Open 631 - Diffusion of Power (Over)

[Autti]

so... YOU ADMIT TO BEING SCUM?

VOTE: shottytea

Hi there, sorry forgot to check PM's.

Is this a vote for shotty, or a vote for chilledtea, i am confused.

Hm, I took it as a vote for shotty, but now I see how that could be ambiguous. However, I'm still taking it as a valid vote for shotty, as that is who Kain was replying to in his post.
- Max

[Autti]

I presumed it was a vote for shotty as well, but a potential Freudian slip there?

[Autti]

VOTE: drmyshotty

VOTE: Lowell

You haven't actually said a word yet.

[Autti]

ironic. youre mad about a cuss word that doesnt really effect shit. real mature on your end too my dude

his post is wrong. scum and town dont have linear mindsets when they play.

i play aggressive as scum. i play more passive as town. i know plenty of others who do the same. linear thinking in mafia leads to ultimate demise.

VOTE: Killthestory

Scum found.

[Autti]

Once again, I've been banned for my scum play before, so yes, I'd consider this more passive than my scum play. Also, looking at my past games, I'm not any more aggressive than any of them where I was confirmed to be town. This essentially nullifies your vote since if I'm playing normal as my other town games, wouldn't that mean that I wasn't playing as aggressively as my scumgame?

Your personal view on your own play is inherently unreliable and useless for my analysis.

You were being intentionally antagonistic which only serves to derail logical discussion, therefore scummy.

[Autti]

And there's why Rhae is town.

bro you're such scum you're trying to imitate someone else


What is wrong with you child.

this dude is lying out of his ass too.

How bad is it gonna get?

Yuck.

[Autti]

One thing that Snarky did that i find curios is that he re-posted the 2 quotes from KilltheStory, that Lowell had already done.

Instead of referencing the original pickup (Lowell) he did it himself for the sweet sweet town cred.

Minor point, but something i always look out for when someone else is trying to gain cred as opposed to just hunting.

[Autti]

SUCH explicit buddying!!!!!

VOTE: CHILLEDTEA!!!!

I NOTICED YOUR PLAN RIGHT AWAY

Not sure if you have some strategy to your playstyle.

But on the surface it seems super random and very oppudtunistic. I hope it's more complex than that. Because if not your scum.

Killthestory, I would vote you twice if I could.

[Autti]

Pistachi0n

come play with us.

[Autti]

One thing that Snarky did that i find curios is that he re-posted the 2 quotes from KilltheStory, that Lowell had already done.

Instead of referencing the original pickup (Lowell) he did it himself for the sweet sweet town cred.

Minor point, but something i always look out for when someone else is trying to gain cred as opposed to just hunting.

Hahahaha I just posted this. Although it was shotty not lowell. I disagree that it was for town credits. It just seems like his personality.

I did see the irony here.

Sorry, you are correct it was Shotty and not Lowell.

What makes it scummy to me is he didn't actually elaborate on it at all, just posted the quotes as if he did some work.

[Autti]

Yeah could be a behavioral trait.

I don't like it, but that doesn't make my view the correct one.

[Autti]

VOTE: KillTheStory

I don't like how he's desperately using self-meta to get us not to vote for him. He's said he plays even more aggressively as scum, but he also said his scum play has gotten him banned before. If anything, that would incentivize him to tone down the aggression. Regardless, his self-meta is coming across as desperate. He's my top scumread at the current moment.

anything else to contribute?

[Autti]

Man you must be another VI Town. PLing is for plebians who can't scumread. I mean I've already found scum in Snarky, but everyone's too focused on stupid shit.

Actually Rhaegar started the wagon on Snarky.

[Autti]

How about you stop swearing at everyone and be civil, that would be a good start.

[Autti]

This is town v town.

Scum are lurking laughing at you too spending all this time going at one another.

[Autti]

I guess my point is, IF this is white knighting or defending a scum buddy, its not worth voting him for it as its not a strong enough case.

The case can be made after we have a flip of one of the involved parties.

but currently there is no way i will vote either of you for this, as there are much better candidates out there.

[Autti]

KTS is scum.

His only interactions have been to antagonize people and distract attention from actual hunting.

