Open 621 (C9++): The ZAR SHOW S1 Holiday Special - OVER!

AlwaysInnocent · Post Post #12 (isolation #0) » Sun Dec 20, 2015 11:53 pm

/confirm

AlwaysInnocent · Post Post #15 (isolation #1) » Mon Dec 21, 2015 1:05 am

In post 13, BlueBloodedToffee wrote:No hi?

No how are you?

How rude ABR :p

Because it was all too similar. Scum trying to blend in by copying other confirms and trying not to stand out.

So now you are trying to deceive us by standing out? Nice try, Don Corleone.

AlwaysInnocent · Post Post #18 (isolation #2) » Mon Dec 21, 2015 1:22 am

In post 16, BlueBloodedToffee wrote:That is some top level psychological analysis.

You got me. Lynch me for I have sinned.

I have taken a course on psychology, which I barely passed, so I know what I am talking about. Respect my authority.

AlwaysInnocent · Post Post #30 (isolation #3) » Mon Dec 21, 2015 7:10 am

Two votes?

AlwaysInnocent · Post Post #31 (isolation #4) » Mon Dec 21, 2015 7:11 am

VOTE: BlueBloodedToffee

I am a simple man. I vote for anything that catches my attention longer than three seconds.

AlwaysInnocent · Post Post #37 (isolation #5) » Mon Dec 21, 2015 8:17 am

So Toffee is scum?

AlwaysInnocent · Post Post #42 (isolation #6) » Mon Dec 21, 2015 9:39 am

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Texcat

For drawing conclusions so quickly.

AlwaysInnocent · Post Post #48 (isolation #7) » Mon Dec 21, 2015 10:47 am

In post 43, Aneninen wrote:AlwaysInnocent, you drew a conclusion just as quickly as TexCat.

No, no. I never conclude anything. I only assume things.

AlwaysInnocent · Post Post #49 (isolation #8) » Mon Dec 21, 2015 10:48 am

In post 47, shaddowez wrote:VOTE: Acryon

Serious vote. Jumped on the BBT wagon when it was gaining steam, then when people stopped talking about him and started voting ABR he joins in to do the same.

So you think he is most likely scum?

AlwaysInnocent · Post Post #54 (isolation #9) » Mon Dec 21, 2015 11:49 am

In post 52, shaddowez wrote:
In post 49, AlwaysInnocent wrote:So you think he is most likely scum?

At this point it's the scummiest thing I've seen. I have no problem with vote jumping, but he doesn't seem to have put any reasoning into his votes, and is just latching onto the wagons that are forming.

I don't think it really meant that much, but who knows. It seems so... unnecessary.

AlwaysInnocent · Post Post #64 (isolation #10) » Mon Dec 21, 2015 2:17 pm

VOTE: Lucky2u

RVS vote? Liar!

AlwaysInnocent · Post Post #73 (isolation #11) » Tue Dec 22, 2015 4:41 am

In post 69, Kmd4390 wrote:Guess I'll reveal. Alwaysinnocent was my other scum read. Hard to explain, but he gives off a basic "fitting in" feel rather than a "looking for scum" one. I know it's early but that's when we all have Role PMs freshest in our mind.

Lol. Yeah, well, you can't do much scumhunting yet in this stage. I have a few town-leans: shaddowz and Lowell, but you can't seriously expect to really be able to hunt scum now.

My scumhunting game will gradually pick up as the game progresses and more information becomes available. You will see.

AlwaysInnocent · Post Post #81 (isolation #12) » Tue Dec 22, 2015 6:31 am

UNVOTE:

VOTE: Kop

Needs to come out and play.

AlwaysInnocent · Post Post #91 (isolation #13) » Tue Dec 22, 2015 7:22 am

I don't think TexCat's assumption was worse than yours.

It was obvious that I was poking a bit of fun. I am partly doing this to see how other people react. I think I am allowed to do this this early in the game. It is part of the transition from RVS to scumhunting.

Just like this comment. It gave a certain vibe... as if you'd been defending him preemptively.

I am giving a reason for my slight townread of him.

At this point I checked three games of his randomly. He moved his vote much less frequently.

Who me? We are not allowed to discuss those games yet, since none of them have finished yet. But I will tell you this: I am trying different strategies. It also depends on the context.

You'd moved your vote three times by this post, yet you were talking about your town-leans and the fact that it was (is) hard to scumhunt so early but you'd do more later.
This doesn't add up.

Hint: townreads =/= scumreads.

AlwaysInnocent · Post Post #93 (isolation #14) » Tue Dec 22, 2015 7:37 am

In post 90, Kop wrote:Yes you can. You scum hunt from the game start, and game finish. You make information, get information, use information.

I wouldn't call it real scumhunting in this stage. Of course you are trying to maximize the probability that you lynch scum, but unless scum seriously screw up, they won't give themselves away so easily so early.

I am using information that I have gotten from reading your ISO, and what I gather from this information, you are trying to look actively scum hunting, when most of it is just filled with random votes, and trying to look busy.

Trying to look busy?

And that final comment, that is an obvious statement that anybody can make, it's whether you will actually back this up is another matter.

Of course.

And it's one of those comments that comes across as saying keep me alive, I will show you what I can do.

Indeed I will.

Interesting to see that you enter the game so aggressively.

AlwaysInnocent · Post Post #95 (isolation #15) » Tue Dec 22, 2015 7:47 am

Talking about scumhunting, Kop. You didn't even seem to be doing anything until I voted for you, calling you to come out and play. It didn't take you long to respond, though. Were you lurking?

AlwaysInnocent · Post Post #103 (isolation #16) » Tue Dec 22, 2015 9:23 am

In post 102, Kop wrote:
In post 101, acryon wrote:
In post 90, Kop wrote:I am using information that I have gotten from reading your ISO, and what I gather from this information, you are trying to look actively scum hunting, when most of it is just filled with random votes, and trying to look busy.

And that final comment, that is an obvious statement that anybody can make, it's whether you will actually back this up is another matter. And it's one of those comments that comes across as saying keep me alive, I will show you what I can do.

I'd like to think that too, but is this your first RVS? Did you truly expect everyone to be gung-ho scumhunting from page 3?

This is not my first RVS. I wouldn't class myself as a veteran in mafia games but I have been playing probably over a year and in a lot of games. I've seen scum caught once or twice from random votes and I've seen a few games where we have caught scum on day one.

That is rare (genuinely catching scum by a mistake during RVS).

And getting scum lynched is possible, but chance alone states that the probability of guessing correctly is m/(P-1), where m is the number of scum, and P is the number of players. In a balanced game this is typically around ~30%.

I am not fully expecting to see people going gung-ho but I'd like to see scum hunting to an extent and using the available time we have to at least draw some sort of connections.

You will rarely discover connections on early-D1. However, it is possible to discover anti-connections, i.e., interactions suggesting that two players are unlikely to be scum together.

AlwaysInnocent · Post Post #105 (isolation #17) » Tue Dec 22, 2015 10:22 am

In post 104, Lowell wrote:
fos:
AI
Yos
lucky

AI because I think
lurker-hunting
and meta-discussing RVS is a safe way out. He comes off worse in the exchange with Kop.
Yos, for similar reasons, because listing all the most active players and giving them "town reads" is a too good way to win friends.
Lucky for being a
lurker
and not really playing. And yes, I realize the irony in that reasoning, but I get a vibe from him that he's trying to be the casual guy in the corner who drops in every so often to say inoffensive things.

You accuse me of lurker-hunting (as being a bad thing), and then you FoS a lurker yourself... Hmmm. Interesting.

AlwaysInnocent · Post Post #106 (isolation #18) » Tue Dec 22, 2015 10:35 am

Also, nothing wrong with applying/discussing theory. It is not a "safe way out" but an addition to my ad hoc play.

AlwaysInnocent · Post Post #110 (isolation #19) » Tue Dec 22, 2015 11:32 am

Why are you mixing Dutch and English?

AlwaysInnocent · Post Post #112 (isolation #20) » Tue Dec 22, 2015 11:39 am

Are you using Google Translate or something?

AlwaysInnocent · Post Post #114 (isolation #21) » Tue Dec 22, 2015 11:47 am

That as agressive?
Heb je nooit met TSO eg. met?

Nope.

It didn't sound as if it a kind of fun was.
Reaction testing, eh? Aloowed, eh? Aren't you a bit too survivalistique?

I think it's fine.

Also, why need you decide when we from RVS to scumhunting turn must?

I'm not sure what you mean.

But for that depends on the context part, that was something which sounded so off as a hydrastic replica in the circle of all those fairies whom I've been dancing for ages, you know.

