make it consistent.

[Anatole Kuragin]

This is mainly a prod-dodge. I haven't been able to take the time to properly go over this game.

And overall he is just being unhelpful.

So I was going to ask about this but then realized you had already addressed it in 519 after hayato asked about it. So instead I'll ask: Would you really call his barrage of questions unhelpful? I'll certainly grant you your point that his tone and what he says can be taken as scummy, though I wouldn't really qualify it as unhelpful.

@Anatole: Speaking of Flying Aces, I'm actually getting a completely different vibe from you here than I did in that game. Don't know what to make of it, seeing as it has only been that one game that I played with you.

Unfortunately majiffy isn't here to yell at me to make it consistent.

So does it have to be majiffy? Or would anyone yelling at you do the trick?

you're welcome to find out

[Anatole Kuragin]

Bob why do you think I am town?

[Anatole Kuragin]

Seems like a really well-thought out read.

[Anatole Kuragin]

Voted him for minutiae then he turns around and OMGUS votes me. Going to assume I struck a nerve and keep my vote there.

[Anatole Kuragin]

shucks

[Anatole Kuragin]

Yeah, but I'm not a lynch possibility today so move on brosef

[Anatole Kuragin]

I'm saying that. What's your case for me to defend against?

[Anatole Kuragin]

Someone mentioning their own meta as a defense but saying nothing else on why you're not scum is very suspicious. Anyone could have be scum, have a town meta, and act as they do when they're town, then say their town because it's their meta. I have a feeling that Anatole is manipulating his meta. Also once he starts to get voted on, he votes hayato who is the only other person who got voted by Lissa.

Also Lissa how was Anatole mentioning his own meta enough to warrant an unvote?

wait, this was a case?

[Anatole Kuragin]

what's scummy about stating a fact?

[Anatole Kuragin]

what is scummy about the post you referenced?

[Anatole Kuragin]

the classic "he's just an asshole" defense

[Anatole Kuragin]

and all humans are assholes

etc. etc.

[Anatole Kuragin]

I don't like him, seems phony. I don't know he's town.

[Anatole Kuragin]

I'll lynch NM or hayato. Shiryu is a compromise lynch, because I think him and Hayato could be a scum team together.

Flub - how should I defend against that? What would be the ideal townie defense, barring a claim?

[Anatole Kuragin]

Hayato, your posts are embarrassing to read because it reads as though you're trying to manufacture reasons to vote me, the same player you said yesterday would be a bad lynch.

[Anatole Kuragin]

because I think him and Hayato could be a scum team together.

This is something that I've expected town-HoneyBee to say.

Hayato, your posts are embarrassing to read because it reads as though you're trying to manufacture reasons to vote me, the same player you said yesterday would be a bad lynch.

Things happened since Yesterday. Things you said I was manufacturing.

In case you're town who thinks 'If I play shady enough, people will not vote me for a 'too scummy to be scum' argument.', then that is bad play. *I* can't tell the difference between town or scum attempting to do that, although I'm seeing some people who thinks you're town for this, which I think is silly.

If you're town, stop tunneling and look at how scummy you are from a neutral POV. And stop trying to play the 'easy target'. I don't town-read those.

HoneyBee: Did you had similar suspicion about me-shiryu being scum partners? Because it seems Anatole who never asked any question about this saw this connection, but you who explicitly made investigation around that never mentioned it.

Fortunately I don't give a shit about players like you town-reading me - I just care about winning the game. There is nothing "scummy" about my play except that you can't see any evident scumhunting aside from my vote on you, and you don't like my tone or playstyle. If that's the best you can do, the problem isn't me, it's that you're using really awful criteria for finding scum. You probably have a very narrow view about how this game is played and use the way people play it to get reads instead of looking at motivation or you know, other things of substance.

