Open 675: Pick Your Power X/Y (Game Over!)

[alban]

Giga seems town (page1-2)

[alban]

Prince looks suspicious (page1-2)
Keep transcend in the game. No PL. He is useful in later rounds.

[alban]

Giga seems town (page1-2)

Well, well. Look who's here.

[alban]

giga always feels like town

noted

[alban]

VOTE: bangthemafia

i got a false positive on him reading open 657 but this feels different

How? I have played many games with him, and one thing I have found is I can never read him. I think every statement of Bang's can come from a scum or a town team.
Spade, you agree with Schadd on Bang?

[alban]

Man 96 was scummy as fuck, if I were another player I'd lynch the shit out of me lol

how easy to read is transcend?

Posts frequently but bare minimum to go by. I think I have played 2-3 games with him and every time he was about to be PL'd but the players couldn't get majority against him, thinking 'what if..' and 'PL is lame'.

[alban]

Hey Schadd, if you are not mafia, then there is a good chance for you to be the target of the night kill tonight. Just putting it out there.

I agree, but it's obvious.

[alban]

You have the ability to pick any role you want. Given the opportunity ppl normally pick top power roles. Mafia obviously knows that.
Am just letting ppl who are knew to the game know that in case they didn't realise such an obvious thing.

He could be mafia too.

[alban]

Prince looks suspicious (page1-2)
Keep transcend in the game. No PL. He is useful in later rounds.

Don't like this at all for some reason.

You don't like my read of Prince or what I said about Transcend? Why?

[alban]

There's no solid reason for me to tr/sr people in these early pages. That's why words like 'seems' and 'looks'. Giga's posts seemed natural, Prince's came across as a bit ott.
I noticed Dunn's post coz it's relevant to my read of Giga.

[alban]

mod, vc plz

[alban]

VOTE: Alban

Reads seem forced. I don't understand how they came to a scumread on me?

Omgus vote.

[alban]

Neither tr not sr. Null right now.
Usually players get frustrated with transcend and a wagon starts building, especially on day 1 when there's no clear suspect.
Also, I think he treats day 1 casually, and becomes more invested as the game progresses. I have played a few games with him and that's my assessment of him.

[alban]

VOTE: bangthemafia

i got a false positive on him reading open 657 but this feels different

How? I have played many games with him, and one thing I have found is I can never read him. I think every statement of Bang's can come from a scum or a town team.
Spade, you agree with Schadd on Bang?

Town!bang is always courteous and friendly. Scum!Bang becomes slightly aggressive and starts swearing a little more.

Disagree.

[alban]

671 being the proof. He was aggressive and town.
But anyone can fake these things. I don't think there will be such clear tells when it comes to experienced players.

[alban]

Vaguely speaking - coz i don't clearly remember what made him appear suspicious, which is one reason why I keep posting as i read - I found his posts a lil ott and i also thought that he backtracked his opinion and vote on you when questioned.

[alban]

Also alban what do you think about analysing the draft numbers and possible roles. Do you think it is pointless?

Yes, coz the motivation behind the draft and acquiring a role is individual-based and not faction-based.

[alban]

Mod, V/LA till 23rd.

Noted.--mod

[alban]

Giga, why do you think i am scum?

[alban]

Lyon, why do you think i am scum?

[alban]

Lyon, I never actually said you are scummy. I said your posts were over the top and suspicious. They don't mean the same thing.

Giga, if you are talking about 181, I did not imply A. B, yes. It is totally an omgus vote. But that doesn't necessarily have to come from a scum.

I think both of you are trying hard to read and see what's not there. Also there's some kind of imitation going on, though i am not sure who is following whom. Your reasons for scumreading me are the exact same.

Pedit: will get back

[alban]

I have said in175, and I maintain that there's no strong tr or sr for me till now. That includes the two of you too.

[alban]

Sorry for the disappearance. I am travelling. Sketchy connectivity. Will post in detail in a few days.

