Open 670: Near Vanilla (Over)

[Elena Fisher]

Hello.

[Elena Fisher]

I'll be re readhing and drinking my morning coffee ah nothing to start the day like a good round of mafia.

[Elena Fisher]

VOTE: BBT
This is a nice wagon.

[Elena Fisher]

@BBT: Leave Riley alone.

@Elena: We meet again. How are you? I heard about your recent game.

I'm doing quite well LUV! Enjoying my morning how are you

[Elena Fisher]

Preach on that I'm not done reading yet took a bit of a break but I feel like BBT made a really bad post that pinged me may I ask for your thoughts?

Any starting wagon is fantastic. It just happens to be you this game.

Why do you believe that any starting wagon is fantastic?

Information.

Why are you trying to look busy?

The reason this pinged me is it was a shade throw at nebula for trying to ask a simple question when I didn't see any bad reasoning at all for asking the question he did it's not like it was pointless (if it was then you can make a side argument but still)

[Elena Fisher]

Care to say why or we just gonna discredit and move on?

[Elena Fisher]

Ah there's already 2 wagons interesting alright I'll focus on BBT tomorrow I'll read the others

[Elena Fisher]

Also, even if I was wrong and he was jk it would be better this way.

Let me ask you a question, luv. What is the town motivation for softclaiming in this set up?

The only person that has some motivation to softclaim is the jk that wants to let the doc know who he is. If he softclaims and mafia picks it up and the doc misses it then jk is dead. Thats why softclaiming is a dumb play here. Either hardclaim or stfu.

this isn't actually half bad

[Elena Fisher]

@magna- no, I don't think sesq and nebula are both scum. There's no associative reason why not, I just find it hard to believe both lead wagons ever are. But they're both scummy.

If one flipped town you'd lynch the other?

[Elena Fisher]

@magna- no, I don't think sesq and nebula are both scum. There's no associative reason why not, I just find it hard to believe both lead wagons ever are. But they're both scummy.

If one flipped town you'd lynch the other?

I mean I'm not sitting here saying I'm trying to set up future lynches, but yeah I'm not NOT saying that.

So the yes is your answer that if one flipped town you'd vote the other alright thanks.

[Elena Fisher]

VOTE: Neb

[Elena Fisher]

We lynch this then BBT.

[Elena Fisher]

Toto seems like really headstrong stubborn town to me btw.

[Elena Fisher]

Because he's scum

[Elena Fisher]

I'd think you'd be more concerned about who I'm voting today instead of tomorrow

[Elena Fisher]

I do like a challenge. Also can you soft pr harder please didn't get it the first time.

[Elena Fisher]

I'd think you'd be more concerned about who I'm voting today instead of tomorrow

I've already made my decision on nebula so wasn't so interested in that. But looking back I see you haven't explained why you're voting him. So why?

I saw a few posts I disliked it was like he was trying to come off as stubborn and not help the town if he wants to be anti town and scummy I'll vote him.
Pedit: Oh dear

[Elena Fisher]

I will policy lynch Riley at any point in the game without question btw

[Elena Fisher]

I haven't seen so much wall posting (or quote walls) in a thread before it looks like there's a lot but maybe it's just me taking in the info wrong. don't really have any confident scumreads at the moment have a tr on Toto and Hiraki

[Elena Fisher]

I don't really like a Hiraki wagon I do feel like nebula is scum Sesq seems to just feel like clueless town to me with the early claim and the way he's defending himself

[Elena Fisher]

I don't really like a Hiraki wagon I do feel like nebula is scum Sesq seems to just feel like clueless town to me with the early claim and the way he's defending himself

Why are you concerned that he is hard town reading your scumread?

Where did I say I was concerned?

[Elena Fisher]

Ah I was reading down and just a answered and it doesn't matter depends on

why

he scumreads them it has to be genuine and I'll be the judge of that

[Elena Fisher]

In this case he's the judge of me and I don't really care if he townreads him doesn't change my outlook you can have reads that are 100% dif from mine if your actions line up nothing will change

[Elena Fisher]

Having different opinions is cool and all, but shouldn't it be at least discussed? He refuses to explain his town read on someone who is very likely about to get lynched. Isn't that weird?

Yeah I'd say so

[Elena Fisher]

I don't really like a Hiraki wagon I do feel like nebula is scum Sesq seems to just feel like clueless town to me with the early claim and the way he's defending himself

Why do you feel she's clueless?

