Open 629: C9++ (Game over!)

[OceanWind]

I haven't read anything because I wanted to make sure I was going to be alive first.

Have we massclaimed already? If not, we should now.

Mafia can't holster a shot can they? We would be in a stalemate.

I'm pretty sure that the mafia can in fact waive a kill.

@Mod -

what happens if town keeps no lynching and mafia keep no-killing? How many cycles does it need to be before you call the game a draw/happily ever after.

[OceanWind]

I'm not a doc. I'm a VT. Clearly my predecessor is a dumbass trying a gambit.

Rest of you should claim. We're in MYLO.

[OceanWind]

Because this will be the final lynch of the game and we need all the information out so we can make the best decision.

We could no lynch again and massclaim tomorrow but if it seems like there'll be a no kill, it's just delaying the inevitable. I'm okay with that though. But we shouldn't lynch without everyone claiming.

[OceanWind]

No claiming in f4

What does that even mean?

I'm not sure why I even have to argue for this. Mass-claim is mylo/lylo is standard play. If you are not doing it, you are doing it wrong.

[OceanWind]

How in the fucking universe is a massclaim at mylo a horrible idea?

What on earth did I just walk into in this game. Have you guys even played mafia before.

[OceanWind]

If we lynch incorrectly at this point, we lose. Period. There is no circumstance under which a massclaim is a bad idea.

Even either of you two (Masquerade, WillReplace4Food) are a PR, that's information we can use in order to inform the lynch. Lynching without complete information just makes it more likely that we make the wrong choice.

Unless you are arguing for a no lynch. But neither of you have voted no lynch so I'm not sure what your intention is here. If you lynch without mass-claiming, you might as well be throwing the game because all the information is not out there.

If you don't get it - I'll repeat it for you:

this is the end. This is the game-deciding lynch. Concealing your role is not a priority at this point.

[OceanWind]

Great. Now that we established that, I'd like to see your claim and thanks.

[OceanWind]

Great. Now that we established that, I'd like to see your claim and thanks.

Have you puzzled out the setup?

What is it telling you?

I have thoughts on the setup but that can only be confirmed after seeing your claim. I don't really understand your hesitance here.

[OceanWind]

I'm aware that there are two possibilities left. I'd still rather get the information out there.

I didn't replace into this game to draw it. I'm going to take a shot at lynching who I think is the most likely mafia. If you have a role, there's no point hiding it.

[OceanWind]

Just vote no lynch and make them (or you) no kill again like a bitch

What purpose does this serve exactly?

[OceanWind]

Oh really? Is that because I asked for a massclaim when without it, we are as good as throwing the game or is it because I think it's so stupid that I even have to argue this point?

I don't know how much experience WillReplace4Food has but if he's hinting at a PR and not claiming, that's the stupidest thing he could possibly do at this point, not to mention, he could be mafia stalling.

[OceanWind]

That's what I planned to do once I replaced in. Instead I got caught up arguing something that should be common knowledge to everyone.

I'm going to start reading once WillReplace4Food claims so I can read with an informed perspective of what the setup is and who has what roles.

One other thing - are there any results or night actions that I should be aware of?

[OceanWind]

Why are you not claiming? There is zero benefit to you not claiming at this point.

[OceanWind]

I don't know how many times you need me to repeat a simple fucking mafia standard.

At mylo/lylo, when you are deciding the last lynch of the game, your best chance at winning is to have all information out so that you can make the most informed decision. Standard pro-town play like concealing your role has no utility here. You conceal your role so you don't get killed early on in the game. That just doesn't apply here at this point.

[OceanWind]

Oh really? Is that because I asked for a massclaim when without it, we are as good as throwing the game or is it because I think it's so stupid that I even have to argue this point?

I don't know how much experience WillReplace4Food has but if he's hinting at a PR and not claiming, that's the stupidest thing he could possibly do at this point, not to mention, he could be mafia stalling.

From your POV I'm locked into being a PR, right????

I don't give a shit what you are locked in to. Claim your role explicitly.

[OceanWind]

We're not no lynching when we have all but one claim. It's pointless, you'll just die.

At this point I just want to fucking finish this.

Just vote no lynch then

Give it one more try

What the fuck do you hope to gain from this?

[OceanWind]

Just vote no lynch and make them (or you) no kill again like a bitch

Why do you want to vote no lynch if you think mafia will no kill again? The entire point of no lynching is to narrow down the pool of possible mafia. So if we no lynch, we are hoping that they DO kill someone.

Either you are a VT or a mafia and they have already no killed once - in which case, doing it again is just a waste of 48 hours.

Or you have a PR that stopped the kill. If so, claiming that will give the information we need to better figure out what happened.

I'm already regretting replacing into this game. If I wanted to teach people how to play mafia, I'd IC in the newbie queue.

[OceanWind]

We don't know which of the possible setups it is until you claim.

I literally JUST explained why I want all the information out and I'm not sure how it missed your thick skull. Claim now, please.

[OceanWind]

I should not have to argue simple fucking common wisdom with you. It frustrates me that morons who belong in the newbie queue try to play mafia elsewhere and bring down the experience for everyone else.

Why are you not claiming? What the fuck benefit to you think will accrue from not claiming? If you think you are smarter than anyone else and have some "secret strategy," don't delude yourself. You are wrong. Just claim now so I can figure out who the mafia is and lynch them.

[OceanWind]

You're asking me if I explicitly know who the mafia is based on last nights results.

Lol wat

No. I'm asking you to claim your role. The thing in your role PM that the mod sent you that specifies what role you have.

[OceanWind]

Stop playing coy and just claim your role.

[OceanWind]

CLAIM YOUR FUCKING ROLE, DUMBASS. Why do you need twenty fucking posts full of explanations for the simplest goddamn thing in the mafia game.

This is why I'm never playing mafia again unless I know every player in the game is at least reasonably competent.

[OceanWind]

I don't want to POE your fucking role. I want you to state it. I want to hear it from you.