[alban]

VOTE: Titus

not really liking the refusal to explain why alban's town when your answers haven't been clear

spade vote also seals my tr of that slot

^that's L-2 if my count is correct

According to you, i am scum. Why? Coz I posted very suspicious content. How long was the content? All of 3 lines. Have you posted scummy posts yourself? Check. Have others done that this game? Check.

Who else is scummy? Titus and their slot must be scum. Why? Coz they think i am town.

Point no. 3. Spade must be town. Why? Coz Titus thinks Spade is scummy. Titus, who is scummy because they dont think i am scum, finds spade scummy, hence spade must be town.

As if the scums can't fake any of these things just for your convenience.

You are one of the most confidently naive players i have seen in my 1 year on the site.

Either that, or all this bad play style us a facade.

[alban]

Is*

[alban]

If i have misrepresented you, explain how and clear it up. Coz i objectively think although I am frustrated with your behaviour with me, there's no deliberate exaggeration in that post.

About finding you scummy, I didn't initially, but now i do. I will wait for your explanation.

[alban]

According to you, i am scum. Why? Coz I posted very suspicious content. How long was the content? All of 3 lines. Have you posted scummy posts yourself? Check. Have others done that this game? Check.

Who else is scummy? Titus and their slot must be scum. Why? Coz they think i am town.

Point no. 3. Spade must be town. Why? Coz Titus thinks Spade is scummy. Titus, who is scummy because they dont think i am scum, finds spade scummy, hence spade must be town.

As if the scums can't fake any of these things just for your convenience.

You are one of the most confidently naive players i have seen in my 1 year on the site.

Either that, or all this bad play style us a facade.

first point, length of content has nothing to do with scumminess? forced reads are forced reads. you could write essays and i could have a nullread on you, you could make 1 post all game and i can have you as my strongest town/scumread. so you completely miss the mark on why i even scumread you but let's keep going

i don't think titus is scummy for thinking you're town. i think titus is scummy for not engaging with me on the specifics behind that read when the reasons they've given can make the read go either way. you could be town and titus scum, your alignment has nothing to do with titus's. yes, i think you're both scummy but it's not associative at all. your logic here seems to suggest it is

spade is town because i didn't like the way titus voted for them. it didn't look like a bus to me. that read is a little associative, but there's nothing naive in thinking that a wagon is on town lynchbait because people are overplaying how scummy he is and a scummier slot is jumping on him.

so i have no idea what you're trying to insinuate here

This seems more like the post hoc analysis rooted in being tunneled. Every single point in your 'essay' points to a presumptuous and naive rhetoric. This is still nai. Maybe a lil bit scummy. Right now i am not sure if you are a tunneled and patronising townie or aggressive scum pushing a less active slot.

[alban]

Someone not engaging with you happens all the time. Maybe they don't like your style or any other reason. For example, I didn't like your and lyon's style so I didn't want to talk. How is a refusal to answer your question scummy?

[alban]

To elaborate a bit more about your and lyon's styles. It came across as if you have made up your mind, and even the first question was to find inconsistencies in my statements. Well guess what? I am inconsistent. Also, I thought that you are bending backwards to misread what i said. I said that i was posting as I was reading, and the posts were meant more for myself than for anyone's benefit. They were impressions. Just as you said to someone you can't explain exactly what was going on in your mind about what you wrote on initial pages, I can't explain why exactly I found your posts fine and lyon's posts suspicious. And yeah, suspicious isn't scummy and it's not semantics. A townie can very well appear suspicious, but not scummy.

[alban]

If you're going to refuse to engage with us and cite disliking our style then we will just lynch you.

Well, that may very well be so, but PL of any sort is anti town. I am assuming that was a joke.

[alban]

If you're going to refuse to engage with us and cite disliking our style then we will just lynch you.

Well, that may very well be so, but PL of any sort is anti town. I am assuming that was a joke.

It was not at all a joke? You are refusing to engage with us and refusing to give a reason besides that you dislike my play. That's insanely anti-town and if you continue being anti-town to make it harder for us to read you then yes I will policy lynch you regardless of my read on you; which already happens to be scum.

