Open 659- Jungle Republic

[shamu]

This seems like an exciting game to play...

I actually know some of the people here so it'll be a good time.

Not quite sure why the votes from before day 1 were counted in it but...

Whats going on with this wolf stuff...

The votes from before Day 1 weren't counted.

[shamu]

Thought the werewolf thing was a joke cuz werewolf is an irl game played sometimes.

I realized that I completely glazed over the setup when I saw this.

Interesting how the werewolfs can't win unless they kill the mafia too.

I also checked how seer worked and it says and I quote "Seer may simply be another name for Cop, or it may be a Faction Cop (see Derivations) who can only detect Werewolves but not Mafia."

Is there clarification on this or did I miss it again.

[shamu]

alright - thanks for clarifying my questions when I got lost about all of it.

- Keyen what do you want to talk about.

To the person who gave a statistic (in percentage.) That stood out to me because I think no one would make a read just taking the 68%, not sure why or how someone would calculate that - but I'm fairly certain that that's a very unhelpful way of taking the situation.

[shamu]

Checked back in - is there a line on the 'foreshade' because on my reread I noticed that transcend voting me - which I did see the first time I just didn't post about it.

and uh... I don't know why.

I appreciate that you appreciate my questioning.

Will post more when there is more to post about.

[shamu]

The probability that you are correct is only 68%. Do you have further reasoning on this point?

How did you get 68%?

VOTE: Shamu

interesting way to say hi tenshii

I must wonder why you agree with me and vote me in the same post :p

Transcend is agreeable currently. I can confirm I'm town.

[shamu]

Additional note but for some reason the words kyouko is town keep coming to me.

Maybe it's the sunglasses, and I know it's early in the game but my gut is just telling me.

I really liked the Yo and their out of tune check on the math their. Not saying that liking math is a towntell tho.

[shamu]

Alright - you're gonna have to work on your lingo here.

I don't want to bring in my personal experiences, but I'm not able to tell you if you're just pushing me for being a nooblet or if I'm just an easy push.

I mean powertown transcend over here (he's powertown even when he's mafia) says i'm town so that has to mean I've done SOMETHING RIGHT.

Also uh can I have clarification on lingo (bars).

I feel like I had something else to say but this was purely responsive to tenshii-

[shamu]

I can't remember

A few things of note to me is post 75 where... IO very specifically said.

Well that - It's worded a bit awkwardly in my opinion.

Also It's a fallacy - not a truth.

[shamu]

Came back to check if there was content.

realeo's wouldn't be surpised is interesting - is it just because of the post I showed or are there more reasons for that.

I'm actually not quite sure why those 2 posts were spaced out like that but I feel like you could've developed it a bit more with some questions.

and at BTD - are there reasons why you think I'm town, it's nice to know that I'm doing something right but the fact that you went from 'weak townread' and then weak gut scumread implies that there are reasons for this.

It's my personal belief that every read should be explained - or at least they should try to.

I don't know how I feel about the posts after that.

and uh I don't really get the bars thing still.

[shamu]

I love content - and I find keyen... interesting, I mean for one thing he says I'm scum because of a gut feeling...

then when he votes me he says it's a reaction test...

nice going there.

I assumed RT stood for reaction test - as it's been the topic throwing around.

But beyond that I'd like to go into the verdith - transcend thing.

This is, actually very strange to me. But for some reason I feel like verdith is dead serious? While normally I'd just ignore this and move forward, I think he actually believes that transcend is scum...

and in this case transcend, the powertown is going to absolutely destroy verdith.
even when transcend is scum he's powertown.

I hope people will elaborate more on reads outside of verdith/scend. It was nice having some new blood posting but when it's just the same people it's kinda hard to do things.

[shamu]

VOTE: Transcend

Let's try.

VOTE: keyenpeydee

anyone need context for this or?

also I dunno what's up with tenshii - I wish it was easier for me to look at more posts while I type this up.

[shamu]

I have 2 questions - there are little icons on the Central park and they each have a small symbol, a fire, a sun, a heart, and ours has none - what does that mean.

And Tenshii - did you vote have any significance besides asking me a question that you could answer yourself?

the answer is yes jsyk

[shamu]

Doesn't that mean night day phase from sun moon and locked etc?