"Sounded as." Very subjective. You're probably reading too much into it.

In post 111, Aneninen wrote:By the way, there's a place in Amsterdam called Duifjessteeg, which means "pigeons' road" and it's slimmer dan 2 metres or so. Have you seen dat?

I don't think so. Why should it matter?

No, we shouldn't ignore Day1. Everything happening now will be crucial on later Dayz.

Yes.

Later.

NBecause you're scum

AlwaysInnocent · Post Post #117 (isolation #22) » Tue Dec 22, 2015 11:52 am

Yes. I am Dutch.

The language is OK. Language is just a tool after all.

AlwaysInnocent · Post Post #123 (isolation #23) » Tue Dec 22, 2015 12:00 pm

In post 119, shaddowez wrote:How do you think you can determine authentic disassociation from distancing?

I try to determine it by weighing the estimated effort and the perceived risk-taking (from the perspective of scum if both were scum). For example, if people are joking with each other during RVS, like BBT with Albert B., then I will just see it as a null-tell. However, if a player seriously pushes for the lynch of another player, and this would have taken a huge risk if both were scum, then I am more inclined to believe that they are not scum together, i.e., that at least one of them is innocent.

AlwaysInnocent · Post Post #127 (isolation #24) » Tue Dec 22, 2015 12:08 pm

VOTE: Lucky2u

I know that we are still transitioning from RVS to scumhunting, but Lucky2u is playing too minimalistic now even for my taste. I want to see more from him.

AlwaysInnocent · Post Post #129 (isolation #25) » Tue Dec 22, 2015 12:17 pm

Taking a back seat. Meh. Not sure what to think of that.

AlwaysInnocent · Post Post #132 (isolation #26) » Tue Dec 22, 2015 12:34 pm

In post 130, roflcopter wrote:kmd and alwaysinnocent are scumbuddies. you heard it here first.

I have my doubts about KMD, but I am curious why you think that. Like I said, trying to find positive connections between scum on D1 often fails. So why do you think you are able to find a connection between me and KMD? For giving up so easily on me? That caught my attention, too. But what does it tell us? Not much.

AlwaysInnocent · Post Post #135 (isolation #27) » Tue Dec 22, 2015 12:46 pm

AlwaysInnocent: There are several of his posts I liked. His post 31 gave me good vibes for some reason. Also it feels like he's really scumhunting.

I'm not really scumhunting yet, though. Like looking specifically for scummy posts. There are some people that seem "interesting" to me, but I am not really hunting them actively yet.

This is basically what I do:

Let P be the set of players in the game and T be the set of players that I townread for some reason.

P' = P - T

Leaving us with P' the set of players minus the set of townread players.

Then I rank P' by weighing inactivity and how scummy those people seem (less so in the beginning, but more so later on). However, it is sometimes not easy to compare players, so they can be ranked equally. It is possible that two or more players rank the highest. Either I let the choice between those players depend on the context (e.g., the wagons), or I choose randomly.

AlwaysInnocent · Post Post #136 (isolation #28) » Tue Dec 22, 2015 12:47 pm

In post 134, roflcopter wrote:
In post 132, AlwaysInnocent wrote:
In post 130, roflcopter wrote:kmd and alwaysinnocent are scumbuddies. you heard it here first.
I have my doubts about KMD, but I am curious why you think that. Like I said, trying to find positive connections between scum on D1 often fails. So why do you think you are able to find a connection between me and KMD? For giving up so easily on me? That caught my attention, too. But what does it tell us? Not much.

scumbuddies confirmed

Kidding, right?

AlwaysInnocent · Post Post #138 (isolation #29) » Tue Dec 22, 2015 12:52 pm

In post 137, roflcopter wrote:if i were a dayvig i would shoot you right now

unvote, vote: always innocent

Well, good that you aren't then, because that would be totally reckless.

BTW. Why me, and not KMD?

AlwaysInnocent · Post Post #141 (isolation #30) » Tue Dec 22, 2015 9:35 pm

In post 139, Lowell wrote:If AI could stop mansplaining how voting works that would be great. I'd vote hiim if someone could tell me why the shaddowz wagon is broken.

I was just explaining my own voting strategy early in the game.

Lowell wrote:Also I forgot to mention rofl is town, even though he's openly trying to derail the lucky wagon. Which, by the way, does the lucky wagon need more juice, or what? Or should I just wait here until it fizzles out?

Why is roflcopter town?

AlwaysInnocent · Post Post #143 (isolation #31) » Tue Dec 22, 2015 10:56 pm

In post 142, BlueBloodedToffee wrote:Point of this post, AI?

I was trying to get a reaction, to see if people are actually serious or not.

AlwaysInnocent · Post Post #147 (isolation #32) » Tue Dec 22, 2015 11:48 pm

In post 145, BlueBloodedToffee wrote:What do you think it means?

Not sure yet. It just caught my attention.

BlueBloodedToffee wrote:There most definitely is. Scum would happily spend most of their time posting about theory because it distracts from actually scum hunting. Both your posting and Kop's posting around this subject makes me feel uneasy.

I love theory, so I will keep including theory in my games, regardless of alignment. If other people want to play without theory, then that is up to them. I, however, refuse to play without theory. I don't play chess without theory either.

I also thought that I had explained that it was an addition to my ad hoc play. I don't spend most of my time posting about theory alone. Certainly not later in the game, but not even now.

AlwaysInnocent · Post Post #150 (isolation #33) » Wed Dec 23, 2015 12:27 am

In post 148, BlueBloodedToffee wrote:What took you so long to vote Lucky? Why wait for somebody else to do it first?

Um. What? I was already considering him, by looking at the activity overview. Previously I voted Kop for his lack of contributions, which forced him out of his shell. Furthermore, Lucky said that he was going to take a backseat in the game, which I don't like. Being on a wagon greater than size 1 usually helps to push players to contribute more.

Second time you have done this in a short space of time. You seem to latch onto other people's thoughts/opinions whilst trying to make them look like your own. (The Lucky vote and now this sudden suspicion of Kmd which was previously nowhere to be found.)

Not really. I always find it at least a little strange when someone townreads me so early in the game. I didn't pay too much attention to it yet, since I prefer to see more posts before I actually start to seriously suspect someone. It is because of the ridiculous idea that KMD and me are scum buddies (based on what?) that I felt it was necessary to say something about KMD.

Also, you do know that Mafia is a social game, right? People influence each other and create wagons.

By the way, how can you be convinced by an empty one-liner about two players being scum buddies this early in the game? How does that make someone town?

AlwaysInnocent · Post Post #152 (isolation #34) » Wed Dec 23, 2015 1:19 am

My initial vote for BBT was pretty much RVS. I just felt like voting for him because of this post:

Because it was all too similar. Scum trying to blend in by copying other confirms and trying not to stand out.

And, of course, he was the one standing out. However, this is not necessarily alignment indicative, but I did feel like voting for him because of it. So it wasn't any better than a random vote.

I don't like how BBT townreads random people for empty one-liners, though. While criticizing me for using theory and leaving no stone unturned. It seems inconsistent.

I don't think roflcopter is "super-town" by the way. His strong positions are based on very little. I wouldn't vote for him, but I'm not yet convinced he is town. He threatened to shoot me this early if he were a vigilante, which is just reckless and bad play (if it was a serious and not just to threaten me).

AlwaysInnocent · Post Post #155 (isolation #35) » Wed Dec 23, 2015 2:22 am

In post 154, Yosarian2 wrote:
In post 152, AlwaysInnocent wrote:

I don't think roflcopter is "super-town" by the way. His strong positions are based on very little. I wouldn't vote for him, but I'm not yet convinced he is town. He threatened to shoot me this early if he were a vigilante, which is just reckless and bad play (if it was a serious and not just to threaten me).

A little context here: rofl is an alt of a long-time poster. He uses the rofl alt when he wants to play with a certain playstyle; hyperagressive, short posts, bloodthirsty without explaining anything, lynches without warning. Basically the "baby jesus" or "internet stranger" playstyle, although probably half of you don't remember those players. And as a playstyle, it works well for him.

In that context, his posts so far look good to me.

I will say, though, that he can play like this as scum just as well, and he's very skilled at it, so while I have a town read on him at the moment, I very easily could be wrong, he is very tricksy.

So he is manipulating his meta so that people excuse him for his behavior even when he is scum. Just great.

AlwaysInnocent · Post Post #159 (isolation #36) » Wed Dec 23, 2015 3:43 am

In post 156, Yosarian2 wrote:
In post 155, AlwaysInnocent wrote:So he is manipulating his meta so that people excuse him for his behavior even when he is scum. Just great.

