Pedit: I missed you too Aubrey
![Wink ;)](./images/smilies/icon_wink.gif)
In post 80, doomfeathers wrote:VOTE: Creature
It's kind of ironic that I'm telling OOO to vote while forgetting to vote for anyone myself.
In post 159, doomfeathers wrote:You wrote on your wiki that that's a scumtell for you.In post 151, Creature wrote:Sorry, I'm putting less attention into this game rn.
VOTE: Creature
Huh?In post 156, Creature wrote:Oh hi SlySly
In post 177, doomfeathers wrote:You could say that just as easily as scum.In post 161, Creature wrote:https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?ti ... to_Read_Me
Read the last sentence of paragraph 3.
UNVOTE: Creature
VOTE: Frederick
I'm not convinced you're town, and I haven't read Rels yet. I'll help discuss, but I reserve the right to vote whoever I please.In post 168, Creature wrote:outoforder, Rels, doomfeathers.
Let's fuse together to powertown this game.
In post 230, doomfeathers wrote:In post 224, Fredrick E Campbell wrote:I'll consider what you've said.In post 222, Aubrey wrote:I wish you people not voting would vote. I don't care if your the type of person who doesn't like to vote until you feel reaaal good about someone before voting them. Put your vote on the scummiest person so far already.In post 225, Fredrick E Campbell wrote:But honestly, I think Aubrey's 222 seems a little to eager to end this day.
VOTE: AubreyWow.In post 226, Fredrick E Campbell wrote:Do you mean you're scum, and you're trying to work as though you're town?In post 179, Creature wrote:Let's try to work as town anyways.![]()
In this post from a scum thread, Fredrick states that he as scum usually picks someone at random to question. Does this questioning fit that method? Could this be sloppy town, or is it more likely lazy scum?
In post 234, doomfeathers wrote:Yeah, to some extent. This is only Fredrick's fourth game, and he doesn't appear to post much.
In post 310, doomfeathers wrote:Hang on, I think I've got a case.
VOTE: Kop
His posting tone seems bored and rather uncaring, which clashes strongly with his activity and content. I think he's scum trying to look town.
Uggggghhhh so yeah I thought that's what I saw. Doom really pings me because while he's been fairly active and has had good posts here and there a lot of it is pretty easy to fake as scum.
Hey OoO you have a lot of posts that are very long so it's gonna take me some time to disect you but I saw your reads lIst, explain your town reads on doomy, Kop and Kid a bit for me so I can have a better idea where you are now while I review where you were eariler in the day?In post 340, outoforder wrote:I am townreading him because of his posts on MooginSoosy (who i am also suspicious of for reasons i will outline soon). And because of WHY he townreads you, not just because he townreads you -- since i share the opinion of why you are town as i pointed earlier.
Basically - if you go read MooginSoosy's posts, she gave townreads on me, Rels and Creature.
When being prodded about the townreads she retracted from all of them except for the townread on me. I don't understand why he townread Rels and Creature in the first place, since there is no real explanation. Basically the read on Rels she has shouldn't have been a townread in the first place since almost everything Rels has posted is why she retracted from the read... I don't understand the read - or the change of read - on Creature at all. I don't see the thoguht process. I don't understand the read on me either since she literally said she has a townread on me for a post she doesn't know why i even posted that?!?!?!? I mean like, wtf does that even mean or how can she come to a such conclusion. And i certainly don't like her vote on doomfeathers since i heavily disagree with the case.
fitz' big post didn't change anything for me regarding the read on him. Still think he is likely to be mafia.
hapahauli needs to do more shit, right now he doesn't look good (basically playing way below his town!play level imo). While i am not certain he is mafia i was before, i definitely don't have a town read on him.
Fredrick E Campbell gets a scumlean for what i said before. I don't understand how someone can read the thread in that kinda manner. For me it looks like he is just taking some random things at a random time to cprod on them without actually thinking why people even do the stuff they do.