[OceanWind]

What is your problem? Do you understand that this is the end and that we cannot afford to be wrong on a lynch? Why are you concealing your role? Do you not grasp that it's no longer useful to do that? I mean, you should have claimed pages ago and we're still arguing this nonsense. Just claim and let's focus on actually figuring the game out.

[OceanWind]

I don't want to POE your fucking role. I want you to state it. I want to hear it from you.

You apparently don't understand c9++

I've played C9++ several times offsite and once here. I understand it very well. I'm aware that you can deduce the setup once you have some roles out there.

None of that is my concern. I don't want to deduce anything here. I want you to explicitly claim the exact role you have. From there, we'll figure out if it makes sense with everything else and with your play so far.

[OceanWind]

Looked through your completed games and it turns out this is your first game onsite. Perhaps I shouldn't have gotten as frustrated. But you really should play a newbie game before signing up for regular games.

The mistake you are making is such a fundamental part of mafia that it frustrates me to have to even explain it for you - but I've done this several times and I don't know how much more clearer I can make this.

I came into this game to play mafia, not to teach you how to play. That's something the ICs and SEs in newbie games will be happy to do. But really, join a newbie game.

As far as the setup: yes, I know that there are only two variations currently possible with the roles that have flipped so far. That's T and TTT. But what I want to do is figure out how your role fits in. I don't want to guess and speculate at this juncture before casting a vote for a game deciding lynch. I want you to explicitly state your role in no uncertain terms so we can figure out how it fits in.

[OceanWind]

This is a really pointless argument.

I don't think we should go to night with the PR outted, but if WR4F doesn't want to claim his specific role that really doesn't matter.

I want every piece of possible information out there before deciding what to do. I don't trust WillReplace4You to be smart enough to disseminate the information himself.

[OceanWind]

Lol this is an alt I have over 30 completed long games.

And this is TTT dude

I mean that there's two possibilities of the missing letter in TTT

How about telling us your exact role so that we can see for ourselves rather than offering up your little nuggets of wisdom about which setup it is?

[OceanWind]

And yeah, it has to be TTT. Looked at the setup again. There are four possible setups with the serial killer. It can't be 5Ts or 7Ts because three of those letters are V, D, and C. It can't be T because there's no single role with three letters.

[OceanWind]

Since WillReplace4Food seems to be a complete troll, I'll try and figure this out the best we can:

TTT = 2 Goons + Roleblocker, Serial Killer (Investigation Immune OR 1-Shot Bulletproof)

That means four other letters. We know three of them are VDC (1X Vig, 1X Cop, Doc). That leaves just one other letter which I assume is WillReplace4Food.

He could be a Roleblocker. He can't be a 1X Vig or 1X Cop because two V's or two C's would just cause the role to be a full vig or cop rather than two 1X vigs or two 1X cops. He could be 1X doctor. He can't be an innocent child because that's confirmed at the start of day one by the mod.

So, two possibilities:

1. Roleblocker
2. 1X doctor

I need you to claim which it is and what your night actions have been each night.

[OceanWind]

Now that your giant brain has gotten there, do you see what I've been getting at

You are completely missing the point. You think you are so smart that you want to "trick mafia" into not knowing what role you have or what night action you have but you fail to understand that the way to solve the game is to have all the information out on the table.

There is nothing to be gained from you trying to hope that the mafia doesn't know which role you have.

I don't want to go to another night. That's pointless. Mafia don't have any reason to target anyone other than you. If you die, you die. If not, we're in the same situation tomorrow.

If you are a doc, you need to reveal who you protected last night so that we can clear that person (to some extent, it is also possible that mafia waived their kill but I think a little less likely). If you are a roleblocker, we also know that the person you blocked has the most chance of being the remaining mafia (again, with the possibility that mafia simply waived the kill).

I shouldn't have to squeeze all this information out of you. Just lay it out there so we can work from that.

[OceanWind]

Or, or, you stop dwelling on setup spec that won't make any freaking difference.

It makes all the difference in the world to know exactly what we are dealing with.

[OceanWind]

At least, this makes it clear that as frustratingly stupid WillReplace4You is, he's at least town. That means one of Nahdia/Masquerade.

[OceanWind]

I don't

care

what you think WillReplace4You's role is. Having his role and night actions explained explicitly is infinitely better than making decisions by speculating on them. I don't understand why this is unclear. I don't care if anyone thinks they have figured it out. Now's the time to claim, not speculate.

[OceanWind]

But what is so obvious Nahdia? Spell it out, please.

[OceanWind]

Do we know what happened with the missing night kill N2? Did Ranger say who she protected?

[OceanWind]

While I'd much prefer WillReplace4You tell us whether he's a 1X doc or a roleblocker and claim all of his night actions, I think based on what we've seen so far, he's not exactly someone I can rely on to advance the town wincon. Going to just treat him as a troll and read the game to figure out which of Nahdia/Masquerade it is.

[OceanWind]

Summarizing the game for ease of reference:

No lynch happened Day one.

Reubus Swagrid

a

Town 1-shot Vigilante

was shot night One

ɀefiend

a

Mafia Goon

was shot night one
--

Something_Smart

Creature

a

Serial Killer

was lynched day two.
No kill happened night two.
--

Willowmeadow

a

Vanilla Townie

was lynched day three

Ranger

a

Town Doctor

was shot night three
--

heuristically_alone

Kop

a

Mafia Roleblocker

was lynched day four

RadiantCowbells

pisskop

TheSoldier

a

Town 1-Shot Cop

was killed night four
--

Klingoncelt

a

Vanilla Townie

was lynched day five.

RachMarie

Reverie

GoodNightMsGreen

a

Vanilla Townie

was killed night five.
--
No lynch happened day five.
No kill happened night five.
--

Alive:

WillReplace4Food

ChannelDelibird

KainTepes

-

Town Roleblocker or Town 1X Doc

OceanWind

acryon

-

Vanilla Townie

Masquerade

wgeurts

Masquerade

Nahdia

[OceanWind]

He already said he doesn't have any game solving info for us, so he doesn't. Your entrance being 5 pages of arguing about setup spec is rad tho.

