Open 653: C9++ [Game Over!]

[Firebringer]

I came here mostly to chew bubble gum

[Firebringer]

ahem.

The bringer of fire has joined.

(Firebringer replaces Ariel)

You the best ducks

[Firebringer]

Firebringer have you already read the game?

No, I skimmed though have a few reads.
Not planning to read it in depth the last few pages was a cluster duck

[Firebringer]

welcome to hell

If I am with you, it isn't hell bb

[Firebringer]

No, I skimmed though have a few reads.

Cool. Where's your vote going? I think Karnos is a good spot.

Not sure. I only have townreads so far.
Copper and antihero are town.

[Firebringer]

Persivul is probably town too, he is less aggro as scum

[Firebringer]

It's day one, you have plenty of time to regret stuff buddy

[Firebringer]

i hope i didn't pull the trigger too early on writing off vax as newbtown

Try looking at him as scum first, and then try finding a reason (besides being newb) for him being town.

What?

[Firebringer]

VOTE: aquanim

[Firebringer]

Would you like to explain that vote?

Yeah, I think your posts are a bit scummy.

[Firebringer]

Leaning town on creature

[Firebringer]

It's what I do. I take the playerlist and label everyone as scum. I want to kill everyone, and then as people do townish things, I move them down the list of people I want to kill.

So if he thinks he labeled someone as newbtown too early, he can try labeling them as scum, and then try to find reasons (besides being newb) for them being town.

That's weird as hell.
Good luck to you on that

[Firebringer]

Would you like to explain that vote?

Yeah, I think your posts are a bit scummy.

Are there any posts in particular you would like to bring to the town's attention?

Not really, I haven't got the clincher that is made me sure your scum, just weird posts from you that I feel are odd. Maybe it's nothing

[Firebringer]

It's what I do. I take the playerlist and label everyone as scum. I want to kill everyone, and then as people do townish things, I move them down the list of people I want to kill.

So if he thinks he labeled someone as newbtown too early, he can try labeling them as scum, and then try to find reasons (besides being newb) for them being town.

Btw kind of think eager is town on this post, maybe more on that later

[Firebringer]

You guys are giving me this townread too easily.

Okay, I'll put you in scum pile till you earned it then.

[Firebringer]

the scum pt from a recent game i watched where he was scum: http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=94&t=67933

compare. does this look like the entrance of someone who struggles as scum?

nope

I guess that supports my read, never played with this dude just some things he said doesn't sound like something scum would say.

[Firebringer]

Being scum can be fun. Sometimes stressful.

[Firebringer]

Also, welcome to the game FB.

Nice to see you copper.

[Firebringer]

Not yet feeling a vax lynch guys, need more timez.

[Firebringer]

Can I get a prod strike against me? I have been a bad dragon

[Firebringer]

"using time because it's there" is another thing i think is ready for the trash bin

Here here!

[Firebringer]

Persivul is lynchbaiting.

No he isn't. Or your not using that term right, can't tell which

[Firebringer]

OK, I know nothing about mafia. I'm wrong every time I speak. I'll just STFU and come and vote every 47 hours or so.

Town

[Firebringer]

I think that if Karnos is scum, he found himself trapped on the TTH wagon - his initial RVS vote was for TTH, and under the circumstances I doubt he would have felt comfortable getting off without a reason which he felt was convincing.

I think scum-Karnos would have felt much safer staying on the wagon, even with lacklustre reasoning. His stated reason of "scum wouldn't say that about voting the IC because it's unsafe, as demonstrated by you... pressuring him over something else entirely?" is pretty lacklustre.

(this may be a double post, my last post was eaten by tigers)

I think your making up a narrative that didn't happen.

[Firebringer]

Prods

Firebringer: |

Good mod

[Firebringer]

After re-reading I think you have a point that you are free to play as you like and nobody gave us the book on how to play mafia (although the way I play works well for me), it's also good to have different points of view so drowning you out because you're not "mainstream" in this game is a bad idea.