"Idk why I'm getting wagoned :/" + the defense

[Elena Fisher]

You may have but they're still acting like they have no idea

[Elena Fisher]

Well that's a pretty weak defense if they're scum. I'll do a re read again soon with that in mind

[Elena Fisher]

Why wouldnt he want to explain reads as town though?

Why would scum not want to do normal town things like explaining reads I don't see why scum would draw attention to themselves like that

[Elena Fisher]

I honestly think you're wrong but you believe you're right and that's scary. I have a lot more to re read ( I did catch up but a lot of it was me just glazing the thread) so I'll take another look at him but I do think you're wring

[Elena Fisher]

Someone who is doing wrong but believes there in the right is without a doubt one of the most scary things

[Elena Fisher]

hmmm....

How do you know I'm wrong?

VOTE: elena

Because your scumread is wrong simple.

[Elena Fisher]

Someone who is doing wrong but believes there in the right is without a doubt one of the most scary things

This isn't actually answering the question.

What is it with people and dodging questions

That was answering part of your question just because you don't get an answer you're happy with doesn't mean it's a dodge. I think he's wrong on the scumread because I think there town use common sense it's not a hard thing to fill in the blanks

[Elena Fisher]

Someone who is doing wrong but believes there in the right is without a doubt one of the most scary things

This isn't actually answering the question.

What is it with people and dodging questions

That was answering part of your question just because you don't get an answer you're happy with doesn't mean it's a dodge. I think he's wrong on the scumread because I think there town use common sense it's not a hard thing to fill in the blanks

Actually no, you didn't answer my question (unless there was confusion over what you were answering which seems unlikely, if so feel free to correct.) I asked this: "Why is he wrong, and why are his beliefs scary?" and you answered with "Someone who is doing wrong but believes there in the right is without a doubt one of the most scary things". This doesn't answer why he is wrong about his scumread of Hiraki, but it does kind of answer the latter, but not really, as your fear is over him thinking what you believe to be incorrect things, not over what those thoughts are, which is... confusing.

"Town use common sense" is not an argument. If it was truly self-evident we would be able to see it. Why is Toto wrong on his scumread of Hiraki?

Answer.

You're clearly misunderstanding what I was saying you asked me "Why is he wrong" and "why is it scary" I told you why it is scary and why is he wrong you should be able to use common sense and see I think he's wrong because I had Hiraki as town

[Elena Fisher]

I'm not using it as an argument at all is the thing though lol

[Elena Fisher]

You saying "Why do you think he's wrong" is a stupid question because you should be able to use COMMON SENSE to get that answer yourself

[Elena Fisher]

duh, but why do you townread Hiraki?

You see this is good not the stupid around the bush stuff you did before.
I liked Hiraki's tone and his reactions to toto's push plus his play draws attention to himself where I don't see scum needing to do that

[Elena Fisher]

duh, but why do you townread Hiraki?

You see this is good not the stupid around the bush stuff you did before.
I liked Hiraki's tone and his reactions to toto's push plus his play draws attention to himself where I don't see scum needing to do that

"his tone" is a fairly empty statement you can apply to just about anyone. Not *clap* a *clap* argument *clap*. (mods plz add clap smilie). And if you like his tone, what do you like about his tone?

As for his reactions to toto's push, what about it?

And for drawing attention to himself... well, while it is good scum play not to draw attention to yourself, him playing bad scum isn't impossible here. I believe I saw Hawk using a similar argument earlier that I didn't address. Could've been someone else.

You asked for an answer and I gave you one just because you don't like the answer doesn't mean it's not an argument

[Elena Fisher]

You really need a bit of help when it comes to the logic department

[Elena Fisher]

duh, but why do you townread Hiraki?

You see this is good not the stupid around the bush stuff you did before.
I liked Hiraki's tone and his reactions to toto's push plus his play draws attention to himself where I don't see scum needing to do that

"his tone" is a fairly empty statement you can apply to just about anyone. Not *clap* a *clap* argument *clap*. (mods plz add clap smilie). And if you like his tone, what do you like about his tone?

As for his reactions to toto's push, what about it?

And for drawing attention to himself... well, while it is good scum play not to draw attention to yourself, him playing bad scum isn't impossible here. I believe I saw Hawk using a similar argument earlier that I didn't address. Could've been someone else.

You asked for an answer and I gave you one just because you don't like the answer doesn't mean it's not an argument

When I said it wasn't an argument, I meant it in the way that you'd say a rusty, barely-running jalopy isn't a car, or how incoherent scribblings aren't art. It is an argument, but it isn't a very good one. You really need a bit of help when it comes to the logic department. There's also 2 other questions you didn't answer.