What I wanted was for him state "My role is [insert role here]. My night actions are [N1: xx, N2: xx, etc].

That's all that was needed. Instead we had five pages of argument about it. And he still hasn't offered that information which is why I'm dismissing him as an annoying troll.

What concerns me is your reaction. Why you aren't explaining this simple fact to him instead taking vague potshots at me for arguing about it when the argument stems from WillReplace4Food's refusal to claim.

It looks like you are buddying conf-town as opposed to the person that's right which smacks of an agenda.

The setup spec is absolutely necessary to figure the game out. I don't see what your problem with that is.

[OceanWind]

He already said he doesn't have any game solving info for us, so he doesn't.

This makes zero sense. He CAN'T know whether he has game solving info. That's for the town to determine and debate and analyze.

If he's the roleblocker and used his role on someone last night, it is highly likely that whoever he used his role on is the final mafia.
If he's the 1X doc, it is highly likely that if he protected someone last night, they are likely town.

Those are the only deductions we can make. I want him to out so we can take those things into consideration while making our final decision.

[OceanWind]

That is only applicable if we no lynch today: something I don't want to do.

If we lynch today, any tips you inadvertently give the mafia are irrelevant.

I want to lynch today because going into night, the mafia will not kill anyone other than WillReplace4You. If they manage that kill, we lose conftown. If not, we're in the same predicament as today.

[OceanWind]

And I don't. They're wifom because of the possibility of scum no-killing. All we can do is talk about who our scumread is and then Will can consider those with his results and if he feels it's necessary to share something he can do that.

That's an abundantly stupid strategy. You want to handicap the town by having us solve the game with only some pieces of information rather than all of it.

[OceanWind]

I agree with you about lynching today but you're wrong about something else, so please drop this subject.

If we are lynching today and everyone has already claimed or are conftown, there is no reason to conceal anything.

[OceanWind]

No, seriously Masquerade - instead of all of us operating with complete information, you want to handicap us into operating with incomplete information and make it so that Will is the only one with complete info?

Considering his skill level, I don't even trust him to accurately piece together that information and even if he was a good player, I wouldn't trust anyone else to solve the game for me.

The ONLY reason for Will to conceal anything is if we no-lynch. So, Nahdia's logic is pretty flawed because she's both advocating we lynch today AND saying that Will doesn't have to claim. If today is the final day of judgment, why should we not have access to all information? Why do you want to solve the game with half the puzzle pieces and trust Will to do the rest?

[OceanWind]

I'm wondering if zefiend asked his buddies to help him push Ranger since he really wanted that wagon to go through.

You mean the previous night? Because as far as I can tell, mafia doesn't have daytalk.

[OceanWind]

I did not anticipate needing to explain these really simple concepts when I replaced in and it's frustrating that that's the focus here as opposed to everyone claiming and then figuring out the more aspects of the game. But considering Nahdia seems fairly new as well, I'm going to give a little more leeway and try to work with what I have.

I'm going to grab dinner and come back in an hour or so. Hopefully the break will help me get refreshed and I'll be able to catch up tonight and post thoughts and reads.

[OceanWind]

*more nuanced aspects of the game.

[OceanWind]

No, seriously Masquerade - instead of all of us operating with complete information, you want to handicap us into operating with incomplete information and make it so that Will is the only one with complete info?

Considering his skill level, I don't even trust him to accurately piece together that information and even if he was a good player, I wouldn't trust anyone else to solve the game for me.

The ONLY reason for Will to conceal anything is if we no-lynch. So, Nahdia's logic is pretty flawed because she's both advocating we lynch today AND saying that Will doesn't have to claim. If today is the final day of judgment, why should we not have access to all information? Why do you want to solve the game with half the puzzle pieces and trust Will to do the rest?

Listen jabroni

If I was an RB, then I'd only have info if I RBd last night and there was a kill. I could clear the person I blocked. As there was no kill, it's possible that mafia no killed or I blocked the kill attempt. I would share the target of my block in this case.

Suffice it to say I'm not a RB.

If I was a 1-shot doc, you're positing that I still had my shot as of last night (night 5?). You really think that's likely? I mean, holstering 4 nights is risky on the border of outright dumb. So, if I used my shot, assume there is no relevant info from that because the person I protected is dead..or alive but I didn't protect them on the night is the missing kill so there is no info to be gleaned from that.

So, you expecting that there is some info that is being withheld is extremely frustrating to me, so much so that I'm compelled to laugh at you for insinuating that I'm the one lacking skill and/or intelligence.

I am left wondering if there is really a persona out there who, as scum, would take this dumbass line while also insisting that we lynch today.

Your pig headed ignorance almost makes me want to just clear you and end this.

But now that it's basically narrowed to you and Masq, I guess I'll just have a read back. Probably just masq though.

So, you are not just a moron. You are a moron with an attitude.

It's mylo. I don't want to speculate on what you did, I want you to reveal what you did. I don't know where you feel on your head as a baby and hit your head but you keep missing my point and chugging along.

[OceanWind]

I'm not touching my townread on Nahdia

If you are town, this is stupid. You should re-evaluate Nahdia.

[OceanWind]

No, seriously Masquerade - instead of all of us operating with complete information, you want to handicap us into operating with incomplete information and make it so that Will is the only one with complete info?

Considering his skill level, I don't even trust him to accurately piece together that information and even if he was a good player, I wouldn't trust anyone else to solve the game for me.

The ONLY reason for Will to conceal anything is if we no-lynch. So, Nahdia's logic is pretty flawed because she's both advocating we lynch today AND saying that Will doesn't have to claim. If today is the final day of judgment, why should we not have access to all information? Why do you want to solve the game with half the puzzle pieces and trust Will to do the rest?

Listen jabroni

If I was an RB, then I'd only have info if I RBd last night and there was a kill. I could clear the person I blocked. As there was no kill, it's possible that mafia no killed or I blocked the kill attempt. I would share the target of my block in this case.

Suffice it to say I'm not a RB.

