Open 679: Jungle Oligarchy (Game OVER)

[Superhans]

Hiya

[Superhans]

And Lucca

[Superhans]

Hi all,

I'm claiming Masons with Riley Cake.

Also, I'd like to thank the hydra that made room for me to join by lynching them until they die a dead death.

VOTE: Quick Transcendence

Is this real?

Or is this some VT / scum jking?
B real with me Grey.

[Superhans]

Lil Uzi Very is a trash rapper and his music videos make me cringe so hard I want to die.

[Superhans]

VOTE: SUPERHANS

THAT WAS A REALLY BAD ENTRANCE!!!!!!!!

Why?

[Superhans]

Town leaning grey (Pg 2 tho so almost certainly wrong).
Claim mason instantly comes from VT to kick off discuss. Too risky for a scum player.

Right Grey? Or not?

[Superhans]

HI UZI POOZI!!!!

NOTHING'S WRONG WITH HAN'S ENTRANCE!!!! I was just being a tease

Hmm I don't think you're keeping it real.

VOTE: Cake

How about this:
You thought my entrance was terrible, you call me out for it, but then get scared when an alpha player like Lil Uzi disagrees.

If this is the case please be real with me. I don't mind, it's not particularly AI, more personality indicative.

[Superhans]

Town leaning grey (Pg 2 tho so almost certainly wrong).
Claim mason instantly comes from VT to kick off discuss. Too risky for a scum player.

Right Grey? Or not?

Nah, I'd totally do it as scum.

Would you really trust me if I confirmed your assumption?

Yup for sure that's y I asked you.

[Superhans]

HI UZI POOZI!!!!

NOTHING'S WRONG WITH HAN'S ENTRANCE!!!! I was just being a tease

Hmm I don't think you're keeping it real.

VOTE: Cake

How about this:
You thought my entrance was terrible, you call me out for it, but then get scared when an alpha player like Lil Uzi disagrees.

If this is the case please be real with me. I don't mind, it's not particularly AI, more personality indicative.

UZI CAN BE MY ALPHA ANY DAY!!!!!

But no!!!! *pokes* I was just teasing!!! besides!!!! even if I was scared, I'd be scared as town too, rightsies? so what made ya think it was alignment indicativesies?

Did I say it was AI?

[Superhans]

Oh fair enough... My vote on you was just OMGUS and for you to realise im not teasing...

UNVOTE:

[Superhans]

Zat you, LQ?

Yup.

Thoughts?

I'm down if you want to go all "enemy of my enemy" on Hans.

Can't agree to that seeing as I'm Town this game.

Well if I'm mafia, he's a werewolf and you still want him dead, so...

Reading YOU is a priority for me at this juncture. I feel OK about reading Superhans as the game progresses. You I want to sort out sooner rather that later.

Reading me is simple as hell for anyone with the slightest bit of common sense.

My town and scum games are NOTHING alike.

Describe your scum play in a few sentences.
Describe your town play in a few sentences.

I'll give you mine if you ask.

[Superhans]

Unvoted cos I felt I'd been too aggressive for such a small reason.

[Superhans]

Thanks!

I'm not going to dig about your meta. Nobodies got time for that. I will trust your analysis of meta thank you very much.

[Superhans]

Can you tell me how your GAMRPLAY is different?

[Superhans]

Zat you, LQ?

Yup.

Thoughts?

I'm down if you want to go all "enemy of my enemy" on Hans.

Can't agree to that seeing as I'm Town this game.

Well if I'm mafia, he's a werewolf and you still want him dead, so...

Reading YOU is a priority for me at this juncture. I feel OK about reading Superhans as the game progresses. You I want to sort out sooner rather that later.

Reading me is simple as hell for anyone with the slightest bit of common sense.

My town and scum games are NOTHING alike.

How are they nothing alike?

[Superhans]

Also I'm not begging to get lynched, you are just interpreting my posts that way.

Pedit: HOOOoooOOOW

[Superhans]

?

Y did you write that they are nothing alike. Give me features.

[Superhans]

Dude wtf?

It takes like 1 minute:
My town play is super natural, I usually get town read incredibly quickly. Played VT thrice, killed D1 by scum in two of them. I like to think of my town play as being abrasive but natural.

My scum play is usually bait and I get identified very quickly. I ask lots of questions as town and scum, but as scum I lack conviction. Generally I try to emulate my VT me as scum.

Pedit
Y are you doing this grey?

[Superhans]

Unvoted cos I felt I'd been too aggressive for such a small reason.

This reads a bit too cautious for my liking. What's wrong with being aggressive this early?

I got scared.

[Superhans]

I should have kept being aggressive, that's how I like to play.

Pedit.
@Grey if you were never willing to give me meta, why faff about so much? You could have told me to do my own homework straight away but instead you post memes? Not town reading you no more.

[Superhans]

I was scared of you actually grey. You were demanding LQ gang up on me. I got freaked out and thought maybe it was because of how I was playing

This is really silly I know. I shouldn't have been a scaredycat

[Superhans]

Zat you, LQ?

Yup.

Thoughts?

I'm down if you want to go all "enemy of my enemy" on Hans.

Can't agree to that seeing as I'm Town this game.

Well if I'm mafia, he's a werewolf and you still want him dead, so...

Reading YOU is a priority for me at this juncture. I feel OK about reading Superhans as the game progresses. You I want to sort out sooner rather that later.

Reading me is simple as hell for anyone with the slightest bit of common sense.

My town and scum games are NOTHING alike.

Describe your scum play in a few sentences.
Describe your town play in a few sentences.

I'll give you mine if you ask.

Scum game

:
I intentionally mislynch town.
I kill threats at night.
I may or may not avoid being lynched.

Town game

:
I unintentionally mislynch town.
I lynch scum occasionally.
I may or may not avoid being mislynched.

Never trust self-meta. Don't be lazy, do your own homework.

Yet he also gives me his own interpretation. I ask for more details, which he could have just told me he's not going to give to me.

[Superhans]

Hans, you are right to be scared of me.

When I decide I want somebody dead, I can drive the shit out of a wagon.

You just haven't gotten me there. Yet.

Oh piss off m8. Stop trying to big yourself up. I admitted you scared me, but I regret it because I didn't know you were going to be a prick about it.

[Superhans]

I was scared of you actually grey. You were demanding LQ gang up on me. I got freaked out and thought maybe it was because of how I was playing

This is really silly I know. I shouldn't have been a scaredycat

So Grey reaching out to LQ is what made you want Grey to self meta?