You see the way you word it makes it sound otherwise so please do not try and back peddle out of what you just said just because you don't find something good doesn't mean it's invalid and no I answered the questions.

[Elena Fisher]

hey Sesq what do you think happens when you ask stupid questions?

[Elena Fisher]

Quite franky if I wanted to dodge your questions I would just ignore you.

[Elena Fisher]

I will not elaborate on the reasons at this moment ask me another day.

[Elena Fisher]

hmmm....

How do you know I'm wrong?

VOTE: elena

Because your scumread is wrong simple.

How is it wrong? All you said so far is that you think it is wrong.

Because he's town for what I already saidl.

[Elena Fisher]

You truly are infuriating

[Elena Fisher]

Someone who is doing wrong but believes there in the right is without a doubt one of the most scary things

[Elena Fisher]

If I wanted to go into more detail I clearly would've by now so why do you keep asking?

[Elena Fisher]

I did just because you don't like it doesn't mean it still isn't evidence you just want me to go into more detail and quite franky I am slightly annoyed so I do not feel like going into detail at this moment.

Does that clear it up for you

[Elena Fisher]

Making up a read is quite easy wouldn't you agree if I was scum I would at least make sure to back up a claim I made. Scum think before they act Town act before they think

[Elena Fisher]

Someone who is doing wrong but believes there in the right is without a doubt one of the most scary things

But how do you know you are right and not doing the wrong thing?

That's the beauty of it isn't it

[Elena Fisher]

Hiraki I understand it can be a bit...difficult too talk to some people so talk to me why do you townread the people you do

[Elena Fisher]

Ok. Let me try again. It was not a philosophical question. What makes you so confident you are right? Explain it to me slowly.

I think I can understand his anger so I'm going to dig deeper to try and understand him better I like his tone and the reaction to your push It's not a mega super lock tr but a tr none the less. We have days to figure this out so no need to rush care to quote or explain again what makes him summy to you?

[Elena Fisher]

So you're saying some things may look scummy but aren't as scummy as they seem am I getting that right?

[Elena Fisher]

I will admit I've looked at a few things that rubbed me the wrong way with manga (town blocs lol) but the issue I have with scumreading manga is EVERYONE seems to be scum reading manga
Pedit: Fair what type of questions do you mean as in
"What do you like about this post"
"Is there tone towny is there posting"
Those? Quite franky I'm just trying to understand both view points because we have one saying "Hiraki isn't explaining anything!" So now I'm hearing yours.

[Elena Fisher]

People want to know what you find "great" about it. It's details details details just saying "great" doesn't really generate talk and it doesn't make you as transparent as you could be. I understand just saying you find a post good and wanting to leave it at that but this is how I see it at least

[Elena Fisher]

Ok. Let me try again. It was not a philosophical question. What makes you so confident you are right? Explain it to me slowly.

I think I can understand his anger so I'm going to dig deeper to try and understand him better I like his tone and the reaction to your push It's not a mega super lock tr but a tr none the less. We have days to figure this out so no need to rush care to quote or explain again what makes him summy to you?

Its just the fact that he doesnt want to interact or answer simple questions. Im sorry but saying nyd is town because of post Y and not explaining the thought process further because it should be obvious is the most ridiculous thing I have heard in this game and entirely the opposite of what is good for town. It gives the entire scum team here an excuse to not have to respond difficult questions. And like I said before Hikari seems like a good player, like you said, so responding like this seems out of what I expect of his character.

His attitude is anti town at best and we can not let that continue or of anyone else in this game.

Yes but the issue I have with this is I find it highly unlikely Hiraki looks at half of the post's he's making as scum and says "this is okay" *post* clearly if this was his plan as scum he'd know the risks of it

[Elena Fisher]

Don't you think that's overthinking it a bit? Is the way he's acting the main base of your scumread or are there other things you dislike

[Elena Fisher]

I think you and sesq rub him the wrong way a little (and I can understand as sesq rubs me the wrong way aswell) so that could be part of it the 2nd part of your question is good though.
Pedit: Does the way I was treating you and sesq dif from the way he was?