I wouldn't say that. The IS playstyle is an effective one as town as well, if you're good at it. And I don't think it's that hard to get a read on someone using it.

More like, he wanted to try something different without people using his previous meta to attack him, so he made an alt and kept it secret for a while. Nothing wrong with that

Oh, sure. Nothing wrong with an alt. It is just that I see his one-liners and wonder why people think that's so telling.

AlwaysInnocent · Post Post #165 (isolation #37) » Wed Dec 23, 2015 6:52 am

BBT, don't twist my words. I didn't say that you should have known that.

It makes perfect sense to hunt for lurkers early D1. Mainly to pressure them to become more active, making it easier to read them.

But yes, it is possible for scum to hide behind lurker hunting. That doesn't make the method less valid though.

AlwaysInnocent · Post Post #167 (isolation #38) » Wed Dec 23, 2015 7:29 am

Making plans for D2 already without any flips? That is not very town-like.

AlwaysInnocent · Post Post #171 (isolation #39) » Wed Dec 23, 2015 7:38 am

In post 169, roflcopter wrote:holy shit always innocent could not be more obvious scum please lets just lynch him already

Stop tunneling. It is the primary cause of shitty play.

Still nothing but empty one-liners. You haven't explained anything. You are just yelling that I am scum. That's easy. Anyone can do that.

AlwaysInnocent · Post Post #177 (isolation #40) » Wed Dec 23, 2015 8:04 am

In post 172, roflcopter wrote:die scum die

pew pew lazer beams

Ugh.

roflcopter wrote:lowell, kop, shadow and toffee are all town and should all climb aboard the always innocent wagon with me for great justice

Yes. Listen to the guy without any arguments at all.

I really hope for your sake that this is part of some "strategy" to find scum. If you are serious, then your play is terrible. I fear the latter.

Or you are scum, of course.

AlwaysInnocent · Post Post #180 (isolation #41) » Wed Dec 23, 2015 8:14 am

In post 178, roflcopter wrote:the reason this playstyle is effective is because scum freak right out when they can't figure out what they've done wrong

end lesson

Effective you say. I am going to save this post for later.

AlwaysInnocent · Post Post #183 (isolation #42) » Wed Dec 23, 2015 8:33 am

I

think

roflcopter is town. I think it is hard to fake this kind of... well... bad play.

"Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity."

(Not saying that roflcopter is stupid. I think he is a smart guy, but his overconfidence causes stupidity in this case. He does not seem to consider the possibility that I am genuinely annoyed as town.)

AlwaysInnocent · Post Post #186 (isolation #43) » Wed Dec 23, 2015 8:52 am

In post 184, Lowell wrote:I think I may almost be coming around to AI being town? His offputting earnestness might not be an act.

Can we talk about ABR? Why is he town? I feel like we had a modest wagon that fizzled out.

Obviously there is no indication that Albert B. is town. Anyone who claims otherwise is full of shit.

Just look at his ISO. There is no tell on him whatsoever. Except that he is a lurker.

AlwaysInnocent · Post Post #187 (isolation #44) » Wed Dec 23, 2015 9:01 am

Never mind Lucky... I found someone better.

UNVOTE: Lucky

VOTE: Albert B.

Albert, come play with us.

AlwaysInnocent · Post Post #193 (isolation #45) » Wed Dec 23, 2015 11:37 am

In post 175, Aneninen wrote:I wouldn't describe ABR's play I know in a way like that. In spite of it, that seems to be the town-ABR I've seen before.

There are no tells on Albert B. yet. Anyone who claims otherwise is bullshitting.

Not essentially. Scum-scum puppetshows do exist.

I never said they didn't exist. I am talking about probabilities.

And you're speculating too much.

No, I'm not. This is common sense.

Are you just voting any wagon gains momentum?
I don't think we're still in the transition of RVS–scumhunting.

I am voting for lurkers atm.

AlwaysInnocent, 135 – again, speculating instead of scumhunting.

That's not speculating. That's theoretically describing a rational strategy for early-D1.

This last bit tells me that KMD's not scum but AlwaysInnocent is. Or at least, scums often try to "lead" players to their suspected buddy if they know the buddy-guess is wrong.

What did you say about speculation again?

^^
That!
BBT could be town, I guess. I know those "interrogative BBT-catchups".

It doesn't take much to convince you.

Hhhhhhhhhh
BBT, I guess you remember JK9 – and everything I did there as scum. ^_^

I have no idea what you are talking about, but I assume you used theory as scum. Good for you.

Your logic is bad and you should feel bad. ^_^

Actually, he is correct.

Fighting a lurker instead of an active player is a thing scums often do. (Actually I did the same in another C9 game. The first scum-game on MafiaScum ever.)

Because luring out lurkers certainly has no value, right?

AlwaysInnocent · Post Post #194 (isolation #46) » Wed Dec 23, 2015 11:41 am

Yosarian, why is KMD town? She hasn't done anything.

AlwaysInnocent · Post Post #196 (isolation #47) » Wed Dec 23, 2015 11:46 am

Surely there are players that are more town-leaning than KMD? It just seems off.

AlwaysInnocent · Post Post #208 (isolation #48) » Thu Dec 24, 2015 12:54 am

AlwaysInnocent seems too worried about roflcopter's read on him.

No. I am not worried about his read. I am worried about his reckless call for other people to lynch me, being overconfident that I am scum (because he mistakenly believes that only scum will react in a certain way to his posts). That is what concerns (and annoys) me.

AlwaysInnocent · Post Post #211 (isolation #49) » Thu Dec 24, 2015 2:02 am

Yes. Acryon, I believe that for now.

AlwaysInnocent · Post Post #216 (isolation #50) » Thu Dec 24, 2015 4:19 am

If Yosarian is town, then BBT might indeed be scum.

AlwaysInnocent · Post Post #219 (isolation #51) » Thu Dec 24, 2015 4:37 am

I don't know why he townreads me. For many people I seem to play scummy. Too many for all of them to be scum. So yeah. Don't know.

AlwaysInnocent · Post Post #221 (isolation #52) » Thu Dec 24, 2015 4:43 am

In post 218, Lowell wrote:
In post 216, AlwaysInnocent wrote:If Yosarian is town, then BBT might indeed be scum.

Why? I don't see it. And are you saying you think yos is town, or not?

Nope. I don't know about Yosarian. It seems odd that he townreads me so easily. Almost as if he is buddying me.

But

if

he is town, then we should have a look at BBT.

AlwaysInnocent · Post Post #222 (isolation #53) » Thu Dec 24, 2015 4:52 am

In post 220, roflcopter wrote:lowell please just vote for alwaysinnocent with me. seriously, we can lynch yos tomorrow. anen is right that he's investigation bait. i'm also nostalgic and want more than one game day of yosarian2 even if he's going to play the take-my-ball-and-go-home card.

Stop being so foolish. It's going to lose us the game. Especially if you keep this up.

AlwaysInnocent · Post Post #224 (isolation #54) » Thu Dec 24, 2015 4:56 am

Yes. That is how it is.

AlwaysInnocent · Post Post #225 (isolation #55) » Thu Dec 24, 2015 4:59 am

Roflcopter is being reckless (to the point of being annoying and foolish). Yosarian seems to play a very safe game however.

AlwaysInnocent · Post Post #227 (isolation #56) » Thu Dec 24, 2015 5:10 am

I don't really have scumreads at this point. However if I have to make a guess, then scum could be among these people:

BBT
Albert B.
KMD
Yosarian

AlwaysInnocent · Post Post #232 (isolation #57) » Thu Dec 24, 2015 5:42 am

No. That is absolutely not the same thing.

Why would Yosarian buddy me? Dunno. Perhaps he thinks I am gullible.

AlwaysInnocent · Post Post #234 (isolation #58) » Thu Dec 24, 2015 5:55 am

I rarely make a complete list on D1.

AlwaysInnocent · Post Post #238 (isolation #59) » Thu Dec 24, 2015 6:11 am

Yes. I am trying to pressure him because he was lurking.

AlwaysInnocent · Post Post #244 (isolation #60) » Thu Dec 24, 2015 8:26 am

Wishing people happy holidays. Typically what scum would do to appear town.

AlwaysInnocent · Post Post #249 (isolation #61) » Thu Dec 24, 2015 10:37 am

In post 248, Albert B. Rampage wrote:My scum pool is Lowell and Lucky.

Why?

AlwaysInnocent · Post Post #251 (isolation #62) » Thu Dec 24, 2015 10:54 am

In post 250, Albert B. Rampage wrote:The ghosts of christmas past told me

That's what all scum say during the holidays.