[Autti]

What question?

Why I think KTS is scum for intentionally antagonizing.

It's beneficial for scum to antogonize because it distracts is townies from legitimate discussion. It diverts attention from actual scumhunting by personally insulting people and forcing petty squables as opposed to factual analysis

[Autti]

but AUTTI, wont KTS just find himself more easily LYNCHED because of that?? why do you think he thinks this is a good idea?

He has used self meta as a defense, and the fact that he hasnf acumhunted other than snarky indicates he really isn't interested.

To be honest,he thinks being offensive is somehow acceptable and tollerable. Despite the fact he has been banned previously for it.

[Autti]

pdodge

VOTE: SS

yeah i can get behind this wagon.

[Autti]

VOTE: SnarkySnowman

[Autti]

pdodge

VOTE: SS

yeah i can get behind this wagon.

You are voting for him because he prod dodged? Also you a quoting a vote that was nothing more than a prod dodge as well. No reasons literally just a vote tag. Something is wrong here.

Weird defense.

I'm voting him because he isn't making any attempt to scumhunt. He had a lot of suspicioun on him and dissappeared, instead of actually hunting. He has pretty much given up and at this point is trying to not implicate his scum mates.

The vote is solid, just because it's a blank post doesn't make the vote any less legitimage, he could have re-read and just decided to vote then.

Your counter attack is strange.

[Autti]

Claim won't really produce anything.

Not saying he should claim.

But in this setup everyone is either a cop or doc. Claiming doesn't provide us with much

[Autti]

*Not saying he shouldn't claim

EBWODP

[Autti]

Is that hammer?

[Autti]

Just putting it out there, coincidence that Snarky claims a nght 1 action.

[Autti]

UNVOTE: snarky

That is one condition I was not going to lynch snarky on. I didn't say it, as to not lead him into saying it.

at this point snarky is dead.

There is no point in lynching him now.

If he is a N1 Cop, scum are forced to NK him.

If he is a N1 Cop and scum decide to gambit and don't NK him he will confirm a townie or confirm a scum for us. At that point we have a confirmed town in him (because of result) and another confirmed slot. The worst outcome for scum.

If he is scum, he obviously won't be Nk'd, but we can investigate him N1 if we have another N1 Cop, at which point we lynch him tomorrow if he has no result (key here is that he has to guess correctly for doc or cop, or to convince for a scum ML).

[Autti]

No-lynching is not an option.

So I have a question.

If we don't lynch Snarky, what do we do if we run someone else up to l-1 and they claim n1 cop?

If they want to claim let them. At the end of the day the setup is semi open, and given enough info and CC's town will win if scum continue to fake claim.

I believe in snarky LESS after the claim, actually. But hey what do I know. The good news is fake claims only last a day, so we can do this all again if it comes to it. I basically agree with Autti is what I'm saying, I guess.

Its almost always the optimal strategy if somebody claims PR but is scummy.

The bonus here is that IF Snarky is town, he may be a day 5 cop, in which case he is taking a bullet for us.

[Autti]

[sigh]


is not reading a scuntell?

?

[Autti]

The bonus here is that IF Snarky is town, he may be a day 5 cop, in which case he is taking a bullet for us.

What did I miss? Have I been gone THAT long? The last I read was SS claimed N1 Cop, so where did this D5 possibility come from? You think he's bluffing to draw a NK to himself?? Would that even be optimal town play? What if we have a N1 Doctor? What if we have TWO N1 Doctors, and they both decide to protect him?

On the other hand, scum can't do anything but try to shoot him. I mean, they're 3 goons, so no RB there. So -again- what would be the points of TOWN SS claiming the wrong night?

I literally just explained it.

To take a bullet for a more important role.

Not sure what is complex about that.

[Autti]

Dammit, was just about to post how almost is scummy for his no-lynch strategy. You guys beat me to it

[Autti]

Guys.

Snarky is scum.

Got to L-1 made a forced reads list post to defend himself. Claims the single most valuable role in the setup, sees we aren't lynching him. Disappears again.

He is 100% scum.

Screw his gambit, just Lynch him.