No?
It made me invite Cake.

[Superhans]

Unvote.

[Superhans]

HAS ANYONE EVER TRIPPED ON NUTMEGS?

FINDING OUT NOW SO ILL BE OUT OF THIS GAMR FOR YHR NEXT 8 HPURS OR FOREVER WELL SEE.

[Superhans]

For all my fellow degenerates

[Superhans]

Hello Lucca.

@QuickTranscendence We played together as scum in 669. He probably has a good understanding of my scum meta as we used day chat and he helped me throughout the game. I learnt a lot about being a good scum during that game from him and from HavingFitz.

[Superhans]

@Lucca

Obviously im happy to talk to you. Thats why i added my "and Lucca " to my introduction.

However would prefer it if you kicked things off by expanding upon your points. i get that you need to wait until you're on a computer.

[Superhans]

@Lucca

not thinking that much at all about your entrance.
I want explanations for all ur reads.

i mean i agree with 2/3 of them, but i want to know why.

[Superhans]

I liked Grey exchange with you, and also his vote on Space/Spade/whatevs Ace. His egotrip is probably town. He is putting a target on himself.

The null read is a null read.

I want to talk to you more before stating my reasons for scumreading you.

who is this for?

Me right?

[Superhans]

VOTE: Momo

[Superhans]

5 to lynch.

Space Ace is at L1

@DAVE
would be nice to include how many is needed to lynch in the VC.

[Superhans]

so it is, sorry

[Superhans]

Mono lock scum... Agree with Grey on that at least.

Scum struggle scum hunting so are forced to produce garbage reads, like voting for Riley because of her flavour.

Pg 6 and that's ALL you got?

Want Mono lynched today.

[Superhans]

I'm not town reading Cakez ftr.

However, the reasoning in voting for her was pathetic and if it came from town I would think very dimly of the players town game.

[Superhans]

Okay so after reading only 6 pages the only thing I can honestly say is that Riley is annoying. Feel like she is trying to draw attention to herself and acting this strange, people will think that she is too confident for scum. Hiding in plain sight so to speak.

My vote will most definitely at some point since it is page 6 but still feeling somewhat confident with what I have now. Also, how isn't Veebs banned. He is a troll who types in random game thread.

Anyway:

VOTE: Riley Cakes

I don't see Riley as annoying. Riley does have an unconventional posting style, but provides useful content. (Essentially like KainTepes). However, Riley's posting style may be breaking Rule 14 so I would recommend that Riley tries to post without caps lock.

Slighrly IIoA

[Superhans]

okay riley I will get of you for now, but I am pretty sure posting in all caps might be a rule violation so please don't'

UNVOTE:

So if it isn't AI, who is scum? All your posts have been about technical violations, not actually anything useful. Do you

have

any scum reads?

If not, do you have any town reads?

[Superhans]

Ok Riley. If you are young then GTFO out of this game. Not to be mean but this is pretty much what the game is about.

swearing?? No way!!! That's crass!!! This game is about making friends and snuggling with them until you find mafia!!!!

Please cut out posts like this if they are only going to annoy other players.

[Superhans]

I just like rubbing it in your face.

Town snark.

How did you conclude that?

+1 this... Wasn't Quick Transcendence sure Grey was scum?

[Superhans]

Hey guys

What's shaking?

Vote grey, be a hero.

Town leaning grey (Pg 2 tho so almost certainly wrong).
Claim mason instantly comes from VT to kick off discuss. Too risky for a scum player.

Right Grey? Or not?

There is literally no reason to Town read grey for claiming mason. Its NAI for grey I would wager.

HI UZI POOZI!!!!

NOTHING'S WRONG WITH HAN'S ENTRANCE!!!! I was just being a tease

Hmm I don't think you're keeping it real.

VOTE: Cake

How about this:
You thought my entrance was terrible, you call me out for it, but then get scared when an alpha player like Lil Uzi disagrees.

If this is the case please be real with me. I don't mind, it's not particularly AI, more personality indicative.

This is actually way more aggressive than I am used to seeing Superhans. Don't know what this means.

Quick Transcendence is really serious about wanting Grey dead. That's very suspicious.

Point 3 isn't to do with Grey, point 1 is obviously jokey and RVS.

Is the only reason you are voting QT because of their read on Grey? Do you townreading Grey then?

[Superhans]

Pleased that Veebs and Momo have been replaced as they were definitely lynch bait, however, I think Momo's behaviour in particular was very indicative of scum. ChaosOmega is a more experienced player, so I'm sure there will be more towny content, but I'll be wary to town clear the slot anytime soon.

Veebs I null read, so willing to treat ChillTea as a clean slate.

Please welcome chilledtea, replacing Veebs!

Hi ct! Hopefully we win a game together this time! That damn cow...

Please welcome ChaosOmega, who replaces momo!

Hi!

Votecount

1.2

ChaosOmega (4) : Superhans, -Grey-, Riley Cake, Spade_Ace
-Grey- (3) : Lil Uzi Vert, Frederick E Campbell, mattblackguy
Spade_Ace (1) : Quick Transcendence
Lil Uzi Vert (1) : PimHel
Not Voting(4): lucca261, chilledtea, BTD6_maker, ChaosOmega

With 13 alive it takes 7 to lynch.
Day ends Sat March 18 2200 MST (UTC-7) (expired on 2017-03-18 22:00:00)

okay the Chaos/momo lynch screams to me two obvtown voting a mislynch and then two scummy people (sorry riley) voting on top of that. I don't like it

The grey lynch is meh. Don't feel great about it but wouldn't openly oppose it if it was the deadline lynch.

Spade_Ace's a fantastic vote and I fail to see why this has so much resistance.

PimHel needs to advance, as well as the 4 people not voting.

I WOULDVE WON THE GAME. HOW COME I GOT KICKED? ME OR MOMO DIDNT DO ANYTHING. IM DONE WITH THIS GAME!!!!!

lol

~T

Decent point about how quickly the Momo wagon built, and the types of players who jumped on it, but this is multiball, so a scum wagon doesn't indicate the player being wagonned isn't also scum (if that makes sense).
For now i'm
UNVOTE:

[Superhans]

I WOULDVE WON THE GAME. HOW COME I GOT KICKED? ME OR MOMO DIDNT DO ANYTHING. IM DONE WITH THIS GAME!!!!!

very obnoxious play style. idk why Momo was kicked, but if he was town, he would definitely have been a scum team's wet dream.