AlwaysInnocent · Post Post #253 (isolation #63) » Thu Dec 24, 2015 11:18 am

In post 252, Aneninen wrote:
In post 244, AlwaysInnocent wrote:Wishing people happy holidays. Typically what scum would do to appear town.

What the #&@%! does that have to do with any alignments?!

Just a silly joke. Relax.

AlwaysInnocent · Post Post #254 (isolation #64) » Thu Dec 24, 2015 11:19 am

Happy holidays by the way.

AlwaysInnocent · Post Post #258 (isolation #65) » Thu Dec 24, 2015 12:12 pm

In post 256, Yosarian2 wrote:Yup, Albert is town. Good to know.

How do you know?

AlwaysInnocent · Post Post #264 (isolation #66) » Fri Dec 25, 2015 12:26 am

I agree with Lowell. Aneninen might be town. At least I will not consider him very seriously as scum.

AlwaysInnocent · Post Post #265 (isolation #67) » Fri Dec 25, 2015 12:26 am

If BBT is indeed town, then it is likely that Yosarian is scum.

AlwaysInnocent · Post Post #267 (isolation #68) » Fri Dec 25, 2015 2:22 am

Why is Yosarian town?

AlwaysInnocent · Post Post #270 (isolation #69) » Fri Dec 25, 2015 4:56 am

This is my current read list, represented as a ranking. I don't think it is perfectly accurate yet, but this is what I currently make of it. From town to fence-scum:

{AlwaysInnocent} (town)
{Roflcopter} (town-leaning)
{Lowell, Shaddowez} (fence-town)
{Aneninen} (fence-townish)
{Kop, Texcat, Acryon, Lucky2u} (null)
{KMD, Albert B., BBT, Yosarian} (fence-scum)

AlwaysInnocent · Post Post #272 (isolation #70) » Fri Dec 25, 2015 5:08 am

Yes, according to you. Your read list is the opposite of mine for some players. You won't explain your reads, so I don't know why I should revise my reads atm. You need to give reasons if you want to convince me that you are right.

AlwaysInnocent · Post Post #274 (isolation #71) » Fri Dec 25, 2015 5:19 am

Lol. Why?

AlwaysInnocent · Post Post #277 (isolation #72) » Fri Dec 25, 2015 6:31 am

In post 276, Lucky2u wrote:
In post 138, AlwaysInnocent wrote:
In post 137, roflcopter wrote:if i were a dayvig i would shoot you right now

unvote, vote: always innocent
Well, good that you aren't then, because that would be totally reckless.

BTW. Why me, and not KMD?

The "why me and not KMD" part is kind of a scummy misdirection in the response to this threat here.

Or it's a question trying to understand a player's motivation.

AlwaysInnocent · Post Post #291 (isolation #73) » Fri Dec 25, 2015 7:28 am

That doesn't make too much sense. Especially in connection with the other post from you, quoted above.

Why? I simply don't know who is scum or town yet. When I say {A, B}, it means that I do not know whether A or B is more scummy than the other (ignoring any associations).

AlwaysInnocent · Post Post #293 (isolation #74) » Fri Dec 25, 2015 7:46 am

Hm. Not sure why I thought Lowell was fence-town. After having re-read his ISO, he seems to be more of a lurker than I thought. I am placing him as fence-scum for now.

AlwaysInnocent · Post Post #294 (isolation #75) » Fri Dec 25, 2015 7:47 am

Meh. Albert B. might not be scum.

AlwaysInnocent · Post Post #295 (isolation #76) » Fri Dec 25, 2015 7:48 am

UNVOTE: Albert B.

AlwaysInnocent · Post Post #297 (isolation #77) » Fri Dec 25, 2015 7:51 am

In post 296, Lucky2u wrote:Seeing as he was once a fence town for you, why not read him as null now? or his lurking an auto scum read for you?

Why do you care?

AlwaysInnocent · Post Post #299 (isolation #78) » Fri Dec 25, 2015 8:08 am

I don't really like that vote.

AlwaysInnocent · Post Post #301 (isolation #79) » Fri Dec 25, 2015 8:12 am

In post 300, Lucky2u wrote:why do I care?

1. Because I don't like being lynched.
2. The vote seems somewhat opportunistic.

When I asked you why you cared about my revised read on Lowell, I really meant to ask why you cared. Are you defending him?

AlwaysInnocent · Post Post #303 (isolation #80) » Fri Dec 25, 2015 8:27 am

In post 302, Lucky2u wrote:how is it opportunistic?

I'm an easy target.

I asked you a question and you answered with a question about my question. That's scum misdirection. So do you feel like answering now?

He is actively lurking. That concerns me.

AlwaysInnocent · Post Post #304 (isolation #81) » Fri Dec 25, 2015 11:35 am

VOTE: KMD

AlwaysInnocent · Post Post #319 (isolation #82) » Sat Dec 26, 2015 1:15 am

I don't agree. If you look at the context, I don't think it's unreasonable at all to not assume that a veteran player is posting something because they are being "stupid". If you want to clear a new player based on the premise of them not understanding a situation, then that's a little more passable, but I don't think it's ridiculous to assume that a veteran player is less likely to play stupidly.

Except when they become overconfident because they are more experienced. It happens all the time. I have seen new players play better than experienced players simply because new players are more self-conscious and do not assume that they are right because of minor things.

AlwaysInnocent · Post Post #323 (isolation #83) » Sat Dec 26, 2015 2:12 am

You seem to be scumreading Yos anyway. Why does BBT being town make Yos scum?

Since BBT is eager to lynch Yosarian, it seems.

^Guys, remember what I said about AlwaysInnocent's lurker hunt getting to the point of being too calculated. Well, now a guy whose posts he liked is scum for lurking. No one can honestly think the game is as simple as those who post are town and those who don't are scum.

Right. No one thinks that. Not even me. It is too simple, indeed.

AlwaysInnocent · Post Post #324 (isolation #84) » Sat Dec 26, 2015 2:14 am

And because I had slight scumreads on both of them, in case you want to take my comments out of context again.

AlwaysInnocent · Post Post #331 (isolation #85) » Sat Dec 26, 2015 5:39 am

In post 330, roflcopter wrote:ok at this point i could lynch either ai or yos today, nostalgia be damned. they're both scum.

How about Yosarian + KMD?

AlwaysInnocent · Post Post #339 (isolation #86) » Sat Dec 26, 2015 6:56 am

In post 337, roflcopter wrote:hey always innocent, at what point is the game mature enough for you to have scumreads instead of just scum-leans, equivocations and lurker votes?

I'm getting there. I am just preventing the mistakes you make, by being overconfident about players.

AlwaysInnocent · Post Post #351 (isolation #87) » Sat Dec 26, 2015 7:49 am

In post 347, roflcopter wrote:ai, come back to your bus vote on yos and i'll give you a townie brownie!

If I get lots of townie points, then I will bus everyone you want.

VOTE: Yosarian

AlwaysInnocent · Post Post #357 (isolation #88) » Sat Dec 26, 2015 9:01 am

In post 355, Lucky2u wrote:
In post 319, AlwaysInnocent wrote:
I don't agree. If you look at the context, I don't think it's unreasonable at all to not assume that a veteran player is posting something because they are being "stupid". If you want to clear a new player based on the premise of them not understanding a situation, then that's a little more passable, but I don't think it's ridiculous to assume that a veteran player is less likely to play stupidly.
Except when they become overconfident because they are more experienced. It happens all the time. I have seen new players play better than experienced players simply because new players are more self-conscious and do not assume that they are right because of minor things.

I have experianced that exact same thing when I played a newbie game as an SE and me and the IC were scum and got lynched day 1 and 2. However... does that apply here?

Not the newbie part, but the overconfidence, yeah.

AlwaysInnocent · Post Post #383 (isolation #89) » Sun Dec 27, 2015 12:26 am

bus?
BUS?

This is the second joke that you missed. Please don't insult my intelligence.

AlwaysInnocent · Post Post #386 (isolation #90) » Sun Dec 27, 2015 12:43 am

You're being silly, Aneninen, and you're insulting my intelligence.

I don't need your advise on how to tell jokes.

Hint: Context. Read what I was responding to.

AlwaysInnocent · Post Post #388 (isolation #91) » Sun Dec 27, 2015 12:48 am

In post 387, Aneninen wrote:
In post 385, BlueBloodedToffee wrote:Anen, why won't you join the Yos wagon?

Originally I thought he's town because of [because of Site Rules I'm not allowed to explain it].
However, behind some of his later posts I can imagine a scum-mindset easily
if
he's scum with AI.
That if prevents me joining the wagon.