[Autti]

rudeness and aggressiveness from me is not alignment indicative. reach for something else motherfuckers

Also it actually is. It's a pretty standard scum tactic to stifle discussion and just have petty shit fights between people, then claim it's not. Your making people waste time arguing with you as opposed to scum hunting. So yeah it's scummy and pointless.

[Autti]

rudeness and aggressiveness from me is not alignment indicative. reach for something else motherfuckers

Also it actually is. It's a pretty standard scum tactic to stifle discussion and just have petty shit fights between people, then claim it's not. Your making people waste time arguing with you as opposed to scum hunting. So yeah it's scummy and pointless.

except for the fact that i do that as any alignment lmfao, like i cant even help myself its fucking hilarious

but it is distracting and therefore antitown. Look at how many posts are people arguing with you

[Autti]

tru, but thats literally part of my personality lol. cant help it

Um. Yeah you can.


Regardless.

Lynch Snarky. I'm calling his bluff.

[Autti]

@Autti:

So you do agree KTS behaviour is anti-town, and could be a standard scum tactic, but you still want to lynch SS over the. Tell me why?

Because I'm certain Snarky is scum. I'm not certain KTS is.

[Autti]

VOTE: SnarkySnowman

[Autti]

VOTE: Autti

Lol.

[Autti]

VOTE: SnarkySnowman

Is this a cop result or you saying?

No.

This is snarky is scum and we should have lynched him yesterday.

[Autti]

Please don't Lynch yet. I want to have time to read this.

Also an FYI to everyone. There can be multiple cops on the same night, so don't think because somebody claimed n2 cop and didn't get counter claimedthey are legit.

[Autti]

Do not Lynch him yet.

[Autti]

Also an FYI to everyone. There can be multiple cops on the same night, so don't think because somebody claimed n2 cop and didn't get counter claimedthey are legit.

This alone is enough grounds for me to lynch you. How is Kop's claim not legit??

1- Let me drive you home: SS (confirmed scum) claimed PK was scum. This raises the chances pf PK being town to over 90%.

2- PK himself investigated Kop and found him town.

3- Kop investigated me and found I was town.

Let's work backwards:

3- I'm confirmed town, bc if I was scum then Kop must be scum, and if he is scum the PK must be scum, but we have already lynched one scum, so only 2 scum remain.

2- If Kop is scum then PK must be too. The problem here is he did come up with a town result on me when I could have been easily the mislynch of the day. He didn't need to claim anything, just push me.

1- PK also returned town on Kop which benefits not the mafia at all. He could've come up with a guilty on Snarky if that was a scum gambit, and whoever got lynched of them the other would have lived for the next couple of days at least w/o being suspected at all.

Now tell me again, why Kop's claim has any possibility of being fake?

hold your horses.

I wasn't counter claiming, I just had to check the setup after kop said I'm the d2 cop. I read that as exclusively him, so I checked the setup again and there can be multiple cops on the same night. Thus the act of claiming and not being CC'd isn't proof in itself.

I just wanted to remind everyone, as I was not certain myself.

[Autti]

And the best part is your scum buddy Autti outed himself as well, so it's a slam dunk.

I did not out myself lol.

I brought up an important setup point that people may have missed.

[Autti]

Can Kain Tepes be prodded if not already please.

[Autti]

I investigated Almost because I didn't like how he asked the night two cop (myself) to investigate pisskop. It was striking me that he knew that PK would show as town, and deflecting the cop to an innocent, since he seemed he knew SS was going to flip scum. I just felt that Almost was scum for that statement since he wanted the cop to look in the wrong direction.

Hiw do you know PK is the wrong direction? I think I caught you red handed. Maybe you know Almost is town because you are scum.

Because I knew PK was telling the truth that I am town. PK could still be scum, but I highly doubt it. He counter claimed SS, and SS flipped scum, so that gives his claim more credibility. Now on the other hand, if SS flipped cop, then I'd have investigated PK.

This is what I'm referring to Almost.

You can't actually counter claim in this setup unless we have 6 claimed docs or cops and somebody claims to be the 7th (and therefore one is lying).

But cop and doc nights aren't exclusive, multiple people didn't realise that.