[Superhans]

VOTE: SpadeAce

L2

[Superhans]

you got any meat lil uzi?

[Superhans]

VOTE: SpadeAce

L2

Bad vote Hans.

Why do you deserve to live, Spady? What are you actually doing to deserve not being lynched today?

[Superhans]

you got any meat lil uzi?

Huh?

Meaty content. most of your iso (or at least recently) has been very

[Superhans]

would you disagree?

[Superhans]

well duh

lots of stuff you could be talking about, and instead you pop up to say hi or something.

[Superhans]

Fredrick:
Grey has already alluded to this, but I'd like an answer to this, so I'm gonna lay it out a little more plainly. Why did you vote Grey in 191? It seems to be a quick shift in thought from 178/179, mind explaining your thought progression here?

Superhans:
Why is SpadeAce your top scumread when your only interaction with him this game before your vote was in 248 where you agreed with him? Is the read entirely from Quick Transcendence?

Spade_Ace:
I was going to question you here on why you weren't voting QT or directly interacting with them, but then you did both of those things before I finished this post.

mattblackguy:
You've been posting elsewhere since your last post here, it seems really sketchy that your only post of substance was a reasonless vote on the leading wagon at the time. Interested to see your reasons for voting Grey and more of your input.

BTD6_maker/PimHel:
Same as matt, also posting elsewhere, and your only posts are fluff. Come out and play.

Voted Spade because i thought his iso was just filler.

[Superhans]

@ChaosOmega was inspired by QT yes, but im not sheeping blindly.

[Superhans]

i was trying to play town, not look town

I voted Spade cos i agree it is a nice place for my vote to be.#

pedit im really not

[Superhans]

VOTE: Omega

[Superhans]

my vote on spade wasn't because i specifically scum read him. i just didn't like his content.

[Superhans]

because of Momo being obvious scum.

[Superhans]

Hans slinking off momo is an obvious distancing vote turned wagon derail.

I want Chaos dead because nothing about the replacement changed the fact that slot is scum.

and this thing
idk what you mean by 'obvious distancing vote turned wagon derail', but you're wrong.

[Superhans]

well i am getting a lot of hate from Grey for jumping off of the Momo wagon, so i'm jumping back again,.

[Superhans]

cos he thinks im scum.

[Superhans]

also because i am not confident in Spade being scum.

[Superhans]

Never said Spade was obvious scum...

[Superhans]

Cos I had second thoughts on Spade.

@LUV why are you voting me?

[Superhans]

@Lucca why am i scumHans?

[Superhans]

I didn't want to vote a new player

[Superhans]

Grey said me unvoting Mono was to derail the wagon.

Wanted to show that that was bullshit

[Superhans]

I don't but he is trying to get me lynched.

[Superhans]

Grey said me unvoting Mono was to derail the wagon.

Wanted to show that that was bullshit

I still don't understand why you're appealing to him so much after you said you aren't town reading him anymore in 85.

Not hard scum reading him.

[Superhans]

Wrong quote

[Superhans]

K I'm going to stop talking. Seems everything I say is getting me more and more.scum read.

Will be back in the morning.

@Lucca you're wrong on this one. You may know.my scum game but I can't see how you'd know.my town game.

[Superhans]

Hmm? What doesn't make sense?

[Superhans]

This is multiball. Also.im not trying to sheep grey.

[Superhans]

Open 679: Jungle Oligarchy

Day 1

Player List

Quick Transcendence (hydra of LicketyQuickety and Transcend)
BTD6_maker
PimHel
ChaosOmega

momo

Lil Uzi Vert
lucca261
Superhans
Fredrick E Campbell
mattblackguy
Spade_Ace
Riley Cake
chilledtea

Veebs

-Grey-

Spoiler: Alive players

Quick Transcendence
BTD6_maker
PimHel
ChaosOmega
Lil Uzi Vert
lucca261
Superhans
Fredrick E Campbell
mattblackguy
Spade_Ace
Riley Cake
chilledtea
-Grey-

Spoiler: Dead players

Setup

3 Mafia Goons
2 Werewolves
8 Townies

Mechanics can be found on the wiki page.

Sample role PMs

Mafia Goon

Welcome, [Player Name]. You are a Mafia Goon, along with your partners, [Player Name] and [Player Name].
Abilities:
Factional communication: Anytime you may talk with your partners here [QuickTopic link].
Factional Targetting: During the day, you must submit a list of 3 players, which can change throughout the day. At the start of night, the list is made public in-thread; if the werewolves choose to nightkill, the target must be one from the list.
Win condition: You win when at least half of the living players are mafia, or when nothing can prevent this from happening.

Werewolf

Welcome, [Player Name]. You are a Werewolf, along with your partner, [Player Name].
Abilities:
Factional communication: During the night phase you may talk with your partner here [QuickTopic link].
Factional kill: Each night phase, you or your partner may perform the group nightkill. However, the target must be one from the list posted in-thread.
Win condition: You win when at least half of the living players are werewolves and at least one pro-town role remains, or if you obtain full majority, or when nothing can prevent this from happening.

Vanilla Townie

Welcome, [Player Name], you are a Vanilla Townie.
Abilities:
Your weapon is your vote, you have no night actions.
Win condition:
You win when all threats to the town have been eliminated and there is at least one town player alive.

No I'm not

[Superhans]

Did not mean to quote that

[Superhans]

I'm scum leaning Grey.

[Superhans]

Meant leaning as in not hard scum read. More gut because of your attack on me.

@LUV I don't see why im obligated to vote Grey.

[Superhans]

The problem with Hans is that his facetious behavior isn't justified. I thought he was null reading Grey until the appealing and concern came into the picture which gave me the impression he's been scum reading him. He quickly confirmed that so I don't understand why he isn't voting for him right now. If you're scum reading someone who is trying to lynch you, why wouldn't you vote for them instead of voting for someone because of what their predecessor did?

Don't try and act.like this was ever an obligation.

[Superhans]

I generally try to avoid OMGUS attacks because I think it is petty. Think Grey may be scum because of his attack on me, but we both agree on Omega... So idk

[Superhans]

VOTE: Omega

NEVER MIND!!!!!!!!!!!!