Post-edit.
AI, I have never insulted your intelligence. I'm scumreading you.

You're insulting my intelligence if you think I am stupid enough to unintentionally drop the word "bus" while I am scum.

AlwaysInnocent · Post Post #416 (isolation #92) » Sun Dec 27, 2015 7:45 am

In post 415, roflcopter wrote:
unvote, vote: always innocent

approximately one bajillion things are going on, and there's a pile of people scumreading him for all sorts of reasons at this point, and ai is arguing about whether he's making jokes instead of engaging with any of it.

It's mostly crap.

AlwaysInnocent · Post Post #419 (isolation #93) » Sun Dec 27, 2015 9:36 am

In post 417, Yosarian2 wrote:
In post 383, AlwaysInnocent wrote:
bus?
BUS?
This is the second joke that you missed. Please don't insult my intelligence.

The problem is, I don't know if you would make that joke if you actually thought i was scum. You clearly care a lot about how you look, so if you actually thought I was going to flip scum, you would be worried that people think you and I are connected.

Insead, you're joking about it, which really only makes sense if you already know I'm going to flip town. Even when you're trying to lynch me. Putting the 5th vote on a bad wagon on me for no reason in fact.

Yeah. Between this and the KMD post, town read on AI is officially dead.

Actually, I thought you were pretty scummy. I wasn't townreading you. I was reading you as possible scum.

My joke was actually directed at roflcopter's ridiculous claim that we are scum buddies and that I must be bussing you if I am voting for you.

AlwaysInnocent · Post Post #426 (isolation #94) » Sun Dec 27, 2015 10:38 pm

In post 420, Yosarian2 wrote:
In post 419, AlwaysInnocent wrote:
My joke was actually directed at roflcopter's ridiculous claim that we are scum buddies and that I must be bussing you if I am voting for you.

I just don't know if you would really be that blase about that if you really believed i was going to flip scum. Makes me wonder if you are scum.

If being blase makes me scummy, then I guess I understand why people keep thinking I am scum when I am town.

If you are scum, then your play makes more sense. In that case, you would want to play up the idea that we are linked, and you would want to lynch me. That way when I flip town the case against you kind of collapses.

No, it doesn't. People will find something new to frame me with.

If I were scum and you are town, I would have made better use of you anyway. I probably wouldn't have made that joke either, since I probably would have been more careful. People always take these jokes the wrong way.

Anyway, if you are town, then perhaps we have been looking at the wrong people. What do you think about Aneninen? I am starting to think that he knows that I am the VI in this game and picks an easy target, when he probably should know better if he were town.

AlwaysInnocent · Post Post #428 (isolation #95) » Sun Dec 27, 2015 10:48 pm

In post 427, Aneninen wrote:
In post 426, AlwaysInnocent wrote:Anyway, if you are town, then perhaps we have been looking at the wrong people. What do you think about Aneninen? I am starting to think that he knows that I am the VI in this game and picks an easy target, when he probably should know better if he were town.

I've never thought you'd be a VI.
Calling yourself the easy target, on the other hand, while Yos is the leading wagon is pigeon poop.

As a matter of fact, I don't really get why I'm
that
town. I mean, compared to the effort I've made so far, there are too many townreads on me. Which means, there must be at least one scum amongst those players.

Like who?

AlwaysInnocent · Post Post #430 (isolation #96) » Sun Dec 27, 2015 10:58 pm

Meh. I don't know about Yosarian anymore. After skimming through his ISO a bit, my impression of him is different. Perhaps I was too paranoid when he was townreading me.

UNVOTE: Yosarian

AlwaysInnocent · Post Post #431 (isolation #97) » Sun Dec 27, 2015 11:00 pm

If Yosarian is town, was BBT framing him, to get rid of an experienced player on D1 without having to NK him?

Whatever is the case, one of them (BBT or Yosarian) is likely town.

AlwaysInnocent · Post Post #435 (isolation #98) » Mon Dec 28, 2015 4:14 am

In post 434, roflcopter wrote:stop using the i'm an easy target defense ai, if you were an easy target you'd be lynched by now

Could you tell me what your read on Aneninen is?

AlwaysInnocent · Post Post #439 (isolation #99) » Mon Dec 28, 2015 4:56 am

Lowell wrote:
unvote

VOTE: AlwaysInnocent

I still think yos might be the better play (given the yos/AI interactions earlier) but it's time to apply pressure on AI. Also, Anen and rofl are my two strongest townreads, so I'm comfortable with this.

Why is Aneninen a strong townread?

In post 438, Yosarian2 wrote:The most notable thing Aneninen's done so far is go way out of his way to defend BTT. He even took the time to find links to another game and stuff.

If BTT is town, I can't really see scum-Anen acting like that.

If BTT is scum, maybe I'll take another look at Anen. But I think that the correct play is to lynch BTT first and then recalibrate.

Honestly, even assuming BTT does flip scum, I'm still not really seeing hypo-Anen-scum go as far as he did in defending him when he wasn't in that much real danger, but I hate to ever call "defending a scum" as a town tell.

Classic buddying.

AlwaysInnocent · Post Post #441 (isolation #100) » Mon Dec 28, 2015 5:15 am

In post 440, Yosarian2 wrote:I guess? I donno, if me and BTT are both town wouldn't hypo-Anen-scum just let us fight?

Not sure. Scum-Anen might want to control the flow of the discussion, to prevent town-BBT and town-Yosarian from trusting each other, even if they don't vote for each other. Or he could buddy one of them in the process.

AlwaysInnocent · Post Post #443 (isolation #101) » Mon Dec 28, 2015 5:46 am

I think the scum can be found in this pool:

{Kmd, Lowell, Kop, Lucky} and possibly {Aneninen}.

AlwaysInnocent · Post Post #444 (isolation #102) » Mon Dec 28, 2015 5:47 am

Seriously doubting that Yosarian is scum.

AlwaysInnocent · Post Post #446 (isolation #103) » Mon Dec 28, 2015 6:18 am

I will.

AlwaysInnocent · Mon Dec 28, 2015 10:52 am

In post 455, texcat wrote:
In post 375, Albert B. Rampage wrote:Because BBT and Yosarian are both doing pro-town things. They are probably wrong, but still doing pro-town things.

I don't think BBT's total focus on Yos is pro-town. Yos, at least, is commenting on others.

In post 443, AlwaysInnocent wrote:I think the scum can be found in this pool:

{Kmd, Lowell, Kop, Lucky} and possibly {Aneninen}.

All of the scum? Does this mean you are town reading the rest of us?

Sort of.

AlwaysInnocent · Mon Dec 28, 2015 10:54 am

I kind of agree with Shaddowez there, so I will be joining the Lowell wagon.

VOTE: Lowell

AlwaysInnocent · Post Post #479 (isolation #106) » Wed Dec 30, 2015 1:47 am

In post 445, Aneninen wrote:
In post 443, AlwaysInnocent wrote:I think the scum can be found in this pool:
{Kmd, Lowell, Kop, Lucky} and possibly {Aneninen}.

This, alongside with your unvote looks important.
Give me some details, please!

I will give details later tonight. I don't have much time now.

Texcat seems town to me.

If I am wrong about Lowell, then Kop could be scum. I don't think they are

both

scum.

AlwaysInnocent · Post Post #504 (isolation #107) » Thu Dec 31, 2015 5:51 am

Roflcopter, if you are somehow scum, then this is a really badass way to get me lynched.

Otherwise it is just terrible.

AlwaysInnocent · Post Post #506 (isolation #108) » Thu Dec 31, 2015 5:57 am

Yeah. If...

AlwaysInnocent · Post Post #508 (isolation #109) » Thu Dec 31, 2015 6:09 am

Yeah. From my POV. Which is why I say it is terrible.

AlwaysInnocent · Fri Jan 01, 2016 10:14 am

In post 534, Albert B. Rampage wrote:BBT is scum. This is all too familiar to his play in Team Mafia.

Are you serious, Albert B.?

This post makes me think you are town, btw.

Do you still believe Yosarian is town?

AlwaysInnocent · Fri Jan 01, 2016 11:42 am

In post 537, Albert B. Rampage wrote:Ya

At least one thing is pretty much certain now: BBT and Yosarian cannot be scum buddies.

AlwaysInnocent · Post Post #558 (isolation #112) » Sat Jan 02, 2016 2:36 am

In post 546, roflcopter wrote:dumb stuff is happening and people should be voting for ai

Dumb stuff is happening? Please reflect back on this statement when I flip town.