Basically this is where i stand:
town (in no specific order other than Rels):
Aubrey
Kop
KidAmn
doomfeathers
Creature
Rels
Useless / undecided on:
Allomancer*
hapahauli
Current scumreads (the lower - more scummy):
MooginSoosy / Fredrick E Campbell
havingfitz
Doom pinged me because of his sporadic voting and it seemed awkward I'm not denying that those three haven't been scummy I'm just going through ISO'a after skimming the thread. I find that fairly effective for me.In post 351, Creature wrote:Hawk: "Okay, give me a moment because I got some pings that might solve the game"
What you expect:
Hawk: "Moogin, hapahauli and Fredrick are scum because *lots of reasons*, gg no re"
hapahauli: "Oh, but blah blah blah"
Hawk: "Sorry, there's no way any of you are town"
Moogin: "gg, we give up"
What actually is:
Hawk: "doomfeathers is scum because he flips his vote a lot"
It's not that you are nesscarily flipping a lot it's just you don't push out your own reads on why you're voting or at least don't articulate it very much. It just reads to me like scum trying to appear town. Like I see why you went after FEC but why flip to Hapa and Kop and then back to FEC? what does that accomplish? Like your case against FEC is fine I can't tell if he's lazy scum, sloppy town, or just not experienced but you jumping around jumped out to me as more odd than him being wet behind the ears or lazy.In post 350, doomfeathers wrote:Yeah, I post sporadically. I'm not sure how that's scummy, though. It's just how I play games.In post 348, Hawk wrote:Doom flips his vote a lot with little actual say from himself on why or where or how. Particularly I find his vote against FEC just recently bothersome. You vote him for low content then give him benefit of being a newbie and not posting much then vote him again cause he's lazy scum? Naaaah dog lots of other people also fall under the low activity scummy feel than just FEC. Not that you don't point it out just you chose to focus here. Feels like low hanging fruit. He could be scum, but idk. posts are rather sporadic and feel very awkward like his interaction with creature early in the day, his questioning of the unvote just to post hey you said why two posts later so I get where some of the question of FEC comes from but I don't see why Doom votes Hapa for being not town enough, then Kop for case based off tone and activity (both of which are NAI) and back to Fred where you were before because he's lazy (despite you saying before) that he was new and doesn't post much from what you've dug out.
I voted Fredrick based on poor content, not low post rate. Also, "newbie" and "no idea how to play" are different.
Yes, I've been vote-hopping spectacularly. I haven't found any strong evidence of scumminess to vote for. Right now, I think havingfitz and Kop are probably most worthy of attention, but I can't find decent reasons to vote them.
In post 355, doomfeathers wrote:Moogin has not posted much, but her posts have made more sense, as if she's actually paying attention to what's going on.
Now that I think about it, though, if she's paying attention while lurking, that would be something scum might well do. I'll keep that in mind.
Be more concise OoO, but not as concise as Creature cause I can't read that.In post 357, MooginSoosy wrote:The first post I made after coming back was from skimming what had happened, then I went back and changed my mind. I should've read before posting but I didn't, my bad.In post 340, outoforder wrote:
Basically - if you go read MooginSoosy's posts, she gave townreads on me, Rels and Creature.
When being prodded about the townreads she retracted from all of them except for the townread on me. I don't understand why he townread Rels and Creature in the first place, since there is no real explanation. Basically the read on Rels she has shouldn't have been a townread in the first place since almost everything Rels has posted is why she retracted from the read... I don't understand the read - or the change of read - on Creature at all. I don't see the thoguht process. I don't understand the read on me either since she literally said she has a townread on me for a post she doesn't know why i even posted that?!?!?!? I mean like, wtf does that even mean or how can she come to a such conclusion. And i certainly don't like her vote on doomfeathers since i heavily disagree with the case.
I think you're town but I hated that wall post because you just say the same thing in different ways for half of it and it wasn't concise. Also you just seemed like you were making this huge revelation but it wasn't actually that life changing.
Creature is a mystery to me because the posts are so short. I thought he was town before but I think I was swayed by his whole "oh we should form a townblock with us 4 (rels doom OoO creature)"
I think one of the people in that group is scum and right now the only one who I think is definitely town in that is you
So essentially what I just said earlier color me not impressed. Like I agree but at the same time you're just regurgitating something I said before so how much of that opinion was your own I can't tell :/.In post 361, MooginSoosy wrote:Doom is suspicious to me because he jumps from vote to vote and doesn't try to pull any information out of them. He wants other people to see his votes and hopes they'll go after them. He's not hunting the people that he's voting for actively.
I like this thought process but I was thinking Creature was doing more than just playing back and waiting for people to do their dirty work for him.Creature is a bit similar, but I'm seeing that's just his play style. Creature is less of a scum read than doom. Creature just wants everyone to do his work for him, like how he wanted you to find the three people he thinks are scum and go after them.