VOTE: SUPERHANS

CHANGING YA VOTE COS GREY SAID YA WERE SCUMMY FOR SLINKING OFF IS SUPER DUPER MEGA SCUMMY!!!!!! IT MEANS YA DON'T CARE WHO'S SCUM AND JUST WANTA LOOK GOOD!!!!!!

Grey said I deliberately distanced myself from Omega, so I wanted to prove he was wrong.

[Superhans]

I am doing an ISO read of Hans. Currently he appears to be mildly scummy to me but I shall later examine in detail to get a more accurate read.

Following the stream.

What in my ISO is scummy?

[Superhans]

Hans slinking off momo is an obvious distancing vote turned wagon derail.

do ya really think so? I THINK HANS COULD JUST BE TOWNIE BUT WRONGSIES!!!!!

K Riley cake defending me initially (before my flip flop) is indicative of town. Can't see scum going out of there way to stop a wagon.

[Superhans]

Scum leaning Lucca.

He's tunneling me (calls me scum in his first post early RVS and hasn't shifted since. He says that because of his understanding of my meta this is a "scum" Superhans.
@Lucca if you want to play this card you need to actually explain it.

Y is Lucca town reading BTD?
Where does this come from?

[Superhans]

Open 679: Jungle Oligarchy

Day 1

Player List

Quick Transcendence (hydra of LicketyQuickety and Transcend)
BTD6_maker
PimHel
ChaosOmega

momo

Lil Uzi Vert
lucca261
Superhans
Fredrick E Campbell
mattblackguy
Spade_Ace
Riley Cake
chilledtea

Veebs

-Grey-

Spoiler: Alive players

Quick Transcendence
BTD6_maker
PimHel
ChaosOmega
Lil Uzi Vert
lucca261
Superhans
Fredrick E Campbell
mattblackguy
Spade_Ace
Riley Cake
chilledtea
-Grey-

Spoiler: Dead players

Setup

3 Mafia Goons
2 Werewolves
8 Townies

Mechanics can be found on the wiki page.

Sample role PMs

Mafia Goon

Welcome, [Player Name]. You are a Mafia Goon, along with your partners, [Player Name] and [Player Name].
Abilities:
Factional communication: Anytime you may talk with your partners here [QuickTopic link].
Factional Targetting: During the day, you must submit a list of 3 players, which can change throughout the day. At the start of night, the list is made public in-thread; if the werewolves choose to nightkill, the target must be one from the list.
Win condition: You win when at least half of the living players are mafia, or when nothing can prevent this from happening.

Werewolf

Welcome, [Player Name]. You are a Werewolf, along with your partner, [Player Name].
Abilities:
Factional communication: During the night phase you may talk with your partner here [QuickTopic link].
Factional kill: Each night phase, you or your partner may perform the group nightkill. However, the target must be one from the list posted in-thread.
Win condition: You win when at least half of the living players are werewolves and at least one pro-town role remains, or if you obtain full majority, or when nothing can prevent this from happening.

Vanilla Townie

Welcome, [Player Name], you are a Vanilla Townie.
Abilities:
Your weapon is your vote, you have no night actions.
Win condition:
You win when all threats to the town have been eliminated and there is at least one town player alive.

I didn't consciously vote Omega because I felt scared of Grey. I just felt pissed off he was accusing me of derailing Omega.

[Superhans]

Also coincided with Spade being far less attractive as a wagon.

[Superhans]

Yup but this is multiball. Not going to clear Omega just because you're voting him

[Superhans]

@LUV have taken into account that wolves and Italians work together in this setup.

[Superhans]

Multi-ball, single-ball, it doesn't matter. At the end of the day, you vote for your strongest scum read. We believe you aren't doing that. Why was Mo scum for voting Riley? Why couldn't he be frustrated town?

You think that Mo's performance was remotely town? Voting Riley was scum pushing on flavour alone because at the end of the day is incapable.of genuine hunting.

[Superhans]

Also multiball does matter, because you seem to think I can't vote with a player I scum read.

[Superhans]

Momo made a push on Riley for a bogus reason, and he knew his reason was bogus:

Okay so after reading only 6 pages the only thing I can honestly say is that Riley is annoying. Feel like she is trying to draw attention to herself and acting this strange, people will think that she is too confident for scum. Hiding in plain sight so to speak.

My vote will most definitely at some point since it is page 6 but still feeling somewhat confident with what I have now. Also, how isn't Veebs banned. He is a troll who types in random game thread.

Anyway:

VOTE: Riley Cakes

okay riley I will get of you for now, but I am pretty sure posting in all caps might be a rule violation so please don't'

UNVOTE:

Obvs not genuine.

[Superhans]

hope that is enough for you Lucca.

[Superhans]

363, @quick, his 163 is such a risky entrance to do as scum. he blatantly disregards the entire thread and posts a NAI statement. I don't see scum being so careless. Granted, I don't have much experience with scum!BTD, so that's why he's probably town.

Disagree with this btw.

See it more as just callous scum. Do not like BTD so far.

[Superhans]

382, @hans, not tunneling you. stating this is a blatant misrep of my play, but whatevs. explained on my other catchup why I'm townreading BTD. are you only asking that because someone else asked it too or are you really concerned about it?

Not a misrepresentation at all.
You have a monopoly of information over other players. Merely stating that meta provides you with reasoning to suspect me being scum means you can scum read me without the need of proof.

I don't think you intended to do this, or if you did intend to, you've rectified this by providing justification:

on my game with hans, I'd say his defenses were close to what they are now. in that game he had weirdly more confidence to go after players who were widely townread such as Magna or Doomfeathers. thing he's not doing here with Grey.

I dont think its very good meta analysis, but its out there for other players to see if they agree.

viewtopic.php?p=8722471&user_select%5B%5D=29052#p8722471

[Superhans]

@Lucca what would you describe as

your

scum meta during the nightless game we played together?

[Superhans]

Town read so far excluding Fred and PimHel.
I flip flopped completely on QT and Spade.
Null read on QT and Chilled Tea.
Town lean on Spade (feel free to grate and bait me for this one).

{LUV, Matt, Riley}
{Spade}
{Chilled Tea, QT}
{BTD6, Lucca, Grey}
{Omega}

[Superhans]

Momo made a push on Riley for a bogus reason, and he knew his reason was bogus:

Okay so after reading only 6 pages the only thing I can honestly say is that Riley is annoying. Feel like she is trying to draw attention to herself and acting this strange, people will think that she is too confident for scum. Hiding in plain sight so to speak.