AlwaysInnocent · Post Post #560 (isolation #113) » Sat Jan 02, 2016 5:14 am

You're ignoring everyone else basically. Sure, you ask people questions, but it seems that you are only interested in Yosarian as scum. You are not even interested in me. Possibly because you think it is unnecessary to jump on my wagon, since roflcopter invites everyone to vote for me.

AlwaysInnocent · Post Post #561 (isolation #114) » Sat Jan 02, 2016 5:16 am

But it doesn't seem that you care about sorting me out, at all. You seem content with this situation, and use the situation to cast further suspicion on Yosarian.

Not sure what to make of it.

AlwaysInnocent · Post Post #582 (isolation #115) » Sun Jan 03, 2016 2:50 am

If I get lynched, I want Roflcopter to reflect back on his tunneling and check what he missed because he was tunneling me. I think that there is at least one scum on my wagon.

He should also realize how easy it becomes for scum to jump on my wagon if he invites (no, pushes) everyone to do so. It makes it easy for scum to hide in the crowd while Roflcopter carries the responsibility of my lynch.

AlwaysInnocent · Post Post #583 (isolation #116) » Sun Jan 03, 2016 2:55 am

By the way, I find it extremely hard to read BBT. He seems scummy at times, but I feel that if he really is scum, he won't give himself away so easily. It will be hard to pin him down on something.

AlwaysInnocent · Post Post #588 (isolation #117) » Sun Jan 03, 2016 8:17 am

he AtE hugely (when he started talking about how he always gets mislynched) and then this changed into a sudden confidence that he would not be getting lynched.

Yes, that was clearly a contradiction.

But how it is an appeal to emotion? It is an appeal to meta, not emotion IMO.

AlwaysInnocent · Mon Jan 04, 2016 12:36 am

Roflcopter thinks I am scum buddies with everyone, revising this all the time. Yet he never bothers to question his read on me.

AlwaysInnocent · Post Post #604 (isolation #119) » Mon Jan 04, 2016 2:01 am

Lowell, it is possible if there are only two scum and I am one of them (not true though). But the probability of two major scum wagons on D2 is extremely small.

AlwaysInnocent · Post Post #605 (isolation #120) » Mon Jan 04, 2016 2:01 am

D1 sorry.

AlwaysInnocent · Mon Jan 04, 2016 10:43 am

Why am I not town, Acryon?

AlwaysInnocent · Mon Jan 04, 2016 11:38 am

In post 619, acryon wrote:
In post 618, roflcopter wrote:acryon y u no vote for ai?

Bad experiences with people quickhammering.

This post makes me think you are town.

Well played if you are scum, though.

AlwaysInnocent · Post Post #626 (isolation #123) » Mon Jan 04, 2016 9:15 pm

Aneninen and BBT scum buddies? Aneninen sure is buddying BBT hard.

AlwaysInnocent · Post Post #629 (isolation #124) » Mon Jan 04, 2016 9:54 pm

In post 627, Aneninen wrote:Is that all?

What about this?

In post 443, AlwaysInnocent wrote:I think the scum can be found in this pool:
{Kmd, Lowell, Kop, Lucky} and possibly {Aneninen}.

I feel like Leo.
He's never got an Oscar.
I've never got an answer for my question.

That's because you are scum and I am lazy.

It is typical for scum to keep nagging about some question that needs to be answered, even though you aren't truly interested.

AlwaysInnocent · Post Post #632 (isolation #125) » Tue Jan 05, 2016 1:32 am

BBT, there is no need for Aneninen to lynch town-you, since he is already on my wagon. I find this townread extremely odd.

AlwaysInnocent · Post Post #634 (isolation #126) » Tue Jan 05, 2016 1:51 am

In post 633, BlueBloodedToffee wrote:That's because you don't know the history between the two of us.

Nice excuse. I am going to use that in my next scum game.

AlwaysInnocent · Post Post #638 (isolation #127) » Tue Jan 05, 2016 4:42 am

Fuck this shit.

VOTE: BBT

AlwaysInnocent · Post Post #641 (isolation #128) » Tue Jan 05, 2016 7:15 am

Powerlynched? I prefer a hyperlynch.

Also you are scum.

AlwaysInnocent · Post Post #646 (isolation #129) » Tue Jan 05, 2016 8:39 am

In post 643, Yosarian2 wrote:I also agree with AI that BBT's read on Anen seems strange. AI is still the biggest wagon; if AI flips town, Anen keeping his vote on AI instead of moving it isnt a town tell. "If anen was scum he'd vote me" doesn't really make sense in this situation.

^Remember this when Roflcopter mislynches me. Nope, not WIFOM. (Useless as WIFOM, anyway.)

AlwaysInnocent · Post Post #651 (isolation #130) » Tue Jan 05, 2016 1:12 pm

In post 648, roflcopter wrote:we're not letting ai live through this day nope not no way not no how

I don't even know why I am townreading you anymore. Would you really be so obviously mislynching me if you were scum? It seems so unlikely, but at the same time your unwillingness to see it makes me doubt myself at times.

AlwaysInnocent · Post Post #652 (isolation #131) » Tue Jan 05, 2016 1:14 pm

Playing sure is hard when a lot of attacks are concentrated on one person.

There must be scum behind this. Mark my words.

My prediction is that at least one scum is on my wagon (e.g., Aneninen), and one scum is pretending that I am invisible (e.g., BBT).

AlwaysInnocent · Post Post #654 (isolation #132) » Tue Jan 05, 2016 1:18 pm

If Roflcopter is indeed town, then his overconfidence on his read on me is being used by scum to go unnoticed.

Sure, I say that Aneninen is scum, but do people really care about what I think? No. Many people seem to think I am scum. So in that sense Aneninen goes "unnoticed".

AlwaysInnocent · Post Post #655 (isolation #133) » Tue Jan 05, 2016 1:19 pm

Or Lucky, of course.

AlwaysInnocent · Post Post #656 (isolation #134) » Tue Jan 05, 2016 1:24 pm

Yosarian and KMD still seem somewhat scummy to me, so I am probably misreading some people, since I am also scumreading BBT, Aneninen, Lucky and Lowell. (After all, there cannot be more than 3 scum.)

This probably has a lot to do with OMGUS, but since I know I am town (I don't care what you think anymore; you are going to lynch me anyway), I find it hard to believe that all town players make the same mistake. At least one scum is trying to set me up. I know it for sure.

AlwaysInnocent · Post Post #657 (isolation #135) » Tue Jan 05, 2016 1:26 pm

But, if BBT is scum (this guy is hard too read), then I assume that Yosarian is town. I don't agree with his hypothetical scum team, but perhaps it is genuine.

AlwaysInnocent · Post Post #660 (isolation #136) » Tue Jan 05, 2016 1:28 pm

In post 658, Yosarian2 wrote:If BTT is scum, Anen is likely town. Because if BTT is scum, then that thing where BTT townread Anen out of nowhere for a terrible reason while there was no pressure on Anen a few pages ago was probably an attempt to buddy. I doubt a scum would point a giant arrow at their partner like that right after they get into serious trouble.

I don't know. I find it hard to believe that town-Aneninen would townread scum-BBT for some superficial posts (and stick by it), especially given their history.

AlwaysInnocent · Post Post #661 (isolation #137) » Tue Jan 05, 2016 1:30 pm

In post 659, Yosarian2 wrote:Also, I'd be pretty surprised if AI actually flipped scum at this point. It's not impossible, but I'm not expecting it.

If you are town too, then this means we are probably both being framed pretty hard. It would explain a lot.

AlwaysInnocent · Post Post #662 (isolation #138) » Tue Jan 05, 2016 1:32 pm

I am going to assume you are town for the time being. I want to focus on the people framing me. Scum only benefit from this chaos, it seems.

AlwaysInnocent · Post Post #663 (isolation #139) » Tue Jan 05, 2016 1:46 pm

I was close to giving up. It felt like my lynch was inevitable, no matter what I would do. It still seems like it, but I am not going down without a fight. Yeah, it sounds more heroic than it is, but it is how I currently experience it. I could give up, or give it my all before my lynch. Perhaps it can be prevented, and if not, then the town at least has some more information.

The key to preventing my mislynch is Roflcopter (assuming he is town). If he could somehow see that I am town, then I think I would be saved. But he doesn't listen to me. Everything I say is interpreted as scummy by him. Why am I not scumreading him? It just seems unlikely. Yeah, WIFOM, and what not, but on D1 I don't think WIFOM is necessary and I therefore consider it less likely that this is done for that purpose.

AlwaysInnocent · Post Post #669 (isolation #140) » Wed Jan 06, 2016 2:34 am

This looks an awful lot like a townslip to me.

Not really...