Ehhhh this sounds like scum copper to me.

[Firebringer]

Damn it cooper now I am paranoid of you.

[Firebringer]

Copper*

[Firebringer]

Okay......I just find your approach odd to this.
It sounds like your sure that's how I happens and now your like "it could be what happened"

[Firebringer]

Alright, so how confident are you on a scale of 1-10 he is scum versus town?

[Firebringer]

Okay so what's your read on my slot?

[Firebringer]

what is with this eagersnake wagon btw?
Its really shitty.

[Firebringer]

tempted to vote vax on just him being on the wagon.

[Firebringer]

I am unsure of aquanim. I am going back and forth on him honestly.
Vax probably looks worse but I haven't dug deep into him and I don't remember him much from the newbie game I modded, but he doesn't seem much different from there and here (and he was town there).

[Firebringer]

my history is messy.

[Firebringer]

haven't updated wiki but I am above 150+ games played.

[Firebringer]

Vax looks worse, but:
- vax lynch feels too easy
- scum!Aquanim is more dangerous than scum!vax

Yeah...I kind of am inclined to believe Vax is probably just lynchbait here.

The iffiness I have on Aquanim is just the way he portrays his stances. He has these ideas and narratives for how and why stuff would go down in certain scenarios of alignments but isn't confident in any of them. I don't know about you, but most people I see and including myself when we start trying to piece together the info and come to "this is what happens" will turn biased towards it one way or another. Harder to become objective. He remains pretty much totally objective to the point it looks like he is just fence sitting. Though really fence sitting day 1 isn't really that scummy but the approach is just irking me wrong.

On the other hand I don't know, might just be his approach?
It just feels too weird.

[Firebringer]

lol I am almost fence sitting this point.
Yeah, Aquanim the more I think about it, the more I think you are scummy.

Want to answer to post 613 at all?

[Firebringer]

BTW, I am ALWAYS suspicious of anyone who gives way more town reads than scum reads.

Ive seen numerous players do this too. I don't think it works that well with ratio of town/scum. The game has way more town anyways like antihero points out. In fact as a newb scum once I went and gave way more scumreads (about 100% more) than the game actually had and town were townreading me based on that weird approach basically saying "why would scum be scumreading all these players?"

[Firebringer]

@FB
Aqua is either town or scum you will not catch today, which doesn't seem likely to me, much like what he said about his town-reads and town-leans.

Why not?
The approach so far has been to push either easy targets or people that aren't here right now (karnos). My wagon on Aqua actually is the better wagon imo.
Vax seems like waste of time.

[Firebringer]

I understand that point of view. I don't have any past experience with Firebringer (I'm guessing you do) so my read on him is hazier than it could be otherwise.

Normally the dragon annoys me cause he just sits there happily thinking we will town-read him due to his natural charm, but in this case I really liked Ariel's posting before the replace in and the part where he said he was paranoid of me makes a lot of sense for Firebringer town to have, even his reads are pretty original and show he is analyzing the game.

Pretty solid he is town.

You haven't earned back my trust yet.

[Firebringer]

I'll check Aqua's meta to see if you're onto something but what you are calling weird is just the hallmark of a rational player, that is how I often play (check my latest D1 mini) until I get above a reasonable confidence threshold with my scum-reads.

Easy and "more dangerous as scum" are not arguments I am interested in.

I think Persivul quote of Aqua voting Karnos without mentioning much is a little less than rational.
Even for a rational player I expect the approach to be different.

[Firebringer]

He has these ideas and narratives for how and why stuff would go down in certain scenarios of alignments but isn't confident in any of them.

Noticed that. Also didn't like:
322 - Bad transition. Reviewing his ISO and searching on "karn," his interactions with karnos don't justify the sudden vote. Some people play like that, but as talkative as Aqua is, it doesn't fit. Then:

329 - Says to AH, "is there any particular reason you don't want to vote for Karnos?" Reads to me like he's trying to get validation for a wagon he knows is bad.

