Open 651: Stack the Deck (Game Over)

[Hebee Inc]

Hello, sorry guys, hebi head here. I've been busy and I forgot the password and beeboy took a bit getting it to me. I'll go read through the game and get some reads.

[Hebee Inc]

Town
NJAC
kyndy101

Unreadable
SoraAdvent
superbowl9
Vedith

Null
light_ganski
Raskolnikov
HighHopes
kraska77

Scum
Lycanfire

[Hebee Inc]

All you guys are unreadable like crazy.


~Bee

[Hebee Inc]

Lycanfyre is scum because he is RVSing really late into the game. I know that this game is unreadable (at least for me) but there is at least something he could have done that wasn't trolly/do nothing. There is a difference between not being in the thread like a majority of these players and posting and reading the thread but not actually solving the game.


NJAC is town because I said so, there is something about the nature of his posts that I like although I know that isn't enough to town read someone.
120, 139, 162 and 175 are town posts.
kyndy1 83 and 85 where both town posts. 137 feels more like town because I think it is unlikely for scum to try and confbias someone incredibly hard this early in the game before 5 slots have decided to post.

VOTE: Lycan

[Hebee Inc]

^ ~Bee

I am having a lot of trouble reading this game in all honesty. Probably because I am bad at catch ups as town and also a decent chunk of slots haven't even posted lol.

[Hebee Inc]

@Vedith: mind responding to my post here, please?

I assume you mean these parts -

1) Regarding the first point: I think you're completely misunderstanding what I'm saying at all. Why would I bother asking about meta not once, but so many times, if I already knew how you played? It'd be a useless waste of time.

- Because you fucked up

2) My statement on the types of post you make are based on your past behaviour. I posted this in 156 as well, which I think sums up my thoughts about how you've posted, and is what I'm referring to when I refer to your posts as such.

- Why would how I am posting all game give me justification for certain posts?

3) I presume that for your third and fourth point you're asking me about me about this post I made here.

- I don't know what my 3rd or 4th point was as I didn't actually do it in points, I made a post.

4) For your next point, I posted my reads before High Hopes did and have modified them only very slightly.

- I didn't say you posted them after, I said they mirror up.

5) How do I defend your vote on Kyndy in any way? I said that you're arguing against me on kyndy back in 156, and that's good.

OK, the vote on you was an RVS vote. He may have forgotten he voted you at this point, though I'm not too sure about that considering he's aware of the votecount. Don't want to discuss his reasoning as imo it's irrelevant to the discussion.

You justify why my vote is there and even call the issue irrelevant.
With your response, it confirms that you saw my vote as an issue and felt it was a scummy action to keep it on Kyndy.

Was there anything else you wanted me to go over on your post?

1) If I knew your meta, you'd see me use it in my case against if you if and when I could - I've stated multiple times that I haven't read it before, hence my need to ask around. I don't get why you think that my posts imply a knowledge of your meta by any means, but that's a semantic issue that I've already explained (and that superbowl has explained far better than I can). When I mention that you 'always act like this', I mean that your actions are consistent with your past behaviour within the game.

2) Because then your actions can be explained as less scummy, as instead they're part of your personality, if you understand what I mean. For example, while I may initially read some of your posts as scummish (relatively short bursts of posting, very reactionary style), upon looking at your past behaviour they can become less so. This is also part of the reason why when I have more time I intend to read up on your meta: if I can determine that you play like this even in your town games, it helps me form a better read of you instead of relying on my own tells (which may or may not be outdated/flat-out wrong)

3) What I meant was the third and fourth lines in post 222, starting from 'This could be' to 'Vedith being Vedith'.

4) You mention that I'm scum in the post, then mentioned that my posts are similar to HighHopes. Since you're placing me under suspicion by calling me scum, I assumed that the reason you said we have similar reads was because I was sheeping him, and that to you is a scumtell. I stated what I did based on this, because I posted my reads before HighHopes had posted and modified them slightly.

Therefore;
If you mentioned that HH and my reads are similar because I copied him, that's not true because I posted first.
If you mentioned that HH and my reads are similar for another reason, why did you do that?

5) I mentioned you were aware of the votecount at the very end. While I say it's an RVS vote and that you may have forgotten about it,

I also mention that you're aware of the votecount

, and thus you have no excuse for not being aware that your vote is on kyndy. To be fair, I did hedge my arguments, and you can criticize me for that.

I think you're misunderstanding what I meant by reasoning. By reasoning, I don't mean the reasoning for. If you take a look at post 97, you mention "As scum, why would she want to give town less options to focus on, and more of a chance to focus her?". I didn't want to discuss this as I thought it wasn't the main point of kyndy's argument, which was that your vote was still on her while you were arguing against it.

All in all though I definitely think we're spinning wheels and I'm leaning town-ish on you right now so I'm not going to pursue this any further. Hopefully I can get the NJAC post up sooner or later, but it's probably gonna be tomorrow at earliest.