[Autti]

Seriously how do people not see that lowell us scum, just read his last 10 posts good lord.

iso'd lowell, seems like a good lynch.

He was not onboard for the snarky wagon until he hammered and that could be more out of desperation to be on the wagon

[Autti]

Believing the cop claims for now; we have 5 candidates to lynch.

Rheagar
Duppin
KT
Lowell
Shotty

Snarky has very little interactions with most of them, other than Shotty who he pushes quite a bit. I honestly think Shotty is a mislynch candidate.

I think we need to analyse the early wagon on shotty at the start of day 3. That was quite strange seeing how we didn't have a guilty result it got to L-1 so quickly. I'd bet scum helped that along the way.

Also by my count we have 5 roles revealed. 3 dead doctors and 2 claimed cops (correct?) thus at this point it's not possible to solve via a mass claim.

We should wait for the KT replacement at least before moving forward.

[Autti]

Auti, lowell, time to make a pick.

I actually really dislike this.

Why are you forcing the pace so much? This isn't pro town.

[Autti]

Has shotty been hammered?

[Autti]

Yes by my count.

Ugh. The one thing I ask for is to wait for the replacement and we get Ranger of all people and nobody waits!

[Autti]

If shotty is scum. I simply can't see duppin as scum.

Duppin argued early on that either myself or shotty is scum.

That's a precarious position to be in because it forces him to bus his partner should i die or be lynched.

It's doubtful shotty is scum simply because Snarky pushed him and almost quite hard during the game.

Shotty was a bad Lynch.

I'm thinking duppin and lowell.

[Autti]

autti is a decent pressure-push tomorrow.

No I'm not. Please don't waste your time pushing me.

Ranger has the right idea of looking at the counter wagons, which I brought up earlier.

The day3 start wagon on shotty has to have scum on it given the pace of it, and the fact that shotty is town.

Ranger had a nice find on the almost counter wagon to Snarky.

Is duppin on both of those? I'm on a phone so it's a pita to find it

[Autti]

He pushed Rhaegar harder as it's likely somebody else would push shotty, who was a clear ML candidate.

[Autti]

So what if I am mafia?

Have you not been hammered? I thought you had

[Autti]

Well, Almost and Kop are both confirmed town now.

And almost.

We have 3 confirmed townies

[Autti]

Senile as someone at 50 would be, I'm pretty sure Almost50 doesn't qualify as being two different people.

Woops.

Pisskop started the investigation train yeah? So he isn't technically confirmed but almost and kop are.

[Autti]

Would a mass claim make it solveable at this point?

[Autti]

OK. Just checking.

Was thinking because there can be a maximum of each role. We would get a scenario were scum claiming would make it either too many docs or cops, thus narrowing down our investigation to the fake claimer in either the doc or cop pool (whichever has more claims than possible slots)

[Autti]

In response to Rheagar over me defending shotty.

I just didn't see him as that scummy. It's pretty simple, I honestly thought he was VI or just mislynch bait. I was sceptical to how fast the wagon had started because it was so early and to my mind we had no real evidence.

As for my mass claim theory.

At this point if we claim and have 5 cops and 6 docs we know the scum is fake claiming doc. And with the number of flips that will be narrowed down to 3 potential people (as we have confirmed dead docs).

Thus strategy will work for any 4/6 5/5 6/4 makeup.

I'm not sure why pisskop is against this, I cannot see a problem.

Also at this point role reveal means little as the last scum is better of killing the confirmed townies each night as we obviously won't Lynch those in lylo. Thus meaning role claims won't hurt the town.

[Autti]

With the given information, I already know that {you, Autti} is guaranteed to have the scum within. As a result, there's no point in massclaiming. We lynch one of you, and if the game's not over, we lynch the other the next day. So the game's over no matter what, yes, but it then becomes a point of why we would even bother massclaiming.

Thats not true at all.

Pisskop can be scum, and so too rhaegar.

Im yet to see an actual case against my massclaim theory.

[Autti]

sorry messed the quotes up.

That quote is from ranger, not dupping.