[Elena Fisher]

Okay so I just read what you were talking about and...It felt strange I got a "talking to a toddler/someone not as smart as me" vibe from him
and to answer your question that's hard to answer since everyone has dif playstyles and would answer dif but talking to someone like that...just strange

[Elena Fisher]

It could've been a curious "do you know what ___ means to help my point" but I didn't really get that

[Elena Fisher]

Also you are not scum reading us, he is.

Does having a scumread vs a townread make a big difference?

[Elena Fisher]

I would like to think I would've reacted that way regardless of my read on someone I don't think everyone would react the same to that it's just how you think he did react is how you should take it.

[Elena Fisher]

I've played quite a bit.

[Elena Fisher]

I don't think it's hard to show emotions as scum you can be really upset over something or angry and use that into the game it's something I've done before

[Elena Fisher]

I understand just saying you find a post good and wanting to leave it at that but this is how I see it at least

OK - let's flip this for a second. Who do you TR and why? Just need one person.

Toto I think he's very obv town I think he believe's he's right it comes across super genuine I never see myself ever lynching him

[Elena Fisher]

Elena 809 : Hiraki's play would be really dumb for scun
Elena 811: Hiraki's play is overthinking it

Thought this was funny. Good convo, though, between you and Toto.

I understand just saying you find a post good and wanting to leave it at that but this is how I see it at least

OK - let's flip this for a second. Who do you TR and why? Just need one person.

furiously ignores conversation

No I said that Toto is overthinking it holy hell can you read right

[Elena Fisher]

Can I change my role pm to lyncher on Riley ty mod

[Elena Fisher]

I honestly think you're wrong but you believe you're right and that's scary. I have a lot more to re read ( I did catch up but a lot of it was me just glazing the thread) so I'll take another look at him but I do think you're wring

Toto I think he's very obv town I think he believe's he's right it comes across super genuine I never see myself ever lynching him

Yeah this transition doesn’t feel natural in the least …

--

I can explain; I don't think votes will be of much help.

Considering Kain's current content and meta, I believe that pressure by votes will always create bad reactions. It won't get him motivated into the game and it won't help anyone except the alignment that he's not part of.

Stating it is a more effective method but I can understand why you would think differently. I would do a quick read on Kain's meta if you aren't familiar with it already.

So your stance is that Kain Tepes is scum but you don’t want to vote him because that will not help anyone but the alignment he is not a part of. Aka Town ....

VOTE: Hiraki

? Just because someone is wrong means I can't townread them?
Interesting. Sounds like bull

[Elena Fisher]

It seems were at a stand still do you think there's more then 1 scum in the top 3 wagons?

[Elena Fisher]

You know one thing on my mind has been "oh magna is scum oh magna is scum" I see it from a lot of people and yet...no wagon why is that

[Elena Fisher]

Get to this another time

[Elena Fisher]

VOTE: Magna
The fact people have said they'd lynch this but haven't voted here is just outright strange so let's see if people put their money where there mouth is

[Elena Fisher]

VOTE: Magna
The fact people have said they'd lynch this but haven't voted here is just outright strange so let's see if people put their money where there mouth is

Who said they would lynch this?

Re read

[Elena Fisher]

You all lynched Lowell? Really....lol

[Elena Fisher]

My attitude towards Riley was a clear joke I thought that was clear.

[Elena Fisher]

Magna BBT are scum who's the 3rd?

[Elena Fisher]

VOTE: Magna
I have more chance of lynching this over BBT

[Elena Fisher]

VOTE: Lowell

Screw it. Flash wagon this scum. BBT I am counting on you to move your vote.

Let's not forget this beautiful gem of coaching

[Elena Fisher]

I had a sr on Neb (still semi do but not to the extent of you/Magna) and also one on you my sr on you was stronger yes but Neb had a much higher chance of getting lynched so I voted Neb.

[Elena Fisher]

I haven't seen so much wall posting (or quote walls) in a thread before it looks like there's a lot but maybe it's just me taking in the info wrong. don't really have any confident scumreads at the moment have a tr on Toto and Hiraki

@ Elena

Few things I need answers for.

1) You seem critical of the Lowell wagon, but did nothing to dissuade it. You were clearly in the thread when the last-minute wagon was going on. That leads me to believe that you just didn't care about Lowell getting lynched. All this pushing on Magna now is nice, but was sorely missing from your play EoD 1.
2) Your Hiraki read. It does not look credible that you can read Hiraki as strongly town as you do given what you posted. Like one of your points is that his defense is "too weak to be mafia", which is not great.
3) Your read progression on BBT is suspect. You basically ignored him after his "soft-claim" all of Day 1.