I feel like I am conf biasing with all this.............

Usually when I am as confident as I am now that someone is scum day 1 I am horribly wrong.

[Firebringer]

It's pretty difficult to interact with somebody who isn't actually in the thread and talking.

Thats not a real answer to the vote on him originally.

[Firebringer]

There's not much to answer. My 'objectivity' and not jumping to conclusions is partly personal style, partly due to this being halfway through day 1, and partly a conscious effort on my part given the previous events of this game.

I get that, I do.
Its just from my pov all I see is you framing things in several different ways to see which one sticks the best and then going with that. Along with testing the waters for wagons and seeing who can and cannot be safely pushed.

Thats what I am seeing in your posts, not just "rational" playstyle.

[Firebringer]

It's pretty difficult to interact with somebody who isn't actually in the thread and talking.

Thats not a real answer to the vote on him originally.

If that's not an answer, what was the question then? Persivul was talking about how the vote didn't fit specifically in terms of my having had few interactions with Karnos. I have had almost no opportunities to interact with Karnos.

Is it unclear to you why I voted for Karnos at all?

If I have to infer its because of the quote edit you did in that one post. The point by Pers was you never really mentioned Karnos before that. Nor interactions. So it was weird.

[Firebringer]

The vote shift considering 320 and 322 is a bit abrupt, but I think that is due to him forcibly moving his vote away from a vacant slot to the next viable alternative he saw.

Scum reading Karnos makes a lot of sense for Aqua given his prior belief about the TTH wagon so that's not a problem for me.

Okay, so did you dig up any meta on Aqua?

[Firebringer]

Town

ANTIHERO
PERSIVUL
EAGERSNAKE
CREATURE

Leaning Town

VAXKILLER

NULL

COPPER223
KARNOS
FANCYPANTS

Null but one of these is likely scum if not two:

YURIA
DIXC*
PENGUINPOWER*

Scum

AQUANIM

[Firebringer]

You know thats the third time I have done that in a game.

[Firebringer]

becoming innocent child tends to make the player extremely lazy and apathetic. Its kind of a terrible role.

[Firebringer]

Also Penguin is a MU player. >.>
Going to hear silly MU phrases all game aren't we?

[Firebringer]

okay karnos is really avoiding this thread.

[Firebringer]

cause he has been posting elsewhere on the site for last few hours.

[Firebringer]

Firebrand

Is this a cool nickname for me?
I prefer being called "FireB" if your going to call me weird names.

[Firebringer]

How's IC boring? I had a lot of fun being a confirmed town treestump.

It is so terrible, its like being in a game where nobody cares to interact with you really because your role is confirmed and you can't read anyone by how they themselves read you.

It is bad.

[Firebringer]

How's IC boring? I had a lot of fun being a confirmed town treestump.

It is so terrible, its like being in a game where nobody cares to interact with you really because your role is confirmed and you can't read anyone by how they themselves read you.

It is bad.

I've never been IC but it sounds ideal, pure focusing on finding the scum without the worry of being mis-lynched.

You don't need to be IC to not worry about being mislynched.
Being pushed helps you understand players and them you which helps reads.

IC destroys the game by not allowing you to actually peek inside players minds better.

[Firebringer]

Its a bit of a pointless discussion but you're implying you can only get reads off players when they directly interact with you specifically rather than each other. Obviously when people interact with you you have an advantage because you know you're town but still.
The advantage is everyone takes you at face value since you are confirmed, they don't have to worry about scum misdirection.

That wasn't what I was implying. I was saying that interacting with someone and creating a dialogue with them is like primary number 1 best source for reads. Creating a personal dialogue to fully understand them.