Idk that's why I asked.

What does the heart mean then? and why doesn't ours have a symbol?

[shamu]

This may be the most confusing thing I've ever said in a game ever but...

I just had deja vu about this game.

And I feel like BTD6 is going to carry it.

That was weird as fuck to say but like for some god awful reason I had deja vu?????



beyond that, I have made reads - I'm sorry that I haven't formatted it in a rainbow shaped funnel down to the bottom.
Like - I think any read I have is both implied and practical. And if you don't see that than whatever, I'll care more if more people find the need to ask.

[shamu]

There isn't much to go off here, I wish people where here more often - does anyone need to be prodded.

beyond that I think trying to force a lynch here is worthless - and even if there is one [scum/ww] in verdith/transcend, there's still a solid 4 outside?

Anyways if I'm pretty sure my vote is scum, like, more sure than I have been in a game for a while - I just haven't seen them adding anything to the game, and I really find it awful when people push me off of nothing.

[shamu]

Could the acting mod prod some players? It's been 12 hours since the last post.

I understand that people are busy - but theres almost nothing at all right now.

Maybe no one deserves to be prodded but at least in a larger game like this I expect more content.

[shamu]

Could the acting mod prod some players? It's been 12 hours since the last post.

I understand that people are busy - but theres almost nothing at all right now.

Maybe no one deserves to be prodded but at least in a larger game like this I expect more content.

prods are 48 hours - but burgerking still needs to be prodded.

On a personal game related note the wobbufet guys only input upon being prodded was to vote, maybe he'll come back more.

Sorry if this is just me being selfish because i want more people active in the game.

[shamu]

@Mod Requesting updated VC

Also Shamu, you can't complain about there being no content considering that you denied answering a question that was asking for more content.

Wrong: the answer throughout the game has been implied and littered, for gods sake i'm VOTING someone, this is honestly a really pushy statement that makes no sense in context.
You're the only person who seems deadset on pushing me - there are other people who haven't even outted half a read, and I've given 3-4? or at least implied them.

[shamu]

Very happy with this hammer by the way

Although apparently self voting is a town thing (?)

[shamu]

I'm curious about the read on me as ww myself. Granted I fully expected to die after leading on WW as such. Even if you expect me to be a noob from that kill (also unexplained) - can't you do any better than that - I can't actually see how someone looked at the kill to determine me scum instead of reading my content or my push.

I'm just kind of dissapointed in that route as a whole and frankly doesn't want me to treat you as town.
You probably are town though. Won't say why.

After keyen flip I haven't really found a new direction - after i get onto a computer I'll be more useful, just wanted to repond to this specific post.

[shamu]

You fuckers! It took me to almost the end of page 16 to realize that wasn't Trans talking.

relatable and acceptable

I also thought it was transcend talking to himself about me the entire time and I was confused as heck.

I was about to vote tenshii - but apparantly he's a town slot? If anything I found his push on me d1 to be strange, granted not as strange as keyens.

Also, the reason why I put the question mark in the brackets (?) was because I wasn't quite sure if that was even sound logic. If I ever say something that means that I'm unsure on the dignity/logic of that line.

I don't put the questionmark to throw up my own post. So here I might say

Tenshii is town because Transcend said so (?)
^ I don't believe that.

Especially since in my very first game I had been scumread for an entire day for even TALKING about self hammering.

I'm not very confident in general, so someone has to be at least pretty scummy for me to want to vote them.

[shamu]

Shame I'm also not Mafia.

Is the a reason you directed that to me.

On another note the reason why I'm not voting yet is because there are 2 factions and I we should be specifically lynching for mafia?

I mean I still think tenshii is a scumslot but if a better player is gonna tell me otherwise who am I to fight it.

[shamu]

Shame I'm also not Mafia.

Is the a reason you directed that to me.

On another note the reason why I'm not voting yet is because there are 2 factions and I we should be specifically lynching for mafia?

I mean I still think tenshii is a scumslot but if a better player is gonna tell me otherwise who am I to fight it.

e and u may both be vowels, but they are not the same letter.