1) I was not around for the Lowell wagon at all or I would've stopped it. What makes you think I was?
2) I understand what Hiraki's anger is coming from given I experienced the same thing and I understand the logic behind his reads what is this "too weak to be mafia" post I don't remember ever making a post like that.
3) I didn't think I could get him lynched so I went for my other sr's that had much higher chance of getting lynched.

[Elena Fisher]

What can I say Magna given seeing you in other games I like me a challenge.

[Elena Fisher]

Information.

Why are you trying to look busy?

If you look at the context of this question it was mostly just normal talk but then you turned it around into shade throwing when ironically the only one trying to look busy given half your iso is "Why do you tr/sr/think _____"

Soft-claims mean jack-shit.

I'd lynch a soft-claim in a heartbeat.

You say soft claims mean jack shit when you soft claimed yourself so what's the point of soft claiming if it means jack shit

VOTE: Lowell

Lowell is at L-1...someone hammer please.

VOTE: Elena

I have some things I need to read over and will probably have some questions coming soon as well but Elena looks like a fantastic lynch for D2.

^ and opportunistic votes all around

[Elena Fisher]

1)

VOTE: Magna
The fact people have said they'd lynch this but haven't voted here is just outright strange so let's see if people put their money where there mouth is

When you made this post, there were 5-6 votes on Lowell. This means you either weren't reading the thread at all when you plopped your vote down on Magna, or you're lying.

2) Ah sorry, that's my bad. I assumed this post:

Well that's a pretty weak defense if they're scum. I'll do a re read again soon with that in mind

...was taling about Hiraki, not Sesq. Ignore this.

3). I understand not pushing a lynch on him. But to ignore him entirely is suspect. You clearly read him as mafia, but put no effort into convincing other people.

1) I didn't see him having votes at all I voted and then went back to work I came back and Lowell was lynched to my shock
3) If you think me ignoring him is suspect then I can't really change your outlook can I? A few times I forgot he was here but most of the time I was busy trying to convince others why some people are town.

[Elena Fisher]

Would looking at a scum game of mine help you hap? I think you'll clearly see the differences.

[Elena Fisher]

1) What's hard to understand. I had a thought I posted it shut off my phone went back to work came back and Lowell was lynched.
2) Okay you have an issue what how I like to play so be it. I thought Magna was scum and so was Neb so I wanted to focus on getting that wagon lynched because it's a huge info boost but then I wanted to test and see just how much people would own up to their sr on Magna clearly not a lot.
Pedit: Well I have 2 completed games on this site showing you the rest would require me to out my alt.

[Elena Fisher]

Focusing on my townread lets me lower my lynch pool and focus on who can be scum makes it quite easier

[Elena Fisher]

If you look at the context of this question it was mostly just normal talk but then you turned it around into shade throwing when ironically the only one trying to look busy given half your iso is "Why do you tr/sr/think _____"

You realise my questioning was towards Nebula, right? The very person you're scum reading now? So, what was I attempting to do if both myself/Nebula are scum?

You say soft claims mean jack shit when you soft claimed yourself so what's the point of soft claiming if it means jack shit

I have not soft claimed once in this game. Secondly, how is that AI?

^ and opportunistic votes all around

How was my Lowell vote opportunistic? How is my Elena vote opportunistic? Don't just throw buzzwords at me - explain them.

1)"But it was towards the person you sr so it's okay right?" What an awful reaction it's clearly distance if would it make me iffy on Neb? Maybe a bit I'd prob lynch Magna first but hey we'd prob have info by then
2) Sure felt like a soft claim to me so your words didn't match up with your actions could just be me though.
3) The answer is common sense you didn't explain them at all someone makes a case on me and you just so happy to be like "Elena is a great day 2 lynch" when you barely if any talked about me before hand at all Lowell was a naked vote along with coaching from Magna

@Mod do scum have daychat?

[Elena Fisher]

Yes it's a hidden alt I thought that was clear

[Elena Fisher]

VOTE: Lowell

Screw it. Flash wagon this scum. BBT I am counting on you to move your vote.

coaching "Hey buddy can you vote Lowell now!" Funny how I don't see a BBT townread anywhere in your iso so that was kinda random on you "counting on bbt to vote Lowell"

[Elena Fisher]

You have an answer for everything don't you.

