OPEN 663: STACK THE DECK (GAME OVER)
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davesaz HeSurvivorHe
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Mafia have secrets.
VOTE: Secret Agent JinWanna play Minecraft with your ms friends? Check out the minecraft thread, or the channel on discord-
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davesaz HeSurvivorHe
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PyP X/Y is my favorite setup but I like anything with some randomness to the roles.
My least favorite role is bodyguard.
Don't think I have a preference for alignment.Wanna play Minecraft with your ms friends? Check out the minecraft thread, or the channel on discord-
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davesaz HeSurvivorHe
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In order to wifom once people call you on it.In post 137, Dunnstral wrote:
To play devil's advocate for myself, not sure why I'd make such a big deal of it as scumIn post 130, ThinkBig wrote:In post 102, Dunnstral wrote:It's about intent. Get off of me. I'm not getting lynched. Vote Gamma.
I find these two posts to be an over reaction and I'm not liking post 103.In post 103, Dunnstral wrote:Next thing you know I'll be l-5 followed by l-4Wanna play Minecraft with your ms friends? Check out the minecraft thread, or the channel on discord-
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davesaz HeSurvivorHe
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Pressure is more useful if the target doesn't know you're voting merely for pressure.In post 136, Superhans wrote:
I can get behind a pressure wagon.In post 135, Dunnstral wrote:
He's not engaging in anything while being here, very odd for him.In post 117, Superhans wrote:@Dunnstral,
Why are you voting Gamma?
Would you want to convince other players to do the same?
MARIA is also trying to be as scummy as possible it would seem
VOTE: Gamma Emerald
Also note to myself to see if the quoted post becomes relevant later.Wanna play Minecraft with your ms friends? Check out the minecraft thread, or the channel on discord-
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davesaz HeSurvivorHe
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Did either the comments you were replying to or the reply itself advance your reads on those players?In post 111, ssbm_Kyouko wrote:Oh I guess there was something to comment on. Disagree with you realeo about thinkbig only have 2 options and I don't like his questions because they could be potentially intended to rolefish in some way. Problem is this particular fish might be town, and I've seen him ask the same questions before in a game I was spectating. Either that or he copied his questions from that game. Not sureWanna play Minecraft with your ms friends? Check out the minecraft thread, or the channel on discord-
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davesaz HeSurvivorHe
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I don't think I've ever posted anything that Dunn didn't think is scummy.
Inability to comprehend my playstyle perhaps?Wanna play Minecraft with your ms friends? Check out the minecraft thread, or the channel on discord-
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davesaz HeSurvivorHe
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V/LA till Monday.Wanna play Minecraft with your ms friends? Check out the minecraft thread, or the channel on discord-
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davesaz HeSurvivorHe
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@mod: Dunnstral and I voting for a cloned player?
Fixed!Wanna play Minecraft with your ms friends? Check out the minecraft thread, or the channel on discord-
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davesaz HeSurvivorHe
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Yes, thanks!
The Gamma wagon is in response to a clear joke based on username. It doesn't really make sense to me yet but I would need to slow down from catchup speed to see if I've missed something about Gamma's reaction to being wagoned.
I don't remember the basis of the Realeo wagon and would need to reread.