AlwaysInnocent · Post Post #672 (isolation #141) » Wed Jan 06, 2016 2:36 am

In post 671, acryon wrote: Now I think it is almost
definitely
a townslip.

Still not really.

AlwaysInnocent · Post Post #673 (isolation #142) » Wed Jan 06, 2016 2:37 am

Why is Aneninen town because of that?

AlwaysInnocent · Post Post #680 (isolation #143) » Wed Jan 06, 2016 2:41 am

In post 675, acryon wrote:
In post 673, AlwaysInnocent wrote:Why is Aneninen town because of that?

I was talking about you.

But you were quoting Aneninen. Never mind.

I don't even know why my post was inaccurate. I have checked the setup again and I only count 3 Mafia max. What am I missing?

AlwaysInnocent · Post Post #685 (isolation #144) » Wed Jan 06, 2016 2:49 am

Yes, but you can't really make sense of the SK. There are no associations, which makes the role kind of stupid.

AlwaysInnocent · Post Post #689 (isolation #145) » Wed Jan 06, 2016 2:55 am

In post 687, acryon wrote:
In post 685, AlwaysInnocent wrote:Yes, but you can't really make sense of the SK. There are no associations, which makes the role kind of stupid.

Ok sure, but this is D1 and certainly everyone's list of possible scum are not based on associations; that would be very stupid.

It influences the way scum interact with other scum, or even town. The SK doesn't have to worry about associations. They can basically play like town if they want (ignoring human psychology). The Mafia cannot do this; they need each other to win, or if they bus, they will have to think about how to do that in a convincing manner. It is much more tricky to be Mafia.

AlwaysInnocent · Post Post #696 (isolation #146) » Wed Jan 06, 2016 3:06 am

Okay. Acryon is probably town. Why waste such an easy lynch if he was Mafia?

AlwaysInnocent · Post Post #710 (isolation #147) » Wed Jan 06, 2016 5:43 am

Texacat is right. I only said that there could not be more than 3 scum, by which I mean the Mafia.

It is interesting that my "townslip" gives me reads on other people.

AlwaysInnocent · Post Post #712 (isolation #148) » Wed Jan 06, 2016 7:20 am

In post 711, Lucky2u wrote:I love how whenever anyone indicates a town feeling about AI he always feeds them a treat of encouragement. That's not scum at all.

I'm not sure what you read exactly, or why you think that I feed people "treats of encouragement". What does that even mean? You mean that I am relieved that people start to townread me when I was close to being lynched? How scummy of me.

This post of yours reads a lot like scum frustration, having lost a scapegoat. Nice try, buddy.

AlwaysInnocent · Post Post #732 (isolation #149) » Thu Jan 07, 2016 1:35 am

In post 731, Aneninen wrote:
In post 718, Aneninen wrote:VOTE: Kop

He's cum.

Oh shyt.
Really sorry, Kop, I didn't want to offend you.
I wanted to say "He's
s
cum", I was drunk last night.

I think that's been the worst typo ever made.

No. It was clearly a cumslip.

AlwaysInnocent · Post Post #737 (isolation #150) » Thu Jan 07, 2016 3:23 am

In post 736, Lucky2u wrote:Severely disappointed with that fact. It's good he is on the bbt wagon though, it makes tomorrow easier.

Why? You know something the test of us don't?

AlwaysInnocent · Post Post #738 (isolation #151) » Thu Jan 07, 2016 3:23 am

Rest*

AlwaysInnocent · Post Post #739 (isolation #152) » Thu Jan 07, 2016 3:26 am

In post 734, Kmd4390 wrote:Do we really not have seven people scumreading Always now?

=/

Why? You still want to see me lynched?

Doesn't seem smart for scum to do. People will be reading your posts afterwards and you will be implicated.

AlwaysInnocent · Post Post #746 (isolation #153) » Thu Jan 07, 2016 3:53 am

KMD, why Texcat? She actually seemed townish to me.

AlwaysInnocent · Post Post #747 (isolation #154) » Thu Jan 07, 2016 3:55 am

In post 745, Kmd4390 wrote:No. Your towncase relies on him misreading the setup when he didn't. Based on his earlier posts, pride is important to him. I forget details, but he accused someone of thinking he was dumb or something.

Pride? I am a very humble person, actually.

AlwaysInnocent · Post Post #751 (isolation #155) » Thu Jan 07, 2016 3:58 am

In post 750, Kmd4390 wrote:He has over 150 posts so it'll be a pain in the ass to find so hopefully you remember it, but there was an exchange where someone made a case on him or something and he took it as an insult to his intelligence and that was more important to him than the player's read on him and this whole thing felt smilar to that. Therefore, his reaction didn't feel alignment indicitive. And we all know that questioning a townread on one's self gets called town all the time. That's why I do it as scum and I'm sure I'm not the only one.

Preview edit: Give me a minute.

CTRL+F and search for "intelligence" or "insult".

AlwaysInnocent · Post Post #752 (isolation #156) » Thu Jan 07, 2016 3:59 am

Anyway, the insult to my intelligence was intimately connected with the mistaken scumread.

AlwaysInnocent · Post Post #755 (isolation #157) » Thu Jan 07, 2016 4:06 am

Hmm. In my mind, Texcat made a lot more posts than she did. She seems to be lurking, which is scummy. I'm not sure how she plays as town, but she should post more so that we have more to read her by.

AlwaysInnocent · Post Post #756 (isolation #158) » Thu Jan 07, 2016 4:10 am

Acryon, you think BBT is town?

AlwaysInnocent · Post Post #757 (isolation #159) » Thu Jan 07, 2016 4:14 am

In post 754, texcat wrote:I still think that BBT is the best lynch. His tunnel of Yos is scummy. The resistance to his wagon increases my scum read on him.

It's more that he didn't really seem that interested in reading other people than the tunneling. Many townies tunnel, like Roflcopter (assuming that I am correct about him).

If he were town, scum would have jumped on his wagon and he'd be dead by now.

Scum don't like bussing each other when not necessary, yeah. But at the same time if BBT is town, then scum might be a little careful in voting for him. I am sure that if he flips town, that the town will scrutinize the wagon on him.

Lynching BBT would resolve the situation and give us a ton of info.

You lynch people because you think they are scum. Information should not be the primary motivation.

My other scum reads are Kop, and now an OMGUS read of KMD.

Could you give a list of reads? Preferably a complete list.

AlwaysInnocent · Post Post #761 (isolation #160) » Thu Jan 07, 2016 4:22 am

In post 759, acryon wrote:
In post 755, AlwaysInnocent wrote:Hmm. In my mind, Texcat made a lot more posts than she did. She seems to be lurking, which is scummy. I'm not sure how she plays as town, but she should post more so that we have more to read her by.

This post is really weird. The statement "In my mind, Texcat made a lot more posts than she did" seems to imply that in the smaller amount of posts she is making, she actually is providing enough content to have an impression on you. This doesn't sound like lurking, or even active lurking.

Is the post weird or the idea that I have something in my mind that is contradictory to reality?

I'll put it this way: I'm not excited about a lynch on him. Much of his pushing feels like scumhunting. To be honest there isn't anybody I'm happy about lynching at the moment, which I'll admit has some to do with my absence for much of the day. I won't claim there aren't some sketchy things that BBT has done, but I'm not optimistic about a scum flip.

That makes sense.

AlwaysInnocent · Post Post #762 (isolation #161) » Thu Jan 07, 2016 4:23 am

Perhaps I should have emphasized that I read her ISO before making that posts, so "in my mind" was how I perceived her before I read her ISO.

AlwaysInnocent · Post Post #768 (isolation #162) » Thu Jan 07, 2016 4:31 am

Oh, you're on your phone. There is a search functionality on your phone as well, but it depends on the phone you are using and which browser you are running. CTRL+F is pretty standard for any computer.

AlwaysInnocent · Post Post #770 (isolation #163) » Thu Jan 07, 2016 4:49 am

Maybe you feel your gut is stronger than mine, but do you have more experience than I do?

Don't overestimate your read abilities. You won't believe me now, but your read on me is 100% wrong.

I have seen newer players play better than experienced players, because experienced players were overconfident. It happens more often than you think.

AlwaysInnocent · Post Post #776 (isolation #164) » Thu Jan 07, 2016 6:47 am

From town to scum:

{AlwaysInnocent}

{Acryon}
{Roflcopter}

{KMD, Shaddowez, Yosarian}

{Albert B.}

{Texcat, Kop}

{Lucky2u, Aneninen}

{BBT, Lowell}

Feel free to ask questions. I might even answer them.