If I was a 1-shot doc, you're positing that I still had my shot as of last night (night 5?). You really think that's likely? I mean, holstering 4 nights is risky on the border of outright dumb. So, if I used my shot, assume there is no relevant info from that because the person I protected is dead..or alive but I didn't protect them on the night is the missing kill so there is no info to be gleaned from that.

So, you expecting that there is some info that is being withheld is extremely frustrating to me, so much so that I'm compelled to laugh at you for insinuating that I'm the one lacking skill and/or intelligence.

I am left wondering if there is really a persona out there who, as scum, would take this dumbass line while also insisting that we lynch today.

Your pig headed ignorance almost makes me want to just clear you and end this.

But now that it's basically narrowed to you and Masq, I guess I'll just have a read back. Probably just masq though.

Like how stupid do you need to be to post a wall full of rubbish to answer a simple question.

Since you said you weren't an RB, I'm assuming you are a 1X doc. Since you explicitly stated that you didn't use your shot last night, I'm assuming you used it some other night. I still don't know which night.

So, instead of a simple fucking answer:

"I'm a 1X doc. I protected X on night Y,"

you wrote a cryptic paragraph focused on telling me how great you are that still doesn't tell me which night you used your role. What the hell, is wrong with your head?

[OceanWind]

And I'm aware of the implications if you used your role last night. You just didn't strike me as a bright enough guy to make the same conclusions I made i.e. if you blocked someone last night, I wasn't sure whether you had the brainpower to understand that that meant that that person was the remaining mafia. I wasn't sure where you had the brainpower to know that if you doc'd someone, that they were clear. You come across to me as a mental retard. Expecting me to assume that you function like a normal person is unreasonable.

[OceanWind]

Ocean go rtfg instead of getting Will to share his info of which he is explaining it's useless. Nobody is cc'ing him. What is the fucking point? Explain, in deatil, what you would gain from his info.

Why do you want to solve the game with incomplete information?

If you are town, unvote until I read the game and figure out which of you are mafia. I'm only on page four right now. About sixty-six pages more to go.

[OceanWind]

No I don't. I'm happy with this townread. If you don't agree, point out to me why she is scum.

I'm not sure whether or not I agree. I'll know after I read the thread.

[OceanWind]

Sorry I son'd you I guess

I was probably too mean to you

This is not an answer to who you protected and when. This is why you are a tool. But I'm going to work around that and figure out the game anyways.

[OceanWind]

Voting no lynch is a bad idea since the only thing that'll happen is you die. I suppose it is functionally the same but if Masq is town and does a dumb thing like insta-vote, then that'll end the game. At least now, we have a buffer in case someone stupid-votes.

[OceanWind]

Okay, look - here's the current situation:

a) We are lynching today.

If we are, this is the final lynch. There is no backtracking from here. So, what exactly is the benefit from Will hiding his info? Nothing. Is there anything unclear about this?

b) We are no-lynching today.

Your arguments hold water. We conceal Will's role and we try and find the remaining mafia through night-actions. But this is unlikely since Will doesn't have any usages of his role left and also mafia might WIFOM and hold their kill.

So, we're not doing b). We are lynching today. If we are, then your arguments don't hold water because today is the final day and a mislynch loses us the game.

So, stop bitching about me revealing Will's role and look at the logic. There is no circumstance under which what you and Nahdia are saying makes sense. Both of you seem like newbies. But one of you is mafia and the other is just not thinking things through deeply enough. So, examine the logic and tell me whether you understand.

[OceanWind]

Will has claimed 1X doc. If we no-lynch, mafia will simply kill him tonight. If we mislynch, mafia will kill him tonight anyways and win the game.

[OceanWind]

And I'm aware of the implications if you used your role last night. You just didn't strike me as a bright enough guy to make the same conclusions I made i.e. if you blocked someone last night, I wasn't sure whether you had the brainpower to understand that that meant that that person was the remaining mafia. I wasn't sure where you had the brainpower to know that if you doc'd someone, that they were clear. You come across to me as a mental retard. Expecting me to assume that you function like a normal person is unreasonable.

OMG OCEAN HOW MUCH OF AN IDIOT CABN YOU BE WE ALL KNOW THERE IS A POSSIBILITY OF A NIO_KILL AND WILLS INFO WILL ONLY CAUSE WIFOM IF HE EVEN HAS INFO ABOUT LAST NIGHT TO SHARE SPO STOP AKING HIM TO CONFUSE ALL OF US AND GET LYNCHED ALREADY

So, you want to lynch without information because you are worried that your brain can't handle additional info?

[OceanWind]

Also, Will and Masq, who the fuck are your mains - just so I know to avoid Will in the future and Masq if he flips town.

[OceanWind]

I don't think whether or not scum would quickhammer makes much of a difference in outcome. If they didn't know what role Will has, they wouldn't quickhammer.

But that at least helps me understand where you are coming from even if I disagree.

Still want to read through the game to make a decision. I'll post thoughts then.

[OceanWind]

Yeah. And I couldn't care less whether they can quickhammer or not. I'm not sure why that makes a difference. As long as town uses their brains and don't put anyone at L-1 until everyone's ready to end the day, it makes no difference

[OceanWind]

It's a seventy page game. I need to read and catchup. Just give me some time. It won't happen instantly.

[OceanWind]

but I'm just going to take this as there not being a pr left here and we're all vt's vs a scum.

Are you actually serious? If the mod made a mistake, then Will is no longer confirmed town and needs to claim.

[OceanWind]

I should still be lickety lock clear though, as there is 0 reason for scum!Will to out as VT when I've never actually claimed a PR and everyone is assuming I'm a PR and lock clear.

You only outed after it was brought up that the mod made an error. That makes you no longer clear if you had claimed a PR.

[OceanWind]

You guys - winking at Nahdia means two things:

1. He is town and thought that Nahdia was fake-claiming.
2. He is the remaining mafia and thought that Nahdia was fake-claiming because he was expecting a PR and no one claimed.

How is this hard to see? Stop taking non-alignment indicative things as alignment-indicative please. All of this should be standard knowledge to anyone not a newbie.