[Anatole Kuragin]

Or if we consider a scum motivation - I voted you so you voted me. You're interested in self-preservation because you need your faction to survive and you're already down a traitor or a wolf. I look like an easy target because bad players frequently go along with lynches on players for tone or playstyle reasons. That's why you manufactured reasons to vote me based on the way you "feel" about my posts, or trying to get meaning out of my statements that very obviously have nothing to do with what you're attributing to them.

which I think is a lie, since there is no reason to wait until someone to post again before you can question them. Scum motivation here? Scum-AK was caught red-handed calling me 'scummier than N_M' for ruining a question which was not really an important one. He needed to prove that that question was really important, so made up that lie to show he hadn't forgotten about it but merely waiting for N_M to show up. Then he said:

Like, if you're town and you actually believe this, I feel sorry for you. This is such a contrived explanation and excuse for you fucking up my own investigating.

His play up until now: it doesn't feels like he cared much about scum-hunting. But suddenly there, he cared so much about a question he posted two pages ago that he called me scummy for ruining it. His action there at that moment wasn't consistent to the personality he is showing us since or was showing us so far.

More reason why I think it was faked: If you tried to investigate someone and suddenly someone else disturb the investigation and he is therefore 'scummier'. Why be frustrated catching scum? Sure, your investigation on the scummy person went to ruin, but hey you've caught a much scummier scum. Shouldn't you be more 'Aha! Caught you! I'm awesome!' than 'Catching scummier scum is frustrating!'. AK's emotion does not fit there.

Also, another reason why I think it's fake: after I "ruined" that question, he didn't react immediately to it but decided to post other stuff first. Only after I asked him to join the flame wagon, did the "frustration" kicked in and only then he pointed out that I've ruined his investigation.

Yeah, pretty crazy how when you fuck up someone's investigation they don't show all their card anymore. You've made it very clear you're either a) a busy-body who will get in the way of others' attempts to scumhunt or b) very obviously WK townies or defend your scumbuddies. Unfortunately I don't know NM's alignment because you got in the way for no conceivable fucking reason. I don't want to work with you because you're either an awful, conceited player, or you're scum. So forgive me if I don't OPENLY scumhunt right now.

What are you, a therapist? My emotions don't make sense? I don't KNOW that NM was scum. I couldn't possibly know that unless I had a result on him. That has nothing to do with the fact that I need to be able to talk to players to get the information I want and you ruined that. Do I know 100% that you are scum? No. But there's no town motivation for obstructing other players' scumhunting so it's better than what I have on NM or anyone else right now. I don't believe in policy lynching townies, but your blow-hard posting style, OMGUS, and obstructionism make you a liability, no matter how active or busy you look, in addition to those qualities also being typical of scumplay.

We have played in 0 games together, would you like to explain more about how you're able to so effectively read my emotions and my ability to fake them?

[Anatole Kuragin]

If he's town: I don't think we will lose much if he gets lynched. A Town-player, who refuses to cooperate with other Town players. Seems like the best lynch.

If you are town and you said this, I'm probably going to get a nice bottle of wine and drink it while laughing at you for hours. You are the last person I ever want to cooperate with and have rubbed me raw on working with anyone in this game.

[Anatole Kuragin]

inb4 "I was reaction-testing. I'm satisfied with his response."

[Anatole Kuragin]

No, regardless of whether my question was bad it wasn't his question to address. Mafia 101 - if someone is making some attempt to engage a player you don't just cut it off. There is no town motivation for that.

[Anatole Kuragin]

I have to look a little harder at AK's rage wall but I'm seeing Csaero levels of contradiciton in it at first glance.

Feel free to point out the contradiction.

[Anatole Kuragin]

Fortunately I don't give a shit about players like you town-reading me - I just care about winning the game. There is nothing "scummy" about my play except that you can't see any evident scumhunting aside from my vote on you, and you don't like my tone or playstyle. If that's the best you can do, the problem isn't me, it's that you're using really awful criteria for finding scum. You probably have a very narrow view about how this game is played and use the way people play it to get reads instead of looking at motivation or you know, other things of substance.

Why did you care in 641 about defending yourself then?

How come you had nothing to say about the discussion I had with Fu? He thinks I'm scumreading his playstyle after all.