Who do you think is Latching because I'm getting confused by how you worded that?In post 363, MooginSoosy wrote:I don't like the fact that OoO waited to see rels' reaction. How easy it would be for a scum rels to buddy up with OoO right away just because they know each other from another game. I liked his interaction with creature but I think he backed off too easily. Then to suddenly agree to a townblock with creature, OoO and doom (though he was iffy on doom still). I think one of them is latching onto that group to fly under the radar
What was I not right about?In post 378, outoforder wrote:Well to be fair Hawk is not right on what he says about MooginSoosy's vote on doomfeathers. Still i don't agree with the reasoning.
You mean this? This reads to me as my two problems areIn post 287, MooginSoosy wrote:VOTE: doomefeathers
I don't see their posts being helpful to town in any way. I dont see their votes being helpful in any way. Why bother putting your vote on fitz when they're going to be vla until Tuesday?? I still dislike their post about strategy in the night, it seems like a scum trying to be town and give the town this brilliant solution to the night phases
This when asked about her reads reads as her changing her read and regurgitating my point I just made. But sure I can see what you're getting at let me redact.In post 361, MooginSoosy wrote:Doom is suspicious to me because he jumps from vote to vote and doesn't try to pull any information out of them. He wants other people to see his votes and hopes they'll go after them. He's not hunting the people that he's voting for actively.
All the best man. Hope things get better.
KidDamn are you saying it's a contradiction because he gave case for both scum and town Kop or are you saying it's a contradiction because you think it's hypocritical line of thinking?In post 472, KidAmn wrote:You call Kop your second strongest read and then follow it with a list of reasons he might not be scum, one of which is his posting style with bigass walls of text catchup, while criticising me for having a weak scum-read on Creature but admitting that part of my issue could just be his posting style
Do you not see the contradiction there
Just curious why is doomfeathers consistently on your town list but other people seem to fall off and on again?In post 522, Creature wrote:Yet, again Aubrey + Kop + outoforder + Rels + doomfeathers + me isn't enough to solve the game.
Not my first choice. I like Hapa's case against KidDamn. I don't buy into the meta stuff so I guess right now he's sitting Null/Town.In post 537, Creature wrote:Would you mind if we lynched hapahauli right now?
More meta stuff?? Okay BRB gotta go read another game to get a read on a player this gameIn post 536, Creature wrote:He's Open 658ing.
I assume you're referring to post 347 ? It was a joke about our last game where I said there was only a .5% chance you were scum right before we went into final 3. Thus the smilies afterwords. Especially since you changed your avatar and said you were buddying.In post 554, Aubrey wrote:WAIT A MOMENT, AND SHUT THE FRONT DOOR.In post 535, Hawk wrote: I'm pretty Null on Aubrey but I'm leaning more town than scum.
what happened to that 99.5 percent sure my lovely booty is town good sir?
I DEMAND AN ANSWER.
I DEMAND SATISFACTION.
I DEMAND MORE LOVING THAN WHAT YOU ARE GIVING ME.
Or so lord hep me I'll go bat shit crazy on yo ass.
VOTE: Hawk
Is your only case against Cassielle that she is tunneling? Cause if so that's a pretty weak case, and basically just OMGUS....In post 682, hapahauli wrote:What's more likely here? That I went into this game screaming at my team to bus me? Or that there are quite a few mafia members suspicious of me for super sketchy reasons that don't make sense anymore.
It's very clear that Cassielle is mafia. How she's tunneling me is not confirmation bias. She's suspicious of me because it's the popular thing to do, and never had any interest in figuring out my alignment.
What about off your wagon. Who's scum off your wagon. (besides Kop who is still off all wagons!!)In post 690, hapahauli wrote:Of course all these people can't be mafia. People like Doomfeathers and OoO are probalby town (for reasons I explained before). Creature as well. Fitz seems atleast to be thinking about his read on me, which makes me think I was wrong about him.
ButKidAmnandCassiellestick out as the mafia on my wagon.
Cassielleis not considering new information in the thread. She read the thread once, decided I was mafia, and that was that. She has no interest in talking about her read on me, and every interest in repeatedly calling me mafia (to the point that she's calling Creature's vote on me a bus). This is a very strong sign of mafia - she's pushing an agenda and not an actual read. There's no way it's townie confirmation bias, since there's no evidence she actually read my filter other than some throw-away tone read.
KidAmnis pushing me for reasons that have already been discredited. Again, not considering new information. Pushing an agenda. Etc. Refusal to parse new information goes beyond confirmation bias into a scummy agenda.