[OceanWind]

I feel like Ocean took a look at the playerlist, took a look at the setup and flips, and decided he could win this game on pure setupspec and bluff.

No idiot. I was the only one that has been trying to figure out the game.

First off, it was mylo. Instead of just massclaiming immediately, you and Will did a whole song and dance about it and I had to explain precisely why massclaiming at mylo is a given.

Then Will decides to not claim at all and instead soft a PR making it more difficult to figure out the game. Finally he outs as VT.

Then you two (you and Nahdia) can't distinguish between what's alignment-indicative and what's not.

Then both of you somehow have a weird "townread" on each other. That makes me lean towards Nahdia as the remaining mafia because she strikes me as somewhat smarter than you (no offense).

I feel like I've been alone in the game and not a single one of you even understands the basics of mafia.

And yes, I'm going to read through the game. Stop complaining about it.

[OceanWind]

Ocean, stop making Will look bad and tell me why you don't agree with why I still think he's town even though he has admitted to not having a pr.

Will could be the remaining mafia. Wtf do you mean "stop making Will look bad?"

Why do you think Will is town?

[OceanWind]

When I get really pissed off, I yell at people. It's better than conflating your annoyance with thinking that they are mafia and voting them - which is what you are doing. So, try and do some introspection there.

[OceanWind]

Taking a break and coming back later. You guys are just driving me nuts. Will answer outstanding questions when I get back.

Just don't vote hastily before I finish reading up.

[OceanWind]

Taking a break and coming back later.

But you haven't answered anything

Yeah, leaning towards it being you. I feel like you are playing stupid rather than being genuinely stupid like the other two.

[OceanWind]

2. He is the remaining mafia and thought that Nahdia was fake-claiming because he was expecting a PR and no one claimed.

If this was the case, why would he retract his claim? I made it clear I wasn't going to CC him.

Could you respond to this?

I have no idea why he would retract his claim.

[OceanWind]

I mean I'm not saying he can't be town or that he isn't likely to be town since you are the one I suspect. But he's no longer in the clear.

[OceanWind]

Then I'll break it down:

A) He's town who was concerned the PR didn't realize who they were.
B) He's scum who was concerned about being locked into his softclaim and suddenly being in a CC.

I think A is more likely. What about you?

Exactly. I also think A is more likely.

Since when does "likely" = "confirmed town?"

I'm going to push who I think is mafia regardless of how good an idea you think it is. And obviously you won't think it's a good idea because you are the one being pushed.

[OceanWind]

I am seriously taking offense now Ocean. Stop insulting me by calling me stupid.
The only reason I'm not replacing out rn is because I don't want you guys to have a slot that cannot explain previous actions. Because I know I'm town. And I want to explain every single thing I did this game to help you guys see it. But I am ignoring Ocean for now.

You are voting me because you are mad at me. Honestly I'd have more respect for you as a player if you called me stupid but didn't let your emotions affect your reads.

Yeah, I think you are playing horribly right now. I also think your posts come across as more genuine than Nahdia's whose posts come across as a lot more fake and strategic.

[OceanWind]

If you're trying to make an enemy out of me you'll succeed and you won't be happy about the outcome.

This is a very scummy statement. From your perspective, if I'm town, my job is to find and lynch the remaining mafia, not merely to survive. I lose regardless of whether I get lynched or lynch another townie.

I don't (and shouldn't) care about who I'm making enemies with. It's far more important to try and get accurate reads. For you to suggest that I fall in line with you and encourage me to play like mafia is ludicrous. For you to threaten to lynch me if I go up against you is transparently scum-motivated.

[OceanWind]

I'm not "complaining" about townreads. In order to figure out who the remaining mafia is, I need to figure out whose reads are real and whose reads are fake. Scrutinizing people's reads (including townreads) is the way to do that.

Why does even need explanation? You do understand how this game is played, right?

[OceanWind]

I didn't contradict myself. Will said he was still clear despite not having a PR. I pointed out that he's not.

[OceanWind]

Whichever of you are town, stop being stupid. You are wrong. Worse than being wrong, you are voting me before giving me a chance to catch up. This is not how you win mafia games.

Reading seventy pages is not a joke. Here's a homework assignment for you while I catch up:

1. Give ten reasons why you think my slot is the remaining mafia.
2. Give ten reasons why the other two slots are town. Go.

[OceanWind]

There are nine days left. Rushing at this point is stupid.

[OceanWind]

In any case, you are the one I'm probably voting for because everything you posts reads like you are forcing it. "I'm always wrong yet I may be right this time" makes no sense whatsoever.

I hope Will isn't dumb enough to hammer. But just on the off-chance I'm wrong about you, you need to re-read the game and figure stuff out.

[OceanWind]

There are nine days left. Rushing at this point is stupid.

and the last two have been radio freakign silence.

Why the fuck does it matter that no one has posted in the last two days? There's still nine days left. That's good. If people keep posting, that's distracting me from reading the game so I'm spending time responding to you dumbfucks.

[OceanWind]

we had two days of silence for you to catch up and you didn't do shit jesus christ you don't have a leg to fucking stand on dude if you're town im actually going to be so fucking pissed with you

Do you have reading comprehension problems? Why are you putting your fingers in your ears and repeating the same thing over again?

1. I don't give a rat's ass that there were two days of silence. Silence is good.
2. I'm not the one putting someone at L-1 with nine days on the clock before they even caught up with the game.

[OceanWind]

I've been catching up. Partly. I'm on page six. I didn't have time to catch up much more than that.

This is the only thing I had in my notes and is partly why I want to catch up fully to see which of you is scummier:

Masquerade's Post 48 was the first thing that I found scummy. She asked a question which Ranger side-stepped. Instead of pursuing the questioning, she appeases Ranger by saying "never mind" and making a non-committal point about being brushed off and teased. That doesn't seem like she's actually interested in the answer.

[OceanWind]

I just hope you are mafia because if you are town, you are a fucking tool that put someone at L-1 before they caught up nine days to deadline and were wrong.