My vote will most definitely at some point since it is page 6 but still feeling somewhat confident with what I have now. Also, how isn't Veebs banned. He is a troll who types in random game thread.

Anyway:

VOTE: Riley Cakes

okay riley I will get of you for now, but I am pretty sure posting in all caps might be a rule violation so please don't'

UNVOTE:

Obvs not genuine.

Don't want to choke the game with my content (i've been accused of doing so in the past) but has anyone ever played against a noon town who pushes on essentially little more than flavour?

[Superhans]

You flip flopped on me being town which I think was genuine. Feel that this is inherently AI. Why would scum bother to town read the largest wagon?

[Superhans]

HANSY!!!! WHY AM I YA IN YA TOP TIER?!!! i've been super duper mega off this game!!!! I haven't been able to do anything much...

How do you feel "off"?

[Superhans]

Grey flip flopped on me being town (exceedingly briefly) but I'm not convinced like I am with you + LUV.

[Superhans]

Lot of resistance for Hans, making me feel good about a scum flip.

Implying you ever had the intentention to prevent my lynch.

Grey I'll give you a cookie if you can give me a reason why a wagon could face resistance from town.

[Superhans]

Town does not move their vote to appease a fucking scumread.

M I A R E P P Y
A F
You were implying I wasn't serious about Omega.
Not trying to appease you. There is a difference.

Hans slinking off momo is an obvious distancing vote turned wagon derail.

I want Chaos dead because nothing about the replacement changed the fact that slot is scum.

@Grey how do you read Omega? Town right? Since I'm so obviously scum.

[Superhans]

He thinks I'm scum... why does he care about my hate?

I don't care about your hate, i care about what everyone else thinks of me. Not you. i don't give a shit about you.

Hans slinking off momo is an obvious distancing vote turned wagon derail.

I have explained this as clearly as i can multiple times. Why don't you get it?

[Superhans]

trying ta manipulate grey's vote on omega was reaaallly scummy!!!!!!

elaborate please. i don't get what you mean.

[Superhans]

If this was true, why vote WITH me instead of VOTE ME??

okay this is referring to my read a while back in the game.

Earlier in the game, when I flipped my vote onto Omega, I did not scum read you as hard as I do now.

I scum read you because you were trying to get other players to vote on me from the beginning.
As early as #50 you have been calling for my lynch. This caused me to gut scum read you.

Zat you, LQ?

Yup.

Thoughts?

I'm down if you want to go all "enemy of my enemy" on Hans.

I scum read you because you were vigilantely trying to get you lynched for (seemingly to me at least, please disprove if you think otherwise)

baseless

reasoning. I didn't think that your push on me was necessarily scum motivated because my behaviour often pings players pretty hard. The fact your reasoning was baseless also didn't ping me that hard early game as I thought you would quit.

I've been called scum before as town by town in previous games, so i didn't want to OMGUS vote you.

[Superhans]

i feel like i'm repeating myself quite a lot.

Do you bother to read my posts? fairly sure i can answer all your questiosn this page from my ISO.

[Superhans]

How does he have second thoughts on someone HE WASN'T SCUMREADING IN THE FIRST PLACE?

i did scum read Spade, kinda. Persuaded after QT suggested so.
following my vote on Spade two things happened:

1) He made two relatively towny posts (my criticism of him was his content, his posts after my vote were good content wise.)
2) You accused me of trying to derail Momo/Omega.

Everytime I try and explain myself you just spam rhetoric along the lines of: "Can't wait until you're lynched/ lynch this now etc" or grating me for my flip flop which I feel is adequately explained in my ISO.

Spamming rhetoric demanding my lynch i can see coming from a town player, albeit a particularily unpleasant town player who isn't very open minded.
Continually painting me out to be scum for somehting that I have repeatedly explained myself for, and not acknowledging any aspects of my explanation, can only come from scum!Grey.

[Superhans]

my vote on spade wasn't because i specifically scum read him.

i just didn't like his content.

i did scum read Spade, kinda.

you're not trying to solve the game, you're just trying to portray me as something i'm not.

it isn't even an inconsistency, and any player who actually reads the posts in context can see that.



SPECIFICALLY.

[Superhans]

you gonna respond to 477?

Or just ignore it?

[Superhans]

because iv played as scum in the game with Lucca by spamming scum accusations like the ones you're using on me.

i know it can be a scum tactic.

Can you either provide an example of you playing like this as town, or at the very least provide your previous game you played as as town.

[Superhans]

You haven't said anything worthy of a response since I voted you.

If I decide to, I will. Bit I'm not interested in convincing scum that they're scum. You already know you are.

Killing discussion.

Desperado did this as town, but only because he was incredibly frustrated with me. you don't have nearly a good enough reason to end our engagement.

VOTE: Grey

[Superhans]

If you were town, you'd just look the shit up without the theatrics of asking for links.

if you were town you'd give them to me.

[Superhans]

prick

[Superhans]

shit take back the last post. sorry

[Superhans]

If you were town, you'd just look the shit up without the theatrics of asking for links.

if you were town you'd give them to me.

WRONG.

I never care to Scum.

dude i don't care this is exhausting.

i'll get them myself.

also i apologise for calling you a prick, you're just playing to your wincon.

[Superhans]

If you were town, you'd just look the shit up without the theatrics of asking for links.

if you were town you'd give them to me.

WRONG.

I never cater to Scum.

game is going to be really fucking tedious if you stop talking with me.

i addmit asking you for the links was theatrical, and i get that you don't want to engage with me that way, but don't stop talking with me.

[Superhans]

the whole "i don't cater with scum" is ridiculous.

[Superhans]

and if you did spew rhetoric in your town games i dont get why you wouldn't want to provide it yourself... i get it is a respect thing and i disrespected you.
i disrespected you by calling you a prick. you're not a irl. If you are town, then in this game you're a prick.

[Superhans]

VOTE : ChaosOmega

I'm good with their lynch too, but prefer obvious scum over suspected scum.

dude you keep on doing this whole 'obvious scum' thing. not obvious to anyone else but you.

[Superhans]

and its also really exhausting playing against a player who doesn't even bothe rto read anything i write.

True. True.

VOTE: Hans

Sorry for being a fickle bitch, got cold feet over the speed and his general lost puppy dog demeanor.

What specifically makes my demeanor one of a "lost puppy dog". What post made me lose this demeanor.

pedit: i'm allegic to memes.