[Elena Fisher]

I made the coaching accusation because it was the first thing that came to mind reading that. I asked if scum had daychat to see if it was a valid question or not.
Pedit: I could answer your responses but then we'd be going around in circles clogging the thread so why waste my time you clearly have one outlook and I have mine I doubt anything I or you say would change it

[Elena Fisher]

Lil Uzi Vert Null
2. BlueBloodedToffee Scum
3. hapahauli Town
4. MagnaofIllusion Scum
7. Hiraki Towny
8. Riley Cake Townish?
9. Toto Town
10. Sesq Towny
11. nebula Scummy
12. Music Box null
14. Hawk I forgot you were in this game

[Elena Fisher]

no problemo

[Elena Fisher]

I can't force myself to townread people it takes times but I have 2 scumreads a somewhat 3rd one and a decent townpool I think my planning worked quite well

[Elena Fisher]

My attitude towards Riley was a clear joke I thought that was clear.

This is the greatest backpedal of All time.

You have an answer for everything don't you.

I read: "You've reasonably answered all my stuff and I am left with nothing."

Yeah, Elena seems pretty scummy here but my gut kinda pulls the opposing direction, and my gut has so far been right 2/2 times.

Are you kidding me? I've never met Riley I have no reason to be a dick to her it was clearly a joke

[Elena Fisher]

1) I didn't see him having votes at all I voted and then went back to work I came back and Lowell was lynched to my shock

So you dropped a vote close to deadline without even checking the gamestate?

Didn't check the deadline I voted and went back to work yes.

[Elena Fisher]

OK, anyone town reading Elena and scum reading/voting Sesq needs to read over this sequence of posts.

Look at how many times Sesq tries to get an answer/reasoning from Elena and look how she tries to dodge the question on multiple occasions.

Why is he wrong, and why are his beliefs scary?

Someone who is doing wrong but believes there in the right is without a doubt one of the most scary things

A simple question from Sesq; why is Toto wrong on Hiraki. Elena doesn't answer the question, just says 'he is wrong'.

This isn't actually answering the question.

That was answering part of your question just because you don't get an answer you're happy with doesn't mean it's a dodge. I think he's wrong on the scumread because I think there town use common sense it's not a hard thing to fill in the blanks

Sesq correctly points out that Elena did not answer her question. Elena, incorrectly tries to say that she did - I see no reason for why Hiraki is town or why Toto is wrong. 'Toto is wrong because Hiraki is town'. Repeating her answer and still not answering the question.

Why is Toto wrong on his scumread of Hiraki?

Answer.

You're clearly misunderstanding what I was saying you asked me "Why is he wrong" and "why is it scary" I told you why it is scary and why is he wrong you should be able to use common sense and see I think he's wrong because I had Hiraki as town

Sesq states her question as plainly as she possibly can.

Elena still dodges the question - why can't she give a simple answer as to why she town reads Hiraki or even just say why Toto is wrong. The effort Elena is going to to avoid answering Sesq's questions shows she is uncomfortable and doesn't feel like she can justify her read. Elena tries to make it look like Sesq is asking questions that have an obvious answer and that is simply not the case.

but why do you townread Hiraki?

I'm not using it as an argument at all is the thing though lol

Still dodging a very simple question. Ask yourself this; what possible reasons could Elena have for trying to obfuscate here? She again tries to focus on a different part of the post (talking about common sense) instead of addressing the real issue.

You have a townread on Hiraki, why?

duh, but why do you townread Hiraki?

You see this is good not the stupid around the bush stuff you did before.
I liked Hiraki's tone and his reactions to toto's push plus his play draws attention to himself where I don't see scum needing to do that

Finally, Elena answers. Now, there are a couple of things to note here.

Elena acts like Sesq has only just made herself clear; when that is quite simply not the case. Sesq asked in quite blunt terms at least 3 times before this to try and get Elena to explain the read and she refused. My reading of this is that Elena needed time to ISO Hiraki and try to come up with some justification for her town read.

Secondly, the town read is awfully generic. 'Hiraki's tone', his 'reaction to Toto's push' and 'drawing attention to himself.' I realise that Sesq pushes this further (as she should) but I want to chime in here.

Both 'tone' and 'reactions' are not suitable explanations for a town read - if that's what you truly believe you should be able to justify those thoughts by evidencing it through posts - Elena doesn't seem capable (or simply can't) do that and continues to try and avoid the issue hereafter. Also, the 'drawing attention' to himself is flat out wrong - how much attention did Hiraki receive for what he did? A maximum of 2 votes? That point for the town read is moot.