You can maybe get that from just reading their posts, but it might not be enough.
And I don't get what you mean by "obviously when people interact with you have an advantage because you know your town"

The fact people take you at face value is 99% of the fucking problem. The dialogue ends there once your confirmed. They see what you say, they either agree with or disagree with it and thats that it. Theres no point in really arguing with a IC because trying to understand their viewpoint is meangingless since you know they are town.

[Firebringer]

/end rant.
Onto something else.

[Firebringer]

is anyone townreading fancypants?

not to my knowledge.

[Firebringer]

why are you guys still talking about tth?

[Firebringer]

I am running on very little sleep right now so I am going to have to read this interactions later.

[Firebringer]

hey anti, how was your sleep?

[Firebringer]

I do need sleeps.

[Firebringer]

Why are you unsure of Antihero?

[Firebringer]

Persivul has been force-replaced.

Noes! Me and persivul were just starting to mend fences.
Thats sad for me.

[Firebringer]

FOS: DixC

Why not just vote him and save the mod trouble?
That replace out was pretty scummy imo.

I wouldn't mind getting that slot off the mod hands:
VOTE: Dixc

[Firebringer]

I wanted to spend more time with this game but I got stuff to do today unfortunately.
Maybe later if I have time.

[Firebringer]

I like this new wagon.
can I make a request of my good frenemy Sri take persivul spot?

[Firebringer]

I like this new wagon.
can I make a request of my good frenemy Drk take persivul spot?

Drk

[Firebringer]

This new wagon is for the birds. So easy for scum to defend against tomorrow if dixc flips town, if everyone is seriously considering just lynching him before we get a replacement.

If your not, whats the point of L2 or L1 'ing a position that may not be filled for a while?

Eagersnake is living up to his name. If everyone suddenly switched to someone else I can guarantee he would follow... and anti accuses ME of only doing the popular thing!

I claim bird then. Do you think we should let this slot slide for its play so far?

[Firebringer]

This new wagon is for the birds. So easy for scum to defend against tomorrow if dixc flips town, if everyone is seriously considering just lynching him before we get a replacement.

If your not, whats the point of L2 or L1 'ing a position that may not be filled for a while?

Eagersnake is living up to his name. If everyone suddenly switched to someone else I can guarantee he would follow... and anti accuses ME of only doing the popular thing!

i like this wagon even more

Can i lure you over by swearing I will follow this up tomorrow?

[Firebringer]

i'm already there, n00b

well teach me how to be not a noob.

[Firebringer]

People have been trying to get me to read the game since like my first game. It hasn't yet clicked yet.
Maybe if people repeat it a few more times over course of a hundred more games ill get it.

[Firebringer]

VC 1.09

eagerSnake {1}:

Vaxkiller

DixC {5}:

Antihero, Firebringer, Creature, eagerSnake, PenguinPower

karnos {3}:

Yuria, Aquanim, copper223

Aquanim {1}:

Persivul

Yuria {1}:

karnos

Not voting {2}:

DixC, FancyPants

With 13 players alive, it takes 7 to lynch.
Deadline is in (expired on 2016-10-05 09:15:00)

Just looking at the names of the people on this DixC wagon should entice anyone.
Its like a townie fest

[Firebringer]

If DixC is scum, I am most likely scratching out Antihero.

Can you put me in bold?

[Firebringer]

I am not confident on my new townlean on him, but its mostly of his tone in this game.

[Firebringer]

I will renalyze karnos tomorrow if necessary.
Anyone not on the Dixc is becoming suspicious for me.

[Firebringer]

Has fancy pants been voting at all today?

[Firebringer]

Karnos probably needs to go. I don't have a town or scum read on him but he's just stalling the game at this point.
He has a higher chance of flipping scum than most, and his wagon will do us a lot of good one way or another.

I've become less certain of Vax on reread. I could see Yuria/Firebrand/Creature being scum as well.
I need more from the lurkers and then I'll see.

For now UNVOTE:

This post doesn't follow, wasn't this during the peak of the Karnos wagon?
ANd he decides to unvote here and not put his vote anywhere?