There's a difference between defending myself against actual accusations (in the referenced post I'm pointing out there aren't any legitimate complaints or questions for me to address) and wanting other players to townread me. Everybody approaches townreads in different ways - I've pointed out how I think Hayato's reads are flawed and maybe opportunistic. I don't know why anyone would be townreading me right now, but there's no reason they should be scumreading me. Responding to questions and cases is pro-town, but there's nothing for me to respond to. Hayato doesn't like the way my posts make him

feel

and thinks I'm lying. There's nothing there I can refute or respond to.

didn't really pay attention to the thing with you and fu yet, nothing really jumped out at me. I also don't like interfering with two people having a 1 on 1 discussion. I'll go back and re-read everything at some point, sooner if you're saying it was significant. Fu isn't really on my radar

[Anatole Kuragin]

Shiryu's votes are pretty bad too, but I don't see someone making #636 unless they're desperate for a lynch. Like I said, I'd vote shiryu too.

[Anatole Kuragin]

shiryu is telling the truth

[Anatole Kuragin]

True - but if you were mafia would you try and clear a player who is seen as moderately suspicious? Or would you clear the most innocent looking person you think is VT?

[Anatole Kuragin]

Fair enough, still a bad lynch today probably.

[Anatole Kuragin]

I was on the NM wagon before it was cool

[Anatole Kuragin]

I don't believe I am reaching with the associative tells, I believe I may have found a legitimate connection. And I found when rereading NM's ISO I was not sure why I'd been townreading him so strongly.

VOTE: Anatole

who are you associating me with that allowed you to come to such an incorrect conclusion?

[Anatole Kuragin]

Your progression from voting me, unvoting, voting and the explanation that it was to test hayato comes off pretty badly.

[Anatole Kuragin]

"his iso is scummy"

is the case on me

[Anatole Kuragin]

VOTE: Lissa

[Anatole Kuragin]

A claimed vanilla townie with some consensus of scumminess about them is probably the best we're going to get today. If she comes up town we can evaluate the wagon, who opportunistically jumped off, etc.

[Anatole Kuragin]

Yeah we're absolutely not no-lynching.

[Anatole Kuragin]

I think yours and Shiryu's votes are worst on the Lissa wagon, Josh.

[Anatole Kuragin]

I could make a worse one if you'd like.

probably not possible unless you vote me

[Anatole Kuragin]

I might be content sheeping neil. More at 11.

[Anatole Kuragin]

hayato or fu based on bob/don johnson iso is mafia

[Anatole Kuragin]

outside chance of NM

[Anatole Kuragin]

VOTE: fu

[Anatole Kuragin]

?

[Anatole Kuragin]

Fu is a logical partner to biceph/donjohn

[Anatole Kuragin]

Lissa I've already explained who the scum were. You will flip, either werewolf or mafia, I don't know but you're not town. I've explained who my scum reads were, I don't have much besides that to go off of.

this does give me pause, but since I was already suspicious of fu and neil is a PR, I think it's ok to sheep him

[Anatole Kuragin]

only if snugg died about being a 1-shot cop

[Anatole Kuragin]

do you have a better idea for a lynch?

[Anatole Kuragin]

I think neil tends to be oversure of his reads

[Anatole Kuragin]

fu, your push on NM does not look as strong as it would if you had a guilty result

[Anatole Kuragin]

fu are you confirming yourself as mafia? if you are and you give us the last werewolf, I will attribute you an honorary victory

[Anatole Kuragin]

called NM js

[Anatole Kuragin]

VOTE: flames

[Anatole Kuragin]

L-1, let's get this show on the road

[Anatole Kuragin]

Or josh is a wolf

[Anatole Kuragin]

I wasn't even trying to get him lynched, I thought I was auto-lynch after FuDuzn's spy guilty and I just threw it out for the wifom, so when he got lynched plus RL stuff I just didn't think it through, sorry to Flames and Beast but I couldn't win that way

I think your gambit would have worked if AK counter-claimed you. I wonder if AK had purposely not counter-claim because he suspected you were bussing your partner.

But, nice try N_M! It made the game a bit more interesting.

[Anatole Kuragin]

I knew I wouldn't be nightkilled if I didn't cc and I had a feeling the dude being bussed was scum.

[Anatole Kuragin]

I was half wrong.

[Anatole Kuragin]

wasn't paying attention