I wish I had a good reason for that, I'll just say it was my fault for posting right when I woke up and my eyes were blurry or something. On another note you say shame a lot.

[shamu]

I'm gonna be honest I haven't posted as much content as I woulda liked due to finals and stuff - so I'm gonna make a comprehensive post of the IO wagon.
First thing that stood out to me was 75 I believe and I made a post on it. Here she actually says scum with me, but we can take that however we want.

Vedith voted IO - trying to figure out which dog is which is actually hard. Vedith actually has had this read throughout the game, the only thing of note to me is that he called IO scum with Trans, and when he said trans was town didn't flip IO to town but that's practically nothing.

Transcend has had the read as well, at least from his list of reads on D2(?) as well as a lean scum read from D1, looks more like a sheep w/ vedith.

Titus actually threw out an IO scumread before voting Tenshii, however you may take that. 480.

On Realeo - I actually am not sure why IO was voted here - his last post was unvoting but it looks very specifically like he either sheeped the wagon or voted IO because of Titus - he was the one who pointed out the titus read earlier I think. (I'm reading in ISO's)

And lastly Tenshii - low key just a lynch dodge - I believe the the two reads they've outted this game are Realeo!scum and Keyen!Town, they also voted me basically all of d1.

also apparantly burgerking voted IO and also said their first lines all game woooo!!!!!
Transcends post about reading burgers ISO really stands out to me.

Actually while doing all this reading most of IO's post seems kinda forced or stiff - just on an overread not any in depth analysis.
also this just makes me want to vote tenshii more if that matters.

[shamu]

Maybe the only reason I'm not is because
A. I think they are more wolf then scum, idk what you mean by the whole tenshii can't be wolf thing or whatever. Realeo's post about the seer is pretty much why I haven't at this point.
B. I actually think my vote is meaningless here and at least to me I only try to vote when I don't care what happens - the last thing I want is to stifle the day with a quick hammer (which tenshii undoubtedly deserves) I'd love to hear more from poli burger and kinda BTD as well.

[shamu]

Yeah the jokes are forced, just looking at the dog pile one and the Verdith one.
Besides that there's not really anything forced. Most of the time I just say what I'm thinking at the moment.

Well I was really only talking recently

Also sometimes the periods make me read the sentences differently so it doesn't have the same flow?
I mean I still don't think the votes on you have been justified (besides 75)

still want more content.

[shamu]

Io is getting on me for lack of reason for voting her yet whenever I ask her questions she's always dodging. Aka not explaining her actions.

Shamu's recent posts were hypocritical when it comes to his willingness to vote me or not vote me.

Inactive slots are inactive slots.

Shamu is scum for calling me mafia and not voting me! After explaing why!

I can't believe it he caught me...

[shamu]

SO WHAT'S WRONG WITH THE WEIRD DYNAMIC

1. Titus later explained that he beleives in a {Io,Transcend} scum. This is consistent. The one that is confusing is the decision to flip from Io to Titus? What was the basis. Both of them is equally scum, eh? WW and Mafia? Is the {Io,Transcend} only came after progress?

2. IO jumped the logic twice. The first is the minor one where he didn't ask for Titus' reasoning. The second was this.

You never bus a 2 scum team. That should be just common sense rule #1 of Mafia. You will just lose if you bus your partner with only 2 players.

Yeah I don't get it. Saying it's just common sense or you'll lose isn't an actual justifcation. Also by using the 2 scum team bus logic, isn't this comparable to the White Flag Gambit?

Tenshii did a well done rebuttal there.

I don't remember Io is the kind of person who is taking things for granted???

Actually with this very specific logic that you outted, wouldn't the logic given be IO town Titus scum tenshii ww.

Or even IO scum titus scum tenshii ww.

This isn't necessarily the logic I'm using - but I think those are the next logical steps reached with your logic about the strangeness of the interaction. I will say that this actually incriminates titus more than anything else in the post.

I actually had this post half open for a while now and then came back to it - there are 2 new posts now but I don't think it changes anything I said here.



SO WHAT AM I TRYING TO WRAP AGAINST MY BRAIN?

I was trying permutation like {Io:Town, Tenshii: Town, Titus:Mafia} or {Io: Mafia, Tenshii: Town, Titus:Werewolf} but it just doesn't click? I cannot find the right combination.