AlwaysInnocent · Post Post #779 (isolation #165) » Thu Jan 07, 2016 6:58 am

In post 775, Kmd4390 wrote:You are misunderstanding the direction of my confidence. I'm confident that wasn't a townslip. That doesn't make you scum. Yes, I'm still scumreading you but your recent posts aren't why.

Regardless of the reason(s) you are scumreading me, you are objectively wrong about me.

AlwaysInnocent · Post Post #783 (isolation #166) » Thu Jan 07, 2016 7:03 am

In post 781, Kmd4390 wrote:That's all noise to me though. If you are town, of course you know that because only you and the Mod have that info. If you are scum, of course you'll say that because scum is claiming to be town. You can say it 100 times, and at the rate you're going you will, but like I said it's noise.

Preview edit: that was to Always

Yes, which is why I said that you won't believe me now, but it is still the truth. You will possibly reflect on your scumreading abilities (assuming that you are town for the moment) after I flip town (or when the game ends).

AlwaysInnocent · Post Post #784 (isolation #167) » Thu Jan 07, 2016 7:05 am

In post 782, acryon wrote:
In post 779, AlwaysInnocent wrote:
In post 775, Kmd4390 wrote:You are misunderstanding the direction of my confidence. I'm confident that wasn't a townslip. That doesn't make you scum. Yes, I'm still scumreading you but your recent posts aren't why.
Regardless of the reason(s) you are scumreading me, you are objectively wrong about me.

What are your quick reasons for voting BBT?

Like I said before, it is not so much the tunneling that concerns me, but that he seems to completely neglect everyone else. Yes, he asks them questions, but, as Yosarian pointed out I think, he never follows up on those questions. He was also very silent about my wagon when I was at L-2, as if he didn't mind that I would be lynched, because he would be able to lynch Yosarian (assuming he is town) the next day.

AlwaysInnocent · Post Post #788 (isolation #168) » Thu Jan 07, 2016 7:14 am

Yosarian, not BBT. Come on, you could have easily derived this from the context.

AlwaysInnocent · Post Post #792 (isolation #169) » Thu Jan 07, 2016 7:19 am

Yes, KMD, you are right. It is still noise, at least

currently

. For all you know (assuming you are town), I could be scum putting up an act. But I want you to remind this for after the game.

AlwaysInnocent · Post Post #793 (isolation #170) » Thu Jan 07, 2016 7:19 am

remember*

AlwaysInnocent · Post Post #798 (isolation #171) » Thu Jan 07, 2016 7:54 am

BBT's posts keep disappointing me.

AlwaysInnocent · Post Post #799 (isolation #172) » Thu Jan 07, 2016 7:55 am

It's like he isn't even trying to scumhunt. Just trying to appear scumhunting. It took him half an hour to comment on some posts.

AlwaysInnocent · Post Post #802 (isolation #173) » Thu Jan 07, 2016 8:09 am

In post 801, Kmd4390 wrote:
In post 799, AlwaysInnocent wrote:It's like he isn't even trying to scumhunt. Just trying to appear scumhunting. It took him half an hour to comment on some posts.

What makes his posts look that way?

My sense of disappointment. The time it took for him to post that, even though it looks like it shouldn't take that long to produce those comments if they are sincere.

AlwaysInnocent · Post Post #803 (isolation #174) » Thu Jan 07, 2016 8:11 am

Furthermore,

nothing about the recent development of the wagons

.

But the way he reacts to Texcat, makes it looks like he thought of it on his own. So he will probably jump on that wagon.

AlwaysInnocent · Post Post #807 (isolation #175) » Thu Jan 07, 2016 8:19 am

It seems like you are more of a spectator commenting on the match rather than actually participating.

AlwaysInnocent · Post Post #808 (isolation #176) » Thu Jan 07, 2016 8:19 am

BBT, I mean.

AlwaysInnocent · Post Post #826 (isolation #177) » Thu Jan 07, 2016 9:21 am

Nice WIFOM, BBT.

AlwaysInnocent · Post Post #828 (isolation #178) » Thu Jan 07, 2016 9:23 am

Wine In Front Of Me

AlwaysInnocent · Post Post #830 (isolation #179) » Thu Jan 07, 2016 9:26 am

If you are scum, which seems highly likely now, then you may want us to think that Lowell cannot be scum otherwise you would not try to lynch him at the end. Or perhaps you want us to think that, so we lynch him. Etc. Etc.

AlwaysInnocent · Thu Jan 07, 2016 10:21 am

AlwaysInnocent · Thu Jan 07, 2016 11:01 am

Starting to scumread Lowell less to be honest.

AlwaysInnocent · Thu Jan 07, 2016 11:38 am

In post 853, shaddowez wrote:
In post 849, AlwaysInnocent wrote:Starting to scumread Lowell less to be honest.

What is it about Lowell that you like, because frankly I don't see anything that says town.

I didn't say I liked his posts, but his last post seems more townish than scummy.

AlwaysInnocent · Thu Jan 07, 2016 11:49 am

Meh, I am starting to think Lucky is town, too. I think it was clear to scum that my lynch would be a lot harder now that some were townreading me. It actually makes sense that town-Lucky would think that scum-AI got off too easy, because my initial "townslip" wasn't a townslip at all.

So, I think we can find scum among the more opportunistic players, or perhaps the players that weren't interested in lynching me at all.

AlwaysInnocent · Thu Jan 07, 2016 11:54 am

So here is an updated list:

{AlwaysInnocent}

{Acryon}
{Roflcopter}
{Yosarian}

{KMD, Lucky2u}

{Shaddowez}

{Albert B.}

{Texcat, Kop, Lowell}

{Aneninen}

{BBT}

Not sure that Lowell is town yet, but I am ranking him lower in my list than before. Also some other changes that you can see for yourself.

AlwaysInnocent · Thu Jan 07, 2016 12:14 pm

In post 865, Kmd4390 wrote:Always, you forgot Kop on your list.

No. I didn't. He is with Texcat and Lowell.

AlwaysInnocent · Thu Jan 07, 2016 12:31 pm

I kind of agree with KMD (strangely enough).

AlwaysInnocent · Thu Jan 07, 2016 12:59 pm

Albert B.'s reasoning is not unreasonable, although I don't know if Lowell is the best lynch at this point. Anyway, I am reading him as fence-town now.

AlwaysInnocent · Thu Jan 07, 2016 12:59 pm

I mean Albert B. Fence-town.

AlwaysInnocent · Thu Jan 07, 2016 11:44 pm

Not confident that Lowell is scum.

AlwaysInnocent · Fri Jan 08, 2016 12:11 am

She is probably better than Lowell.

Albert, you think BBT is town now?

AlwaysInnocent · Post Post #885 (isolation #191) » Fri Jan 08, 2016 2:33 am

I'm OK with a Texcat lynch, I guess. I prefer BBT, though.

AlwaysInnocent · Post Post #890 (isolation #192) » Fri Jan 08, 2016 2:52 am

I think Albert B. is town.

AlwaysInnocent · Post Post #894 (isolation #193) » Fri Jan 08, 2016 2:56 am

Naaah. Texcat is probably scum. This is exactly like her scum game.

AlwaysInnocent · Post Post #895 (isolation #194) » Fri Jan 08, 2016 2:56 am

VOTE: Texcat

AlwaysInnocent · Post Post #897 (isolation #195) » Fri Jan 08, 2016 2:59 am

In post 896, acryon wrote:
In post 894, AlwaysInnocent wrote:Naaah. Texcat is probably scum. This is exactly like her scum game.

Why did this not come up before?

Because she was lurking. I didn't pay much attention to her. This is why it is necessary to keep reflecting back on our reads.

AlwaysInnocent · Post Post #898 (isolation #196) » Fri Jan 08, 2016 3:00 am

I had to re-read some of her games and compare them to this one (both scum and town).

AlwaysInnocent · Post Post #902 (isolation #197) » Fri Jan 08, 2016 3:03 am

In post 899, texcat wrote:Let's not do this. Doesn't it bother anyone that Kmd is the one who started this wagon?

She bothers me less than you. Your passive gameplay is scummy. As town you are much more aggressive. I am not seeing that now.

AlwaysInnocent · Post Post #903 (isolation #198) » Fri Jan 08, 2016 3:03 am

Blitz 11, for example.

AlwaysInnocent · Post Post #905 (isolation #199) » Fri Jan 08, 2016 3:10 am

In post 904, texcat wrote:?? Are you saying I was more aggressive in Blitz 11 ??

No, you were scum. You were very passive that game. I hardly noticed you. And in that game, I initially considered you town, too. For bad reasons. Apparently I made the same mistake twice.