The SAJ vote was RVS. I typically don't move it until I have an actual scumread. That usually takes quite a lot of content in the thread. IIRC this game already had an unusually high filler ratio but I'm not positive about it.Wanna play Minecraft with your ms friends? Check out the minecraft thread, or the channel on discord-
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davesaz HeSurvivorHe
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Does that mean you think it wasn't a joke? Or that you think the wagon was for a different reason?Wanna play Minecraft with your ms friends? Check out the minecraft thread, or the channel on discord-
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davesaz HeSurvivorHe
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In post 262, grapes wrote:(ssbm_Kyouko, Gamma Emerald, algebra, Secret Agent Jin)Realeo ( 4 ) -
(Kop, MariaR)Superhans ( 2 ) -
(ReubenWasFine, ThinkBig)MariaR ( 2 ) -
(davesaz, Dunnstral)Secret Agent Jin ( 2 ) -
(Superhans)Gamma Emerald ( 1 ) -
(Realeo)Not Voting ( 1 ) -
Gamma's wagon popped up really fast. I agree that there is not much content there, but don't know that it rates such a quick L-2. Though I do endorse the idea of wagons as town, to try to get movement. I want to examine which votes seem opportunistic there. Unfortunately most of them are going to come across that way. Realeo and Desperado still stand out for placement and CW reasons.In post 291, grapes wrote:(Superhans, ThinkBig, Realeo, Desperado, Kop)Gamma Emerald ( 5 ) -
(ssbm_Kyouko, algebra, Secret Agent Jin)Realeo ( 3 ) -
(ReubenWasFine, Gamma Emerald)Desperado ( 2 ) -
(davesaz, Dunnstral)Secret Agent Jin ( 2 ) -
Not Voting ( 0 )
I see Realeo as having more posts but much the same kind of posting as Gamma. MariaR/Desperado slot is similar as well.
I'm only partway through reviewing the game, still getting impressions on everyone...Wanna play Minecraft with your ms friends? Check out the minecraft thread, or the channel on discord-
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davesaz HeSurvivorHe
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counter wagonWanna play Minecraft with your ms friends? Check out the minecraft thread, or the channel on discord-
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davesaz HeSurvivorHe
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Which is not enough to go on by itself of course, but important to recognize.Wanna play Minecraft with your ms friends? Check out the minecraft thread, or the channel on discord-
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davesaz HeSurvivorHe
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Which post and why do you think it's scummy?Wanna play Minecraft with your ms friends? Check out the minecraft thread, or the channel on discord-
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davesaz HeSurvivorHe
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I'm not sure what you mean by "acting like I didn't do anything". Am I trying to disclaim posts or something?In post 309, Dunnstral wrote: These ones. I thought they were scummy at the time. I didin't vote you and you can stop acting like you didn't do anything
The question is why you thought they were scummy. Do you not want to answer that question?Wanna play Minecraft with your ms friends? Check out the minecraft thread, or the channel on discord-
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davesaz HeSurvivorHe
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Yeah, I had already noted the lack of content.In post 311, Realeo wrote:Gamma is capable of making content when the RVS is over, fyi.
However the timing of when the wagon happened could be important. Whether the people who voted were voting because of the joke, the joke seems to be the trigger on timing. The first vote after that point could have brought Gamma to the attention of the others. That happens to coincide with Desperado being voted. It makes me wonder if there is someone who doesn't want Desperado votes.In post 300, davesaz wrote:I agree that there is not much content thereWanna play Minecraft with your ms friends? Check out the minecraft thread, or the channel on discord-
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davesaz HeSurvivorHe
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That's not going to help sort your motive, but whatever you like...In post 313, Dunnstral wrote:They're scummy because I felt like they were. If I wanted to make a case it wouldn't be off of those two posts.Wanna play Minecraft with your ms friends? Check out the minecraft thread, or the channel on discord-
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davesaz HeSurvivorHe
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Posted around 12:15.Posted around 2:19. (2 hours later)
I think this looks like a player who arrived just after a VC and did catchup by iso of the players on the biggest wagon. The 2 hour gap shows that there was plenty of time to do that.In post 329, Antihuman wrote:Lol everybody who's sheeping the Gamma wagon "cause he posts fluff" should take a good fucking look at ThinkingBig
The catchup post has a lot more detail than I'd expect from scum trying to pick someone at random to push to derail a wagon on a buddy.