[shamu]

Shamu? Explanation?

Holy crap I typed a whole block of analysis about your post.

I don't want to anymore... but the gist of it was - with the analysis you made I think the natural conclusion was something along the lines of

Titus mafia - Io town - tenshii werewolf

Titus mafia - Io mafia - tenshii werewolf

I had a whole block about all the stuff and about how the lines are more indicatively on Titus and how tenshii just inherently fails to interact and how it basically shows that theres one, if not two people who are non town in that block.

I hope this suffices I just can't be bothered retyping all that.

[shamu]

Even though you said you have a wolf read on me even though there wasn't a Realeo seer post that prevents you from voting me. You also said that I should be quicklynched, even though you're not down to support it with a vote.

Actually me voting is fairly rare in these forum games - usually I don't at all unless I have major issues with someones lines or context. I can't tell you why I didn't vote you earlier - I've actually been pretty swamped with work and haven't been checking as much, but as of right now I actually want more conversation in the day, with more conflicting reads and conflicting reads it looks like theres a lot to move forward with and it. Say you're lynched and you flip mafia, then the people trying to save you are likely also mafia. If I lynch you and you flip werewolf I suppose that's the least telling, and if you're town then I know more likely where to look (Titus).

I've already gained a lot from you not being lynched as of right now. I don't see why I can't get more.

I also believe the reason I didn't vote you was because IO was being voted by others who I deemed muuuuch townier - which was strange to me.

I guess I'm only humoring you because other people say you're town for reasons still absolutely unknown to me.

[shamu]

Realeos the one giving analysis here, and trans is throwing out a tenshii!town read or whatever. But on Realeo he had a block of text about a train on IO/Tenshii. Followed by the question about Titus being mafia. I'm actually dead certain that theres either some logic I missed or he didn't put in chat here.

The way I see it Titus/IO/Tenshii has at least 1 scum(nontown) in it. Probably 2 for that matter. So Realeo goes out and throws an IO/Tenshii town read and then pretty much implies that he hasn't considered Titus as mafia. (or is just asking me what I think.) I mean I was taking it from his analysis since he's the only one actually typin crap in. I think specifically because of the strange interaction between the 3 that was pointed out theres gotta be scum, it's not like attitudes change the game. Unless you've played with these people before you probably don't know how they would play as scum.

So my question for you is, if IO and Tenshii are town. Who's scum. There are 4 I believe right now - and you've already marked off 3.

[shamu]

Welcome! This game kinda skimmed to a halt so more is always welcomed. Not sure what to say about your slot thought...

[shamu]

I'm going to be honest my last post was just me typing something up without adding content to the game, at this point whatever I was thinking by not hammering has not been here. While I wanted more from the two new slots at this point I'm wondering if just hammering will be telling.

Also just something of notice - Io isn't really fighting hard even though by all means she should be as the lynch?

I think I'll be able to add more later, I guess I'll go with

Intent to hammer

[shamu]

Alright

Well looks like nothing changed so

VOTE: Io

[shamu]

I almost don't know how I feel about what happened.

I seriously doubt that Titus is seer here - The thought never crossed my mind, two replacements during the night and still no opinion on flubber.

I actually think the BTD kill came from WW trying to kill scum.

Also I thought vedith was seer basically this entire time and thus town - mainly for a few offhand reads that were unexplained but - I think this game needs more input before I decide to 180 all my reads.

[shamu]

Has no one thought for a second that this could be a fake claim?

When IO flipped town I basically had both Titus as mafia and Tenshii as wolf, so Titus claiming here set off a few alarm bells in my head. I mean granted I can't expect to be 100% right, but is there seriously nothing suspicious about that claim?

Of all people I didn't expect Transcend to just instantly believe it at least. Even verdith voiced suspicions.

[shamu]

Yeah, you want the werewolf to get an extra kill or something?

You say I am suspicious, but don't say why. No one fake claims here unless desperate.

It would help if Realeo were here since he was the one who constantly gave lots of analysis, a lot of the stuff he said I do agree with, and the interaction throughout this game has not been worthwhile, if I bothered I could find all these numbers.