"his tone" is a fairly empty statement you can apply to just about anyone. Not *clap* a *clap* argument *clap*. (mods plz add clap smilie). And if you like his tone, what do you like about his tone?

As for his reactions to toto's push, what about it?

You asked for an answer and I gave you one just because you don't like the answer doesn't mean it's not an argument

Elena gives up.

It should be super easy for Elena to justify her town read of Hiraki but she simply can't do it and that's because her reads are fabricated and are not based on actually trying to figure the game out. She threw random reads out to try and look like she was analyzing the game and when asked to justify her reads simply couldn't do it.

Can we please lynch Elena?

I did answer the question when asked saying why is he wrong is really a simple answer that should be able to get "because I think he's town" of course that's why I think he's wrong so why is that dodging

[Elena Fisher]

Elena, what did you like about Hiraki's tone and what did you like about his reactions to Toto's push?

how tf am I suppose to answer this

[Elena Fisher]

I know I used them you're asking me what I like about his town and reaction to the push...you basically answered it already I liked his tone and reaction hot dam idk what more detailed answer you want

[Elena Fisher]

If I didn't want to answer a question I'd just say I'm not answering it's not dodging lol

[Elena Fisher]

"Why do you think he's wrong" is a stupid question because I think he's town that's why he's wrong you should be able to get that answer yourself

[Elena Fisher]

Wrong.

You'd try to make it look like you were answering whilst not actually answering the question. Which is what you did.

PEdit - You agree that Sesq had valid points? If so, I'm not sure how you can see Elena's dodging as anything other than being scum motivated.

I did answer the question. Stop saying I didn't when I clearly did
Just because it's an answer you don't like or what you're looking for doesn't mean I didn't answer the question

[Elena Fisher]

Just like I'm not answering your question now. You don't care what I answer you're just "trying to look busy" as you call it and it's pissing me off

[Elena Fisher]

It's amazing how I was barely talked about at all day 1 and now I'm the rage
Scum is so far up your asses and driving this town.

[Elena Fisher]

I'm not upset because you're getting lynched right after me.

[Elena Fisher]

Don't lynch:

Toto
hapahauli

Really suggest not:

Hiraki
Lil Uzi Vert
Sesq

Eh:

Riley Cake
Music Box

Can lynch:

Hawk
nebula

Should lynch:

MagnaofIllusion
BlueBloodedToffee

[Elena Fisher]

Explain your cases on Hawk, MoI and BBT. You don't need to convince me about Nebula.

Hawk is just scummier then the other nulls Magna and BBT I already explained

[Elena Fisher]

Shit, you guys are hard to work with.

Is your whole case that they are scumpartners and MoI asked him to switch votes to Lowell or is there anything else you find scummy?

MoI is someone people had a sr on for a lot of day 1 and yet no one did anything seems like scum who's partners didn't act on the sr or was making sure wagons stayed off him it's strange

[Elena Fisher]

Could be yes.

[Elena Fisher]

Of course that bothers me but you shouldn't be leading me on with that question and let me say it myself.

[Elena Fisher]

Okay I just took a shower I'm refreshed from my shitty work day anyone have questions now I'll be happy to answer

[Elena Fisher]

Explain reads. In as much detail as possible. Little details means you get lynched. Bad explanations/reasons means you get lynched.

I'll be honest and say I have mixed feelings about your slot. Your reactions are good but your unprompted actions are not. For example that vote on Magna while Lowel as about to get lynched looks like scum that wants to look busy but doesn't want to be in the last bit of a town wagon, and doesn't want to derail it either.

If you are town you must have had a really good reason to vote Magna and ignore Lowell's wagon completely. So please explain your MoI read.

I'll explain my reads in my next post after my league game but as I said I didn't know the Lowell wagon was a thing or I would've tried to stop it I voted Magna thinking the votes were on neb/sesq and then went back to work. When I came back Lowell was lynched

[Elena Fisher]

I'll explain my reads in my next post after my league game but as I said I didn't know the Lowell wagon was a thing or I would've tried to stop it I voted Magna thinking the votes were on neb/sesq and then went back to work. When I came back Lowell was lynched

Lowell was a leading wagon when you made your vote. Not sure I understand this.

Once again it was a thought in my head and I posted I didn't see the Lowell wagon happen

[Elena Fisher]

I'm gonna voted cause of my work now jeez If I was scum I would've just made up a dif reason

[Elena Fisher]

I'm gonna voted cause of my work now jeez If I was scum I would've just made up a dif reason

I'm not voting you because you didn't see the Lowell wagon.