Not sure why y'all are reading it that way. I'm open to being convinced. Is there something wrong with the points in 329?Wanna play Minecraft with your ms friends? Check out the minecraft thread, or the channel on discord-
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davesaz HeSurvivorHe
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Best guess, Kop hasn't read and unvoted in response to the prod.Wanna play Minecraft with your ms friends? Check out the minecraft thread, or the channel on discord-
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davesaz HeSurvivorHe
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Wanna play Minecraft with your ms friends? Check out the minecraft thread, or the channel on discord-
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davesaz HeSurvivorHe
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I said y'all because couldn't remember who and didn't want to interrupt writing my post. Plus it helps to see if anyone else thought that by the replies...Wanna play Minecraft with your ms friends? Check out the minecraft thread, or the channel on discord-
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davesaz HeSurvivorHe
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Please explain why you'd expect people scumreading one to scumread the other.In post 409, Realeo wrote:@To the people who are voting AntiHuman
If you scumread AH, how come you didn't scumread ThinkBig?Wanna play Minecraft with your ms friends? Check out the minecraft thread, or the channel on discord-
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davesaz HeSurvivorHe
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Do you think they did similar things or something?In post 414, Realeo wrote:
I'm having hard time processing why people are triggered by AH, but not by TB.In post 412, Dunnstral wrote:Also why are you trying to push it that one of AH/TB has to be scum?Wanna play Minecraft with your ms friends? Check out the minecraft thread, or the channel on discord-
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davesaz HeSurvivorHe
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Why do you feel such a need for others to share your read?In post 445, Realeo wrote:Am I the only one who didn't townread ThinkBig? Why I feel alienated?Wanna play Minecraft with your ms friends? Check out the minecraft thread, or the channel on discord-
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davesaz HeSurvivorHe
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I'm not sure what your reads on the two slots are.Wanna play Minecraft with your ms friends? Check out the minecraft thread, or the channel on discord-
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davesaz HeSurvivorHe
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I'm trying to get him to answer that for himself...
I thought that I had made a very good analysis of the timing of AH's first substantial post. I don't see why anyone would think the intent of that post was to derail the Gamma wagon.Wanna play Minecraft with your ms friends? Check out the minecraft thread, or the channel on discord-
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davesaz HeSurvivorHe
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Just realized I've been reading but not posting.
In retrospect I think MariaR did indeed crumb traitor. Too late at night to dig further but I can vote at least.
VOTE: DesperadoWanna play Minecraft with your ms friends? Check out the minecraft thread, or the channel on discord-
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davesaz HeSurvivorHe
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I do not agree with the common assessment of AH's entrance. I think he ISO'd the people on the biggest wagon and posted a legitimate case on one of them as a form of catchup.Wanna play Minecraft with your ms friends? Check out the minecraft thread, or the channel on discord-
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davesaz HeSurvivorHe
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I still think Desperado would be the best lynch.Wanna play Minecraft with your ms friends? Check out the minecraft thread, or the channel on discord-
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davesaz HeSurvivorHe
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Unofficial VC
Antihuman ( 5 ) - (Gamma Emerald, Desperado, ThinkBig, Alisae, Superhans)
ThinkBig ( 2 ) - (Antihuman, Realeo)
Desperado ( 2 ) - (Dunnstral, davesaz)
Realeo ( 1 ) - (algebra)
Gamma Emerald (1) - ssbm_Kyouko
Not Voting (1) - Kop
8 hours remaining
I still have doubts about Antihuman being scum but it's in town's best interests to avoid a no-lynch. And I could be wrong...
VOTE: Antihuman
That should be L-1. Superhans' vote was not because ssbm_Kyouko had moved off.Wanna play Minecraft with your ms friends? Check out the minecraft thread, or the channel on discord-
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davesaz HeSurvivorHe
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And now we're back to L-2 with Desperado's vote change.Wanna play Minecraft with your ms friends? Check out the minecraft thread, or the channel on discord-
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davesaz HeSurvivorHe
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Because the others are blind?In post 671, Desperado wrote:Why have Dave and Alisae been pushing me as traitor all day but are both fine voting AH and could never get a real wagon going on me?Wanna play Minecraft with your ms friends? Check out the minecraft thread, or the channel on discord-
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davesaz HeSurvivorHe
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TBH after the AH flip my reads need a complete redo. The things I saw that made the Desperado slot look like traitor need to be analyzed a different way, AH's replace in needs to be reread, and there is all that wagon analysis to be done. It hasn't helped that my screen time today has been severely limited.