But sure let's say you're real and flubber is werewolf, then that means that we have to lynch

8
T - T - T - N(amed towny) - W - M - M - M

7
T - T - T - N - M - M - M

Or,

8 T - T - T - N - W - M - M - M

Lynch mafia and werewolf kills into town.

Lynch town and werewolf kills into mafia.

So of course the latter is stronger with no argument.

I also find it strange that it was so easily believed - of course it's still best to lynch the report. If it isn't WW then WW will just kill Titus to not force a loss.

So I think whatever happens here lynching flubber is probably best play. It's just seriously strange to me that -

A. Titus is town

B. Tenshii is not werewolf.

When basically the rest of the game has seemed otherwise - I'll go more in depth when it's not 4 am.

[shamu]

If anyone votes wrong the entire scum team can blitz

This sucks because i townread all 5 of you at one point

My strongest tr is probably Realeo / light

Yeah this is probably really important - not voting here, if one person votes wrong then it's over.

I'm just not gonna bother with whatever. The seer should vote and then call it good, but it is important for us to discus.

There's 3 mafia here, and I wouldn't be surprised if transcend - his townread are the last 2 towns besides me.

[shamu]

I'm caught up via skim. I like Tenshii, a lot. I also hate shamu, that's where my vote would go.

It's not even like you said scumread or townread you just said that you hate me

I'm dying

I really am

[shamu]

It seems that you guys just dodged a bullet, either the mafia team wasn't coordinated enough (which is what I'm thinking.) Or Transcend is mafia.

I'd say LicketyQuickety is one mafia here for hopping onto the vote at least.

I do have to say that Realeo/Light is a townslot, no clue how Trans got a read off Tenshii like that.

I'm actually somewhat dissapointed in the lack of content throughout this day at least. It might just be because of Christmas or Finals, but regardless there isn't enough for me to lead into a conclusion at all. I just have to use my reads from the past days. I wish more people cared more about the fact that we have to lynch correctly or lose.

This day is probably the most important one, since after this day we'll have another 2 lynches to use to get mafia.

We just have to not mess this up.

[shamu]

Reasons why Transcend is town and reasons why Realeo are town are actually fairly easy.

Tenshii has had an extremely awkward d1, I will say that I had them pegged as werewolf basically throughout the game, but it's entirely possible that he went for me as a 'supposed easy push'.

Verdith was my seer read on D2, with their extremely strange tunnel on Transcend, almost without basis. His reads supposedly flipped because of a seer read on transcend. I can point out the reasons I specifically thought Verdith was seer but it felt like 'breadcrumbing.'

ISO burgerking, and then read the content Lickety has provided. As well as their quick vote on me (with transcend) when if he was town, (and transcend was mafia) would've been a loss (at least to him.) He's outted almost no reads except that he thinks i'm scum etc etc.

Therefore even with this scumteam Realeo and Transcend would be mafia. Of course I think that Realeo is town for the amount of content provided and effort into the game, and even the replacement light seems to be working for the benefit as well.

Of course these are reads after the Seer reveal.

I actually think Transcend is town because they've explained some things that may not have been necessarily obvious, as well as the verdith interaction with him. Of course I'm not going to push away a scenario in which he's mafia, but I sincerely doubt that the Verdith/Transcend interaction would be two mafia doing that on D1 as some kind of plan.

{Realeo}
{Transcend}
{Tenshii}
{Verdith}
{Lickety}

Sorry for not providing all of these observations until earlier. I was waiting to see how the replacements did in the game so far, and my inability to do much of a post for the past day or so.

[shamu]

I am still going to stand by the reads that I outted earlier, I don't think anything can really change what happened in the past few days. The only notable thing is that Tenshii is actually doing things that make sense from a town perspective today, in contrast to his lackluster past few days.

Verdiths outrage is ??? but if he's replaced then I suppose it'll be easier to reread the slot. It's really frustrating for transcend to call me scum here, I've basically been calling him town in my mind and I'm not sure why he's doing it. While I will stand with my past reads, it's annoying trying to accept what transcend is saying when he hasn't really given an adequate reason to flip his reads.

Realeo is more town than everyone in the game so far and he's not even here.