[Firebringer]

Also get the feel that if Karnos is scum so is FancyPants.

[Firebringer]

What about drixc wagon? It's the best.

[Firebringer]

Did we flip Dixc yet?

[Firebringer]

By eating him?

[Firebringer]

Btw, who do you think are the other scum?

FancyPants and maybe Karnos now.

[Firebringer]

6 friggin days left...

This isn't a newbie, we don't need to use every day of our time to discuss.

[Firebringer]

Actually newbies would be vastly improved if they didn't use all their time to discuss. Theres clearly points where they just dead activity of the thread that would be better if they just lynched someone.

[Firebringer]

Persi slot is so town.

[Firebringer]

NO MORE TWILIGHT DISCUSSION. IT ONLY HELPS SCUM. THANK YOU.

no it doesn't.
Especially if this flips scum, scum hate twilight discussion when one of their own gets lynched.

[Firebringer]

Honestly I have no idea how to feel about the dixc wagon but, okay then.

Plz lynch Karnos if I die. I'm like 99% sure he's scum.

Why would you die?
I totally think antihero is dying tonight.

[Firebringer]

I don't feel like rushing too much on this day guys.
But I also don't like fancy pants.

Did scum think persicul was pr? Only reason I see in killing not Mafia

[Firebringer]

Did scum think persicul was pr? Only reason I see in killing not Mafia

filler

Your face is filler

[Firebringer]

Your face is filler

filler

I am going to night kill you with my vigi blets

[Firebringer]

Not even half the players posted >.>

When I am the one saying we should take it slow. Jesus

[Firebringer]

Apparently my counting skills are terrible
L-3
In my defense I didn't count.

[Firebringer]

fire is working very quickly to destroy the strong townread i had on his slot

My plan is working.

[Firebringer]

fire is working very quickly to destroy the strong townread i had on his slot

I know what you mean but I think he is just being silly.

No I am not

[Firebringer]

Catching up, for now I agree with Persivul on the no-Karnos wagon

if you don't have any towncred to leverage, you're probably not going to enter the thread defending a buddy

my bet is that this is a whiteknight

Okay, what about fancy pants interactions with karnos?
Assuming fancy flips scum

[Firebringer]

VOTE: fancy pants

[Firebringer]

Meh yuria is probably town.

[Firebringer]

You saying fancy pants is master player? That sounds like typical newbie/shit distancing in my book.

[Firebringer]

If not Mafia was Vigi....That's sad

[Firebringer]

Well if it was SK I have no clue who it is. NM is like zero info kill.

[Firebringer]

Can I get scum read by saying me people for free?

[Firebringer]

I dont get it

My drunken state is hard to comprehend, as well as sober.

I meant "can more people scum read me, kthx"

[Firebringer]

A post game lynch sounds fun

[Firebringer]

my drunken self is just more of a asshole.

[Firebringer]

I am drinking this pretty sick fruity flavored vodka. Pineapple.

ITs great.

[Firebringer]

ohh noes I am out of this vodka.

[Firebringer]

how are you doing today antihero?

[Firebringer]

I think that joke makes it confirmed your scum with me copper.

[Firebringer]

I am to lazy to talk in PT, who should night kill tonight? I think vax he is dangerous.

[Firebringer]

You really think that was Vigi or SK kill?

[Firebringer]

For funsies I try to guess the power roles in games.
Sometimes I keep it to myself, sometimes I just out who I think has pr

I can tell you, my role is not VT guys

[Firebringer]

Persivul slot was not in my book as a power role

[Firebringer]

I don't doubt scum are demotivated.
But like I almost feel this game is too easy.

Like my townreads are just feeling really good.
The only one I am not sold on 100% is vax, but I think I'll sort him soon enough.

Town is: anti, creature, eager, copper, penguin.

So like only ones it can be for me are aqua, yuria, fancy, and karnos
Even yuria has been seeming more town.