[OceanWind]

And I hope you are mafia because if you're town, you're a prat who can delay for 5 days promising reads and catchup "oh this evening." "oh in a few hours." etc and delay for 5 freaking days and only get two pages in. I have plenty of reason to scumread your slot so don't act like your catchup is some critical thing. your delaying aside (which IS scummy to me, by the way), you've been discouraging townreads today and acryon was scummy as fuck in his interactions with pisskop.

What are these plenty of reasons? List them out (or quote them if you've already listed them out).

It's irrelevant how many days have passed. Doesn't change the fact that there's more than a week left for deadline.

"Discouraging townreads?" How stupid can you be? Townreads are supposed to be scrutinized and placed under a microscope because a) you could be wrong, b) you could be mafia faking those reads. I know one of these is true because I'm town.

[OceanWind]

there's more than enough to read you on so don't try to make me step off by telling me i don't have the whole picture, lamer. i've played this entire freaking game, and am unique among the people alive in that respect, so maybe you shouldn't accuse me of rushing shit. I've been playing for three goddamn months. you're scum. that's my read. that's where my vote is going. im sorry if it's wrong but honestly you saddle plenty of the freaking blame too if you're town here, just by the way you've been playing.

Hard to blame someone when you haven't given them the chance to play.

[OceanWind]

In any case, you are the one I'm probably voting for because everything you posts reads like you are forcing it. "I'm always wrong yet I may be right this time" makes no sense whatsoever.

I hope Will isn't dumb enough to hammer. But just on the off-chance I'm wrong about you, you need to re-read the game and figure stuff out.

That's NOT AT ALL what Nahdia said. Way to take her words out of context, scum.
When are you going to start reading the game? Because there's a lot of posts from you responding to our latest posts and nothing from the early game.

No, it's not good that we have 9 days left. I mean, sure we have time, but stalling is a scumtactic to make town apathetic and I strongly feel you are doing it.

I'm not even reading at this point aymore. Combine this^ with reasons I've mentioned before and that's about 6 reasons I have based on YOU alone, you replaced in TODAY while Acryon was here for the ENTIRETY before you. You asked for 10. I'm pretty sure I can find 4 more in Acryon's iso, and possibly more on you if I actually TRIED.
I'm not changing my mind anymore. Your next post better be a catchup of the game or a self-hammer.

List them out in point form. Also, explain why Nahdia is a townread. If you've already done this, quote me specific posts where you explain why Nahdia is a townread.

[OceanWind]

I'm not going to point-by-point post my reads here so you can go and see if you can make me look bad or copy them or whatever. Go make your own reads.

So, basically you want to decide the game without even going over your reads?

[OceanWind]

I've already posted my reads: Nahdia as the remaining mafia. I've explained why as well. She seems like she's playing dumb and her threat to me to not make an enemy is chock-full of scum-motive. She doesn't want to go up against me. If she were town, she'd know that my job as town is to find mafia which means I shouldn't care about making enemies out of anyone - and I don't. She's trying to direct my response rather than assess what makes sense for me to do as town.

If you want more details, you are going to have to wait.

[OceanWind]

you're essentially refusing to do so and just stalling the clock.

This again is nonsensical. There are nine days left. If I don't do anything for nine days, I get lynched. So, this "Stalling the clock" garbage doesn't fly.

[OceanWind]

Tell me; how can you have a read if you haven't read the fucking game? You seem to think it's impossible for us to have a read on you without your catchup, but you're reading me having nothing to base it on.

This is also completely nonsensical. I just explained that based on my interactions with Nahdia so far, she was my best guess for the last mafia. However, IO will read the game and this will either strengthen or disappear. Nahdia is just talking out of her ass at this point.

[OceanWind]

"Discouraging townreads?" How stupid can you be? Townreads are supposed to be scrutinized and placed under a microscope because

a) you could be wrong, b) you could be mafia faking those reads. I know one of these is true because I'm town.

This, I just read this just now and it's freaking hilarious. It makes no sense whatsoever.

I'll explain it a bit more slowly so your tiny brain can grasp it:

You are townreading Will and Nahdia. I'm town. That means you are either mafia or one of your reads are wrong.

[OceanWind]

I have no intention of playing again with whichever two of you morons are actually town. You making a blacklist is hilarious assuming you are town about to lose the game.

[OceanWind]

Oh wait yeah no I'm pretty sure you're scum so I completely forgot about the possibility of you being town.

Anyway, she could still be right, why are you disregarding Will as scum? He wasn't conftown?

I'm not disregarding anyone. Nahdia is just my strongest scumread.

[OceanWind]

I'm going to read the game. I'm not the one putting someone at L-1 with nine days on the clock.

[OceanWind]

Ocean, you have done nothing so far to show that you are town.

A competent player would read my posts so far as the most ridiculously townie posts that ever existed in a game. The way I wanted a massclaim. The way I got frustrated with everyone being dumb. The way I'm trying to read people and questioning them. All of these things are just so genuine that anyone with even a decent level of experience would not even be considering me as the final mafia.

But you guys are incompetent. You actually believe that mafia instead of trying to fool you or buddy you or do whatever they can will immediately jump into the game and alienate you and say that you are being stupid. You WANT to believe that I'm mafia, and you are unable to separate that emotional aspect from logical reasoning. That way, everything I said about you being stupid is just me pretending.

If you acknowledge that I'm town, you also have to acknowledge that I genuinely think you were being stupid and when there's a grain of truth to what I'm saying, that can be hard to swallow.

So, you shut down. You just want to so badly believe I'm mafia and faking everything that you don't care about anything else. And when I flip town, you want to believe that it was my fault for losing so you can feel better about yourself. Repeat every game. This is why you lose. This is why you will remain incompetent no matter how many games you play.

Stop getting butthurt about being called stupid and actually look at Nahdia's play to see whether it makes sense as mafia.

[OceanWind]

I want to work with you, Ocean, but you do not get to be townleader when you haven't even read the game.

How am I being a townleader?