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davesaz HeSurvivorHe
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Being late in the "batting order" due to timezones and lifestyle is kinda annoying because it makes me look like a sheep at times, but...
I agree on the analysis of AH/TB interactions. TB is probably scum. I actually thought AH's "case" was pretty good -- but traitor can pick a partner to get the attention of and it fits perfectly for that scenario.
VOTE: ThinkBigWanna play Minecraft with your ms friends? Check out the minecraft thread, or the channel on discord-
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davesaz HeSurvivorHe
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Donotclaim because of this PSA. If you have a role and choose to claim it for other reasons I'd recommend not unless they're good reasons.
A goon cop inno is only a real inno if there are only 2 town PRs. If there is a 3rd town role then mafia could (but is not guaranteed to) have a role which would return not a goon.Wanna play Minecraft with your ms friends? Check out the minecraft thread, or the channel on discord-
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davesaz HeSurvivorHe
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I should start compiling a list of how often spurious rolefishing accusations are made by scum vs. town.In post 928, Desperado wrote:But dave's rolefishing was noted.
Especially ones after the poster has explicitly warned people to not accidentally reveal themselves.Wanna play Minecraft with your ms friends? Check out the minecraft thread, or the channel on discord-
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davesaz HeSurvivorHe
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In post 941, Dunnstral wrote:
??In post 932, grapes wrote:10 days, 4 hours, 57 minutes remain until deadline.
There was like 13 days left when you claimed?Wanna play Minecraft with your ms friends? Check out the minecraft thread, or the channel on discord-
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davesaz HeSurvivorHe
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TBH I was not accurately keeping count, but I think this is wrong.In post 950, Desperado wrote:Who gives a shit when the deadline is? Both wagons were L-2.Wanna play Minecraft with your ms friends? Check out the minecraft thread, or the channel on discord-
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davesaz HeSurvivorHe
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I've been super busy. I've made it a point to finish out games that I start, and I do expect my activity peak to slow down eventually.
I'll run through my reads to see where I am.
Superhans - Town
Desperado - Actions have been pretty scummy. It's possible my traitor read on this slot was because it was scum seeking the traitor.
davesaz - Town
ThinkBig - Actions of AH push scum here. I think I haven't paid close enough attention to the content because of the clear scum implications... Could be misdirection and AH wasn't trying to crumb at all
Kop - Really can't get a handle on him. Thinking he seems more disinterested town but I have trouble remembering the meta here.
Dunnstral - Town
algebra - ConfTown
Realeo - Getting mixed signals
Gamma Emerald - Claimed a town role, don't remember especially scummy interactions, but interactions would indicate scum if not overruled
Alisae - Had been thinking town, not as sure recently
Putting that in order
Town - Superhans, davesaz, Dunnstral, algebra
TownLean - Alisae, Gamma Emerald
Null/Scumlean - Kop, Realeo
Scum - ThinkBig, DesperadoWanna play Minecraft with your ms friends? Check out the minecraft thread, or the channel on discord-
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davesaz HeSurvivorHe
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I'm using things that happened before you joined the game.In post 1063, Desperado wrote:Have you read anything I've said w/r/t AH and ThinkBig?Wanna play Minecraft with your ms friends? Check out the minecraft thread, or the channel on discord-
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davesaz HeSurvivorHe
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For the record, I'm not even trying hard yet. But I do believe everything I've posted.In post 1061, davesaz wrote:I've been super busy. I've made it a point to finish out games that I start, and I do expect my activity peak to slow down eventually.