Why vote MoL and not Nebula yesterday? Why avoid both wagons you thought were there and push one elsewhere?

I wanted to see if people would put their money where there mouth is and vote Magna if you see I was voting Neb for most of the day before that

[Elena Fisher]

dodging for now.

[Elena Fisher]

Every read I've explained ono that list is why. The only ones I didn't are the nulls Luv and Hawk there's a difference between making up bs trying to just push a mislynch and believing what you type I think Hapa believes what he's tying and BBT is just trying to push a mislynch it's a well drawn out case that took time and effort to make I really do think he thinks I'm sucm but BBT is just trying to push a ml. Do you not find it strange magna that a lot of people say they sr you but don't act on it? You seem to be fine with it from what I can tell

[Elena Fisher]

Do you not find it strange magna that a lot of people say they sr you but don't act on it? You seem to be fine with it from what I can tell

Nope. This is a set-up where scum have their hands tied to some degree. They don't have full agency to make any kill they want knowing full well Town has two protective roles working for us. One of the best ways to dissuade protection on a harder to lynch target (which I am) is to express scum reads while not wanting to directly push for my lynch. The fact that you don't even seem to be processing the set-up at all and jumped to "SR on Magna mean he is scum" is suspect as does the fact you aren't even scum-reading those players (aside from Nebula) any of the players who supposedly are my partners floating scum reads.

I did find it strange that's the whole reason I voted you.

[Elena Fisher]

VOTE: Magna
Why do all the good parts happen when I'm away...although I would've hammered him too.

[Elena Fisher]

Hap is my top tr after Toto what makes you sr hap?

[Elena Fisher]

I knew the fact that everyone kept saying "I sr Magna" but never voted him ever was fishy as hell

[Elena Fisher]

I knew the fact that everyone kept saying "I sr Magna" but never voted him ever was fishy as hell

This is a pretty bad point usually, as most people had someone they scumread more.If Magna didn't have the doctor shit I'd most definitely be voting him

It was more empty comments of just placing it there. Without any push as in to just put it for towncred when it flips.
What do you think of BBT given Magna is scum

[Elena Fisher]

VOTE: Music box
Hap/Toto/Hiraki I never see myself lynching and that leaves very few people to choose from and this would be my pick right now

[Elena Fisher]

Hawk is 100% not scum look at how Magna acted around Hawk
I refuse to believe Hawk is scum

[Elena Fisher]

VOTE: Sesq
The hard defend from Magna makes Sesq look like scum

The scum team is in sesq/music/riley for me

[Elena Fisher]

Looks like I was right on BBT softing pr but he was town that's really not the smartest thing to do

[Elena Fisher]

UNVOTE:

What you wanna chat on buddy?

[Elena Fisher]

Don't have one.
Riley seems less likely to kill LUV
Hawk is town given interactions
So that lleaves Sesq and MB

[Elena Fisher]

I didn't read Magna's iso before voting Sesq.
Then I did

[Elena Fisher]

K, Riley would be great if you could get in here and explain your reads.

Where did Elena go?

Hey.

[Elena Fisher]

I still need to read Magna's iso (again) to try and see if I add hawk to my lynch pool because I thought Magna's attacks on him were gen but bussing has always been my weak point
I 100% think there's 2 scum in Riley/Hawk/MB/Sesq though unless someone has something they wanna share

[Elena Fisher]

VOTE: Sesq
Could've swore I re voted here
L-1

[Elena Fisher]

Sounds fine to me.

[Elena Fisher]

Unless there partners?

[Elena Fisher]

VOTE: Riley
Sure

[Elena Fisher]

Riley is most likely scum with 1 of Sesq and MB as a partner and rn I'm leaning on the latter the anger seems genuine

[Elena Fisher]

It also makes a ton of sense on why Riley would call sesq town and vote Hawk instead of music.

[Elena Fisher]

Elena do you think lynching Riley is best today?

100%

[Elena Fisher]

Hiraki has been acting strange but I just think he's wrong not scum

[Elena Fisher]

Eh would pref Riley but then again I was prob lynching Sesq the next day regardless of Riley's flip so this is cool

[Elena Fisher]

I'm most likely still lynching Riley tomorrow given the last pages made any doubts I had on hira go away

[Elena Fisher]

Thanks Hapa you were the only scum to outsmart me you made a case that looked like one of the best I've seen props to you
Congrats to the scum on a well deserved win