[OceanWind]

You're not. Why do you ask?

Because you just said I was in the post I quoted.

[OceanWind]

I want to work with you, Ocean, but you do not get to be townleader when you haven't even read the game.

What do you mean by this post, then?

[OceanWind]

How am I trying to put myself in that position?

[OceanWind]

No, nothing I've said looked like I was trying to lead the town so either justify that or admit you are talking out of your ass.

[OceanWind]

Oh wow Creature is still the center of discussion?

I'm not gonna lie, this is mostly a prodge because I've been busy IRL. But while skimming through the walls of text I noticed somewhere that Creature was at L-2 at some point and the wagon seemed too fast to me. So naturally I believe at least 1 scum in on the wagon. Especially since I was town reading Creature's posts thusfar anyway.

Voting VOTE: Ranger because she's picking and choosing her shots and being too careful.

I was under the assumption that his vote on creature was only the second and I wasn't really even sure if it was an RVS vote or not. Besides picking people who have voted for creature you have like 5 people that you could assume may be scum and Ranger is the only person you can really make a case for.


VOTE: ɀefiend

UNVOTE:

This game is boring and I don't have much to add right now. Creature vote is OK but I tend to avoid joining early BW's. zefiend leans town. Carry on.

VOTE: Reubus Swagrid
talks like scum

This series of posts looks like a blatant chainsaw. Can you explain why you thought ɀefiend leaned town and Rubeus Swagrid was scummy?

[OceanWind]

137 is honest and I happen to agree with everything he said except about Masquerade, whom I am of the opinion is town too.

I AGREE, CREATURE IS PROBABLY TOWN,,

MASQUERADE HAS BEEN SUSPICIOUS MORE OFTEN...

Can you point out some of these posts that is giving you these impressions?

These two posts don't look good for Masquerade. Both mafia had defended him indirectly.

[OceanWind]

I'm not a patient chick, OceanWind. When do you think you'll have time to read the game? Even if it's just skimming?

Can I get a response to this please?

On page 10. I should be finished over the next few days but I'll be posting my comments as I read through.

Didn't realize Pisskop was in this game though. I expect I'll be cringing through the next 20-30 pages.

[OceanWind]

I'm pretty positive you're town bc all you had to do to win here was vote Ocean but i'm not really one to second guess myself.

I agree on this point. That strengthens my townread on Will.

Still on page 13 and I hope to pick up the pace here but Will, if you can summarize your townread on Nahdia for me, that'll be great.

[OceanWind]

Everytime I open up this thread, I lose the motivation to read through tens of pages of mediocre scumhunting. I want to correct people and point out the things they are pushing are silly but they've already flipped one way or the other.

Another annoying thing is the constant complaints about stalling. Before Will saying that he preferred Masquerade to me, I was pretty much the default lynch. I fail to see what I would have gained by stalling. My best shot at winning regardless of my alignment is to catch up quickly and try to change everyone's minds. This is true whether I'm town or mafia. I'm plodding through the game because it is boring. So, just shut up about stalling. And I'll comment on posts as I read so everyone knows where I'm at.

[OceanWind]

I'm really sick right now. Don't think I can make progress today but hopefully will be better by tonight/tomorrow.

[OceanWind]

That's an immature and childish request. I haven't been prod-dodging. I've contributed plenty in the time that I was here.

[OceanWind]

Sorry if I can't schedule when I get sick based on your convenience.

[OceanWind]

Replace me out of this game. I have 0 interest in playing with this table any longer.

Interesting reaction here. Why is Klingon using faulty meta a reason to replace out? Especially considering you suspected Klingon. You should instead have been focusing your efforts on lynching him.

[OceanWind]

I am but I decided to sit in front of my computer and go over this game.

[OceanWind]

ISO reads.

Kop

Not much to read here. Early posts a bit waffly/passive, such as 50 and 51. 171 felt very much like I was reading a townplayer without him having to explicitly say he's town. It was an unconscious implication. 185 was also solid, since scum tend to be more stubborn than this. It was a really good post but it was only one post. As a whole I believe the playstyle he lays out in 170. Really though I think my read on him is going to hinge on how his vote in 372 develops. I dislike votes where someone effectively says they don't have a reason more than naked votes. I'm curious to see if he can "put his finger on it".

Conclusion: Null

ɀefiend

Only 6 posts, one of which is RVS. All the posts are good though IMO. In 201 I like the outted logic. He shoots for Ranger who at least for me would have been the last choice from who the list for who scum would go for. His later posts are all really logic heavy and while I don't necessarily 100% with all the logic (I guess I'll cross that bridge when I ISO them) I don't see scum coming out swinging this hard when he's been this inactive. A lurking scum is trying to fly under the radar and zefiend clearly isn't going for that.

My qualify to this read is that he has so few posts and most were all in a short span of time. There's zero

development

and that's largely what I try to read based on.

ɀefiend, have any of your reads changed over time? Do you still fos Ranger and MsGreen and townread Creature and Masquerade?

Conclusion: Townlean

So far:

Town: {}
Townlean: {Masquerade, ɀefiend}
Null: {KainTepes, Kop}
Scumlean: {Reubus Swagrid}
Scum: {Klingoncelt}

Here's a snippet from Nahdia's ISO reads on page seventeen. Most notable here (as in other Nahdia posts at the beginning of the game) are the townreads/leantowns/nulls on both flipped mafia.

[OceanWind]

Ocean, if Nahdia is scum then why don't you care more about Will trying to lynch me?

I'm not sure why I ought to care. You are not getting lynched unless all three of us vote you - meaning I have to actively cast a vote for you to get lynched.

I did ask Will to explain why he's townreading Nahdia though and I'm waiting for him to get back to me on that.

[OceanWind]

Not necessarily, I might selfvote just to get this game over with.

Why would you do that? You'd throw a game that you've played in for months because you can't be fucked to actually analyze anything and give reasons for your reads?