[Superhans]

VOTE : ChaosOmega

+1 this. kinda too late to turn back from voting Grey (why i have left it so late). think this is going to be a Jihad ting.

[Superhans]

give me a fucking minute

[Superhans]

i can't instantly meta dive, i haven't even started with all this posting.

[Superhans]

cos im intimidated by you.

k?

also my read on you hasn't been homogenous since the games inception (unlike your obsession with lynching me).

[Superhans]

i think the previous few pages + my meta dive results should be enough tho.

[Superhans]

if i flip today, policy lynch Grey.

[Superhans]

lol how can you fake results of a meta dive? Especially for something so simple.

[Superhans]

my vote on spade wasn't because i specifically scum read him.

i just didn't like his content.

i did scum read Spade, kinda.

you're not trying to solve the game, you're just trying to portray me as something i'm not.

it isn't even an inconsistency, and any player who actually reads the posts in context can see that.



SPECIFICALLY.

i think the previous few pages + my meta dive results should be enough tho.

Proof that he's already decided on what he plans to say his results of his supposed meta dive are.

F A B R I C A T I O N
S T A T I O N

[Superhans]

lol how can you fake results of a meta dive? Especially for something so simple.

Very fucking easy to claim what the fuck you want about someone's meta.

well i wouldnt have to search around your bloody town games if you had just provided me your last town game and given me the meta analysis. still haven't done it btw.
finding your previous town game is tricky, and its going to be exceptionally tedious going through your entire ISO. fairly sure you will not be slinging rhetoric tho.

obviously if you are then yes, i will absolutley try and fake the meta /sarc

[Superhans]

I'll be roasting marshmallows, camped out on this scum wagon if town ever decides to pull their head out of their ass and play to their wincon.

[Superhans]

viewtopic.php?p=8873784&user_select%5B% ... 7#p8873784

k tbf you do spam scumcusations in this game so its NAI.

[Superhans]

@Grey whats your read on Lucca?

[Superhans]

and on LUV and RileyCakes.

[Superhans]

hi QT

like your scum push on Frederick and on Omega.

What about your read on Spades? Why from scum to null?

[Superhans]

There's probably a 0% chance I'll get Grey out of his tunnel though.

this is true because at this point Grey can't back down. (lol he'll probably say this is vice versa and its true).

Jihad innit. He scum pushed me so far that even if he were town (100% isn't btw) he can't un-scum read me.

[Superhans]

And you really think Scum is more likely to openly admit that they were voting for a non-scum read?

i never said this!!! putting something in red doesn't make what i said scummy, its classic misrepresnation.
i called grey out for it and he said he didn't negotiate with terrorist or something idk.

[Superhans]

"my vote on spade wasn't because i specifically scum read him. i just didn't like his content."

last time:
this does NOT say that I town read Spades, at no point before voting him/during voting him was I town reading him. Thanks Grey for smearing shit.

[Superhans]

you utter muppet. wait 2 secs....

my vote on spade wasn't because i specifically scum read him.

i just didn't like his content.

i did scum read Spade, kinda.

[Superhans]

what is this, other than attempt to fabricate an inconsistency with my scum read?

[Superhans]

@Grey

and actually reply.

think i deserve a non emoticon response.

[Superhans]

If you don't scumread Spade-Ace but do not like their content, that does not merit a vote.

omfg this is like the 100th

at no point in my iso have i said i town read spade ace before/during voting for him.
Poor content is usually a pretty indication someone is scum. That is how i felt with Spade when i voted.

[Superhans]

What I get from him this game: He doesn't care about what people think about him, and I see a fairly genuine thought process. Valiant efforts to game solve. Etc.

Bullshit!

HE CHANGED HIS VOTE BACK ONTO A WAGON HE LEFT BECAUSE OF HOW IT MADE HIM LOOK.

Because you suggested i wasn't sincere with voting Momo. you accused me of trying to derail his wagon.

Feel like i've made this point before but you just choose not to listen or even bother responding or acknowledging it.

[Superhans]

k im going to bed.

not going to be here to defend myself, but fortunately i don't need to be, because all of Greys attacks on me will have been made already, and my responses are in my ISO.

Good night.

[Superhans]

He said words after his actions damned him.

after you accused me of trying to derail a wagon DIFFERENCE

[Superhans]

For all the posturing Hans did about meta diving me, that all quietly went away because he knew it would just undermine his excuse to scumread me if he dared to try to justify it with my history.

This scumfuck needs to die today.

Let me get this straight.... Because I truthlly reported your meta I'm scum? Riiight.
Also it was obviously NAI, how does that 'underminr my excuse'? (Rhetorical don't reply)

[Superhans]

@Lucca i've seen your questions to me, I'm on phone rn so I'll try and respond 2nite on my PC.

[Superhans]

@Grey whats your read on Lucca?

Answer this + reads on Riley and LUV

[Superhans]

My question is first.

[Superhans]

I don't give a damn what you want, scum.

If you want anything from me, you will answer me.

if you want me to talk to you, don't blank my questions.

[Superhans]

@Grey whats your read on Lucca?

Answer this + reads on Riley and LUV

[Superhans]

There is just literally no town perspective I can picture that would explain Hans being scared of me.

None.

The answer is literally in my ISO. You choose not to listen.

[Superhans]

You are scum Grey..Don't try and make out that I ever said I feel differently.

Btw.i think your theory on Daychat is beautifully articulated and i can't identify even the slightest flaw.

Pedit: misreppy

[Superhans]

Also.it is true isn't it. I can't unvote you. Maybe that's what you wanted all along.

[Superhans]

VOTE: Omega

[Superhans]

Jk
VOTE: Grey

[Superhans]

Grey you offer literally no reasoning why I am being coached.
Lucca will almost certainly have an opinion on your coaching theory. If I was being coached it should be easy alto demonstrate how.

So far you haven't provided any proof.

Question I will ask is: if I am mafia who are my mafia partner?

[Superhans]

Oh and I want a response to my question.

[Superhans]

@Grey whats your read on Lucca?

Answer this + reads on Riley and LUV

This one too

[Superhans]

^Meangingful discussion that's not at all going to fill the thread up with waffle.

You are obviously very pleased with your coaching theory, such confidence placed on such a shitty read.

Slinging shit until something sticks... Huh nothings sticking

[Superhans]

Also my question on reads is exceedingly important to me. Especially my question on Lucca.

I can't make you answer but would hugely appreciate anything.