[shamu]

Who objects to

Transcend Vedith LQ

Versus

Tensii Light Shamu

Do not vote

Why did you just arbitrarily lump all of us into groups

like I get that there are 3 mafia, but isn't it important for us to lynch mafia today and then tommorow we'll have another 2 lynches to not mess up.

I mean the teams aren't formed without basis, but this is completely feasible, but theres no reason to group us up, we just need to lynch 1 mafia today.

[shamu]

Who objects to

Transcend Vedith LQ

Versus

Tensii Light Shamu

Do not vote

Why did you just arbitrarily lump all of us into groups

like I get that there are 3 mafia, but isn't it important for us to lynch mafia today and then tommorow we'll have another 2 lynches to not mess up.


I mean the teams aren't formed without basis, but this is completely feasible, but theres no reason to group us up, we just need to lynch 1 mafia today.

Humor me.

What kind of humor do you want

I can tell you that I want the lynch in lickety and verdith today, and that both are likely mafia - and that after that lynch we'll have another opportunity to lynch mafia, in fact I'd just lynch upwards from my scumlist and call it a game set and match.

Probably the only thing that could possibly change this would be whoever is replacing in to somehow be townier than everyone on the pile.

So if you want your humor take it.

On another note as you're the 'named towny' here you have to be the one to vote, and make everyone vote with you.

I think it'd be hard pressed to get more, but with new people (as town) they should have a different outlook from the game, which is why I especially have someone like realeo (or light) but mainly realeo still at the top.

I do think that tenshii has changed for the better from his past 2 days but ... why is that change coming from someone in one slot? Which is why I've set him as tentatively the most townie probable mafia.

Transcend is consistently a cocky player, I find his blind confidence but also the fact that he's having a good time to be town indicative. Probably.

[shamu]

I was about to post a long winded comment about how I was sorry for being busy throughout christmas eve and day and then.

So have all of you.

Curious about the decision because you haven't said a single comment, but wouldn't you like to discuss it before you make a (possible incorrect) decision?

I mean the first thing you did was try to arbitrarily lump us into groups when we just need to lynch 1 mafia.

[shamu]

It's really hard for me to vote here - no matter how badly I want to because a single town voting wrong is a loss.

Titus still has to be the one to vote (as the confirmed clear.) Maybe if I could be more active I could vote and unvote at sight of three voting all at once but...

Regardless I'm sorry to hear that you have depression - maybe dropping out of all your games is a good choice.

Therapy is proven to be beneficial, as well as antidepressants so you should try them out - if this one doesn't work don't be afraid to try different ones, most importantly take care of yourself.

An online mafia forum game is not at all worth your health.

Just putting that out there.

[shamu]

Tell me if I got this wrong - mafia is transcend - or lickety tenshii (or some amalgamation of the two.)

of course with the assumption that both transcend and LQ aren't mafia.

And with Realeos slot being town I still end up with... the exact same scumlist.

I'm still waiting on you to vote here titus.

[shamu]

{Realeo}
{Transcend}
{Tenshii}
{Verdith}
{Lickety}

807

Top to bottom

[shamu]

ok so maybe tenshii was scum, otherwise some combination of {NM,shamu,light_ganski} would've blitzed me by now.

ISO nm



do it

I'll just kind of leave that there before I sleep

[shamu]

Shamu, would you vote LQ?

If you're asking would I I'll tell you

I want you to

I don't want to.

Does that make sense?

In the purely hypothetical world where lickety is the worst town ever and is just very depressed.

We lose.

On another hand my crippling lack of confidence is the only thing stopping me from voting him yeah.

[shamu]

It does.

Unfortunately, LQ did nothing pre revelation for this game, so...

I have no idea whether you want me to vote or not - so I'm going to tentatively NOT do that

and you can go bother other people for your master plan.

or you can just vote yourself and get mafia that way.

[shamu]

Seer was supposed to vote first...

and tell everyone to vote with them....

[shamu]

let's add some insult to injury [/v] Transcend VOTE:

[shamu]

let's add some insult to injury [/v] Transcend VOTE:

I'm an idiot VOTE: transcend

[shamu]

It was Realeo saying

Boom

and

This needs to be locked.

You aren't missing much.