You started to tunnel, so I ignored. Stop spinning it around and making it my fault. Just as you get frustrated with wagons, i get annoyed with threats.

Giga, i will get back to your question later in the day. Abt language, english isn't my first language officially given the country i reside in, but for all practical purposes, i have no problem in communicating in English.

[alban]

Could mean they chose a role which was already taken, and ended up being vt or mg. Must be damn frustrating to be third and yet get nothing. But looking at their posts, it seems more likely that they were frustrated with the players rather than with their role.

[alban]

Okay, fair enough.
Titus vanishing for 48H and Alban not talking to me is really dumb and I feel like it was a strategic move to lurk out the game.

I think we mostly agree reads wise except that I'd put KTS/BTM lower and Dunn/Davesaz higher.

Can you go more into detail on BTM?

Lyon, I can't get clearer than this: I am telling you point blank that I am ignoring you due to your and Giga's combative posts. Giga dialled it down. If you want to have a meaningful dialogue, I suggest you do the same. Calling it dumb is fine; that's your opinion, but don't create a conjecture about the lurking part. Spade floated that idea earlier too, and it's not factual.

Giga, unfortunately I didn't have time yesterday to respond to you. Today, I have a talk. I will get back to the game after that.

Though I don't agree with parts of Bang's assessment of my playing style (that I get frustrated easily), he can confirm about my busy schedule. And I am still posting more in my VLA and trying to stay active than many others who aren't in VLA. So this has nothing to do with lurking.

[alban]

Giga, I am not very free. So lemme reply to you in short. Me finding people suspicious happens when they are really scummy, but also when they are deliberately cryptic or want to hide something. It can happen towards a mafia, but also towards PRs, inactive slots and people who write cryptic one-worders or one-liners. To give an example, I always find Transcend suspicious. So I have to suppress that urge (this is why that comment about not lynching Transcend in D1). Regarding Lyon's specific case, I don't remember why he was suspicious and not scummy. There must have been something that struck me, but I have forgotten it. Overall, I have been reading, but haven't analysed the game properly. I need to assimilate it properly. This is my first week on a new job. I am sorry, but for now this will have to do. Things will change during the weekend I hope.

Spade, don't pose conjectures about what I think of you. You just need to ask me.
I will always find you scummy. This game is no different. The only problem I have right now is that I am unable to make distinction between a possible town!Spade who is unable to shirk their scummy playstyle and a possible scum!Spade who is deliberately copying his own style as a wifom. As I said, I do not have time right now, but if it came to that, I will definitely vote for you. I am ready to go with the majority in order to lynch you. I will not repent much if it happens to be a mislynch too.

- You are a bloody opportunist. Wherever the majority goes, you will move there. You are extremely fluid and dynamic with your moves and opinions.
- You have a tendency to cover the whole universe as a possibility in your posts. It's either this or that or everything else. This gives you a leeway to be fluid.
- You start something, then you move onto something else, and in a few pages, you will find something else. If you find something scummy, you should stick to it.
- You have been throwing shade on me. But the way you do it is different from how Lyon or Giga do it. They question me, pressurise me, threaten me, vote for me. They engage in a duel. However lopsided it is, they don't seem to care. They want results. Your comments otoh, are all peripheral. You will comment on my posts, you will discuss me with others, but you aren't saying anything to me directly. So, all in all, I actually find you the scummiest in this game. But I also know you have a scummy game (every single post of yours is problematic and scummy...every single one of them!!), but that's also the reason I think you could be town.

[alban]

This is ridiculous. It's like me asking you to vote for spade. As if that's the only absolution. This patronising attitude is getting on my nerves.

[alban]

If everyone prefers fewer but longer posts, maybe we can make a new rule about maximum number of posts per day? Also, no posting on the go? Sure mobile phones allow to write everything that comes to mind, but maybe everything in our minds is not important to be talked about. I am tired of rummaging through trash in order to search for nuggets of truth and lies. It's just not efficient.

[alban]

UNVOTE: Whemeplay

OK, I'll bite - what's with the unvote?