[Superhans]

@Grey what is Lucca to you?

You haven't made a single post on him this entire game.

[Superhans]

You haven't mentioned his name once this entire game either.

[Superhans]

Open 679: Jungle Oligarchy

Day 1

Player List

Quick Transcendence (hydra of LicketyQuickety and Transcend)
BTD6_maker
PimHel *
ChaosOmega

momo

Lil Uzi Vert
lucca261
Superhans
Fredrick E Campbell
mattblackguy
Spade_Ace
Riley Cake
chilledtea

Veebs

-Grey-

Spoiler: Alive players

Quick Transcendence
BTD6_maker
PimHel
ChaosOmega
Lil Uzi Vert
lucca261
Superhans
Fredrick E Campbell
mattblackguy
Spade_Ace
Riley Cake
chilledtea
-Grey-

Spoiler: Dead players

Setup

3 Mafia Goons
2 Werewolves
8 Townies

Mechanics can be found on the wiki page.

Sample role PMs

Mafia Goon

Welcome, [Player Name]. You are a Mafia Goon, along with your partners, [Player Name] and [Player Name].
Abilities:
Factional communication: Anytime you may talk with your partners here [QuickTopic link].
Factional Targetting: During the day, you must submit a list of 3 players, which can change throughout the day. At the start of night, the list is made public in-thread; if the werewolves choose to nightkill, the target must be one from the list.
Win condition: You win when at least half of the living players are mafia, or when nothing can prevent this from happening.

Werewolf

Welcome, [Player Name]. You are a Werewolf, along with your partner, [Player Name].
Abilities:
Factional communication: During the night phase you may talk with your partner here [QuickTopic link].
Factional kill: Each night phase, you or your partner may perform the group nightkill. However, the target must be one from the list posted in-thread.
Win condition: You win when at least half of the living players are werewolves and at least one pro-town role remains, or if you obtain full majority, or when nothing can prevent this from happening.

Vanilla Townie

Welcome, [Player Name], you are a Vanilla Townie.
Abilities:
Your weapon is your vote, you have no night actions.
Win condition:
You win when all threats to the town have been eliminated and there is at least one town player alive.

Okay not very surprising response

The reason I asked was because in 669 Lucca himself coached me as scum. My game changed notably and he would easily be able to tell. My only fear is that he is scum partnered to you and could screw me over. Hopefully this isn't the case.

[Superhans]

@Grey your coaching g theory is vague AF.
Firstly which player is coaching me?
Secondly HOW did they coach me?

The accusation of "Coaching" isn't some magic word that you can throw without elaborating.

[Superhans]

I'd recommend troll responding since town don't seem to care how baseless your attacks are

Pedit
Lol

[Superhans]

Luv where you at?

[Superhans]

I'm fine with being lynched if they won't

LAMIST and also not remotely true.

I want Grey to.eat rope too, but I'm not going to completely ignore the other players with a death tunnel. There are.other players I'd be happy to see dead too at the end of the day.

[Superhans]

Although kinda difficult when so few players are posting.

[Superhans]

Is what it is at this point. Hans vs. Grey has become too big to tune out and now has to be resolved today as a result.

lil Uzi you're on my wagon but haven't engaged with me at all... and now you say its inevitable that either Grey or I get lynched. Surely you want me to get lynched, otherwise why are you on my wagon?

[Superhans]

Is what it is at this point. Hans vs. Grey has become too big to tune out and now has to be resolved today as a result.

yh really don't like this. By proposing inevitability you're divorcing yourself from responsibility of having to properly justify your vote on me/grey (feeling its me you want to lynch tho).

You need to play more transparently, and publish your thoughts. From your ISO it is difficult to know what you;re thinking.

pedit: you haven't engaged with me.

[Superhans]

not recently at least.

[Superhans]

Do you think scum would tunnel you THIS HARD?

I don't see why not. you town read him for it, and it means he conveniently can steer the flow of the game from any other players and not bother with any other reads. Because i'm 'obvious scum' he has managed to get away with completely avoiding my question asking for his read on Lucca (seriously how the fuck is eveyone letting him get away with this?)

Potentially he does genuinely scum read me as another faction, more likely he knows im town but thinks his case is convincing enougth that no one will punish him if i flip town.

[Superhans]

im not getting lynched if Grey is gonna get away with it unpunished. sorry not gonna happen.

[Superhans]

I'm fine with being lynched if they won't

LAMIST and also not remotely true.

I want Grey to.eat rope too, but I'm not going to completely ignore the other players with a death tunnel. There are.other players I'd be happy to see dead too at the end of the day.

"I'm fine with being lynched"
lying through his teeth.
I'm not. i know Grey is gonna just death tunnel someone else.

i'd die today IF town prommise to policy lynch Grey tomorrow.

[Superhans]

i haven't been tunneling Grey all game. Initially thought he was town, lol. I usually avoid OMGUS reactions because i get scum read by town as much as by scum.
I've been death tunnelled to a far lesser extent by Desperado in 663, Stack the Deck, who turned out to be town.

However, some of the strategies Grey has used to attack me are devious and manipulative, far beyond any town attack on me.

[Superhans]

oh and i can see scum motivations behind his tunnel on me, which wasn't the case in 663.

[Superhans]

sad thing is i think grey is gonna power lynch me. and i think hes going to get away with it.

[Superhans]

happiest to lynch Omega out of those three. Then Lucca. Least happy to lynch Riley, but would like to hear your case on her.

[Superhans]

VOTE: Omega

k i think i need to interact with Lucca a bit more before im confident in voting him.

[Superhans]

And my point is I have to get loud and obnoxious to get anything done.

ever been wrong with one of your death tunnels before?

[Superhans]

If i get lynched, please please please don't let Grey make it to LyLo.

[Superhans]

also i want any form of lynching process to slow down. We have like a week left and half the players have lurked through this completely.
PimHel has made two posts. Don't waste D1. Don't act like there is an y inevitibility because it'll allow player to get away with doing nothing.

[Superhans]

don't like how LUV's vote on my wagon, considering he has also coasted through the last 10 pages, contributing imho no opnion whatsoever.

[Superhans]

oh and Omega. Would be fucking hilarious if Grey and Omega were a team together X)

[Superhans]

in that game he had weirdly more confidence to go after players who were widely townread such as Magna or Doomfeathers. thing he's not doing here with Grey.

You were saying?