Plenty of other people worth debating was who? Fitz and KidDamn? You've given soft townreads to Fitz and Doom now do you're back on KidDamn and FEC's slot which you had said it was a cop out lynch? Cassiele's once through and the scum pick on you is difference enough to push as scum #1?Lynching Frederick would be a huge cop out. He's a coinflip lynch and won't be around to defend himself. There are plenty of other people worth lynching and debating over him right now.
This is not the vote I was expecting Kop... Why Rels??
Aubrey. I haven't even really dug into Aubrey but most of the time when I read Aubrey's posts I just get a feeling that it comes from town. I don't really dig into it super hard and except for earlier when he came in saying I had explaining to do I haven't really given Aubrey very much attention as far as this game goes.In post 779, cassielle wrote:naked votes are never pro-town
theyre usually FROM town (which means scum can use towns poor behavior as a smokescreen there) but theyre bad town play (for that precise reason)
hawk: who is the scum lurking in your townreads?
not about who you distrust but who you cant understand why you trust them ftr
im not asking you to scumread them either, im trying to paint a picture in my head
OMG the amount of times that this response has been the first lynch in games is ridiculous.In post 788, KidAmn wrote:Like I said, I don't really give a damn about this game, it's more about the three amigos having a circlejerk and apparently someone else backing off means I don't get to have a case so fuck it, do whatever.
Huh? I've used this Avatar all game??In post 790, Creature wrote:I wonder if it's his avatar or if Hawk looks more ordinary.
Meta NAI I thought it was scummy then and I think it's scummy now? That's like saying I flipped this coin it landed heads 3 times in a row when I flipped it with my right hand this time when I flip it with my right hand it will land heads. Correlation does not imply causation. Just because he was town before when he played like that doesn't mean he's town now. As similar just because when I read him that way before doesn't mean I'm wrong about it now.In post 821, BlackVoid wrote:Looking through Hawk's games, I noticed that in Open 669, he voted Doom for quickly changing his vote and they were both town there. So, he should know that Doom does this as town and it's at worst null. I don't like that he uses the same reason to vote Doom yet again.
You distinctly left off a grand portion of my sentiments there including that I feel like of the three Hapa looks the worst but is also the one being pressured most and could be BEING SETUP either for a bus or a ML. Look at how OoO and Rels initially pressure and vote Hapa then Rels backs off from one reentering post by Hapa. At first during the day I dismissed almost that entire section of the read to being meta driven TL stuff but now that you pointed out more concisely that I can see a case for Hapa that isn't meta driven I'm worried that the Meta read from Rels and subsequent back off is either setting up Hapa as a Bus or as a ML.In post 907, BlackVoid wrote:@Hawk - how did you go from "Hap looks the worst of the three TL players and Rels is my backup," and saying that you are "okay with a Hap lynch, look at Rels if he's scum" to voting Rels? Then you say you are concerned that Kop is pushing Rels and that you could see Hap/Kop or Hap/Rels. Based on all of this, you should be voting Hap so I have no idea how you winded up with a Rels vote.
In post 945, Aubrey wrote:@Hawk: as in the both of them being scum? I've addressed this already, why wouldn't he just push his scum buddy for the distance? Or just not say anything at all, and push elsewhere? Why outwardly defend his scum buddies slot? There is the option of them gambeling on people having the doubts I'm having, but I find that overthought and less likely. I see it as tvt or tvs. Less likely of SvS.
Okay so are you scumreading Cass for that? Weigh in on Hapa for me? Do you think he's town?In post 962, outoforder wrote:There is nothing in her filter between those posts. There is no "oh i changed my mind, i think this is the truth instead". Just a scumread on hapa + creature and then a vote on kidam while no reasoning why the read on the earlier two has changed.In post 875, doomfeathers wrote:Your information must be pretty old. Cassielle hasn't been scumreading Creature for a while.In post 868, outoforder wrote:You scumread Creature and you are scumreading hapa.
Havingfitz is scum though. Deflecting a case on him based on nothing that was on the case != "here is why you are wrong". It is "i am discrediting you gor other atuff because i cant prove you are wrong".
Go read his wot and then compare it with what i said. Please.
....In post 786, Hawk wrote:In post 779, cassielle wrote:naked votes are never pro-town
theyre usually FROM town (which means scum can use towns poor behavior as a smokescreen there) but theyre bad town play (for that precise reason)
hawk: who is the scum lurking in your townreads?
not about who you distrust but who you cant understand why you trust them ftr
im not asking you to scumread them either, im trying to paint a picture in my headAubrey. I haven't even really dug into Aubrey but most of the time when I read Aubrey's posts I just get a feeling that it comes from town.I don't really dig into it super hard and except for earlier when he came in saying I had explaining to do I haven't really given Aubrey very much attention as far as this game.