Why focus this hard on meta at all in this game? It seems like you're just letting yourself be open to more attacks that way.

Honestly I think you're likely town here and they're likely scum. You are pummeling yourself by giving this weak argument water with some crap meta reason. Meta's can change, and you admit you would find it scummy but "meta".

This does not strike me as TvT at all at the moment.

[Hebee Inc]

VOTE: Vedith

Till I catch up a bit more, consider me tunnelling here.

[Hebee Inc]

UNVOTE: Vedith. I'm going to have to swallow my pride and admit that I was completely and totally off on everything in this game so far. My focus over the next couple of days is to just go back and reread the game and focus on the Vedith/NJAC interaction in some detail. At this point I'm not even sure of any of my reads anymore. Before this, I'd like to address a few of the points made against me.

~~~~

Re: Vedith

I want to know your meta before this.

As for why I said it was Vedith being Vedith, I think 95's a perfect example of the type of posts you make.

Scum found.
You want to know my meta, but you imply that you know it already from the type of posts I make.
This could be Vedith not being Vedith, but you have already decided that this is Vedith being Vedith while asking for meta on me.
And you can't say that this is wrong, because you are responding to a comment about me with saying that it's my usual play, just to ignore it (TYhis is what I get from, Vedith being Vedith).

Your reads are basically mirror with High Hopes (Who I haven't decided yet if I think scum or not)

Why did I keep my vote on Kyndy? I wanted to see what scum would use this to their advantage. In 156 he defends me voting Kyndy, in 220 he uses it for an excuse to push me as scum, but in a subtle way.

1) Regarding the first point: I think you're completely misunderstanding what I'm saying at all. Why would I bother asking about meta not once, but so many times, if I already knew how you played? It'd be a useless waste of time.

2) My statement on the types of post you make are based on your past behaviour. I posted this in 156 as well, which I think sums up my thoughts about how you've posted, and is what I'm referring to when I refer to your posts as such.

To sum, his posts are non-comittal and reactionary, which to me are quite clear scumtells.

3) I presume that for your third and fourth point you're asking me about me about this post I made here.

4) For your next point, I posted my reads before High Hopes did and have modified them only very slightly.

5) How do I defend your vote on Kyndy in any way? I said that you're arguing against me on kyndy back in 156, and that's good.

After he goes off on how I'm wrong on kyndy (which is fair enough, argument is always good),

Back here, my vote was on kyndy and yours was on her as well. I don't defend you voting kyndy at all, and even say this in the same post.

His vote on you is not due to legit suspicion, he really hasn't formed a case on anyone yet

. But you're already getting defensive based on an

RVS vote.

I get that you may not have noticed it was an RVS vote, but it really is a little bit too defensive for my liking.

I guess you could interpret this as being supportive of your vote, but my intent was to say your vote was an RVS one and not based in fact, and Kyndy's overreaction to that RVS vote is a little worrying. I don't think I flip on it at all in my later post (220): I mention your vote is an RVS vote twice, and in both cases say that your vote is weak.

~~~~

Re: Sir Bastion

1) Yeah, apologies for my formatting issues. I can't find any way to make it easier to read, apologies. As for posting my train of thought, I have a serious problem with not being able to control what I actually say and get across.

2) I don't think I'm sitting on the kyndy wagon at all. I've been pushing for Vedith over the last couple of posts I've made, with NJAC as a close second. I'm keeping an eye on kyndy without being too commital as I'm watching for how her actions develop over the course of the next few posts. I'm unsure on her recent posts, and I don't want to force a read that I'm not sure on, and even more so now considering what happened when I believed Vedith was right.

3) I think reads are useful as a starting point and can be very helpful in kickstarting the game past RVS mode. I felt the game was already moving past RVS, but needed a little bit of a push to move things along. Knowing what reads people have is actually immensely helpful to see who they're potentially buddying with (in terms of who they're being soft on), but the act of providing reads in themselves can be analysed. From things like what tells they pick up on, to their structure you can really tell a lot about who a person is based on reads. Also they provide a really good discussion over whether a person deserves a town/scum read, and probably most importantly they force you to take a look at the game overall.

~~~~

As of right now doing some initial reading I'd say my initial read on NJAC was definitely wrong, but as I mentioned I'll get back to that later.

This is raising all sorts of red flags for me, smells of scum distancing.

[Hebee Inc]

UNVOTE: VedithFair point, I still like a vedith vote, but if we do this we should do this the right way.

VOTE: NJAC

[Hebee Inc]

I know. I'm just adding it to try to gain supporters. I just want to move light's wagon and see what happens.

*spit*

if you cant see why that was stupid I may need to revisit my read of you.

The NJAC train is still arollin'.

Alternatively Sora or Lycan are good lynches.