His prior post to the unvote convinced me.

His post prior to this is 737, where he is quoting all his past posts, without a commentary. I didn't see the point. What was convincing about it?

[alban]

Giga, Lyon, why am I a scum? I don't remember you providing reasons. If you are going to base your suspicion on me for 35 pages, it better be more than 'scummy initial posts'. You are constantly at me, and also asking others to do so. So, do explain. If your reasons are not good enough according to me, I will commit my vote to one of you for sure, depending on who is flimsier.

[alban]

i'm pretty sure i've explained my reasoning beyond scummy initial posts but

i don't really like your push on spade and the way you interact with lyon and me. it reads like scum engagement.

if you need me to bms it can wait though sorry man

who is scum, though?

You have nothing to say for a push you have been pushing for the longest time?
If you have already explained, just quote it for me.
What exactly in my posts reads like a scum engagement? Why are you being vague?
You do not like my push on Spade? Why? Why do you townread him?
Let's hear some specific answers from you.
You too, Lyon.

[alban]

My strongest scumread is Spade right now.
At the tied second position are you and Lyon.

[alban]

But it's also obvious to me that you three can't be a scumteam.

[alban]

One year on the site

[alban]

VOTE: Spade

[alban]

You will comment on my posts, you will discuss me with others, but you aren't saying anything to me directly.

Also alban you said I was being opportunistic b4 can you explain yourself? I had just voted for one person the whole game. Whemeplay. How is that being opportunistic?

What do you think of my claim?

Am saying things to you directly now, yet no response
Hmmmm

I was talking about your play till then. You saying things to me directly now doesn't change the fact that you didn't do it earlier. What you did earlier was instead of engaging one-on-one, you were bonding with Giga and Lyon over me, and also asking random players what they think about me. I am guessing that way even if the wagon were to be built, it would seem not coming from you.

[alban]

I can see where this is headed. On my eventual lynching, those of you who are suspecting me will need to justify and will have a justification ready. You will send another line-up of posts - especially the triumvirate of Lyon-Spade-Giga - implying how I deserved getting lynched for writing a few apparently scummy posts, but never admitting that your heads were buried so deep in your asses that all you could perceive were your own confusions. Good luck with that! I have very limited time, so I am not gonna spend it defending my alignment anymore. I don't care what you think of me. I know who I am. You don't. So, go figure it out. Especially since you are so sure who I am. I rather read the game and have reads ready in case I am still here.

[alban]

Sorry for the absence. Ill. I realise that the deadline is close, so will catch up asap

[alban]

Scum pool
Lyon > Spade > Giga > KTS

[alban]

VOTE: Lyon
I don't know why most of the town is townreading him. He has been even more flighty and opportunistic than Spade.

[alban]

alban you just entered my lynch pool with those reads: I think lyon, spade, and giga are town

We have a tiny overlap on KTS then.
Although I will not queue-jump and go for him.

[alban]

Fuck you all

Mod replace me.

[alban]

Idk like I ended up being abrasive when I didn't want to but that's because this was a really frustrating game. None of us played badly but there was a basically unbreakable Dunn/GBT/Trans townblock and we couldn't actually kill any of them because there were six town PRs. I'm not surprised Alban replaced out.

Making perfect night actions brought the game from 'unwinnable' to 'insanely hard' and that just feels really dumb. From the informed postgame perspective there's still nothing that we could have done better and I was stressed about this game every day.

Wrong. As Spade pointed out, Alban replaced out due to severe RL busy schedule, travel etc.

And he, and partly I too, was pissed off because on day 1, when we just had started the day, you screamed in PT not to FoS yoy in any minor way. And few pages later you blatantly started bussing Alban- not sheeping anyone but literally starting a new wagon. That was dual standards and selfish! He got majorly pissed off because you just assumed that he will submit night kill. But thats not why he replaced out.

You are wrong. Prince is right.

[alban]

Bang is right in what pissed me off. And that's exactly why I left.
Not gonna play with PL ever again. Terrible attitude.