I think this game is simple as fancy and karnos.
If SK I have no clue.

[Firebringer]

More I think about nm kill more I think it was done as a safe kill tbh

[Firebringer]

How is scum having a roleblocker relevant?

I am deadly serious. What about there being a roleblocker in the game makes it a bad idea for you to claim in the current situation?

He means claiming will do nothing but shut down the player because they will get role blocked every night.
Which is kind of stupid because if you don't claim then a possible other tpr will get blocked so it's silly not to claim because roleblocker

[Firebringer]

Don't worry, if it turns out there is an SK I know who it is because they are SK!telling out their ass. But we need to eliminate mafia, first.

I would like to know what an SK tell is.
Never been good about telling diff on SK vs vigi

[Firebringer]

I wonder who that could have been:
VOTE: Karnos

[Firebringer]

I want a perfect game peeps, if I am not around lynch karnos, I'll be very upset if you mess it up .

Which makes karnos even scummier, he would definitely consider a Yuria RB.

The last one is karnos.

.

[Firebringer]

For a perfect win

........................

[Firebringer]

intent to hammer

[Firebringer]

No.

VOTE: Karnos

[Firebringer]

I am sorry, trigger button itched

[Firebringer]

Whose that Pokemon?

[Firebringer]

I'd join you mod games, but there wouldn't be much benefit there except for you having to find a replacement.

You couldn't ruin my games if you tried

[Firebringer]

Don't lynch me, I am your neighborhood friendly serial killer.

[Firebringer]

You can't cc my claim. I crumbed my role and actions, did you?

[Firebringer]

antihero, how you doing buddy?

[Firebringer]

VOTE: Firebringer

I am tempted to sheep this if it wasn't for i already hammered

[Firebringer]

but seriously the power gradient for this setup is so seriously fucked. if you have a 1-shot cop + an IC + 2 or 3 of [1-shot vig/roleblocker/doc] on the town side, scum having a full roleblocker is fucking outrageous

NOT TO MENTION if it ends up being all three of the bracketed, scum also have a godfather so

LOL WE GOTTA TRIPLE NERF THE COP GUYS

The setup does indeed suck.

[Firebringer]

but seriously the power gradient for this setup is so seriously fucked. if you have a 1-shot cop + an IC + 2 or 3 of [1-shot vig/roleblocker/doc] on the town side, scum having a full roleblocker is fucking outrageous

NOT TO MENTION if it ends up being all three of the bracketed, scum also have a godfather so

LOL WE GOTTA TRIPLE NERF THE COP GUYS

The setup does indeed suck.

i know and it's run so often

i should do my own ++ setup

with blackjack... and hookers.

ill take just the black jack and maybe some hookers pls.

[Firebringer]

This game is so complicated guys.
Both scum so far have been lurker shits.

I can't figure this out.

[Firebringer]

Totes balanced.

[Firebringer]

you were not actually hammered

[Firebringer]

You have a nasty addiction to fake hammering you known hat?

[Firebringer]

I wonder how legit that reaction was by karnos?

[Firebringer]

Want to at least claim?

[Firebringer]

VOTE: Aqua
I like this more

[Firebringer]

There is no last vT what you talking about?

[Firebringer]

I guess that would be what you would call a town slip

Not really, more like stupid slip.

[Firebringer]

I don't know, Firebringer seems town.

[Firebringer]

I am the serial killer, but I am town serial killer

[Firebringer]

That's so scum sided lol

[Firebringer]

What are you doing you fools!
I am keeping this town alive.

[Firebringer]

VOTE: Firebringer

You will all miss me

[Firebringer]

VOTE: EagerSnake
For not even spelling my full name!

Wait is this rvs?

[Firebringer]

I was the MVP!

[Firebringer]

I was the MVP!

Meh. You're the only townie who was lynched.

Which is why I am MVP

[Firebringer]

*hugs antihero*