If you scumread me for that you're an idiot. That might be a scumtell for other people but not for me.Wanna play Minecraft with your ms friends? Check out the minecraft thread, or the channel on discord-
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davesaz HeSurvivorHe
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You're making an assumption that my post targeted any specific player.Wanna play Minecraft with your ms friends? Check out the minecraft thread, or the channel on discord-
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davesaz HeSurvivorHe
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Crumb
Crumbs are by scumIn post 246, MariaR wrote:Crumbing roles are something I expect scum to do more then town but it really is NAI unless it's leading up to someone being under pressure.Wanna play Minecraft with your ms friends? Check out the minecraft thread, or the channel on discord-
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davesaz HeSurvivorHe
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But I'm seriously not crumbing I'm scum, move along.In post 249, MariaR wrote:I don't really think it's something to dwell overWanna play Minecraft with your ms friends? Check out the minecraft thread, or the channel on discord-
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davesaz HeSurvivorHe
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Why didn't preview show more posts?
My current TB scumread is completely unrelated to originally thinking Maria/Desperado slot was traitor. My TB scumread is based on thinking that AH as traitor did indeed try to reveal that he <knew> TB was scum.
Now suppose I'm wrong about AH's intention, and he was trying to push TB as a mislynch. If scum had really wanted to mislynch TB based on AH's entrance case they might have pulled it off that day. I certainly agreed with that case. The only reason I didn't jump on it with both feet is a number of people I was hard townreading didn't like the case. I never believed AH was scum and was really surprised he flipped traitor.
I can easily accept that y'all think I'm wrong. I'm often wrong as town, sometimes spectacularly wrong. But I have to play it like I see it.
BTW this message brought to you by virtue of me ignoring a meeting in progress to type it. The team is looking at code which is unlikely to have any bugs. But I'm going to need to actually appear like I'm working so further replies may be seriously delayed.Wanna play Minecraft with your ms friends? Check out the minecraft thread, or the channel on discord-
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davesaz HeSurvivorHe
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Pedit: in response to Kop's post and the conversation leading to it.
So many fallacies
There are more games with traitor than the ones you've played
Not all setups with a traitor have the possibility of a recruit
There could be players who have never seen the role and don't know how it "should" be played (according to your preconceived notions)
There could be players who think differently about the role and play it differently than "standard"
There could be a situation where a player wants to play differently than they would otherwise
Several of you are missing something entirely. Scum would want to know who the traitor is, but my opinion they have no reasonable motivation to post anything about it. (not necessarily though, my last point above applies here)Wanna play Minecraft with your ms friends? Check out the minecraft thread, or the channel on discord-
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davesaz HeSurvivorHe
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Reinforcing my other post -- why would scum anybody push anyone as traitor? Ideally they'd want town to overlook the traitor possibility, as the true function of a traitor is to slip by even if all the scum are caught.In post 1264, Desperado wrote:I just don't understand why Dave scum would push and vote me as the traitor, or how a wagon didn't form on me if his buddy wasn't already pushing that theory with him.Wanna play Minecraft with your ms friends? Check out the minecraft thread, or the channel on discord-
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davesaz HeSurvivorHe
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There are much better ways for scum to push a mislynch. They should use anything but traitor as an excuse. I honestly can't see how this is even a thing! Yes, townie me saw something which happened to be wrong, and I pushed it, townies do that all the time.Wanna play Minecraft with your ms friends? Check out the minecraft thread, or the channel on discord-
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davesaz HeSurvivorHe
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It looks like Kop is painted into a corner.
His scumread Gamma claimed a town PR but his vote is still parked there.
The wagon on TB has wound down so it's pointless for him to jump there now.
He sees people nibbling at me but not voting. Desperado doesn't seem viable, most people are townreading {Superhans, Realeo, Dunnstral} and Regfan is conf.
Plenty of scum motivation for waiting it out instead of digging a deeper hole by trying to press something that is implausible.