[Autti]

To be fair I think Ranger's point is that it doesn't really matter that much if we mass claim at this point. After doing the math (oh yeah) I'm inclined to agree. It's also fairly obvious what people are at this point I'd say. (or at least what they're going to claim).

i dunno, i still think it helps as it confirms at least another person as town.

there is no downside as scum don't gain anything by knowing pr's as we already have 2 confirmed townies for lylo. so if he has to NK them to have any chance of winning, as if it goes to 3p 2town v 1 scum and they are both confirmed town... well yeah.

And if they don't NK the confirmed town players then we get 2 more cop results to work with.

game is done i think.

[Autti]

How about that, Autti??

And just to reassure you I mean business, here's my vote:

VOTE: Autti

Um OK.

I'm a night 5 cop.

I really don't care who we Lynch at this point because the game is solveable for town if we do a mass claim.

VOTE: autti
If you want to Lynch me first that's fine.

[Autti]

For like the 10th time. It doesn't matter if scum know all our roles. He has no good NK targets anyway.

[Autti]

@Autti: Your attitude (of not caring if you get lynched) is anti-town. Please try to be more positive if you are indeed town-aligned.

Yeah nah.

At this point people aren't going to be convinced as they have made their own minds up.

It's just a procedure of going through and lynching the non confirmed people until we win.

If you want to start with me I don't have a problem with that, in fact I'll make it easy for you.

[Autti]

Ranger softd doc and implied you are a doctor Rheagar. I guess he found a crumb somewhere?

[Autti]

Ranger softd doc and implied you are a doctor Rheagar. I guess he found a crumb somewhere?

Why the fuck are we prematurely trying to guess roles?

You and duppin...

beacause it doesnt matter....

if we can figure out if scum is going to claim in the cop or doc pool it helps to confirm a bunch of people, which is fantastic.

Like how can you not see this. Its so bloody simple.

at the moment we have 4 docs and 5 cops claimed.

if almost and ranger claim cop then that confirms you as town rheagar, and means the scum must be one of the ones claiming cop, we can further eliminate that down by knowing that kop and almost are confirmed town. This gives us 3 candidates to lynch in order and we win.

its simple.

[Autti]

conversly if ranger and almost claim doc, then we KNOW for a fact that the scum is a doctor claimer, and all cops are confirmed town, as we would have 6 docs and 5 cops (impossible).

thus regardless of our actions, it confirms both duppin and myself to be town, without a doubt.

Knowing that almost is confirmed town, it is therefore ranger or rheagar that must be scum in this scenario.

There is no downside to the mass claim.

the only reason you would be against it is if you are scum.

[Autti]

it doesnt matter what rangers claim is.

this strategy works for all scenarios

[Autti]

conversly if ranger and almost claim doc, then we KNOW for a fact that the scum is a doctor claimer, and all cops are confirmed town, as we would have 6 docs and 5 cops (impossible).

thus regardless of our actions, it confirms both duppin and myself to be town, without a doubt.

Actually this is not true.

In a 6-5 the last scum could very well be one of the cop claims.

Auti, there can be six doctors in this setup.

Did you not read the wiki?

Fuck.

i kept thinking this is too easy and i must be missing something.

well i was. lol.

fml

[Autti]

so if the claims are 6-5 we dont know which pool the scum is in.

but if its 7-4 or 4-7 we do. god dammit.

[Autti]

I think autti scumslipped. What do you guys think.

i brain slipped lol.

seriously upset with myself right now haha. facepalm.

[Autti]

I know you're a doctor, too, because the last scum is going to have claimed cop.
That's because I'm absolutely convinced we're in the 6-doctor, 4-cop setup. Why else would both scum have claimed cop? If we had only five doctors, they could have claimed doctor, yet they both claimed cop. The logic behind this should be obvious enough, but I can explain further if this doesn't make sense.

I'm speechless. THIS is why you're GOOD. You do pay attention to details that escape us all

OK.. I think it is Autti, but I'm ok lynching either.

so like i said early, lynch me, then tomorrow lynch duppin. gg

cool

[Autti]

ok then.

VOTE: Duppin

[Autti]

I'm dead either way. Either I get Lynch today, or I get nked tonight to prevent my reveal.