Ugh

Thats such a weak AF point, not benefitting the game at all. I have deliberately restrained from criticising every tiny thing you do because it's actually hurting town. I'm not petty, and i thought you so decided not to be too.

@QT: I've taken that all into account but the game has just become so dominated by their back and forth. I literally can't focus on anything else right now and I don't want to replace out.

I'll kick back for a couple days and focus on out games.

Not unvoting scum until it's dead though.

If i lash back I'm going to be responsible for God knows how many more pages of relentless bickering.

You can keep on making posts like the one above i honestly don't care, just don't scum read me for not responding.

[Superhans]

Are you referring to 732?

[Superhans]

I don't care about his perception on me. I want him to shut up because our arguments are killing towns ability to hunt.

[Superhans]

Also i don't see how 732 is trying g to change Grey's perspective?

[Superhans]

Referring to town. Don't want town being swayed by all of Grey's petty attacks that im choosing not to retaliate on Grey.

[Superhans]

I don't care about his perception on me. I want him to shut up because our arguments are killing towns ability to hunt.

Also town is killing towns ability to hunt, considering several players (presumably some town) are hard lurking.

[Superhans]

Sorry Lucca :/ will sort out all questions tomorrow.

Want you to elaborate on your town read of LUV. What do you think of his quality of content? Idk y only i mind his fluff.

You ever played with LUV before?

[Superhans]

I scum read you because you were trying to get other players to vote on me from the beginning.
As early as #50 you have been calling for my lynch. This caused me to gut scum read you.

I'M NOT VOTING ANYONE BUT HANS TODAY!!! sorry everybody!!! Just cos his tone is good doesn't mean he's town!!! I haven't heard any reason why he's townsies!!!! AND I THINK IF HE WAS TOWN LOTSA SCUM WOULD JOIN IT TO GOBBLE UP A TOWNIE WITHOUT LOOKING BAD!!! but nobody has!!!!

If you could kill two players instantly rn, and you use your first shot on me, who would your second shot be on?

[Superhans]

@Lucca

440: @hans, I see what you're trying to do, but I'll answer anyway:

that Spade readlist just feels fake to me. I mean, he has only one scumread, and that is on a lurker. gut.

Posted lot of catchups, used them to don't engage on real time with other players, tunneled a player to death and used that to don't throw a lot of other reads.
also, a lot of IIoA, as RC said.

now a question for you: do you see similarities on that game and this one?

First question I think means: do you see any similarities between your play here and scum game in 669? I don't actually understand your response though. Really confused with what you have written (im illiterate af, please explain this like i'm seven years old.

If that is the question, then the answer is:
No. Not really.

Equally I see you as the type of player who would go out of their way to change their scum game so not to get detected so I'm not too sure.
Some things I am aware of:

1) you're exceedingly good at fabrication. You were quickly town read in 669 for this. I remember I complimented you in the mafia day chat saying that your fabricated content was more convincing than my genuine town content. You do make mistakes, and if you're scum, it'll show through mistakes.
2) Through most of the game you remained very calm. You taught me not to freak out when I was getting scum attacked, and it worked pretty damn well (very lucky I wasn't lynched D2, thanks).

In 669, I was very very obviously scum. You and Fitz both said so during the day chat. My survival depended entirely on me being able to tunnel weak players such as Rev, and relying on lynchbait, Friendly Computer, Sesq and also getting support from Doomfeathers who fell for some very very clumsy acting. I was town read by Cowbells because she didn't believe a scum player would play as badly as I did which is funny/tragic (imho).
You, on the otherhand, fitted into a category of the players who most of town could safely assume were town. e.g. you were never a wagon (correct me if i'm wrong). Players who remain level headed and keep their cards close to their chest. I think a wagon on you this game would be very very healthy for town, but I think you would need an exceedingly large amount of pressure to change how you play.

Second Question:

436: @hans, I don't see how you can say that he knew his reason was bogus. is this the only reason?

The word 'only' makes it seem like it is one isolated incidence, or like i am pinning my read on something small.
Momo's case was bogus, and it isn't the fact that it was bogus that makes him scum.

Town have bogus cases from time to time. I've made more than my fair share of bogus cases, even been responsible for mislynching town because of it. What

does

matter is that he KNEW it was bogus. Insincerity oozes out of his ISO.

The only thing that is putting me off lynching Omega, is that it is too easy. I am tempted to vote for another player (will not divulge who at this point). Part of the purpose of the vote is that it can pressure players into revealing more honestly reflective content, and considering Omega isn't actually here, and that my reasoning for voting on him is something that is already out there and obvious, it seems like a waste. Of course Omega will be my go-to at the end of the day (or Grey if town actually wakes up) but I don't think my vote will be on him continously for the next 7 days.

My question to you, Lucca, if you think my scum case on Momo is too small, is this:
Have you EVER played with a noob town who, after 12 pages of content can only vote on flavour?
Noobs may be wrong at higher rates than pros, but they certainly would have an opinion, by then.

[Superhans]

@Lucca,
i'm out of the loop, but chilled teas 772 implies that you're townreading Omega??

I can forgive nulling Omega, but what has he done to be town read?

[Superhans]

@MOD
Can we have 24 hours so that Hiraki can catch up?

Pimel made literally 2 posts

[Superhans]

Aside from Riley Cake (and potentially LUV idk), my wagon is now almost completely saturated with scumzos.

congrats

[Superhans]

idk about LUV. I got the feeling he was trying to figure me out at some point earlier today, but I don't like how hes not hunting anyone else, seems to be coasting, waiting for my inevitable lynch, which is make me very uneasy.

@LUV
Who do you think is my partner

who do you think could be in the other scum team?

[Superhans]

fuck

[Superhans]

<3 you too Lucca.
if you hadn't hammered i would have self hammered for sure.

want to hydra together at some point?

[Superhans]

oh i may be scum but i think LUV is definitely mafia.

[Superhans]

no wifom brain fuckeroo im being serious

[Superhans]

i didnt read the game mechanics, assumed there were x2 wolves x2 mafia (that would only make sense right)

cant believe there were x3 mafia. obviously not town, what moron town wouldnt know how many scum there were?

im a fool.


@Grey want you to know that you catching me was to do with me being retarded, not you being a pro player.

[Superhans]

the fear thing was genuine, not sure why you insisted that was so scummy.

[Superhans]

so many of your arguments sucked really bad. i was genuinely pissed off you insisted iwas getting coached.