VOTE: KopWanna play Minecraft with your ms friends? Check out the minecraft thread, or the channel on discord-
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davesaz HeSurvivorHe
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Kop, why would you RB ssbm_Kuyoko when you SR Gamma?Wanna play Minecraft with your ms friends? Check out the minecraft thread, or the channel on discord-
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davesaz HeSurvivorHe
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Thoughts on Kop's target? Seems pretty sketchy to me.Wanna play Minecraft with your ms friends? Check out the minecraft thread, or the channel on discord-
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davesaz HeSurvivorHe
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VT/
Dunn might be scum who realized I've got his partner dead in my sights.Wanna play Minecraft with your ms friends? Check out the minecraft thread, or the channel on discord-
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davesaz HeSurvivorHe
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Nothing you say?In post 1416, Dunnstral wrote:
This argument is really bad/lazy; he's talking about Kop here, but I was voting that as well a while ago, up until the claim, and he's implying that he actually did anything for the kop wagon, which he didn't, he just hopped on at the end againIn post 1411, davesaz wrote:VT/
Dunn might be scum who realized I've got his partner dead in my sights.
I don't think it's a real thought process that he thinks I'm scum with Kop for voting him, if davesaz is scum here he's either setting up interactions with his buddy Kop, or he wants to lynch a pr
In post 1336, davesaz wrote:Kop, why would you RB ssbm_Kuyoko when you SR Gamma?Wanna play Minecraft with your ms friends? Check out the minecraft thread, or the channel on discord-
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In post 144, davesaz wrote:I don't think I've ever posted anything that Dunn didn't think is scummy.
Inability to comprehend my playstyle perhaps?Wanna play Minecraft with your ms friends? Check out the minecraft thread, or the channel on discord-
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In post 861, davesaz wrote:and lifestyle is kinda annoying because it makes me look like a sheep at times, but...Being late in the "batting order" due to timezonesWanna play Minecraft with your ms friends? Check out the minecraft thread, or the channel on discord-
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Despite my otherwise head on playstyle, I do occasionally make tongue in cheek comments and employ sarcasm.
I fail to understand why people scumread it. My town play is so obvious it borders on being illegal.
All you have to do is accept that (aside from rare jokes and the occasional reaction test) I honestly believe everything I type.
I'm never afraid to be wrong, I'm never afraid to not know the right answer (more often, not have an answer at all).Wanna play Minecraft with your ms friends? Check out the minecraft thread, or the channel on discord-
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Alisae has Kop as "town, genuinely ..." in the same quoted post. (different wording than mine)
I thought, eh, I remember not thinking that about Kop back then so I re-ISOd him.
Turns out he looked at the setup back then, in enough detail to notice traitor is 1-shot BP.In post 241, Kop wrote:
I didn't realise it's BP until I looked at the setup specs. It's one shot though, but obviously that doesn't mean anything, just means scum won't shoot that slot again.In post 224, Dunnstral wrote:mafia traitor is bulletproof btw so they wouldn't even dieWanna play Minecraft with your ms friends? Check out the minecraft thread, or the channel on discord-
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I don't follow this - how would scum Kop confirm Realeo as town?In post 1493, Regfan wrote: 1. Mafia selected 0 Additional PR's, Kop is scum. In this instance Gamma & Realeo are confirmed town.Wanna play Minecraft with your ms friends? Check out the minecraft thread, or the channel on discord-
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^ Correct but this is also possible WIFOM positioning Gamma for a lynch if not killed.Wanna play Minecraft with your ms friends? Check out the minecraft thread, or the channel on discord-
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I slept the last 13 hours or so. Was in/out of napping at computer another couple hours before that.In post 1746, Superhans wrote:@Davesaz,
Why aren't you commenting mate? Your last post was almost 3 days ago.
You're clearly online, you've commented today already.
I can understand that laziness may cause town to not post, but its really really not helping us.
In the middle of reading about 5-6 pages of catchup. Not amused by the full page quote pyramid.Wanna play Minecraft with your ms friends? Check out the minecraft thread, or the channel on discord