It's Hapa or Aubrey. BV makes a compelling case against Aubrey. Read there.In post 1231, Kop wrote:I've had 2 long shifts at work and I'm totally goosed. I don't think I have the energy to go through all the pages that I've missed because body is crying for sleep.
Because we don't have fucking time for this shit! we are fucking 8 hours away from deadline. You're pushing Aubrey I was leaning Hapa still. Every single fucking second we waste throwing more conjecture around about players is time wasted. Did I think Creature's willingness to vote whatever wagon was scummy hell yes, do we have time to pursue a Creature wagon? I don't know, sometimes this thread explodes with people posting back and forth 10 billion posts with people other times it seems like half the cast is VLA. I'm not about to pursue Creature when we need to decide a lynch today.In post 1243, BlackVoid wrote:But you voted after Creature. Why didn't you call him out then?In post 1241, Hawk wrote:No what's oppurtunistic is someone like Creature saying he's willing to sheep any wagon he sees as fucking gaining traction.
OMG town tunnel comf!bias everybody.In post 1246, BlackVoid wrote:I was confident before because all of Aubrey's reactions to me hadn't sunk in at that point.
I didn't say anything about your reservations about an Aubrey lynch. I'm saying the reasoning you used "I can't see Aubrey get frustrated like this as town" is made-up reasoning. If anything town are more likely than scum to be frustrated. It looked like you cobbled together whatever you could at that moment to hop onto a lynch wagon.
I'm talking about Aubrey not me there.In post 1250, Rels wrote:There is literally 1 person and 1 vote on you. That is way over reactedIn post 1247, Hawk wrote:OMG town tunnel comf!bias everybody.In post 1246, BlackVoid wrote:I was confident before because all of Aubrey's reactions to me hadn't sunk in at that point.
I didn't say anything about your reservations about an Aubrey lynch. I'm saying the reasoning you used "I can't see Aubrey get frustrated like this as town" is made-up reasoning. If anything town are more likely than scum to be frustrated. It looked like you cobbled together whatever you could at that moment to hop onto a lynch wagon.
I say I don't see Aubrey getting frustrated "like this" as town! Aubrey was frustrated by the gamestate and everyone waffling about. I'm referring to this post 1175 . This is not town this is scum.
He's all woe is me I'm getting lynched cause people are fuckwads.
You're fucking head up your ass town just like Aubrey said. You decide to waffle on Hapa and try so hard to find a lynch off wagon. Reserved that Hapa lynch isn't happening you're pressuring Aubrey to the point of insanity and then when his lynch hits L-2 and no one else is voting (specifically OoO isn't wowed by it) You go. no wait! What about Hawk. Hawk is sus because he is saying the same thing I've been fucking saying just from his PoV.
*sigh* Give me like 30 minutes to an hour I'm still at work and posting mobile. Im sorry if you're inferring incorrectly about my post. I'm probably not making sense because I'm angry that people kept saying don't end the day a fucking day ago when everyone was kinda decided that Hapa would be the most informational lynch and now we are less than 8 hours away with no decided lynch.In post 1248, BlackVoid wrote:None of what you just said makes any logical sense. You call me head up my ass town but the behaviors you describe seem to be you trying to paint me as scum. On the one hand, you call Aubrey scum, then on the other you say I'm town just like Aubrey said.
Also, trying to paint it like "no one else is voting Aubrey" is wrong. If I hadn't unvoted, I'm pretty sure someone would have compromised onto him as a lynch. There weren't any other viable options.
You are simultaneously complaining that I pressured Aubrey "to the point of insanity" while also calling him scum. Literally nothing in that post is consistent.
Forgive me if I got defensive and lashed out if near the end of the damn day literally 10 hours before the deadline when I'm already slightly uncertain who to lynch or whether they're even scum I flip my lid at the person calling me oppurtunistic.In post 1281, BlackVoid wrote:You didn't have this response when I initially accused you though. Your reaction was basically wait, what? Creature and others jumped on more opportunistically than me! If you sincerely believed that Aubrey was scum, I'd expect your reaction would be more along the lines of "don't be dumb and hop off a scum wagon because you're paranoid" of something of that sort. You just assumed that Aubrey was town and there would be opportunistic votes on his wagon.