Thing is, if you're town you should be more in a hurry to get your case on Nahdia out or talk to Will about why he thinks I'm scum (unless you're ok with the stuff he's brought up so far but you haven;t gotten around to say anything about that and I don;t care because imo you're scum anyway) because the way this is headed now is a big disagreement that might end in a no-lynch while you were the one that WANTED A LYNCH!

Let's be clear: I'm not confident that you are town. If I were, I'd have already voted Nahdia and have been pushing to get her lynched. There were a few things I noticed from my re-read of you that were suspicious, not to mention your current whining for me to defend you rather than doing it yourself.

We're not going to no-lynch. We have six days left. Even if we no-lynch, it's not the end of the world. We'll have another day to figure it out.

I;'m seriously going crazy rn of frutration.

Will for crying out loud whie the peanut butter from your eyes and read Ocean's posts.

I'm done.

Bye.

You are getting frustrated at all the wrong things. You have not once went through the game and posted your reads and thoughts. You haven't once tried to figure out which of me or Nahdia are the remaining mafia. You have bitched and moaned about how I'm the one (and the most hilarious part is you're wrong). This is going to get you nowhere.

Spell it out for me why you think Nahdia is town.

[OceanWind]

just feels like you're looking for openings while continually deflecting when you're asked to actually take a stance. that's why i'm voting you. your play textbook scum mylo/lylo. to me, you're weighing your options and deciding on the best push.

You fucking tool. I've replaced into the game a week ago - a game you've been playing for months. What are you expecting - that I'll have concrete stances that I'm so certain about that I'm willing to bank the game on? I'm leaning towards it being you but Masquerade's play - to put it plainly - sucks. The only read I'm confident in at this point is Will as town. Between the two of you, I need to figure out which of you it is.

You can try and scumpaint everyone of my posts as "hedging his bets" or "looking for options" but as town trying to figure out the game, that's exactly what I need to do - look at all the options and possibilities.

[OceanWind]

I was town.

Your latest post is hilarious considering Will said he wouldn't vote me and then hammered when he got the chance which was an obvious scumclaim.

Getting voted by two fools with six days on the deadline clock when I was sick has got to be the highlight of my mafia career. Bonus points since I never had the chance to even catch up.

Not even going to count this as a loss in my wiki.

[OceanWind]

Seriously, this game began at the beginning of March - you had all of March, April,

and

May to figure this out and still got it wrong. Would it have killed you to give me six more days to read and analyze the game? And if the day went on to no-lynch, a kill on anyone other than Will would have caused some re-evaluation on Will. Then we have people like Masquerade offering to self-hammer.

[OceanWind]

You did not even bother to wait for Will to explain why he was townreading you. And when I replaced in and demanded that Will claim, both of you fuckers acted like that was a first degree crime.

I hadn't even gotten to the part where anyone readable was in Will's slot on my read-through of the game. (KainTepes was a troll).

[OceanWind]

That's not even the point. It's the fact that you were so certain when you were so wrong that you weren't even willing to consider all the options nor wait to see what I got from reading the game. Neither of you had any sort of reasoning or basis for your reads. Masquerade flat-out just bitched and moaned about how Will wasn't seeing his side which is horrible play if he's town. Your play of actually accusing me of being mafia because I was willing to consider all the possibilities was even worse.

[OceanWind]

If Ocean hadn't been all 'now let me tell you idiots how to play mafia' and instead had been 'ok we need to solve this no-lynch or massclaim?'

1. So, you wanted me to teach you how to play mafia while pretending that that's not what I'm doing? Got it.

2. There is no circumstance under which a massclaim wasn't warranted in MYLO. That's not my opinion. That's a fact. My frustration came from the fact that you didn't understand why, yet you chose to play in a regular game instead of in the newbie queue. Even then, I explained to you in great depth why a massclaim was needed.

3. So what if I said "let me tell you idiots how to play mafia" (which I'm not sure I said by the way so no idea where you got that from)? Did you honestly believe that mafia are more likely to say that than town? If you did, you are deluded and are believing what you want to believe. If not, you voted with your dick rather than with your head.

it would have been a LOT different. Also the constant responding to Nahdia and me while you should have been reading up so you could contest our reads. YOU were the new one in the game, you should have seen when I wouldn't stop scumreading you that you had to change your way. I will not let myself get insulted.

1. I was reading up while I was responding to you. I'm not sure why that's a problem. You are just making shit up.

2. Yeah, I was the new one in the game. I asked you to explain several times why you were townreading Nahdia. You didn't know. It seemed to be some magical spell you were under.

3. Iblockhead


Well done Nahdia, I don't mind losing to you at all [/quote]

I was reading up while res

[OceanWind]

3. I wasn't going to change my playstyle because you were getting offended, you blockhead.

[OceanWind]

I was willing to talk about Nahdia but I was scumreading Ocean so I wasn't going to do the work for him. He was supposed to come up with reads, discuss with me why he thought my read on Nahdia was wrong. If he was townreading me, why act like I'm his enemy?

No you weren't. You are a liar. I pulled up old quotes of Nahdia's showing she was chainsawing her partners. Your response basically amounted to "waahh, Ocean is scum, why don't you see it Will? How better can I grovel at your feet to make you see it Will?"

[OceanWind]

I have a decent amount of trouble figuring out which of Will or Masquerade played worse. Masquerade voted me and never removed his vote which was bad enough but a TOWN player quick-hammering another takes the cake.

[OceanWind]

I'm like...pretty good at this game

I've barely put any time in and voila, you get a victory

I wash my hands of the incompetence of both of you. I was just tired of having this game in the back of my mind when it was already solved and I couldn't be fucked to spoon feed it to you any more

You are a fucking moron.

I;'m seriously going crazy rn of frutration.

Will for crying out loud whie the peanut butter from your eyes and read Ocean's posts.

I'm done.

Bye.

You too.

Not because you were wrong but holy shit, the language and arrogance in both of your posts. I admit I was arrogant as well but at least I was right.

[OceanWind]

Nahdia chose her night actions well bringing a pair of dunderheads into mylo. Other than that, it was pretty obvious she was the remaining mafia - and it didn't take reading the game in its entirety to figure that out.